Author Topic: Purpura brings up Pence  (Read 45705 times)

JaneDoe

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Purpura brings up Pence
« on: April 27, 2007, 10:23:26 pm »
He says he is dissapointed to do this now, will hurt Pence to not play everyday.

Palillo must be having multiple orgasms about right now.

The live press conference/postgame on FSN Houston right now.

Garner not putting him in a specific lineup position, says he is gonna shake it up some.  Will go to 11 pitchers.  Did not say who is going down, yet.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 11:27:26 pm by JaneDoe »
"My hammy is a little tight. I wish I was like Ausmus. He's Jewish and isn't allowed to have a pulled hamstring."

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2007, 10:25:32 pm »
He says he is dissapointed to do this now, will hurt Pence to not play everyday.

Pallilo must be having multiple orgasms about right now.

Where did you see/hear this?

Jacksonian

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2007, 10:26:02 pm »
Where did you see/hear this?

It's on the tv post-game show.

ETA: I'm surprised I was right.  He was getting a crash course in CF the last nine games at RR.
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gwat

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2007, 10:26:28 pm »
post game interview, right now.

Alkie

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2007, 10:28:47 pm »
Can some one catch us up on what we've missed?

gwat

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2007, 10:29:40 pm »
fsn houston direct tv 639

Alkie

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2007, 10:30:32 pm »
Man, I hate to say this, but this fucking wreaks of desperation.   According to just about everyone, he ain't ready.

I hate Burke and want to see him removed, but not for Pence...right now.

Wow. 

This is Purpura's last year here.  I'll put money down on that.

gwat

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2007, 10:30:54 pm »
apparently Pence up and in. Possibly more moves to come.

JaneDoe

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2007, 10:31:15 pm »
Can some one catch us up on what we've missed?

Gonna put Burke in more of a utility role.  Garner and Purp just kept saying (over and over) how much they did not want to have to do this now.  Purp said that he talked to Nolan Ryan about him and Ryan thought he was ready. 
"My hammy is a little tight. I wish I was like Ausmus. He's Jewish and isn't allowed to have a pulled hamstring."

Alkie

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2007, 10:32:40 pm »
Man, I hope Nolan is right.  I really, really do.

JaneDoe

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2007, 10:32:50 pm »
Man, I hate to say this, but this fucking wreaks of desperation. 

The looks on the faces of Garner and Purp looked pretty desperate in the post game interview.  Like their favorite hunting dog had just been shot.
"My hammy is a little tight. I wish I was like Ausmus. He's Jewish and isn't allowed to have a pulled hamstring."

Jacksonian

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2007, 10:33:43 pm »
Gonna put Burke in more of a utility role.  Garner and Purp just kept saying (over and over) how much they did not want to have to do this now.  Purp said that he talked to Nolan Ryan about him and Ryan thought he was ready. 

Well, Purp's not going to say Pence isn't ready, but we're doing it anyway.

I missed the pitcher being sent out.  Who was it?
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2007, 10:33:52 pm »
Frigging FSN missed the beginning of the press conference, so we didn't hear exactly what the move was.  Pence is being called up and apparently Burke is going to the bench.  I heard Gar say something about going to 11 pitchers.  I didn't hear what pitcher was moved.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2007, 10:35:01 pm »
I agree with the desperation angle.

Garner and Purp must have just been pulling their hair out over Burke behind the scenes.

ETA: I hope Pence is a more consistent hitter this year because it was about 2 weeks into May last year that his bat went dead silent.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2007, 10:35:20 pm »
So Burke stays up and Astros go with 11 pitchers, still no word on who goes down?
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Alkie

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2007, 10:35:28 pm »
The looks on the faces of Garner and Purp looked pretty desperate in the post game interview.  Like their favorite hunting dog had just been shot.

I gotta be honest, I'm in total shock.

One of the cool things about the Houston Astros is that they don't do stupid shit.  They don't make stupid trades.  They don't make rash decisions.  They don't do things because the media or the fans think they should.

This feels different.  I'm very excited about Pence.  In the future.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2007, 10:37:52 pm »
If they wanted to get Burke out of center and make a change, they should have traded for a CF.  Didn't have to be a great CF.  Just a ML CF.

This scares me more than Burke did.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2007, 10:38:46 pm »
I have NEVER seen that look in Garners eyes.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2007, 10:40:12 pm »
I am confused about a few things though.  How is Pence going to help Twinkie start seeing the ball better?  How is he going to help Ensberg hit like a middle of the order batter?  How is Pence going to make Lane a mlb hitter and Scott a consistent hitter?
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JaneDoe

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2007, 10:41:42 pm »
Frigging FSN missed the beginning of the press conference, so we didn't hear exactly what the move was.  Pence is being called up and apparently Burke is going to the bench.  I heard Gar say something about going to 11 pitchers.  I didn't hear what pitcher was moved.

Exactly.  They were not prepared to go to the press conference at that time, it was like SHIT!! We're missing something!  Go to the press conference---now.  Cut right into the post game show without saying they were cutting away. 

Still haven't said who is going down.  And the postgame is over.  Is anyone listening to the radio?  740 might have something.
"My hammy is a little tight. I wish I was like Ausmus. He's Jewish and isn't allowed to have a pulled hamstring."

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2007, 10:41:54 pm »
Great reporting FSN.  They went for the big scoop, breaking away to the clubhouse to see who Bidge thought the Texans should draft, but Bidge wouldn't say.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2007, 10:42:03 pm »
I am confused about a few things though.  How is Pence going to help Twinkie start seeing the ball better?  How is he going to help Ensberg hit like a middle of the order batter?  How is Pence going to make Lane a mlb hitter and Scott a consistent hitter?

This is very unAstro.

How much would Hun need to come back?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2007, 10:44:05 pm »
Man, I hate to say this, but this fucking wreaks of desperation.   According to just about everyone, he ain't ready.

I hate Burke and want to see him removed, but not for Pence...right now.

Wow. 

This is Purpura's last year here.  I'll put money down on that.

I think I agree, a pure desperation move. Maybe this will shake some thing up, 'cause they sure need a boost of energy right now.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2007, 10:44:43 pm »
This is very unAstro.

How much would Hun need to come back?

How is Hun going to help Twinkie start seeing the ball better?  How is he going to help Ensberg hit like a middle of the order batter?  How is Hun going to make Lane a mlb hitter and Scott a consistent hitter?
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JaneDoe

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2007, 10:44:46 pm »
I am confused about a few things though.  How is Pence going to help Twinkie start seeing the ball better?  How is he going to help Ensberg hit like a middle of the order batter?  How is Pence going to make Lane a mlb hitter and Scott a consistent hitter?

Man, the dude can do anything--haven't you been listening to Charlie Palillo?  Starting tomorrow, world peace is accomplished; AIDS, cancer, Parkinson's have cures; no one goes to bed hungry or without alcohol or sex again!
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2007, 10:45:05 pm »
The looks on the faces of Garner and Purp looked pretty desperate in the post game interview.  Like their favorite hunting dog had just been shot.
i noticed that too. looked like pup might cry. and they kept saying over and over it was not over for burke
on the pence side my daughter will be hearbroken , she planed to go to roundrock for lots of games to watch him
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JaneDoe

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2007, 10:45:18 pm »
Great reporting FSN.  They went for the big scoop, breaking away to the clubhouse to see who Bidge thought the Texans should draft, but Bidge wouldn't say.

It was hilarious.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #27 on: April 27, 2007, 10:47:13 pm »
IF Pence can man a major league centerfield and IF Pence can hit major league pitching than it MIGHT JUST BE the greatest move EVER!!

So what are your questions?
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #28 on: April 27, 2007, 10:48:26 pm »
How is Hun going to help Twinkie start seeing the ball better?  How is he going to help Ensberg hit like a middle of the order batter?  How is Hun going to make Lane a mlb hitter and Scott a consistent hitter?

It wouldn't.  But Hun wouldn't make silly desperation moves.

JaneDoe

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #29 on: April 27, 2007, 10:48:43 pm »
Footer recap has Randolph going down.  Scroll down to bottom of link.

Quote
Following Friday night's game, prospect Hunter Pence was called up, and he will start in center on Saturday. Chris Burke will assume a utility role, and Stephen Randolph was designated for assignment.

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20070427&content_id=1934200&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

Edited to add:  Guy on 740 AM postgame (don't recall his name, never listen to him) confirmed that Purp said Pence will start tomorrow night. 



« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 10:55:11 pm by JaneDoe »
"My hammy is a little tight. I wish I was like Ausmus. He's Jewish and isn't allowed to have a pulled hamstring."

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #30 on: April 27, 2007, 10:48:51 pm »
How is Hun going to help Twinkie start seeing the ball better?  How is he going to help Ensberg hit like a middle of the order batter?  How is Hun going to make Lane a mlb hitter and Scott a consistent hitter?
well other than twinkie might make some of them wake up and feel more vulenerable
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Jacksonian

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2007, 10:50:57 pm »
It wouldn't.  But Hun wouldn't make silly desperation moves.

I won't disagree.

I would have thought the first moves would have been to make Lamb the starter at 3b until further notice and make Scott a real full-time RF.  He either proves he belongs or fails.  At least you know what you've got.
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Alkie

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2007, 10:50:58 pm »
So, while we're desperate...Braves probably aren't still willing to part with Andruw, but I bet the Phils could be convinced to trade Rowand.

What are you willing to give up?  Lidge for Rowand?  Is that too easy?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2007, 10:52:05 pm »
Gotta be Moeller. 
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Alkie

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2007, 10:52:17 pm »
I won't disagree.

I would have thought the first moves would have been to make Lamb the starter at 3b until further notice and make Scott a real full-time RF.  He either proves he belongs or fails.  At least you know what you've got.

Preachin' to the choir, holmes.  I've wanted Lamb starting at 3B for 3 fucking years.  Lane shouldn't be on a major league roster. 

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2007, 10:53:09 pm »
This guy on 740 says Pence is "very good defensively, a natural outfielder."   HUH?
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2007, 10:53:53 pm »
Gotta be Moeller. 

Footer says Randolph.  See link above.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2007, 10:54:50 pm »
Footer recap has Randolph going down.  Scroll down to bottom of link.

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20070427&content_id=1934200&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

Edited to add:  Guy on 740 AM postgame (don't recall his name, never listen to him) says that Purp said Pence will start tomorrow night.

Thanks.  We can always count on Alyson.

Jacksonian

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2007, 10:55:02 pm »
This guy on 740 says Pence is "very good defensively, a natural outfielder."   HUH?

He's not a natural outfielder, but he's worked his ass off to be better than adequate.
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Alkie

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2007, 10:56:15 pm »
Is he gonna be leading off or hitting 5th?

Jacksonian

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2007, 10:56:25 pm »
So, while we're desperate...Braves probably aren't still willing to part with Andruw, but I bet the Phils could be convinced to trade Rowand.

What are you willing to give up?  Lidge for Rowand?  Is that too easy?

Why?  The Pence move wasn't made for defense.
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JaneDoe

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2007, 10:56:39 pm »
He's not a natural outfielder, but he's worked his ass off to be better than adequate.

I just wanna know how many times this guy has seen Pence play and what makes him an expert on Hunter's skills as an outfielder.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2007, 10:56:47 pm »
Oh yeah, der!  Makes sense, thanks.
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Jacksonian

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2007, 10:57:32 pm »
Is he gonna be leading off or hitting 5th?

Garner said he hasn't decided.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2007, 10:57:54 pm »
Is he gonna be leading off or hitting 5th?

My guess protect him between Biggio and Berkman for starters...

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2007, 10:58:11 pm »
Why?  The Pence move wasn't made for defense.

I don't think that's 100% true.  If that's the case, why isn't Loretta starting at SS and Lamb at 3B?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2007, 10:58:57 pm »
My guess protect him between Biggio and Berkman for starters...

Not picking on you, but how is that protection?  Lance is an automatic out right now.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2007, 10:59:09 pm »
I just wanna know how many times this guy has seen Pence play and what makes him an expert on Hunter's skills as an outfielder.

Is it the host of the show?  What's his number I'll call him and set him straight.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2007, 11:00:15 pm »
Is he gonna be leading off or hitting 5th?

MLB has given the Astros a waiver--he will bat at all nine positions in the lineup.  Ghost runners will be used on the bases to save Fat Elvis from embarrassing himself again.

Actually, Garner said that he did not know how he was gonna fill the lineup--gotta give it some thought, probably not in one specific spot.  Gonna shake the entire lineup up.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2007, 11:00:26 pm »
I don't think that's 100% true.  If that's the case, why isn't Loretta starting at SS and Lamb at 3B?

You know why at SS.

Worse at third or worse on the bench?  You make the call.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2007, 11:00:53 pm »
Is it the host of the show?  What's his number I'll call him and set him straight.

Yeah, they just called him "Tom".
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2007, 11:01:37 pm »
Not picking on you, but how is that protection?  Lance is an automatic out right now.

True enough but you would figure more hittable shit at 2 than in Morg's spot

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2007, 11:03:06 pm »
MLB has given the Astros a waiver--he will bat at all nine positions in the lineup.  Ghost runners will be used on the bases to save Fat Elvis from embarrassing himself again.

Actually, Garner said that he did not know how he was gonna fill the lineup--gotta give it some thought, probably not in one specific spot.  Gonna shake the entire lineup up.

My guess at Garner's lineup tomorrow:

Biggio
Ensberg
Berkman
Lee
Scott
Pence
Everett
Ausmus
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2007, 11:04:24 pm »
You know why at SS.

Worse at third or worse on the bench?  You make the call.

Wait, wait, wait, you didn't think I was ADVOCATING Loretta starting at SS, were you?  I like AE where he is.  I was saying that if it was about offense-only, I have some quick fixes for a desperate, soon-to-be-out-of-work Purpura.

CarolinaStro

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2007, 11:05:51 pm »
My guess at Garner's lineup tomorrow:

Biggio
Ensberg
Berkman
Lee
Scott
Pence
Everett
Ausmus

Start out his career playing ML CF with limited exp and in a RBI spot with this anemic offense...trial by fire...go Hunter!

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2007, 11:05:56 pm »
I don't think that's 100% true.  If that's the case, why isn't Loretta starting at SS and Lamb at 3B?

You've seen why the former isn't a regular thing. Why Lamb doesn't get more time at third I don't know.

I'm as concerned about what this does to the 40-man and what sort of desperation signals it sends and so on as everyone else is, but can we take a step back and ask a question briefly? Does having Hunter Pence on the Astros taking time away from Chris Burke hurt the Astros as a team?

Also, who made this decision? Purp? Gar? Drayton?
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2007, 11:06:08 pm »
True enough but you would figure more hittable shit at 2 than in Morg's spot

Oh come on, man, you know better than this.  ML pitchers, if the scouting report says "can't hit curveball, can't hit offspeed" is going to throw him nothing-but, whether he's hitting in front of Ensberg, Berkman, or Bonds.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2007, 11:06:09 pm »
Is it the host of the show?  What's his number I'll call him and set him straight.

Tom at 713-212-5874 on the 740 AM 10th inning show.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2007, 11:08:09 pm »

Also, who made this decision? Purp? Gar? Drayton?

Chicken Little.  The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!! 

Tom says the move was decided before the game, Burke was told as soon as the game was over.
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Jacksonian

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2007, 11:09:10 pm »
Tom at 713-212-5874 on the 740 AM 10th inning show.

Too many Howard's calling.  I can't get through.
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remy

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #60 on: April 27, 2007, 11:09:19 pm »
I smell some sort of trade in the oven...

EDIT: No, wait... that was just a pot pie.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #61 on: April 27, 2007, 11:09:52 pm »
I smell some sort of trade in the oven...

You'd have to think so.  That, or they tried and nothing came up.

CarolinaStro

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #62 on: April 27, 2007, 11:11:25 pm »
Oh come on, man, you know better than this.  ML pitchers, if the scouting report says "can't hit curveball, can't hit offspeed" is going to throw him nothing-but, whether he's hitting in front of Ensberg, Berkman, or Bonds.

I am just guessing 2nd instead on 1st or 5th...hell, he should be batting 3rd in RR with WilyT leading off and playing CF in Hou but that is a different Purpura discussion I guess

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #63 on: April 27, 2007, 11:11:36 pm »
You've seen why the former isn't a regular thing. Why Lamb doesn't get more time at third I don't know.

I'm as concerned about what this does to the 40-man and what sort of desperation signals it sends and so on as everyone else is, but can we take a step back and ask a question briefly? Does having Hunter Pence on the Astros taking time away from Chris Burke hurt the Astros as a team?

Also, who made this decision? Purp? Gar? Drayton?

My guess, and judging from the body language at the press conference, would be Purpura. These things are in his job decription.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #64 on: April 27, 2007, 11:14:10 pm »
BTW--designating Randolph for assignment gets rid of our only black player.  Someone call Joe Morgan.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #65 on: April 27, 2007, 11:15:17 pm »
BTW--designating Randolph for assignment gets rid of our only black player.  Someone call Joe Morgan.

A new Astros record?  We had a black player for, what, 48 hours?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #66 on: April 27, 2007, 11:15:18 pm »
Yeah, they just called him "Tom".

Franklin, Tom Franklin.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #67 on: April 27, 2007, 11:15:34 pm »
BTW--designating Randolph for assignment gets rid of our only black player.  Someone call Joe Morgan.

It also opened the spot on the 40-man for Pence.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #68 on: April 27, 2007, 11:16:39 pm »
It also opened the spot on the 40-man for Pence.

He wasn't already on the 40-man?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #69 on: April 27, 2007, 11:17:44 pm »
BTW--designating Randolph for assignment gets rid of our only black player.  Someone call Joe Morgan.

I heard during the game tonight Morgan is coming to Houston for the Astros in Action Foundation charity golf tournament on Monday.  I was shocked he's coming.  Maybe he'll make himself feel better by blasting the Astros for their racially motivated dumping of Randolph.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #70 on: April 27, 2007, 11:18:14 pm »
He wasn't already on the 40-man?

Nope.  He would have had to be added after this season in order to avoid being eligible for the Rule 5 draft.

ETA: Damn man haven't you read every word written in the minors section?
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #71 on: April 27, 2007, 11:19:03 pm »
So.... something is like, going on? Or something?
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #72 on: April 27, 2007, 11:19:37 pm »
Chris Burke "They did what they felt they had to do.  I had a chance and I stunk."

Sounded real choked up, who wouldn't.  He was the "player of the game" interview for the 740 AM Astros 10th inning show.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #73 on: April 27, 2007, 11:20:54 pm »
Why the fuck are you guys freaking out about this? Look at Pence's key batting ratios. They're good enough to merit the call-up and his defense won't be any worse than Burke's. I think Purp is acting a month sooner than he would've otherwise, but perhaps he's thinking that Pence is this year's Luke Scott.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #74 on: April 27, 2007, 11:23:01 pm »
After April 27, 2005, the Astros were 6.5 games back (we're 5 GB right now).

The ended that season 31 games out and were never heard from again.

Or they made the WS.  I forget.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #75 on: April 27, 2007, 11:23:30 pm »
Look at Pence's key batting ratios.

Because batting against major league pitchers is a lot harder than batting against minor league pitchers.

I hope he hits .400 the rest of the way though.
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matadorph

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #76 on: April 27, 2007, 11:24:59 pm »
Man, I hate to say this, but this fucking wreaks of desperation.   According to just about everyone, he ain't ready.

I hate Burke and want to see him removed, but not for Pence...right now.

Wow. 

This is Purpura's last year here.  I'll put money down on that.

I don't see this as desperation, I see it as accountability. Pence is not that far away. I don't like it because it means Burke has been a failure, but I like it because it's a proactive move to address that.

No, it won't fix Berkman or Lane or MoBerg, but it's something. This team needs a jolt.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #77 on: April 27, 2007, 11:25:22 pm »
Why the fuck are you guys freaking out about this? Look at Pence's key batting ratios. They're good enough to merit the call-up and his defense won't be any worse than Burke's. I think Purp is acting a month sooner than he would've otherwise, but perhaps he's thinking that Pence is this year's Luke Scott.

There you go. There's two variables at work here that coincided. One, and most importantly, the Astros were stinking both defensively and, especially, offensively. Second, Pence was performing well and knocking loudly at the door over in Round Rock. Pence forced his way in to a glaring deficiency at the Major League level.

Now, let's hope Hunter goes and gets 'em.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #78 on: April 27, 2007, 11:25:29 pm »
but perhaps he's thinking that Pence is this year's Luke Scott.

...and when Pence hits .188 and has an OPS of .558 over the course of a full month, how will you feel?

The reason I made up those numbers is because......those were Luke Scott's numbers when we called HIS ass up too fucking early.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #79 on: April 27, 2007, 11:26:48 pm »
but perhaps he's thinking that Pence is this year's Luke Scott.

Oh Dear God, I hope not. 
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matadorph

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #80 on: April 27, 2007, 11:29:16 pm »
Because batting against major league pitchers is a lot harder than batting against minor league pitchers.

I hope he hits .400 the rest of the way though.

Yes, I'm well aware of that. Coincidentally, I meant to post a question today about Pence's readiness based on batting ratios but decided not to out of fear of calling forth the Kracken.

If you read what Purp said during the spring and what he said after, it sounded to me that Pence was very close. I thought he'd get the call in May or June, but not today.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #81 on: April 27, 2007, 11:29:53 pm »
Alkie is right: this is desperation bordering on panic. i hope it works out for the team and for Pence. i wonder if Drayton ordered this move.

he is NOT very close, but it will have to do.
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remy

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #82 on: April 27, 2007, 11:30:23 pm »
I'm sure this has already been mentioned somewhere, but Pence went 3-5 tonight with a double and a triple and 3 runs scored.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Hunter%2520Pence&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=452254

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #83 on: April 27, 2007, 11:31:01 pm »
I don't see this as desperation, I see it as accountability. Pence is not that far away. I don't like it because it means Burke has been a failure, but I like it because it's a proactive move to address that.

No, it won't fix Berkman or Lane or MoBerg, but it's something. This team needs a jolt.

But the problem with the offense wasn't Burke.  It is Berkman, Lane, Ensberg, and streakful Ninja.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #84 on: April 27, 2007, 11:31:36 pm »
I'm sure this has already been mentioned somewhere, but Pence went 3-5 tonight with a double and a triple and 3 runs scored.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Hunter%2520Pence&pos=&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=452254

hard hit single and triple. bloop double that should have been caught.

it is desperation, matadorph, and it could hurt Pence. i hope it does not.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #85 on: April 27, 2007, 11:32:13 pm »
Alkie is right: this is desperation bordering on panic. i hope it works out for the team and for Pence. i wonder if Drayton ordered this move.

I wouldn't doubt that at all.  It will also be talk show radio fodder if he falls on his face.
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matadorph

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #86 on: April 27, 2007, 11:32:47 pm »
...and when Pence hits .188 and has an OPS of .558 over the course of a full month, how will you feel?

The reason I made up those numbers is because......those were Luke Scott's numbers when we called HIS ass up too fucking early.

Lance Berkman struggled, too. Pence deserves his chance. He's done the job, Burke hasn't.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #87 on: April 27, 2007, 11:35:15 pm »
Lance Berkman struggled, too. Pence deserves his chance. He's done the job, Burke hasn't.

this is just dumb. Pence does not "deserve" anything the third week in April in his first season of AAA. this is not a reward for him. it is an admission of failure at the MLB level.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #88 on: April 27, 2007, 11:35:41 pm »
But the problem with the offense wasn't Burke.  It is Berkman, Lane, Ensberg, and streakful Ninja.

Hey don't forget this guy's last 7 days: 
              OBP   SLG   AVG   
C Lee      .212 .241 .172


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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #89 on: April 27, 2007, 11:37:02 pm »
Lance Berkman struggled, too. Pence deserves his chance. He's done the job, Burke hasn't.

Burke has zero business being in CF.  There's no way around that. 

But why potentially hurt our easily-#1-prospect because we made a stupid fucking move and traded away our only CF this offseason?

And again, everyone seems to think this is just about offense (which I disagree with).  If that's the case, I don't see how you call up a prospect/rookie to solve the offense.

It just seems to me that the odds of ruining your numero uno untouchable prospect for a quick fix are better than the odds of him stepping in and hitting .400 with power.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #90 on: April 27, 2007, 11:38:02 pm »
Pence deserves his chance. He's done the job, Burke hasn't.

Deserves?  After a handfull of games at the AAA level? 

Burke has played with the big boys, Pence hasn't.

I hope he does well and doesn't implode.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #91 on: April 27, 2007, 11:38:30 pm »
I don't see this as desperation, I see it as accountability. Pence is not that far away. I don't like it because it means Burke has been a failure, but I like it because it's a proactive move to address that.

No, it won't fix Berkman or Lane or MoBerg, but it's something. This team needs a jolt.

The circumstances just blow for the kid, ML ready or not...This team has serious flaws and now alot of people are going to put the savior tag on him.  Somebody break out the time machine and go back to 04 and get Beltran.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #92 on: April 27, 2007, 11:40:16 pm »
The circumstances just blow for the kid, ML ready or not...This team has serious flaws and now alot of people are going to put the savior tag on him.  Somebody break out the time machine and go back to 04 and get Beltran.

Do ya think the stem would take Lidge for Beltran?
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #93 on: April 27, 2007, 11:41:02 pm »
Do ya think the stem would take Lidge for Beltran?

Sure, if you throw in Roy.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #94 on: April 27, 2007, 11:41:06 pm »
But why potentially hurt our easily-#1-prospect because we made a stupid fucking move and traded away our only CF this offseason?

Purpura said after the Willy T trade that Pence was eventually going to push him out anyways. The process has just been accelerated a little.

It won't matter if Berkman doesn't get it going. He's really struggling against all these left handers.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #95 on: April 27, 2007, 11:42:32 pm »


It won't matter if Berkman doesn't get it going. He's really struggling against all these left handers.

WHAT?  It could be disasterous if Berkman doesn't get it going.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #96 on: April 27, 2007, 11:44:00 pm »
Purpura said after the Willy T trade that Pence was eventually going to push him out anyways. The process has just been accelerated a little.

It won't matter if Berkman doesn't get it going. He's really struggling against all these left handers.

Taveras was not a good CF, and i was for that trade. playing Lane in CF after his start so far would work for me. bring up Bruntlett then or have Burke as util again.

bringing up Pence now is not a baseball move. it screams "Drayton."
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #97 on: April 27, 2007, 11:44:09 pm »
Me and the old man were talking about this on the way home from the game... Before we knew Pence was getting the call.

RR has a few guys that could help on the ML level right now. Ensberg could easily be swapped out for Cody Ransom. Dude is a ++ defender, has a great arm, doesn't get cheated at the plate, and does the small things right. I promise you he wouldn't be any worse in the 2 or 5 hole than Ensberg.

Mike Rodriguez could help the big club off the bench too. He's fast, a good contact hitter, and has a decent arm. Could play all 3 OF spots.

Pence, as has been discussed ad-naseum, could really help the big club too, if he can carry his momentum over. Something I noticed tonight that I didn't see earlier this year... He really is waiting back on breaking balls and punishing breaking balls left in the zone. Most of the balls he hits are HARD hits.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #98 on: April 27, 2007, 11:44:22 pm »
Purpura said after the Willy T trade that Pence was eventually going to push him out anyways.

I did not know that, but now that I'm hearing that, it makes me think even less of Purpura.  How could he knowingly leave such a huge fucking hole?  He didn't plan for a CF in the biggest goddamn CF in the majors?  Oh, hell, we'll just put our middle infielder there.  He'll be fiiiiiiiine.

It won't matter if Berkman doesn't get it going. He's really struggling against all these left handers.

Totally agree.  Which is why this whole thing kills me.  We're losing because Lance has been dogshit.  Lance will come around.  Everyone knows that.  What this team needed was time.  That was it.  Not desperate crazy-ass moves.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #99 on: April 27, 2007, 11:44:30 pm »
Hi Mrs. Pence!  Congrats!

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #100 on: April 27, 2007, 11:45:08 pm »
Alkie is right: this is desperation bordering on panic. i hope it works out for the team and for Pence. i wonder if Drayton ordered this move.

he is NOT very close, but it will have to do.

I disagree. And yes, I have watched him play.

And the numbers say he's satisfied the team's plate discipline prereqs.

Lexington-- BB/AB ratio of 1:8, BB/K ratio of 1:1, K/AB ratio of 1:6

Salem--BB/AB ratio of 1:8, BB/K ratio of 1:2, K/AB ratio of 1:4

Corpus--BB/AB ratio  of 1:9, BB/K ratio of 1:2, K/AB ratio of 1:5

RR-- BB/AB ratio of 1:10, BB/K ratio of 1:2, K/AB ratio of 1:5


He's been consistent at every level. I think it's premature, but I don't think calling him up is nearly the disaster-in-waiting many of you predict.


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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #101 on: April 27, 2007, 11:47:04 pm »
I disagree. And yes, I have watched him play.

And the numbers say he's satisfied the team's plate discipline prereqs.

Lexington-- BB/AB ratio of 1:8, BB/K ratio of 1:1, K/AB ratio of 1:6

Salem--BB/AB ratio of 1:8, BB/K ratio of 1:2, K/AB ratio of 1:4

Corpus--BB/AB ratio  of 1:9, BB/K ratio of 1:2, K/AB ratio of 1:5

RR-- BB/AB ratio of 1:10, BB/K ratio of 1:2, K/AB ratio of 1:5


He's been consistent at every level. I think it's premature, but I don't think calling him up is nearly the disaster-in-waiting many of you predict.

how many games have you seen in RR? what you are is star struck. talk to me about anything but baseball from now on. you clearly don't get it.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #102 on: April 27, 2007, 11:47:21 pm »
Lance will come around.  Everyone knows that. 

We DON'T know that.  ( I really hope I end up eating my words on this one)
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #103 on: April 27, 2007, 11:47:32 pm »
I disagree. And yes, I have watched him play.

And the numbers say he's satisfied the team's plate discipline prereqs.

Lexington-- BB/AB ratio of 1:8, BB/K ratio of 1:1, K/AB ratio of 1:6

Salem--BB/AB ratio of 1:8, BB/K ratio of 1:2, K/AB ratio of 1:4

Corpus--BB/AB ratio  of 1:9, BB/K ratio of 1:2, K/AB ratio of 1:5

RR-- BB/AB ratio of 1:10, BB/K ratio of 1:2, K/AB ratio of 1:5


He's been consistent at every level. I think it's premature, but I don't think calling him up is nearly the disaster-in-waiting many of you predict.



Nobody is saying its a disaster. People are saying it could be a disaster. And its true. The Astros could wreck the confidence of their number 1 prospect, and not get any big payment out of the call-up.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #104 on: April 27, 2007, 11:48:37 pm »
Burke has zero business being in CF.  There's no way around that. 

But why potentially hurt our easily-#1-prospect because we made a stupid fucking move and traded away our only CF this offseason?

And again, everyone seems to think this is just about offense (which I disagree with).  If that's the case, I don't see how you call up a prospect/rookie to solve the offense.

It just seems to me that the odds of ruining your numero uno untouchable prospect for a quick fix are better than the odds of him stepping in and hitting .400 with power.

This is Pope hyperbole. Pence is not going to be hurt by facing major-league pitchers.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #105 on: April 27, 2007, 11:48:52 pm »
We DON'T know that.  ( I really hope I end up eating my words on this one)

Oh come on, yes you do.  Lance is a bona fide superstar.  Superstars have bad months.  It does happen.  And everyone goes "oh god, what will we do?!" and then he hits .455 and everything is fine. 

Lance will end up with 35-40 HRs and 110+ RBIs.   He way, way too incredible of a hitter to have suddenly just lost his shit.

.........unless he's hurt.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #106 on: April 27, 2007, 11:49:05 pm »
how many games have you seen in RR? what you are is star struck. talk to me about anything but baseball from now on. you clearly don't get it.

every game this season.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #107 on: April 27, 2007, 11:49:37 pm »
This is Pope hyperbole. Pence is not going to be hurt by facing major-league pitchers.

So you're saying Pence is going to come in and set the MLB on fire. Not just saying it, predicting it. Promising it. THAT, my friend, is ridiculous.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #108 on: April 27, 2007, 11:50:07 pm »
This is Pope hyperbole. Pence is not going to be hurt by facing major-league pitchers.

That's probably true.  But what if he DOES hit .188.  Will that affect his confidence as a hitter?  If it does, how long will it take him to get back on track? 

I'm just saying: which is more likely....prospect gets called up and hits .415 or prospect gets called up and hits .188?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #109 on: April 27, 2007, 11:50:30 pm »
Nobody is saying its a disaster. People are saying it could be a disaster. And its true. The Astros could wreck the confidence of their number 1 prospect, and not get any big payment out of the call-up.

i have no idea how Pence will do. i hope well, but regardless, this is a panic move to staisfy the fans' clamor or desperation because of a need to win right now. as Alkie said, very un-Astro.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #110 on: April 27, 2007, 11:52:39 pm »
This is Pope hyperbole. Pence is not going to be hurt by facing major-league pitchers.

ok, this sets a new standard for stupid. was Scott hurt two years ago?

too fucking stupid for words.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #111 on: April 27, 2007, 11:53:04 pm »
how many games have you seen in RR? what you are is star struck. talk to me about anything but baseball from now on. you clearly don't get it.

Bullshit, coach. I'm not a member of the "Hunter Pence Now!" club, and if you read my posts in an earlier thread you'd know that. I just think that you Popes who insiste he has to play another year at AAA before he's ready are guilty of overstating this juuuuuuust a bit.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #112 on: April 27, 2007, 11:53:07 pm »
Jeez, wasn't it just a week ago when people were posting how much fun this year was going to be?  Dogs and letter carriers living in harmony?  The reconciliation of the Red River rivals?  (OK, so I made that last part up.)

If I wasn't witnessing this with my own eyes I'm not sure I'd believe it.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #113 on: April 27, 2007, 11:53:32 pm »
Ensberg could easily be swapped out for Cody Ransom.

If your appraisal is anywhere close to being right, I'm in. Ransom didn't get anything but garbage time and the odd away-game start in ST, and I have no sense at all of who he is and what he can do.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #114 on: April 27, 2007, 11:54:12 pm »
So you're saying Pence is going to come in and set the MLB on fire. Not just saying it, predicting it. Promising it. THAT, my friend, is ridiculous.

No, and you know that's not what I'm saying. He may well struggle, but it won't retard his development.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #115 on: April 27, 2007, 11:55:36 pm »
I disagree. And yes, I have watched him play.

And the numbers say he's satisfied the team's plate discipline prereqs.

Lexington-- BB/AB ratio of 1:8, BB/K ratio of 1:1, K/AB ratio of 1:6

Salem--BB/AB ratio of 1:8, BB/K ratio of 1:2, K/AB ratio of 1:4

Corpus--BB/AB ratio  of 1:9, BB/K ratio of 1:2, K/AB ratio of 1:5

RR-- BB/AB ratio of 1:10, BB/K ratio of 1:2, K/AB ratio of 1:5


He's been consistent at every level. I think it's premature, but I don't think calling him up is nearly the disaster-in-waiting many of you predict.



If this is all you've got then you know nothing.  The chance for disaster is higher now that it would have been in September.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #116 on: April 27, 2007, 11:55:57 pm »
ok, this sets a new standard for stupid. was Scott hurt two years ago?

too fucking stupid for words.

Luke Scott has never been the prospect that Hunter Pence is now. You know that, Jim.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #117 on: April 27, 2007, 11:57:07 pm »
Pence is not going to be hurt by facing major-league pitchers.

All this brought to my mind was See Hunter, Torii
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #118 on: April 27, 2007, 11:57:50 pm »
Jeez, wasn't it just a week ago when people were posting how much fun this year was going to be?  Dogs and letter carriers living in harmony?  The reconciliation of the Red River rivals?  (OK, so I made that last part up.)

If I wasn't witnessing this with my own eyes I'm not sure I'd believe it.


Apparently getting swept by the Pirates again has pissed somebody off quite nicely...Garner's rant during that series was apparently quite telling after all

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #119 on: April 27, 2007, 11:58:15 pm »
I did not know that, but now that I'm hearing that, it makes me think even less of Purpura.  How could he knowingly leave such a huge fucking hole?  He didn't plan for a CF in the biggest goddamn CF in the majors?  Oh, hell, we'll just put our middle infielder there.  He'll be fiiiiiiiine.

I still can't figure out what the Astros want in a CF. We have had guys like Biggio, Berkman, and Burke roam around out there, but we have also traded for Beltran (as much for his defense as for his offense) and fast-tracked Taveras (who was supposed to be better defensively than he was). I've heard varying reports on Pence's defense, but I think he's somewhere in between the bad (Biggio, Burke) and the good (Beltran). Most Astros fans seem to think that Pence is a GG caliber CF just because he's been an outfielder his whole career. I just hope he gets off to a good start. Fans seem as reactionary as ever this season. I can envision a scenario in about 2 weeks where people are screaming for Pence's demotion.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #120 on: April 27, 2007, 11:58:39 pm »
Well, it's happened and ain't nothing any of us can do about it (uh, except for gpence of course).  So, here's to genuinely hoping the kid hits .455 with a ton of power and catches the balls that hit him in the inside of his glove.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #121 on: April 27, 2007, 11:59:51 pm »
That's probably true.  But what if he DOES hit .188.  Will that affect his confidence as a hitter?  If it does, how long will it take him to get back on track? 

He isnt 19.   

Is he such a giant pussy that making some outs makes him crumble like a week old otis spunkmeyer chocolate chip cookie, then maybe he wasnt meant to be a major leaguer.

My only problem is that it has come to this.   How do you build a roster with no CFer in a park with a CF like MM?   And now the "answer" is to bring up a corner OF with NO mlb experience to   play CF?   Uh, OK.

I have never been that impressed with Burke to begin with, sticking him in CF was a disaster waiting to happen.   THAT move was a desperation move, more so than brining up Pence.   

 
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #122 on: April 28, 2007, 12:00:00 am »
That's probably true.  But what if he DOES hit .188.  Will that affect his confidence as a hitter?  If it does, how long will it take him to get back on track? 

I'm just saying: which is more likely....prospect gets called up and hits .415 or prospect gets called up and hits .188?

I don't know. Did it hurt Lance Berkman?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #123 on: April 28, 2007, 12:00:29 am »
I can envision a scenario in about 2 weeks where people are screaming for Pence's demotion.

I don't think there's any question.  If he "only" hits .355, I'm sure that'll be the case.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence !!!!!
« Reply #124 on: April 28, 2007, 12:00:56 am »
Also, who made this decision? Purp? Gar? Drayton?

The more I think about this--it was Roger Clemens. 
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #125 on: April 28, 2007, 12:05:25 am »
If this is all you've got then you know nothing.  The chance for disaster is higher now that it would have been in September.

Fuck off with the patronizing douchery.

I posted those ratios because those numbers are more relevant than Pence's OPS against pitchers in high A ball. Those numbers are relevant because they touch on the plate discipline Purpura is looking for.


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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #126 on: April 28, 2007, 12:09:42 am »
To his credit, Pence probably would have broke camp with quite a few teams after the spring he had, and he was doing quite well at the plate in his short stint in RR, so what the hell, he gets his shot.

I still think its a desperation move, but sometimes they work out.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #127 on: April 28, 2007, 12:11:26 am »
Fuck off with the patronizing douchery.

I posted those ratios because those numbers are more relevant than Pence's OPS against pitchers in high A ball. Those numbers are relevant because they touch on the plate discipline Purpura is looking for.



It only seems patronizing because it's clear you haven't followed his development.

Those numbers are deceptive and if you'd have followed his development the past 3+ years you'd know that.

He wasn't consistent in CC last year.  His hitting was wildly up and down. That's one example.

I've been hoping like hell this was the year he'd be consistent at the plate all year rather than uber streaky.  We'll have to find that out against mlb pitching rather than AAA pitching.

Cheers to Hunter!  Keep your eye on the ball and rip the fuck out of it!  I hope you're there to stay.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #128 on: April 28, 2007, 12:15:56 am »
Cheers to Hunter!  Keep your eye on the ball and rip the fuck out of it!  I hope you're there to stay.

I just need to know one thing. Can he throw a decent strike from shallow center to the plate?

The word was out on Burke, and baserunners were going to test him at every turn.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #129 on: April 28, 2007, 12:17:04 am »
I just need to know one thing. Can he throw a decent strike from shallow center to the plate?

The word was out on Burke, and baserunners were going to test him at every turn.

The Brewers were also testing Lee tonight.  Even on a routine single.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #130 on: April 28, 2007, 12:18:05 am »
Jacksonian.

I read the minors section. I know about Pence's vulnerabilities. I know about his fall off the cliff in the middle of the season last year. Don't talk down to me. Pence's numbers don't tell the whole story, but they don't lie, either. The guy can hit. I'd rather this move not be made right now because of what it says about the failures of the Astros offense as a whole, but I'm not buying the argument that this will ruin his professional career.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 12:28:55 am by matadorph »

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #131 on: April 28, 2007, 12:18:52 am »
The Brewers were also testing Lee tonight.  Even on a routine single.

Yep, and his arm is decent.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #132 on: April 28, 2007, 12:25:15 am »
Jacksonian.

I read the minors section. I know about Pence's vulnerabilities. I know about how he fell off the cliff in the middle of the season.
Don't talk down to me. Pence's numbers don't tell the whole story, but they don't lie, either. I'd rather this move not be made right now because of what it says about the failures of the Astros offense as a whole, but I'm not buying the argument that this will ruin his professional career.

Actually, I get a lot I can't/won't post and sometimes forget you (plural) aren't privy.  But, in the case you're trying to make, IMO those numbers do lie.  There has been way too much in season fluctuation in Hunter's performances to rely on end of season stats to make a point using them.

The fear is that mlb pitchers will make him look foolish and wreck his confidence.  It's happened to touted prospects before, and it will no doubt happen to many more.  I hope it doesn't happen to him.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #133 on: April 28, 2007, 12:27:33 am »
I just need to know one thing. Can he throw a decent strike from shallow center to the plate?

The word was out on Burke, and baserunners were going to test him at every turn.

Yes, he can.  It'll look funny but yes.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #134 on: April 28, 2007, 12:30:03 am »
He isnt 19.   

Is he such a giant pussy that making some outs makes him crumble like a week old otis spunkmeyer chocolate chip cookie, then maybe he wasnt meant to be a major leaguer.

My only problem is that it has come to this.   How do you build a roster with no CFer in a park with a CF like MM?   And now the "answer" is to bring up a corner OF with NO mlb experience to   play CF?   Uh, OK.

I have never been that impressed with Burke to begin with, sticking him in CF was a disaster waiting to happen.   THAT move was a desperation move, more so than brining up Pence.   

 

Astros have had exactly 1 CF in 7 years.  Burke is no worse than anyone besides Beltran.  Jennings was a calculated move.  He's had over 30 starts every season except the one where he broke his finger.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #135 on: April 28, 2007, 12:37:44 am »
Actually, I get a lot I can't/won't post and sometimes forget you (plural) aren't privy.  But, in the case you're trying to make, IMO those numbers do lie.  There has been way too much in season fluctuation in Hunter's performances to rely on end of season stats to make a point using them.

The fear is that mlb pitchers will make him look foolish and wreck his confidence.  It's happened to touted prospects before, and it will no doubt happen to many more.  I hope it doesn't happen to him.

During tonight's RR broadcast Capps talked about Pence's improved batting approach. Capps said that opposing pitchers were consistently trying to bust him high and inside and then throw him junk sliders away but that Pence wasn't biting on those anymore, earning him praise from his watchers. If they think he's ready, why don't you?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #136 on: April 28, 2007, 12:37:59 am »
Astros have had exactly 1 CF in 7 years.  Burke is no worse than anyone besides Beltran.  Jennings was a calculated move.  He's had over 30 starts every season except the one where he broke his finger.

You think Burke is better in CF than willy?

I dont have a problem getting Jennings, but going into the season with Burke as your CF and the backup plan being Pence?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #137 on: April 28, 2007, 12:39:06 am »
You think Burke is better in CF than willy?

I dont have a problem getting Jennings, but going into the season with Burke as your CF and the backup plan being Pence?



Astros thought so last season when they sat Taveras for about a month.  His offense wasn't why they sat him.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #138 on: April 28, 2007, 12:47:13 am »
During tonight's RR broadcast Capps talked about Pence's improved batting approach. Capps said that opposing pitchers were consistently trying to bust him high and inside and then throw him junk sliders away but that Pence wasn't biting on those anymore, earning him praise from his watchers. If they think he's ready, why don't you?

That's the thing.  One hot April, IMO, isn't enough to know.  I've heard from others that he needs more time doing just what you describe to show he's ready as opposed to losing it in May and going ice cold showing the same kind of inconsistency as last year.  The Astros are banking that he won't lose it or at least not for very long.  I hope they're right.

I've had baseball people tell me the jump from A to AA is the toughest.  I've had others tell me the jump from anywhere to mlb is the toughest.  Pence struggled with consistency moving from A to AA.  I fear just 1 April in AAA hasn't prepped him enough for the jump to mlb.

I'll be rooting for him all the way with all digits crossed.

Now about Berkman, Ensberg, Lane, Scott, and recently Lee...

Edit for correct wording.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #139 on: April 28, 2007, 12:54:58 am »
Astros thought so last season when they sat Taveras for about a month.  His offense wasn't why they sat him.

So the games that Taveras sat out were because Burke was a superior defensive player?
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #140 on: April 28, 2007, 01:04:08 am »
You big PUSSY. You're all being a bunch of PUSSIES!!!!

Players have jumped to the major leagues with more question marks than Pence and have succeeded.  Players have jumped to the major leagues with fewer question marks than Pence and have failed.

Save the desparation BULLSHIT.  Purp is calling up his #1 hitting prospect to take the place of a guy hitting 225/321/338 while playing a shitty CF.  

Bring it on Hunter.  Let's fuck some shit UP!!!!!

Anyone but Burke in CF!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #141 on: April 28, 2007, 01:05:25 am »
 
That's the thing.  One hot April, IMO, isn't enough to know.  I've heard from others that he needs more time doing just what you describe to show he's ready as opposed to losing it in May and going ice cold showing the same kind of inconsistency as last year.  The Astros are banking that he won't lose it or at least not for very long.  I hope they're right.

I've had baseball people tell me the jump from A to AA is the toughest.  I've had others tell me the jump from anywhere to mlb is the toughest.  Pence struggled with consistency moving from A to AA.  I fear just 1 April in AAA hasn't prepped him enough for the jump to mlb.

I'll be rooting for him all the way with all digits crossed.

Now about Berkman, Ensberg, Lane, Scott, and recently Lee...

Edit for correct wording.

And those concerns are entirely reasonable. I can't quibble with any of it, I just don't think the fears about stunting his development are worth the wringed hands and furrowed brows. Yes, he's had bouts of inconsistency, but what player hasn't? He's progressed at every level, right?

Personally, I could go either way on the Pence question. Before the call-up I thought there were valid arguments on both sides, but my concern wasn't about stunting his development as much as the roster ramifications his promotion would have. Is the starting pitching good enough to carry eleven pitchers?
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 02:03:40 am by matadorph »

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #142 on: April 28, 2007, 01:06:55 am »
You big PUSSY. You're all being a bunch of PUSSIES!!!!

Players have jumped to the major leagues with more question marks than Pence and have succeeded.  Players have jumped to the major leagues with fewer question marks than Pence and have failed.

Save the desparation BULLSHIT.  Purp is calling up his #1 hitting prospect to take the place of a guy hitting 225/321/338 while playing a shitty CF.  

Bring it on Hunter.  Let's fuck some shit UP!!!!!

Anyone but Burke in CF!!!!!!!!!!

22 games into the season, when Purpura didnt do this, and had legitimate reasons not to do this out of ST, is a desperation move. 

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #143 on: April 28, 2007, 01:10:01 am »
Quote
was Scott hurt two years ago?

I thought Scott proceeded to go back down to AAA and hit the shit out of the ball.   Did he struggle for a bit after being sent back down?  Or are yall saying he is still scarred from that bad first month in the bigs?   

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #144 on: April 28, 2007, 01:10:57 am »

I just don't think the fears about stunting his development are worth the wringed hands and furrowed brows.

Have you seen what's left on the farm if it does? j/k....sorta
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #145 on: April 28, 2007, 01:13:11 am »
I can understand this move.   Right now, the offense is not clicking and burke is a liability both offensively/defensively.   Do I think it's the best answer, no.   But can I understand the rationale?  Yes.

This move also signals a potential wakeup call to ensberg because if pence hits for power, loretta will be able to see more and more time at 3b.  If not, then you have to search the trade market early.   And of course berkman needs to start swinging like lance berkman real soon. 

I miss aubrey huff right now.   
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #146 on: April 28, 2007, 01:16:23 am »
22 games into the season, when Purpura didnt do this, and had legitimate reasons not to do this out of ST, is a desperation move. 

Purp ain't desperate.  He's calling up his best hitter in the minor league system to sit a shitty fielding, poor hittig CFer.

As much as Burke in CF pisses me off, it ain't Burke's fault. He's just not a CFer.  I think Purp realizes as much and is probably working the phones for a trade.  UNtil that trade happens, Pence is the best option.

FUCK Jason Lane in CF.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #147 on: April 28, 2007, 01:17:57 am »
Purp ain't desperate.  He's calling up his best hitter in the minor league system to sit a shitty fielding, poor hittig CFer.

As much as Burke in CF pisses me off, it ain't Burke's fault. He's just not a CFer.  I think Purp realizes as much and is probably working the phones for a trade.  UNtil that trade happens, Pence is the best option.

FUCK Jason Lane in CF.

If only there was a way to unload Ensberg for said CF.   I've had it with his inconsistency.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #148 on: April 28, 2007, 01:21:12 am »
Purp ain't desperate.  He's calling up his best hitter in the minor league system to sit a shitty fielding, poor hittig CFer.

As much as Burke in CF pisses me off, it ain't Burke's fault. He's just not a CFer.  I think Purp realizes as much and is probably working the phones for a trade.  UNtil that trade happens, Pence is the best option.

FUCK Jason Lane in CF.

It is desperate.  Even with the dropped balls, crappy defense, and weak ass bat Burke was not the reason for the 7 game skid.  There are 4 other players far more important to the offense who have not been holding up their end.  And, 3 of those could have been tossed before Burke.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #149 on: April 28, 2007, 01:22:57 am »
If only there was a way to unload Ensberg for said CF.   I've had it with his inconsistency.

Its time to realize what MoBerg is.  He's a solid OBP 3B with potential thats going to just break your heart if you really try to count on it.

Accept he's a table setter and use him accordingly.  Putting him 5th in the order expecting him to be a run producer is setting yourslef up for failure.  

Ensberg to the #2 hole and Pence becomes your #5 hitter.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #150 on: April 28, 2007, 01:23:06 am »
Ensberg drives me batshit crazy, but at least he plays good defense.

As shitty as he's played, I feel for Chris Burke. He's a victim of 3000.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #151 on: April 28, 2007, 01:25:40 am »
Its time to realize what MoBerg is.  He's a solid OBP 3B with potential thats going to just break your heart if you really try to count on it.

Accept he's a table setter and use him accordingly.  Putting him 5th in the order expecting him to be a run producer is setting yourslef up for failure. 

Ensberg to the #2 hole and Pence becomes your #5 hitter.

Problem is, the astros need him in the middle of the order protecting Lee.    Relying on pence as the number 5 right away is a lot of pressure.    I remember why I wanted morgan dealt this offseason, and huff resigned the more I watch him.   
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #152 on: April 28, 2007, 01:26:51 am »
Purp ain't desperate.  He's calling up his best hitter in the minor league system to sit a shitty fielding, poor hittig CFer.

As much as Burke in CF pisses me off, it ain't Burke's fault. He's just not a CFer.  I think Purp realizes as much and is probably working the phones for a trade.  UNtil that trade happens, Pence is the best option.

FUCK Jason Lane in CF.

The reason it is desperate is that he could have made the exact same move when the season started.  22 games isnt a sufficient sample to reverse that decision.  Either he didnt know what he was doing then, or he doesnt know what he's doing now.  Purpura's public statements are now officially stamped grade A bullshit until he proves otherwise.  His credibility is shot. 

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #153 on: April 28, 2007, 01:27:47 am »
Ensberg drives me batshit crazy, but at least he plays good defense.

As shitty as he's played, I feel for Chris Burke. He's a victim of 3000.

Well so is mark loretta.   But, problem is the defense is what has him benched now.   You have to bring something to the table, which burke hadn't done.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #154 on: April 28, 2007, 01:28:03 am »
Its time to realize what MoBerg is.  He's a solid OBP 3B with potential thats going to just break your heart if you really try to count on it.

Accept he's a table setter and use him accordingly.  Putting him 5th in the order expecting him to be a run producer is setting yourslef up for failure.  

Ensberg to the #2 hole and Pence becomes your #5 hitter.

That's pussified and accepting of Ensberg's failure.  Ensberg knows full well the Astros have continually signed him to be a middle of the order hitter.  Accept Ensberg's failure not by moving him in the order but by benching him.  Lamb at 5, Pence at 7, and Everett at 2.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #155 on: April 28, 2007, 01:29:10 am »
Problem is, the astros need him in the middle of the order protecting Lee.    Relying on pence as the number 5 right away is a lot of pressure.    I remember why I wanted morgan dealt this offseason, and huff resigned the more I watch him.   

Yeah, well I need my boss to triple my salary and give me afternoon off so I can blow the increase in salary at the strip club, but it ain't gonna happen.

Not to go Denny Green, but MoBerg is who we thought he was.  He has value as an OBP guy.  Use it.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #156 on: April 28, 2007, 01:31:36 am »
The reason it is desperate is that he could have made the exact same move when the season started.  22 games isnt a sufficient sample to reverse that decision.  Either he didnt know what he was doing then, or he doesnt know what he's doing now.  Purpura's public statements are now officially stamped grade A bullshit until he proves otherwise.  His credibility is shot. 

I think he would have made the move out of camp, but there were two factors against it.

1) Burke had earned a chance to play every day based on his utility role success the last few years

2)  He gave luke scott the job out of camp two years ago and it backfired in his face.    He was afraid it might happen again.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #157 on: April 28, 2007, 01:32:00 am »
The reason it is desperate is that he could have made the exact same move when the season started.  22 games isnt a sufficient sample to reverse that decision.  Either he didnt know what he was doing then, or he doesnt know what he's doing now.  Purpura's public statements are now officially stamped grade A bullshit until he proves otherwise.  His credibility is shot. 

I disagree. I think if Purp knew then that Burke would be fuck-all lost in CF, Pence would have started the year with the big club.  I think this move is more a realization we are FUCKED in CF right now, not a desperate move to jump start the offense.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #158 on: April 28, 2007, 01:32:47 am »
I think he would have made the move out of camp, but there were two factors against it.

1) Burke had earned a chance to play every day based on his utility role success the last few years

2)  He gave luke scott the job out of camp two years ago and it backfired in his face.    He was afraid it might happen again.



22 games into the season, his creditability is shot.  That calculation is a desperation move.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #159 on: April 28, 2007, 01:33:11 am »
Yeah, well I need my boss to triple my salary and give me afternoon off so I can blow the increase in salary at the strip club, but it ain't gonna happen.

Not to go Denny Green, but MoBerg is who we thought he was.  He has value as an OBP guy.  Use it.

Use it?  When?  Lance and Lee are ice cold.  Lane has no business on the roster, and Scott is streakier than a 5 year old's underwear.  You want to bank on Pence doing what they can't?
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #160 on: April 28, 2007, 01:33:48 am »
Yeah, well I need my boss to triple my salary and give me afternoon off so I can blow the increase in salary at the strip club, but it ain't gonna happen.

Not to go Denny Green, but MoBerg is who we thought he was.  He has value as an OBP guy.  Use it.

Not saying I disagree with you, but i'm not sure pence is the solution to the 5 hole.   Which is the problem.  And you have a guy in loretta who can be every bit the number 2 hitter as morgan except in power.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #161 on: April 28, 2007, 01:34:48 am »
I disagree. I think if Purp knew then that Burke would be fuck-all lost in CF, Pence would have started the year with the big club.  I think this move is more a realization we are FUCKED in CF right now, not a desperate move to jump start the offense.

He said two days ago he's ok with Burke's progress in center.   All of a sudden he realizes he has to make a change?  That is the dictionary definition of desperate.  Tim Purpura is lost and confused at this point.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #162 on: April 28, 2007, 01:35:56 am »
That's pussified and accepting of Ensberg's failure.  Ensberg knows full well the Astros have continually signed him to be a middle of the order hitter.  Accept Ensberg's failure not by moving him in the order but by benching him.  Lamb at 5, Pence at 7, and Everett at 2.

You can't trot Lamb out there everyday, his defense will kill you.  This is a bad defensive club already.  I half expect to see Everett start throwing his glove on the ground like Tanner Boyle each time Burke fucks one up out in the OF.

You see pal, that's who I am, and you're nothing. Nice guy, I don't give a shit. Good father, fuck you. Go home and play with your kids. You wanna work here, close. You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you cocksucker? You can't take this, how can you take the abuse you get on a sit?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #163 on: April 28, 2007, 01:36:31 am »
He said two days ago he's ok with Burke's progress in center.   All of a sudden he realizes he has to make a change?  That is the dictionary definition of desperate.  Tim Purpura is lost and confused at this point.

Unless, Drayton or Tal told him to do it now.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #164 on: April 28, 2007, 01:37:57 am »
You can't trot Lamb out there everyday, his defense will kill you.  This is a bad defensive club already.  I half expect to see Everett start throwing his glove on the ground like Tanner Boyle each time Burke fucks one up out in the OF.



Well then you're lost in the middle of the order.  Because expecting the new guy to do what the more experience big boys haven't is desperate.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #165 on: April 28, 2007, 01:38:08 am »
Unless, Drayton or Tal told him to do it now.

Then that's a whole nother story.  Errand boys are a lot cheaper than actual GMs.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #166 on: April 28, 2007, 01:38:57 am »
22 games into the season, his creditability is shot.  That calculation is a desperation move.

Well of course it's a "desperation" move.  I still say if burke wasn't a sieve at patrolling CF, this move doesn't occur.   But, I really don't think this is a let's appease the locals move.

It's a chris burke isn't hitting nor playing any quality defense, who is the logical replacement move.   Lane?   I'd gamble on pence too if that was my only other CF option.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #167 on: April 28, 2007, 01:39:15 am »
Good lord, 9 pages in 3 hours from the night shift?

I'll put the over/under on the number of pages by 6:05pm at 70.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #168 on: April 28, 2007, 01:40:30 am »
Unless, Drayton or Tal told him to do it now.

my thought exactly.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #169 on: April 28, 2007, 01:41:06 am »
Well of course it's a "desperation" move.  I still say if burke wasn't a sieve at patrolling CF, this move doesn't occur.   But, I really don't think this is a let's appease the locals move.

It's a chris burke isn't hitting nor playing any quality defense, who is the logical replacement move.   Lane?   I'd gamble on pence too if that was my only other CF option.

Yeah,  I cant keep explaining this.  He could have made the exact same move April 2.  22 games are not sufficient to change a professional baseball executives mind. 

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #170 on: April 28, 2007, 01:43:14 am »
Well of course it's a "desperation" move.  I still say if burke wasn't a sieve at patrolling CF, this move doesn't occur.   But, I really don't think this is a let's appease the locals move.

It's a chris burke isn't hitting nor playing any quality defense, who is the logical replacement move.   Lane?   I'd gamble on pence too if that was my only other CF option.

Burke's defense isn't the reason the Astros can't score runs and have a 7 game losing streak.  I bet they still would have called up Pence if Burke were getting it done in center except to take right field not center.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #171 on: April 28, 2007, 01:44:28 am »
Use it?  When?  Lance and Lee are ice cold.  Lane has no business on the roster, and Scott is streakier than a 5 year old's underwear.  You want to bank on Pence doing what they can't?

Yeah they are ice cold and part of the problem is when they do get their occasional hit, nobody is on base.  I don't want to rely on Pence but every other option has things wrong with it:

Lamb can't field
MoBerg has become a puss
Lane should be hitting 30 HRs  year in Japan with Tuffy Rhodes
Scott is still a work-in-progress
Loretta needs a position

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #172 on: April 28, 2007, 01:45:47 am »
Yeah they are ice cold and part of the problem is when they do get their occasional hit, nobody is on base.  I don't want to rely on Pence but every other option has things wrong with it:

Lamb can't field
MoBerg has become a puss
Lane should be hitting 30 HRs  year in Japan with Tuffy Rhodes
Scott is still a work-in-progress
Loretta needs a position



Loretta needs a position he can field.  And dont say 2b, because that is not going to happen. 

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #173 on: April 28, 2007, 01:48:21 am »
Well then you're lost in the middle of the order.  Because expecting the new guy to do what the more experience big boys haven't is desperate.

yes, we are lost in the middle of the lineup as currently constructed.  Thus Purp reached down into his bag o' players and grabbed the best one.  I don't sense the desperation involved in calling up your #1 hitting prospect who almost won a job coming out of spring training.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #174 on: April 28, 2007, 01:48:57 am »
Yeah,  I cant keep explaining this.  He could have made the exact same move April 2.  22 games are not sufficient to change a professional baseball executives mind. 


The only thing I will say is the quote the other day about burke's progress defensively doesn't jive with this move, but right now you have a team that started 1-5 at home, is on a 7 game skid, has three key pitchers battling injury, not to mention the offensive woes.

It's a little early for said move, but I think purp is genuinely concerned this team might dig a hole like they did in 2005.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #175 on: April 28, 2007, 01:50:27 am »
yes, we are lost in the middle of the lineup as currently constructed.  Thus Purp reached down into his bag o' players and grabbed the best one.  I don't sense the desperation involved in calling up your #1 hitting prospect who almost won a job coming out of spring training.

When he defended that decision as late as yesterday?  He had definitive reasons why the decision was wrong 22 games ago.  Is small sample size relevant anymore?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #176 on: April 28, 2007, 01:51:00 am »
Loretta needs a position he can field.  And dont say 2b, because that is not going to happen. 

I agree.  He ain't a SS and he's not much of an offensive upgrade (if any) to MoBerg at 3B.  And his defense at 3B ins't a lot better than Clank's.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #177 on: April 28, 2007, 01:51:15 am »
The only thing I will say is the quote the other day about burke's progress defensively doesn't jive with this move, but right now you have a team that started 1-5 at home, is on a 7 game skid, has three key pitchers battling injury, not to mention the offensive woes.

It's a little early for said move, but I think purp is genuinely concerned this team might dig a hole like they did in 2005.

Again, definition of desperate.  This is not a logical move.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #178 on: April 28, 2007, 01:53:00 am »
Burke's defense isn't the reason the Astros can't score runs and have a 7 game losing streak.  I bet they still would have called up Pence if Burke were getting it done in center except to take right field not center.

Of course not, but as a major leaguer, you have to bring something to the table night in/night out.  Burke ihas been bad defensively in CF and he's not hitting.  If you aren't going to hit, you have to be a great fielder(see everett/ausmus) if you aren't to field you better hit(see a guy like mike piazza).

The team is hitting a combined .238 or so, so it's definitely not a one man problem.  But burke's defensive woes in center are what have him replaced over scott, who isn't hitting either.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #179 on: April 28, 2007, 01:53:25 am »
yes, we are lost in the middle of the lineup as currently constructed.  Thus Purp reached down into his bag o' players and grabbed the best one.  I don't sense the desperation involved in calling up your #1 hitting prospect who almost won a job coming out of spring training.

It is desperate.  This is nearly the exact same team that dicked around for the first 45 games of 2005.  Taveras wasn't any great shakes that year in the field, though better than Burke, and at the plate he was mediocre.  Purp left them alone.  Why not leave this team alone for 45 games+?  Especially when Purp's on record in a positive way about Burke in center?
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #180 on: April 28, 2007, 01:53:59 am »
When he defended that decision as late as yesterday?  He had definitive reasons why the decision was wrong 22 games ago.  Is small sample size relevant anymore?

I'll answer with the stock answer that just cuz a GM says it, doesn't really mean he means it.  

But your point is valid.  I could be wrong.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #181 on: April 28, 2007, 01:57:13 am »
It is desperate.  This is nearly the exact same team that dicked around for the first 45 games of 2005.  Taveras wasn't any great shakes that year in the field, though better than Burke, and at the plate he was mediocre.  Purp left them alone.  Why not leave this team alone for 45 games+?  Especially when Purp's on record in a positive way about Burke in center?

45+ games?  Is that the magic number?

I don't care what Purp is on the record with regarding Burke in CF.  Burke in CF has been a Grade A fucking disaster.  If Purp truly feels Burke in CF has been anything close to positive, shitcan him right now.  That has to be textbook GM horeshit for the press. 
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #182 on: April 28, 2007, 01:58:46 am »
Of course not, but as a major leaguer, you have to bring something to the table night in/night out.  Burke ihas been bad defensively in CF and he's not hitting.  If you aren't going to hit, you have to be a great fielder(see everett/ausmus) if you aren't to field you better hit(see a guy like mike piazza).

The team is hitting a combined .238 or so, so it's definitely not a one man problem.  But burke's defensive woes in center are what have him replaced over scott, who isn't hitting either.

If Lance, Lee, Ensberg, and Scott were hitting as expected or at least reasonably well Pence would not have been called up to take Burke's place.  The Astros would be scoring sufficiently to not have had a 7 game losing streak.  And, Purp would still be talking about how Burke is getting better in center.

That said if 1 guy is going to get replaced by Pence in the starting lineup your choice is benching Burke or Scott/Lane.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #183 on: April 28, 2007, 01:59:14 am »
Again, definition of desperate.  This is not a logical move.

I think it's both logical and desperate at the same time.    Burke right now is bringing nothing to the table, while pence is hitting at AAA confirming what we saw in ST to some degree.   The only other option is to mix in Lane more, and I don't really see how that will help things. 


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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #184 on: April 28, 2007, 01:59:48 am »
I'll answer with the stock answer that just cuz a GM says it, doesn't really mean he means it.  

But your point is valid.  I could be wrong.

If you think that's my stock answer, you havent been paying attention.  Purpura has abruptly reversed what he has been saying since February.  That is why I think this is desperate.   And, ultimately wrong.  Of course, major league pitchers and scouts could miss that Pence can be induced to swing at sliders away.  On the other hand we can think of a hitter who has had that problem for 20 years now.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #185 on: April 28, 2007, 02:00:10 am »
...and if Pence comes up and posts a .290/.380./.540 line?
That would just upgrade the offense from "record-setting, historically bad" to "plain awful"...
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #186 on: April 28, 2007, 02:01:31 am »
I think it's both logical and desperate at the same time.    Burke right now is bringing nothing to the table, while pence is hitting at AAA confirming what we saw in ST to some degree.   The only other option is to mix in Lane more, and I don't really see how that will help things. 




"Logical and desperate."  The only response to that would be a Jose Lima style rally cap. 

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #187 on: April 28, 2007, 02:02:44 am »
If Lance, Lee, Ensberg, and Scott were hitting as expected or at least reasonably well Pence would not have been called up to take Burke's place.  The Astros would be scoring sufficiently to not have had a 7 game losing streak.  And, Purp would still be talking about how Burke is getting better in center.


Again, I agree as the record wouldn't be 9-13 if that was the case.   But if somebody had to go to make room for pence, burke's lousy defense is why he is losing out over luke scott.

And i'd argue you could justify the move even if the rest of the lineup was hitting.  Just because things are going well doesn't mean you can't tweak for improvement.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #188 on: April 28, 2007, 02:05:38 am »
If you think that's my stock answer, you havent been paying attention.  Purpura has abruptly reversed what he has been saying since February.  That is why I think this is desperate.   And, ultimately wrong.  Of course, major league pitchers and scouts could miss that Pence can be induced to swing at sliders away.  On the other hand we can think of a hitter who has had that problem for 20 years now.

Pence is going to hit 15 HRs over the next 6 games and all will be well.  Besides, after the Texans fuck up another draft choice, nobody is going to care about the Astros for a few days.  And by then the Rockets will have choked away the series versus Utah.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #189 on: April 28, 2007, 02:07:22 am »
"Logical and desperate."  The only response to that would be a Jose Lima style rally cap. 

I don't see how it isn't both at the same time.  Burke hasn't taken hold of CF and ran with it by any means, and you have your best young hitter tearing up AAA after tearing up spring training who happens to be capable of playing CF.   Thus it's logical to give the young hitter a shot to see if he can do better.

It's desperate because you are trying a last gasp effort to pull out of a early funk and prevent a big hole to dig out of like they had to do in 2004.

Most of the time logical and desperate do not go together, as desperate people normally do illogical things, but it works in this specific case.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 02:09:56 am by DVauthrin »
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #190 on: April 28, 2007, 02:09:21 am »
Again, I agree as the record wouldn't be 9-13 if that was the case.   But if somebody had to go to make room for pence, burke's lousy defense is why he is losing out over luke scott.

And i'd argue you could justify the move even if the rest of the lineup was hitting.  Just because things are going well doesn't mean you can't tweak for improvement.

It also doesn't mean you have to increase the risk of messing up your top prospect by calling him up earlier than you'd like.  Hell, if Pence were still hitting at least consistently even if not as torrid as now come June 1 and then called up I wouldn't have an issue with the move.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #191 on: April 28, 2007, 02:11:13 am »
I don't see how it isn't both at the same time.  Burke hasn't taken hold of CF and ran with it by any means, and you have your best young hitter tearing up AAA after tearing up spring training who happens to be capable of playing CF.   Thus it's logical to give the young hitter a shot to see if he can do better.

It's desperate because you are trying a last gasp effort to pull out of a early funk and prevent a 15-30 start from two years ago.   

Most of the time logical and desperate do not go together, as desperate people normally do illogical things, but it works in this specific case.

You're guessing about this, right?  How is game 22 in a 162 game season a last gasp?  It does not work.  It is ridiculous and counter to every public statement that the organization has uttered to this point. 

DVauthrin

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #192 on: April 28, 2007, 02:13:44 am »
It also doesn't mean you have to increase the risk of messing up your top prospect by calling him up earlier than you'd like.  Hell, if Pence were still hitting at least consistently even if not as torrid as now come June 1 and then called up I wouldn't have an issue with the move.

If the Astros felt this would potentially damage Pence they wouldn't do it.   At least, they never have in the past.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #193 on: April 28, 2007, 02:20:54 am »
You're guessing about this, right?  How is game 22 in a 162 game season a last gasp?  It does not work.  It is ridiculous and counter to every public statement that the organization has uttered to this point. 

Last gasp wasn't the best choice of words there i'll admit.    But by last gasp, I meant if you've tried all the different lineup combos you might use and nothing is working, the next step is either hope everyone snaps out of it, make a trade, or hope for a hot minor league callup that might provide a short term spark.   They are choosing the latter, with the top hitting prospect in the organization, who happens to be hitting in AAA.

But I have to think the jennings injury, along with white and woody's arm barking, plus the questions at the back end of the rotation present from day 1 this season have purpura thinking if the offense snoozes for much longer, it could create a 2005 like hole the team has to come back from.   Of course that's speculation on my part, but i'm guessing like everyone else why he might make said move right now.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #194 on: April 28, 2007, 02:22:50 am »
If the Astros felt this would potentially damage Pence they wouldn't do it.   At least, they never have in the past.



To my way of thinking, all bets are off.   This is not the Astros I have been following closely for the past 10 years.  They paniced with Lidge and now the same thing with bringing up Pence.  Maybe the same thing with trading for Jennings.  I'm going to have to take a step back from what's going on here.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #195 on: April 28, 2007, 02:26:35 am »
To my way of thinking, all bets are off.   This is not the Astros I have been following closely for the past 10 years.  They paniced with Lidge and now the same thing with bringing up Pence.  Maybe the same thing with trading for Jennings.  I'm going to have to take a step back from what's going on here.

I'll agree that they seem to be making more moves to do the record than I can recall.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #196 on: April 28, 2007, 04:33:36 am »
how many games have you seen in RR? what you are is star struck. talk to me about anything but baseball from now on. you clearly don't get it.

Jim, I hear your point and appreciate that yu know tons more about baseball in general and RR in specific than 99% of us. I trust you that Pence isn't ready. But my honest question is whether he's any less ready to hit ML pitching than some of the guys the Stros are currently using. Isn't the relevant question whether or not he's more ready than the player he'll be replacing any given time he bats? Honest question - I'm sure I'm missing something.  If this is an admission of failure at the ML level, such admission seems well-based to me right now.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #197 on: April 28, 2007, 07:32:43 am »
i cannot believe that this thread is not still going! y'all went to sleep?

hell no, Zan, that is not the criterion. player development is an individual thing, and the player's readiness is judged by how he is progressing against the level of competition he is. imo, top prospects should be brought along carefully and not rushed. baseball is humbling enough as it is without putting someone with great promise into a situation he is not ready to handle.

that said, i do not have a clue how Pence will do. i hope he hits .600 and is MVP of the WS. how well he does is not the point to me. this promotion is not a sound baseball move after only 20 games at AAA, and it smacks of pandering to radio talk show callers and hosts. those types not believe that Pence will turn this team around, and those expectations have the potential to be create crushing pressure. i believe, as Alkie said first, that this is a desperation move that borders on panic. i do not believe that the baseball people made it. i hope it works out.

Pence barely hit .100 during the first homestand with 2 HRs, but he picked it up with three hits in the last game and on the road to return hitting .320. during this homestand, he has kept his average at that mark, and he hit 1 HR. he did not show great power at RR, but he hits the ball very hard and runs well. he was somewhat of an adventure in CF, but of course he will be better than Burke. he is fun to watch because of his skill and because he appears to have fun playing.

good for Hunter Pence, and i know he is thrilled. bringing him up in April after only 20 games in AAA, though, just shows how desperate someone in Astros' management is. i do not think the desperate one is named Smith, Purpura or Garner.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #198 on: April 28, 2007, 08:04:05 am »
To my way of thinking, all bets are off.   This is not the Astros I have been following closely for the past 10 years.  They paniced with Lidge and now the same thing with bringing up Pence.  Maybe the same thing with trading for Jennings.  I'm going to have to take a step back from what's going on here.

Keep unproductive #5 hitter....check
Trade away good CFer (and he was the 2nd half of last year) & top AAA pitcher (who looks like ROY material so far) for a one year rental....check
Send Lane to play CF in winter ball for plan B...check
Rush top prospect corner OF to be CF and offensive savior...check


 

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #199 on: April 28, 2007, 08:06:56 am »
I might have missed this, but here's what Berkman had to say:

''I think it's a horrible move,'' Lance Berkman said. ''... I think it's unfair to Chris. I think it sends the wrong message to the team that there's something drastic that needs to be fixed. I don't like it. If you're going to put Chris Burke on the bench, I think it's a horrible move...''

To matadorph and Foggy, I got way off track last night with my original point.  I don't think it will wreck Pence beyond repair and that wasn't really my concern when I heard this.  My concern is that this club is not the Astros I've watched my whole life.  This is bizarre.  They are making rash, reactionary moves, and that really does scare and concern me. 

As recently as 3 days ago, I was pretty seriously thinking about getting season tickets (yes, during the losing streak).  I'm definitely not shelling out $4,500 now.  How you like that, Drayton?

And in any case, what do I care?  Aren't I a pope now with this post?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #200 on: April 28, 2007, 08:13:12 am »
You want to fix the offense without being totally desperate?

Biggio 2B
Loretta 3B
Berkman RF
Lee LF
Lamb 1B
Bruntlett (you heard me) CF
Everett SS
Ausmus C
P

Yes, you make Lance play RF.  He's done it before.  A lot.  And he's better out there than most people ever gave him credit for.  Don't like Loretta at 3rd and Lamb at 1st?  Switch em. 

You want offense?  You find a fucking way to get Loretta (.361  .410  .417  so far) and Lamb (.333  .467  .375  so far) into the goddamn lineup.  What fucking good does it do to have a fantastic bench if we're down 3+ every night in the 7th inning?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #201 on: April 28, 2007, 08:14:24 am »


And in any case, what do I care?  Aren't I a pope now with this post?

Shouldn't smoke be coming from some tower?  Infallibility...nice skill to have

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #202 on: April 28, 2007, 08:15:24 am »
Shouldn't smoke be coming from some tower?  Infallibility...nice skill to have

Oh, no question.  Now I'm going to go put my head in an oven and my hand in a blender.  This is the saddest day of my life.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #203 on: April 28, 2007, 08:19:44 am »
Keep unproductive #5 hitter....check
Trade away good CFer (and he was the 2nd half of last year) & top AAA pitcher (who looks like ROY material so far) for a one year rental....check
Send Lane to play CF in winter ball for plan B...check
Rush top prospect corner OF to be CF and offensive savior...check

you are way too hard on the trade, and you rate WT and JH too high, imo.

they tried to trade Mo every single day during the off season--no takers.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #204 on: April 28, 2007, 08:21:49 am »
You want to fix the offense without being totally desperate?

Biggio 2B
Loretta 3B
Berkman RF
Lee LF
Lamb 1B
Bruntlett (you heard me) CF
Everett SS
Ausmus C
P

Yes, you make Lance play RF.  He's done it before.  A lot.  And he's better out there than most people ever gave him credit for.  Don't like Loretta at 3rd and Lamb at 1st?  Switch em. 

You want offense?  You find a fucking way to get Loretta (.361  .410  .417  so far) and Lamb (.333  .467  .375  so far) into the goddamn lineup.  What fucking good does it do to have a fantastic bench if we're down 3+ every night in the 7th inning?

Berkman in RF or in any OF position every day except LF is a bad idea. Loretta playing every day is a great idea.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #205 on: April 28, 2007, 08:24:51 am »
This is the saddest day of my life.

No it isn't.  Your Houston Astros have a new starting CFer tonight

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #206 on: April 28, 2007, 08:26:03 am »
When he defended that decision as late as yesterday?  He had definitive reasons why the decision was wrong 22 games ago.  Is small sample size relevant anymore?

See Lidge, Brad. Garner said he'd have to blow 10 saves to lose his job. Lidge blows one. Garner says "he's still my closer." Lidge has a crappy mop-up getting some work in appearance, Garner says "he's out of the role."

Was that also "desparation"? It sure followed the same path of reversing course immediately after reassuring the status quo.
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Alkie

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #207 on: April 28, 2007, 08:27:18 am »
No it isn't.  Your Houston Astros have a new starting CFer tonight

I'm now only the 4th non-Admin to prove that he spends way too much time online.

I also think we should retire the board before that wanna-be MusicMan makes it some time later today.

So, are MM and I the Biggio and Bagwell of this board?  Wow.  What pressure.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #208 on: April 28, 2007, 08:29:19 am »
See Lidge, Brad. Garner said he'd have to blow 10 saves to lose his job. Lidge blows one. Garner says "he's still my closer." Lidge has a crappy mop-up getting some work in appearance, Garner says "he's out of the role."

Was that also "desparation"? It sure followed the same path of reversing course immediately after reassuring the status quo.

It WAS desperate.  I agreed with it.  But it was desperate.

There's a really good reason why I do what I do for a living and why Phil and Tim do what they do for a living. 

My job is to overreact.  Their job is to ignore me and win ballgames.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #209 on: April 28, 2007, 09:13:23 am »
Desperation....

1) 100 million dollar investment in El Caballo
2) Lidge Closer reaction
3) Will Clemens sign with Stros issue
4) Pence Call up
5) Garner & Lineups
6) Minor League Talent Pool

Frankly, this points to the Astros having to win this year mantra.
Coach Raup & Pravata are right; this is a top down behavior change
to what we have seen in the past.  Losing 6 to piroots rattled the Purp's
& Drayton's cage and Jennings injury hasn't helped.... throw that on top of Berkman getting off to a poor start and you have an anxious team..

I am wondering if Drayton isn't almost done and looking to sell (I have nothing
to back up that speculation, but could account for the cock-up moves recently)

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #210 on: April 28, 2007, 09:14:38 am »
You want to fix the offense without being totally desperate?

Biggio 2B
Loretta 3B
Berkman RF
Lee LF
Lamb 1B
Bruntlett (you heard me) CF
Everett SS
Ausmus C
P

Yes, you make Lance play RF.  He's done it before.  A lot.  And he's better out there than most people ever gave him credit for.  Don't like Loretta at 3rd and Lamb at 1st?  Switch em. 

You want offense?  You find a fucking way to get Loretta (.361  .410  .417  so far) and Lamb (.333  .467  .375  so far) into the goddamn lineup.  What fucking good does it do to have a fantastic bench if we're down 3+ every night in the 7th inning?

Bruntlett and Lorette (8 HRs in the past two years) improves an offense?

If you start two players who haven't played a full season in majors (Burke and Scott- who I like -and PLEASE not Lane), start a lead off hitter with a OBP below .300, and two of the worst offensive players in baseball you offense will suck.   Berkman was a monster last year and the offense stunk.   Lee can have a great year this year and the offense will still stink.  Even Ensberg can return to his 2005 form and you'll still have a mediocre at best offense.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #211 on: April 28, 2007, 09:15:35 am »
So....we should just quit?

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #212 on: April 28, 2007, 09:18:55 am »
I am wondering if Drayton isn't almost done and looking to sell (I have nothing
to back up that speculation, but could account for the cock-up moves recently.


Just what I was thinking.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #213 on: April 28, 2007, 09:20:55 am »
So....we should just quit?

no, I am in the camp that acknowledges there is a problem, but there
is an element of reactivity to fixing it that may cause further problems
down the road... quitting not an option, in fact the problem may stem from
a short time period to accomplish something that we do not have the details of
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #214 on: April 28, 2007, 09:21:49 am »
And in any case, what do I care?  Aren't I a pope now with this post?

I am sure Mrs. Alkie is really pissed now.  Celibacy anyone?
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #215 on: April 28, 2007, 09:24:29 am »
Just what I was thinking.

I think Drayton is a baseball fan. He would leave a bitter legacy, and aren't all such rich owners megalomaniacs to some degree?

IMO, I had a sneaking suspicion that the 1 month mark would trigger some early shuffling. Regarding all of Purp's public statements, he was talking to more than just the general public: he had to give some kind of confidence to the players that they would get their chance--"Lidge? you're the closer, no worries, just do what we tell you and your performance will be fine."
"Burke? You're a hard worker. It will come together. Just do what we tell you at the plate, and practice, practice, practice"

And so forth. I see Purp's comments as motivational and not indicative of their true thoughts on how much of a rope his players have had.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #216 on: April 28, 2007, 09:27:56 am »
With the exception of the Beltran run in 2004, this team has won between 84 and 89 games the past five seasons.   Slightly above average.  I figured this year about 80-82, same as last year.  We've been in the race most years due to a weak division and thankfully we still have a weak division.

On the offensive side, we've made a commitment to Biggio this season.   I know this heresy to some good folks here, but I think this team cannot afford the luxury of Everett/Ausmus and has has lacked the farm system produce real ML regulars (Burke and Lane were supposed to be those players).

On the pitching side, Jennings is hurt (I'm watching Hirsh) and Wandy and Sampson are the back of our rotation and our closer has melted down.

I think bringing up Pence is the thing to do.  I hope the club sticks with him and gives him a chance to succeed.   The Burke thing has been incredibly frustrating because it seems like we've spent 3 years moving him around unsure of what to do with him and undecided if he's really a future every day player or not.   
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #217 on: April 28, 2007, 09:31:32 am »
I figured this year about 80-82, same as last year.    

What do you base this on?  As much as the offense has underperformed this year, the pitching has (largely) outperformed.   Overall, every Astro playing at their realistic expectations this season (not hopeful expectations)...this ain't a .500 team as-is.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #218 on: April 28, 2007, 09:35:08 am »
I think Drayton is a baseball fan. He would leave a bitter legacy, and aren't all such rich owners megalomaniacs to some degree?


How would Drayton leave a bitter legacy? Under his ownership the franchise has become a perennial contender and won its first pennant? That's not even taking into account his impact in the community.
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David in Jackson

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #219 on: April 28, 2007, 09:37:25 am »
What do you base this on?  As much as the offense has underperformed this year, the pitching has (largely) outperformed.   Overall, every Astro playing at their realistic expectations this season (not hopeful expectations)...this ain't a .500 team as-is.

Berkman will hit (aside: has anybody posted about Lance's comment on the Burke move?).  Lee will hit.  The rotation feels weaker, if that's possible, than when we started with Woody getting a cortisone shot and Jennings shaky, and Lidge confirming our worst fears.  Maybe I was optimistic.
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DVauthrin

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #220 on: April 28, 2007, 09:40:04 am »
I would love to get lamb and loretta both in the lineup everyday, but there just isn't room right now.   What does concern me is lance's quote above.   That is the first time in awhile i've ever seen a leader in the astros clubhouse bash a gm move to the press.

This team is better than an 80-82 win team if they can get the offense clicking and jennings healthy soon.   The only guy really pitching over his head is Wandy, and the astros always find guys in AAA to plug in as needed and give them quality innings.  See sampson, munro, etc.    I just wish we could solidify the 5th spot in the lineup somehow.   Maybe pence can do it?  Maybe morgan pulls his head out his ass?   Maybe lamb becomes the everyday 3b and does it?  One way or another that is the big concern I see in the lineup.   

Regardless 85-90 wins likely takes the central, so they'll be in the race again.   
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #221 on: April 28, 2007, 09:41:35 am »
I'm wondering if somebody hasn't said "Phil, we love you, but if this team digs ANOTHER first-half hole like it has the last three years, you'll be gone. We're going to give you Pence, you figure out how to make it work." Yes, it sounds stupid, and yes, the first hole was dug on Williams' watch, and yes, they've managed to climb out (or nearly out) of the hole each time under Garner's direction. But I think somebody (and I think Jim is right, that somebody is Drayton) is tired of the pattern.

At least this would explain the look in Garner's eyes last night.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #222 on: April 28, 2007, 09:43:34 am »
Man, I hope they don't fire Garner.

I know they don't give a shit, but I'll go from unimpressed to upset. 

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #223 on: April 28, 2007, 09:45:07 am »
i cannot believe that this thread is not still going! y'all went to sleep?

hell no, Zan, that is not the criterion. player development is an individual thing, and the player's readiness is judged by how he is progressing against the level of competition he is. imo, top prospects should be brought along carefully and not rushed. baseball is humbling enough as it is without putting someone with great promise into a situation he is not ready to handle.


Obligatories first: I am very dumb. I have no right to expect to talk baseball with you since your baseball knowledge far exceeds mine, but here goes.....

What makes you think that Pence is being rushed and has not been carefully developed? What makes you think he's not ready? He's had quality at-bats against AAA pitching and hasn't been exposed. Do you disagree?  I thought he'd maybe get the call after June or July, so I don't think a month or two is necessarily rushing him.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #224 on: April 28, 2007, 09:45:42 am »
I would love to get lamb and loretta both in the lineup everyday, but there just isn't room right now.   What does concern me is lance's quote above.   That is the first time in awhile i've ever seen a leader in the astros clubhouse bash a gm move to the press.

This team is better than an 80-82 win team if they can get the offense clicking and jennings healthy soon.   The only guy really pitching over his head is Wandy, and the astros always find guys in AAA to plug in as needed and give them quality innings.  See sampson, munro, etc.    I just wish we could solidify the 5th spot in the lineup somehow.   Maybe pence can do it?  Maybe morgan pulls his head out his ass?   Maybe lamb becomes the everyday 3b and does it?  One way or another that is the big concern I see in the lineup.   

Regardless 85-90 wins likely takes the central, so they'll be in the race again.   

On Loretta: He can't be an everyday SS and hasn't played the position regularly for years.   Also, he signed with Houston knowing the deal with Biggio.  To me, that says he didn't have any good offers from the other 29 teams to play 2b every day.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #225 on: April 28, 2007, 09:46:25 am »
Berkman will hit (aside: has anybody posted about Lance's comment on the Burke move?).  

No one posted it, but it was referenced.  Here it is:

Quote

Lance Berkman doesn't see it that way. He thinks benching Burke is a "horrible move."

"I think Hunter Pence deserves to play in the big leagues," Berkman said. "He's got a bright future. I think he's very talented, and I don't object to them calling him up to try to spark us. But I think it's unfair to Chris. I think it sends the wrong message to the team that there's something drastic that needs to be fixed. I don't like it. If you're going to put Chris Burke on the bench, I think it's a horrible move."

Berkman doesn't think a 22-game sampling is enough.

"You have to let a guy settle in a little bit," he said. "Look at me, I'm hitting .200. Does that mean I'm going to end up hitting .230? Absolutely not.

"As an organization, you have to identify your talent and say, 'We believe in this guy,' and then give him a chance to play. Seventy at-bats is not a chance. That's a very, very small sliver of the season.

"Nothing against Hunter. I think he deserves to be here. I think he's going to do great when he gets a chance. But then my question is, what if Hunter comes up and struggles after 60 or 70 at-bats? Then you've got two guys thinking, 'What's going on here -- do I belong in this organization?' and that sort of thing. I don't think that's the right move, putting Chris on the bench."

Other players had different views.

"The things is we don't need a bat," Brad Ausmus said. "We're just not hitting. But when you're not hitting, you try to find an answer. Hunter Pence is a very high-ceiling young player. He could maybe inject some energy into the lineup. We'll see."

Roy Oswalt, who had very little run support en route to his second loss of the season, called Pence "lively."

"He can bring life to the club," Oswalt said. "He gets excited when he gets on the field. Hopefully everybody feeds off that. Adding his bat into the lineup is going to add more power and another threat for a home-run ball."

 

Here's the entire article:
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070428&content_id=1934364&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 09:47:58 am by JaneDoe »
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #226 on: April 28, 2007, 09:48:11 am »
SHUT THE FUCK UP LANCE

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #227 on: April 28, 2007, 09:49:40 am »
Loretta can't play SS but he can play 3b and right now my patience is thin with sir stancealot(ensberg).   He also is an ideal number 2 hitter.

Give me lamb or loretta over ensberg at this point. 
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #228 on: April 28, 2007, 09:51:20 am »
Obligatories first: I am very dumb. I have no right to expect to talk baseball with you since your baseball knowledge far exceeds mine, but here goes.....

What makes you think that Pence is being rushed and has not been carefully developed? What makes you think he's not ready? He's had quality at-bats against AAA pitching and hasn't been exposed. Do you disagree?  I thought he'd maybe get the call after June or July, so I don't think a month or two is necessarily rushing him.

I'm afraid that Pence is going to have several Burke moments in the MMPUS CF. He's had several bad reads/bad routes in just the handful of RR games that I've watched this year. I think he'll get better with time, but the fans' mood right now is unlikely to be very forgiving, and things could get ugly if he makes many (or maybe even any) gaffes like I've seen in RR.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #229 on: April 28, 2007, 09:52:29 am »
I should have said that Drayton, I suspect (for what that's worth) has the outlook of the run-of-the-mill baseball fan--his view of a legacy is how he leaves the team--and making decisions to raise its value and see it flop (which is how I interpreted the previous posts--could have been wrong) would not leave him in a good light in the Houston community. Besides, he's said he's wanted to win, and leaving before winning would surely hit a rich man's ego a little hard

That said, the team has too many holes to be a contender this year. I think they knew this in Spring Training, but didn't know where they should make their moves. Now they've made their first, (or second if you count Lidge) right or wrong. Burke wasn't the answer in CF, and with the other cylinder's seizing up, his benching might have actually been their easiest decision to make.

Ensberg still has left them with question marks, showing at times good offensive form. Although I'm still confused (i.e. unconvinced it's a good idea) about why they ever put him in the 2 hole. I see decisions at third as the next step. When? Depends on how Ensberg responds with his plate approach.

Edited to add that Lidge was their first decision
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 09:55:46 am by Kean »

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #230 on: April 28, 2007, 09:55:01 am »
I'm afraid that Pence is going to have several Burke moments in the MMPUS CF. He's had several bad reads/bad routes in just the handful of RR games that I've watched this year. I think he'll get better with time, but the fans' mood right now is unlikely to be very forgiving, and things could get ugly if he makes many (or maybe even any) gaffes like I've seen in RR.

I don't see the fans giving the golden boy a hard time.   If it was up to a lot of them he would have started out of ST.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #231 on: April 28, 2007, 09:56:42 am »
If Brad Ausmus & Lance Berkman are telling you we don't
need another hitter, we just aren't hitting let us figure it out.
I would listen

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #232 on: April 28, 2007, 09:59:26 am »
If Brad Ausmus & Lance Berkman are telling you we don't
need another hitter, we just aren't hitting let us figure it out.
I would listen



see my above post--I don't think this is a panic decision. They would only make a move when it was obvious, finally, which one they should make. And that situation, of course, would most likely be a really bad one, where any moves could easily be seen as desperate

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #233 on: April 28, 2007, 09:59:47 am »
I don't see the fans giving the golden boy a hard time.   If it was up to a lot of them he would have started out of ST.

Just let him strikeout a few times and miss a ball or two in CF.  They have already practiced their April booing on Lidge, they are in prime form now.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #234 on: April 28, 2007, 10:11:46 am »
Lance Berkman needs to keep his fucking mouth shut and pay attention to what the hell he is doing on the field. After sleeping on this move, I'm convinced this is a wake up call for every single player on the team. No job is safe, and you better perform or you'll be collecting splinters. At least that is what it should be. Berkman should let his bat do the talking, not this whining about his buddy Burke and questioning management.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #235 on: April 28, 2007, 10:14:44 am »
see my above post--I don't think this is a panic decision. They would only make a move when it was obvious, finally, which one they should make. And that situation, of course, would most likely be a really bad one, where any moves could easily be seen as desperate

really? when in recent history has astros managment brought up their
top prospect after 22 games?  Purp thought Burke could it in CF and nows he
and drayton are second guessing themselves (the opposite of what they did
in 2004).  
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #236 on: April 28, 2007, 10:16:14 am »
Warning some fanta crap....

Wow, I'm bad luck to folks.  I dropped Lidge after the bad outing that fateful Sunday, and the next day I read he lost his role.
 Apr 8 5:31pm Brad Lidge (Hou - RP) Drop Red Cross Waivers


Then decided Burke was wasting a spot on my roster after the game last night...
 Apr 27 11:42pm Chris Burke (Hou - 2B,OF)  Drop Red Cross Waivers


Anyways, thought it was an interesting coincidence.  I've watched all but the Philly game of the current losing streak.  I do not feel Burke was at all responsible for the Astros inability to play well.  Though I don't feel he would ever be sufficient in center.  Hopefully this latest lesson will put an end to the let's convert a secondbaseman to center crap.   Though it did work for Soriano.  But in that case, he sucked at second so there was no concerns of a loss in defense.


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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #237 on: April 28, 2007, 10:19:04 am »
Warning some fanta crap....

Wow, I'm bad luck to folks.  I dropped Lidge after the bad outing that fateful Sunday, and the next day I read he lost his role.
 Apr 8 5:31pm Brad Lidge (Hou - RP) Drop Red Cross Waivers


Then decided Burke was wasting a spot on my roster after the game last night...
 Apr 27 11:42pm Chris Burke (Hou - 2B,OF)  Drop Red Cross Waivers


Aren't you special.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #238 on: April 28, 2007, 10:20:08 am »
Lance Berkman needs to keep his fucking mouth shut and pay attention to what the hell he is doing on the field. After sleeping on this move, I'm convinced this is a wake up call for every single player on the team. No job is safe, and you better perform or you'll be collecting splinters. At least that is what it should be. Berkman should let his bat do the talking, not this whining about his buddy Burke and questioning management.

This shows no insight whatsoever! Anybody can say "#17 should shut up and do his job"
That's easy and amateur... if you read between the lines, he is saying to management:
"the problem is with me right now and our teams' approach to hitting (Ausmus) not one player's performance after 22 games (Burke).  Why punish Burke? Everyone who is paying attention knows I been for shit... but I am not always going to be for shit and when I am not what are consequences for both Burke & Pence.  That's question: he is smart to say what he said.. His teammates will respect it.. the fans on the other hand
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #239 on: April 28, 2007, 10:24:30 am »
That's question: he is smart to say what he said.. His teammates will respect it.. the fans on the other hand

No, he shouldn't say things like this. No one else did. He needs to realize he ain't getting it done and in some small way, that contributed to Burke's losing his role. Shut up and produce.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #240 on: April 28, 2007, 10:29:09 am »
No, he shouldn't say things like this. No one else did. He needs to realize he ain't getting it done and in some small way, that contributed to Burke's losing his role. Shut up and produce.

Exactamente.

Berkman has no business going public with this.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #241 on: April 28, 2007, 10:32:51 am »
Exactamente.

Berkman has no business going public with this.

What are the consequences of going public: it places the real
focus where it should be an away from non superstars Burke
and Pence... He is not the GM true and dissent is not productive
to creating change, but managment has taken a U turn
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #242 on: April 28, 2007, 10:34:50 am »
This shows no insight whatsoever! Anybody can say "#17 should shut up and do his job"
That's easy and amateur... if you read between the lines, he is saying to management:
"the problem is with me right now and our teams' approach to hitting (Ausmus) not one player's performance after 22 games (Burke).  Why punish Burke? Everyone who is paying attention knows I been for shit... but I am not always going to be for shit and when I am not what are consequences for both Burke & Pence.  That's question: he is smart to say what he said.. His teammates will respect it.. the fans on the other hand

Bullshit. Berkman is whining. Just wait until Agent Ensberg is benched...hopefully real soon.

His teammates will respect it. Thats just fucking wonderful. The space cadet sticking up for his running buddy. Thats the important thing here, not that Burke lost his job because he sucked balls and the team had a highly rated prospect in waiting.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #243 on: April 28, 2007, 10:37:08 am »
I don't know how this will all turn out b/c I've never seen Hunter Pence play- that said I have 2 opininions on this topic:

1) whoever said Burke is a sacrifice to 3,000 is full of shit. I've heard Biggio should step aside for burke for about 4 or 5 years right now. BS.  Burke has never shown he is better than an aging and nearly decrepit biggio. Biggio is still getting the job done at 41 years old (more or less) and out performing Burke.  Burke has done absolultely nothing to supplant Bidge.  I'm sick of hearing this shit, and would have thought this place was intelligent enough not to have to deal with it.

2) I don't think, whatever happens, this will ruin Pence. I agree with Foghorn on this one. If he gets called up and shits the bed and can't ever get over it he is probably a pussy that wasn't ever going to succeed in MLB no matter what.  Luke Scott absolutley sucked when he got rushed up, but there he was in the back half of last year hitting damn near 400 for an entire half season.  Willie Mays was 0-22 or something to start his career.  Greg Maddux had an ERA closer to 6 then 4 (back when a 4 era in MLB was shitty) and he's a hall of famer. I'm not saying Pence is a hall of famer, I'm just saying that the list of guys who suck and then get it together later is a mile long, and if Hunter isn't a giant flaming gash he can bounce back if he happens to shit the bed.

3) after the first week of the year I posted that I was ready for Hunter Pence. Listening to Jim say he wasn't ready I said- OK- it isn't really Hunter Pence I'm ready for it is anyone other than Burke in CF. He was horrible. I hope that Hunter can at least play the position as a MLB calibre central gardener, which burke could not.  If he doesn't work out I'm fine with bruntlett, or lane, or a trade etc., but Chris Burke would never put on the outfield glove again if I ran the astros (and I'd trade his ass truthfully- someone could probably give something up for a 2b- maybe a flawed offensive but decent CF?)


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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #244 on: April 28, 2007, 10:37:58 am »
What are the consequences of going public: it places the real
focus where it should be an away from non superstars Burke
and Pence... He is not the GM true and dissent is not productive
to creating change, but managment has taken a U turn

He's created a potential media feeding frenzy if Pence flops.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #245 on: April 28, 2007, 10:45:37 am »
Bullshit. Berkman is whining.
We disagree... whining looks different to a coach.. this appears to be taking a risk and
stepping up to challenge the changes being made.... if it is whining then how does he voice dissent

Just wait until Agent Ensberg is benched...hopefully real soon.
I am talking about the present issue not this

His teammates will respect it. Thats just fucking wonderful. The space cadet sticking up for his running buddy. Thats the important thing here, not that Burke lost his job because he sucked balls and the team had a highly rated prospect in waiting.

It appears that you are only a taking a fan reactionary fan perspective with Berkman.
While Burke has been less than adequate, it has been 22 games and it appears their
is a bit a spring training hangover Pence effect going on... The best thing Berkman
could do regardless of who plays where is to take the responsibility off of all their shoulders as the develop into full time MLB players
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matadorph

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #246 on: April 28, 2007, 10:52:04 am »
It appears that you are only a taking a fan reactionary fan perspective with Berkman.
While Burke has been less than adequate, it has been 22 games and it appears their
is a bit a spring training hangover Pence effect going on... The best thing Berkman
could do regardless of who plays where is to take the responsibility off of all their shoulders as the develop into full time MLB players

Whether or not you agree with Berkman (his points were valid), I think most of us would be hard-pressed to endorse him criticizing management publicly. That's the kind of bullshit I expect from the Gints, Cubs, and steM, not the Houston Astros.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #247 on: April 28, 2007, 10:57:17 am »
Whether or not you agree with Berkman (his points were valid), I think most of us would be hard-pressed to endorse him criticizing management publicly. That's the kind of bullshit I expect from the Gints, Cubs, and steM, not the Houston Astros.

that is exactly what we got from Jeff Bagwell every year. Berkman spoke his mind, as did Bagwell. nothing wrong in what he said.

i repeat--and i have NO information about this--the decision was not made by the baseball people, imo.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 11:02:18 am by Jim R »
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #248 on: April 28, 2007, 11:27:15 am »
that is exactly what we got from Jeff Bagwell every year. Berkman spoke his mind, as did Bagwell. nothing wrong in what he said.
Isn't there a difference b/t saying it in January when it makes less of a splash & saying it the first month of the season when the org doesn't need any more problems?
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #249 on: April 28, 2007, 11:28:51 am »
He's created a potential media feeding frenzy if Pence flops.

He didn't create it; Purp did (who has the most power to effect change)
Berkman is reacting to the change in astros policy... that's it
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #250 on: April 28, 2007, 11:33:08 am »
Lance is just acting this way because Burke is his boy.   If it was Scott or Lane or Ensberg getting sent down, his reaction wouldn't have been as harsh, imo. 
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #251 on: April 28, 2007, 11:33:38 am »
1) whoever said Burke is a sacrifice to 3,000 is full of shit. I've heard Biggio should step aside for burke for about 4 or 5 years right now. BS.  Burke has never shown he is better than an aging and nearly decrepit biggio. Biggio is still getting the job done at 41 years old (more or less) and out performing Burke.  Burke has done absolultely nothing to supplant Bidge.  I'm sick of hearing this shit, and would have thought this place was intelligent enough not to have to deal with it.
Thank you very fucking much.  Douche nozzles abound 'round here.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #252 on: April 28, 2007, 11:35:51 am »
Isn't there a difference b/t saying it in January when it makes less of a splash & saying it the first month of the season when the org doesn't need any more problems?

It was Bagwell, IIRC, who went to the press in opposition of Oswalt after the incident in Chicago a couple years ago.  So, that was obviously during the season.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #253 on: April 28, 2007, 11:36:14 am »
Isn't there a difference b/t saying it in January when it makes less of a splash & saying it the first month of the season when the org doesn't need any more problems?

again, I do not believe all of us are listening to the change in
policy here between the noise of pence or burke...
January or First Month... who cares? Its out there now...
Let me even more bold, the organization has been fine, but
the board is sensitive to the slightest of changes... we are witnessing
one now with Lidge, El Caballo (100 mill), Garner & lineups and now
Pence.... the change is win now at all cost... this is a change from the
status quo
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #254 on: April 28, 2007, 11:40:42 am »
Lance is just acting this way because Burke is his boy.   If it was Scott or Lane or Ensberg getting sent down, his reaction wouldn't have been as harsh, imo. 

respectfully disagree; baseball is a business with ramifications'
Fat elvis does not strike me as Burke's wingman, I see it the other
way he is trying to take the limelight and draw attention away from
this reactionary position from management (either way I hope Burke
and Pence knock the freaking cover off it)

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #255 on: April 28, 2007, 11:58:47 am »
again, I do not believe all of us are listening to the change in
policy here between the noise of pence or burke...
January or First Month... who cares? Its out there now...
Let me even more bold, the organization has been fine, but
the board is sensitive to the slightest of changes... we are witnessing
one now with Lidge, El Caballo (100 mill), Garner & lineups and now
Pence.... the change is win now at all cost... this is a change from the
status quo

What change in policy? In a way, the 'win now policy' started in 1998, and it damn near worked. There was never a rebuild job, just plug a few new players in each year and hope it jells. Trade at the deadline for help. The Astros have remained competitive the entire time (except 2000, of course).

I see this current move as a wake up call to a slumbering ballclub. I hope it works.

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #256 on: April 28, 2007, 12:23:00 pm »
It is desperate.  This is nearly the exact same team that dicked around for the first 45 games of 2005.  Taveras wasn't any great shakes that year in the field, though better than Burke, and at the plate he was mediocre.  Purp left them alone.  Why not leave this team alone for 45 games+?  Especially when Purp's on record in a positive way about Burke in center?

Is it possible that the early record is more important this year (as opposed to '05) because they're trying to woo Clemens?
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #257 on: April 28, 2007, 12:46:05 pm »
Lance is just acting this way because Burke is his boy.   If it was Scott or Lane or Ensberg getting sent down, his reaction wouldn't have been as harsh, imo. 
ok someone exlplane to me please why burke is everyones boy. lance, puppy, scrap iron.. all seem to have an infintiy for this player.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #258 on: April 28, 2007, 01:31:10 pm »
Is it possible that the early record is more important this year (as opposed to '05) because they're trying to woo Clemens?

not even the remotest chance. they are sick of DQ.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #259 on: April 28, 2007, 01:32:17 pm »
Is it possible that the early record is more important this year (as opposed to '05) because they're trying to woo Clemens?

Woo him? Woo him? You mean in addition to the 3.5 million a month, no travel on off days, close proximity to Deb and the kids, and an automiatic butt wiping machine?

Well but of course, not one decision is made without running it thought the Drama Retention Affect Model Algorithm(tm), including brand of toilet paper in the club house (has to fit the machine).
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #260 on: April 28, 2007, 01:32:35 pm »
I see this current move as a wake up call to a slumbering ballclub.

i do not disagree with you much, but i do here.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #261 on: April 28, 2007, 02:05:40 pm »
i do not disagree with you much, but i do here.

Okay, you suspect it came from the top. It doesn't make much sense otherwise, I admit. So why would the Wallet do this? Certainly not AIS, or sound baseball judgment (coming from him especially). If not a wake up, is it to appease the fans? A PR move because of the losing streak and the poor home record?

I wonder if Drayton has a voice outside of management he is listening to.
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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #262 on: April 28, 2007, 02:22:31 pm »
What change in policy?
reactionary management (the list is in the thread) and is likely coming from
Drayton or upper management... Lidge is our closer no he is not... Burke is our CF
no he is not... Ensberg is our third basemen..maybe not for long etc.  Ausmus and Berkman's take is consistent: we are not hitting right now, why panic...
I'll tell you why, managment is sick of getting beat by the pirates and brewers

In a way, the 'win now policy' started in 1998, and it damn near worked.
I am talking about something different; yes managment has been focused on winning

There was never a rebuild job, just plug a few new players in each year and hope it jells. Trade at the deadline for help. The Astros have remained competitive the entire time (except 2000, of course).

That was because of our pitching (Clemens, Oswalt, Pettite) afforded the hitting the luxury to rebound and gel (slow starts and the astros)

I see this current move as a wake up call to a slumbering ballclub. I hope it works.
You may be right; I hope so (but this with Pence is a desperate move)

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Re: Purpura brings up Pence
« Reply #263 on: April 28, 2007, 05:56:01 pm »
I don't know how this will all turn out b/c I've never seen Hunter Pence play- that said I have 2 opininions on this topic:

1) whoever said Burke is a sacrifice to 3,000 is full of shit. I've heard Biggio should step aside for burke for about 4 or 5 years right now. BS.  Burke has never shown he is better than an aging and nearly decrepit biggio. Biggio is still getting the job done at 41 years old (more or less) and out performing Burke.  Burke has done absolultely nothing to supplant Bidge.  I'm sick of hearing this shit, and would have thought this place was intelligent enough not to have to deal with it.

2) I don't think, whatever happens, this will ruin Pence. I agree with Foghorn on this one. If he gets called up and shits the bed and can't ever get over it he is probably a pussy that wasn't ever going to succeed in MLB no matter what.  Luke Scott absolutley sucked when he got rushed up, but there he was in the back half of last year hitting damn near 400 for an entire half season.  Willie Mays was 0-22 or something to start his career.  Greg Maddux had an ERA closer to 6 then 4 (back when a 4 era in MLB was shitty) and he's a hall of famer. I'm not saying Pence is a hall of famer, I'm just saying that the list of guys who suck and then get it together later is a mile long, and if Hunter isn't a giant flaming gash he can bounce back if he happens to shit the bed.

3) after the first week of the year I posted that I was ready for Hunter Pence. Listening to Jim say he wasn't ready I said- OK- it isn't really Hunter Pence I'm ready for it is anyone other than Burke in CF. He was horrible. I hope that Hunter can at least play the position as a MLB calibre central gardener, which burke could not.  If he doesn't work out I'm fine with bruntlett, or lane, or a trade etc., but Chris Burke would never put on the outfield glove again if I ran the astros (and I'd trade his ass truthfully- someone could probably give something up for a 2b- maybe a flawed offensive but decent CF?)





Yep, I think this more about getting Burke out of there and shaking things up.
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