Pence's best position

[JimR]

DH

brutal CFer.

[Frobie]

I certainly don't know the answer but I keep reading about how he's "better suited for a corner OF position" and then think about his arm and Carlos Lee's long-term contract, and, well, I guess we'll see what happens. 

[stubbyc]

DH

brutal CFer.

FOS

[ValpoCory]

Everyone was railing on Willy T for a year too.  By the 2nd half of year two he was an above average defensive center fielder.

[otterjb]

Bringing Pence up, when they did, is the best move the organization has made all season. Without a doubt.

[stubbyc]

Everyone was railing on Willy T for a year too.  By the 2nd half of year two he was an above average defensive center fielder.

And Pence has played a much better CF than Taveras did back in '05. Pence isn't a Gold Glove outfielder, but calling him "brutal" is absurd. This is a guy who almost exclusively played the corner outfields in the minors and only started playing CF regularly this year. He's likely to get better not worse and it's not like he's Barker out there right now.

Pence makes a bad play in the 10th tonight and apparently he's a DH. We have one outfielder who is clearly playing hurt and is limping towards everything. We have another who is slow as hell and shows a general disinterest in defense altogether. If Pence is a DH then he's not the only one on this team who is.

[JimR]

And Pence has played a much better CF than Taveras did back in '05. Pence isn't a Gold Glove outfielder, but calling him "brutal" is absurd. This is a guy who almost exclusively played the corner outfields in the minors and only started playing CF regularly this year. He's likely to get better not worse and it's not like he's Barker out there right now.

Pence makes a bad play in the 10th tonight and apparently he's a DH. We have one outfielder who is clearly playing hurt and is limping towards everything. We have another who is slow as hell and shows a general disinterest in defense altogether. If Pence is a DH then he's not the only one on this team who is.

near as i can figure, you do not watch the games because no one could be this stupid. Pence's speed is his saving grace. Taveras on his worst day was way better than Pence defensively. your response is that of a teenager: "oh, yeah? look what someone else does." the fact that there are several DHs on this team does not change the fact that Pence is one of them.

[Mr. Happy]

DH

brutal CFer.

I don't know if DH is his best position, but he certainly makes the easy plays look hard out there in CF and keeps me on pins and needles.

[JimR]

Bringing Pence up, when they did, is the best move the organization has made all season. Without a doubt.

it has worked out so far, no doubt. we were talking at the Express game last night how amazing it is after what we saw at Dell Diamond. it is not just his BA, which is one of the biggest miracles i have seen for the Astros. his swing is better, too, and he is hitting the ball harder than he did in RR. he has a shorter stroke, almost slapping at the ball at times. he has done a really good job at the plate, and so far, the pitchers are cooperating by not giving him a steady diet of low and away. the callup was an act of total desperation or a AIS move by Drayton, and he has made the most of it.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

DH

brutal CFer.

Yeah but DH ain't a position. He is brutal but he is also raw and has a lot of time to get better. Most of his mistakes are in my opinion (or my hope) of the kind that happen when someone is unfamiliar or new at a position. Last night's near collision with him and Scott, was caused by a communication breakdown. Someone didn't take charge and call the other guy off. The lefty Scott was probably waiting for Pence to make the call. Pence probably still isn't sure what he can get to or not. So Hunter isn't a good CF. He's still the best option for now.

[JimR]

Yeah but DH ain't a position. He is brutal but he is also raw and has a lot of time to get better. Most of his mistakes are in my opinion (or my hope) of the kind that happen when someone is unfamiliar or new at a position. Last night's near collision with him and Scott, was caused by a communication breakdown. Someone didn't take charge and call the other guy off. The lefty Scott was probably waiting for Pence to make the call. Pence probably still isn't sure what he can get to or not. So Hunter isn't a good CF. He's still the best option for now.

no doubt about "best option." try "only option." he is not a good OFer, no matter what position--poor routes, missteps, misjudges the ball. he did all of this in RR, too. fly balls to him were an adventure. what sets him apart from Taveras at mid-season last year is hustle and attitude. Pence busts his ass on every play and is trying as hard as he can to make plays and get better. that goes a long way toward making folks overlook poor plays.

[BudGirl]

One reason for his success so far might be his friendship with Biggio.

[Andyzipp]

One reason for his success so far might be his friendship with Biggio.

There's no way that can be true.  Biggio is a cancer, and a horrible teammate.  And a Papist.  And proof that the Astros aren't interested in winning. And he smells of elderberries.

[JimR]

There's no way that can be true.  Biggio is a cancer, and a horrible teammate.  And a Papist.  And proof that the Astros aren't interested in winning. And he smells of elderberries.

elderberries? ugh.

[Andyzipp]

elderberries? ugh.

Oddly enough, they smell just like the combination of clay, pine tar and cigarettes.

[Fredia]

Oddly enough, they smell just like the combination of clay, pine tar and cigarettes.

you need to go further in explaining this.about how you know
 and back to the pence thing , its a promotional genius type thing. think how many single young women are now at the game lusting after  hunter...

[BudGirl]

you need to go further in explaining this.about how you know
 and back to the pence thing , its a promotional genius type thing. think how many single young women are now at the game lusting after  hunter...

too many, he's not that cute.

[Fredia]

too many, he's not that cute.

it must be something, my 21 year odl daughter is glued to the tv everytime he bats

[MusicMan]

it must be something, my 21 year odl daughter is glued to the tv everytime he bats

Does she have a thing for guys who don't blink?

[Zac D]

Does she have a thing for guys who don't blink?

"My God... he's so intense..."

[Fredia]

Does she have a thing for guys who don't blink?

i dunno let me ask her. wonder if i have a bud girl wanna be .. but with pence..i need a drink

[BudGirl]

i dunno let me ask her. wonder if i have a bud girl wanna be .. but with pence..i need a drink

there can only be one BudGirl, thank god.

[JimR]

Does she have a thing for guys who don't blink?

he looks like an inhabitant of a fishbowl looking out.

[pravata]

Yeah but DH ain't a position. He is brutal but he is also raw and has a lot of time to get better. Most of his mistakes are in my opinion (or my hope) of the kind that happen when someone is unfamiliar or new at a position. Last night's near collision with him and Scott, was caused by a communication breakdown. Someone didn't take charge and call the other guy off. The lefty Scott was probably waiting for Pence to make the call. Pence probably still isn't sure what he can get to or not. So Hunter isn't a good CF. He's still the best option for now.

I've seen a number of times Scott calling loudly and animatedly waving off Pence on flies to right.  He's a menace out there.  Bad arm, teams don't hesitate to run, even from 2nd on bloop singles, has trouble catching on the run, and has no idea where he is in the field.  Those leaps on the warning track arent funny.  The argument in the Chron, pandering to their base, was that he's a "natural centerfielder".  He's closer to being a natural banana than a centerfielder.

[das]

Does she have a thing for guys who don't blink?

Beaker did not blink, either.  Frightenly similar and makes me laugh each time I see him bat.

[Bench]

The argument in the Chron, pandering to their base, was that he's a "natural centerfielder". 

He's a natural centerfielder because, unlike Burke, Pence played outfield before, thereby qualifying him as a natural outfielder (unlike Bonds post-1998). Meanwhile, it is widely acknowledged that centerfield is in the outfield. Ergo, he is a natural centerfielder. How can you not follow that simple logic?

Edited to add: Thanks Gerry.

[pravata]

He's a natural centerfielder because, unlike Burke, Pence played outfield before, thereby qualifying him as a natural outfielder (unlike Bonds post-1998). Meanwhile, it is widely acknowledged that centerfield is in the outfield. Ergo, he is a natural centerfielder. How can you not follow that simple logic?

Edited to add: Thanks Gerry.

Outfielders are born not made?

[Bench]

Outfielders are born not made?

Only the organic ones.

[MusicMan]

I only buy organic soy gluten-free outfielders.

ETA: I clearly opposed the Lee signing for this reason.

[pravata]

Only the organic ones.

Takes a lot of fertilizer.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Takes a lot of fertilizer.

And a lot of hay too.

[legs_of_eggs]

no doubt about "best option." try "only option." he is not a good OFer, no matter what position--poor routes, missteps, misjudges the ball. he did all of this in RR, too. fly balls to him were an adventure. what sets him apart from Taveras at mid-season last year is hustle and attitude. Pence busts his ass on every play and is trying as hard as he can to make plays and get better. that goes a long way toward making folks overlook poor plays.

I don't think his issue is the poor routes, missteps, and misjudges on fly balls as much as it is his arm. He can learn and get a better feeling of balls in time but his arm won't get better. On my team I want the best outfield arms in the corners and speed in center so sorta by default hes in center.

[Noe]

I don't think his issue is the poor routes, missteps, and misjudges on fly balls as much as it is his arm. He can learn and get a better feeling of balls in time but his arm won't get better. On my team I want the best outfield arms in the corners and speed in center so sorta by default hes in center.

I do think his problem is poor routes, missteps and bad reads.  Correctable?  I think so, but right now, he isn't the best CF option I've seen for Houston.  Josh Flores just got promoted to AA and if he keeps playing the way he has, in a couple of years, he'll lap Pence as the starting CF prospect for Houston.  Pence will be headed for the infield or RF at that point, if they haven't traded Carlos Lee away and eaten a big portion of his salary to boot.  In that case, Pence is a LF.

[Andyzipp]

I don't think his issue is the poor routes, missteps, and misjudges on fly balls as much as it is his arm. He can learn and get a better feeling of balls in time but his arm won't get better. On my team I want the best outfield arms in the corners and speed in center so sorta by default hes in center.

If he took the correct routes, eliminated the missteps and learned to judge the ball better, it would lessen the negative effects of his Cylon-like throws.

[Trey]

I do think his problem is poor routes, missteps and bad reads.  Correctable?  I think so, but right now, he isn't the best CF option I've seen for Houston.  Josh Flores just got promoted to AA and if he keeps playing the way he has, in a couple of years, he'll lap Pence as the starting CF prospect for Houston.  Pence will be headed for the infield or RF at that point, if they haven't traded Carlos Lee away and eaten a big portion of his salary to boot.  In that case, Pence is a LF.

Where in the IF would Pence play?

[SeanBergmanRules]

Where in the IF would Pence play?

If he could learn to throw lefthanded he might make a decent third baseman.

[Andyzipp]

Where in the IF would Pence play?

I'm guessing either 1st, or more dicussions about shitting balls across the diamond.

[Noe]

Where in the IF would Pence play?

1st base if necessary.  Of course, it would then be a choice of the lesser of two evils: Berkman or Pence in RF.

[stubbyc]

near as i can figure, you do not watch the games because no one could be this stupid. Pence's speed is his saving grace. Taveras on his worst day was way better than Pence defensively. your response is that of a teenager: "oh, yeah? look what someone else does." the fact that there are several DHs on this team does not change the fact that Pence is one of them.

This is such bullshit. You probably caught the game in the 10th. What about the catch he made on Friday night on the ball Kinsler hit? Perfect route to the wall in right center. He's made some fantastic plays too. The ball Durham hit in SF comes to mind. Hit sharply directly over his head and to the wall; Hunter takes a direct route to the ball and makes a catch to save a couple of runs. He's not always graceful out there. So what?

[stubbyc]

it has worked out so far, no doubt. we were talking at the Express game last night how amazing it is after what we saw at Dell Diamond. it is not just his BA, which is one of the biggest miracles i have seen for the Astros. his swing is better, too, and he is hitting the ball harder than he did in RR. he has a shorter stroke, almost slapping at the ball at times. he has done a really good job at the plate, and so far, the pitchers are cooperating by not giving him a steady diet of low and away. the callup was an act of total desperation or a AIS move by Drayton, and he has made the most of it.

Yea you keep on spouting this Jim and it might eventually be true. Pence was so unready for the ML that he has hit .353 so far. Pitchers are throwing him everything. Santana started throwing him changeups the other night because Hunter was hitting both his fastball and his slider. The pitch Pence hit in the 9th was a changeup. The pitch he hit in the 10th was a slider. He can hit.

Miracles and desperation though. Are you still going to insist that he wasn't ready?

[Andyzipp]

This is such bullshit. You probably caught the game in the 10th. What about the catch he made on Friday night on the ball Kinsler hit? Perfect route to the wall in right center. He's made some fantastic plays too. The ball Durham hit in SF comes to mind. Hit sharply directly over his head and to the wall; Hunter takes a direct route to the ball and makes a catch to save a couple of runs. He's not always graceful out there. So what?

He doesn't do this near consistenly enough to say he's good at it.  I could just as easily said he guessed right Friday night and guessed wrong last night.  Right now most of the time, he guesses incorrectly.  His speed saves him.

He has a lot to work on, but other than the arm, everything can be improved if he works at it.  Setting your hair on fire is not the same as working.

[Trey]

1st base if necessary.  Of course, it would then be a choice of the lesser of two evils: Berkman or Pence in RF.

Franks.  I had blocked out the possibility of Berkman back in the OF.

[Noe]

He doesn't do this near consistenly enough to say he's good at it.  I could just as easily said he guessed right Friday night and guessed wrong last night.  Right now most of the time, he guesses incorrectly.  His speed saves him.

He has a lot to work on, but other than the arm, everything can be improved if he works at it.  Setting your hair on fire is not the same as working.

The people who matter are actually working with him on the hair on fire approach.  Meaning, they don't think this will work for him in the majors and are trying to get the young man to learn the position as quickly as they can.  It is a work in progress and it will have it's nights of dissappointment from the young man.  Overall though, he's fun to watch even when he's making mistakes.

[stubbyc]

I would like to add on Taveras too. Taveras, considering his speed, was about as an awful an OF as possible during the first half of 2005. He needed a map to find every ball. I've never seen any OF not catch as many balls that hit his glove. He dropped 2 routine flyballs against SF in the same inning during one game. At one point in '05 the Astros had Lamb and Taveras out in the OF just turning every flyball hit out there into a triple. Taveras was running away from flyballs hit right at him.

Taveras eventually got better and played more to his minor league reputation, but Taveras had a lot more experience in CF coming into '05 than Pence did coming into '07.

[Noe]

I would like to add on Taveras too. Taveras, considering his speed, was about as an awful an OF as possible during the first half of 2005. He needed a map to find every ball. I've never seen any OF not catch as many balls that hit his glove. He dropped 2 routine flyballs against SF in the same inning during one game. At one point in '05 the Astros had Lamb and Taveras out in the OF just turning every flyball hit out there into a triple. Taveras was running away from flyballs hit right at him.

Taveras eventually got better and played more to his minor league reputation, but Taveras had a lot more experience in CF coming into '05 than Pence did coming into '07.

I don't understand... are you talking to me?

[legs_of_eggs]

This is such bullshit. You probably caught the game in the 10th. What about the catch he made on Friday night on the ball Kinsler hit? Perfect route to the wall in right center. He's made some fantastic plays too. The ball Durham hit in SF comes to mind. Hit sharply directly over his head and to the wall; Hunter takes a direct route to the ball and makes a catch to save a couple of runs. He's not always graceful out there. So what?

I agree - He's an obvious athlete and has just started playing the position. I remember whenever Willy got near Tal's Hill hed stumble all over it and awkwardly make or not make the catch. Pence can climb the hill in 3 steps, he's made atleast 5 catches on it with ease. Given his speed and grind and ability to catch on to the game combined with his quickness and 6'4" stride he should be fine in center.

[Noe]

I agree - He's an obvious athlete and has just started playing the position. I remember whenever Willy got near Tal's Hill hed stumble all over it and awkwardly make or not make the catch. Pence can climb the hill in 3 steps, he's made atleast 5 catches on it with ease. Given his speed and grind and ability to catch on to the game combined with his quickness and 6'4" stride he should be fine in center.

Lance Berkman was a CF for Houston that made spectacular catches, perhaps the best ever seen going up Tal's Hill.  Just saying...

[MikeyBoy]

Working on routes, turns, steps, etc. will help become a better outfielder, but nothing takes the place of instincts and if a player does not have good instincts, then all of the drills in the world won't make him a good defensive player. I have not seen enough of Hunter in person to comment on his instincts, I'm just speaking general. A lesser arm can be helped with the proper approach to the ball and solid throwing mechanics, the latter is not going to change with Hunter, evidently.

[stubbyc]

I don't understand... are you talking to me?

Not especially.

[JimR]

This is such bullshit. You probably caught the game in the 10th. What about the catch he made on Friday night on the ball Kinsler hit? Perfect route to the wall in right center. He's made some fantastic plays too. The ball Durham hit in SF comes to mind. Hit sharply directly over his head and to the wall; Hunter takes a direct route to the ball and makes a catch to save a couple of runs. He's not always graceful out there. So what?

you seem to be outnumbered here, stubbs, but that is probably true wherever you are in your life. you love Hunter, and Seinfeld taught us there is nothing wrong with that. your thinking he is an ok OFer is laughable. comic relief appears to be your strong suit.

carry on with your annual Summer of Stalking.

[pravata]

Working on routes, turns, steps, etc. will help become a better outfielder, but nothing takes the place of instincts and if a player does not have good instincts, then all of the drills in the world won't make him a good defensive player. I have not seen enough of Hunter in person to comment on his instincts, I'm just speaking general. A lesser arm can be helped with the proper approach to the ball and solid throwing mechanics, the latter is not going to change with Hunter, evidently.

Running back and making a highlight catch isnt Pence's problem.  One problem is running across the field and trying to make a catch while running.  At least 3 of those have popped out of his glove.  The other, more serious problem is the arm.  And it's not even the arm.  He doesn't charge the ball in well.  When runners no longer score from 2nd on a bloop single to center, then he will be an adequate CF.

[legs_of_eggs]

Lance Berkman was a CF for Houston that made spectacular catches, perhaps the best ever seen going up Tal's Hill.  Just saying...

That catch was less spectacular and more hilariously awkward and besides Pence is a lot more of an athlete.

[stubbyc]

you seem to be outnumbered here, stubbs, but that is probably true wherever you are in your life. you love Hunter, and Seinfeld taught us there is nothing wrong with that. your thinking he is an ok OFer is laughable. comic relief appears to be your strong suit.

carry on with your annual Summer of Stalking.

Whatever Jim. I've been told just to ignore this "Stalking" bit you pull by some of your fellow popes.

Is Pence still not ready for the major leagues?

[Noe]

Not especially.

Okay thanks, because I wasn't sure what the point was.

[Noe]

That catch was less spectacular and more hilariously awkward and besides Pence is a lot more of an athlete.

Lance Berkman is an athlete too and no, it wasn't less spectacular.  Berkman made the catch of a lifetime up Tal's Hill.  Just saying...

[Noe]

Working on routes, turns, steps, etc. will help become a better outfielder, but nothing takes the place of instincts and if a player does not have good instincts, then all of the drills in the world won't make him a good defensive player. I have not seen enough of Hunter in person to comment on his instincts, I'm just speaking general. A lesser arm can be helped with the proper approach to the ball and solid throwing mechanics, the latter is not going to change with Hunter, evidently.

Instincts make a top of the line, legit CF.  Lack of instincts, but good fundamental skills, hard work and sound decision making make for a decent to above average CF that won't hurt you much.  Lack of instincts with less than paletable work ethic makes for Roger Cedeno!

I'll say it again, Josh Flores is making his way up the organizational ladder and he is a legit CF.  If he does not falter, he will be pushing his way into the big leagues soon, definitely in two years.  And he'll be tons better at the position than Pence. 

[JimR]

Whatever Jim. I've been told just to ignore this "Stalking" bit you pull by some of your fellow popes.

Is Pence still not ready for the major leagues?

really? if they are giving you that advice, i'm sure they'll have the courtesy to tell me.

hard to say. he has hit well so far. he is nowhere near a MLB OFer, though. time will tell. lots of phenoms fail over time. some get better. i hope he's the latter.

carry on. we'll see whoelse gets your BS responses but me. lots of folks telling you you're full of it. try not focusing on me. it will aid in your recovery.

[stubbyc]

really? if they are giving you that advice, i'm sure they'll have the courtesy to tell me.

hard to say. he has hit well so far. he is nowhere near a MLB OFer, though. time will tell. lots of phenoms fail over time. some get better. i hope he's the latter.

carry on. we'll see whoelse gets your BS responses but me. lots of folks telling you you're full of it. try not focusing on me. it will aid in your recovery.

Most people avoid talking to you unless they agree with you 100%. Everyone realizes it's a waste of time arguing with you.

The fact that you called Huff a "good OF'er" and Hunter Pence is nowhere near a MLB OF'er is all the comedy I need today Jim.

[JimR]

Most people avoid talking to you unless they agree with you 100%. Everyone realizes it's a waste of time arguing with you.

The fact that you called Huff a "good OF'er" and Hunter Pence is nowhere near a MLB OF'er is all the comedy I need today Jim.

fuck off, stubby. i'm tired of your incessant stalking. we're going on three years now. answer some of these other folks who have told you what you do not want to hear. i'm glad you know what "everyone" thinks. i think most everyone thinks you are a petty little whiner.

Pence is nowhere near a good OFer. pravata said better than i did. take him on next. he'll tell you to kiss his ass quicker than i have.

[stubbyc]

We're at the crux of the argument. You think Pence is a DH. I think it's obvious that he's not.

Please spare me of your indignant victim bullshit though.

[pravata]

We're at the crux of the argument. You think Pence is a DH. I think it's obvious that he's not.

Please spare me of your indignant victim bullshit though.

It's obvious that he's not above average in center neither.  Footer is wrong on this one, as witness the feeling you get on a bloop single to center.  Runners dont score from 2nd on an average fielder.  Period.

[Gleek]

fuck off, stubby. i'm tired of your incessant stalking. we're going on three years now. answer some of these other folks who have told you what you do not want to hear. i'm glad you know what "everyone" thinks. i think most everyone thinks you are a petty little whiner.

Pence is nowhere near a good OFer. pravata said better than i did. take him on next. he'll tell you to kiss his ass quicker than i have.

Damn, must be some history i'm not aware of involved in this argument.  Jim, i really don't think Stubby is saying that PENCE is a great defensive centerfielder, shit i'm willing to bet that he would concede that ALL CAPS is even below average defensively.  However, he will get better, but he will never be a great outfielder, period.  My point is this, we all agree the kid is below average defensively and above average offensively (for now), but to call him a DH is going a bit to far in my opinion.  So whats the argument about, maybe you two just don't like each other?

[JimR]

We're at the crux of the argument. You think Pence is a DH. I think it's obvious that he's not.

Please spare me of your indignant victim bullshit though.

not a victim at all. you think you know more about baseball than i. that's fine; a lot of folks do. you're not one of them, though.

Pence is awful in CF except for his speed, hustle and attitude. if you cannot see that, i understand. i would not expect you to be able to. there is no argument about his OF play. you stand alone. perhaps Pence will get better at judging and tracking fly balls. i hope so. he will not get much better throwing, though, and as pravata has pointed out lots of times, teams totally disregard his arm. during the Texas series, his throws to the plate were not in the same zip code as home plate.

comparing Pence to Huff is apples and oranges, but i will. Pence has him on speed. Huff tracked the ball better, judged it better and had a better, more accurate arm. Pence will get to balls Huff could not, solely b/c of speed. Pence has a great attitude, and i think, but do not know, that Huff was an intense competitor who busted his ass.

the entire thing about you is me. how flattering. what was it last year for you? Lidge? Taveras? what will it be next? Jennings? Lidge again? Garner? Purpura? can't wait to see.

DH? no, they don't have one in this league. 1B maybe. LF maybe. anywhere he does not have to throw the ball very far.

he's a good hitter so far. he seems to be a good kid. that's all so far.

[JimR]

Damn, must be some history i'm not aware of involved in this argument.  Jim, i really don't think Stubby is saying that PENCE is a great defensive centerfielder, shit i'm willing to bet that he would concede that ALL CAPS is even below average defensively.  However, he will get better, but he will never be a great outfielder, period.  My point is this, we all agree the kid is below average defensively and above average offensively (for now), but to call him a DH is going a bit to far in my opinion.  So whats the argument about, maybe you two just don't like each other?

no one is talking to you.

[JSAstrosFan]

I remember seeing someone say in another thread that because of his sidearm throw Pence is not accurate, but he has arm strength. Garner disagrees:

"I think he's more comfortable [defensively]," manager Phil Garner said. "He doesn't have a great arm, but he's accurate."

[Savage]

no one is talking to you.

Then take this shit to PM or learn to use the ignore function. 

[JimR]

I remember seeing someone say in another thread that because of his sidearm throw Pence is not accurate, but he has arm strength. Garner disagrees:

"I think he's more comfortable [defensively]," manager Phil Garner said. "He doesn't have a great arm, but he's accurate."

if Garner really believes this, he is nuts...unless, of course, he thinks that a throw home should be well up the third base line.

[JimR]

Then take this shit to PM or learn to use the ignore function. 

or to you either

[WulawHorn]

if Garner really believes this, he is nuts...unless, of course, he thinks that a throw home should be well up the third base line.

I've said repeatedly (and been blasted by pravata for it) that Garner makes stuff up all the time in order to make his guys seem better in the press.  Either that or he's stupid about baseball (which I don't believe).
See- Lamb, Mike is a plus defender, Burke, chris is the best left fielder in the National league etc.

[JimR]

I've said repeatedly (and been blasted by pravata for it) that Garner makes stuff up all the time in order to make his guys seem better in the press.  Either that or he's stupid about baseball (which I don't believe).
See- Lamb, Mike is a plus defender, Burke, chris is the best left fielder in the National league etc.

i think so, at least he tries to be positive in the press. most coaches do, but this one was nuts.

[pravata]

I've said repeatedly (and been blasted by pravata for it) that Garner makes stuff up all the time in order to make his guys seem better in the press.  Either that or he's stupid about baseball (which I don't believe).
See- Lamb, Mike is a plus defender, Burke, chris is the best left fielder in the National league etc.

And will be in future.  I've never said that I take everything anyone in the Astros organization says purely as gospel.   People who want to make an easy argument believe that.  I do however give them the benefit of the doubt until I can demonstrate that they are wrong.  See, Lamb, Burke, (however the organization had reason to believe) Pence.  The alternative is to automatically dismiss whatever anyone says and go with my own opinion.  Do we want to list how many times that method has been wrong?

[mihoba]

The alternative is to automatically dismiss whatever anyone says and go with my own opinion.  Do we want to list how many times that method has been wrong?

Please don't. Especially mine.

[JimR]

The alternative is to automatically dismiss whatever anyone says and go with my own opinion. 

that is not what he was saying. his comment was about a specific quote, not a method of reading all quotes.

[pravata]

if Garner really believes this, he is nuts...unless, of course, he thinks that a throw home should be well up the third base line.

Garner said this right after Hunter made two accurate throws, one to the plate.  So in the immediate situation he was correct.   But Hunter having a reliably accurate arm, at this stage, is wishful thinking.

[pravata]

that is not what he was saying. his comment was about a specific quote, not a method of reading all quotes.

I was refering, as he was, to past conversations.

[JimR]

Garner said this right after Hunter made two accurate throws, one to the plate.  So in the immediate situation he was correct.   But Hunter having a reliably accurate arm, at this stage, is wishful thinking.

by about 30 feet up the line

[davek]

Garner said this right after Hunter made two accurate throws, one to the plate.  So in the immediate situation he was correct.   But Hunter having a reliably accurate arm, at this stage, is wishful thinking.

Makes you wonder if Gar has ever heard that even blind squirrels find an acorn once in awhile...

For the life of me I don't understand how HP's defensive prowess (or lack thereof) could possibly be an issue...

JimR is entirely correct, HP's outfield adventures have been brutal to date... To claim he is even an average major league center fielder is absurd... To claim he is better than Willy T was in 2005 is indicative of either severe memory loss or some form of baseball dementia...

Can he be better some time in the future?... Deere Lowered, I hope so... But it's my belief he has a huge amount of work to do including a complete re-learning of how to throw a baseball... Missing a cutoff man by 25 feet just ain't gonna get it defensively...

[Randy Watson]

by about 30 feet up the line

Having watched Ausmus not being a fan of shielding the plate from runners -- and instead preferring the matador tag -- maybe Ausmus told him to do that.

[davek]

Having watched Ausmus not being a fan of shielding the plate from runners -- and instead preferring the matador tag -- maybe Ausmus told him to do that.

You know, when BudGirl is done with you you're gonna wish it had been Spack going after your spleen...

[Taras Bulba]

Having watched Ausmus not being a fan of shielding the plate from runners -- and instead preferring the matador tag -- maybe Ausmus told him to do that.

Ausmus does pretty good with the matador tag.  It's probably kept him off the DL, allowing him to block nasty pitches in the dirt and say nasty things to Richard Justice.

[BudGirl]

Having watched Ausmus not being a fan of shielding the plate from runners -- and instead preferring the matador tag -- maybe Ausmus told him to do that.

You wish you were funny, don't you?

[stubbyc]

no one is talking to you.

You really can be a fucking child. Does he need your permission to speak?

[stubbyc]

that is not what he was saying. his comment was about a specific quote, not a method of reading all quotes.

Right. So when Garner says something that you agree with he's telling the truth, but whenever he says something you don't agree with he must be lying (since you're always right). Glad we have that cleared up.

[Noe]

Can you guys do me a favor and put each other on ignore.

Thanks.