Mac Talk

[MRaup]

You mean that wasn't I joke? Damn. I better lower my sarco-meter settings.

IJoke, the new comedy phone from Apple.

[MusicMan]

IJoke, the new comedy phone from Apple.

Ensuring that Microsoft will release a less funny joke that works only with their own jokes and misses the punchline, informing you to upgrade Joke Pack 2.0.

[Limey]

Ensuring that Microsoft will release a less funny joke that works only with their own jokes and misses the punchline, informing you to upgrade Joke Pack 2.0.

Steve Jobs has today cleared the last remaining impediment to my complete switch to Apple at home (work will always be Windows, unfortunately).  The new Boot Camp in Leopard lets you cut back and forth from Mac to Windows without having to reboot.  I have about 10 years of data stored in my Quicken file, and that would have been in danger if I'd tried to switch to Quicken for Mac, which is universally understood to be a vastly inferior product to the Windows version.  Now I can have my Apple and eat it.

I'm also looking forward to being thrown out of MMPUS for live-blogging a game on my iPhone.

[JackAstro]

Steve Jobs has today cleared the last remaining impediment to my complete switch to Apple at home (work will always be Windows, unfortunately).  The new Boot Camp in Leopard lets you cut back and forth from Mac to Windows without having to reboot.  I have about 10 years of data stored in my Quicken file, and that would have been in danger if I'd tried to switch to Quicken for Mac, which is universally understood to be a vastly inferior product to the Windows version.  Now I can have my Apple and eat it.

I'm also looking forward to being thrown out of MMPUS for live-blogging a game on my iPhone.

This has been possible for some time now with Parallels or VMWare. Boot Camp is pleasant enough, but Parallels (particularly the new version 3) is pure, unadulterated awesomeness. Look into it.

[MRaup]

This has been possible for some time now with Parallels or VMWare. Boot Camp is pleasant enough, but Parallels (particularly the new version 3) is pure, unadulterated awesomeness. Look into it.

Link from a coworker...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIApJMzGzDQ

[Limey]

This has been possible for some time now with Parallels or VMWare. Boot Camp is pleasant enough, but Parallels (particularly the new version 3) is pure, unadulterated awesomeness. Look into it.

Thanks, sounds cool but probably a little too high-end for my needs.  The only app. I don't have and won't use on a Mac is Quicken, and I only fire it up once or twice a week.  Boot Camp should be fine for me, now that it doesn't require a restart.

[JackAstro]

Thanks, sounds cool but probably a little too high-end for my needs.  The only app. I don't have and won't use on a Mac is Quicken, and I only fire it up once or twice a week.  Boot Camp should be fine for me, now that it doesn't require a restart.

Just FYI, if you're buying a new Mac, you should be able to get Parallels for between 0 and $10 after rebate, depending on where you get it. Plus, you wouldn't have to wait until October for Leopard. I don't get a commission, I swear.

[Limey]

Just FYI, if you're buying a new Mac, you should be able to get Parallels for between 0 and $10 after rebate, depending on where you get it. Plus, you wouldn't have to wait until October for Leopard. I don't get a commission, I swear.

Thanks, but I'm waiting for Leopard to come out to buy my Mac as it would be a bit silly at this point not to.  Also, I am fed up with having to put third-party apps all over my PC just to get it running and keep it running.  I love Firefox (can't stand IE) but I'll be happy to ditch FF for Safari, especially with the leopard updates.

I'm not a power-user at home, so an iMac with a large HD for music, Office for Mac and Quicken via Boot Camp sounds like heaven to me.  I have trashed and upgraded a disgusting number of PCs while Mrs Limey's original-style iMac* is still perfectly viable (albeit stuck on OS 9) and hums away wirelessly on our Airport network with no fuss whatsoever.  My Dell spends more time self-diagnosing than Jack Putter and is just choked with so much anti-virus and adware that it takes a lifetime to boot up - which you have to all the time because the anti-virus and adware stuff tells you to.

Just so you don't think that I'm a complete bastard, Mrs Limey also has a 20" Intel iMac now.

[Waldo]

I'm not a power-user at home, so an iMac with a large HD for music, Office for Mac and Quicken via Boot Camp sounds like heaven to me.  I have trashed and upgraded a disgusting number of PCs while Mrs Limey's original-style iMac* is still perfectly viable (albeit stuck on OS 9) and hums away wirelessly on our Airport network with no fuss whatsoever.  My Dell spends more time self-diagnosing than Jack Putter and is just choked with so much anti-virus and adware that it takes a lifetime to boot up - which you have to all the time because the anti-virus and adware stuff tells you to.

FWIW, Dell has become the lowest common denominator of computer brands.

[JackAstro]

Excellent. Last bit of unsolicited prodding: when the time comes, consult Macprices.

ETA: Lidge is awesome. Glad to be back on topic.

[Limey]

FWIW, Dell has become the lowest common denominator of computer brands.

It's as much a software problem as hardware.  Vista is a poor, bloated copy of pre-Leopard OS X with all the Windows legacy issues and, while this is an improvement for the Windows community, I prefer to move to the sharp and sleek original.

Plus, I don't believe that the iPhone that I don't yet have will integrate anywhere near as well with MS Outlook as it will with the Mac.

[MusicMan]

FWIW, Dell has become the lowest common denominator of computer brands.

Strangely, I have had no issues with my latest desktop from them.  I have tried my Vista upgrade yet, though.

[ASTROCREEP]

It's as much a software problem as hardware.  Vista is a poor, bloated copy of pre-Leopard OS X with all the Windows legacy issues and, while this is an improvement for the Windows community, I prefer to move to the sharp and sleek original.

Plus, I don't believe that the iPhone that I don't yet have will integrate anywhere near as well with MS Outlook as it will with the Mac.

Are you buying the iPhone on June 28th?

Please review for us.

[Limey]

Are you buying the iPhone on June 28th?

Please review for us.

I plan on getting one asap, but I'm not camping out on the street to do so.  I think I may end up ordering online (and waiting a day or so for shipping) rather than deal with the crowds at the Apple store and the retards at the Cingular store.  I'm an existing Cingular customer with an upgrade available, so I should just have to sign up on line and drop in my SIM card.

[Nate in IA]

Thanks, but I'm waiting for Leopard to come out to buy my Mac as it would be a bit silly at this point not to.  Also, I am fed up with having to put third-party apps all over my PC just to get it running and keep it running.  I love Firefox (can't stand IE) but I'll be happy to ditch FF for Safari, especially with the leopard updates.

I'm not a power-user at home, so an iMac with a large HD for music, Office for Mac and Quicken via Boot Camp sounds like heaven to me.  I have trashed and upgraded a disgusting number of PCs while Mrs Limey's original-style iMac* is still perfectly viable (albeit stuck on OS 9) and hums away wirelessly on our Airport network with no fuss whatsoever.  My Dell spends more time self-diagnosing than Jack Putter and is just choked with so much anti-virus and adware that it takes a lifetime to boot up - which you have to all the time because the anti-virus and adware stuff tells you to.

Just so you don't think that I'm a complete bastard, Mrs Limey also has a 20" Intel iMac now.

Firefox and Thunderbird work just fine and dandy on my Intel iMac.  I use Parallels to run Quicken and some apps that require IE but for the most part, I'm on the Mac.

[Limey]

Firefox and Thunderbird work just fine and dandy on my Intel iMac.  I use Parallels to run Quicken and some apps that require IE but for the most part, I'm on the Mac.

I'm going to stick with Safari unless I find it's missing something totally essential to my on-line experience.  I doubt that I will, and it will be nice to use a properly integrated operating system that doesn't act like a 5-year old kid and bother me with pop-ups whenever it does anything remotely interesting.

[Nate in IA]

I'm going to stick with Safari unless I find it's missing something totally essential to my on-line experience.  I doubt that I will, and it will be nice to use a properly integrated operating system that doesn't act like a 5-year old kid and bother me with pop-ups whenever it does anything remotely interesting.

I dunno.  I'm particularly addicted to various and sundry Firefox extensions (Google especially) such that I haven't explored what Safari can do.

And yes, having a well-behaved OS is verrah nice.

[Limey]

I dunno.  I'm particularly addicted to various and sundry Firefox extensions (Google especially) such that I haven't explored what Safari can do.

And yes, having a well-behaved OS is verrah nice.

The new version of Safari has some nice added features, like allowing you to expand any text entry field and clipping any part of any web-page to make it an auto-refresh dashboard widget (which might be useful for certain baseball-related forums).  It has tabbed browsing too, which isn't new but may be new to Safari and which is my favourite feature of Firefox.  It also claims to be faster than Firefox.

[JackAstro]

The new version of Safari has some nice added features, like allowing you to expand any text entry field and clipping any part of any web-page to make it an auto-refresh dashboard widget (which might be useful for certain baseball-related forums).  It has tabbed browsing too, which isn't new but may be new to Safari and which is my favourite feature of Firefox.  It also claims to be faster than Firefox.

Safari has used tabs since its original beta release, well before Firefox. It's a very nice browser, and very fast, though you may find the occasional need to jump over to Firefox for certain sites that weren't scripted to play nice with Safari. Personally, I use both, for different reasons.

[Gizzmonic]

I'm going to stick with Safari unless I find it's missing something totally essential to my on-line experience.  I doubt that I will, and it will be nice to use a properly integrated operating system that doesn't act like a 5-year old kid and bother me with pop-ups whenever it does anything remotely interesting.

I'm posting this from Camino...it uses the Firefox codebase but it's got a more Maclike user interface.  Seems faster than Safari.

I'm surprised there are so many Mac users on OWA.  I had no idea!

[JackAstro]

I'm posting this from Camino...it uses the Firefox codebase but it's got a more Maclike user interface.  Seems faster than Safari.

I'm surprised there are so many Mac users on OWA.  I had no idea!

You know, I almost mentioned Camino to Limey, but I figured if he wanted to use something with the Gecko engine (and he doesn't, I guess) he wouldn't want to be handicapped by the lack of extension support. I think Camino is a great browser, but it fills a particular little niche that most users don't fall into. Any reason why you chose it?

[Limey]

I'm surprised there are so many Mac users on OWA.  I had no idea!

Mac sales have been increasing while PC sales have been falling - all relatively within an expanding market.  Now that Safari is available for Windows, more people might abandon IE, but I suspect it'll be fighting more with Firefox than MS.

Also, Macs are just so much more attractive.  It doesn't hurt that every "cool" character on TV and in movies seen using a computer, is using an iMac or MacBook.

[JackAstro]

You know, the thread splitting is understandable, but "MacIntosh"? Come on, there hasn't been a Macintosh released since around 1999.

[Andyzipp]

Mac sales have been increasing while PC sales have been falling - all relatively within an expanding market.  Now that Safari is available for Windows, more people might abandon IE, but I suspect it'll be fighting more with Firefox than MS.

Also, Macs are just so much more attractive.  It doesn't hurt that every "cool" character on TV and in movies seen using a computer, is using an iMac or MacBook.

I know that's what I base my computing decisions on.

The problem for Apple (as I see it, anyway) is pricing.  Until they can compete with more entry level units, it's just cheaper for most people to swallow buying a PC. 

The notebooks are very competitive with upper end laptops.  The only thing that kept me from buying one last spring is the lack of support for games like WoW and City of Villians.

[Limey]

I know that's what I base my computing decisions on.

The problem for Apple (as I see it, anyway) is pricing.  Until they can compete with more entry level units, it's just cheaper for most people to swallow buying a PC. 

The notebooks are very competitive with upper end laptops.  The only thing that kept me from buying one last spring is the lack of support for games like WoW and City of Villians.

They are expensive, but so are Ferraris.  If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up...

BTW, it looks like they're phasing out their Mac Minis, which could be construed as an entry-level machine.  It was an odd little bugger though, with some severe hardware deficiencies.

The new Boot Camp within Leopard is supposed to help gamers convert because, apart from the elimination of the need to reboot when switching OSs, the games run at native speed so that there's no performance drag from the software.  Windows on a MacPro is now supposed to run games faster than Windows on a PC.  Also, the 24" iMac is the first to allow an upgrade of the graphics card.

Still may not be enough for many, but slowly, slowly, catchey Gatesy...

[JackAstro]

I know that's what I base my computing decisions on.

The problem for Apple (as I see it, anyway) is pricing.  Until they can compete with more entry level units, it's just cheaper for most people to swallow buying a PC. 

The notebooks are very competitive with upper end laptops.  The only thing that kept me from buying one last spring is the lack of support for games like WoW and City of Villians.

One of the problems absolutely used to be pricing. The bigger hurdle now is changing that perception. From the $600 entry Mac mini through the $4000 Quad-core Xeon Mac Pro, they're all at least competitively priced within their class. Apple computers being overpriced is still a very powerful and widely held opinion, though, and justifiably so. It was true for over 25 years, and the changes in price point haven't been (as) heavily marketed.

[subnuclear]

The only thing that kept me from buying one last spring is the lack of support for games like WoW and City of Villians.

For better or worse, WoW runs fine on OS X.

[Taras Bulba]

For better or worse, WoW runs fine on OS X.

What happened to hiding out in the woods reading a stash of rain damaged Penthouse's and smoking Roi Tans?

[Limey]

One of the problems absolutely used to be pricing. The bigger hurdle now is changing that perception. From the $600 entry Mac mini through the $4000 Quad-core Xeon Mac Pro, they're all at least competitively priced within their class. Apple computers being overpriced is still a very powerful and widely held opinion, though, and justifiably so. It was true for over 25 years, and the changes in price point haven't been (as) heavily marketed.

A 17" iMac is still about $300 more expensive than a similarly equipped Dell (inc. flat screen monitor).

[Limey]

What happened to hiding out in the woods reading a stash of rain damaged Penthouse's and smoking Roi Tans?

You do it virtually.  That way your parents never discover your stash of porn nor smell smoke on your breath.

[JackAstro]

A 17" iMac is still about $300 more expensive than a similarly equipped Dell (inc. flat screen monitor).

Or about $140 more expensive than a similar HP package. And of course, you're paying a premium for the form factor of stuffing an entire desktop computer into the back of a flat-panel monitor. So, that's worth something. And you can get a 17" iMac brand new for $920, not $1000. That's at least competitive, like I said. I buy plenty of non-Apple technology both at the office and at home, so I'm not of the opinion that everyone should be buying Apple, PCs suck, blah blah blah. But I believe we're a lot closer to getting what you pay for with the current Apple line than at any other point along the way.

[BudGirl]

So, when I get ready to buy a new computer for home, someone here will make a recommendation?

[Limey]

Or about $140 more expensive than a similar HP package. And of course, you're paying a premium for the form factor of stuffing an entire desktop computer into the back of a flat-panel monitor. So, that's worth something. And you can get a 17" iMac brand new for $920, not $1000. That's at least competitive, like I said. I buy plenty of non-Apple technology both at the office and at home, so I'm not of the opinion that everyone should be buying Apple, PCs suck, blah blah blah. But I believe we're a lot closer to getting what you pay for with the current Apple line than at any other point along the way.

I agree and, FWIW, my price split was based on $1,000 for the iMac with a 2.0 gig dual core processor.  The Dell chip was dual core, but I couldn't see where it showed the speed.

There's also the factor that Apple make their own software and hardware, so you don't get conflicts within the machine like you do with most PCs.  The Mac OS is also much sleeker, so it just runs faster anyway because it's taking fewer steps than Windows to perform the same function.

You can't really do true comparison because the iMac's form is so different, as you said.  You only need one power socket, for example, not three (one each for PC, screen and speakers).  Plus it comes with a wireless card which I could not see on the Dell.  Basically, it's a better machine so it costs a bit more.

[Limey]

So, when I get ready to buy a new computer for home, someone here will make a recommendation?

Done.

[WulawHorn]

I don't understand this at all. I use IE as a browser, have always had a pc and don't get the vitriol against them

What am I missing (and I'm more or less tech illiterate, but my ipod plugs into my Dell at home and plays just fine for me) in simple language that a tech retard like myself can understand.

[Duman]

Just try firefox and come to the light. 

I haven't converted to apple yet, but I am headed down that path

[Limey]

I don't understand this at all. I use IE as a browser, have always had a pc and don't get the vitriol against them

What am I missing (and I'm more or less tech illiterate, but my ipod plugs into my Dell at home and plays just fine for me) in simple language that a tech retard like myself can understand.

Firefox is one of those apps that just works, unlike most MS apps.  When you try it, it's like a large slap on the forehead.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I've worked on a number computer platforms: PCs, MAC, SUN, LINUX, and IBM AIX platform.

They all have their pros and cons.  People stumping for one over the other are equivalent to discussing political opinions.  The value/rationale depend heavily on personal needs and perspectives. 

I don't own and iPod nor do I really want one.  I'd like to be able to edit video but don't care enough to spend the money it takes to do it well with a PC.  MACs may perform this function well, out of the box, but I'm not buying a system that won't let me get into a shell and see what's really going on under the pretty GUI.  If I had to summarize:

MAC = Easiet, most efficient at integrating apps and OS
PC = Cheapest for both hardware and software, most common
LINUX = most versatile.  Runs on PC hardware, OS looks and feels like a MAC.

Truthfully, I think LINUX is about to sneak up on both Windows and MAC and kick the ever-living crap out of them.  It's cheap, reliable, and is only lacking apps and peripheral-support.  And it's further along that road than I was aware, until recently.  I was given a LINUX box and was amazed at how much it has improved since I first encountered LINUX 10 yrs ago.   It's not going to replace UNIX in the enterprise level server environment, but it's going to dominate those low level server apps in 10 yrs.  As it is, if I can find anything equivalent to MS Office for LINUX, I'm going to move my other PCs to LINUX, even if it pisses off my wife!

It's hard to explain what's wrong with IE because there are so many things.  Try Firefox and you'll see the difference.  Not to worry, Firefox is free if used for personal use. 

[ASTROCREEP]

I agree and, FWIW, my price split was based on $1,000 for the iMac with a 2.0 gig dual core processor.  The Dell chip was dual core, but I couldn't see where it showed the speed.

There's also the factor that Apple make their own software and hardware, so you don't get conflicts within the machine like you do with most PCs.  The Mac OS is also much sleeker, so it just runs faster anyway because it's taking fewer steps than Windows to perform the same function.

You can't really do true comparison because the iMac's form is so different, as you said.  You only need one power socket, for example, not three (one each for PC, screen and speakers).  Plus it comes with a wireless card which I could not see on the Dell.  Basically, it's a better machine so it costs a bit more.

I am a designer (huge photoshop files) AND gamer (Command and Conquer 3), I can get a Dell Laptop that suits my needs
for $1,500 with a 3 YEAR replacement warrenty. (I'm clumsy)

A similarly equipped Mac Laptop will set me back $2,800.

With "Boot Camp" and  A LOT more money in my account i would still pay extra for the Mac.

[Astroholic]

I've worked on a number computer platforms: PCs, MAC, SUN, LINUX, and IBM AIX platform.

They all have their pros and cons.  People stumping for one over the other are equivalent to discussing political opinions.  The value/rationale depend heavily on personal needs and perspectives. 

I don't own and iPod nor do I really want one.  I'd like to be able to edit video but don't care enough to spend the money it takes to do it well with a PC.  MACs may perform this function well, out of the box, but I'm not buying a system that won't let me get into a shell and see what's really going on under the pretty GUI.  If I had to summarize:

MAC = Easiet, most efficient at integrating apps and OS
PC = Cheapest for both hardware and software, most common
LINUX = most versatile.  Runs on PC hardware, OS looks and feels like a MAC.

Truthfully, I think LINUX is about to sneak up on both Windows and MAC and kick the ever-living crap out of them.  It's cheap, reliable, and is only lacking apps and peripheral-support.  And it's further along that road than I was aware, until recently.  I was given a LINUX box and was amazed at how much it has improved since I first encountered LINUX 10 yrs ago.   It's not going to replace UNIX in the enterprise level server environment, but it's going to dominate those low level server apps in 10 yrs.  As it is, if I can find anything equivalent to MS Office for LINUX, I'm going to move my other PCs to LINUX, even if it pisses off my wife!

It's hard to explain what's wrong with IE because there are so many things.  Try Firefox and you'll see the difference.  Not to worry, Firefox is free if used for personal use. 

I have heard that the demise of Microsoft OS is coming.  I will believe it when I see it.

[JackAstro]

MACs may perform this function well, out of the box, but I'm not buying a system that won't let me get into a shell and see what's really going on under the pretty GUI.

Not that it's a great reason to buy a Mac, but it has always been possible to shell into OS X. Working from the command line is completely viable.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I have heard that the demise of Microsoft OS is coming.  I will believe it when I see it.

Oh, I think Longhord alone is killing their market share.  Any PC OS that requires a gig of memory is a joke.  The memory demand for the Vista kernel is larger than that of any UNIX or LINUX operating systems, based on what I've read.  And to cap it off, it doesn't have half the capability of either UNIX or LINUX.  It just looks prettier, although not much better than the LINUX desktop now.

So shell access is possible in OS X?  Interesting.  I'm curious now... 

[Astroholic]

Oh, I think Longhord alone is killing their market share.  Any PC OS that requires a gig of memory is a joke.  The memory demand for the Vista kernel is larger than that of any UNIX or LINUX operating systems, based on what I've read.  And to cap it off, it doesn't have half the capability of either UNIX or LINUX.  It just looks prettier, although not much better than the LINUX desktop now.

I agree with you, but one thing Microsoft excels at is advertising.

[Limey]

I am a designer (huge photoshop files) AND gamer (Command and Conquer 3), I can get a Dell Laptop that suits my needs
for $1,500 with a 3 YEAR replacement warrenty. (I'm clumsy)

A similarly equipped Mac Laptop will set me back $2,800.

With "Boot Camp" and  A LOT more money in my account i would still pay extra for the Mac.

The MacPro's and MacBookPro's are monsters, and priced at a significant premium.  For some high-power users, the performance is worth the premium, but not for many.  The iMac's and MacBook's are much, much cheaper, but still at a premium (as discussed) over equivalent PC products.

[Limey]

It just looks prettier, although not much better than the LINUX desktop now.

It looks like OS X used to look.  There's a classic YouTube clip of someone following Gates' unveiling of Vista, doing exactly the tasks Gates describes, on the old version of OS X.  Vista is a such a rip-off of OS X "Tiger" it's not funny.  It's also not as good, nor as fast, and Tiger's just been updated to Leopard.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

I agree with you, but one thing Microsoft excels at is advertising.

UNIX servers lost ground in the low level server market to NT and now Vista.  LINUX is starting to regain that market.  As the cost of a LINUX server comes down and admins find it's more effective, which eventually it will be based on application viability on the platform, Microsoft will be relegated to a desktop solution I suspect, and primarily for business purposes.  LINUX has some flaws but the vendors for the various LINUX flavors are doing more to improve the shortcomings and eliminate the limitations and flaws, while Microsoft continues to demand more resources and offer less performance/productivity. 

MAC is the premier personal computer.  However, it's superiority does not translate to business functions.  After all, a spreadsheet is a spreadsheet.  But if it comes down in price, Windows will lose even more gorund, because MACs are easier to support, at least from my experience. 

[Limey]

MAC is the premier personal computer.  However, it's superiority does not translate to business functions.  After all, a spreadsheet is a spreadsheet.  But if it comes down in price, Windows will lose even more gorund, because MACs are easier to support, at least from my experience. 

Businesses have too much invested in PC equipment, training, support and software, to justify converting to Mac.  This also ignores the incrementally higher cost of Macs over PCs.

[JSAstrosFan]

Link from a coworker...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIApJMzGzDQ

Impressive. I'm not a Mac user, so I didn't realize they were this far ahead. I use VMWare Workstation every day. VMWare is definitely top notch.

[homer]

They are expensive, but so are Ferraris.  If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up...

Macs compared to Ferraris? Give that shit a rest.

[tophfar]

Macs compared to Ferraris? Give that shit a rest.

a little old, but still relevant

[JackAstro]

So shell access is possible in OS X?  Interesting.  I'm curious now... 

Absolutely.
One of my favorite things is the MacPorts project, which greatly simplifies installing thousands of different open source packages.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Businesses have too much invested in PC equipment, training, support and software, to justify converting to Mac.  This also ignores the incrementally higher cost of Macs over PCs.

That's just it.  Most businesses are moving away from Windows servers.  As I mentioned the key is the cost of a MAC coming down, substantially.  Whether that happens, well that's the big question.  Apple has never been interested in being the cheapest solution.  They like being the "best" solution. 

Most corporate IT infrastructure is moving away from Windows.  If your company isn't, your company deserves the misery they will inevitably experience.  As for training and support, there are hordes of LINUX and UNIX admins.  And from personal experience, I can offer the opinion that LINUX and UNIX are both far easier to understand, trouble-shoot, and fix than any Microsoft OS I've ever supported.  In 8 yrs of AIX admin work, I've never had to tell someone "Try re-booting.  Maybe that will fix it." 

[JaneDoe]

And I thought this thread was about a Gallery Furniture promotion.

[JimR]

can someone, anyone, please post a link to a Geek to English dictionary?

[Limey]

Most corporate IT infrastructure is moving away from Windows.  If your company isn't, your company deserves the misery they will inevitably experience.

My company has just recently upgraded to XP, and to do so they had to upgrade the hardware.  We all got special ordered Dell's with the very, bare, extreme, minimum required to run XP.  My company's IT sucks.  I often have to call India to complain.

[Noe]

can someone, anyone, please post a link to a Geek to English dictionary?

You're going to need a Mac version and a PC version Geek to English dictionary.

[ASTROCREEP]

The MacPro's and MacBookPro's are monsters, and priced at a significant premium.  For some high-power users, the performance is worth the premium, but not for many.  The iMac's and MacBook's are much, much cheaper, but still at a premium (as discussed) over equivalent PC products.

The iMacs and MacBooks can handle most everything but gaming. Larger Photshop files will drag.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

You're going to need a Mac version and a PC version Geek to English dictionary.

Not to be overly sensitive, but this is exactly why I rarely tell people what I do.  I'll go back to my geek closet now.

[JimR]

Not to be overly sensitive, but this is exactly why I rarely tell people what I do. 

they would not understand you anyway.

[BudGirl]

Not to be overly sensitive, but this is exactly why I rarely tell people what I do.  I'll go back to my geek closet now.

I appreciate what you all do.

[JimR]

I appreciate what you all do.

suck up.

[BudGirl]

suck up.

As long as my machine gets fixed first, I don't care.

And if it takes me baking cookies or something, that is what I'll do.

[Limey]

It looks like OS X used to look.  There's a classic YouTube clip of someone following Gates' unveiling of Vista, doing exactly the tasks Gates describes, on the old version of OS X.  Vista is a such a rip-off of OS X "Tiger" it's not funny.  It's also not as good, nor as fast, and Tiger's just been updated to Leopard.

Here's two clips:

the first is someone performing some of Vista's new features on Apple's old OS.

the second is the NY Times' David Pogue explaining why Vista is not a rip off of OS X.

[Waldo]

It seems that I am a late-comer to this thread, but here goes.

I hate OS X with the fire of a thousand supernovas, but with Boot Camp, I would be all over a MacBook Pro if it had two mouse buttons on the computer itself.  The fact that they stick with the one button is unfathomable to me.  I guess it's one of their last bastions of their unique identity now that they are using Intel processors.  I actually had a Mac disciple friend of mine say to me that control-clicking is MORE convenient than right-clicking.  WTF?  Plus, I have had terrible personal experiences with Macs.  My wife had to use an iBook in college, and it was an underpowered POS that burned through three hard drives in its four years in service, and actually SHIPPED with less than the required amount of memory required to run OS X.

The thing I have the most problem with is the OS X releases.  People slam Microsoft all the time for "incremental upgrades" to Windows, but the cost of owning an up-to-date OS X is much more than owning a copy of Windows.  Great business model for Apple because the loyalists keep writing those checks, but it sucked for us because we didn't want to pay $130 to upgrade to 10.3 just to get the newest version of Safari.

Now granted, the iPhone looks cool, and I will probably break down and finally buy an iPod in the near future.  I also do not think Microsoft is infallible (Windows ME should never have happened), and I have not used Vista yet so I can't really comment on that.  But to the poster who was squawking about an OS needing a gig of RAM... welcome to the present.  And to those complaining about Vista being a ripoff of OS X... please.  The vast majority of ideas in the business are ripoffs of, or at least inspired by, something else these days.  Someone does something good and everyone else swoops in to capitalize.  See also Google Video/Youtube, Myspace/Facebook, etc.

Gotta run, so some of my thoughts may be incomplete, but there it is.  Flame away.

[EasTexAstro]

And to those complaining about Vista being a ripoff of OS X... please.  The vast majority of ideas in the business are ripoffs of, or at least inspired by, something else these days.  Someone does something good and everyone else swoops in to capitalize.  See also Google Video/Youtube, Myspace/Facebook, etc.

Where did you get that avatar from?

[JackAstro]

The thing I have the most problem with is the OS X releases.  People slam Microsoft all the time for "incremental upgrades" to Windows, but the cost of owning an up-to-date OS X is much more than owning a copy of Windows.  Great business model for Apple because the loyalists keep writing those checks, but it sucked for us because we didn't want to pay $130 to upgrade to 10.3 just to get the newest version of Safari.

Staying current with OS X doesn't need to be expensive, Waldo. You just need to be nice to the people who have it.

[Waldo]

Staying current with OS X doesn't need to be expensive, Waldo. You just need to be nice to the people who have it.

I'm speaking about conventional means, of course.  Although, if you want to go that route, then you can even be a jackass to the people that have it and download it using torrents.

[Waldo]

I'm surprised there are so many Mac users on OWA.  I had no idea!

If I may be nerdy...

Mac users here are actually the extreme but vocal minority.  They outnumber Opera and Linux users, but that's about it.

Here's how the top ~80% of our site's traffic stacks up so far this month:

34.22% - IE 7 on Windows XP
30.6% - IE 6 on Windows XP
14.08% - Firefox or other Mozilla variant on Windows XP
2.16% - Google search engine
1.91% - Yahoo search engine
1.26% - Safari on OS X

[Astroholic]

If I may be nerdy...

Mac users here are actually the extreme but vocal minority.  They outnumber Opera and Linux users, but that's about it.

Here's how the top ~80% of our site's traffic stacks up so far this month:

34.22% - IE 7 on Windows XP
30.6% - IE 6 on Windows XP
14.08% - Firefox or other Mozilla variant on Windows XP
2.16% - Google search engine
1.91% - Yahoo search engine
1.26% - Safari on OS X

Those stats help make my point.  Microsoft might(might) have inferior products, but corporate america is in no way going to be changing anytime soon.  Example. I am a Microsoft SQL Server developer.  I develop reports using VB, SQL and Reporting Services, etc. In the past I used Crystal Reports as my online reporting tool.  Microsoft has incorporated Reporting Services (pretty good copy of Crystal Reports) directly into SQL server.  This also communicates directly with VB,C +, etc. making it easy to intrigrate all of the solution into one product.  Microsoft now also has made all of these programs free to download (for personal use/development) with their Express versions. 

So, I will be shocked to see the demise of Microsoft servers (over Unix/Linux servers) any time soon (as in my working career life span).  They all have their place.

[Bench]

What is OS?

[Tom Servo]

Steve Jobs has today cleared the last remaining impediment to my complete switch to Apple at home (work will always be Windows, unfortunately).  The new Boot Camp in Leopard lets you cut back and forth from Mac to Windows without having to reboot.  I have about 10 years of data stored in my Quicken file, and that would have been in danger if I'd tried to switch to Quicken for Mac, which is universally understood to be a vastly inferior product to the Windows version.  Now I can have my Apple and eat it.

I'm also looking forward to being thrown out of MMPUS for live-blogging a game on my iPhone.

Sounded like a great feature, but now it's uncertain whether it really will be in Leopard. 
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=313696

For what it's worth, I made the switch to a 24" iMac last October or November (can't remember exactly), and I'll never go back.  Absolutely love my iMac.  Leopard looks like a really nice upgrade.  Love the new Finder (iTunes like interface), Time Machine, etc. 

Might be picking up an Apple TV soon as well.  I really want an iPhone, but I just don't think I can swing it right now.  Might be good, anyway, as I'm sure models with more memory will be out later.  I would still love it now, though.  Oh well, let us know what you think if/when you get one.

[Astroholic]

Sounded like a great feature, but now it's uncertain whether it really will be in Leopard. 
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=313696

For what it's worth, I made the switch to a 24" iMac last October or November (can't remember exactly), and I'll never go back.  Absolutely love my iMac.  Leopard looks like a really nice upgrade.  Love the new Finder (iTunes like interface), Time Machine, etc. 

Might be picking up an Apple TV soon as well.  I really want an iPhone, but I just don't think I can swing it right now.  Might be good, anyway, as I'm sure models with more memory will be out later.  I would still love it now, though.  Oh well, let us know what you think if/when you get one.

I don't want to make it seem like I am opposed to Apple, just as long as it has a superior product for a competitive price.  My wife and I have had 40g iPods for three years.  They have worked flawlessly.  I just bought my daughter a Creative Products Zen V(79.95) and it is really well built and has cool features.  The iTV looks intriguing.  Also might buy an iMac's when the time comes.

Just saying that I don't see a change coming in corporate America any time soon.

[austro]

If I may be nerdy...

Mac users here are actually the extreme but vocal minority.  They outnumber Opera and Linux users, but that's about it.

Here's how the top ~80% of our site's traffic stacks up so far this month:

34.22% - IE 7 on Windows XP
30.6% - IE 6 on Windows XP
14.08% - Firefox or other Mozilla variant on Windows XP
2.16% - Google search engine
1.91% - Yahoo search engine
1.26% - Safari on OS X

Out of curiosity, do these percentages vary appreciably by time of day? I'm thinking that during the daytime, most everything probably does come from XP machines, because that's what nearly everybody uses at work. But evenings might be different, if a significant percentage of site users have Macs for personal machines.

Also, are those numbers for all requests regardless of IP, or do they represent unique IP addresses? If the former, whatever pravata uses is going to represent 25% of the requests right off the bat.

[Gizzmonic]

It seems that I am a late-comer to this thread, but here goes.

I hate OS X with the fire of a thousand supernovas, but with Boot Camp, I would be all over a MacBook Pro if it had two mouse buttons on the computer itself.  The fact that they stick with the one button is unfathomable to me.  I guess it's one of their last bastions of their unique identity now that they are using Intel processors.  I actually had a Mac disciple friend of mine say to me that control-clicking is MORE convenient than right-clicking.  WTF?  Plus, I have had terrible personal experiences with Macs.  My wife had to use an iBook in college, and it was an underpowered POS that burned through three hard drives in its four years in service, and actually SHIPPED with less than the required amount of memory required to run OS X.

Why do you hate Mac OS X?  It's taken some steps backwards in the UI department since Mac OS 9, but it's still better than any Microsoft UI.  I agree with you on the two-button mouse issue, but you can set the trackpad to use right-click (click in a certain area).  And you're right about Apple shipping with not enough RAM-this is one of their biggest faults in my opinion.

The thing I have the most problem with is the OS X releases.  People slam Microsoft all the time for "incremental upgrades" to Windows, but the cost of owning an up-to-date OS X is much more than owning a copy of Windows.  Great business model for Apple because the loyalists keep writing those checks, but it sucked for us because we didn't want to pay $130 to upgrade to 10.3 just to get the newest version of Safari.

What is the cost of having to ring up Microsoft for an activation every time you upgrade the RAM because the system thinks you're a pirate?  I don't like any business that treats me like a criminal.  Not to mention the cost of buying a firewall, anti-spyware, and anti-phishing software and having to keep everything up to date for fear of being infected?

Now granted, the iPhone looks cool, and I will probably break down and finally buy an iPod in the near future.  I also do not think Microsoft is infallible (Windows ME should never have happened), and I have not used Vista yet so I can't really comment on that.  But to the poster who was squawking about an OS needing a gig of RAM... welcome to the present.  And to those complaining about Vista being a ripoff of OS X... please.  The vast majority of ideas in the business are ripoffs of, or at least inspired by, something else these days.  Someone does something good and everyone else swoops in to capitalize.  See also Google Video/Youtube, Myspace/Facebook, etc.

Gotta run, so some of my thoughts may be incomplete, but there it is.  Flame away.

Very good points, Waldo.  I think most of your gripes are legit.  But I think we can all agree, a computer is just a tool, there's no reason too emotional about it.

PS Where is my percentage point for posting from Camino in OS X?

[Gizzmonic]

You know, I almost mentioned Camino to Limey, but I figured if he wanted to use something with the Gecko engine (and he doesn't, I guess) he wouldn't want to be handicapped by the lack of extension support. I think Camino is a great browser, but it fills a particular little niche that most users don't fall into. Any reason why you chose it?

I chose Camino because it renders pages faster than Safari.  Also, I don't like Firefox's interface in Mac OS X, it's rather slapped together and inconsistent.  I don't use Extensions except stuff like Flashblock and Adblock, which you can activate in Camino.

[Limey]

Out of curiosity, do these percentages vary appreciably by time of day? I'm thinking that during the daytime, most everything probably does come from XP machines, because that's what nearly everybody uses at work. But evenings might be different, if a significant percentage of site users have Macs for personal machines.

Good point.  In the evening, activity is mostly limited to the caffeinated ferrets in the GZ.

[MusicMan]

Good point.  In the evening, activity is mostly limited to the caffeinated ferrets in the GZ.

Caffeine... yeah, that's what Alkie's on in the GZ.

[JackAstro]

I chose Camino because it renders pages faster than Safari.  Also, I don't like Firefox's interface in Mac OS X, it's rather slapped together and inconsistent.  I don't use Extensions except stuff like Flashblock and Adblock, which you can activate in Camino.

Yep, that would be the niche - prefer Gecko, don't like Firefox's default interface. I can appreciate that. I had to switch to the GrApple theme for Firefox within the first few minutes because of the default giant colored buttons, which are ridiculous.

[Limey]

Caffeine... yeah, that's what Alkie's on in the GZ.

I think he's on Red Bull and Caipirinha.

[subnuclear]

The G4 laptop and the X server cluster I use at work both have 2-button mice with a scroll wheel.   It functions pretty much the same as my Linux and XP systems. 

I agree that the updates are expensive on OS X, but on my G4 laptop I haven't updated to Panther and it does everything I need it to (for presentations at conferences and to play music/Astros broadcasts on my stereo over my wireless network).   

[austro]

The G4 laptop and the X server cluster I use at work both have 2-button mice with a scroll wheel.   It functions pretty much the same as my Linux and XP systems. 

I agree that the updates are expensive on OS X, but on my G4 laptop I haven't updated to Panther and it does everything I need it to (for presentations at conferences and to play music/Astros broadcasts on my stereo over my wireless network).   

Don't let Selig know that other people might be listening to the sound waves coming from your stereo.  Your mlb.com subscription is for you and you alone.