I Went to Bed at 11:35, Up 9-4. We Won, Right?

[Alkie]

Bases loaded, Qualls in, I figured "hell, he'll get the DP, we ain't blowing a 5 run lead...even to the Angels."

I read the GZ. 

Someone wanna tell me what the fuck happened after I went to fucking bed?

I understand there were some bad bounces and shitty umpiring.  SIX FUCKING RUNS WORTH??

[Alkie]

By the way.  Sampson was shit.

[MusicMan]

I wonder where you could go for a recap?

[pravata]

By the way.  Sampson was shit.

Every hit was a single and every baserunner went 1st to 3rd, 2nd to home, whatever.  THEY WOULDN'T STOP RUNNING.   Sampson did what he always does.  Got groundballs.   None of the Angels groundballs hit any of the Astros strategically placed traffic cones with gloves stuck on them. 

[Alkie]

I wonder where you could go for a recap?

I read that too.

What I'm asking isn't "what plays occurred in the field of play after I retired for the evening?" 

I am asking "WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?"

[Alkie]

Every hit was a single and every baserunner went 1st to 3rd, 2nd to home, whatever.  THEY WOULDN'T STOP RUNNING.   Sampson did what he always does.  Got groundballs.   None of the Angels groundballs hit any of the Astros strategically placed traffic cones with gloves stuck on them. 

You cats stayed up til 1am watching this?  How are you at work today?

[pravata]

You cats stayed up til 1am watching this?  How are you at work today?

Please.

[utastro]

Bases loaded, Qualls in, I figured "hell, he'll get the DP, we ain't blowing a 5 run lead...even to the Angels."

I read the GZ. 

Someone wanna tell me what the fuck happened after I went to fucking bed?

I understand there were some bad bounces and shitty umpiring.  SIX FUCKING RUNS WORTH??

Chone Figgins happened.  Fucking 6 for 6 with the winning triple off of reVerT.  I don't know about you but I think I've seen enough of the Angels.  That team is scary good.

[Alkie]

Chone Figgins happened.  Fucking 6 for 6 with the winning triple off of reVerT.  I don't know about you but I think I've seen enough of the Angels.  That team is scary good.

You know, before we lost the damn game, we had scored 9 runs on the best team in baseball (2nd best?) in their home park.  It's not like we lost 21-0. 

[pravata]

You know, before we lost the damn game, we had scored 9 runs on the best team in baseball (2nd best?) in their home park.  It's not like we lost 21-0. 

Knocked around the guy they're touting as the All Star starting pitcher.  If any of the Astros infielders had the range of a ficus on wheels they'd have won.

[MusicMan]

Knocked around the guy they're touting as the All Star starting pitcher.  If any of the Astros infielders had the range of a ficus on wheels they'd have won.

Reminds me of Sampson's start against the Phillies... not incidentally, when Loretta was also playing SS.

[Gizzmonic]

You cats stayed up til 1am watching this?  How are you at work today?

Pills.  Little white pills.

[Foghorn]

I read that too.

What I'm asking isn't "what plays occurred in the field of play after I retired for the evening?" 

I am asking "WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED?"

I'll tell you what happened.

Garner had his head up his ass.  Sampson had gone 6 shitty innings, allowing 12 hits and 2 walks.  The Top of the 7th was long and any momentum Sampson had from a relatively quiet 6th inning was gone.

He had zero business going out there to face the meat of the lineup in the 7th.  

Garner also had some reason for having Lamb play 1B and Berkman DH.  On Figgins high chopper, Lamb should have been standing on the bag waiting for the throw but instead he was in no man's land.  Lamb should not be in the field over Berkman.

Garner lost a 5 run lead in the last 3 innings and neither of his 2 best relievers threw a single pitch.

Loretta doesn't cover much ground at SS, Biggio's arm makes Henri Stanley look like Dave Parker cicra the 1979 All Star Game.  The check-swing before the sac fly wasn't close.  

Lotsa guys screwed the pooch on this one, but Garner was the one doing the most deep dickin'.

[MusicMan]

Garner lost a 5 run lead in the last 3 innings and neither of his 2 best relievers threw a single pitch.

This point bears repeating.

[BudGirl]

Wasn't Berkman DHing because of the flu?

And I definitely thought Lamb should have been at first on that high chopper. 

[remy]

Not getting the runner home from 3rd with 1 out in the top of the 9th is what did it for me.

[HurricaneDavid]

You cats stayed up til 1am watching this?

1:45.

[pravata]

This point bears repeating.

How so?  They were ahead in the 7th when Qualls came in.  Borkowski for the tie and Miller on to turn around Figgins, game still tied. 

[utastro]

You know, before we lost the damn game, we had scored 9 runs on the best team in baseball (2nd best?) in their home park.  It's not like we lost 21-0. 

We needed more than 9 runs.  The Angels were hitting everything.  Borkowski had the best success.  Qualls, reVerT, and Sampson got hit and often.  Ensberg had the best chance to put the Astros up in the top of the 9th with the bases loaded and 1 out and a full count.  He lined it straight to the 3rd baseman.  A little left or right and the Astros score and then Lidge turns the lights out (or so the story goes in my confused world).

[Foghorn]

Wasn't Berkman DHing because of the flu?

And I definitely thought Lamb should have been at first on that high chopper. 

On the flu, possibly.  Though if Lance can muster up the strength to swing the bat, he can muster up the strength to play 1B.  Plus with as much lip flapping as he does, he'd get the entire LAAAAAAA Angels of Anaheim sick with the same shit he has.  Cough on Chode Faggins a few times and see if he goes 6 for 6.

[pravata]

On the flu, possibly.  Though if Lance can muster up the strength to swing the bat, he can muster up the strength to play 1B.  Plus with as much lip flapping as he does, he'd get the entire LAAAAAAA Angels of Anaheim sick with the same shit he has.  Cough on Chode Faggins a few times and see if he goes 6 for 6.

Good idea on the Typhoid Mary ploy.  Something is needed to slow these guys down.  But Berkman is no treasure at 1st neither.  He is frequently seen where he ought not be.

[MusicMan]

How so?  They were ahead in the 7th when Qualls came in. 

I'm just saying that, after yu've watched Sampson and Qualls die by the death of a thousand groundballs, maybe you want your best strikeout pitcher in there?

[pravata]

I'm just saying that, after yu've watched Sampson and Qualls die by the death of a thousand groundballs, maybe you want your best strikeout pitcher in there?

Good luck striking those guys out.

[Foghorn]

How so?  They were ahead in the 7th when Qualls came in.  Borkowski for the tie and Miller on to turn around Figgins, game still tied. 

Thats it.  They were ahead by 5 runs when Qualls came in and before he left the game the score was tied.  

And if the choice is Wheeler/Lidge versus a lefty hitting Figgins or Miller vereus a right hitting Figgins, I'm choosing Wheeler/Lidge.

Trever Miller in 2007 versus Right Handers...370/487/519

[Noe]

Thats it.  They were ahead by 5 runs when Qualls came in and before he left the game the score was tied. 

And if the choice is Wheeler/Lidge versus a lefty hitting Figgins or Miller vereus a right hitting Figgins, I'm choosing Wheeler/Lidge.

Trever Miller in 2007 versus Right Handers...370/487/519

Right handers can see Miller's 87 mph fastball really well.  Even if tries to spot it on the outside corner, they're going to see it well enough to hit it hard to right field.

[Foghorn]

Right handers can see Miller's 87 mph fastball really well.  Even if tries to spot it on the outside corner, they're going to see it well enough to hit it hard to right field.

Hence the 370/487/519 line against him.

I would never want Miller pitching to a right handed hitter with a runner on base in the 9th inning of a tie game.

NEVER.

[Noe]

Hence the 370/487/519 line against him.

I would never want Miller pitching to a right handed hitter with a runner on base in the 9th inning of a tie game.

NEVER.

Garner has one move to Soscia's two moves in the ninth.  Chone Figgins was hitting like a lightweight right handed, so the choice was Figgins hitting left handed or right handed and Garner chose right handed.  But Chone Figgins isn't Lance Berkman all of sudden to worry about turning him around (IMHO), so it was a calculated mistake on Garner's part.  But not one without reason.

[Alkie]

Hence the 370/487/519 line against him.

I would never want Miller pitching to a right handed hitter with a runner on base in the 9th inning of a tie game.

NEVER.

Miller, Trever  2007
vs RHB as LH  .370  .528  .519 = 1.047 OPSagainst 
vs LHB as LH  .277  .393  .532 = .925 OPSagainst

Time to release him.  He's not effective against anyone.

Oh.  7.50 ERA.

[MusicMan]

Trever Miller in 2007 versus Right Handers...370/487/519

I'm reminded of JB's HOF advice to Dierker.  .370 is a very good batting average.

[utastro]

Garner has one move to Soscia's two moves in the ninth.  Chone Figgins was hitting like a lightweight right handed, so the choice was Figgins hitting left handed or right handed and Garner chose right handed.  But Chone Figgins isn't Lance Berkman all of sudden to worry about turning him around (IMHO), so it was a calculated mistake on Garner's part.  But not one without reason.

Wasn't there a discussion about a lefty specialist vs left reliever yesterday.  This seems like the spot where a lefty reliever would have been preferred over the the specialist.  But I don't think anyone could have gotten Figgins out last night.

[Foghorn]

Garner has one move to Soscia's two moves in the ninth.  Chone Figgins was hitting like a lightweight right handed, so the choice was Figgins hitting left handed or right handed and Garner chose right handed.  But Chone Figgins isn't Lance Berkman all of sudden to worry about turning him around (IMHO), so it was a calculated mistake on Garner's part.  But not one without reason.

Horseshit.  There is no reason.  There are 2 options:

(a)  Lidge versus a lefty Figgins
(b)  Miller versus a righty Figgins

Option B NEVER makes sense.

[mihoba]

Horseshit.  There is no reason.  There are 2 options:

(a)  Lidge versus a lefty Figgins
(b)  Miller versus a righty Figgins

Option B NEVER makes sense.

JD mentioned that Chone was 5-5 batting lefty, worth a shot to turn him around. Didn't work.

[pravata]

JD mentioned that Chone was 5-5 batting lefty, worth a shot to turn him around. Didn't work.

Right, Miller didn't do any worse than any other Astros pitcher. 

[MusicMan]

Except that a double down the RF line is worse than any option other than a double down the LF line.

[Foghorn]

JD mentioned that Chone was 5-5 batting lefty, worth a shot to turn him around. Didn't work.

And there is no guarantee Lidge gets him out either.  See Podsedni, Scott.

But the point is not the outcome but rather the decision.  Chode was 5 for 5.  Good for him.  Garner willfully and negligently chose the lesser of 2 options.  He fucked up.  

Garner fucked up.

[pravata]

Except that a double down the RF line is worse than any option other than a double down the LF line.

Not getting into a bitch fest about the result, but who is in right and who is in left?

[MusicMan]

Wasn't Scott in RF, Lee in LF?

[toddthebod]

Alkie.  You are such a fucking pussy.  I'm on the fucking east coast.  I watched every last fucking out.  And I'm at fucking work.  (Not doing anything, but goddamn it, I'm at work).

Here's the recap.  Watching last night's game made me miss Adam Everett.  Bad.  

Loretta has a great bat.  And I can't wait until he's entrenched at 2nd.  But he's got no range at ss.  Bruntlett wasn't any better.  And Carlos Lee is just a terrible defensive outfielder.  The Astros are an ugly defensive team.  When Morgan Ensberg is the best defensive player in the infield, you know that the team is in trouble.  Cause he sucks balls too.

And damn the Angels are fast.  They are just in a different gear than the Astros.

[EasTexAstro]

And there is no guarantee Lidge gets him out either.  See Podsedni, Scott.

But the point is not the outcome but rather the decision.  Chode was 5 for 5.  Good for him.  Garner willfully and negligently chose the lesser of 2 options.  He fucked up.  

Garner fucked up.

Maybe he sent Miller out there to hit him. Miller missed. Not Garner's fault.

[Noe]

And there is no guarantee Lidge gets him out either.  See Podsedni, Scott.

But the point is not the outcome but rather the decision.  Chode was 5 for 5.  Good for him.  Garner willfully and negligently chose the lesser of 2 options.  He fucked up. 

Garner fucked up.

Well, he did what he thought was right at the time, so he fucked up with every intention of getting out of the inning.  If Lidge is the closer, you don't use him in a tie game.  The option would be to leave Borkowski in to face Figgins left handed or Miller to face Figgins left handed.  Dan Wheeler was available, but the move then is Wheeler (RHP) over Borkowski (RHP) and Figgins still bats left handed.  So is Wheeler more apt to get Figgins in your mind than Borkowski or should Garner use his stats line that said Figgins was a weaker right handed bat?

After all that, you can see Garner wasn't asleep at the wheel while managing, he was thinking okay on that one.  But Miller is just horrid when pitching to a right hander... it's like throwing batting practice and that's not good.

[toddthebod]

Though if Lance can muster up the strength to swing the bat, he can muster up the strength to play 1B.  

And he had enough strengh to try stealing second.

Berkman is just about the dumbest fucking baserunner ever.  Doesn't move over to second on the wild pitch.  Was he even watching the play?  And then starts running before the pitcher is even close to throwing the ball to home.  

[pravata]

Wasn't Scott in RF, Lee in LF?

Oh yeah, misread that.  Keep the ball, the fielders, and the tall stack away from Carlos.

[MusicMan]

And damn the Angels are fast.  They are just in a different gear than the Astros.

Comparing the Angels' speed to the Astros is like crossing the streams.  No good can come from it.

[utastro]

Maybe he sent Miller out there to hit him. Miller missed. Not Garner's fault.

I was thinking the same thing.  Just hit the little bastard because he's about to end this thing.

[MusicMan]

Berkman is just about the dumbest fucking baserunner ever.  

I used to think Glen Barker had retired this title.  I may be wrong.

Was he this bad in the past, and my mind is just repressing it?

[Noe]

Comparing the Angels' speed to the Astros is like crossing the streams.  No good can come from it.

They run first to third on everybody, but with Carlos Lee in left, it is exceptionally ugly looking for the defense.  The force the defense to make the play because they're going to put the ball in play regardless.  They dare you to make the play.  And the Astros defensive prowess (or lack thereof) was exposed big time last night.  Pitchers didn't really lose this one, the Angels made the Astros look sick and tired on defense and it hurts to see that happening to a NL team by an AL team.

[Limey]

You cats stayed up til 1am watching this?  How are you at work today?

You just have to fight through the jet lag.  Two more nights to go!

[pravata]

I used to think Glen Barker had retired this title.  I may be wrong.

Was he this bad in the past, and my mind is just repressing it?

I'm thrilled he doesnt run in circles.

[Limey]

Knocked around the guy they're touting as the All Star starting pitcher.  If any of the Astros infielders had the range of a ficus on wheels they'd have won.

lackey looked very ordinary last night.  He got quite a few nice "corner" calls, and the phantom swinging punchout of Lee.  Without those, his night looks even worse than how it's recorded.

[mihoba]

I'm thrilled he doesnt run in circles.

The delayed steal *almost* caught them napping. Berkman needs to realize he is not a puma. I believe he honestly thinks he is quick and agile.

Don't forget his first to third risk he took on Guillen against the M's. Even I know that Guillen has a Clemente like arm.

[pravata]

They run first to third on everybody, but with Carlos Lee in left, it is exceptionally ugly looking for the defense.  The force the defense to make the play because they're going to put the ball in play regardless.  They dare you to make the play.  And the Astros defensive prowess (or lack thereof) was exposed big time last night.  Pitchers didn't really lose this one, the Angels made the Astros look sick and tired on defense and it hurts to see that happening to a NL team by an AL team.

Astros can not make a mistake on defense.  Everything they get to they have to catch cleanly.  Every throw has to be to the right base or the cut off man.  Nothing fancy, take no chances.  Then maybe they'll have a slightly below average defense.  It's either that or mash hell out of the ball and strike everybody out. 

[Noe]

Comparing the Angels' speed to the Astros is like crossing the streams.  No good can come from it.

Which makes Carlos Lee's triple last night even more of an oddity given this context.

[Noe]

Astros can not make a mistake on defense.  Everything they get to they have to catch cleanly.  Every throw has to be to the right base or the cut off man.  Nothing fancy, take no chances.  Then maybe they'll have a slightly below average defense.  It's either that or mash hell out of the ball and strike everybody out. 

Good luck striking out these Angels.  They're 7 guys who look to put the ball in play (approach is a beautiful thing and one that the Angels practice quite well) and one guy who will swing and hit anything you throw at him.  They take their chances in beating the defense, not the pitcher.

[MusicMan]

Which makes Carlos Lee's triple last night even more of an oddity given this context.

A Carlos Lee triple is an oddity in any context other than the death of an outfielder.

[Foghorn]

Well, he did what he thought was right at the time, so he fucked up with every intention of getting out of the inning.  If Lidge is the closer, you don't use him in a tie game.  The option would be to leave Borkowski in to face Figgins left handed or Miller to face Figgins left handed.  Dan Wheeler was available, but the move then is Wheeler (RHP) over Borkowski (RHP) and Figgins still bats left handed.  So is Wheeler more apt to get Figgins in your mind than Borkowski or should Garner use his stats line that said Figgins was a weaker right handed bat?

After all that, you can see Garner wasn't asleep at the wheel while managing, he was thinking okay on that one.  But Miller is just horrid when pitching to a right hander... it's like throwing batting practice and that's not good.

OK, Noe.  We're going to go to fisticuffs here.

"You don't use your closer in a tie game." 

Bull.  Shit.  The game is on the fucking line.  Tied game.  9th inning.  Runner on base.  You bring in your best reliever available to get the fuck outta the inning still tied.  Any other move other than bringing in Lidge is wrong.  period.  End of discussion.  You don't get out of that situation, THAT SITUATION RIGHT THERE, game is over.  Garner was saving his best for a time that never came.  His magic bullet is still the the chamber becuase he never saw a chance to use it.

His plan was to have Trever Miller retire a right handed hitter.  As much a Miller pisses me off right now, and again not to go all Denny Green, but Miller is who we thought he was.  He has exactly one viable skill--pitching to, and retiring, left handed batters.  That is it.  He has nothing else.  Asking him to retire a right handed hitter, with the winning run on base in the 9th inning when you have better options available is CRAZY.  Fuck, I'd rather see Coach Raup out there go after guys than Miller facing a right hander.

Garner put Miller in a position to fail.  That earns a giant blue star FUCK YOU from Foggy.

In-fucking-excusable move from Garner.  Just completely indefensable.

Listen, I am an expert on shitty coaching.  I know shitty moves when I see one.  You don't watch 15+ years of RC Slocum and Bitch Tits Franchione getting owned by anyone with a pedigree more advanced than Pop Warner and not pick up on things. 


ARRRRAGRRRRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!

How the fuck did we lose this game!!!!!

[austro]

ARRRRAGRRRRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!

How the fuck did we lose this game!!!!!

Well, the good news is that we're unlikely to be looking back on October 1st and lamenting the fact that the Stros would be in the playoffs if only they'd held a 5-run lead against the Angels in June.

[Noe]

OK, Noe.  We're going to go to fisticuffs here.

"You don't use your closer in a tie game." 

I forgot to add "on the road".  You manage your bullpen differently on the road.  Inserting your closer in a tie game on the road is basically insuring that you're going to use him for two innings, not just one.  That is minimum because your offense has to score a run the next half inning to insure *only* two innings from your closer. 

[Foghorn]

I forgot to add "on the road".  You manage your bullpen differently on the road.  Inserting your closer in a tie game on the road is basically insuring that you're going to use him for two innings, not just one.  That is minimum because your offense has to score a run the next half inning to insure *only* two innings from your closer. 

Yes, I am cool with using Lidge for one or 2 batters in the 9th and then again in the 10th.  Better that than Trever Miller versus a right hander.  I mean, if trever only walked Faggins, big Vlad was up next and you'd have to use Lidge/Wheeler then.

The decision to use Miller was 100% wrong. 

[pravata]

.... His magic bullet is still the the chamber ....

Anybody read this?

Garner said. "I wanted to see him from the right side instead of the left side. He got a bunch of hits tonight on the left side. You want to keep Willits at first base. That's why I brought a left-hander in."
Link

There was no "magic bullet" for Figgins.  We seemed to have cobbled together the psychotic mirage that Figgins was going to be the 3rd out.  No way was that going to happen, no matter who was pitching.  I've seen Lidge give up hits.  What Garner was trying to do was get Figgins on the other side so he could hold Willits.   That triple was only the 3rd extra base hit of the night.  Keep Willits on 1st, give Figgins his single, runners 1st and 3rd, instead of Figgins gets his single and Willits scores after stealing 2nd.   Then bring in Wheeler for Guillen.  Figgins was the only batter Miller was going to face.

[Noe]

Yes, I am cool with using Lidge for one or 2 batters in the 9th and then again in the 10th.  Better that than Trever Miller versus a right hander.  I mean, if trever only walked Faggins, big Vlad was up next and you'd have to use Lidge/Wheeler then.

The decision to use Miller was 100% wrong. 

The outcome was wrong and perhaps the decision as well... I'll grant that.  But Chone Figgins hits much better left handed so it's a minor strategical move at least so Garner wasn't pulling this out of his arse to me.  And using Lidge was two innings minimum... not just two innings.

[Noe]

Anybody read this?

Garner said. "I wanted to see him from the right side instead of the left side. He got a bunch of hits tonight on the left side. You want to keep Willits at first base. That's why I brought a left-hander in."
Link

There was no "magic bullet" for Figgins.  We seemed to have cobbled together the psychotic mirage that Figgins was going to be the 3rd out.  No way was that going to happen, no matter who was pitching.  I've seen Lidge give up hits.  What Garner was trying to do was get Figgins on the other side so he could hold Willits.   That triple was only the 3rd extra base hit of the night.  Keep Willits on 1st, give Figgins his single, runners 1st and 3rd, instead of Figgins gets his single and Willits scores after stealing 2nd.   Then bring in Wheeler for Guillen.  Figgins was the only batter Miller was going to face.

Caberera.  But the point remains, Garner wasn't without reason to do what he did.  Good, solid, undisputable that only the performance of the pitcher can blamed?  Not entirely, but still it's reason enough to make the move and he's the manager.

[pravata]

Caberera.  But the point remains, Garner wasn't without reason to do what he did.  Good, solid, undisputable that only the performance of the pitcher can blamed?  Not entirely, but still it's reason enough to make the move and he's the manager.

Miller was in to give up another single, not the triple.  Figgins needs to go pee in a cup. 

[Foghorn]

Anybody read this?

Garner said. "I wanted to see him from the right side instead of the left side. He got a bunch of hits tonight on the left side. You want to keep Willits at first base. That's why I brought a left-hander in."
Link

There was no "magic bullet" for Figgins.  We seemed to have cobbled together the psychotic mirage that Figgins was going to be the 3rd out.  No way was that going to happen, no matter who was pitching.  I've seen Lidge give up hits.  What Garner was trying to do was get Figgins on the other side so he could hold Willits.   That triple was only the 3rd extra base hit of the night.  Keep Willits on 1st, give Figgins his single, runners 1st and 3rd, instead of Figgins gets his single and Willits scores after stealing 2nd.   Then bring in Wheeler for Guillen.  Figgins was the only batter Miller was going to face.

Garner is full of shit.  2 outs.  Don't worry about the runner.  Get the guy at the plate and the guy at 1B, or 2B, or 3B doesn't matter.  Fuck the runner at 1B.  Get the guy in the box holding a big hunk of wood.

And fuck "giv[ing] Figgins a single".  If we're resigned to not even attempting to get him out, and instead just insure that his single won't score the winning run from 2nd base, then put the magic bullet in a chamber and blow my head off.

[pravata]

Garner is full of shit.  2 outs.  Don't worry about the runner.  Get the guy at the plate and the guy at 1B, or 2B, or 3B doesn't matter.  Fuck the runner at 1B.  Get the guy in the box holding a big hunk of wood.

And fuck "giv[ing] Figgins a single".  If we're resigned to not even attempting to get him out, and instead just insure that his single won't score the winning run from 2nd base, then put the magic bullet in a chamber and blow my head off.

So you would have gone with plan B.

[Foghorn]

So you would have gone with plan B.

Me?  I wouldn't have been in that situation since I don't let Sampson start the 7th.  But then again, I'm 145-0 from my living room so....

[Limey]

Me?  I wouldn't have been in that situation since I don't let Sampson start the 7th.  But then again, I'm 145-0 from my living room so....

Sampson broke Vlad's bat and got Matthews to ground weakly past an immobile Biggio.  He didn't do a bad job, he was just victimised by the same shit that happened all night.

[Fredia]

i am in the midst of trying to decide whether to fortify myself with a beverage of adult standing or a sleeping pill.. that was a roller coaster ride of such maggnitude i am not sure i am up for another night

[Limey]

that was a roller coaster ride of such maggnitude i am not sure i am up for another night

I watched a little of "Final Destination 3" before the game last night.  A bunch of kids get off a roller coaster that goes on to crash.  Having been cheated, Death catches up with them one by one in even more hideous and horrible ways.  As a metaphor for last night, it's almost perfect.

[JimR]

Me?  I wouldn't have been in that situation since I don't let Sampson start the 7th.  But then again, I'm 145-0 from my living room so....

me either. i asked that night during an in-depth discussion between two pissy, exhausted Popes on whose fault the botched DP was.

Sampson gave up 201 hits in 6 innings. there is NO way he should have started the 7th.

[SeanBergmanRules]

me either. i asked that night during an in-depth discussion between two pissy, exhausted Popes on whose fault the botched DP was.

Sampson gave up 201 hits in 6 innings. there is NO way he should have started the 7th.

The most mind boggling part is that Sampson is routinely removed from games in which he is effective after 80 or 90 pitches.  Now he's up at 100 pitches, ineffective, with no worries about double switches, and he's left in.

[JimR]

Sampson broke Vlad's bat and got Matthews to ground weakly past an immobile Biggio.  He didn't do a bad job, he was just victimised by the same shit that happened all night.

which brings up my other point....

i would not use Biggio any differently than he is being used for the first 6 innings. beginning with the 7th, however, i'd be looking to make a defensive sub at 2B depending on the score. it might cost him one AB a game, but it also might win a game here or there with a better defender.

[Limey]

which brings up my other point....

i would not use Biggio any differently than he is being used for the first 6 innings. beginning with the 7th, however, i'd be looking to make a defensive sub at 2B depending on the score. it might cost him one AB a game, but it also might win a game here or there with a better defender.

Bidge will get #3,000 next homestand.  After that, all bets are off.

Also, while in an AL park, pinch-hitters are virtually irrelevant so defensive moves can be made without fear of shortening the bench.  Gar brain-fucked a few things last night; this being one of them.

[Foghorn]

Bidge will get #3,000 next homestand.  After that, all bets are off.

Also, while in an AL park, pinch-hitters are virtually irrelevant so defensive moves can be made without fear of shortening the bench.  Gar brain-fucked a few things last night; this being one of them.

I'm glad this point was brought up.  Up by 5 with 3 innings left, don't you flip the switch to "play good defense at the expense of offense" mode?  Especially with the heart of the order coming up.

[Limey]

I'm glad this point was brought up.  Up by 5 with 3 innings left, don't you flip the switch to "play good defense at the expense of offense" mode?  Especially with the heart of the order coming up.

Chin at SS, Loretta to 2nd and Bidge on the bench.  The infamous DP probably gets turned because, irregardless of fault, it was an all-arm throw and Loretta's is stronger than Biggio's.  The inning ends on Hoggle's flyout with the score 9-7 Astros.

[JimR]

I'm glad this point was brought up.  Up by 5 with 3 innings left, don't you flip the switch to "play good defense at the expense of offense" mode?  Especially with the heart of the order coming up.

i was nothing but a no-count HS coach, but i swithched to defense in important game after the 5th inning of a 7 inning game.

[pravata]

I'm glad this point was brought up.  Up by 5 with 3 innings left, don't you flip the switch to "play good defense at the expense of offense" mode?  Especially with the heart of the order coming up.

If Biggio can't play 2nd up by 5 in the 7th then they may as well not play him in the field at all.   That brings up a whole nother discussion.  One which does not have an answer.

[Foghorn]

If Biggio can't play 2nd up by 5 in the 7th then they may as well not play him in the field at all.   That brings up a whole nother discussion.  One which does not have an answer.

Its seems that with Qualls out there and runners on base, it would make sense to get a double play combination out there.

I do find it odd that in a game where the DH is allowed, we found room on the field for both Lamb and Biggio.

[homer]

Its seems that with Qualls out there and runners on base, it would make sense to get a double play combination out there.

I do find it odd that in a game where the DH is allowed, we found room on the field for both Lamb and Biggio.

Berkman was sick. It will be different tonight.

[Noe]

Its seems that with Qualls out there and runners on base, it would make sense to get a double play combination out there.

Baseball's version of the four corners and yet another reason to hate the AL and the DH rule!

[pravata]

Its seems that with Qualls out there and runners on base, it would make sense to get a double play combination out there.

I do find it odd that in a game where the DH is allowed, we found room on the field for both Lamb and Biggio.

Can't field it for them.  That dp was tailor made.  Biggio usually turns it.

[Foghorn]

Can't field it for them.  That dp was tailor made.  Biggio usually turns it.

The way they lost the game last night was amazing.  "Ground ball with eyes", "baltimore chops", and other shit going right for the Halos.  bad calls, shitty defense, atom balls, questionable managerial moves hurting the Astros.

In terms of regular season losses, this is the worst one I can recall since the blown lead in the 9th at Shittsburgh back in 2001.

[utastro]

Can't field it for them.  That dp was tailor made.  Biggio usually turns it.

Correction: AE to Biggio usually turns it.

[pravata]

Correction: AE to Biggio usually turns it.

Biggio was Biggio.  Same as ever.

[JimR]

Biggio was Biggio.  Same as ever.

oh, shit. here we go again. same=lousy at the DP. my point was he should have been on the bench after a defensive sub.

[utastro]

Biggio was Biggio.  Same as ever.

Yes but Loretta is not AE and there was a delay in getting the ball to Biggio.  That delay does not usually happen when AE is gliding around the infield.

[pravata]

oh, shit. here we go again. same=lousy at the DP. my point was he should have been on the bench after a defensive sub.

And my point is that Biggio did exactly the same thing he does on every double play.  Loretta was the problem.  If Biggio can't play in the field with a 5 run lead in the 7th, when can he play in the field?

[JimR]

And my point is that Biggio did exactly the same thing he does on every double play.  Loretta was the problem.  If Biggio can't play in the field with a 5 run lead in the 7th, when can he play in the field?

man, i get what you are saying since you have used the same words 1000 times. i believe in defensive substitutions to remove weak defenders. i would consider removing Biggio from EVERY game beginning in the 7th inning. saying that he was the same weak defender he always is does not answer the question for me. maybe 5 runs is too much to do that. it was not last night. with Bruntlett at SS and Loretta at 2B, that DP gets turns. it also strengthens SS.

[pravata]

man, i get what you are saying since you have used the same words 1000 times. i believe in defensive substitutions to remove weak defenders. i would consider removing Biggio from EVERY game beginning in the 7th inning. saying that he was the same weak defender he always is does not answer the question for me. maybe 5 runs is too much to do that. it was not last night. with Bruntlett at SS and Loretta at 2B, that DP gets turns. it also strengthens SS.

I agree.  I think he shouldn't play in the field at all.  But there he is.  If they have him out there in the 1st when the score is 0-0, why not in the 7th up 5?  8th or 9th, closer game, sure, take him out.  But the die is cast.  And yeah the double play gets turned, last time I saw Bruntlett he was a sure handed infielder.

[JimR]

I agree.  I think he shouldn't play in the field at all.  But there he is.  If they have him out there in the 1st when the score is 0-0, why not in the 7th up 5?  8th or 9th, closer game, sure, take him out.  But the die is cast.  And yeah the double play gets turned, last time I saw Bruntlett he was a sure handed infielder.

i'm just sayin'....

i'd do it starting in the 7th. that's just me.

[mihoba]

i'm just sayin'....
i'd do it starting in the 7th. that's just me.

Makes sense to me. I was surprised Biggio was at 2B, but Berkman being sicky-poo messed up my guess for DH.

Bruntlett has to start at SS in my world, and Loretta has to start at 2B or 3B every game. Biggio should be at DH or on the pine in AL parks. No need for defensive replacement in that scenario.

Ten more hits, then put that old glove away. RH pinch hitter off the bench with the occasional start at home. I may be dreaming, but that is what I hope for the rest of this season. Garner will probably not agree.

[JimR]

Makes sense to me. I was surprised Biggio was at 2B, but Berkman being sicky-poo messed up my guess for DH.

Bruntlett has to start at SS in my world, and Loretta has to start at 2B or 3B every game. Biggio should be at DH or on the pine in AL parks. No need for defensive replacement in that scenario.

Ten more hits, then put that old glove away. RH pinch hitter off the bench with the occasional start at home. I may be dreaming, but that is what I hope for the rest of this season. Garner will probably not agree.

nor will Craig

[Noe]

Makes sense to me. I was surprised Biggio was at 2B, but Berkman being sicky-poo messed up my guess for DH.

Bruntlett has to start at SS in my world, and Loretta has to start at 2B or 3B every game. Biggio should be at DH or on the pine in AL parks. No need for defensive replacement in that scenario.

Ten more hits, then put that old glove away. RH pinch hitter off the bench with the occasional start at home. I may be dreaming, but that is what I hope for the rest of this season. Garner will probably not agree.

I think the original plan was for Lee and Biggio to split time as DH for the games in Anaheim and Arlington.  Berkman being sick did put the plan back, so if you look at the two original candidates for DH, you get an idea of who is probably the weakest links on the team defensively.  It's just that Lee plays a corner position and Biggio mans an up the middle spot.  One is not like the other.