Never, never, never, never take the field if you're not up to playing

[Noe]

You can forgive mistake born out of hustle or trying to do too much or a break going wrong (like a bad bounce).  You never blame a player nor a team when it's going wrong when they're trying like heck to get it done.  You move on.

But last night, I just had this gnawing feeling that some of these guys just were not ready to play... and they got their arse kicked by the struggling Diamondbacks and a rookie pitcher who lasted all of 1 and 1.2 innings his last two starts.  He threw a freaking complete game on the local nine.  Or should I say local five with four sleep walkers?  Or maybe more.  I don't know if I could actually count who wanted to be out there last night, but I've never seen a Bagwell lead team try to sleep walk their way through a game like that.  If they did, they'd have to answer to the man who coined the phrase "Play hard... or don't play at all!".  Baggy must be rolling over in his grave... and he ain't dead yet too!  I mean, good lordy... can you show me less desire to play baseball than I saw last night.  Can you warn me you don't care so I can adopt the same and do other things at night... like sleep!

Fucking in-ex-freaking-cusable to take the field like that.  You wanna play, fine!  Show me you wanna play, else get the fuck out of the way and let some other poor bastard who really cares about being out on the field with the other 8 men and compete.  I don't care about the final score as much as I care that you don't give up... and I saw some mighty huge "give up" last night.  So who wants to play?  You Wandy Rodriquez?  Fine, show up next time and compete!

Same goes for the rest of ya who decided it was damn fine to cross the white lines with a half ass desire to be there.  There will be no fucking Jakes in this team.  Period.

(That is what I'd say if I were Phil Garner today... right before game time).

[Alkie]

There will be no fucking Jakes in this team.

Gross. 

[Astroholic]

You can forgive mistake born out of hustle or trying to do too much or a break going wrong (like a bad bounce).  You never blame a player nor a team when it's going wrong when they're trying like heck to get it done.  You move on.

But last night, I just had this gnawing feeling that some of these guys just were not ready to play... and they got their arse kicked by the struggling Diamondbacks and a rookie pitcher who lasted all of 1 and 1.2 innings his last two starts.  He threw a freaking complete game on the local nine.  Or should I say local five with four sleep walkers?  Or maybe more.  I don't know if I could actually count who wanted to be out there last night, but I've never seen a Bagwell lead team try to sleep walk their way through a game like that.  If they did, they'd have to answer to the man who coined the phrase "Play hard... or don't play at all!".  Baggy must be rolling over in his grave... and he ain't dead yet too!  I mean, good lordy... can you show me less desire to play baseball than I saw last night.  Can you warn me you don't care so I can adopt the same and do other things at night... like sleep!

Fucking in-ex-freaking-cusable to take the field like that.  You wanna play, fine!  Show me you wanna play, else get the fuck out of the way and let some other poor bastard who really cares about being out on the field with the other 8 men and compete.  I don't care about the final score as much as I care that you don't give up... and I saw some mighty huge "give up" last night.  So who wants to play?  You Wandy Rodriquez?  Fine, show up next time and compete!

Same goes for the rest of ya who decided it was damn fine to cross the white lines with a half ass desire to be there.  There will be no fucking Jakes in this team.  Period.

(That is what I'd say if I were Phil Garner today... right before game time).

Kevin Bass still looks like he can hit, bring him out of retirement.  I bet he can hit better than 4/6 people in the current lineup.

[Noe]

Kevin Bass still looks like he can hit, bring him out of retirement.  I bet he can hit better than 4/6 people in the current lineup.

See, it's not about doing better... these guys can do better than Bass, hands down.  It's about *wanting* to play.  It is never a good idea to have an attitude of nothing wanting to be there with the team.  You can't compete that way.  Either you want to be there or not.  And last night was the first time in a very, very, very long time I saw some "I don't want to be here" faces and postures.

Adam Everett last year had a very rough personal life going and he still took the field and competed and try to help the team win.  It is an insult to guys like AE who do that to have others out on the same field with them who look so damn disinterested.  So it's attitude I'm talking about, not performance.

I'd kick some arse if I felt someone was half stepping on my team.  It is not allowed.  End. Of. Story.

[Rebel Jew]

when i first heard about the pence call-up, i figured it could go in many directions:  struggling rookie working hard to stay on the team, overmatched rookie called up too soon, exciting rookie holding his own.  but i never thought for a second that it would happen the way it has actually happened; one man team.

the other night at the zito giants game, ninth inning, down 9-1, pence comes up against russ ortiz with two outs and smacks a single to right.  the rest of the team had quit.  and he's still up hacking.  it's like night and day right now between him and the rest of the team.

[Astroholic]

when i first heard about the pence call-up, i figured it could go in many directions:  struggling rookie working hard to stay on the team, overmatched rookie called up too soon, exciting rookie holding his own.  but i never thought for a second that it would happen the way it has actually happened; one man team.

the other night at the zito giants game, ninth inning, down 9-1, pence comes up against russ ortiz with two outs and smacks a single to right.  the rest of the team had quit.  and he's still up hacking.  it's like night and day right now between him and the rest of the team.

And this team needs a shake up to get their "head back into the game".  Where is the heart?  The desire?  I still think AE has it,for the record.

[Noe]

when i first heard about the pence call-up, i figured it could go in many directions:  struggling rookie working hard to stay on the team, overmatched rookie called up too soon, exciting rookie holding his own.  but i never thought for a second that it would happen the way it has actually happened; one man team.

the other night at the zito giants game, ninth inning, down 9-1, pence comes up against russ ortiz with two outs and smacks a single to right.  the rest of the team had quit.  and he's still up hacking.  it's like night and day right now between him and the rest of the team.

Some guys have to look in the mirror.  It's not about getting a hit or two and saying you're doing your part.  It's about caring and wanting to help and crossing the white lines with a desire to play.  "Play hard... or don't play at all".  That is a damn fine way to put it because that is eggszactly how you should play.  Every freaking day.  Not with hair on fire mind you, I don't think that is the tell-tale sign of caring.  It is the little things of running hard to beat out a throw, hitting a cut off man, knowing situations and what you must do to contribute.  You don't half heartedly swing at a ball, you don't hang your teammate out to dry with your pathetic attempt at a bunt, you don't throw "I give up" meatballs because situations are tough, you don't run back on a ball like it's poison and you want no part of it.

Was it a one night abberation?  Perhaps.  But it stinks to see your favorite team taking the field like that.  I won't happen again because there are plenty of guys on this team who will decide it's time to kick your arse if you don't wanna compete.  I miss Bagwell, but someone has got to step up and speak out for the 'tude I sensed last night.

[davek]

I'd kick some arse if I felt someone was half stepping on my team.  It is not allowed.  End. Of. Story.

Funny you mention this... Last night in the middle of the game I had a flashback to the scene in Bull Durham with bats flying all over the shower followed by the "lollygag" rant...

Truthfully, I also thought about how badly this team needs a Crash Davis and a rainout...

[Astroholic]

Some guys have to look in the mirror.  It's not about getting a hit or two and saying you're doing your part.  It's about caring and wanting to help and crossing the white lines with a desire to play.  "Play hard... or don't play at all".  That is a damn fine way to put it because that is eggszactly how you should play.  Every freaking day.  Not with hair on fire mind you, I don't think that is the tell-tale sign of caring.  It is the little things of running hard to beat out a throw, hitting a cut off man, knowing situations and what you must do to contribute.  You don't half heartedly swing at a ball, you don't hang your teammate out to dry with your pathetic attempt at a bunt, you don't throw "I give up" meatballs because situations are tough, you don't run back on a ball like it's poison and you want no part of it.

Was it a one night abberation?  Perhaps.  But it stinks to see your favorite team taking the field like that.  I won't happen again because there are plenty of guys on this team who will decide it's time to kick your arse if you don't wanna compete.  I miss Bagwell, but someone has got to step up and speak out for the 'tude I sensed last night.

Getting all of this Berkman, Lee, Iceburg, Wandy, etc.  I still think Biggio plays this way, he just is not physically up to standards (his great standards).

[At Ease]

Diamondbacks and a rookie pitcher who lasted all of 1 and 1.2 innings his last two starts.  He threw a freaking complete game on the local nine. 

ESPN's game log could be crap... but it says he lasted 2.2 innings his last start.  Every start before that looks very respectable.  The 1.2 inning stint came in relief. 

A pretty remarkable climb for Owings, who two years ago at this time was pitching in an NCAA regional...

[Noe]

Funny you mention this... Last night in the middle of the game I had a flashback to the scene in Bull Durham with bats flying all over the shower followed by the "lollygag" rant...

Truthfully, I also thought about how badly this team needs a Crash Davis and a rainout...

Agree!  I had the same sense last night.  "You're a bunch of... what is it again... right... LOLLYGAGGERS!"  It was disheartening to watch them play so disinterested last night.  Micah Owings didn't beat them last night.  No one showed up.

[Astroholic]

ESPN's game log could be crap... but it says he lasted 2.2 innings his last start.  Every start before that looks very respectable.  The 1.2 inning stint came in relief. 

A pretty remarkable climb for Owings, who two years ago at this time was pitching in an NCAA regional...

Not really remarkable, he was just pitching against the stros.

[Noe]

ESPN's game log could be crap... but it says he lasted 2.2 innings his last start.  Every start before that looks very respectable.  The 1.2 inning stint came in relief. 

A pretty remarkable climb for Owings, who two years ago at this time was pitching in an NCAA regional...

He's not that good.  Sorry.

[strosrays]

If the majority of the team isn't really trying, that ultimately goes back to the manager, no?  I'm neutral on Garner at this point, but if the team continues to be this listless for much longer, Garner will likely be casualty #1.

I don't think firing him is a good idea, but what I think has nothing to do with it.

[Limey]

If the majority of the team isn't really trying, that ultimately goes back to the manager, no?  I'm neutral on Garner at this point, but if the team continues to be this listless for much longer, Garner will likely be casualty #1.

I don't think firing him is a good idea, but what I think has nothing to do with it.

Team-wide suckitude normally lands in the lap of the manager.  I also wonder if Berry might not get some of this stink on him too.

[pravata]

when i first heard about the pence call-up, i figured it could go in many directions:  struggling rookie working hard to stay on the team, overmatched rookie called up too soon, exciting rookie holding his own.  but i never thought for a second that it would happen the way it has actually happened; one man team.

the other night at the zito giants game, ninth inning, down 9-1, pence comes up against russ ortiz with two outs and smacks a single to right.  the rest of the team had quit.  and he's still up hacking.  it's like night and day right now between him and the rest of the team.

During spring Purpura tried to explain Pence's success this way,

"He operates at 150 percent all the time while most of the league is at 70 to 80 percent," Purpura said.

That was supposed to mean that during Spring the veterans weren't going full out all the time, but the rookie was.  Now it's May.  Same thing.

[pravata]

Not really remarkable, he was just pitching against the stros.

Ray Ratto of the SF Chron, trying to temper the enthusiasm for Zito's "recovery" wrote "Barry Zito stifling the Houston Astros is not proof of him being cured. I mean, you saw the Astros try to hit this week, didn't you?"

[At Ease]

He's not that good.  Sorry.

Eh, sorry as well, but he has been quite good as a starter this year.  Throw out the Pittsburgh game, and he has an ERA under 3 over 6 starts.

You can attack the Astros all you want.. but I don't see the need to exaggerate their struggles.

[Noe]

I want to make sure I don't overstate this, because it is important for me to communicate as well as I can.  I'm only talking about last night and seriously, to me, the pitcher sets the tone of how the team will play.  Unfair?  Probably.  But I tell you what, had Roy Oswalt not gone out in game six of the 2006 NLCS and set the tone for the team, I shudder to think about the Pujols media hype on the homerun off Lidge.  But I digress.

Wandy took the mound last night and almost immediate I could hear in Jimmy D's voice that he was trying to explain where Wandy's head might be.  Try as he may to be positive about it, Jimmy D was giving us all insight as to what can happen if a guy isn't wanting to set the tone and not wanting to be out there.  I heard things like "he needs to bear down" or "he needs to continue to compete even though there are men on the corners and no outs" or "sometimes you just have to work your way through that first inning because I've always said that pitchers have the hardest job at the beginning of the game because they don't get to practice on the actual field like the other position players".  It was all meant as insight and not excuses.  But Wandy set the tone for a major give up last night and the team followed him, right down to the relievers as well.

Okay, so you turn the page... but not before you have to have your manager stand up and say "I never want to fucking see that attitude again by this team... else some of you won't get a chance to go out on the field again as long as I'm the manager".

In some ways, it is about what Phil can do now to stop that attitude from festering into the entire clubhouse.  They can start tonight.  Not by beating the D'Backs by 10 runs, that is not the issue.  They can start tonight by just plain playing hard.

[Noe]

Eh, sorry as well, but he has been quite good as a starter this year.  Throw out the Pittsburgh game, and he has an ERA under 3 over 6 starts.

You can attack the Astros all you want.. but I don't see the need to exaggerate their struggles.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that Micah Owings is not that good.  Not complete game type of good, is what I am saying.  Is he bad?  That is not what I am saying either.  I wish folks would really try to understand what I actually say and not what they think I am saying.  He's an average starter.  Nothing great.  And I don't base this on stats, I base it on what I saw last night.  He is not mechanically sound, so teams need to adjust to him and once the league catches up to him, he's going to have to adjust as well.  He doesn't really have the type of stuff that tells me he's going to be a top of the line starter.

So, are you a Tulane alumn?

[At Ease]

I'm not exaggerating when I say that Micah Owings is not that good.  Not complete game type of good, is what I am saying.  Is he bad?  That is not what I am saying either.  I wish folks would really try to understand what I actually say and not what they think I am saying.  He's an average starter.  Nothing great.  And I don't base this on stats, I base it on what I saw last night.  He is not mechanically sound, so teams need to adjust to him and once the league catches up to him, he's going to have to adjust as well.  He doesn't really have the type of stuff that tells me he's going to be a top of the line starter.

So, are you a Tulane alumn?

Nah, not an alum of Tulane.. I just follow NCAA baseball closely.

You should perhaps think about how others will read your words.  When you refer to the struggling D'backs and a rookie pitcher that has only lasted a short time his last few starts, 99% of people will infer that the Astros were shut down by a nobody that the rest of the league has been shelling.  Unfortunately, that isn't close to being the case.

[Waldo]

Adam Everett last year had a very rough personal life going and he still took the field and competed and try to help the team win.  It is an insult to guys like AE who do that to have others out on the same field with them who look so damn disinterested.  So it's attitude I'm talking about, not performance.

I have seen references to this but may not have been paying attention last season.  What happened?

[pravata]

I have seen references to this but may not have been paying attention last season.  What happened?

"...in June 2005 Adam and Jennifer were told that 6-month-old Peyton had a benign tumor near her spinal cord." Link

[pravata]

Nah, not an alum of Tulane.. I just follow NCAA baseball closely.

You should perhaps think about how others will read your words.  When you refer to the struggling D'backs and a rookie pitcher that has only lasted a short time his last few starts, 99% of people will infer that the Astros were shut down by a nobody that the rest of the league has been shelling.  Unfortunately, that isn't close to being the case.

Watching last night though, we saw a pitcher whose mechanics were all over the place and rarely threw the ball where intended.

[Noe]

Nah, not an alum of Tulane.. I just follow NCAA baseball closely.

You should perhaps think about how others will read your words.  When you refer to the struggling D'backs and a rookie pitcher that has only lasted a short time his last few starts, 99% of people will infer that the Astros were shut down by a nobody that the rest of the league has been shelling.  Unfortunately, that isn't close to being the case.

That's because you think I'm a johnny-come-lately, never-seen-a-baseball-game, don't-know-how-the-game-is-played sort of fan.  I'm not.  So when I say something, don't infer anything that you'd normally infer from a blow-hard fan that will say "Astros rool, D'Back drool!"  I never said Owings was a "nobody" (I don't usually talk about the opposition is such a manner, usually I'll say to tip the cap to a performance better than you on that day), I simply said he's not as good as the Astros made him look... neither are the D'Backs.

[Noe]

Watching last night though, we saw a pitcher whose mechanics were all over the place and rarely threw the ball where intended.

Eggszactly.  I watched the game, I would think that if you saw what happened last night, you would have no problem with what I said.  Owings did nothing to merit high praise other than he was facing the Astros and they managed to sleep walk through the whole game.  Unless Owings is a hypnotist, I don't think he should be given great credit for a team that just didn't care to show up last night.

[Sleepy]

Someone throw at someone and let's get the juices flowing again.  When do they play the Cubs next? 

[Mr. Happy]

I'm not exaggerating when I say that Micah Owings is not that good.  Not complete game type of good, is what I am saying.  Is he bad?  That is not what I am saying either.  I wish folks would really try to understand what I actually say and not what they think I am saying.  He's an average starter.  Nothing great.  And I don't base this on stats, I base it on what I saw last night.  He is not mechanically sound, so teams need to adjust to him and once the league catches up to him, he's going to have to adjust as well.  He doesn't really have the type of stuff that tells me he's going to be a top of the line starter.

So, are you a Tulane alumn?

Ownings has big league stuff, but he;s still green. Circumstance dictated that he come up early. He could round himself in to solid 3 borderine 2.

[Lurch]

Caveat: Due respect to those that have played and/or coached at a level higher than little league, I have not.  How a full time player thinks is unfamiliar to me, but I'd like to believe it is not significantly different than an average 20-30 year old at work.

Look, I love to watch a pep rally and a fired up speaker as much as the next guy, but I have little confidence in its effectiveness short of a short term adrenalin rush for the audience.  The proverbial kick in the ass would seem to only serve the purpose of getting an individual to focus on the immediate task at hand.  To suggest that is necessary for this club, then, is to say that a professional hitter is standing in a batters box watching 90+ mph fastballs and is somehow letting his thoughts wander elsewhere and/or not "want enough" to get on base.  Or, that a pitcher center stage in front of thousands of spectators and the glare of a batter, catcher and ump is anything but 100% attempting to throw the best pitch he can, every time necessary.  This seems completely implausible to me, at least at this stage during the season.  (see again, caveat)

Rather, wouldn’t it be more realistic to believe that the outcome of a game (and more specifically, the outcome of each individual action that occurs during the game for each player) is instead the result of numerous factors such as natural ability, training, mechanics, preparation, fatigue, strategy, random decisions, game situations, weather, field conditions and an enormous thing called chance that are not at all impacted by the words of a motivational speaker?

This reeks of "The Secret" philosophy of merely willing something to happen to you as an effective life strategy.  100% Bullshit consumed in large quantities by the simple minded who need an easy answer for everything.

A parallel in my own life would be my golf game.  I am fully committed to breaking 80 (haven’t yet) and absolutely beat myself up over doing it.  Within a two week span, I have played the same course at 82 and 102.  I can assure you that the difference is not desire, will or focus, but a myriad of factors such as those listed above.  To achieve my goal I must always be able to identify the weakness de jour and focus on solutions for it.  Having Bagwell call me a panty waste for missing an easy putt will likely do nothing to improve my game at this point.

The problems between the lines are real, and of legitimate concern, no doubt.  I think time is better spent identifying the individual areas of concern for each player and focusing training/practice efforts there.  Suggesting that the team just doesn’t want it enough is a weak out.  That's too easy an answer.

[MRaup]

Next time, before you go out there... Tell yourself that if you don't shoot under 80, you're going to smack yourself in the nuts with your 3 Wood.

Report back with results on how you do.

[Lurch]

Next time, before you go out there... Tell yourself that if you don't shoot under 80, you're going to smack yourself in the nuts with your 3 Wood.

Report back with results on how you do.

as if I could make solid contact with a 3 wood...

[MRaup]

as if I could make solid contact with a 3 wood...

Touche.

Well played, sir.

[Noe]

Suggesting that the team just doesn’t want it enough is a weak out.  That's too easy an answer.

If this is about what I said, then it's not what I said at all.  I said last night, I said in a very long time have I not seen this sort of *effort* and I said not all but some of the players.  But because of *last night*, I fully expect Garner to kick some arse.  Because of the outcome?  No.  Because of the effort?  Yes.

It is highly unacceptable to play this game without a desire to help your fellow 8 to achieve a good outcome.  I don't advocate cracking heads when the score is in the other team's favor, but it is entirely necessary when you don't put out an effort.  It is subtle to see I guess, but I think some guys last night took the field with a less than committed attitude to play hard.

I'd welcome someone to kick my arse if I did the same on any team I was on.  I needed it on occasion and one time a coach told me to just fucking go home.  Message recieved and appreciated.

[juliogotay]

I love Garner but I was disappointed in his calm demeanor in last nite's post-game conference. It almost looks like he was sleep-walking himself. No real emotion. I expected to see steam coming out of his ears last nite.

[Sleepy]

I think the point is something like this:

poor play --> lack of focus --> despondence --> kick in the ass --> focus --> good play --> excitement --> more focus --> great play --> too late, you finished 1.5 games out.

I don't think the one night pep rally is intended to carry a team through a long period of time, just create a boost that causes a chain reaction and builds on itself.  This isn't the second half of a football game, it's a marathon.

The thing that worries me most is that this is appearing as more of a theme than a "dog days" mentality.  It's more prominent now, but it's not the first time it's shown itself this year.  Pretty early in the season to have this attitude so visible.

Where's Michael Barrett?

So, what's the answer?  A short-term kick in the ass to see if the engine starts (didn't they do that a month ago), or a significant shifting of chemistry?  Pup's got to be thinking about the latter at this point.

[Lurch]

If this is about what I said, then it's not what I said at all.  I said last night, I said in a very long time have I not seen this sort of *effort* and I said not all but some of the players.  But because of *last night*, I fully expect Garner to kick some arse.  Because of the outcome?  No.  Because of the effort?  Yes.

It is highly unacceptable to play this game without a desire to help your fellow 8 to achieve a good outcome.  I don't advocate cracking heads when the score is in the other team's favor, but it is entirely necessary when you don't put out an effort.  It is subtle to see I guess, but I think some guys last night took the field with a less than committed attitude to play hard.

I was trying to read into what you said, yes, to understand your point.  I didn't see the lack of effort myself, but regardless, the mere concept of it at this level, at this point in the season, is difficult to accept as possible.  For example, you call out Wandy, but for what exactly?  Obviously its fully presumptive because we couldn't possibly know what he was thinking unless he discussed it with reporters after the fact, but what do you think his mindset was while giving up all of those hits?  And more to the point of your post (I think), what would a Bagwell-led team have done differently that would have led to Wandy somehow pitching into a different outcome?

I'd welcome someone to kick my arse if I did the same on any team I was on.  I needed it on occasion and one time a coach told me to just fucking go home.  Message recieved and appreciated.

And there's the rub... I'd like to believe your attitude at the time is a highly unlikely attitude for any of our guys to take at this point in their career, at this point in the season.  I share the frustration, but I just think you're focused on the wrong thing, that is all.

[Outlawscotty]

I simply said he's not as good as the Astros made him look...

Weird you brought this up.  The Associated Press article in the SA paper led with the headline of 'Astros pitching awakens Diamondbacks' much to my dismay this morning.  I didn't watch the game, but all I needed was that headline.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/stories/MYSA052507.07D.BBNastros.3b48fe8.html

I guess you could say Wandy is not that good either.

[Noe]

I was trying to read into what you said, yes, to understand your point.  I didn't see the lack of effort myself, but regardless, the mere concept of it at this level, at this point in the season, is difficult to accept as possible.

Garner has, on occasion, taken a bat to the bathroom fixtures in his office and destroyed the thing.  His tirade is clearly heard by the team.  He then comes out and talks to the team about giving a much better effort.  Why would he beat up his bathroom with a bat?  Because it's better than taking a bat to certain players for sure.  Sure it's difficult to accept, I am the same... it's very difficult to accept that my favorite team is sleepwalking right now.  Some are giving their all, some are not.  IMHO of course, and some times in Scrap Irons opinion as well.

For example, you call out Wandy, but for what exactly?

For not competing.  Jimmy D mentioned several times that what a pitcher would do in this situation, and Wandy did just the opposite.  He merely gave in.  I don't want to accept that he lacks talent and should be shipped out.  He can do it, he just had his head firmly up his posterior on Thursday and if I'm on his team, I would call him out.  Hell, there were occasions when Roy Oswalt just got sick of MoBerg's play he called him out for it.  Turned out MoBerg was injured and that is why he just couldn't get it done.  If Wandy is hurt, fine... say so.  If he took the mound with less than a commitment to be there, then he needs to have a talking too as well. IMHO of course.

Obviously its fully presumptive because we couldn't possibly know what he was thinking unless he discussed it with reporters after the fact, but what do you think his mindset was while giving up all of those hits?

No, but his approach to pitching wasn't entirely to compete.  Look, I know it sounds presumptuous on my part... but he just didn't pitch as much as just throw the ball and hope for the best on Thursday night.  And that is not good in my book.  He's better than that.

And more to the point of your post (I think), what would a Bagwell-led team have done differently that would have led to Wandy somehow pitching into a different outcome?

A Bagwell led team would call him out privately later.  He would fear going out to the field with less than a commitment to giving his all on said team.  Right now, it's Garner's call to put the hammer down or not because I see some sleep walking through a game.

And there's the rub... I'd like to believe your attitude at the time is a highly unlikely attitude for any of our guys to take at this point in their career, at this point in the season.  I share the frustration, but I just think you're focused on the wrong thing, that is all.

I stand by what I said.  Teams in the major league must have leaders who are willing to call out guys who take the field without the commitment to be there.  Bagwell coined the phrase "Play hard or don't play at all".  Do you think he did so because it *doesn't* happen at this level that some will have a less than 100% effort to compete?  If you do, you're more naive than I am for sure.

[mihoba]

A Bagwell led team would call him out privately later.  He would fear going out to the field with less than a commitment to giving his all on said team.  Right now, it's Garner's call to put the hammer down or not because I see some sleep walking through a game.

Who is the players vocal leader in the clubhouse? Biggio leads by example (a perfect example last night) but who can provide that 'call him out' verbal leadership that damn sure couldn't hurt right now?

What a frustrating week this has been.

[Noe]

Who is the players vocal leader in the clubhouse? Biggio leads by example (a perfect example last night) but who can provide that 'call him out' verbal leadership that damn sure couldn't hurt right now?

What a frustrating week this has been.

Last year, Jason Hirsh came to the ballpark an hour late to the game the day after he got hammered by the Cincinnati Reds for 10 runs in 3 innings of work (from memory).  Many players realized that Hirsh was late to the game, so Biggio took all the contents out of Hirsh's locker and put them away.  He left a single jock strap in his locker and a note that read:

"Respect the game.  Someone lost their job so you could be up here, so take this seriously and be on time."

Hirsh got the message loud and clear from the veteran.  If a couple of guys are going through the motions right now, Ausmus and Biggio will take care of them.