Is this a nightmare series for Purp?

[Curly]

Ok, so we face Hirsh on Tuesday, and then Buchholz on Thursday with Taveras batting .327.  How excited is Purp that we get to play the Rockies right now.  I think it's fan-fucking-tastic.  They still have to play the game sure, and Hirsh and Buchholz aren't tearing it up, so I get this feeling that somehow we will give them their big break against the Astros instead of doing it for the Astros. 

[Nate in IA]

Ok, so we face Hirsh on Tuesday, and then Buchholz on Thursday with Taveras batting .327.  How excited is Purp that we get to play the Rockies right now.  I think it's fan-fucking-tastic.  They still have to play the game sure, and Hirsh and Buchholz aren't tearing it up, so I get this feeling that somehow we will give them their big break against the Astros instead of doing it for the Astros. 

Just before I moved back to the heartland, I saw the Rockies and Snakes at Coor's Field.   Taveras is playing very well at this point in time with some sharply struck balls, very good defense, and good baserunning.  I think he's the one the Astros are going to miss the most.

[Fredia]

i was just looking and thinking the same thing. somehow former astros alwys come back and bite the astros in the ass

[pravata]

Ok, so we face Hirsh on Tuesday, and then Buchholz on Thursday with Taveras batting .327.  How excited is Purp that we get to play the Rockies right now.  I think it's fan-fucking-tastic.  They still have to play the game sure, and Hirsh and Buchholz aren't tearing it up, so I get this feeling that somehow we will give them their big break against the Astros instead of doing it for the Astros. 

I dont see why the comparison should even be considered.  The Rockies werent going to give up Jennings without getting good players in return.  The Astros needed a good pitcher who had proven he could go innings. Nobody got cheated.  Those 3 are good players, they're likely to have success. 

[Noe]

I dont see why the comparison should even be considered.  The Rockies werent going to give up Jennings without getting good players in return.  The Astros needed a good pitcher who had proven he could go innings. Nobody got cheated.  Those 3 are good players, they're likely to have success. 

I wonder if the Chicago White Sox's Ken Williams has an uneasy feeling watching the three guys in Colorado do well?  No?  Why not... I mean, he blew a deal for getting all three way before the Rockies took them... didn't he?

[Curly]

Right, nobody got cheated directly, but I think we gave up more than we could afford.

[pravata]

Right, nobody got cheated directly, but I think we gave up more than we could afford.

It depends on what happens with Jennings next season.  I think the elbow problem may have complicated the issue.  I think everyone involved realizes Hirsh is likely to be a good pitcher.  Just not what the Astros needed for this season.  And the Astros are decidely a "win now" team.  The judgements on Buchholz and Taveras may have been more qualified, on both sides.  The Rockies signed Steve Finley just in case, to show how confident they were in their new centerfielder.

[kevwun]

I doubt we'll ever miss Buchholz.  He's sucking only slightly less than last year.

[Matt]

Too bad they couldn't convince the Rockies that Burke was an adequate centerfielder with better offense then Willy.

[JSAstrosFan]

I'm really glad that Taveras is doing well, but not because it makes Purp look bad. He looked like a guy who was about to blossom into a quality major leaguer, and it appears to be turning out that way. I was disappointed to see him go. Good for him.

[pravata]

I'm really glad that Taveras is doing well, but not because it makes Purp look bad. He looked like a guy who was about to blossom into a quality major leaguer, and it appears to be turning out that way. I was disappointed to see him go. Good for him.

Many commentators were not.  Couldn't get the ball out of the infield they said, look at his OBP they said.  I think it's a stretch to criticize Purpura for trading Taveras.   I thought he was turning into a very good defensive centerfielder, crucial for the Astros. 

[Curly]

Many commentators were not.  Couldn't get the ball out of the infield they said, look at his OBP they said.  I think it's a stretch to criticize Purpura for trading Taveras.   I thought he was turning into a very good defensive centerfielder, crucial for the Astros. 

And he differs from AE how?

[Noe]

And he differs from AE how?

Everett is not good.  He is the best.  Big difference.

[pravata]

And he differs from AE how?

Adam Everett is the best defensive shortstop in baseball. 

[Curly]

Everett is not just bad at the plate, he's the worst.  Big difference.

(Editor note:  AE isn't the worst, props to Uribe's 0-1 yesterday and dropping to .212)

[pravata]

Everett is not just bad at the plate, he's the worst.  Big difference.

(Editor note:  AE isn't the worst, props to Uribe's 0-1 yesterday and dropping to .212)

So that tells me that they put a value on a shortstop who has proven to be the best defensive shortstop in the majors as opposed to a centerfielder who might become a good centerfielder. 

[Noe]

Everett is not just bad at the plate, he's the worst.  Big difference.

(Editor note:  AE isn't the worst, props to Uribe's 0-1 yesterday and dropping to .212)

You asked about defense.  HUGE difference.

[Gizzmonic]

Ok, so we face Hirsh on Tuesday, and then Buchholz on Thursday with Taveras batting .327.  How excited is Purp that we get to play the Rockies right now.  I think it's fan-fucking-tastic.  They still have to play the game sure, and Hirsh and Buchholz aren't tearing it up, so I get this feeling that somehow we will give them their big break against the Astros instead of doing it for the Astros. 

It might be more prudent to say "Could this be a nightmare series for Purp"?  Hirsch seems to be at least as good as the back end of the Astros rotation (that being everyone not named Oswalt). 

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=2&teamPosCode=1&compare.x=&timeFrame=1&c_id=hou&section2=2&isCompare=true&box4=XXXX124315houX&sitSplit=&checkBoxTotal=0&venueID=&box3=XXXX434643houX&statSet2=1&box2=XXXX407298houX&box6=XXXX448200XXXX&playerLocator=Sampson&subScope=pos&box1=XXXX444865colX&baseballScope=NL&timeSubFrame=2007&compare.x=&sortByStat=H&

Tavares, the centerpiece of the trade, has improved both offensively and defensively.  I still don't think the Astros got a good return in exchange for his talent.  Pence playing an adequate CF has taken out some of the sting, but imagine how much better the OF would be with Pence playing RF (although you'd have to watch for collisions with those two).

Bucholz showed some flashes last year, but it appears he'll never be able to get it together.  He's marginal talent.

On the Astros side, Jennings, the supposed innings-eater, has not done his job so far.  The trade also showed a good deal of faith in Luke Scott, who's playing a below average RF and hitting poorly as well.  I believe he will come around, but right now it looks like the Rockies got over on old Timmy P.

[WulawHorn]

Was talking with my dad about this at the game yesterday when he brought up Wily T...

I think that the move made sense then and now.  They wanted to give burke a legit chance to see if he was going to be worthy of replacing Bidge after 3,000.  They were confidenct in Pence being the everyday CF for 10 years at MMP.

If Burke hadn't shat the bed we'd see Pence coming up around July 1 to take his place in CF while Bidge slides over to make way for Burke. Not a bad plan, and half right, imo.

Losing Wily T wasn't what really hurt imo. Hirsch could be a big blow in the future, but not if other prospects pan out.  Buckholtz looks like not much loss.

All that being said, I'm sure those three will stick it straight up H-town's ass this series, as wily goes 10-15 with steals aplenty and Hirsch and Buck look like Cy Young's in the making.

But that still doesn't mean the trade was necesarily wrong in my mind.

[Curly]

I did not ask about defense directly, I was more or less comparing the two players.  My opinion has always been that AE kills us at the plate, I never thought Taveras killed us in the field, in fact when a ball was hit in the gap or deep to CF I had confidence that those balls were going to die in Willy T's mit...much in the way I think about a ball hit to AE now.  But when AE steps into the box, that's my queue for an extended end of inning bio brake, never thought that about Taveras.

[Noe]

I did not ask about defense directly, I was more or less comparing the two players.

pravata said "good defensively", you asked about AE, I said specifically that when you speak of AE, "good" is a huge understatement.  I don't know why we need to continue with anything else here.  Defense has got nothing to do with batting averages and such.

[Curly]

pravata said "good defensively", you asked about AE, I said specifically that when you speak of AE, "good" is a huge understatement.  I don't know why we need to continue with anything else here.  Defense has got nothing to do with batting averages and such.

It has to do with attempting to be a complete player, which AE is not, he is totally one sided.

[Noe]

It has to do with attempting to be a complete player, which AE is not, he is totally one sided.

He is what he is to be a shortstop in the major leagues.  If he were a first baseman, he would be out of baseball.  You know this, why are we going into this debate about the best shortstop in the majors?

[pravata]

It has to do with attempting to be a complete player, which AE is not, he is totally one sided.

Which compensates for several players the Astros have who are also almost totally one sided as well.

[WulawHorn]

Which compensates for several players the Astros have who are also almost totally one sided as well.

The problem is they have one sided players (offensively) where these player's aren't exhibiting that side.

Scott (below avg glove/arm in right) not getting it done.  Bidge- way below average glove/arm at 2b.  Lamb if he's trying to play 3rd.  Even Loretta is below average more or less anywhere you want to play him.

Other than Loretta the stros ain't getting that one sided offense out of those guys

[HudsonHawk]

And he differs from AE how?

AE has a different agent.  All the difference in the world.

[JimR]

Everett is not just bad at the plate, he's the worst.  Big difference.

(Editor note:  AE isn't the worst, props to Uribe's 0-1 yesterday and dropping to .212)

what does this have to do with being a SS?

[Curly]

Offense, the other part of baseball.

[Noe]

Offense, the other part of baseball.

Okay, if you want to talk about offense, what is the problem with a light hitting #7 or #8 hitter in the lineup?

[Froback]

Okay, if you want to talk about offense, what is the problem with a light hitting #7 or #8 hitter in the lineup?

But don't you see, if he was hitting like .300 and knocking 35 HRs a year, then the team could handle having a 3B who wants to watch pitches go by instead of swinging at them like he did in the year he hit .300 and knocked 35HRs...

[Curly]

Light hitter .260-.270 outstanding .240-.259 average to good .230-239 weak below that, sitting on the wood not swinging it.

[Curly]

But don't you see, if he was hitting like .300 and knocking 35 HRs a year, then the team could handle having a 3B who wants to watch pitches go by instead of swinging at them like he did in the year he hit .300 and knocked 35HRs...

Who the fuck expects to have a .300 35hr SS?

[Froback]

Who the fuck expects to have a .300 35hr SS?

Probably the same asshole who wants to blame the #7 or 8 hitter in an NL line-up for the inability of the team to score runs.

[ASTROCREEP]

It might be more prudent to say "Could this be a nightmare series for Purp"?  Hirsch seems to be at least as good as the back end of the Astros rotation (that being everyone not named Oswalt). 

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=2&teamPosCode=1&compare.x=&timeFrame=1&c_id=hou&section2=2&isCompare=true&box4=XXXX124315houX&sitSplit=&checkBoxTotal=0&venueID=&box3=XXXX434643houX&statSet2=1&box2=XXXX407298houX&box6=XXXX448200XXXX&playerLocator=Sampson&subScope=pos&box1=XXXX444865colX&baseballScope=NL&timeSubFrame=2007&compare.x=&sortByStat=H&

Tavares, the centerpiece of the trade, has improved both offensively and defensively.  I still don't think the Astros got a good return in exchange for his talent.  Pence playing an adequate CF has taken out some of the sting, but imagine how much better the OF would be with Pence playing RF (although you'd have to watch for collisions with those two).

Bucholz showed some flashes last year, but it appears he'll never be able to get it together.  He's marginal talent.

On the Astros side, Jennings, the supposed innings-eater, has not done his job so far.  The trade also showed a good deal of faith in Luke Scott, who's playing a below average RF and hitting poorly as well.  I believe he will come around, but right now it looks like the Rockies got over on old Timmy P.

The Jennings trade wasn't bad, putting all your eggs in the Burke basket...bad.

[Noe]

Light hitter .260-.270 outstanding .240-.259 average to good .230-239 weak below that, sitting on the wood not swinging it.

For a #7 or #8?  Are you thinking they're in the AL?  Again, if he's a shortstop and he is the best... not a good one, but the *BEST* shortstop in the majors... it's hard to say he needs to sit unless he is my #3 and then I'd agree.  BTW - what is the threshold for a #3 hitter any way, in your humble opinion?

[legs_of_eggs]

the deal was fine as long as jennings gets an extension as an astro. willy is a tom goodwin at best, buchholz hasnt been any better than last year and hirsh still looks immature.

[jaklewein]

It might be more prudent to say "Could this be a nightmare series for Purp"?  Hirsch seems to be at least as good as the back end of the Astros rotation (that being everyone not named Oswalt). 

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?statType=2&teamPosCode=1&compare.x=&timeFrame=1&c_id=hou&section2=2&isCompare=true&box4=XXXX124315houX&sitSplit=&checkBoxTotal=0&venueID=&box3=XXXX434643houX&statSet2=1&box2=XXXX407298houX&box6=XXXX448200XXXX&playerLocator=Sampson&subScope=pos&box1=XXXX444865colX&baseballScope=NL&timeSubFrame=2007&compare.x=&sortByStat=H&

Tavares, the centerpiece of the trade, has improved both offensively and defensively.  I still don't think the Astros got a good return in exchange for his talent.  Pence playing an adequate CF has taken out some of the sting, but imagine how much better the OF would be with Pence playing RF (although you'd have to watch for collisions with those two).

Bucholz showed some flashes last year, but it appears he'll never be able to get it together.  He's marginal talent.

On the Astros side, Jennings, the supposed innings-eater, has not done his job so far.  The trade also showed a good deal of faith in Luke Scott, who's playing a below average RF and hitting poorly as well.  I believe he will come around, but right now it looks like the Rockies got over on old Timmy P.

Pence in RF?  Hell no. 

[Tralfaz]

Nightmare series?  Doubtful.  Tim Purpura's re-occuring nightmare is the current state of Lance Berkman's 07 campaign.   

[Gizzmonic]

You think Burke or Scott play a better RF than Pence?

Pence in RF?  Hell no. 

[pravata]

the deal was fine as long as jennings gets an extension as an astro. willy is a tom goodwin at best, buchholz hasnt been any better than last year and hirsh still looks immature.

The intention of the trade was to get an established pitcher who they could rely on for 200 innings.  Jennings injury came out of the blue.  He's thrown close to 200 innings every season except when he broke his finger.   

[ybbodeus]

"If you don't eat your pudding, you can't have any meat!  How can you have any meat, if you don't eat your pudding?"

[jaklewein]

You think Burke or Scott play a better RF than Pence?

Burke, no.  Scott, probably not.  So what?  Is it a crime to want a RF with an above average arm?

[JimR]

Burke, no.  Scott, probably not.  So what?  Is it a crime to want a RF with an above average arm?

Pence has a very strong arm.

[pravata]

Pence has a very strong arm.

Where's he keeping it?  Teams are running wild on him.

[BizidyDizidy]

Where's he keeping it?  Teams are running wild on him.

Are you watching the games? The Griffey play that got you started on this was a ball on the track in CF.

[JimR]

Where's he keeping it?  Teams are running wild on him.

he is horribly inaccurate because of that sidearm throw.

[pravata]

Are you watching the games? The Griffey play that got you started on this was a ball on the track in CF.

Wrong.  Runner scored from 2nd on a medium single to center in AZ.  Cardinals ran too.  No one is hesitating on any fly ball to center.  In any case, how many times have you seen a runner advance from 1st on any flyball to center when the fielder is facing the infield? 

[jaklewein]

Pence has a very strong arm.

Everything I've ever read about the kid in the minors suggested that he had a below average arm that would all but limit him to playing LF the majors.  That said, I'm pretty sure I remember Jacksonian mentioning (when, where...I have no idea) that he had improved his arm strength to the point that CF might be an option, but I never got the idea that he had improved to the point that you would consider his arm as being "very strong".  That said, your post has been filed away.  I'm interested to see what others have to say as well.

[JimR]

Everything I've ever read about the kid in the minors suggested that he had a below average arm that would all but limit him to playing LF the majors.  That said, I'm pretty sure I remember Jacksonian mentioning (when, where...I have no idea) that he had improved his arm strength to the point that CF might be an option, but I never got the idea that he had improved to the point that you would consider his arm as being "very strong".  That said, your post has been filed away.  I'm interested to see what others have to say as well.

what i saw in RR during three home series was a strong, very wild throwing arm. "very strong" might have been too much, but he did not show a weak arm. he had no idea where it was going, though, after it left his hand.

[Jacksonian]

Everything I've ever read about the kid in the minors suggested that he had a below average arm that would all but limit him to playing LF the majors.  That said, I'm pretty sure I remember Jacksonian mentioning (when, where...I have no idea) that he had improved his arm strength to the point that CF might be an option, but I never got the idea that he had improved to the point that you would consider his arm as being "very strong".  That said, your post has been filed away.  I'm interested to see what others have to say as well.

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=424.0

"Hunter's arm is below average. According to David Lakey, the Astros director of scouting, that limits Hunter to patrolling left-field." That was June of 2004. 

I've also posted the link to the mlb.com draft page where you can see him throwing from left field while at UTA.

Hunter has worked very hard with the Astros development guys to be a better defender and improve his arm strength over the past 2 1/2 years.

[jaklewein]

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=424.0

"Hunter's arm is below average. According to David Lakey, the Astros director of scouting, that limits Hunter to patrolling left-field." That was June of 2004. 

I've also posted the link to the mlb.com draft page where you can see him throwing from left field while at UTA.

Hunter has worked very hard with the Astros development guys to be a better defender and improve his arm strength over the past 2 1/2 years.

Alright, I gotta know....how in the hell do you always know when someone's dropping your name?  I mean, I could understand if you replied a couple of hours after the fact, but within 5-10 minutes...every time?  Inconceivable!

[davek]

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=424.0

"Hunter's arm is below average. According to David Lakey, the Astros director of scouting, that limits Hunter to patrolling left-field." That was June of 2004. 

I'm not sure I wouldn't continue to rate Pence as having a below average arm.

I think Jim is entirely correct, he appears to have the requisite strength for at least a centerfield arm but he has no clue where the ball is going...

During a game a couple of weeks ago he missed the cutoff man by at least 20 feet to the side... If the opposing teams weren't so busy taking extra bases it would almost be comical...

[Jacksonian]

Alright, I gotta know....how in the hell do you always know when someone's dropping your name?  I mean, I could understand if you replied a couple of hours after the fact, but within 5-10 minutes...every time?  Inconceivable!

Well, not every time.  At the moment I'm able to lurk, a lot.

[Gizzmonic]

Burke, no.  Scott, probably not.  So what?  Is it a crime to want a RF with an above average arm?

No, but as a consequence of the Jennings trade, the Astros have 2 LF and a 1B in their outfield as it is.  Their defense would be considerably improved with Tavares playing CF and Pence playing RF.  He doesn't have a true right fielder's arm, but I'd wager it's better than Scott's, and it's definitely better than Burke's.  Personally, I think CF should be a defense first position for the Astros, 3rd only to C and SS, primarily because of the dimensions of Minute Maid Park.  That's one of the big reasons I didn't like the Jennings trade.  I think you can get away with playing guys out of position at RF...of course you'd rather have someone with a great arm out there, but it's not a premium defensive position.

 

[ASTROCREEP]

No, but as a consequence of the Jennings trade, the Astros have 2 LF and a 1B in their outfield as it is.  Their defense would be considerably improved with Tavares playing CF and Pence playing RF.  He doesn't have a true right fielder's arm, but I'd wager it's better than Scott's, and it's definitely better than Burke's.  Personally, I think CF should be a defense first position for the Astros, 3rd only to C and SS, primarily because of the dimensions of Minute Maid Park.  That's one of the big reasons I didn't like the Jennings trade.  I think you can get away with playing guys out of position at RF...of course you'd rather have someone with a great arm out there, but it's not a premium defensive position.

 

Just curious. WHO makes the decision to start the year with Burke in CF. Can Garner say HELL NO he is not a major league outfielder!?

If it were up to Garner I have a hard time believing Burke would have seen any time in CF. Except for some kind of late inning PH type thing.

[BizidyDizidy]

Wrong.  Runner scored from 2nd on a medium single to center in AZ.  Cardinals ran too.  No one is hesitating on any fly ball to center.  In any case, how many times have you seen a runner advance from 1st on any flyball to center when the fielder is facing the infield? 

Sorry, didn't mean to sound as jerky as it did; I haven't been able to see a lot of games lately but I was at the Griffey one and was just surprised to hear you bring up Pence's arm.

Maybe the answer is that his arm is strong enough but wild enough that it makes sense to run? Doesn't matter if you have a cannon if you cant hit the bag (or the cutoff)

[davek]

He doesn't have a true right fielder's arm, but I'd wager it's better than Scott's.

Better in what way?... Stronger?... Maybe... But it's not strong enough so that he can miss third base by 5 or 10 feet and the tag will still be made in time...

[pravata]

Just curious. WHO makes the decision to start the year with Burke in CF. Can Garner say HELL NO he is not a major league outfielder!?

If it were up to Garner I have a hard time believing Burke would have seen any time in CF. Except for some kind of late inning PH type thing.

They were probably thinking about the 38 games he played in CF last season and the 66 games he's played the position in his career.   Not great, but they probably thought his hitting would compensate...

[pravata]

Sorry, didn't mean to sound as jerky as it did; I haven't been able to see a lot of games lately but I was at the Griffey one and was just surprised to hear you bring up Pence's arm.

Maybe the answer is that his arm is strong enough but wild enough that it makes sense to run? Doesn't matter if you have a cannon if you cant hit the bag (or the cutoff)

If the outfielder is running with his back turned, I can see advancing.  But facing the field, he should be able to stop a runner from 1st.  Since the Diamondbacks series everyone is just running on him with no hesitation. (eta) Here's a nightmare scenario, Taveras on 2nd, 1 out, fly ball to not quite the warning track in center.  I see Taveras trying to score.

[Noe]

Just curious. WHO makes the decision to start the year with Burke in CF. Can Garner say HELL NO he is not a major league outfielder!?

If it were up to Garner I have a hard time believing Burke would have seen any time in CF. Except for some kind of late inning PH type thing.

He played CF for Willy Taveras for about a month in 2006.  He also batted lead off.  Burke was helping the team climb back from mediocrity at the time and he did well.  It was not out of blind faith that they put him in CF for 2007.  That Burke carried his offense out to the field with him is on Burke moreso than the decision to put him out there.

[Noe]

They were probably thinking about the 38 games he played in CF last season and the 66 games he's played the position in his career.   Not great, but they probably thought his hitting would compensate...

Damn, beat me by a nano-second!

[pravata]

Damn, beat me by a nano-second!

HAH! Oh, I meant "MINE!"

[ASTROCREEP]

He played CF for Willy Taveras for about a month in 2006.  He also batted lead off.  Burke was helping the team climb back from mediocrity at the time and he did well.  It was not out of blind faith that they put him in CF for 2007.  That Burke carried his offense out to the field with him is on Burke moreso than the decision to put him out there.

I was really asking to find out how much power a Manager has in these type of situations.

I think Burke would be fine in a INDOOR Wrigley. But the Astros need more D in center. At best he a streaky hitter. Second base is the only place for him. I'd rather have one more year of Loretta at second than 3 years of Burke.

I think Pence can learn to be more accurate as he matures.

[ASTROCREEP]

HAH! Oh, I meant "MINE!"

Do you guys dress alike too?

[pravata]

Do you guys dress alike too?

I didn't expect that my observation would be unique.  Any moderately attentive person would reach the same conclusion.

[MikeyBoy]

He played CF for Willy Taveras for about a month in 2006.  He also batted lead off.  Burke was helping the team climb back from mediocrity at the time and he did well.  It was not out of blind faith that they put him in CF for 2007.  That Burke carried his offense out to the field with him is on Burke moreso than the decision to put him out there.

One nit to pick, Noe. Burke was 1 for 15 batting lead off last season. When he was playing CF for Taveras during that stretch, he primarily batted 2nd. He was also part of the revolving door at the 3-hole and close to a third of his at-bats were batting 6th, where he hit quite well.

I realize this has little to do with your point. Carry on.

[MikeyBoy]

Pence...playing RF.  He doesn't have a true right fielder's arm, but I'd wager it's better than Scott's, and it's definitely better than Burke's. 

Actually, I've been very impressed with Scott's arm. In the games I have been to, he has taken good approaches to the ball and made strong, accurate throws.

[Rammer33]

do you folks think Pence can hold down CF for the near future or do you think it is an issue that needs addressing in the off season or sooner ...

Obviously, I don’t think Pence has been good defensively but there has been some improvement and it seems to me he might be able to grow enough into the position for the short term (meaning 2 or 3 years) to become an adequate defender (although I don't think his defensive ceiling is any higher than that) … given the expense and difficulty to get a CF who provides some offense and solid D - and the seemingly much easier task of finding offense in right … do you see Pence in center as a potential solution for a couple of years … until a better CF solution can be developed or signed ...

[ASTROCREEP]

I didn't expect that my observation would be unique.  Any moderately attentive person would reach the same conclusion.

it was a joke, I'm sure you two disagree about some things.

[Andyzipp]

do you folks think Pence can hold down CF for the near future or do you think it is an issue that needs addressing in the off season or sooner ...

Obviously, I don’t think Pence has been good defensively but there has been some improvement and it seems to me he might be able to grow enough into the position for the short term (meaning 2 or 3 years) to become an adequate defender (although I don't think his defensive ceiling is any higher than that) … given the expense and difficulty to get a CF who provides some offense and solid D - and the seemingly much easier task of finding offense in right … do you see Pence in center as a potential solution for a couple of years … until a better CF solution can be developed or signed ...

I don't think there's an option.  You have a $100 million man in left until he can't walk anymore.  So Pence is going to be in Center or Right, regardless of his arm, for as long as he's under club control.

[ASTROCREEP]

do you folks think Pence can hold down CF for the near future or do you think it is an issue that needs addressing in the off season or sooner ...

Obviously, I don’t think Pence has been good defensively but there has been some improvement and it seems to me he might be able to grow enough into the position for the short term (meaning 2 or 3 years) to become an adequate defender (although I don't think his defensive ceiling is any higher than that) … given the expense and difficulty to get a CF who provides some offense and solid D - and the seemingly much easier task of finding offense in right … do you see Pence in center as a potential solution for a couple of years … until a better CF solution can be developed or signed ...

Depends on what Luke does the rest of the year.


That being said if the Astros can somehow get Ichiro or Crawford then The Force will no longer be with us. Or the Force will be riding the bench.

[Noe]

Do you guys dress alike too?

No, but we do wear the same type of aluminum cap... you know, to channel in the comm from the Mother Ship.

[Noe]

One nit to pick, Noe. Burke was 1 for 15 batting lead off last season. When he was playing CF for Taveras during that stretch, he primarily batted 2nd. He was also part of the revolving door at the 3-hole and close to a third of his at-bats were batting 6th, where he hit quite well.

I realize this has little to do with your point. Carry on.

Yes, good catch.  I do appreciate pick-me-ups like this.  My observations are usually tainted by what the person does, the approach used and so forth.  Basically, you're correct, he hit quite well as a top of the lineup hitter.  Sprayed the ball gap to gap and quit trying to hit underneath everything like he was as a #6.

Thanks

[jaklewein]

I don't think there's an option.  You have a $100 million man in left until he can't walk anymore.  So Pence is going to be in Center or Right, regardless of his arm, for as long as he's under club control.

Hate to point out the obvious, but he could be traded as well.

[Andyzipp]

Hate to point out the obvious, but he could be traded as well.

He's one of Drayton's guys.  He's not going to be traded for at least 3 seasons.