Purpura not interested in re-signing Springer?

[JaneDoe]

 "He's a one-inning guy," Purpura said. "His ERA in one inning is stellar. Go past one inning, it goes to 20."

Why is this a bad thing about him?  Many of us would be thrilled to have Lidge's ERA "stellar" for one inning.

[Taras Bulba]

Quote:
"He's a one-inning guy," Purpura said. "His ERA in one inning is stellar. Go past one inning, it goes to 20."

Why is this a bad thing about him?  Many of us would be thrilled to have Lidge's ERA "stellar" for one inning.

From what I have read, it has to do with the anticipated make up of the staff, notably with Williams not being more than a five or six inning guy.  They are looking at relievers that can effectively pitch two or more innings.

[No? in Austin]

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"He's a one-inning guy," Purpura said. "His ERA in one inning is stellar. Go past one inning, it goes to 20."

Why is this a bad thing about him?  Many of us would be thrilled to have Lidge's ERA "stellar" for one inning.

From what I have read, it has to do with the anticipated make up of the staff, notably with Williams not being more than a five or six inning guy.  They are looking at relievers that can effectively pitch two or more innings.

I think you have to add to the mix the possibility of Nieve and Buchholz being in the bullpen for the entire season in 07.  In fact, you may just go ahead and pencil in Nieve and Buchholz now as relievers for '07 along with Miller, Qualls, Wheeler and Lidge.  Miller, Wheeler, Lidge and Qualls can now be counted on as veteran leadership for the young guys.  If you find a lefty reliever to compliment Miller, you can probably take Buchholz off the list or just carry a 12 man staff for the season. 11 is what I'd carry, however Scrap Iron usually likes to carry 12.

He knows more than me, so:

Lidge
Qualls
Wheeler
Nieve
Buchholz
Miller
(Lefty add-on)

Nice bullpen, one you can win with.

[Dobro]

Some of ya'll really need to snap out of the Brad Lidge trance and face reality.  He ain't that good.

[MusicMan]

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Some of ya'll really need to snap out of the Brad Lidge trance and face reality.  He ain't that good.

Did you watch baseball before 2006?

[pravata]

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Some of ya'll really need to snap out of the Brad Lidge trance and face reality.  He ain't that good.

Did you watch baseball before 2006?

Why should anyone care?  Besides being boringly one note, his opinion about "reality" is irrelevant.  It's Purpura's opinion that matters and he turned down a trade Lidge for Jake Westbrook.  I'm just mentioning it because reality is what the Astros think of Lidge, not any of us. (ETA) Just occured to me, what reality is Cleveland living in, asking about Lidge? (more) or the Rockies or the Red Sox?  Are all these organizations delusional as well?

[stubbyc]

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I think you have to add to the mix the possibility of Nieve and Buchholz being in the bullpen for the entire season in 07.  In fact, you may just go ahead and pencil in Nieve and Buchholz now as relievers for '07 along with Miller, Qualls, Wheeler and Lidge.  Miller, Wheeler, Lidge and Qualls can now be counted on as veteran leadership for the young guys.  If you find a lefty reliever to compliment Miller, you can probably take Buchholz off the list or just carry a 12 man staff for the season. 11 is what I'd carry, however Scrap Iron usually likes to carry 12.

He knows more than me, so:

Lidge
Qualls
Wheeler
Nieve
Buchholz
Miller
(Lefty add-on)

Nice bullpen, one you can win with.

I would think that guys like Albers, Sampson, and maybe even Gutierrez would be candidates for the bullpen if we are able to acquire more starters.

I'm not necessarily against getting another reliever, but I would be much more concerned about the starting rotation than the bullpen as of right now. Lefty relievers are going for a lot right now. Do you think they will give McLemore a shot at the 2nd lefty spot?

[Jacksonian]

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"He's a one-inning guy," Purpura said. "His ERA in one inning is stellar. Go past one inning, it goes to 20."

Why is this a bad thing about him?  Many of us would be thrilled to have Lidge's ERA "stellar" for one inning.

From what I have read, it has to do with the anticipated make up of the staff, notably with Williams not being more than a five or six inning guy.  They are looking at relievers that can effectively pitch two or more innings.

I think you have to add to the mix the possibility of Nieve and Buchholz being in the bullpen for the entire season in 07.  In fact, you may just go ahead and pencil in Nieve and Buchholz now as relievers for '07 along with Miller, Qualls, Wheeler and Lidge.  Miller, Wheeler, Lidge and Qualls can now be counted on as veteran leadership for the young guys.  If you find a lefty reliever to compliment Miller, you can probably take Buchholz off the list or just carry a 12 man staff for the season. 11 is what I'd carry, however Scrap Iron usually likes to carry 12.

He knows more than me, so:

Lidge
Qualls
Wheeler
Nieve
Buchholz
Miller
(Lefty add-on)

Nice bullpen, one you can win with.

I dunno.  They were on record last year as not liking Buchholz out of the pen.  I'd think, if the Astros were going to go with a young guy in the pen for the last spot, they'd go with Estrada who lit up the Texas League as the CC closer last year.

[JimR]

i'm thinking he got the scholarship to Notre Dame that you wanted or that he beat you regularly in the minor leagues. your obsession with him is really unhealthy. all of your oh, so close friends on here are worried about you.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

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Some of ya'll really need to snap out of the Brad Lidge trance and face reality.  He ain't that good.

Did you watch baseball before 2006?

Why should anyone care?  Besides being boringly one note, his opinion about "reality" is irrelevant.  It's Purpura's opinion that matters and he turned down a trade Lidge for Jake Westbrook.  I'm just mentioning it because reality is what the Astros think of Lidge, not any of us. (ETA) Just occured to me, what reality is Cleveland living in, asking about Lidge? (more) or the Rockies or the Red Sox?  Are all these organizations delusional as well?

More to the point, what does Houston see in Westbrook that they DON'T like?  Something has to have Houston thinking they can either get better for Lidge or that Lidge is  critical to their success in 2007 (which Purpura essentially stated).  

Me, I think Purpura is sticking to a solid plan of maintaining his bullpen strength knowing that he's not likely to land a significant upgrade to the rotation via trade or FA and is using the bullpen as insurance.  Insurance for young starters or older starters like Williams who won't last more than 5 or 6 innings.  Speaking of which, both Clemens and Pettitte average 6 innings per start (5.95).  If both come back, they will need the bullpen.  If they don't come back, they will need the bullpen because they'll probably lean on the young pitchers, i.e. Albers, Buchholtz, Hirsh, and maybe Nieve.

[das]

Maybe his arm does not feel like it's going to fall off now with some time off.  Maybe the Astros know this.

Do the guys work out or throw at all during the winter?  Is team management active in the players routines during the off season?

[pravata]

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Maybe his arm does not feel like it's going to fall off now with some time off.  Maybe the Astros know this.

Do the guys work out or throw at all during the winter?  Is team management active in the players routines during the off season?

Newsday "With retirement continuing to pull at him, Pettitte has not performed any baseball-related activities since the Astros' season ended two months ago. But the former Yankee is expected to begin his offseason workout regimen soon, and he figures to reach a decision after he tests his body." Link

[Dobro]

Quote:
i'm thinking he got the scholarship to Notre Dame that you wanted or that he beat you regularly in the minor leagues. your obsession with him is really unhealthy. all of your oh, so close friends on here are worried about you.

I never cared much about Notre Dame.  And I think the unhealthy obsession is Purpura's.  If he believes that Ensberg and Lidge are keys to success in 2007, God help the Astros.

[JimR]

well, you can say i told you so again and again.

[Ty in Tampa]

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well, you can say i told you so again and again.

The badge of a true winner.

[Arky Vaughan]

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I never cared much about Notre Dame.  And I think the unhealthy obsession is Purpura's.  If he believes that Ensberg and Lidge are keys to success in 2007, God help the Astros.

I wonder if he thinks that there's not much to be had selling low right now, and that given their past success, if they do manage to turn it around, that might not be bad for the team. But where did you get "keys to success" from?

[No? in Austin]

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I would think that guys like Albers, Sampson, and maybe even Gutierrez would be candidates for the bullpen if we are able to acquire more starters.

Albers is going to go to Round Rock to be the emergency starter callup you need at the ready in AAA.  He'll be in the mix in 2007 as a starter, but not on the Opening Day roster.  Sampson?  He's going to get a shot at #5 and that's about all he can ask for.  That or the long relief man job.  Gutierrez is going to Corpus Christi, ahum.. I think.

Quote:
I'm not necessarily against getting another reliever, but I would be much more concerned about the starting rotation than the bullpen as of right now. Lefty relievers are going for a lot right now. Do you think they will give McLemore a shot at the 2nd lefty spot?

You work on your pen in order to minimize your drastic need for inning eaters in the starting rotation.  It is a reverse philosophy from the 1998 Larry Dierker/Astrodome ERA of Houston Astros baseball.  Plus a good to great bullpen makes a starter that is good look great.  An average bullpen can make a starter look average in terms of wins/loses and so forth.

You can work it any way you wish, but it is certainly not a bad idea to shore up the pen with solid young hard throwers with the right mix of veterans in order to help bolster your rotation.  Yes, bolster the rotation!

[No? in Austin]

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Some of ya'll really need to snap out of the Brad Lidge trance and face reality.  He ain't that good.

Perhaps you're right, but if you're asking me about what I think, that's is one thing.  If you're asking me about what the Astros think, then that's another.

So who is this "some of y'all"?  Because it doesn't matter in the scheme of what I said.  Having said that though, I can speak to why I *personally* think it is a good idea to keep Lidge around:

1. He's young.
2. He's got a great arm.
3. He can improve.

Three good reasons to couple Brad Lidge with Dave Wallace for 2007.  Lidge tasted success right away, however he's now needs to adjust his game because the league has caught up to him.  Does that mean that he's not that good or that the league is pretty darn good at adjusting?  I think the latter.  Now it's time for Lidge to adjust and think in terms of getting people out as his primary job.  Does that mean he needs to strike everyone out to make him a premiere closer again?

No.  It doesn't.

It means to be an effective to great closer, you think about getting folks out in the ninth and getting your team off the field.  That is it in terms of the job responsibility.  All that fluff about dominance is just a tad overblown.  So the question is now can Lidge adjust?

I say hell yes, he can!

I saw him working on that cutter and sinker late in the season and it started to have some effectiveness.  Imagine Lidge throwing a 92 mph sinker with late movement (think Chad Qualls) along with his 97 mph four seamer and his nasty slider.  If you're a hitter, what do you sit on if he can command a sinker?

You're going to have to respect his ability to throw that sinker for a strike, so that will make the slider unhittable again.  I look forward to what Wallace will do with Lidge and others.  I also look forward to Lidge sticking it right back into all the nay-sayer's face too.  If it happens, it happens.  If it doesn't it doesn't... you move on.  But to get rid of him now, especially if you're not going to get high quality back is a huge mistake to make.

[JaneDoe]

 But to get rid of him now, especially if you're not going to get high quality back is a huge mistake to make.


This is what concerns me.  I hear alot of people (including my husband) who would trade Lidge for a bag of new bats and a container of chewing gum.  Even if he never closes another game but is a damn good relief pitcher, I'd rather have him on my team than face him, especially if he gets IT together (whatever IT is).

[Jacksonian]

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But to get rid of him now, especially if you're not going to get high quality back is a huge mistake to make.


This is what concerns me.  I hear alot of people (including my husband) who would trade Lidge for a bag of new bats and a container of chewing gum.  Even if he never closes another game but is a damn good relief pitcher, I'd rather have him on my team than face him, especially if he gets IT together (whatever IT is).

As Noe explained, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks but the Astros braintrust.  Don't let fans' opinions concern you.  Let Purp, Tal, and Drayton's opinions concern you.

[DVauthrin]

If you think brad lidge sucks as a baseball player, you missed his pro seasons before 2006(not talking to you noe because I kinow you don't, but others in the thread).    It's downright annoying how people are so willing to toss a guy out at low value for one bad season when his track record is so dominant.

Yes Lidge was frustrating last year.  Yes he has iffy mechanics.   But players sometimes have down seasons.   If you gave up on everyone of them after only one bad year, you might lose a lot of talent.   Plus with the deals i've seen for him, it's not really worth dealing him right now.

[JaneDoe]

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But to get rid of him now, especially if you're not going to get high quality back is a huge mistake to make.


This is what concerns me.  I hear alot of people (including my husband) who would trade Lidge for a bag of new bats and a container of chewing gum.  Even if he never closes another game but is a damn good relief pitcher, I'd rather have him on my team than face him, especially if he gets IT together (whatever IT is).

As Noe explained, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks but the Astros braintrust.  Don't let fans' opinions concern you.  Let Purp, Tal, and Drayton's opinions concern you.

The only thing that concerns me about fan's opinions is that they will become as loud as the David Carr haters and "force" managements hand.

[No? in Austin]

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But to get rid of him now, especially if you're not going to get high quality back is a huge mistake to make.


This is what concerns me.  I hear alot of people (including my husband) who would trade Lidge for a bag of new bats and a container of chewing gum.  Even if he never closes another game but is a damn good relief pitcher, I'd rather have him on my team than face him, especially if he gets IT together (whatever IT is).

It is one thing to speak of Mike Gallo as a guy you'll get rid of if a deal comes along because he is very iffy in terms of having any type of progress.  He has limited talent, so he must survive in the league on tenacity and the ability to stay ahead of hitters.  He has tenacity, but his inability to throw strikes constantly has given rise to huge concerns about his ability as a major leaguer.

So back to Lidge.  Are we looking at the same thing with Lidge?  Lack of tenacity?  Lack of talent?  Inability to throw strikes?  Some are quick to take 2006 and answer yes to all of the above.

It's nonsense and a too quick of an assement for Brad Lidge.  I offer that some folks don't know what they're looking at when they see Lidge pitch.  They may think they're seeing a right handed Mike Gallo, but they're not.

[JGrave]

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The only thing that concerns me about fan's opinions is that they will become as loud as the David Carr haters and "force" managements hand.

This is just my two cents but it's not even close to the same situation.

[pravata]

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The only thing that concerns me about fan's opinions is that they will become as loud as the David Carr haters and "force" managements hand.

This is just my two cents but it's not even close to the same situation.

Jay Powell.  He compared closer to Lidge than Gallo.

[JaneDoe]

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The only thing that concerns me about fan's opinions is that they will become as loud as the David Carr haters and "force" managements hand.

This is just my two cents but it's not even close to the same situation.

I know that, you know that. Idiot fan does not.  I hope it doesn't progress to that.


ETA-Oh great I graduated to Prime Time Player.  Always wanted to be named after Deion Sanders. (heavy sarcasm intended)

[DVauthrin]

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The only thing that concerns me about fan's opinions is that they will become as loud as the David Carr haters and "force" managements hand.

This is just my two cents but it's not even close to the same situation.

ETA-Oh great I graduated to Prime Time Player.  Always wanted to be named after Deion Sanders. (heavy sarcasm intended)

Or dick vitale.     (he always uses the phrase PTP'r-prime time player during college hoops games)

[JaneDoe]

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The only thing that concerns me about fan's opinions is that they will become as loud as the David Carr haters and "force" managements hand.

This is just my two cents but it's not even close to the same situation.

ETA-Oh great I graduated to Prime Time Player.  Always wanted to be named after Deion Sanders. (heavy sarcasm intended)

Or dick vitale.     (he always uses the phrase PTP'r-prime time player during college hoops games)

Oh gee, THANKS.  Now I'll be hearing him in my head all day.

[DVauthrin]

You're Welcome  

[Phil_in_CS]

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But to get rid of him now, especially if you're not going to get high quality back is a huge mistake to make.


This is what concerns me.  I hear alot of people (including my husband) who would trade Lidge for a bag of new bats and a container of chewing gum.  Even if he never closes another game but is a damn good relief pitcher, I'd rather have him on my team than face him, especially if he gets IT together (whatever IT is).

This bothered me when they traded Dotel, too. He had serious talent, but never got IT back together. Mechanics are easier to correct than a lack of talent.

[Greg D]

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Albers is going to go to Round Rock to be the emergency starter callup you need at the ready in AAA.  He'll be in the mix in 2007 as a starter, but not on the Opening Day roster.  Sampson?  He's going to get a shot at #5 and that's about all he can ask for.  That or the long relief man job.  Gutierrez is going to Corpus Christi, ahum.. I think.

Agree will all that except for Guti, who will be in RR with Albers.