Author Topic: stirring up the natives  (Read 12566 times)

pravata

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stirring up the natives
« on: April 11, 2007, 10:29:22 am »
Jose de JO gets Lidge to say this,

"I'm definitely upset about losing my role after throwing in two games, after throwing in one save situation," Lidge said. "Garner made the decision, and I will of course stand by it. He's my manager, and I'll do whatever he wants me to do. But that being said, I'm pretty ticked off about it. I guess the only thing I can do is use it as motivation."  http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4704387.html

While Footer reported this,

“I was a little surprised just ‘cause obviously I’ve had two outings,” he said. “So it was surprising, but not totally unjustified. I understand that it’s about results...."
http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=101567.0

And again JO is floating rumors of a trade "a friend who covers an American League East team sent a message this afternoon informing me that there was a report out of his city..."  I've looked in the Boston papers, I don't see anything.  Where's the link Jose?   He's promising "... we'll give you the words as they came out.", from Purpura denying he's planning a trade, (wink wink, his pal Pinwheel is saying on the radio, "that's what they have to say" implying he'll tell us what they really mean.) or from Lidge who might say anything in a moment of frustration and take it back later when he's more thoughtful.  We can be sure which version we'll get from the Chron.  Riling up the fans, so what?  Who else thinks the boos on Sunday may have had something to do with the current situation? 

MusicMan

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2007, 10:35:39 am »
ESPN is now running with the Chronicle version.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2007, 10:37:50 am »
i am a Lidge fan, but a trade filling a need of the Astros would not be bad for him either.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2007, 10:38:22 am »
His era has dropped to 9

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2007, 10:38:31 am »
ESPN is now running with the Chronicle version.

Lidge has got to know that his removal from the closer role wasn't based upon just these two performances, right?
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pravata

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2007, 10:40:27 am »
i am a Lidge fan, but a trade filling a need of the Astros would not be bad for him either.

There hasn't been a week gone by since Pujols hit the homer that Lidge hasn't been rumored to be traded, even ordered to be traded.   I don't consider this new information.  Just red meat.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2007, 10:40:58 am »
This can't end well.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2007, 10:41:32 am »
i am a Lidge fan, but a trade filling a need of the Astros would not be bad for him either.

Can Lidge actually fetch a #3 starter?  Otherwise there isn't a hole on the bench in the bullpen or in the starting 8 that Purp has actually commented on wanting to fill.
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pravata

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2007, 10:44:23 am »
This can't end well.

There's any number of ways this can end well.  However, the Astros can't have a middle reliever making over 5 million.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2007, 10:44:51 am »
Can Lidge actually fetch a #3 starter?  Otherwise there isn't a hole on the bench in the bullpen or in the starting 8 that Purp has actually commented on wanting to fill.

why do you think he would say for publication what he would like to do? the holes are apparent.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2007, 10:46:08 am »
CF Please

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2007, 10:48:10 am »
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/11/Rays/As_Maddon_institutes_.shtml

Seems like more speculation.  Mentions Rocco Baldelli & some young pitchers as potential bait for Houston.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2007, 10:49:30 am »
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/11/Rays/As_Maddon_institutes_.shtml

Seems like more speculation.  Mentions Rocco Baldelli & some young pitchers as potential bait for Houston.

Just beat me to it.

Lidge/Burke for Baldelli and Cantu?
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2007, 10:52:18 am »
Just beat me to it.

Lidge/Burke for Baldelli and Cantu?

Just Rocky for Lidge, please.
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Noe

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2007, 10:52:31 am »
Jose de JO gets Lidge to say this,

"I'm definitely upset about losing my role after throwing in two games, after throwing in one save situation," Lidge said. "Garner made the decision, and I will of course stand by it. He's my manager, and I'll do whatever he wants me to do. But that being said, I'm pretty ticked off about it. I guess the only thing I can do is use it as motivation." 

I've never met anyone in any walk of life that is *happy* about being demoted.  In fact, pretty much what Lidge said is the norm.  As a manager, you hope they all have this attitude of using the demotion as motivation rather than sitting around moping about entitlement.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2007, 10:53:59 am »
why do you think he would say for publication what he would like to do? the holes are apparent.

I didn't mean in just the past week.  He's committed to Burke in center since the Taveras deal.  Biggio goes nowhere.  Scott is fine.  3b I suppose is a possibility but didn't that go nowhere all winter?  Have you heard of any changes on that front?
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2007, 10:54:18 am »
Just Rocky for Lidge, please.

I don't think that's enough to get the Rays to pull the trigger.  Of course, Hun was never a huge Burke fan, so my way might not work either.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2007, 10:54:48 am »
3b I suppose is a possibility but didn't that go nowhere all winter?  Have you heard of any changes on that front?

Mmmm... Evan Longoria...
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2007, 10:55:38 am »
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/11/Rays/As_Maddon_institutes_.shtml

Seems like more speculation.  Mentions Rocco Baldelli & some young pitchers as potential bait for Houston.

Get Mitch Talbot back.
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PCOL2000

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2007, 10:59:03 am »
What about Carl Crawford? 

pravata

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2007, 10:59:35 am »
http://www.sptimes.com/2007/04/11/Rays/As_Maddon_institutes_.shtml

Seems like more speculation.  Mentions Rocco Baldelli & some young pitchers as potential bait for Houston.

Completely speculative "But if they do, the Rays would be a logical trading partner..." but interesting.  However, this doesn't say anyone is "talking to" anyone.  And a "rumor" isn't just making stuff up.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2007, 11:00:01 am »
Any discussion of Crawford would have to start with Troy Patton.
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pravata

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2007, 11:01:06 am »
I've never met anyone in any walk of life that is *happy* about being demoted.  In fact, pretty much what Lidge said is the norm.  As a manager, you hope they all have this attitude of using the demotion as motivation rather than sitting around moping about entitlement.

But Jose conviently leaves out the part where Lidge "understands".

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2007, 11:09:23 am »
Any discussion of Crawford would have to start with Troy Patton.
There must have been a dozen radar guns at the Dell for Albers's start on Friday, which I take as evidence of other organizations doing homework on prospects that might interest them. (Or maybe the operators were just frying themselves trying to stay warm.) Is Albers a more, or less, interesting prospect than Patton?

Tampa is playing Crawford in LF. Is Crawford a capable CF who is playing LF because Baldelli is better in CF, or is Crawford not CF material?
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2007, 11:17:45 am »
There must have been a dozen radar guns at the Dell for Albers's start on Friday, which I take as evidence of other organizations doing homework on prospects that might interest them. (Or maybe the operators were just frying themselves trying to stay warm.) Is Albers a more, or less, interesting prospect than Patton?



Less interesting.  Patton lefty, Albers righty.  Albers stuff is a little better.  Patton's control is better.  Patton doesn't have a questionable history.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2007, 11:18:55 am »
Tampa is playing Crawford in LF. Is Crawford a capable CF who is playing LF because Baldelli is better in CF, or is Crawford not CF material?
Even when Baldelli's been hurt, which has been often, CC hasn't played much CF.  He's certainly got the speed, arm maybe?

Elijah Dukes & Baldelli have been splitting CF duties about 50-50, from what I can tell.  Baldelli's been playing the other games at DH, I guess in an effort to keep him healthy.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2007, 11:25:33 am »
CC couldn't be worse out there than Burke.  but where would Burke move if a deal went through?  or if he was involved, who plays second when biggio is done?  Carl Crawford is greasy fast.  and i forgot if mark loretta is signed for just this year or was it a 2 year deal?

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2007, 11:33:24 am »
Any discussion of Crawford would have to start with Troy Patton.

I would have thought Oswalt.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2007, 11:49:15 am »
I would have thought Oswalt.

Agreed. I think any discussion of Baldelli would start with Patton.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2007, 11:51:18 am »
Tampa is playing Crawford in LF. Is Crawford a capable CF who is playing LF because Baldelli is better in CF, or is Crawford not CF material?

Now my brain is bleeding...

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2007, 12:10:42 pm »
Agreed. I think any discussion of Baldelli would start with Patton.

Dammit, I'm trying to start another Oswalt rumor.  Maybe a 3way with the Stem including Lastings Milledge.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2007, 01:24:09 pm »
Jon Heyman at SI claims to have contacted at least 3 executives interested in Lidge, "at the right price".
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2007, 01:26:11 pm »
Jon Heyman at SI claims to have contacted at least 3 executives interested in Lidge, "at the right price".

and he perpetuates the nonsense that Prince Albert started his troubles. he was struggling before those playoffs started.
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pravata

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2007, 01:30:43 pm »
Jon Heyman at SI claims to have contacted at least 3 executives interested in Lidge, "at the right price".

Is Heyman trading Lidge?  Are any of these executives in contact with the Astros?  Pure bullshit.  The Florida article has also been picked up and touted as a "rumor".  Idiots. 

more crap,

"Lidge's velocity is off by a few mph, down to the low-to-mid 90s range, and his patented slider has lost a little bit of its bite."  Bullshit on both counts.  Lidge was hitting 97 easy on Sunday.  And his slider is exactly the same, except everyone is recognizing it.   Control of the fastball, how hard is that to understand?

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2007, 01:32:31 pm »
Is Heyman trading Lidge?  Are any of these executives in contact with the Astros?  Pure bullshit.  The Florida article has also been picked up and touted as a "rumor".  Idiots. 

more crap,

"Lidge's velocity is off by a few mph, down to the low-to-mid 90s range, and his patented slider has lost a little bit of its bite."  Bullshit on both counts.  Lidge was hitting 97 easy on Sunday.  And his slider is exactly the same, except everyone is recognizing it.   Control of the fastball, how hard is that to understand?

I don't think his slider is the same. He has a lot less command over it than he did 18 months ago.
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pravata

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2007, 01:39:12 pm »
I don't think his slider is the same. He has a lot less command over it than he did 18 months ago.

If he's spotting the fastball that doesn't matter.  Then he just needs to bury the slider.  It doesn't need to be in the zone at all.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2007, 01:47:04 pm »
If he's spotting the fastball that doesn't matter.  Then he just needs to bury the slider.  It doesn't need to be in the zone at all.

But if he's bouncing the slider then don't hitters just have to wait for him to fall behind and take their shots at the fastball they know is coming?

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2007, 01:50:28 pm »
"Lidge's velocity is off by a few mph, down to the low-to-mid 90s range, and his patented slider has lost a little bit of its bite."  Bullshit on both counts.  Lidge was hitting 97 easy on Sunday.  And his slider is exactly the same, except everyone is recognizing it.   Control of the fastball, how hard is that to understand?

Perhaps I misunderstood Ausmus' comments.  Didn't he indicate that Lidge's mechanics wre putting a hump in the slider that made it recognizable?

If they can see the hump, they take the pitch.  He'd have to have all-time great command of the FB to make that work.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

pravata

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2007, 01:51:19 pm »
But if he's bouncing the slider then don't hitters just have to wait for him to fall behind and take their shots at the fastball they know is coming?

If he's getting strikes with the fastball he doesn't fall behind. 

pravata

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2007, 01:54:47 pm »
Perhaps I misunderstood Ausmus' comments.  Didn't he indicate that Lidge's mechanics wre putting a hump in the slider that made it recognizable?

If they can see the hump, they take the pitch.  He'd have to have all-time great command of the FB to make that work.

I haven't seen the video, but from the description that seems right.  I do know that they are just stepping out on the slider.  That started in LA last season.  I wonder if the delivery is different with the fastball and slider.  In any case, if the fastballs are for strikes, his slider doesnt have to be a strike.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2007, 01:55:41 pm »
If he's getting strikes with the fastball he doesn't fall behind. 

Eggszactly.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2007, 02:00:13 pm »
NO, the delivery is not different! we went through the whole "tipping his pitches" craze last year. he is opening up and falling off toward first. his mechanics have not improved much, if at all, since last season despite all the talk and work.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2007, 02:04:31 pm »
NO, the delivery is not different!

Its not a different delivery which is seen, its the results (i.e. hump in the pitch) that is seen. That is what Ausmus says.

Now, you (JimR) told me last year that his slider's effectiveness has nothing to do with his ability to spot the fastball. Did I misunderstand?
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2007, 02:14:54 pm »
Its not a different delivery which is seen, its the results (i.e. hump in the pitch) that is seen. That is what Ausmus says.

Now, you (JimR) told me last year that his slider's effectiveness has nothing to do with his ability to spot the fastball. Did I misunderstand?
i was responding to Paul's post concerning different deliveries.

i do not remember saying that, but.... his slider and command of it, to me, have nothing to do with his fastball, spotting it or not. when he was going really good, he did not need a FB at all. they are separate pitches.

if, however, he can throw his FB for strikes, it makes his slider more dangerous b/c hitters cannot afford to take it behind in the count. that assumes, of course, that the slider does not bounce before reaching the plate.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2007, 02:20:39 pm »
i was responding to Paul's post concerning different deliveries.

i do not remember saying that, but.... his slider and command of it, to me, have nothing to do with his fastball, spotting it or not. when he was going really good, he did not need a FB at all. they are separate pitches.

if, however, he can throw his FB for strikes, it makes his slider more dangerous b/c hitters cannot afford to take it behind in the count. that assumes, of course, that the slider does not bounce before reaching the plate.

I had what you said somewhat backwards, but we agree.

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=65286.msg65332#msg65332
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2007, 02:21:58 pm »
I had what you said somewhat backwards, but we agree.

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=65286.msg65332#msg65332

well, good. i agreed with myself.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2007, 02:33:08 pm »
and he perpetuates the nonsense that Prince Albert started his troubles. he was struggling before those playoffs started.

The story is absolutely astounding to me in that many believe to this day that the Astros had some sort of cataclysmic meltdown after that homeurn by, guess what, the best darn hitter in the league.

"Pujols hits a homerun..." is a akin to saying "sun rises in the east and sets in the west...".  Nothing new and Lidge has to stand in line to be the only guy Pujols has taken deep.  But back to the actual truth of the matter: The Houston Astros did not lose the 2005 NLCS on that pitch.  They lost game 5 and that was the extent of that.

Roy Oswalt made sure that game 6 was a no doubter and Dan Wheeler took the wrecking ball to Bush Stadium soon afterwards.  So why, anyone with a modicum of sense or sports psychology acumen tell me, would a homerun in game 5 of the NLCS to ruin a good hometown sweep of the Co-ards to go to the World Series, even effect Brad Lidge.

It was not that big a deal of a homerun.  It plays well in a hollywood script, but it's not the shot heard round the world or anywhere near that.  That the Astros and Lidge had a great laugh about it on the plane tells you *eggszactly* how deep the scar was for that wound.  About surface level to be sure.

Brad Lidge has suffered from the league catching up to him, but the fall of a once dominant closer to a guy trying to find himself was seen as sudden and Pujols induced by the great unwashed in the baseball world because it sells.

And it's also factually incorrect.  Lidge is a talented guy who needs to work his arse off to find what will work for him to get guys out... be it in the sixth or the ninth, doesn't matter, the idea is to get outs and that is his job if he wants to do it.  They adjusted to him, now he needs to adjust to them.  That many believe he is not entitled to change himself into a cutter/slider/four seamer guy and he should be the Lidge of old with the nasty slider no one could pick up is fooling oneself.  They have adjusted.  He cannot pitch like he did before.  So now, he needs to adjust and Garner is giving him a chance to pitch his way towards said adjustment.  If this is not allowed, then they need to move him to a team that will allow him to adjust and be done with it.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 02:39:15 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2007, 02:34:26 pm »
well, good. i agreed with myself.

That's not something everyone can say

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2007, 03:12:56 pm »
Late to the party but Baldelli for Lidge just might be something the Rays would do. They are certainly in need of bullpen help and with the abundance of outfielders the Rays have plus Rocco's injury history (he was DHing because of a hammy strain from spring), flawed closer for flawed CFer might work.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2007, 03:23:59 pm »
Late to the party but Baldelli for Lidge just might be something the Rays would do. They are certainly in need of bullpen help and with the abundance of outfielders the Rays have plus Rocco's injury history (he was DHing because of a hammy strain from spring), flawed closer for flawed CFer might work.

Crawford will not be traded...

ETA: ...this year.

I saw Baldelli play in the Texas game broadcast the other night.  He looks like a shadow of his former self right now.  He took some weird hacks at the ball trying to hit the ball too.

He's off right now.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2007, 03:26:15 pm »
Late to the party but Baldelli for Lidge just might be something the Rays would do. They are certainly in need of bullpen help and with the abundance of outfielders the Rays have plus Rocco's injury history (he was DHing because of a hammy strain from spring), flawed closer for flawed CFer might work.

Crawford will not be traded...

ETA: ...this year.

Trading for Lidge would be a bad PR risk, wouldn't it? I can't imagine Execs offering much for him.
Would you do Baldelli for Lidge? An Astros minor league arm would have to be involved.

Just read Noe's post. Lidge for Rocco may work.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2007, 03:27:41 pm »
ACL/MCL repair. Tommy John. Hamstring issues. He hasn't played a full season in almost three years.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2007, 03:30:21 pm »
i was responding to Paul's post concerning different deliveries.

i do not remember saying that, but.... his slider and command of it, to me, have nothing to do with his fastball, spotting it or not. when he was going really good, he did not need a FB at all. they are separate pitches.

if, however, he can throw his FB for strikes, it makes his slider more dangerous b/c hitters cannot afford to take it behind in the count. that assumes, of course, that the slider does not bounce before reaching the plate.

Didn't he get ahead 0-2 on OD to the would-be final out, and then bounce one, if not two, sliders, forcing him to come back with a fastball that Nady cranked? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2007, 03:31:12 pm »
Trading for Lidge would be a bad PR risk, wouldn't it?

Maybe at the beginning of last year. But everybody is CC, Young and Dukes crazy right now. To get an arm like Lidge, albeit struggling, may fly enough under the PR radar.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2007, 03:33:36 pm »
Just read Noe's post. Lidge for Rocco may work.

If I read the comment correctly from the Tampa Bay scribe, there are many who believe Tim Purpura was taken by the Rays in the Aubrey Huff deal.  Mitch Talbot and Ben Zobrist are seen as great steals for a guy who was at one time considered a proven major league performer and run producer.

Ben Zobrist is not going to prove to be a great steal when all is said and done, Houston has plenty of guys that can replace Zobrist as a major leaguer.  Brooks Conrad for one, Tommy Manzella for another.  But I digress.

Mitch Talbot was indeed a steal and Hunsicker knew what he was doing when he asked for Mitch.  So, any way... anyone who wants to trade with Hunsicker and thinks they can just offer *anybody* in the minor league arms duct taped to Lidge and he'll jump on it has got another thing coming.  And if Baldelli is no better an option of a player to help the team as Huff proved to be last year, then the talk of Hunsicker basically taking the Astros to the cleaners again will certainly resurface.

Think twice about what  you're getting and what you'd need to give away in this sceanrio.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2007, 03:39:34 pm »
Didn't he get ahead 0-2 on OD to the would-be final out, and then bounce one, if not two, sliders, forcing him to come back with a fastball that Nady cranked? Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

Nope.  Lidge went 3-2 on Paulino, the guy before Nady, after going up 0-2.  He had previously struck out LaRoche on three pitches.  So he got the first two outs, then tried a first pitch fastball at the knees with Nady that he crushed.  It was low and inside and somehow Nady knew to go down and get it.  BTW - it was the same pitch he threw to Paulino, albeit not low but in the same location inside, to break his bat to induce a weak ground ball to Everett.  The swing Nady put on his pitch was a golf swing too, strange but true.  The location was really good.  But Nady just beat Lidge that time.  Paulino put a normal level swing on his and it broke his bat.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2007, 03:43:50 pm »
I don't think the Astros do that trade because of the question marks around Baldelli.

The real reason I don't think the Rays would trade for Lidge is his salary.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2007, 03:45:32 pm »
I don't think the Astros do that trade because of the question marks around Baldelli.

The real reason I don't think the Rays would trade for Lidge is his salary.

Excellent points.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #58 on: April 11, 2007, 03:58:24 pm »
Trading for Lidge would be a bad PR risk, wouldn't it? I can't imagine Execs offering much for him.
Would you do Baldelli for Lidge? An Astros minor league arm would have to be involved.

Just read Noe's post. Lidge for Rocco may work.

And here I am thinking Baldelli's not enough for Lidge.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2007, 04:01:59 pm »
how about Rowand?
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #60 on: April 11, 2007, 04:08:46 pm »
how about Rowand?

Meh.  Turns 30 this year and is a career .278 hitter.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #61 on: April 11, 2007, 04:11:40 pm »
Nope.  Lidge went 3-2 on Paulino, the guy before Nady, after going up 0-2.  He had previously struck out LaRoche on three pitches.  So he got the first two outs, then tried a first pitch fastball at the knees with Nady that he crushed.  It was low and inside and somehow Nady knew to go down and get it.  BTW - it was the same pitch he threw to Paulino, albeit not low but in the same location inside, to break his bat to induce a weak ground ball to Everett.  The swing Nady put on his pitch was a golf swing too, strange but true.  The location was really good.  But Nady just beat Lidge that time.  Paulino put a normal level swing on his and it broke his bat.

He knew because Brad went to the well one too many times.  http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=101474.0
« Last Edit: April 11, 2007, 04:14:36 pm by pravata »

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #62 on: April 11, 2007, 04:13:08 pm »
Meh.  Turns 30 this year and is a career .278 hitter.

He has a reputation as a very good defensive centerfielder, but I think that is based more on face-plants in to the fence rather than actual range. Sometime, someone somewhere around here posted some study concluding how many runs were saved/allowed by defensive players (I think it was in a Noe-lead Beltran as the best defensive centerfielder discussion) and I was surprised at how low Rowand was ranked among centerfielders.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2007, 04:25:34 pm »
He has a reputation as a very good defensive centerfielder, but I think that is based more on face-plants in to the fence rather than actual range. Sometime, someone somewhere around here posted some study concluding how many runs were saved/allowed by defensive players (I think it was in a Noe-lead Beltran as the best defensive centerfielder discussion) and I was surprised at how low Rowand was ranked among centerfielders.

Which reminds me: Last night I watched Eric Young and Fatty Kruk take each outfield position and name the best player they ever saw play the position and then say why.

Left field was Barry Bonds.  Hmmmmm... okay, but I personally think Bonds is slightly above average as a left fielder.  Then both agreed that the best centerfielder was Andruw Jones.

WHAT?!?!

Kruk said that his personal criteria for looking for a great centerfielder is someone who can:

1. Play shallow.
2. Has a great arm.
3. Has great speed.
4. Reads the ball off the bat well.

Sure looks like he's reading off Andruw Jone's scouting report to me (or resume).  I don't disagree with those points when it comes to his ability either, but I personally do not think of Jones as a great centerfielder in the same vein as Carlos Beltran.

Again, my own personal position on the matter has been that the guys who make it look easy are the best.  And that is similar to my position on Adam Everett too.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #64 on: April 11, 2007, 04:40:31 pm »
I don't think the Astros do that trade because of the question marks around Baldelli.

The real reason I don't think the Rays would trade for Lidge is his salary.

True.

On the other hand, to me the only reason you don't trade Lidge in a deal like that is because you believe he will get back to his former self and close effectively.  Otherwise you are hanging onto a set up man with question marks in lieu of a real, live MLB center fielder with question marks.

I am sure the Astros think the future is unwritten with regard to Lidge, and that he'll return to effectiveness.  I'm not doubting it, but after seeing him recently, I wouldn't bet real money on it.  I just hope nobody with Houston gets hung up on the memories of how Lidge was in 2004-2005, but rather keeps a clear eye on what he is now, when looking at other clubs offers (if there are any.)

Baldelli is still only 25, I think.  If there is reason to believe he can put his injury problems behind him anytime soon, I'd sure want to think about it.  Theoretically, if he came here, next year I assume Burke would move to 2B, and he and Baldelli would bat 1-2.  In TB, there's been a lot more put on Rocco to be sort of a power-RBI guy, and he's batted #3 and #4 quite a bit, which I just don't think he is ideally suited for.  I remember checking awhile back, and Baldelli did very well at leadoff and #2.  One thing I wouldn't mind seeing is him at MMPUS batting #1 or #2 and playing CF every day, not having to worry about being the guy.

I realize this is pure conjecture (fancy word for "talking out my ass"), of course.  And none of it matters if Rocco can't get healthy.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #65 on: April 11, 2007, 04:45:09 pm »
Kruk said that his personal criteria for looking for a great centerfielder is someone who can:

1. Play shallow.
2. Has a great arm.
3. Has great speed.
4. Reads the ball off the bat well.


Paul Blair.  He played so shallow he looked like a rover in softball.  Terrific range and judgement, good to great arm.  The younger, slimmer Jones was great, but I don't know if he was better than Blair.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2007, 04:48:40 pm »

Paul Blair.  He played so shallow he looked like a rover in softball.  Terrific range and judgement, good to great arm.  The younger, slimmer Jones was great, but I don't know if he was better than Blair.

I don't think Jones was better than one Garry Maddox, either. More painful memories.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2007, 04:48:48 pm »
And none of it matters if Rocco can't get healthy.

That's really the rub. 2 major surgeries and now nagging little things.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2007, 04:54:49 pm »
And here I am thinking Baldelli's not enough for Lidge.

I would feel not only thrilled, but strangely precient with a Lidge-Baldelli swap.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2007, 05:30:33 pm »
I don't think Jones was better than one Garry Maddox, either. More painful memories.


Well, as Ralph Kiner noted, Maddox definitely had range.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #70 on: April 11, 2007, 05:44:36 pm »
I would feel not only thrilled, but strangely precient with a Lidge-Baldelli swap.

Baldelli's injuries seem to be much more of a troublesome problem than what ails Lidge.  As Noe said, Lidge now has to adjust to the hitters (and fix his mechanics).   I wouldn't do a straight up Lidge-Baldelli swap.

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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #71 on: April 11, 2007, 06:53:38 pm »

Paul Blair.  He played so shallow he looked like a rover in softball.  Terrific range and judgement, good to great arm.  The younger, slimmer Jones was great, but I don't know if he was better than Blair.

Now there's a name out of  the past. What a CFer. One of the best I ever saw.
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Re: stirring up the natives
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2007, 12:43:26 pm »
and he perpetuates the nonsense that Prince Albert started his troubles. he was struggling before those playoffs started.

He was one of the big ones in spreading the Oswalt trade nonsense, too.
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