Author Topic: All Lidge. All the time.  (Read 15306 times)

Trey

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1249
    • View Profile
All Lidge. All the time.
« on: April 12, 2007, 01:29:08 pm »
I didn't see this new "article" from Heyman posted yet.  Apologies to Cabrera if it's buried somewhere

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/04/12/scoop.wednesday/1.html

Quote
The Astros haven't said they are trading him yet, but Billy Wagner, Lidge's good friend and former Astros teammate, said he suspects they will. Wagner is in regular contact with Lidge and he advises him to try to stay positive after his quick demotion (it came 1 2/3 innings into his season). Wagner thinks the downfall came not with that monster home run in the 2005 NLCS by Albert Pujols but the homer that followed on Lidge's very next pitch, the one Scott Podsednik hit in the World Series for Podsednik's only home run that year.

Let me explain something to you. Um, I am not "Mr. Lebowski". You're Mr. Lebowski. I'm the Dude. So that's what you call me. You know, that or, uh, His Dudeness, or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

ValpoCory

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 2461
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2007, 01:40:49 pm »
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/04/12/scoop.wednesday/1.html

"Wagner thinks the downfall came not with that monster home run in the 2005 NLCS by Albert Pujols but the homer that followed on Lidge's very next pitch, the one Scott Podsednik hit in the World Series for Podsednik's only home run that year."

Why let facts get in the way of cute zinger.

Pujols homered [Eckstein scored, Edmonds
scored]; Sanders was called out on strikes;

LIDGE REPLACED GALLO
(PITCHING); Uribe flied to center; Podsednik homered;


and the "Scott Podsednik hit in the World Series for Podsednik's only home run that year." is wrong too.

Division Series Game 1 Played on Tuesday, October 4, 2005 (D) at U.S. Cellular Field

BOS A    0  0  0    2  0  0    0  0  0  -   2  9  0
CHI A    5  0  1    2  0  4    0  2  x  -  14 11  1

BOX+PBP
WP: Contreras (1-0)
LP: Clement (0-1)
HR: Podsednik (1),
« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 01:42:32 pm by ValpoCory »

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2007, 01:46:56 pm »
I didn't see this new "article" from Heyman posted yet.  Apologies to Cabrera if it's buried somewhere

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/04/12/scoop.wednesday/1.html


Vultures.  Billy Wagner huh? Heyman is a tool, Wagner has been yammering about Lidge since last season, Oswalt too,

Former Astros closer Billy Wagner is ready to give Mets general manager Omar Minaya scouting reports as the National League East leaders pursue a trade for Roy Oswalt (above). Wagner also has assured Minaya that he could help straighten out slumping closer Brad Lidge.“I told Omar, just put (Lidge) out there with me,” Wagner, the Mets’ closer, said via phone Monday morning. “I’ll get him straightened out.”

“What would it mean if we got Roy Oswalt?” Wagner said. “It would be called championship. Put it on the board. I don’t even think Omar would have to ask me about Roy. If he asked me about Roy, I’d tell him, ‘He’s a gamer, goes out there, takes the ball and is ready to play to win.’ That’s what I’d tell him. It’s all about pitching. It’s all about pitching.”
http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/?p=6904

Astroholic

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3807
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2007, 01:51:37 pm »
"... It’s all about pitching. It’s all about pitching.”


This is funny.  Apperently it is also about running your mouth.  I can hear BW on the mound now "Okay Brad, first pitch I would throw is a fast ball, follow that up with a fastball, then another fastball".

juliogotay

  • Pope
  • Posts: 8738
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2007, 01:57:06 pm »
the Astros frustrations with Lidge may be centered around the fact that his mechanics don't seem to have changed from last year despite having all spring to work on them. That's not to diminish the poor results but if he was at least taking to the coaching maybe we would have gotten a longer leash?

chuck

  • Contributor
  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 12495
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2007, 02:12:11 pm »
WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD THE ASTROS TRADE THE BEST PITCHER IN THE NL?
Y todo lo que sube baja
pregúntale a Pedro Navaja

homer

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6509
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2007, 02:13:32 pm »

This is funny.  Apperently it is also about running your mouth.  I can hear BW on the mound now "Okay Brad, first pitch I would throw is a fast ball, follow that up with a fastball, then another fastball".


"Biggio? Fastball, in. Definitely. Old man could never catch up with the heat."
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

BudGirl

  • Contributor
  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 17776
  • Brad Ausmus' Slave
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2007, 02:13:50 pm »
WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD THE ASTROS TRADE THE BEST PITCHER IN THE NL?

Why not?  They traded the Best Pitcher in the NL once before when they traded Wagner.
''I just did an interview with someone I like more than you. I used a lot of big words on him. I don't have anything left for you.'' --Brad Ausmus

Well behaved women rarely make history.

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2007, 02:23:21 pm »
the Astros frustrations with Lidge may be centered around the fact that his mechanics don't seem to have changed from last year despite having all spring to work on them. That's not to diminish the poor results but if he was at least taking to the coaching maybe we would have gotten a longer leash?

Lidge's mechanics were never good, including 05.  That's one of the reasons he was injured so much.  He's had special talks with Ryan, Clemens, Wallace, Garner, last year Hickey, Jose de Jesus Ortiz and Dan Wheeler, by last count.

Astroholic

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3807
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2007, 02:30:55 pm »
Lidge's mechanics were never good, including 05.  That's one of the reasons he was injured so much.  He's had special talks with Ryan, Clemens, Wallace, Garner, last year Hickey, Jose de Jesus Ortiz and Dan Wheeler, by last count.

But dontya see, wags could fix him.

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2007, 02:31:19 pm »
WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD THE ASTROS TRADE THE BEST PITCHER IN THE NL?

That was last year.  When Oswalt was in a big pout because Garner didn't put him on the All-Star team, then the Astros waved him at the Mets, the Orioles, the Red Sox, and the Rangers hoping to trade him.  Roy got so mad he vowed to become a free agent at the end of 06.  That's what Jose de Jesus Ortiz told us.  Also, when the Mets signed Oswalt, Minaya sent Jose a Build a Bear.  

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2007, 02:32:48 pm »
Lidge's mechanics were never good, including 05.  That's one of the reasons he was injured so much.  He's had special talks with Ryan, Clemens, Wallace, Garner, last year Hickey, Jose de Jesus Ortiz and Dan Wheeler, by last count.

yeah, but last year they were so bad that even i could see it.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2007, 02:42:11 pm »
His lack of maintaining his mechanics may be because he is very uncomfortable pitching any other way.  By uncomfortable, I mean the guy is hurting somehow if he throws correctly.  He has to recoil as much as he does to keep from screaming "ouchy" every pitch, or so I suspect without any reason or fact to back me up on that.

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2007, 02:47:00 pm »
His lack of maintaining his mechanics may be because he is very uncomfortable pitching any other way.  By uncomfortable, I mean the guy is hurting somehow if he throws correctly.  He has to recoil as much as he does to keep from screaming "ouchy" every pitch, or so I suspect without any reason or fact to back me up on that.

he has always recoiled. i do not think he has always flown open as much as he started doing last year. Lakey told me several years ago that he was a major injury waiting to happen.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

chuck

  • Contributor
  • Double Super Secret Pope
  • Posts: 12495
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2007, 03:11:36 pm »
That was last year.  When Oswalt was in a big pout because Garner didn't put him on the All-Star team, then the Astros waved him at the Mets, the Orioles, the Red Sox, and the Rangers hoping to trade him.  Roy got so mad he vowed to become a free agent at the end of 06.  That's what Jose de Jesus Ortiz told us.  Also, when the Mets signed Oswalt, Minaya sent Jose a Build a Bear. 

I'm sure you have not forgotten that while Chuy was definitely on the train, Pinwheel was up front shoveling coal.

If it's really that easy to transform an imaginary world into reality then let's start daydreaming about, oh, I don't know, Miguel Cabrera, and next thing you know Pinwheel will get Beinfest on the horn and get this thing done.
Y todo lo que sube baja
pregúntale a Pedro Navaja

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2007, 03:29:55 pm »
I'm sure you have not forgotten that while Chuy was definitely on the train, Pinwheel was up front shoveling coal.

If it's really that easy to transform an imaginary world into reality then let's start daydreaming about, oh, I don't know, Miguel Cabrera, and next thing you know Pinwheel will get Beinfest on the horn and get this thing done.

In the present circumstance, now that Billy Wagner has lent his expert opinion on whether Lidge will be traded, Pinwheel has wheeled in none other oracle than Keith Law.  Keith Law "the idiot", Keith Law.

JGrave

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 2021
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2007, 03:32:23 pm »
Garner is on 790 right now and he's saying that Lidge is throwing as well as he ever has since Garner's been here.  He feels like Lidge doesn't have a "scheme" when he is on the mound.  He has four pitches now and he hasn't come up with a good scheme to get hitters out.  He also thinks Lidge's struggles are mostly due to just some bad karma and he needs to work through it with lots of innings and he'll be fine.  

Garner doesn't feel like his outfield defense has hurt them at all.
DS Andy Wainwright: You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city.
DS Andy Cartwright: Everyone and their mums is packin' round here!
Nicholas Angel: Like who?
DS Andy Wainwright: Farmers.
Nicholas Angel: Who else?
DS Andy Cartwright: Farmers' mums.

MusicMan

  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 25931
  • Thanks for 2015
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2007, 03:35:06 pm »
Garner doesn't feel like his outfield defense has hurt them at all.

Coachspeak, pure and simple.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2007, 03:36:12 pm »
Garner is on 790 right now and he's saying that Lidge is throwing as well as he ever has since Garner's been here.  He feels like Lidge doesn't have a "scheme" when he is on the mound.  He has four pitches now and he hasn't come up with a good scheme to get hitters out.  He also thinks Lidge's struggles are mostly due to just some bad karma and he needs to work through it with lots of innings and he'll be fine.  

Garner doesn't feel like his outfield defense has hurt them at all.

He's blowing smoke on the defense thing.  They lost a whole game almost entirely because of centerfield defense.  I wonder where Brad is concerning defining a scheme for Lidge?

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2007, 03:46:12 pm »
He's blowing smoke on the defense thing.  They lost a whole game almost entirely because of centerfield defense.  I wonder where Brad is concerning defining a scheme for Lidge?

he's blowing smoke on it all.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

JGrave

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 2021
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2007, 03:47:58 pm »
He's blowing smoke on the defense thing.  They lost a whole game almost entirely because of centerfield defense.  I wonder where Brad is concerning defining a scheme for Lidge?

He said there was only one ball that Burke maybe should've caught for sure. 
DS Andy Wainwright: You do know there are more guns in the country than there are in the city.
DS Andy Cartwright: Everyone and their mums is packin' round here!
Nicholas Angel: Like who?
DS Andy Wainwright: Farmers.
Nicholas Angel: Who else?
DS Andy Cartwright: Farmers' mums.

Bench

  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 16476
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2007, 03:49:01 pm »
Garner is on 790 right now and he's saying that Lidge is throwing as well as he ever has since Garner's been here.  He feels like Lidge doesn't have a "scheme" when he is on the mound.  He has four pitches now and he hasn't come up with a good scheme to get hitters out.  He also thinks Lidge's struggles are mostly due to just some bad karma and he needs to work through it with lots of innings and he'll be fine.  

Garner doesn't feel like his outfield defense has hurt them at all.

I love how he keeps pounding the bad karma line. What the hell did Brad do that would bring on all this bad karma?
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2007, 03:51:11 pm »
In the present circumstance, now that Billy Wagner has lent his expert opinion on whether Lidge will be traded, Pinwheel has wheeled in none other oracle than Keith Law.  Keith Law "the idiot", Keith Law.

Keith Law?  Wow!

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2007, 03:51:29 pm »
I love how he keeps pounding the bad karma line. What the hell did Brad do that would bring on all this bad karma?

he went to Notre Dame.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

Bench

  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 16476
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #24 on: April 12, 2007, 03:55:08 pm »
he went to Notre Dame.

Sounds right to me.
"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

Fredia

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6896
  • Looking forward
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #25 on: April 12, 2007, 03:55:28 pm »
I didn't see this new "article" from Heyman posted yet.  Apologies to Cabrera if it's buried somewhere

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/04/12/scoop.wednesday/1.html
The Astros haven't said they are trading him yet, but Billy Wagner, Lidge's good friend and former Astros teammate, said he suspects they will. Wagner is in regular contact with Lidge and he advises him to try to stay positive after his quick demotion (it came 1 2/3 innings into his season). Wagner thinks the downfall came not with that monster home run in the 2005 NLCS by Albert Pujols but the homer that followed on Lidge's very next pitch, the one Scott Podsednik hit in the World Series for Podsednik's only home run that year.



interesting that wagner and lidge are good friends. wagners brain is not connected to his mouth and at this point lidges brain is not connected  to his arm
forever is composed entirely of nows

MusicMan

  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 25931
  • Thanks for 2015
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2007, 03:56:23 pm »
Well, at least we know Pinwheel is a lurker:

"seem to be the byproduct of a guy who doesn't trust his stuff"
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2007, 04:15:37 pm »
He said there was only one ball that Burke maybe should've caught for sure. 

I was standing right above him, I counted 3.  The one "Taveras caught", the one popped out of his glove, and the 2nd RBI double that he stared at for a couple seconds before running, WHILE LOOKING.  And his footwork is bad.

utastro

  • Prime Time Player
  • Posts: 888
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2007, 04:46:02 pm »
at this point lidges brain is not connected  to his arm

I think you have it backwards.  Lidge is probably thinking too much (i.e. brain telling arm where to go).  Instead of just throwing the damn ball.  As for scheme, isn't that also up to the catcher.  Is Garner dissing on Ausmus?
Oh God, I wish I was a loofah!

homer

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6509
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2007, 05:17:21 pm »
Quote
and the 2nd RBI double that he stared at for a couple seconds before running, WHILE LOOKING.

which one was this?

and are we only talking about one game? wasn't there some other catch(es) that he shoulda made dealing with Bidge?
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2007, 07:25:49 pm »
which one was this?

and are we only talking about one game? wasn't there some other catch(es) that he shoulda made dealing with Bidge?

This was the Wed. game.  The first run in the 2nd inning.  Nady hit a gapper low, hard to get to.  But Bautista followed with another fly to the gap.  However, this one had more loft and was more towards center.  Burke got a bad jump and was running with his head turned towards the ball and bobbing all over.  He got close.   I remember a couple where he didnt come in fast enough but I cant say on those.  On Wed. I was right above center and had an excellent view of the routes he took on fly balls that sent him back.

Limey

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 32079
  • Tally Ho!
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2007, 07:30:22 pm »
I told Omar, just put (Lidge) out there with me,” Wagner, the Mets’ closer, said via phone Monday morning. “I’ll get him straightened out.”

Yep.  Just like your FB, Billy!  Ka-Pow!
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

Limey

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 32079
  • Tally Ho!
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2007, 07:32:02 pm »
"Biggio? Fastball, in. Definitely. Old man could never catch up with the heat."

Beautiful.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

The Spleen

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1175
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2007, 07:35:25 pm »
He's saying that Lidge is throwing as well as he ever has since Garner's been here...  Garner doesn't feel like his outfield defense has hurt them at all.

Remember kids, Bad Habit Bear says, "Paint chips are for eating... not for smoking!"
When the Clark is dead, Spack will eat his spleen. Before he dies, Spack will put his posts under the knife so the Clark will see his threads wiped out forever...

Mr. Happy

  • Fantasy Team Owner
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 23232
  • It's a beautiful day; let's play two
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2007, 09:33:07 am »
Remember kids, Bad Habit Bear says, "Paint chips are for eating... not for smoking!"

Always good to see the Spleen on the board. Funny dude.
People who cannot recognize a palpable absurdity are very much in the way of civilization. Agnes Rupellier

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

S.P. Rodriguez

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 2932
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2007, 10:03:34 am »
According to Ringolsby:


Purpura, whose loyalty to Lidge stems from when Purpura ran the Astros farm system, should do his team and Lidge a favor and give Lidge a chance to go somewhere else and start over. Lidge is a quality person with a quality arm who deserves better than what is happening in Houston.


I'm not quite sure how it does Houston any "favor" to trade a player while his value may be weaker than it would otherwise be, but all I took from Ringolsby's take is "poor wittle Widgy-poo.  Your Colorado fans would treat you better."   

This boo-bird shit just feeds on itself.  First the writers encourage discontent with a player, then they encourage giving a player "new start" ... ehem.... for the players benefit.   
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/sports_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_83_5482233,00.html
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man. "

-Mark Twain

Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2007, 10:08:30 am »
According to Ringolsby:


Purpura, whose loyalty to Lidge stems from when Purpura ran the Astros farm system, should do his team and Lidge a favor and give Lidge a chance to go somewhere else and start over. Lidge is a quality person with a quality arm who deserves better than what is happening in Houston.


I'm not quite sure how it does Houston any "favor" to trade a player while his value may be weaker than it would otherwise be, but all I took from Ringolsby's take is "poor wittle Widgy-poo.  Your Colorado fans would treat you better."   

This boo-bird shit just feeds on itself.  First the writers encourage discontent with a player, then they encourage giving a player "new start" ... ehem.... for the players benefit.   
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/sports_columnists/article/0,1299,DRMN_83_5482233,00.html

I heard Lidge interviewed on 790 this morning and if any of these experts on human pyschology would just pick up a phone and talk to the man, they'd see the man has his head screwed on right and will be okay once he figures out his mechanics.

"If we win, that is all that matters... we'll all be happy!  I don't care if I pitch the sixth or the ninth to get us there, so long as we win, that is what is important."

Yeah, he sounds like a man in dire need of being shipped out because he's falling apart.

S.P. Rodriguez

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 2932
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2007, 10:13:41 am »
I heard Lidge interviewed on 790 this morning and if any of these experts on human pyschology would just pick up a phone and talk to the man, they'd see the man has his head screwed on right and will be okay once he figures out his mechanics.

"If we win, that is all that matters... we'll all be happy!  I don't care if I pitch the sixth or the ninth to get us there, so long as we win, that is what is important."

Yeah, he sounds like a man in dire need of being shipped out because he's falling apart.

And he can thank the best friend an Astro could ever have (a.k.a. Jose De Jesus Ortiz) for the need to even do that interview.  Yet another example of a reasonable statement being parsed into stupidity.  Thank you JdeJO.   I hope Lidge has learned his lesson and shuts his yap from now on...
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man. "

-Mark Twain

utastro

  • Prime Time Player
  • Posts: 888
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2007, 10:14:40 am »
I heard Lidge interviewed on 790 this morning and if any of these experts on human pyschology would just pick up a phone and talk to the man, they'd see the man has his head screwed on right and will be okay once he figures out his mechanics.

"If we win, that is all that matters... we'll all be happy!  I don't care if I pitch the sixth or the ninth to get us there, so long as we win, that is what is important."

Yeah, he sounds like a man in dire need of being shipped out because he's falling apart.

It sounds like he is still suffering from the Pujols bomb.
Oh God, I wish I was a loofah!

Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2007, 10:27:58 am »
When I heard the interview, he was candid about it but very, very, very reasonable and understanding of the job Phil Garner has to do to win ballgames.  He knows he needs to work on some things and Garner told him what he'd like to see from him during this *period* of time.

One thing that Lidge had to continue to correct the bozo twins (Davies and Dukes) was on this little flaw of fact that they kept bringing up:

(Dukes): "Now that you're no longer the closer..."
(Lidge): "Ah, here is the thing, people keep saying this as if it is permanent and it is not..."

later....

(Davies): "Will you ask for a trade now that you're not the closer..."
(Lidge): "Again, who said that this was a permanent thing?  Phil and I certainly never talked about a permanent demotion and he's told everyone the same thing, yet.... I mean, it's not that way at all..."

later...
(Davies): "If Tim Purpura were to come to you and say "I've got a trade in the works and I think it can help you get back to being a closer for someone else and help out team too", would you agree to that deal?"
(Lidge): "Ah, that is not the way it works.  First of all, I want to be a Houston Astro for the rest of my career.  I love pitching in Houston.  Next, I can't make decisions on my career until another two years when I'm a free agent.  Until then, the Houston Astros don't need my permission and I would understand if they decide they're doing something for the betterment of the team.  I would never go demand a trade if that is what you're asking.  And lastly, again, I did not lose the closer job per se, it's only a temporary adjustment to get some work to do some things that Garner wants to see from me *before* he hands me back the job."
(Davies): "But what if Wheeler is doing the job well and you're doing what Garner asked of you, do you still get the job back?"
(Lidge): "As long as we are winning... (see previous statement).  Dan Wheeler is a capable guy and has proven he can do the job for the last two years.  If we're winning, I'm not going to complain."

later...
(Dukes): "People claim that you're such a nice guy, that is what makes you a bad choice for closer..."
(Lidge): "People weren't complaining about me being nice when I was doing the job well, why should they think that is the problem now?"
(Duke): "*chuckle, chuckle* *snort*... riiiight"
(Lidge): "It's about making some adjustments, not about changing my character."

Astroholic

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3807
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2007, 10:32:03 am »
Man, those dudes are relentless to say the least.  Another example of the fine reporters we have here in this great city.

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2007, 10:39:27 am »
Man, those dudes are relentless to say the least.  Another example of the fine reporters we have here in this great city.

It is a near certainty that in in the next couple days one of these pukes will begin a sentence "should Lidge demand a trade..."  The Footer article of 4/9 includes, if not the actual wording, then the intent and tone of this interview.  Yet this all seems new to them.  Ortiz wrote his article with no mention of Lidge's encouragement of Wheeler.  Apparently, the local media completely ignores the information on the team's website. 

Bench

  • Illuminati
  • Posts: 16476
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2007, 10:44:04 am »
Apparently, the local media completely ignores the information on the team's website. 

I think that's par for the course in most cities. The team's Web site is viewed as press releases and public relations pieces, and the media's job is too attack the source and get "the scoop."

The difference here is that Footer is simply a much better journalist than the members of the "independant media."

"Holy shit, Mozart. Get me off this fucking thing."

Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2007, 10:48:25 am »
It is a near certainty that in in the next couple days one of these pukes will begin a sentence "should Lidge demand a trade..."  The Footer article of 4/9 includes, if not the actual wording, then the intent and tone of this interview.  Yet this all seems new to them.  Ortiz wrote his article with no mention of Lidge's encouragement of Wheeler.  Apparently, the local media completely ignores the information on the team's website. 

Lidge sounded as if he is perplexed as to why there is an uproar in his favor and also against him.  He kept repeating several things, but primarily his confusion why folks can't seem to grasp the not so hidden agenda here by Phil Garner.

He's trying to get *his* closer to get his stuff straightened out.  But some are reacting as if the sky is falling and Brad Lidge is a malcontent on the bench.

That is not the Brad Lidge I heard interviewed this morning.  In fact, the "mr. nice guy" part of the interview only came up at the end because the twin twits thought that they needed to let him know that he was being very nice about the whole deal.  Sarcastically, Davies suggested that perhaps it would be better for Brad Lidge to cuss and spit, be mean to media guys and generally be an asshole from now on to satisfy everyone that he's human afterall.  Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps, perhaps, the problem lay at the feet of media people who just can't understand very simple things like a manager helping his star player out a little, instead they have to try and find the malcontent angle to play it up?

Maybe it's the media's problem and not Brad Lidge.

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2007, 10:50:25 am »
And he can thank the best friend an Astro could ever have (a.k.a. Jose De Jesus Ortiz) for the need to even do that interview.  Yet another example of a reasonable statement being parsed into stupidity.  Thank you JdeJO.   I hope Lidge has learned his lesson and shuts his yap from now on...

Lidge has said all the right things and, from past experience, I think he means every word of it.  Yes he is upset, probably more with himself.  The main thing is though he understands what they are doing and is encouraging his teammates to pick up the slack.  

(I will pause here to preemptively address the concerns of those who are certain that everything said to the media is a self serving lie and that everyone does everything for money.  That is why Waldo has restored the "ignore" feature)

Lidge has been praised numerous times for being available, answering every question, and standing at his locker until every reporter has obtained every answer they want.  The problem here is that the reporters are editing his answers to create a story for the fans.   The script is familar.


Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #45 on: April 13, 2007, 10:53:07 am »
Yes he is upset, probably more with himself.

Basically the gist of what he said when asked if he was upset at this whole affair.  He repeated "motivation" as the key here and not "upset".

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #46 on: April 13, 2007, 10:59:34 am »
I think that's par for the course in most cities. The team's Web site is viewed as press releases and public relations pieces, and the media's job is too attack the source and get "the scoop."

The difference here is that Footer is simply a much better journalist than the members of the "independant media."



She kicks their whiny asses is what she does.  Every damn one of them.  It is pathetic how much more useful her articles are when trying to figure out what and why the team does what they do. 

S.P. Rodriguez

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 2932
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #47 on: April 13, 2007, 11:04:17 am »
agreed.  He said something, that in it's entirity, is completely reasonable and professional.  When that statements is then parsed, as JdJO did, into something that conveys anger and frustration, he has to question the value of being so "available".  That is a loss to us as fans. 

Also, the "Garner is an idiot" bandwagon has grown more vocal.  Keith Law called him a bad manager for this decision, stating Lidge is not "THE" problem.  Well duh!  He had 2 outings in 8 games.  That is "THE" problem.  And the reason he's only had 2 outings is because you save your closer for save situations.  If you have a closer who's trying to work out some bad habits, he needs regular, real game work.  So get him that work now, while the team it's early, giving valuable work to your next guy in line for closer (critical for later in the season or critical series when you can't use your closer every game) and get your dominant closer back on track with more regular work. 

In essence, what the sports media have done is taken both sides of the argument.  First, it's the "He's done, stick a fork in him" movement.  Then, following a perceived demotion, it's "the manager is an idiot" and "the player deserves better, preferrably with a new team at a discount to the other team".  I should feel indifferent to this easily anticipated bullshit.  Alas, while I expected this, I can't seem to ignore it.
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man. "

-Mark Twain

Lefty

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3539
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #48 on: April 13, 2007, 11:18:17 am »
That is "THE" problem.

It is mind-boggling that this shit is so incomprehensible to the "professional" media.
You may ask yourself, "How do I work this?"

homer

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6509
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2007, 11:28:27 am »
Quote
Yes he is upset, probably more with himself.

This is what I took from his interview (audio is on JdJO's blog).
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2007, 11:38:07 am »
...Alas, while I expected this, I can't seem to ignore it.

And you shouldn't.  This kind of thing has a real impact on the team we get.  These fans who think that Lidge is being disruptive and is "pissed off" about being demoted, and has the "Pujols Madness" are going to cause trouble.  Whether it is booing at the game, calling into radio shows or typing dumb stuff on blogs, they are going to create a situation that may make Drayton Mclane uncomfortable with having Lidge on his team.  It has happened before.

Lidge needs to adjust.   He may have just realized that he can't be the same pitcher he was before because the league has figured out that version.   He has to become something new.  And maybe that new thing isnt one of the top closers in the majors.   That seems to be a more complicated process than the media wants to explain and the fans want to sit still for.

Dobro

  • Prime Time Player
  • Posts: 647
  • Triple Pope
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2007, 11:43:51 am »
  He has to become something new.
Like what? A starter? He's being paid over $5M/yr.

Let him go rediscover himself on a team that can afford a $5M middle reliever.
Lighten up, Francis.

Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2007, 11:46:48 am »
...they are going to create a situation that may make Drayton Mclane uncomfortable with having Lidge on his team.  It has happened before.

See: Powell, Jay

I still remember the day Kent Bottenfield went off on fans booing Jay Powell as he walked off the field after a failed attempt at a save.  Bottenfield was standing on the dugout steps when the boo birds at Enron Field went off on Jay-bird.  He quickly turned around and yelled at the fans nearest to his proxmity to shut up.

He later explained to the media that he was just fed up with the fans who couldn't see that Powell had actually pitched his arse off and did his job... Biggio and Lugo's defense behind him were the cause of the two runs that scored that cost the team the game.

Fans had it in for Jay Powell and any excuse would do at that point.

Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #53 on: April 13, 2007, 11:48:14 am »
Like what? A starter? He's being paid over $5M/yr.

Let him go rediscover himself on a team that can afford a $5M middle reliever.

Are the Astros simply not allowed to have patience and try to use this method to get Lidge straightened out.  Is it against some sacred rite to at least try?  I see the problem here more in line with fan short attention span and expectation and the media fanning that emotion that is a really easy hot button to push.

It goes well with our fast food mentality/society.  We simply have no patience and in a way, baseball suffers from it because the fans are just not in tune with the game and how it is played.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 11:49:53 am by Noe in Austin »

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #54 on: April 13, 2007, 11:54:24 am »
Are the Astros simply not allowed to have patience and try to use this method to get Lidge straightened out.  Is it against some sacred rite to at least try?  I see the problem here more in line with fan short attention span and expectation and the media fanning that emotion that is a really easy hot button to push.

It goes well with our fast food mentality/society.  We simply have no patience and in a way, baseball suffers from it because the fans are just not in tune with the game and how it is played.

Houston has a football mentality.   Booing does not make you a knowlegable or even involved fan.  Certainly giving up on Lidge is an option.  Easiest thing in the world, more time to consider your football draft choices.  And  Purpura can just make a call to the Closer Academy and have them send one over in the next delivery.  (ETA) Your thoughts on learning the value, and rarity, of understanding failure is also appropriate in this context.

matadorph

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3576
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #55 on: April 13, 2007, 11:55:01 am »
I think that's par for the course in most cities. The team's Web site is viewed as press releases and public relations pieces, and the media's job is too attack the source and get "the scoop."

The difference here is that Footer is simply a much better journalist than the members of the "independant media."



Alyson Footer is the Lara Logan of baseball beat reporters.

Dobro

  • Prime Time Player
  • Posts: 647
  • Triple Pope
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #56 on: April 13, 2007, 11:56:53 am »
Are the Astros simply not allowed to have patience...

The Astros have been more than patient with Lidge. 

The point is that even if he does turn into a serviceable middle reliever, the Astros do not need a $5M middle reliever.
Lighten up, Francis.

MusicMan

  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 25931
  • Thanks for 2015
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2007, 12:05:36 pm »
The Astros have been more than patient with Lidge. 

The point is that even if he does turn into a serviceable middle reliever, the Astros do not need a $5M middle reliever.

No, the point is to turn him back into a dominant closer.  If they thought he'd just be a "serviceable middle reliever", they would have dealt him in the offseason when the market for such men was going nuts.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2007, 12:06:24 pm »
The Astros have been more than patient with Lidge. 

The point is that even if he does turn into a serviceable middle reliever, the Astros do not need a $5M middle reliever.

He is still Houston's closer, which is what is perplexing to me that is not understood here.  He is being given a chance to work more through middle relief to work on a few items that frankly he would not be allowed to do in game situations as a closer.

If he is successful at the things he is being asked to do (and I frankly don't know what that is but Garner sure does because he told Lidge what he wants to see), he'll be put back without hestitation.

This whole Lidge affair is so muddy in misinformation it is laughable.

das

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3465
    • View Profile
    • Faith Home Ministries
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2007, 12:07:09 pm »
And he can thank the best friend an Astro could ever have (a.k.a. Jose De Jesus Ortiz) for the need to even do that interview.  Yet another example of a reasonable statement being parsed into stupidity.  Thank you JdeJO.   I hope Lidge has learned his lesson and shuts his yap from now on...
Even the press (well, pseudo-press) is calling out the Chronicle for their spurrious angle on this story.
http://www.bpsports.net/bpcolumn.asp?ID=597
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #60 on: April 13, 2007, 12:08:22 pm »
Houston has a football mentality.   Booing does not make you a knowlegable or even involved fan.  Certainly giving up on Lidge is an option.  Easiest thing in the world, more time to consider your football draft choices.  And  Purpura can just make a call to the Closer Academy and have them send one over in the next delivery.  (ETA) Your thoughts on learning the value, and rarity, of understanding failure is also appropriate in this context.

Proven by the quick assessment of Brad Lidge by many so-called fans when they said with no hestitation that Brad Lidge is the next David Carr.

You have to think that this is quite distrubing coming from so-called baseball fans.

Dobro

  • Prime Time Player
  • Posts: 647
  • Triple Pope
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #61 on: April 13, 2007, 12:18:22 pm »
He is still Houston's closer, which is what is perplexing to me that is not understood here. 

This quote from Garner does not sound to me like Lidge is Houston's closer:

"Brad is not going to close as a general rule. There might be an occasion when I'll close back with Brad."

Noe, there is not some vast media/fan conspiracy against Brad Lidge.  He has not been getting the job done for a long time.  That's really the bottom line.


Lighten up, Francis.

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #62 on: April 13, 2007, 12:23:56 pm »
This quote from Garner does not sound to me like Lidge is Houston's closer:

"Brad is not going to close as a general rule. There might be an occasion when I'll close back with Brad."

Noe, there is not some vast media/fan conspiracy against Brad Lidge.  He has not been getting the job done for a long time.  That's really the bottom line.


i can't believe it took you this long to post your latest on ole Brad.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2007, 12:27:08 pm »
This quote from Garner does not sound to me like Lidge is Houston's closer:

"Brad is not going to close as a general rule. There might be an occasion when I'll close back with Brad."

Okay, so when Garner says this:

“It's not like I'm not going to pitch him in any ballgames. I'm going to pitch him more. I would like to get him in these meaningful situations in the middle of ballgames, and he'll tell me, he'll show me, when he's ready to get back to his rightful spot."

(So tell me, what does "rightful spot" mean if not closer.   You, yourself said 5 million dollars does not a middle reliever make... but a closer?  Hmmmm, yeah, okay. So is Garner lying here Dobro?)

"My hope is that I can get him in four out of eight days, every other day, two or three days in a row, and not have extended outings, those kinds of things," Garner says. "I think he can get back on track."

(What does "back on track" mean?  Be a serviceable middle reliever?  Oh come on!)

Quote
Noe, there is not some vast media/fan conspiracy against Brad Lidge.  He has not been getting the job done for a long time.  That's really the bottom line.

He has done reasonably well the last two years, but he has not been dominant nor consistent as a closer.  You make it sound as if he's a bottom feeder closer and he's not.  The Astros want him to work on some things in meaningful games in order to get his pitches where they need to be.  Cool.  That is vastly different than this scenario of Pujols Madness, Lidge Sucks, The Sky is Falling crap I keep reading.

If Lidge is done, it is because he physically cannot handle the position any more.  Ironically, everyone that has seen him pitch says his stuff is actually very good.  So work may be all he needs to straighten his stuff out.

And they're giving it to him.  Be patient.

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #64 on: April 13, 2007, 12:31:44 pm »
Even the press (well, pseudo-press) is calling out the Chronicle for their spurrious angle on this story.
http://www.bpsports.net/bpcolumn.asp?ID=597

He only had the Chron angle on yesterday.  I sent him an email directing him towards the Footer version. 

Dobro

  • Prime Time Player
  • Posts: 647
  • Triple Pope
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2007, 12:33:50 pm »
Okay, so when Garner says this:

“It's not like I'm not going to pitch him in any ballgames. I'm going to pitch him more. I would like to get him in these meaningful situations in the middle of ballgames, and he'll tell me, he'll show me, when he's ready to get back to his rightful spot."

(So tell me, what does "rightful spot" mean if not closer.   You, yourself said 5 million dollars does not a middle reliever make... but a closer?  Hmmmm, yeah, okay. So is Garner lying here Dobro?)

"My hope is that I can get him in four out of eight days, every other day, two or three days in a row, and not have extended outings, those kinds of things," Garner says. "I think he can get back on track."

(What does "back on track" mean?  Be a serviceable middle reliever?  Oh come on!)

Noe, those quotes indicate that Garner is trying to fix a pitcher who was once his closer, with hopes that he can be the closer again one day.  He is not the Astros closer.  I don't know how much more clear Garner could make it.
Lighten up, Francis.

homer

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6509
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2007, 12:34:37 pm »
He only had the Chron angle on yesterday.  I sent him an email directing him towards the Footer version. 

ubiquitous
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2007, 12:36:39 pm »
ubiquitous

It was cool that he changed it.  I need to send him another email congratulating him on his good judgement.

das

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3465
    • View Profile
    • Faith Home Ministries
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #68 on: April 13, 2007, 12:42:11 pm »
He only had the Chron angle on yesterday.  I sent him an email directing him towards the Footer version. 
And the universe of online media is better for it that you did / do.  We've had you all to ourselves long enough, now you must unleash your mighty corrective powers on the unsuspecting online media...

I met Lockheed Martin's corporate legal department librarian yesterday.  Though I've never met you, I'd swear he is your doppleganger.  I almost said, "Pravata?" after hearing him talk for a couple of minutes.
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #69 on: April 13, 2007, 12:44:04 pm »
Noe, those quotes indicate that Garner is trying to fix a pitcher who was once his closer, with hopes that he can be the closer again one day.  He is not the Astros closer.  I don't know how much more clear Garner could make it.

According to Lidge, it is very clear what is happening and it is not a permanent thing and never was meant to be.  I don't know how much more clearer it can be to you as well.

If I move my cleanup man out of that spot for awhile to get him more ABs to work his way back into the lineup, it doesn't mean he is no longer my cleanup man.  Come on, you know better than that, you're a former player so this isn't anything new to you.  He is my cleanup man who currently is batting second to get him the ABs needed.

See: McGwire, Mark

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #70 on: April 13, 2007, 12:47:10 pm »
And the universe of online media is better for it that you did / do.  We've had you all to ourselves long enough, now you must unleash your mighty corrective powers on the unsuspecting online media...

I met Lockheed Martin's corporate legal department librarian yesterday.  Though I've never met you, I'd swear he is your doppleganger.  I almost said, "Pravata?" after hearing him talk for a couple of minutes.

For the most part, librarians are born, not made.  It's not something someone who had a choice would choose.  I think the Chron blogs are catching on to me though.  (eta) Hang on! I just realized the implications of the first part of that! Oh no, it's not that easy buster.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 12:49:06 pm by pravata »

Lefty

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3539
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #71 on: April 13, 2007, 01:06:11 pm »
Thought you'd like this prav (non-bb):

Wonder why so many of the news articles you read, or steam over, are lacking essential information or perspective? Wonder no longer. Knowledge and experience of the subject is only a “plus.”

http://www.democracy-project.com/archives/003237.html
You may ask yourself, "How do I work this?"

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #72 on: April 13, 2007, 01:09:35 pm »
Thought you'd like this prav (non-bb):

Wonder why so many of the news articles you read, or steam over, are lacking essential information or perspective? Wonder no longer. Knowledge and experience of the subject is only a “plus.”

http://www.democracy-project.com/archives/003237.html

One of the trends I'm studying right now is called the "cult of the amateur".

Fredia

  • Pope
  • Posts: 6896
  • Looking forward
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #73 on: April 13, 2007, 01:12:30 pm »
Houston has a football mentality.   Booing does not make you a knowlegable or even involved fan.  Certainly giving up on Lidge is an option.  Easiest thing in the world, more time to consider your football draft choices.  And  Purpura can just make a call to the Closer Academy and have them send one over in the next delivery.  (ETA) Your thoughts on learning the value, and rarity, of understanding failure is also appropriate in this context.
i guess your explaniaton for football mentality is as good as any .. there used to be games where there was almost silecne from the fans. bad or good at least they are making some noise now.
forever is composed entirely of nows

HudsonHawk

  • Administrator
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 42689
  • Gentleman About Town
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #74 on: April 13, 2007, 01:12:55 pm »
The Astros have been more than patient with Lidge. 

The point is that even if he does turn into a serviceable middle reliever, the Astros do not need a $5M middle reliever.


What difference does his salary make?
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

Amy

  • Should Have Quit 500 Posts Ago
  • Posts: 1579
  • #1 Bidge Fan
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #75 on: April 13, 2007, 01:46:45 pm »
Well, I was trying to stay away from pointless arguments about Lidge, but this thread seems to have a lot of pretty intelligent discussion.

I tend to think Lidge's problem is mostly with his mechanics.  I heard an interview Brad Ausmus did a couple of days ago on ESPN Radio where he said that Lidge's slider has developed a hump in it and that hitters are recognizing it now and laying off of it.  That sounds like as good an explanation as any other and I have a lot of respect for Ausmus.

As for this demotion, I wonder if Gar wasn't a little hasty with it.  But I did like his idea of getting Lidge more regular work.  However, I am puzzled that he didn't use Lidge in either of the games in Chicago.  I was especially befuddled by the way Gar kept getting Lidge up in the pen on Tuesday, but then never used him, but supposedly was going to go to him in the 9th if Wheeler failed.  Color me confused.

As for Lidge's attitude, I don't believe there is any problem there.  I think Ortiz was looking to create controversy where none existed, which is nothing unusual.  I am highly skeptical of anything printed in the Chron.  Thank god for Alyson Footer handing those tools their asses on a daily basis.

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #76 on: April 13, 2007, 01:52:11 pm »


I tend to think Lidge's problem is mostly with his mechanics.  I heard an interview Brad Ausmus did a couple of days ago on ESPN Radio where he said that Lidge's slider has developed a hump in it and that hitters are recognizing it now and laying off of it.  That sounds like as good an explanation as any other and I have a lot of respect for Ausmus.

no kidding? mechanics, you say? wow, whouda thunk it.

the Ausmus hump story was pulling the media's legs, as Dartmouth men are wont to do from time to time.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #77 on: April 13, 2007, 02:11:51 pm »
Well, I was trying to stay away from pointless arguments about Lidge, but this thread seems to have a lot of pretty intelligent discussion.

I tend to think Lidge's problem is mostly with his mechanics.  I heard an interview Brad Ausmus did a couple of days ago on ESPN Radio where he said that Lidge's slider has developed a hump in it and that hitters are recognizing it now and laying off of it.  That sounds like as good an explanation as any other and I have a lot of respect for Ausmus.

It is mechanics, but it is a maintaining of said mechanics that is the problem.  One pitch he flies open (Shoulder is pointing towards first base) and the next pitch he's not.  I think Ausmus simplified the "hump" aspect to the media so they could at least write "mechanics" or something close to it in the next report.

Quote
As for this demotion, I wonder if Gar wasn't a little hasty with it.  But I did like his idea of getting Lidge more regular work.  However, I am puzzled that he didn't use Lidge in either of the games in Chicago.  I was especially befuddled by the way Gar kept getting Lidge up in the pen on Tuesday, but then never used him, but supposedly was going to go to him in the 9th if Wheeler failed.  Color me confused.

In the GZ, I was confused why Wheeler was used and not so much that Lidge was getting ready.  Then I realized that Craig had posted a weather report for the following day and it made sense to me.  The game was not entirely out of reach, so he used up his  reliable closer for now and let tomorrow worry about tomorrow sort of speak.

Quote
As for Lidge's attitude, I don't believe there is any problem there.  I think Ortiz was looking to create controversy where none existed, which is nothing unusual.  I am highly skeptical of anything printed in the Chron.  Thank god for Alyson Footer handing those tools their asses on a daily basis.

I don't know if I trust that JdJO was trying to stir some stuff up, but that was the end result.  What I find a bit annoying is how something so simple can become so complicated because of lack of reporting.  If I read "ever since the Pujols homerun..." one more time in a report about Lidge either doing well or badly, I'm going to kick your cat.  You've been warned.

Okay, I'm just kidding about kicking your cat, I wouldn't do that, but I would scream!  It would be very similar to me saying "Hey, ever since Lance Berkman took Chris Carpenter deep in that game in late September that almost (again *ALMOST*) cost the Co-ards the division title... well, Carpenter hasn't been the same.  Look, he's probably done for his career now!".  I'd be just as correct in my correlation Berkman/Carpenter as Pujols/Lidge.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 11:13:24 pm by Noe in Austin »

JSAstrosFan

  • Disappointing Rookie
  • Posts: 99
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #78 on: April 13, 2007, 02:13:14 pm »
Just wondering, was there a similar discussion here surrounding Dotel before he was traded?

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #79 on: April 13, 2007, 02:13:41 pm »
Lidge had been throwing in the 7th and the 8th that day. he did not need much time in the 9th.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

JimR

  • Contributor
  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 29345
    • View Profile
    • McGinnis, Lochridge & Kilgore, LLP
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #80 on: April 13, 2007, 02:14:41 pm »
Just wondering, was there a similar discussion here surrounding Dotel before he was traded?

probably. occasionally, frontrunners slip past the guards.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

MusicMan

  • High Order of the Ferret
  • *****
  • Posts: 25931
  • Thanks for 2015
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #81 on: April 13, 2007, 02:16:28 pm »
Just wondering, was there a similar discussion here surrounding Dotel before he was traded?

If memory serves, by the end of his tenure, you could tell after one pitch whether OD would be effective.  Elbow up, good news; elbow down, pinball.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #82 on: April 13, 2007, 02:17:16 pm »
Just wondering, was there a similar discussion here surrounding Dotel before he was traded?

You mean for Carlos Beltran?  There was some discussion about who would help him pack.  Dotel always had a very noticeable issue with his delivery.  It was thoroughly discussed.  He was always the setup guy though.  There was some talk about closing but Wagner and then Lidge were always prefered.

ybbodeus

  • Key Member of the Conspiracy
  • Posts: 3041
    • View Profile
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #83 on: April 13, 2007, 02:18:21 pm »
Houston has a football mentality.   Booing does not make you a knowlegable or even involved fan.  Certainly giving up on Lidge is an option.  Easiest thing in the world, more time to consider your football draft choices.  And  Purpura can just make a call to the Closer Academy and have them send one over in the next delivery.  (ETA) Your thoughts on learning the value, and rarity, of understanding failure is also appropriate in this context.

paging Taras Bulba?

Right on, Mr. P.  Simply nails.  
"(512) ybbodeus looks just as creepy in HD as in person."   That is a problem, and we are working on it.

pravata

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #84 on: April 13, 2007, 02:21:16 pm »
Lidge had been throwing in the 7th and the 8th that day. he did not need much time in the 9th.

Chicago papers noted that Murton is 6 for 7 with a homerun v. Lidge.

Noe

  • Guest
Re: All Lidge. All the time.
« Reply #85 on: April 13, 2007, 02:23:38 pm »
Just wondering, was there a similar discussion here surrounding Dotel before he was traded?

I don't remember anything similar.  But with Dotel, the discussion about his ability to close a game came well before he was traded.  It went back to 2000, when Billy Wagner was on the shelf for most of the year and Dotel had to close games.  He was so-so at it.

His main problem was arm slot, so we talked at length about it that year (the talk centered around his frisbee slider).  Then Billy came back, Dotel was the setup man and was okay.  Then in 2003, for at least two to three months if I remember correctly, it was Lidge to Dotel to Wagner and boy was that a ton of fun.  Those guys could deal (and one of the reasons they pitched that no-no in New York against the Yankees).  And then in 2004, Dotel got the job because Wagner shot his mouth off on the owner and that was that.

It all came out in the wash after Dotel was traded that he indeed had an injured arm and was trying to pitch through it.  Hence his arm slot problems.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 02:25:44 pm by Noe in Austin »