roster move

[JimR]

what is the best guess on when? as of last night, RR did not know who they are getting.

[JackAstro]

Between the Thursday and Friday games?

[Noe]

what is the best guess on when? as of last night, RR did not know who they are getting.

Friday morning.  Burke may be back for a while it seems.  Just guessing right now.

[JimR]

Friday morning.  Burke may be back for a while it seems.  Just guessing right now.

they don't think it will be Burke but do not know.

[Noe]

they don't think it will be Burke but do not know.

Hmmmm... then Lane will be traded by Friday sometime.  White will be in uniform on Friday from what I understand.

[MusicMan]

White will be in uniform on Friday from what I understand.

There's a joke somewhere here about taking that long to get him into uniform...

[Noe]

There's a joke somewhere here about taking that long to get him into uniform...

I'm still in shock to learn that White actually had an oblique muscle.

[tophfar]

I'm still in shock to learn that White actually had an oblique muscle.

so was he.

[pravata]

what is the best guess on when? as of last night, RR did not know who they are getting.

This is the biggest story regarding the Astros right now.  And all the local craphounds can write about is Clemens and whether Loretta should be playing short.  Not a peep or scrap of any information on this.

[Noe]

so was he.

So they said, he hurt it.  Oh wait... I get it... a phantom injury, get Thunder Pants up... create havoc... RULE THE WORLD!!! Muhahahaahahaa... *cough*.... sorry.

[pravata]

This is the biggest story regarding the Astros right now.  And all the local craphounds can write about is Clemens and whether Loretta should be playing short.  Not a peep or scrap of any information on this.

Wait, I was wrong,  Carleton Cole/ KHOU Channel 11 Sports Executive Producer filed this nugget

LHP Rick White could rejoin the Astros when they return to Houston on Friday to open a homestand, manager Phil Garner said.
Link

And of course Footer Link

McTaggert writes that the Astros will likely carry 12 pitchers but that Garner has become "comfortable" with 11.  So he's covered.

[JimR]

Wait, I was wrong,  Carleton Cole/ KHOU Channel 11 Sports Executive Producer filed this nugget

LHP Rick White could rejoin the Astros when they return to Houston on Friday to open a homestand, manager Phil Garner said.
Link

so, to protect his oblique, he will pitch LH? cool.

[Spider Pellini]

so, to protect his oblique, he will pitch LH? cool.

Wait 'til somone tells him he's got one of them obliques on the wrong side too.

[Foghorn]

so, to protect his oblique, he will pitch LH? cool.

I'd hate to see Burke sent down since he's the only bench guy with speed and can play a multitude of positions.  I'd lean towards sending out one of the pitchers.

[tophfar]

So they said, he hurt it.  Oh wait... I get it... a phantom injury, get Thunder Pants up... create havoc... RULE THE WORLD!!! Muhahahaahahaa... *cough*.... sorry.

heh, i was thinking more in terms of....physique. 

i can just imagine him in the trainers office.  "a what?  like abs?  have you seen me?"

[Matt]

I think Albers' pitching performance tomorrow could determine what happens with Moehler.

[utastro]

I'd hate to see Burke sent down since he's the only bench guy with speed and can play a multitude of positions.  I'd lean towards sending out one of the pitchers.

Like Rick White.

[JimR]

Like Rick White.

absolutely not. he has been great.

[Lurch]

absolutely not. he has been great.

Send Pence!!! back down and watch the sky fall.  Get presented with the first annual Balls O' Steel award.

[Amy]

I'd hate to see Burke sent down since he's the only bench guy with speed and can play a multitude of positions.  I'd lean towards sending out one of the pitchers.

Doesn't "sending out" either Moehler or White come with the risk of losing them to another team?  There are enough teams out there desperate for relief pitching (the Reds for one) that if either of those guys has to be exposed to waivers, I'm sure we will lose them.  I hate to lose any effective pitcher.

[Limey]

Doesn't "sending out" either Moehler or White come with the risk of losing them to another team?  There are enough teams out there desperate for relief pitching (the Reds for one) that if either of those guys has to be exposed to waivers, I'm sure we will lose them.  I hate to lose any effective pitcher.

...then, sans a trade for Lane (for which only prospects come in return), the only other option is to send down PENCE!! and put Burke back in the line up every day and in CF every half inning.  I think I'd rather lose an effective reliever.

[homer]

...then, sans a trade for Lane (for which only prospects come in return), the only other option is to send down PENCE!! and put Burke back in the line up every day and in CF every half inning.  I think I'd rather lose an effective reliever.

Why couldn't they trade a reliever?

[Lefty]

McTaggert writes that the Astros will likely carry 12 pitchers but that Garner has become "comfortable" with 11.  So he's covered.

In fairness to McTaggart, Gar's not giving him a whole lot to work with:

"We don't know yet what we're going to do," manager Phil Garner said.

[Amy]

...then, sans a trade for Lane (for which only prospects come in return), the only other option is to send down PENCE!! and put Burke back in the line up every day and in CF every half inning.  I think I'd rather lose an effective reliever.

Can't they send Burke down?  Let him start in CF in Round Rock and try to get a clue how to play the position.

[WulawHorn]

I saw some back and forth, and some quoting of the rules, but wasn't smart enough to follow it. Can Burke get sent down w/o having to clear waivers?

If so that's my hope as to what happens- that guy is really "redundant" as Noe has tagged Lane (though I agree with that sentiment re Lane).

He can't play CF. He can't play right. He can't play short. We have Biggio and Loretta to play second. He hasn't hit with power off the bench (we have lane for that) he's not a great contact hitter (we have OP for that and Loretta is a better bet too- from the same side of the plate).  Loretta is the guy to spell Bidge on his off days

What does he bring to the team and what role is he filling right now?

[Amy]

I saw some back and forth, and some quoting of the rules, but wasn't smart enough to follow it. Can Burke get sent down w/o having to clear waivers?

I wasn't sure, but in the Footer article linked earlier in this thread, she says the following:

Lane would have to pass through option waivers before he could be sent to the Minor Leagues. Burke, Scott and Pence could be sent down without risking losing them.

[homer]

Can't they send Burke down?  Let him start in CF in Round Rock and try to get a clue how to play the position.

With what goal? To come back and play CF for the Astros? It seems that Gunther is there for the long haul. A trip to RR wouldn't serve much of a purpose for Burke.

[Lefty]

I saw some back and forth, and some quoting of the rules, but wasn't smart enough to follow it. Can Burke get sent down w/o having to clear waivers?

Yes.

Homer:  what purpose does he serve on the Astros roster right now?

[TheWizard]

With what goal? To come back and play CF for the Astros? It seems that Gunther is there for the long haul. A trip to RR wouldn't serve much of a purpose for Burke.

Its a tough spot for him.  He lost his job to a rookie player learning the CF position himself, albeit the fact its a good looking rookie.  Pence is still learning the ropes of MLB hitting and working on his CF play all at the same time... but still has the job over Burke.  Doesn't bode well for Burke, for the reasons others have listed.  He doesn't have much or a role that isn't already filled.

[Amy]

With what goal? To come back and play CF for the Astros? It seems that Gunther is there for the long haul. A trip to RR wouldn't serve much of a purpose for Burke.

It's a long season.  Maybe Pence will start to struggle and need to be sent down.  Maybe injuries will create a need for Burke to play CF.  In any event, we don't seem to have any use for him on the big club right now, Burke probably should be playing every day to at least try to get him right at the plate and there isn't likely to be a lot of playing time for him at 2B until next year.

[Phil_in_CS]

If Burke, Scott, and Pence have options, and Burke is the 2B of the future, what makes sense is to get Burke to RR at 2B and play him everyday. He's had very little time at 2B in the last couple years.

[homer]

Yes.

Homer:  what purpose does he serve on the Astros roster right now?

5 games with 4 PAs since being removed from CF (4/27). He doesn't seem to serve any purpose.

My point was that if he was sent to RR, having him learn CF would be pointless.

[homer]

If Burke, Scott, and Pence have options, and Burke is the 2B of the future, what makes sense is to get Burke to RR at 2B and play him everyday. He's had very little time at 2B in the last couple years.

This makes the most sense if he was sent down, but I don't know who is playing there now and how that would be affected.

[homer]

It's a long season.  Maybe Pence will start to struggle and need to be sent down.  Maybe injuries will create a need for Burke to play CF.  In any event, we don't seem to have any use for him on the big club right now, Burke probably should be playing every day to at least try to get him right at the plate and there isn't likely to be a lot of playing time for him at 2B until next year.

If Pence goes down (injury or otherwise), and Lane isn't gone, I think he plays center for a spot start.

Somebody reported that Bruntlett was playing every day in RR since Pence left, and I think he would be a longer term solution if necessary.

[Lefty]

This makes the most sense if he was sent down, but I don't know who is playing there now and how that would be affected.

Gotcha.  Brooks Conrad has played some 3rd in the past, and I think a little LF.

[das]

I never, never, never wade into trade discussions and we're all about to probably find out why. Would it make sense to ring somebody like, say, the Reds and dangle Moehler in front of them?  Might turn out well for the Astros, a corpse less than 24 hours old would be better than what they have and would probably mean some steady playing time for Brian. They (or any team in a similar position) have any thing we like?

[JimR]

If Pence goes down (injury or otherwise), and Lane isn't gone, I think he plays center for a spot start.

Somebody reported that Bruntlett was playing every day in RR since Pence left, and I think he would be a longer term solution if necessary.

did you mean every day in CF?

[homer]

did you mean every day in CF?

Yeah.

[JimR]

Yeah.

he probably played almost as much CF as Pence did before Pence went up.

[JaneDoe]

Played SS today.

[JimR]

Played SS today.

probably his worst position. he's become a pretty good OFer.

[JimR]

Can't they send Burke down?  Let him start in CF in Round Rock and try to get a clue how to play the position.

total waste of time. try having a good idea every once in a while...like trading Mo or Burke or Lane.

[JimR]

It's a long season.  Maybe Pence will start to struggle and need to be sent down. 

START to struggle? that is pretty much all he has done.

if they are going to leave Pence in and take their lumps, fine. if not, send him back to RR to play CF every day.

i'm still hoping for a trade.

[JaneDoe]

i'm still hoping for a trade.

You want to trade Pence?  or you want to trade for a CF and move Pence to RR?

[JimR]

You want to trade Pence?

no!

Mo/Burke/Lane are my trade bait.

[JaneDoe]

no!

Mo/Burke/Lane are my trade bait.

So what do you want to trade for? Pitching? 3b? outfield?

[JimR]

So what do you want to trade for? Pitching? 3b? outfield?

shit, i don't know. a starter first, i guess. a CF who can hit a little would be nice.

with those three, probably all we get is minor leaguers.

[JaneDoe]

What do you think it would take to get Miguel Cabrera (3B) from the Marlins?  Just curious.

[TangerineDream]

If Burke, Scott, and Pence have options, and Burke is the 2B of the future, what makes sense is to get Burke to RR at 2B and play him everyday. He's had very little time at 2B in the last couple years.

Makes sense and get him some time at the plate too. He's just getting rusty right now riding the pine. Lane is a nice defensive option to have with Pence in centerfield. He certainly had a nice night Tuesday and perhaps he deserves a bit more time to see if he can continue the trend.

[JimR]

What do you think it would take to get Miguel Cabrera (3B) from the Marlins?  Just curious.

a Brinks truck with money and automatic weapons?

i have no idea.

[JimR]

Makes sense and get him some time at the plate too. He's just getting rusty right now riding the pine. Lane is a nice defensive option to have with Pence in centerfield. He certainly had a nice night Tuesday and perhaps he deserves a bit more time to see if he can continue the trend.

RR does not think it will be Burke.

[Fredia]

a Brinks truck with money and automatic weapons?

have you been driving by clemens house again?

[The Spleen]

have you been driving by clemens house again?

We'll need garlic, crucifixes and holy water for that job...

[Mr. Happy]

no!

Mo/Burke/Lane are my trade bait.

Agree 100% Coach. I haven't checked to see how the Angels muddled 3B situation is progressing. I know that Figgins was on the DL for awhile, but recently came off.

[HudsonHawk]

If Burke, Scott, and Pence have options, and Burke is the 2B of the future, what makes sense is to get Burke to RR at 2B and play him everyday. He's had very little time at 2B in the last couple years.

I'm not sure why everyone thinks Burke is the 2B of the future.  Honestly.  Craig Biggio, right now at aged 42, is a better player than Burke will ever be.  There are dozens of Chris Burkes available every single year.  Why the Burke manlove continues is a mystery to me. 

[BudGirl]

Lane is going to be traded.  I don't know to who or for whom.  My reasoning you wonder (you probably don't but you can read it anyway).

A friend is buying a house in the same subdivision as Lane and any chance I'd have of spying needs to be eliminated by the BBGs ASAP.

[Phil_in_CS]

I'm not sure why everyone thinks Burke is the 2B of the future.

That's just how I hear him presented. I agree he doesn't seem to have anything special, and the people in RR say Conrad is good also.

[Jacksonian]

he probably played almost as much CF as Pence did before Pence went up.

Pence started nine straight games in center before his callup.  Before that he split center with Brunt.  Since Pence's callup Brunt has started in center every game except yesterday.

[Fredia]

Pence started nine straight games in center before his callup.  Before that he split center with Brunt.  Since Pence's callup Brunt has started in center every game except yesterday.

has a team ever had such a glut of people to play center field before

[pravata]

has a team ever had such a glut of people to play center field before

If by "glut" you mean none.  Yes.

[WulawHorn]

has a team ever had such a glut of people to play center field before

If by glut of people you to play you mean bodies they throw at an important defensive position that are miscast and can't handle the situation then I'd say no- I can't remember anyone this cavalier about that position.

[Gizzmonic]

It's rough.  The Astros hadn't had a real CF before Beltran, and he and Tavares really hammered the point home how important it is to have a true CF at Minute Maid Park.  Defense up the middle, offense from the corners...

[Taras Bulba]

It's rough.  The Astros hadn't had a real CF before Beltran, and he and Tavares really hammered the point home how important it is to have a true CF at Minute Maid Park.  Defense up the middle, offense from the corners...

They had a guy named Cesar Cedeno who was a pretty good ballplayer.

[BudGirl]

They had a guy named Cesar Cedeno who was a pretty good ballplayer.

He played CF in MMP?

[Taras Bulba]

He played CF in MMP?

Yeah, after hours he would roam around the place looking for his career.

It would have been interesting to see him tackling Tal's mound of joy.

[ValpoCory]

I think Albers' pitching performance tomorrow could determine what happens with Moehler.

This could prove to be true.

[Froback]

i'm still hoping for a trade.

I did a very quick search of teams that might need an OFer and a 2B and this list isn't all that long, here is what I came up with and a quick mention of a prospect or 2 from each team.  Take with a MASSIVE grain of salt, cause I doubt any of these prospects are easy to get.

BTW, I considered a trade of Lane and Burke as the baseline:

Team
OF current
2B current
Prospect (wild ass guessing on my part)

Minn:
Jason Tyner
Luis Castillo
Prospects: Alexi Casilla (could be 2B replacement for Biggio, but has Luis Castillo type power)
Oak:
Chris Snelling (Travis Buck was playing for him, and was #1 prospect according to BBA)
Mark Ellis - 30 yrs old
Prospects: Kurt Suzuki (catcher), Matt Sulentic (Oak took him 1 pick ahead of Astros in 06)
Tex:
Brad Wilkerson
Ian Kinsler - no need for Burke
Prospects: Umm, nobody that I could find right away, maybe Eric Hurley
Fla:
Joe Borchard
Dan Uggla - no need for Burke
Prospects: Maybe Gaby Sanchez
SD:
Termel Sledge
Marcus Giles - Would they upset Brian's brother?
Prospects: Matt Antonelli (only because Kouzmanoff might block him at 3B)

This list is by no means exhaustive and mostly a pointless effort, but at least maybe the teams that MIGHT be trade partners can be seen from this list if indeed Lane and Burke are being offered.  And I doubt the Astros get a ML ready player in return, so kept options to strickly prospects.  I am sure there are more options than I have listed, but I never claimed to be an expert.

[Randy Watson]

I would lose Palmeiro or Trever Miller.

[BudGirl]

I would lose Palmeiro or Trever Miller.

Exhibit A as to why you aren't a GM.

[Outlawscotty]

I would lose Palmeiro or Trever Miller.

Cova yaw earahs dawlin....

[JaneDoe]

I would lose Palmeiro or Trever Miller.

How about Berkman? or maybe Oswalt?

[Randy Watson]

Explain?  

Palmeiro was terrible last year -- stuck out way too much for a guy who supposedly is a contact hitter (17 K's against 4 walks in 119 at bats).  He is batting .154 this year and we hardly use him.  He is a horrible defender.  He is 38 years old and is declining.  For a guy who is supposed to be an ace pinch hitter, he is -- next to Quintero -- the last option off the bench.  Again, why keep him if you don't want to use him.  Bruntlett would help out a lot more than Palmeiro.  He is faster and has more pop and can play almost any position, many very well and would be a great defensive replacement.

Miller has pitched 9 innings this year.  If we aren't going to use him, why keep him?

[JimR]

I would lose Palmeiro or Trever Miller.

and you are dumb.

read more, post way less.

[pravata]

I think Albers' pitching performance tomorrow could determine what happens with Moehler.

This was an excellent observation.  I glossed over it until yesterday.  Could very well be the solution to a very sticky problem.  Garner was saying yesterday that Albers needs to be more consistent and that Moehlers did a very good job. 

[Randy Watson]

How about Berkman? or maybe Oswalt?

Yep, when I think of Roy Oswalt and Berkman, Trever Miller and Palmeiro come to mind immediately.  

[Frobie]

Miller has pitched 9 innings this year.  If we aren't going to use him, why keep him?

Oooooh!  Oh! Oh!  I know this one.  Pick me!

He's a lefty.  Only pitched 9 innings but has appeared in 17 games.  Granted he's not done well so far but he started off slowly last year too and did quite nicely after that.

[JimR]

Oooooh!  Oh! Oh!  I know this one.  Pick me!

He's a lefty.  Only pitched 9 innings but has appeared in 17 games.  Granted he's not done well so far but he started off slowly last year too and did quite nicely after that.

ignore him. maybe the next post will be not dumb.

[pravata]

Explain?  

Palmeiro was terrible last year -- stuck out way too much for a guy who supposedly is a contact hitter (17 K's against 4 walks in 119 at bats).  He is batting .154 this year and we hardly use him.  He is a horrible defender.  He is 38 years old and is declining.  For a guy who is supposed to be an ace pinch hitter, he is -- next to Quintero -- the last option off the bench.  Again, why keep him if you don't want to use him.  Bruntlett would help out a lot more than Palmeiro.  He is faster and has more pop and can play almost any position, many very well and would be a great defensive replacement.

Miller has pitched 9 innings this year.  If we aren't going to use him, why keep him?

For the first part of the question, what do you think is the duties and responsibilities of the 25th man on the team?  The answer to the 2nd part is Adam Dunn, Ken Griffey Jr., Jim Edmonds, Prince Fielder, Geoff Jenkins and Cliff Floyd.

[WulawHorn]

Explain?  

Palmeiro was terrible last year -- stuck out way too much for a guy who supposedly is a contact hitter (17 K's against 4 walks in 119 at bats).  He is batting .154 this year and we hardly use him.  He is a horrible defender.  He is 38 years old and is declining.  For a guy who is supposed to be an ace pinch hitter, he is -- next to Quintero -- the last option off the bench.  Again, why keep him if you don't want to use him.  Bruntlett would help out a lot more than Palmeiro.  He is faster and has more pop and can play almost any position, many very well and would be a great defensive replacement.

Miller has pitched 9 innings this year.  If we aren't going to use him, why keep him?

IP's don't matter for LOOGY's they need to be judged by apperances- as by definition they are on the roster to get out the best lefty, in the most important situation- 1 time.

Palmero is your best contact guy off the bench.  10%k rate is not bad for a pinch hitter- considering he is ab cold off the bench, late in the game- against their relief ace. These guys in relief almost all strike out 10 guys per nine innings- or in other words- 1/3 outs come via K.  10% K's against guys that get 33% of their outs via K's in those situations, make you a good contact hitter.

I predict bidge might strike out 35-50% of the time against closers, who almost always are looking for punch outs in high intensity positions, have the best stuff on the team, and are amped up and don't have to worry about "saving" their energy for the next hitter/inning.

[Bench]

Palmeiro was terrible last year -- stuck out way too much for a guy who supposedly is a contact hitter (17 K's against 4 walks in 119 at bats).  

I think this is a tremendously valid point. He definately doesn't walk enough for a contact hitter. That's some fantastic insight.

[HudsonHawk]

Miller has pitched 9 innings this year.  If we aren't going to use him, why keep him?

Miller leads the staff in appearances.  But how many more would justify in your mind keeping him around?

[Phil_in_CS]

Is there a deadline on the roster move? game time tonight?

[Limey]

Is there a deadline on the roster move? game time tonight?

He went on the 15-day on 4/26, so that would make today D-Day.

[HudsonHawk]

He went on the 15-day on 4/26, so that would make today D-Day.

Today is the earliest they can bring him back, but there is no "deadline" for doing so.  They can keep him on the DL as long as they want, they just can't activate him until the 15 days are up.