The Untouchables

[Limey]

gleach posed this question at the game the other night and, partly because of the recent chat about how untouchable PENCE!!! is, I thought it bring that topic in here.

Who do you think is untouchable on this team?

This means that, if the Twins offered you Johan Santana and Torii Hunter (which, btw, is a porn star name if ever there was one), for a package including your guy, you'd say "No".

My list is very, very short:  Biggio.

[jwhudson]

Oswalt, Berkman

[Limey]

Oswalt, Berkman

I had these on my list, and then I took them back.  I'd trade Oswalt if the return was great enough to justify it.  I doubt that anyone would offer up enough to get Oswalt, but if they did he'd be gone in a flash.  Ditto Berkman.

Remember, in my entirely fictitious scenario, the Twins are dangling Santana and Hunter...

[strosrays]

I had these on my list, and then I took them back.  I'd trade Oswalt if the return was great enough to justify it.  I doubt that anyone would offer up enough to get Oswalt, but if they did he'd be gone in a flash.  Ditto Berkman.

Remember, in my entirely fictitious scenario, the Twins are dangling Santana and Hunter...

Oswalt will go to Baltimore and then be flipped to another team.  FACT.

I cannot imagine a scenario where they would trade Berkman.  Or should.  After that, I don't know. 

[pravata]

I had these on my list, and then I took them back.  I'd trade Oswalt if the return was great enough to justify it.  I doubt that anyone would offer up enough to get Oswalt, but if they did he'd be gone in a flash.  Ditto Berkman.

Remember, in my entirely fictitious scenario, the Twins are dangling Santana and Hunter...

Well that's the key isn't it?  Purpura has said that he'd trade anybody if he was "overwhelmed".  J the JO got Roy to say he'd wave his no trade if the Astros asked him to and if it "would help the team".  For the Astros to remain the Astros, Oswalt, Berkman, Lee, Everett, Lidge, Qualls, Pence, Biggio, shouldn't be traded.  Otherwise it's a pickup team.

[Nate in IA]

Well that's the key isn't it?  Purpura has said that he'd trade anybody if he was "overwhelmed".  J the JO got Roy to say he'd wave his no trade if the Astros asked him to and if it "would help the team".  For the Astros to remain the Astros, Oswalt, Berkman, Lee, Everett, Lidge, Qualls, Pence, Biggio, shouldn't be traded.  Otherwise it's a pickup team.

Amen.

[MusicMan]

Look, I like Qualls, he's been a quality pitcher... but putting him in the category of those others makes no sense to me.  If they traded him tomorrow, I'd say, "hope we got something really good", and then I'd move on to the next game.

[Noe]

Look, I like Qualls, he's been a quality pitcher... but putting him in the category of those others makes no sense to me.  If they traded him tomorrow, I'd say, "hope we got something really good", and then I'd move on to the next game.

Fat Albers may prove out that Chad Qualls is expendable.  Rendundancy sorta thing.

[mihoba]

Fat Albers may prove out that Chad Qualls is expendable.  Rendundancy sorta thing.

For the right move, Qualls and Burke might work.

Postseason experienced players.

[pravata]

Look, I like Qualls, he's been a quality pitcher... but putting him in the category of those others makes no sense to me.  If they traded him tomorrow, I'd say, "hope we got something really good", and then I'd move on to the next game.

In his 4th year as an Astro, going with the theme of keeping players who were developed in their minor leagues.   I might also include WRodriguez and Sampson. 

[JimR]

gleach posed this question at the game the other night and, partly because of the recent chat about how untouchable PENCE!!! is, I thought it bring that topic in here.

Who do you think is untouchable on this team?

This means that, if the Twins offered you Johan Santana and Torii Hunter (which, btw, is a porn star name if ever there was one), for a package including your guy, you'd say "No".

My list is very, very short:  Biggio.

my untouchables:
Berkman
Lee
Oswalt
Pence
Lidge
Patton

Everett is close to this list.

Biggio is in another category. icons are not for sale or trade.

i would listen to proposed deals for any of them, too.

[MusicMan]

I didn't have Lidge on the list, but the bullpen's recent "performance" is causing me to rethink that.

[mihoba]

my untouchables:
Berkman
Lee
Oswalt
Pence
Lidge
Patton

Everett is close to this list.

Biggio is in another category. icons are not for sale or trade.

i would listen to proposed deals for any of them, too.

I agree with this, and I might add Sampson to the close list with AE, despite his recent struggles.

[CarolinaStro]

Pence and Patton are on my list.  In theory, any ideal trade you make would be for someone whom you would have control over and are talented. These guys already fit the bill.

[JimR]

I agree with this, and I might add Sampson to the close list with AE, despite his recent struggles.

i do not think i would add him, although i like him very much. i think he is settling back into where his ability will take him. he can pitch at the MLB level for sure, but he has to be near-perfect to be really good. he cannot pitch belt-high.

[Noe]

My list are guys I build a team around for the next several years:

Berkman
Oswalt
Pence
Patton
Lidge
Adam Everett
Lee (even though much later I would consider trading him).

[austro]

I didn't have Lidge on the list, but the bullpen's recent "performance" is causing me to rethink that.

Shouldn't that be "pooformance"?

[MusicMan]

Shouldn't that be "pooformance"?

It shouldn't be, but it has been...

[Froback]

My Untouchables
Berkman
Oswalt
Lidge (comment below)
Pence
Patton
Lee (only because he was just signed, sends back signal to future FAs)

Lidge recently made the list.  In the past the Astros have always seemed to have an heir apparent to the closer role, from Wagner to Dotel to Lidge.  It looked like Wheeler/Qualls might fit that "heir" role after Lidge, but recent results have shown that is NOT the case.  So I would be more willing to pony up the cash to keep Lidge than I ever was for Wagner or Dotel.  Until someone else comes along to show that "something" to be a closer, you keep a known.

With both Pence and Lee being LF types, it is hard to imagine both on the team for really long, without one showing significant defensive improvements.  But, there have been some pretty bad defensive teams that have won before, just seems alot harder to do.  And moving one to 1B and Berkman to RF, doesn't seem much better either.

We have seen that Berkman is essential to the teams offensive success this season.  And we have seen that he needs help based on last season, so Berkman-Lee combo when both are hitting seems important.

Oswalt is there because EVERY team worth spit needs AT LEAST one Ace.

I think Patton is untouchable just because he seems like the real deal (although still developing) and he is a lefty.  I think you let that ride out a little more and if he looks like another Hirsh, make the trade then.

I will end with saying, NOBODY is untouchable.  If you are offering me 3 all-stars for 1, I think you have to make deals like that, but if you are offering me Santanna plus something.... Suddenly my untouchable list goes blank.

[Limey]

my untouchables:
Berkman
Lee
Oswalt
Pence
Lidge
Patton

Everett is close to this list.

Biggio is in another category. icons are not for sale or trade.

i would listen to proposed deals for any of them, too.

Not being a dick or anything, but that finishing caveat makes your list the same as mine.  I'm in the insurance game, and we run you lawyers a close second in the you-better-read-every-fucking-word stakes.

[BudGirl]

Not being a dick or anything, but that finishing caveat makes your list the same as mine.  I'm in the insurance game, and we run you lawyers a close second in the you-better-read-every-fucking-word stakes.

You have to listen to them to know what other teams want.

[Limey]

You have to listen to them to know what other teams want.

Just like a titty bar: it's not wrong if you're only looking.

[BudGirl]

Just like a titty bar: it's not wrong if you're only looking.

Is that what you say or what Mrs. Limey says?

[legs_of_eggs]

In order of untouchability: Oswalt, Berkman, Lee, Pence, Patton

[Astroholic]

Just like a titty bar: it's not wrong if you're only looking.

Untouchables..the titties certainly aren’t. 



Or so I've heard.

[Froback]

Untouchables..the titties certainly aren’t. 



Or so I've heard.

But it will cost you...

[Astroholic]

But it will cost you...

Plead the fifth!

[The Third Man]

Everything is touchable if the price is right. I wouldn't want Oswalt, Patton, Pence, Berkman, or Lee giving lapdances at another club, but if some drunk with a lot resources makes a Herschel Walker offer (to further mix the metaphor), you would have to listen. I think the only untouchable for me is Craig Biggio.

Question about Lidge- does he still have a problem with his pitching mechanics that could cause arm trouble down the road? If this is true, how would this factor into his availability and what you could actually get for him?

[Randy Watson]

Lee is not untouchable to me...because I would not mind having Pence in Left and a CF with speed, great defense, and can get on base.

[Andyzipp]

Lee is not untouchable to me...because I would not mind having Pence in Left and a CF with speed, great defense, and can get on base.

He's untouchable because of the reality of the situation.  He signed as a free agent, what, 9 months ago?  Unless you want every FA to have to think about that while Drayton/Purpura is still in charge, Lee's untouchable.

Now, after year 3 of this deal, fosho.

[Randy Watson]

He's untouchable because of the reality of the situation.  He signed as a free agent, what, 9 months ago?  Unless you want every FA to have to think about that while Drayton/Purpura is still in charge, Lee's untouchable.

Now, after year 3 of this deal, fosho.

Fair enough.  I doubt we could get all that much for him anyway.  Don't get me wrong, he is a legit hitter and his approach is perfect for an RBI man.  But most teams won't give a lot of prospects for a guy with a big contract.  Easier to go sign one in free agency.

[Gleek]

If they offer Santana and Hunter, they can have any one player on our team, consequences be damned.

[juliogotay]

If they offer Santana and Hunter, they can have any one player on our team, consequences be damned.

Hunter is FA at end of season. Has indicated he would like to play for Ron Washington who does not manage in Houston. So, essentially you would be trading say Berkman, Pence or Oswalt for Santana and 1/2 season of Hunter. Is that still a deal you do?

[ybbodeus]

Now that NEW WANDY is strutting his stuff like a mutha', I can't help but wonder if there's a Cleveland out there, willing to make The Purp look like The Hun.


EDIT:  Oops!  I see there's already a Magic Wandi thread.  My bad.