Deshaies on Oswalt

[Taras Bulba]

I *think* that I heard Deshaies comment that all of the hits off Oswalt were on 0-2 counts, and that he thought that Oswalt was probably well above the league average in that regard.  Obviously, his aggressive nature counts for a lot of it, however, it would be interesting to know if he and/or Ausmus have considered locating a little more off the plate on 0-2. 

Of course, if Houston was performing a tad better in the offensive department, this wouldn't even be a point of discussion. 

[Limey]

I *think* that I heard Deshaies comment that all of the hits off Oswalt were on 0-2 counts, and that he thought that Oswalt was probably well above the league average in that regard.  Obviously, his aggressive nature counts for a lot of it, however, it would be interesting to know if he and/or Ausmus have considered locating a little more off the plate on 0-2. 

Of course, if Houston was performing a tad better in the offensive department, this wouldn't even be a point of discussion. 

Maybe he's just a very good pitcher who gets a lot of hitters down 0-2...

[Mr. Happy]

I *think* that I heard Deshaies comment that all of the hits off Oswalt were on 0-2 counts, and that he thought that Oswalt was probably well above the league average in that regard.  Obviously, his aggressive nature counts for a lot of it, however, it would be interesting to know if he and/or Ausmus have considered locating a little more off the plate on 0-2. 

Of course, if Houston was performing a tad better in the offensive department, this wouldn't even be a point of discussion. 

I'm pretty sure that I heard the same thing. That's usually one of my pet peeves, going back to several specific bad Astros examples of 0-2 flatline pitches to pitchers in the past. Both were hit well over 400 feet. One was hit by that animal Carlos Zambrano in my presence off of WaMi. The other also was hit in my presence by former Astros pitcher Tom Griffin off of a then young Floyd Bannister at the end of Griffin's career. There's just very few good reasons in my opinion to throw anything close on 0-2.

[mihoba]

On 0-2 counts, Roy has allowed a .273 batting average against in 2007. That seems high and the point JD was making.

In his career, however, it is .187.

[Mr. Happy]

On 0-2 counts, Roy has allowed a .273 batting average against in 2007. That seems high and the point JD was making.

In his career, however, it is .187.

M

You're fucking incredible.

[Foghorn]

M

You're fucking incredible.

The pitch to Dunn was just a mistake in terms of location.  With that windbag up there, I'm sure neither Oswalt nor Ausmus wanted the pitch anywhere near the strike zone. 

Betcha it evens out before too long.

[pravata]

I *think* that I heard Deshaies comment that all of the hits off Oswalt were on 0-2 counts, and that he thought that Oswalt was probably well above the league average in that regard.  Obviously, his aggressive nature counts for a lot of it, however, it would be interesting to know if he and/or Ausmus have considered locating a little more off the plate on 0-2. 

Of course, if Houston was performing a tad better in the offensive department, this wouldn't even be a point of discussion. 

He is deliberately and aggressively trying to keep the pitch count low.  Might be throwing more 2 strike strikes because of that.

[Phil_in_CS]

He is deliberately and aggressively trying to keep the pitch count low.  Might be throwing more 2 strike strikes because of that.

Can't blame him for wanting to stay in the game the way the bullpen has been so far.

[pravata]

Can't blame him for wanting to stay in the game the way the bullpen has been so far.

They've been pretty good.  The Opening Game was the only game of his that the pen let get away.

[UnholyToledo]

Overstating the obvious here but pitchers trying to throw balls often miss into the strike zone just like pitchers trying to throw strikes miss out of the strike zone. 

I would think that with the count 0-2, with no one on base, pitchers/catchers are typically trying to do one of these things:
(1) miss close enough to prompt a swing and go for the K right there and then
(2) miss to set up a particular pitch later in the count
(3) not miss at all but induce an out anyway

I'm sure they're not always mutually exclusive but I wonder which case this was. I saw the highlight but didn't notice, what type of pitch was it that he hit out?

[subnuclear]

Two questions:

1) When is keeping the pitch count low not good strategy?

2) What is the batting average this season after Oswalt throws two pitches of any type?  Maybe they need a couple of pitches to get the timing and Oswalt happens to throw a lot of strikes.

[pravata]

Overstating the obvious here but pitchers trying to throw balls often miss into the strike zone just like pitchers trying to throw strikes miss out of the strike zone. 

I would think that with the count 0-2, with no one on base, pitchers/catchers are typically trying to do one of these things:
(1) miss close enough to prompt a swing and go for the K right there and then
(2) miss to set up a particular pitch later in the count
(3) not miss at all but induce an out anyway

I'm sure they're not always mutually exclusive but I wonder which case this was. I saw the highlight but didn't notice, what type of pitch was it that he hit out?

3 would be the answer.  Roy ain't nibbling this season.  He's going right at them. 

"You learn that you can save a lot of pitches if you keep the pitch count down and try to get deep into games," Oswalt said. "Strikeouts don't matter. Wins are the only thing that matter to me."

"I really love him as a fan," said Reds first baseman Scott Hatteberg. "...He comes at you and just pounds the strike zone. He's got good pitches but he's really aggressive. He's got that mentality. He's coming right at you. ..." Link

[mihoba]

1-1 count .231
2-0 count .000 (small sample size here)

as mentioned, 0-2 was actually .257  after 0-2 was .273  (maybe a foul on 0-2?)

[JimR]

Overstating the obvious here but pitchers trying to throw balls often miss into the strike zone just like pitchers trying to throw strikes miss out of the strike zone. 

I would think that with the count 0-2, with no one on base, pitchers/catchers are typically trying to do one of these things:
(1) miss close enough to prompt a swing and go for the K right there and then
(2) miss to set up a particular pitch later in the count
(3) not miss at all but induce an out anyway

I'm sure they're not always mutually exclusive but I wonder which case this was. I saw the highlight but didn't notice, what type of pitch was it that he hit out?

a fat one.

[pravata]

Two questions:

1) When is keeping the pitch count low not good strategy?

2) What is the batting average this season after Oswalt throws two pitches of any type?  Maybe they need a couple of pitches to get the timing and Oswalt happens to throw a lot of strikes.

There's a lot of pitchers you could ask question 1.  I see 0-2 turn to 3-2 all the time.

[UnholyToledo]

a fat one.

nicely done.

[Bench]

There's a lot of pitchers you could ask question 1.  I see 0-2 turn to 3-2 all the time.

And 3-0 turn to 3-3 all the time when Morgan is at bat.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Broadening the topic, but still focusing on Oswalt, who gets credit for his devotion to this approach?  Wallace?  Isn't this what Oswalt has always done?  I guess I'm not sure why Deshais brought it up other than the anomaly of BAA when Roy has the hitter 0-2. 

As for Wallace, while I'm not totally sure he deserves all the credit, this pitching staff has been solid.  I'm going to make a sacrifice to the BBGs, this evening, in thanks for their generosity. 

[Gizzmonic]

I *think* that I heard Deshaies comment that all of the hits off Oswalt were on 0-2 counts, and that he thought that Oswalt was probably well above the league average in that regard.  Obviously, his aggressive nature counts for a lot of it, however, it would be interesting to know if he and/or Ausmus have considered locating a little more off the plate on 0-2. 

Of course, if Houston was performing a tad better in the offensive department, this wouldn't even be a point of discussion. 

Oswalt's approach works, plain and simple.  Maybe a larger proportion of his hits are given up on 0-2 than league average.  So what?  He gets ahead of guys, forces them to swing the bat, and puts them away.  That's why he's the best pitcher in the NL.  Why mess with success?

[Fredia]

Oswalt's approach works, plain and simple.  Maybe a larger proportion of his hits are given up on 0-2 than league average.  So what?  He gets ahead of guys, forces them to swing the bat, and puts them away.  That's why he's the best pitcher in the NL.  Why mess with success?

glad to see he is back. that game last night had to be a big boost in the teams morale. i so agrre on the why mess comment . he is the best

[Noe]

Broadening the topic, but still focusing on Oswalt, who gets credit for his devotion to this approach?  Wallace?  Isn't this what Oswalt has always done?  I guess I'm not sure why Deshais brought it up other than the anomaly of BAA when Roy has the hitter 0-2. 

As for Wallace, while I'm not totally sure he deserves all the credit, this pitching staff has been solid.  I'm going to make a sacrifice to the BBGs, this evening, in thanks for their generosity. 

The approach to pitching on 0-2 counts actually was taught to Houston pitchers a while back by none other than Burt Hooton.  His philosophy was that 0-2 didn't automatically mean to nibble at corners to try and get hitters to get themselves out.  He preached going right back after the hitter with a good solid fastball well located in order to maximize your pitches per innings.  Dewey Robinson also picked up on some of that because he was the one who created the Houston Astros pitching bible taught to all minor leaguers in terms of what they are expected to do in their development through the ranks of the Astros farm system.  Robsinson refined the Pitching bible from a first draft created by Vern Ruhle and several other coaches in the minors (Billingham?).  One of the staples of the bible is to keep your Pitches Per Inning ration at or around 11 pitches.  You can't do that if you nibble at corners, so even at 0-2 counts, Houston minor leaguers are taught to go ahead and try to make a good pitch to get the hitter out.

It is important to do this according to the development that the Astros staff has proposed.

[EasTexAstro]

Doesn't it also help that the batter knows he can't lay off 0-2. I know the batter shoudl be protecting the plate on those occasions, and should be ready to swing anyway, but with Roy, he could be trhowing anything 0-2.

[Noe]

Doesn't it also help that the batter knows he can't lay off 0-2. I know the batter shoudl be protecting the plate on those occasions, and should be ready to swing anyway, but with Roy, he could be trhowing anything 0-2.

He developed his sinker just for this situation.  He started to refine it at Round Rock when then pitching coach Burt Hooton taught him the value of quick innings.  Roy was a high strikeout guy prior to that incarnation.

[UnholyToledo]

The approach to pitching on 0-2 counts actually was taught to Houston pitchers a while back by none other than Burt Hooton.  His philosophy was that 0-2 didn't automatically mean to nibble at corners to try and get hitters to get themselves out.  He preached going right back after the hitter with a good solid fastball well located in order to maximize your pitches per innings.  Dewey Robinson also picked up on some of that because he was the one who created the Houston Astros pitching bible taught to all minor leaguers in terms of what they are expected to do in their development through the ranks of the Astros farm system.  Robsinson refined the Pitching bible from a first draft created by Vern Ruhle and several other coaches in the minors (Billingham?).  One of the staples of the bible is to keep your Pitches Per Inning ration at or around 11 pitches.  You can't do that if you nibble at corners, so even at 0-2 counts, Houston minor leaguers are taught to go ahead and try to make a good pitch to get the hitter out.

It is important to do this according to the development that the Astros staff has proposed.

Interesting stuff.  I'm curious, if and how the approach varies based on the situation...men on base, number of outs, etc.  Or is it a case of, "the simplest approach is always the best".

[Noe]

Interesting stuff.  I'm curious, if and how the approach varies based on the situation...men on base, number of outs, etc.  Or is it a case of, "the simplest approach is always the best".

I think it doesn't matter, but admit I am not familiar of any nuances of the basics taught to Astros minor league pitchers.  I would be a good interview one day for us to line up a minor leaguer at each stage of development to compare notes on what they learn each step of the way.  Although that is a pretty huge task to undertake and may not be something they want to share any way.

[Arky Vaughan]

On 0-2 counts, Roy has allowed a .273 batting average against in 2007. That seems high and the point JD was making.

In his career, however, it is .187.

The N.L. as a whole is .183 on a two-strike count.

[Noe]

The N.L. as a whole is .183 on a two-strike count.

0-and-2 or just 2 strikes?

[Arky Vaughan]

0-and-2 or just 2 strikes?

Two strikes. Couldn't find just 0-2.

[Mr. Happy]

Noe and Arky:

You guys are just so quick with the book. You're both amazing.

Paul

[Noe]

Noe and Arky:

You guys are just so quick with the book. You're both amazing.

Paul

Spoken like a truly happy fellow.  Thanks.