Author Topic: let's try this  (Read 4577 times)

JimR

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let's try this
« on: May 24, 2007, 02:47:20 pm »
Biggio 2B
Loretta/Lamb 3B
Pence CF
Lee LF
Berkman 1B
Scott RF
Ausmus/Q C
Everett SS
P
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JaneDoe

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2007, 02:49:18 pm »
Biggio 2B
Loretta/Lamb 3B
Pence CF
Lee LF
Berkman 1B
Scott RF
Ausmus/Q C
Everett SS
P

Ok. How you gonna get Garner on board?
"My hammy is a little tight. I wish I was like Ausmus. He's Jewish and isn't allowed to have a pulled hamstring."

JimR

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2007, 02:50:35 pm »
Ok. How you gonna get Garner on board?

i stay close to my phone.
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Re: let's try this
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2007, 02:52:15 pm »
Biggio 2B
Loretta/Lamb 3B
Pence CF
Lee LF
Berkman 1B
Scott RF
Ausmus/Q C
Everett SS
P

I am so for this, I can't even tell you.

Want to see me actually reach climax?  No?  I'll tell you anyway.

Loretta 2B
Lamb 3B
Pence CF
Lee LF
Berkman 1B
Scott RF
Ausmus/Q C
Everett SS
P

MusicMan

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2007, 02:56:00 pm »
I think it won't make a shit's difference unless guys start hitting.

Lance Berkman - you're on notice.
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HurricaneDavid

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2007, 02:58:10 pm »
Pence 3 and Berkman 5 temporarily to ride the hot bat?
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JimR

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2007, 02:58:35 pm »
I think it won't make a shit's difference unless guys start hitting.

Lance Berkman - you're on notice.

exactly why he needs to come out of the #3 hole.
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JimR

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2007, 03:05:08 pm »
Pence 3 and Berkman 5 temporarily to ride the hot bat?

maybe temporarily, maybe not. if he keeps getting on, leave him there.

if Lance starts hitting, he drives in runs at 5 and protects Lee.
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Noe

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2007, 04:14:04 pm »
Biggio 2B
Loretta/Lamb 3B
Pence CF
Lee LF
Berkman 1B
Scott RF
Ausmus/Q C
Everett SS
P

Me like!

JackAstro

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2007, 04:27:23 pm »
I'm in. All that I'd ask is that they stick with it for at least 6 games. Let everybody settle into a role and a spot, maybe get some rhythm. I doubt all this lineup twitchiness does much good towards improving performance. I recognize that Garner has had to try just about everything to find some successful mix, but it seems like he's eventually just going to need to shrug and let one stick for a week to see if it's going to work.
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2007, 05:43:17 pm »
Biggio 2B
Loretta/Lamb 3B
Pence CF
Lee LF
Berkman 1B
Scott RF
Ausmus/Q C
Everett SS
P

So in a matter of days you have gone from Pence shouldn't be brought up, to he should be batting 3rd in the lineup?

Does this speak more to changing your mind on PENCE'S!!!! readiness/ability, or is it more a function of the rest of the team stinking up the joint right now?
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2007, 05:45:53 pm »
here is my lineup

Lorretta
Pence
Lee
Berkman
Scott
Biggio
Ausmus
AE

Once CB hits #3K, swap him out for Lamb.
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MRaup

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2007, 05:48:29 pm »
So in a matter of days you have gone from Pence shouldn't be brought up, to he should be batting 3rd in the lineup?

Does this speak more to changing your mind on PENCE'S!!!! readiness/ability, or is it more a function of the rest of the team stinking up the joint right now?

He never once said that Pence shouldn't come up, just like nobody else here said he shouldn't.

He said it smacked of desperation. And it did, and it still does. But he is hitting, so its a moot point right now.

The worry was then (and to a lesser extent still is) that he may start to struggle and it could hurt him long term.

Not that it will, but that it could.

Pence is hot, you ride Pence like the goofy looking horse he is.
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2007, 05:57:48 pm »
mea culpa then, I though JimR was of the opinion that Pence wasn't ready after playing only 20 AAA games.
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MRaup

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2007, 06:01:48 pm »
mea culpa then, I though JimR was of the opinion that Pence wasn't ready after playing only 20 AAA games.

Nah, and the explosion of text wasn't really directed toward you either. (Although props to me for not swearing a lot!)

It was a desperation move though. Awesome that he came up and is killing the ball. Just was worrisome that it coudl spoil our best prospect in the brains.
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JimR

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2007, 06:34:46 pm »
mea culpa then, I though JimR was of the opinion that Pence wasn't ready after playing only 20 AAA games.

that was my opinion (that he was not ready after 20 games). it was was my opinion that it was a PR, desperation move ordered by Drayton. i worried that it could hurt his development like Scott's was hurt. still is my opinion, but they are throwing him enough FBs to keep him from struggling. as long as he is hitting/getting on, ride him. the lineup is more about putting Lance in #5, and Pence gets #3 by default. his speed can be useful there.

Pence is not at all a polished, ready MLB ballplayer. he is riding an incredible hot streak, though, and the team should take advantage of it until reality appears. i believe it will appear. perhaps you don't. i hope you are right.

my bottom line is this: i do not think Pence is this good, but i also only saw him a few games. i hope i am wrong. i do know that if bringing a kid up with only AA experience was not risky, they would do it every time someone had a hot streak in CC. they took a real chance, but so far it is working out. good for Pence. i wish he had Lee had some help.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2007, 07:15:15 pm by Jim R »
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Noe

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2007, 07:29:22 pm »
So in a matter of days you have gone from Pence shouldn't be brought up, to he should be batting 3rd in the lineup?

Does this speak more to changing your mind on PENCE'S!!!! readiness/ability, or is it more a function of the rest of the team stinking up the joint right now?

Both

JimR

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2007, 07:37:38 pm »
Both

i like a lot of things he does--all out hustle, short stroke, covers a lot of ground, runs well, plays hard, make consistent contact

if he does no more than hit line drives and get on, i'm happy with him. his speed will help this team full of station-to-station plodders.
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TheWizard

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2007, 12:04:59 am »
i like a lot of things he does--all out hustle, short stroke, covers a lot of ground, runs well, plays hard, make consistent contact

if he does no more than hit line drives and get on, i'm happy with him. his speed will help this team full of station-to-station plodders.
At this point I'm thinking we could plug in a one-legged schoolgirl at 3B and get more production.
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Mr. Happy

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2007, 04:27:05 am »
I am so for this, I can't even tell you.

Want to see me actually reach climax?  No?  I'll tell you anyway.

Loretta 2B
Lamb 3B
Pence CF
Lee LF
Berkman 1B
Scott RF
Ausmus/Q C
Everett SS
P

This would be a great road lineup. Pigpen will be out there until 3000 at home.
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David in Jackson

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2007, 08:18:15 am »
I think it won't make a shit's difference unless guys start hitting.

Lance Berkman - you're on notice.

That's the truth.
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David in Jackson

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2007, 08:19:55 am »
Biggio 2B
Loretta/Lamb 3B
Pence CF
Lee LF
Berkman 1B
Scott RF
Ausmus/Q C
Everett SS
P

I wouldn't want to move Pence to the #3 slot.   He's been in the bigs less than a month.  Berkman will hit.
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JimR

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2007, 08:54:09 am »
I wouldn't want to move Pence to the #3 slot.   He's been in the bigs less than a month.  Berkman will hit.

you have been saying that for two months, and that is not the point. he is not hitting now, and Pence is.
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David in Jackson

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2007, 09:13:27 am »
you have been saying that for two months, and that is not the point. he is not hitting now, and Pence is.

Well, I still believe he will.  I don't like moving people in and out of the 3-4 slots depending on who's hot.

Do you have concerns about "rushing" Pence or putting too much pressure on him early, or do you think that kind of talk is crap/or that he can handle it?  My preference is not to stick the kid in the 3-hole, but I'd like to hear what you think.
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jaklewein

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2007, 09:17:24 am »
you have been saying that for two months, and that is not the point. he is not hitting now, and Pence is.

Yeah, but couldn't the point be made that it really doesn't matter what the team does if Berkman doesn't hit?  I know shit happens, and when it does, sometimes it smells like roses.  I just don't think this qualifies as such.  Lance must hit or else. 

JimR

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2007, 09:20:04 am »
Well, I still believe he will.  I don't like moving people in and out of the 3-4 slots depending on who's hot.

Do you have concerns about "rushing" Pence or putting too much pressure on him early, or do you think that kind of talk is crap/or that he can handle it?  My preference is not to stick the kid in the 3-hole, but I'd like to hear what you think.

Berkman is not getting the job done after two months. he should be moved. he is no longer the best hitter on the team. maybe he will return to that, but two months is long enough to wait.

i think there is less pressure to drive in runs in the 3 hole than in 4 and 5. all he has to do is hit. his hot streak has been somewhat wasted in the 6 hole.

pressure is way overrated. these guys are professionals. what i worry about is not being able to handle breaking pitches when pitchers figure him out, as they will.
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Noe

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2007, 10:45:48 am »
They moved Bagwell for Berkman one season to get him going and it worked.  And Baggs was put back into the 3 hole when he started to hit again.  Same thing here.  It's not to punish Berkman, it's to help him.

His swing is awful right now (injury related or not, it's just bad) and he isn't driving the ball at all.  Not what you want in the 3 hole.  At. All.

Astroholic

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2007, 10:49:19 am »
They moved Bagwell for Berkman one season to get him going and it worked.  And Baggs was put back into the 3 hole when he started to hit again.  Same thing here.  It's not to punish Berkman, it's to help him.

His swing is awful right now (injury related or not, it's just bad) and he isn't driving the ball at all.  Not what you want in the 3 hole.  At. All.

I really agree with this line of thinking.  He is not a 3 hitter right now.  The team would be better served with him at 5.

Navin R Johnson

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2007, 11:14:31 am »
Lee is the best  hitter on the team, by a pretty healthy margin, why not put him in the 3 spot?
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JimR

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2007, 11:15:13 am »
Lee is the best  hitter on the team, by a pretty healthy margin, why not put him in the 3 spot?

b/c he is a 4.
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2007, 11:34:13 am »
I just like putting your best hitter in the 3 spot.    Lee is the best hitter on the team right now.   He doesn't strike out much it isnt like he is just swinging for the fences.     What makes him solely a 4, especially considering the rest of the pieces on this team?

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2007, 11:55:38 am »
I just like putting your best hitter in the 3 spot.    Lee is the best hitter on the team right now.   He doesn't strike out much it isnt like he is just swinging for the fences.     What makes him solely a 4, especially considering the rest of the pieces on this team?

Among other things, his speed [sic].
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JimR

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2007, 01:05:43 pm »
I just like putting your best hitter in the 3 spot.    Lee is the best hitter on the team right now.   He doesn't strike out much it isnt like he is just swinging for the fences.     What makes him solely a 4, especially considering the rest of the pieces on this team?

Navin, i am not going to argue with you. whatever you say you can write on your napkin.
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Navin R Johnson

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2007, 01:22:40 pm »
It is a Bounty paper towel, not a napkin.   No arguing, just wondering what makes Lee a 4 over a 3  with the way this team is hitting.  I'd rather Lee get more middle of the order AB's than anyone else right now.
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JimR

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Re: let's try this
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2007, 01:25:56 pm »
It is a Bounty paper towel, not a napkin.   No arguing, just wondering what makes Lee a 4 over a 3  with the way this team is hitting.  I'd rather Lee get more middle of the order AB's than anyone else right now.
4 is the middle of the order. he is a HR hitter who cannot run a lick. he is a 4, maybe a 5, but never a 3...not on my team, at least.

and since you asked "what makes a guy a 4?" i wrote this once upon a time:

Leadoff - a guy who can get on base, must be willing to accept walks, must be willing to take pitches in hitters' counts, speed an asset but not a necessity if he can get on base, a good baserunner is a plus
#2 - another on-base spot, should be a good bunter, must be willing to take pitches in steal situations, an ability to hit behind the runner is helpful because this is a hit and run spot
#3 - best hitter on the team, an RBI spot
Cleanup - best power hitter on the team, home runs and RBI expected
#5 - best RBI man on the team, must be able to "pick up" the cleanup hitter if he fails with men on base
#6 - another decent RBI spot, should be the best hitter left of the three remaining starters, having some pop is a plus
#7 - can be an RBI spot if the team has a high on base percentage but does not have to be, usually comes down to the better hitter between the last two remaining players, if this slot produces some runs, the team is doing well
#8 - usually the weakest hitter on the team, must be able to take walks or to get on base enough to keep the pitcher from leading off innings


all of this is my opinion, of course.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2007, 01:33:05 pm by Jim R »
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