From SI.com

[Jose Cruz III]

Forgive me if this has already been posted

According to Major League Baseball's list of 174 failed drug tests, which was obtained by SI.com, the Mariners organization has the most failed tests: 13 since 2005, the first year negative test results brought suspensions. The Mets' organization is second with 10 failed tests, followed by Texas with nine and Oakland, San Francisco, San Diego, the Cubs and Yankees with eight apiece. Every organization has had at least one failure. But the award for the fewest failures goes to Houston and Boston, with just one apiece, followed by Milwaukee and Florida, with two each, and Detroit, Tampa Bay and Washington with three failures.

One revelation from the testing has been the surprising prevalence of usage among pitchers compared to hitters. Pitchers have accounted for 97 failures to 77 for all position players. Only 16 tests were failed by major leaguers; minor leaguers accounted for the remaining 158.

The last two years, when failures were separated into drug-type categories, 45 failures were due to performance-enhancing drugs, nine to drugs of abuse and one for a failure to test.


Also fromt he same article........


• Craig Biggio is one whose Hall-of-Fame hat is obvious. His only request should be that the hat be as dirty as the one he played in.

Just thought this was interesting about the drug tests.

[Noe]

Forgive me if this has already been posted

According to Major League Baseball's list of 174 failed drug tests, which was obtained by SI.com, the Mariners organization has the most failed tests: 13 since 2005, the first year negative test results brought suspensions. The Mets' organization is second with 10 failed tests, followed by Texas with nine and Oakland, San Francisco, San Diego, the Cubs and Yankees with eight apiece. Every organization has had at least one failure. But the award for the fewest failures goes to Houston and Boston, with just one apiece, followed by Milwaukee and Florida, with two each, and Detroit, Tampa Bay and Washington with three failures.

One revelation from the testing has been the surprising prevalence of usage among pitchers compared to hitters. Pitchers have accounted for 97 failures to 77 for all position players. Only 16 tests were failed by major leaguers; minor leaguers accounted for the remaining 158.

The last two years, when failures were separated into drug-type categories, 45 failures were due to performance-enhancing drugs, nine to drugs of abuse and one for a failure to test.


Also fromt he same article........


• Craig Biggio is one whose Hall-of-Fame hat is obvious. His only request should be that the hat be as dirty as the one he played in.

Just thought this was interesting about the drug tests.

Don't know how much this plays into the testing results, but the Boston RedSox and Houston Astros are known as "God squad" clubhouses, meaning they have a lot of character guys who are regular attendees to the FCA chapel meetings.

For whatever it's worth...

[Alkie]

Don't know how much this plays into the testing results, but the Boston RedSox and Houston Astros are known as "God squad" clubhouses, meaning they have a lot of character guys who are regular attendees to the FCA chapel meetings.

For whatever it's worth...

Because Christians don't take steroids?

[Noe]

Because Christians don't take steroids?

Character guys most likely won't.  Not all Christians have character, but the ones who do are very, very, very, very good at maintaining that integrity.  Like I said, I'm not sure how it pertains to the steroids issue, but having character helps in some things, if indeed theses guys are high character guys.

[Zac D]

Because Christians don't take steroids?

Makes you wonder where the Rockies fall on this list.

[Duman]

Most of these failed test have been in the minors.  I have also seen some reporting about how players from poorer countries (Dominican Republic especially) are vulnerable to trying what someone gives them. 

I think Houston's spot on the low end of the testing totem pole says some thing about how well they are running their Dom Rep & Ven. academies. 

The one positive test in the system was a college kid.

[ASTROCREEP]

Character guys most likely won't.  Not all Christians have character, but the ones who do are very, very, very, very good at maintaining that integrity.  Like I said, I'm not sure how it pertains to the steroids issue, but having character helps in some things, if indeed theses guys are high character guys.

Around 90 percent of prison inmates claim a higher power. Doesn't mean that all those that claim a higher power are criminals. And vise versa.

[Noe]

Around 90 percent of prison inmates claim a higher power. Doesn't mean that all those that claim a higher power are criminals. And vise versa.

If that is what I said, then I should be shot.  I said the "Houston Astros", not the entire freaking world or everyone who professes to be Christian.  I simply made a possible... again... possible... correlation.  You guys don't like it.  Fine.  But don't ascribe something to me that is beyond the scope of what I actually said.  It was merely my opinion that something may be there in terms of character guys and how McLane has made it a part of the team philosophy to bring guys into the fold with integrity... Christian or not.

But the majority of the team is a professed Christian group that claim integrity as part of their everyday lives.  Correlation?  I dunno, maybe.  That is all I said.

[pravata]

If that is what I said, then I should be shot.  I said the "Houston Astros", not the entire freaking world or everyone who professes to be Christian.  I simply made a possible... again... possible... correlation.  You guys don't like it.  Fine.  But don't ascribe something to me that is beyond the scope of what I actually said.  It was merely my opinion that something may be there in terms of character guys and how McLane has made it a part of the team philosophy to bring guys into the fold with his integrity... Christian or not.

And to run them out of the fold as well.  It's a factor in who the Astros acquire.  As with many other things about this team, if you don't understand how they run, as a fan, you're going to be confused and frustrated.

[Noe]

And to run them out of the fold as well.  It's a factor in who the Astros acquire.  As with many other things about this team, if you don't understand how they run, as a fan, you're going to be confused and frustrated.

That is why Alysson Footer will simply answer a question like this put to her by fans "Would the Astros trade for Brett Myers", with a "I can assure you that the Astros would never acquire Brett Myers".  Baseball-wise, it would be wise to look at a Myers.  But the Astros operate with character as the sixth tool they look for.  That isn't something I made up, that is actually something Tim Purpura said.  What is interesting is that in a give and take chat online with Rick Hummel and his readership over in St. Louis, he was asked point blank if the Cardinal's woes were because they were a bunch of nice guys who needed to be broken up and the team needed to bring in some nasty boys as it were.

Hummel laughed off the suggestion and then went on to praise organizations like the Chicago White Sox, the Houston Astros and the St. Louis Cardinals for making "character" a part of the equation to winning.  And in Hummel's opinion, it works.

Read into this whatever you want, but it is a part of the equation in Houston.

[ASTROCREEP]

That is why Alysson Footer will simply answer a question like this put to her by fans "Would the Astros trade for Brett Myers", with a "I can assure you that the Astros would never acquire Brett Myers".  Baseball-wise, it would be wise to look at a Myers.  But the Astros operate with character as the sixth tool they look for.  That isn't something I made up, that is actually something Tim Purpura said.  What is interesting is that in a give and take chat online with Rick Hummel and his readership over in St. Louis, he was asked point blank if the Cardinal's woes were because they were a bunch of nice guys who needed to be broken up and the team needed to bring in some nasty boys as it were.

Hummel laughed off the suggestion and then went on to praise organizations like the Chicago White Sox, the Houston Astros and the St. Louis Cardinals for making "character" a part of the equation to winning.  And in Hummel's opinion, it works.

Read into this whatever you want, but it is a part of the equation in Houston.

I'm just saying "character" has nothing to with what religion you are or aren't. Drafting good character guys good, drafting someone for his religious devotion...bad (in a pure baseball production sense)

[Limey]

I'm just saying "character" has nothing to with what religion you are or aren't. Drafting good character guys good, drafting someone for his religious devotion...bad (in a pure baseball production sense)

Extreme example to support AC's point:  the BTK Killer was a deacon in his church.  Bonus example:  all those catholic priests who molested boys were...ummm...oh yeah!  Priests!

Being a church person does not automatically make you good.  Being a non-church person does not automatically make you bad.  Almost all non-church people get this; many church people do not.

[Noe]

I'm just saying "character" has nothing to with what religion you are or aren't.

It does have a relationship *in this case*.

Drafting good character guys good, drafting someone for his religious devotion...bad (in a pure baseball production sense)

If the other *five* tool were not evident, the Astros would not draft the player or trade for them.  But the bonus for them is to go ahead and find high integrity guys... whatever their religious beliefs may be (in this case, a high amount of Christian beliefs on this team).  It's not about setting some sort of pace or making a point of it... it just happens to be the case.  The symbiotic relationship is evident, again strictly talking about the Houston Astros and not about the society at large.  These guys are high character guys who profess Christianity as the foundation for thier integrity.  But let me just say that it isn't always evident that high integrity or character is abounding on the team when individuals/humans are involved.  No one checks their humanity at the door and becomes a Stepford Christian as it were... we're all chock full of flaws.  Andy Pettitte said some things that rubbed me the wrong way and really showed me a naive man who is basically insecure.  Chris Burke, another high character guy, recently showed his human side when he confessed to his rant to management about being strung along for two years now.  And so on.

I merely suggest to you that since we're talking about the Houston Astros... and *ONLY* the Houston Astros, the makeup of the team is what it is when it comes to character.  That a research has shown them to have a low number of steroid users may... *MAY*... be a result of the actual character on display.  Or may be not.  But I suspect it is.

[Noe]

Extreme example to support AC's point:  the BTK Killer was a deacon in his church.  Bonus example:  all those catholic priests who molested boys were...ummm...oh yeah!  Priests!

Being a church person does not automatically make you good.  Being a non-church person does not automatically make you bad.  Almost all non-church people get this; many church people do not.

OMG!  When I talk about the Houston Astros... and *ONLY* the Houston Astros... why must you guys bring in societal ills to disprove the point about the Astros?  It makes no sense to me at all.

[Andyzipp]

Being a church person does not automatically make you good.  Being a non-church person does not automatically make you bad.  Almost all non-church people get this; many church people do not.

The vocal minority do not.  I don't know if I'd classify them as many.

[Noe]

The vocal minority do not.  I don't know if I'd classify them as many.

The more vocal, the more you'll find a very insecure and unsure person.  If I can't prove my character by my actions, then doesn't matter how much I say anything to try and prove otherwise.  Shakespere had it right: Methink thou does protest too much!

Don't ever listen to the vocal minority and think you're actually taking in the real sample of the character people in any belief system.

[VirtualBob]

The more vocal, the more you'll find a very insecure and unsure person.  If I can't prove my character by my actions, then doesn't matter how much I say anything to try and prove otherwise.  Shakespere had it right: Methink thou does protest too much!

Don't ever listen to the vocal minority and think you're actually taking in the real sample of the character people in any belief system.

As long as this thread is thoroughly highjacked anyway, I'll throw a little gasoline on the fire ...

Yes ... it is true that Christians (or even the more vague "church people") have no monopoly on "good".
Similarly, it is true that this same group, taken as a self-identified whole, has its fair share of "bad" as well.

BUT ... A Christian has a basis for identifying "good" and "bad"; a basis for desiring one over the other and a reason to strive for one over the other.  "Character" is as much about recognizing one's own failures as it is about actual performance.  "Good" and "bad" have no meaning apart from the standard.  Among those who (methinks) protest too much are those who immediately turn to example and counter-example to discount Christianity ... all while dodging the question of where standards come from and why any particular standard is any better than any other. 

So ... It's probably time to close this thread and give me an official warning before things get *really* out of hand.

[Lefty]

Around 90 percent of prison inmates claim a higher power. Doesn't mean that all those that claim a higher power are criminals. And vise versa.

What's that old saying about the devout prisoner: 

[parole board]  "So when exactly did you find Jesus?"

[convict]  "About 30 minutes after the cops found me."

[Noe]

BUT ... A Christian has a basis for identifying "good" and "bad"; a basis for desiring one over the other and a reason to strive for one over the other.  "Character" is as much about recognizing one's own failures as it is about actual performance.  "Good" and "bad" have no meaning apart from the standard.  Among those who (methinks) protest too much are those who immediately turn to example and counter-example to discount Christianity ... all while dodging the question of where standards come from and why any particular standard is any better than any other. 

Yes, this is very true and well within the context of the makeup of the Houston Astros.  I merely brought this to the forefront to offer a possible answer as to why this organization tested so low on the steriod front.  Either they're better cheaters on this team or a concerted effort has been made organizationally to make it about character all around.  Duman offered a very plausible solution as well, with the Academies in the Domincan and Venezuela countries running a good program.  What is happening there is also a standard for doing things right... whether the foundation is Christian or not, it is still a standard to do things right as it were.

But back to the point you just made, which is very good in my opinion.  Hakem Olajuwon never apologized for his devotion to Islam.  He took several days off in February for Ramadan (sp?), but during his days as a Houston Rocket, no one questioned his integrity and character.  And most applied said standard Mr. Olajuwon set for himself as a product of his belief system.  I have absolutely no problem saying he was a man of good character.  I also have no problem saying I know eggszactly where said character came from.  His devotion to Islam is respected here in this corner.  So what's the big deal about saying the same about the guys who make up the current Houston Astros team?  Can they not be afforded the same respect that Olajuwon had and has to date for his integrity?

[ASTROCREEP]

As long as this thread is thoroughly highjacked anyway, I'll throw a little gasoline on the fire ...

Yes ... it is true that Christians (or even the more vague "church people") have no monopoly on "good".
Similarly, it is true that this same group, taken as a self-identified whole, has its fair share of "bad" as well.

BUT ... A Christian has a basis for identifying "good" and "bad"; a basis for desiring one over the other and a reason to strive for one over the other.  "Character" is as much about recognizing one's own failures as it is about actual performance.  "Good" and "bad" have no meaning apart from the standard.  Among those who (methinks) protest too much are those who immediately turn to example and counter-example to discount Christianity ... all while dodging the question of where standards come from and why any particular standard is any better than any other. 

So ... It's probably time to close this thread and give me an official warning before things get *really* out of hand.

...sitting on my hands now...unless the powers that be want to open up a religous discussion.

Because I think we all basiclly agree that the Astros have the players they need to win, minus maybe one OF, they just need to perform.
So not much to talk about, regarding them.

[VirtualBob]

//slice//
 So what's the big deal about saying the same about the guys who make up the current Houston Astros team? 

None from my perspective ... I agree with you completely.  My diversion was more in response to the shots you were taking from the cheap seats.

[ASTROCREEP]

Yes, this is very true and well within the context of the makeup of the Houston Astros.  I merely brought this to the forefront to offer a possible answer as to why this organization tested so low on the steriod front.  Either they're better cheaters on this team or a concerted effort has been made organizationally to make it about character all around.  Duman offered a very plausible solution as well, with the Academies in the Domincan and Venezuela countries running a good program.  What is happening there is also a standard for doing things right... whether the foundation is Christian or not, it is still a standard to do things right as it were.

But back to the point you just made, which is very good in my opinion.  Hakem Olajuwon never apologized for his devotion to Islam.  He took several days off in February for Ramadan (sp?), but during his days as a Houston Rocket, no one questioned his integrity and character.  And most applied said standard Mr. Olajuwon set for himself as a product of his belief system.  I have absolutely no problem saying he was a man of good character.  I also have no problem saying I know eggszactly where said character came from.  His devotion to Islam is respected here in this corner.  So what's the big deal about saying the same about the guys who make up the current Houston Astros team?  Can they not be afforded the same respect that Olajuwon had and has to date for his integrity?

as long as that same respect is given to that lonely person in the Astros locker room (there is probably atleast one) the folows no religion at all.

[Noe]

None from my perspective ... I agree with you completely.  My diversion was more in response to the shots you were taking from the cheap seats.

I welcome the shots.  I have no problem saying what I said because I know the makeup of this team.  I also know it is an organizational effort to ascribe a standard to what players must do, religious or not, to be Houston Astros.  I cannot pretend it is not there, nor can I not talk about it because that would totally unfair and leave a huge hole in the conversation what this team is about.  Just like Jeff Bagwell ascribed to a philosophy of "Play Hard" that filtered down to the last man on the team, a standard has been set for conduct on this team that says "We will live with integrity".  Does that mean I won't ever hear of a Houston Astros beating their wives?  No, that would be very naive of me.  But I do know that currently, we have a team of "good guys" who do try to live what they believe... wherever those beliefs come from (and again, the majority of it comes from a Christian perspective).  Does it also mean that these guys will win because they are high character guys?  Not necessarily, no.  Does it mean that teams made up of bad guys (per se) won't win?  Not necessarily, no.  The 1986 steMs proved that in spades.

So my point was simply this: the Houston Astros, organizationally, seek out character guys, not in a singular fashion but as the sixth tool that will help them maintain a winning atmosphere in Houston.  It is the philosophy they've made for themselves, whether I agree with it or not and whether I believe it actually leads to winning or not as well.  That a research shows that they have a low incident of steriod use on this team and knowing what they've done in the minors to get to certain players who were living abusive lives outside the game tells me that a relationship may exist between the foundational belief of character is important and the results of said research.

[Noe]

as long as that same respect is given to that lonely person in the Astros locker room (there is probably atleast one) the folows no religion at all.

What eggszactly do you think "character" means then?

[MusicMan]

Hakem Olajuwon never apologized for his devotion to Islam.  He took several days off in February for Ramadan (sp?), but during his days as a Houston Rocket, no one questioned his integrity and character. 

Unfortunately, this is not true.  The previous ownership regime had openly accused Hakeem of faking an injury.

[Noe]

Unfortunately, this is not true.  The previous ownership regime had openly accused Hakeem of faking an injury.

Yup, which caused quite a stir amongst the fandom and also the Olajuwon camp as well.

[Andyzipp]

Unfortunately, this is not true.  The previous ownership regime had openly accused Hakeem of faking an injury.

Mixing up history, IIRC.  Ramadan was never an issue.  Faking the injury had to do with the thrombosis he had that caused him to wear the panty hose for a season.

[ASTROCREEP]

What eggszactly do you think "character" means then?

I'm not really sure now, but i do know it has nothing to do with Religion.


Correction: It has as much to do with the color of your hair. It could affect character.

[MusicMan]

Mixing up history, IIRC.  Ramadan was never an issue.  Faking the injury had to do with the thrombosis he had that caused him to wear the panty hose for a season.

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that Ramadan was at issue.

[Noe]

I'm not really sure now, but i do know it has nothing to do with Religion.

Within the context of what you said earlier, what eggszactly do you think "character" means if not being respectful of others as a staple of integrity?  You can certainly have a difference of opinion and still maintain a healthy character.  No one is saying that Christainity is shoved down the throats of anyone in the Houston Astros.  If I said that, please rest assured that does not happen at all.  The Houston Astros are not an organization that works like a totalitarian (sp?) religious regime and it's funny that someone might actually believe they do.

So again, is that what you think "character" means within the context of what we've been saying?  That it is stifling and regimented and oppressive within the Houston Astros organization?

[ASTROCREEP]

Within the context of what you said earlier, what eggszactly do you think "character" means if not being respectful of others as a staple of integrity?  You can certainly have a difference of opinion and still maintain a healthy character.  No one is saying that Christainity is shoved down the throats of anyone in the Houston Astros.  If I said that, please rest assured that does not happen at all.  The Houston Astros are not an organization that works like a totalitarian (sp?) religious regime and it's funny that someone might actually believe they do.

So again, is that what you think "character" means within the context of what we've been saying?  That it is stifling and regimented and oppressive within the Houston Astros organization?

I hope not, and I don't think it is. Was Bagwell a big religious guy?  He was a WORK HARD or GO HOME TYPE GUY, but I can't remember a lot of talk about religion with him.

[Noe]

Correction: It has as much to do with the color of your hair. It could affect character.

If that is the case, Geoff Blum would still be on this team.

[ASTROCREEP]

If that is the case, Geoff Blum would still be on this team.

??

[MRaup]

??

Come on now...

Bleach Blum...

[Noe]

I hope not, and I don't think it is.

So you answered your own question then.

Was Bagwell a big religious guy?

I don't know, neither do I know about Brad Ausmus, another of the veteran leadership on this team.  I don't happen to think they are.

He was a WORK HARD or GO HOME TYPE GUY, but I can't remember a lot of talk about religion with him.

Right, said so in my last reply.  But again, my point is that the Houston Astros, as an *organization* preach and practice "character" as the sixth tool.  Again, I didn't say that, Tim Purpuras said it in one of his radio interviews prior to a Sunday game.  He actually called it the "sixth tool" that organizational, they look for.  The high character guys they've brought here have a high ratio of Christain beliefs.  Some do not.  They all get along because foundationally, they like each other for their desire to live by a standard.  It is not a splintered clubhouse because some are Christain and some are not.  It is not oppressive, it is not stifling, it is not shoved down any one's throat.

But it is a staple of the team that they have a high number of Christain ballplayers that ascribe to character.  The bullpen guys all hang out together during the road trips and they have a motto of "no one eats alone".  Some are Christian, some are not... but they hang together so that they can keep each other accountable and not stray away and get involved in something that perhaps they should not.  If I'm a good guy trying to live a standard that maintains my integrity with my wife (*even if I'm not religious at all*), I welcome such a teammate.

So again, my point was that this *organization* has a low incident of steriod use perhaps... *PERHAPS*... because they have the sixth tool as part of their philosophy.  And since most of the guys that makeup this team are of the Christain belief, that helps solifiy said standard.  It has to come from somewhere, even if you believe it comes from hair color.

[Astroholic]

So you answered your own question then.

I don't know, neither do I know about Brad Ausmus, another of the veteran leadership on this team.  I don't happen to think they are.

Right, said so in my last reply.  But again, my point is that the Houston Astros, as an *organization* preach and practice "character" as the sixth tool.  Again, I didn't say that, Tim Purpuras said it in one of his radio interviews prior to a Sunday game.  He actually called it the "sixth tool" that organizational, they look for.  The high character guys they've brought here have a high ratio of Christain beliefs.  Some do not.  They all get along because foundationally, they like each other for their desire to live by a standard.  It is not a splintered clubhouse because some are Christain and some are not.  It is not oppressive, it is not stifling, it is not shoved down any one's throat.

But it is a staple of the team that they have a high number of Christain ballplayers that ascribe to character.  The bullpen guys all hang out together during the road trips and they have a motto of "no one eats alone".  Some are Christian, some are not... but they hang together so that they can keep each other accountable and not stray away and get involved in something that perhaps they should not.  If I'm a good guy trying to live a standard that maintains my integrity with my wife (*even if I'm not religious at all*), I welcome such a teammate.

So again, my point was that this *organization* has a low incident of steriod use perhaps... *PERHAPS*... because they have the sixth tool as part of their philosophy.

It is also the reason the Mitch "fuck" is gone and possible "the Kid".

[ASTROCREEP]

Come on now...

Bleach Blum...

If you're saying an Astros hair style is as important as his religion. Then, I get it.

[pravata]

So you answered your own question then.

I don't know, neither do I know about Brad Ausmus, another of the veteran leadership on this team.  I don't happen to think they are.

Right, said so in my last reply.  But again, my point is that the Houston Astros, as an *organization* preach and practice "character" as the sixth tool.  Again, I didn't say that, Tim Purpuras said it in one of his radio interviews prior to a Sunday game.  He actually called it the "sixth tool" that organizational, they look for.  The high character guys they've brought here have a high ratio of Christain beliefs.  Some do not.  They all get along because foundationally, they like each other for their desire to live by a standard.  It is not a splintered clubhouse because some are Christain and some are not.  It is not oppressive, it is not stifling, it is not shoved down any one's throat.

But it is a staple of the team that they have a high number of Christain ballplayers that ascribe to character.  The bullpen guys all hang out together during the road trips and they have a motto of "no one eats alone".  Some are Christian, some are not... but they hang together so that they can keep each other accountable and not stray away and get involved in something that perhaps they should not.  If I'm a good guy trying to live a standard that maintains my integrity with my wife (*even if I'm not religious at all*), I welcome such a teammate.

So again, my point was that this *organization* has a low incident of steriod use perhaps... *PERHAPS*... because they have the sixth tool as part of their philosophy.

And it could be one reason Pence started the season in AAA. (Not the steroids, character) This is where people become confused about some of the things the Astros do.  Of course, J the JO alternately wanted Pence boiled in oil, and then brought up immediately.  People like him do not understand the concept, except in macho bluster.   Here's the "makeup" quote,

Purpura "What I believe sets us apart is that to us, "make-up" is the sixth tool. We are obsessed with it. Our scouts are like private eyes when it comes to finding out what kind of person a player is. They conduct numerous interviews with the player, his coaches, his teammates, etc. to learn about a kid. Also, like many other teams we do use a standardized personality inventory. Mike Berger, who worked for us last year as a pro scout, told me that he had never been challenged on the makeup areas like he had been with us." Link

[Noe]

Purpura "What I believe sets us apart is that to us, "make-up" is the sixth tool. We are obsessed with it. Our scouts are like private eyes when it comes to finding out what kind of person a player is. They conduct numerous interviews with the player, his coaches, his teammates, etc. to learn about a kid. Also, like many other teams we do use a standardized personality inventory. Mike Berger, who worked for us last year as a pro scout, told me that he had never been challenged on the makeup areas like he had been with us." Link

So now that Purpura has said what he did (and no mention of hair color in that statement that I can see... hmmmmm....), can the concerted effort by the organization to find "make-up" (or character) guys have anything... I mean in the slightest... with a low incident of steriod use?

IMHO, the answer is yes.

[JaneDoe]

And it could be one reason Pence started the season in AAA. (Not the steroids, character) This is where people become confused about some of the things the Astros do.  Of course, J the JO alternately wanted Pence boiled in oil, and then brought up immediately.  People like him do not understand the concept, except in macho bluster.   Here's the "makeup" quote,

Purpura "What I believe sets us apart is that to us, "make-up" is the sixth tool. We are obsessed with it. Our scouts are like private eyes when it comes to finding out what kind of person a player is. They conduct numerous interviews with the player, his coaches, his teammates, etc. to learn about a kid. Also, like many other teams we do use a standardized personality inventory. Mike Berger, who worked for us last year as a pro scout, told me that he had never been challenged on the makeup areas like he had been with us." Link

"Play hard or play elsewhere"
Sounds like good advice to Clarks, too.

[ASTROCREEP]

So now that Purpura has said what he did (and no mention of hair color in that statement that I can see... hmmmmm....), can the concerted effort by the organization to find "make-up" (or character) guys have anything... I mean in the slightest... with a low incident of steriod use?

IMHO, the answer is yes.

More than slightest, good character should translate to a lack of cheating. (I think using steriods is cheating)

[rgs]

Purpura "What I believe sets us apart is that to us, "make-up" is the sixth tool. We are obsessed with it. Our scouts are like private eyes when it comes to finding out what kind of person a player is. They conduct numerous interviews with the player, his coaches, his teammates, etc. to learn about a kid. Also, like many other teams we do use a standardized personality inventory. Mike Berger, who worked for us last year as a pro scout, told me that he had never been challenged on the makeup areas like he had been with us." Link


[/quote]

I have also heard Purp say he believed the minor league testing the Astros have always done contributes to the low steroid use.

[JimR]

I have also heard Purp say he believed the minor league testing the Astros have always done contributes to the low steroid use.

not "always"

see Ginter, Keith

[jbm]

I've always understood the term "makeup" to encompass much more than just "character," if by character, we are merely talking about being an honest, good citizen. 

I hope their "sixth tool" evaluation is aimed at more than weeding out bad actors, but instead aims to identify individuals who have the traits needed to maximize their baseball talents. 

[Noe]

I've always understood the term "makeup" to encompass much more than just "character," if by character, we are merely talking about being an honest, good citizen.

So tell us what "make-up" means when you read the entirety of what Purpura said. 

I hope their "sixth tool" evaluation is aimed at more than weeding out bad actors, but instead aims to identify individuals who have the traits needed to maximize their baseball talents. 

Again, what do you think Purpura meant by using his entire context of words.

[Jose Cruz III]

Not to re-hijack this thread, but I am sure players like Bonds and Giambi would help this team offensively. But I am glad that I do not have to defend nor despise anyone on the Astros.

BTW, isn't this part of the reason the Stros cut Lugo loose?

[pravata]

Not to re-hijack this thread, but I am sure players like Bonds and Giambi would help this team offensively. But I am glad that I do not have to defend nor despise anyone on the Astros.

BTW, isn't this part of the reason the Stros cut Lugo loose?

The "official what Hunsicker said" version is that he was thinking about replacing Lugo with Everett, because of his defense, a week before the incident happened. 

[Jose Cruz III]

The "official what Hunsicker said" version is that he was thinking about replacing Lugo with Everett, because of his defense, a week before the incident happened. 

A question that I seriously cannot remember. Wasn't it Lugo that botched the DP ball in the 8th inning against the Braves right before Chipper hit the bomb off Wagner? If not, who was it?

[Noe]

A question that I seriously cannot remember. Wasn't it Lugo that botched the DP ball in the 8th inning against the Braves right before Chipper hit the bomb off Wagner? If not, who was it?

Yes.

[pravata]

A question that I seriously cannot remember. Wasn't it Lugo that botched the DP ball in the 8th inning against the Braves right before Chipper hit the bomb off Wagner? If not, who was it?

And in 2003, he got the yips, wouldn't want to let the ball go.

[jbm]

So tell us what "make-up" means when you read the entirety of what Purpura said. 

Again, what do you think Purpura meant by using his entire context of words.

Reading the article, I thought the term was used to encompass both verifying being a good citizen and identifying traits that will help them maximize their potential.  I'll admit that I probably read it that way, simply because it is my understanding of the term.

[Noe]

Reading the article, I thought the term was used to encompass both verifying being a good citizen and identifying traits that will help them maximize their potential.  I'll admit that I probably read it that way, simply because it is my understanding of the term.

Can you expound more on this please.  Thanks.