Author Topic: Bravo, Mr. Luhnow. (Read 10314 times)

MusicMan · « **on:** July 31, 2012, 12:34:17 pm »

Quote

Bob Nightengale ‏@BNightengale
The #Marlins say they plan to put Carlos Lee on waivers if they can't trade him by today's non-waiver deadline

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:04:17 pm »

There's a sucker born every minute, but Lee is the winner because he still gets paid. I would be very surprised if he plays next season.

Limey · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:22:36 pm »

Apparently, Lee misunderstood the idea of a seafood diet in Miami.

pots · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:26:57 pm »

What if he doesn't make it through waivers. Who pays the rest of his contract? The Astros or the new team? Or does the new team pay his contract and the Marlins pocket a ton of cash??

MusicMan · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:27:18 pm »

Quote from: Limey on July 31, 2012, 01:22:36 pm

Apparently, Lee misunderstood the idea of a seafood diet in Miami.

He's thrilled at the idea of being put on wafers.

Houston · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:33:04 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on July 31, 2012, 01:27:18 pm

He's thrilled at the idea of being put on wafers.

Like!

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:40:17 pm »

Does Lee have a full no trade clause with Miami? Or a Limited No trade?

Ty in Tampa · « **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:41:14 pm »

Quote from: MusicMan on July 31, 2012, 01:27:18 pm

He's thrilled at the idea of being put on wafers.

"It's only a-waffer thin..."

Duman · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2012, 01:58:41 pm »

Quote from: pots on July 31, 2012, 01:26:57 pm

What if he doesn't make it through waivers. Who pays the rest of his contract? The Astros or the new team? Or does the new team pay his contract and the Marlins pocket a ton of cash??

Astros pay all except the prorated major league minimum. It would be funny if Lunhow put a claim on him - get him back and then placed him on waivers again and work out a trade. The marlins would never trade with him again.

pots · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2012, 02:01:57 pm »

Quote from: AppyAstros on July 31, 2012, 01:58:41 pm

Astros pay all except the prorated major league minimum. It would be funny if Lunhow put a claim on him - get him back and then placed him on waivers again and work out a trade. The marlins would never trade with him again.

Odd, I thought claiming someone on waivers meant you paid their contract.

jbm · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2012, 02:08:45 pm »

The Astros already paid around 8 million to Miami, IIRC. So, I am not sure why it is considered highway robbery. If Miami wanted to give Lee and 8 million to someone else, they would probably get a similar return.

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2012, 02:53:19 pm »

Quote from: jbm on July 31, 2012, 02:08:45 pm

The Astros already paid around 8 million to Miami, IIRC. So, I am not sure why it is considered highway robbery. If Miami wanted to give Lee and 8 million to someone else, they would probably get a similar return.

I'm curious if, now that he's been traded, his veto-power to the 14-teams he could veto a trade to while with the Astros would still apply, or if they could trade him anywhere without approval?

Bench · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2012, 02:56:53 pm »

Quote from: OregonStrosFan on July 31, 2012, 02:53:19 pm

I'm curious if, now that he's been traded, his veto-power to the 14-teams he could veto a trade to while with the Astros would still apply, or if they could trade him anywhere without approval?

My guess is that his contract was traded with him and assigned in all aspects to Miami. He hasn't entered into any contract with Miami (or anyone else) that would supersede the contract he originally entered into with the Astros, other then the designation of what team he plays for, which means that the contractual veto-power would still remain.

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #13 on:** July 31, 2012, 02:57:29 pm »

Quote from: Bench on July 31, 2012, 02:56:53 pm

My guess is that his contract was traded with him and assigned in all aspects to Miami. He hasn't entered into any contract with Miami (or anyone else) that would supersede the contract he originally entered into, which means that the contractual veto-power would still remain.

That's a fair (and probably correct) guess. Thanks!

Bench · « **Reply #14 on:** July 31, 2012, 02:58:26 pm »

Quote from: OregonStrosFan on July 31, 2012, 02:57:29 pm

That's a fair (and probably correct) guess. Thanks!

Though I'm totally for the situation where Luhnow claims him off waivers and trades him again.

Limey · « **Reply #15 on:** July 31, 2012, 02:58:35 pm »

Quote from: OregonStrosFan on July 31, 2012, 02:57:29 pm

That's a fair (and probably correct) guess. Thanks!

You should listen to him. He's pre-law.

moriartp · « **Reply #16 on:** July 31, 2012, 03:06:17 pm »

Quote from: AppyAstros on July 31, 2012, 01:58:41 pm

Astros pay all except the prorated major league minimum. It would be funny if Lunhow put a claim on him - get him back and then placed him on waivers again and work out a trade. The marlins would never trade with him again.

I'm completely on board with this idea. It would be hilarious.

astrosfan76 · « **Reply #17 on:** July 31, 2012, 06:09:37 pm »

In another dose of irony, the Marlins thought they had traded him to the Yankees today, but, you got it, Carlos blocked the trade.

Bench · « **Reply #18 on:** July 31, 2012, 06:11:05 pm »

Quote from: astrosfan76 on July 31, 2012, 06:09:37 pm

In another dose of irony, the Marlins thought they had traded him to the Yankees today, but, you got it, Carlos blocked the trade.

That's hilarious. And I guess that answer's OSF's question as well!

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #19 on:** July 31, 2012, 06:59:17 pm »

Quote from: astrosfan76 on July 31, 2012, 06:09:37 pm

In another dose of irony, the Marlins thought they had traded him to the Yankees today, but, you got it, Carlos blocked the trade.

Ha! Carlos Lee is like a bad penty: you can't seem to ever rid yourself of it. It serves those bastards right.

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #20 on:** July 31, 2012, 07:07:15 pm »

Carlos is baseball herpes

BizidyDizidy · « **Reply #21 on:** July 31, 2012, 07:12:29 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Happy on July 31, 2012, 06:59:17 pm

Ha! Carlos Lee is like a bad penty: you can't seem to ever rid yourself of it. It serves those bastards right.

Sad to see Happy is back on the bottle.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #22 on:** July 31, 2012, 07:53:09 pm »

Quote from: BizidyDizidy on July 31, 2012, 07:12:29 pm

Sad to see Happy is back on the bottle.

Bite your tongue, Biz. Nothing stronger than my constant pitcher of sweet tea for me. And I'm still nuts!

BizidyDizidy · « **Reply #23 on:** July 31, 2012, 08:00:35 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Happy on July 31, 2012, 07:53:09 pm

Bite your tongue, Biz. Nothing stronger than my constant pitcher of sweet tea for me. And I'm still nuts!

Why can't you rid yourself of a bad penny?

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #24 on:** July 31, 2012, 08:24:03 pm »

Quote from: BizidyDizidy on July 31, 2012, 08:00:35 pm

Why can't you rid yourself of a bad penny?

That's a game that I played with my boys when they were little in the swimming pool and say "bad penny"as I tossed them, where as fast as I'd .throw them, they'd swim right back and say "back again-y."There is an old addage that you can't get rid of a bad penny.

BizidyDizidy · « **Reply #25 on:** July 31, 2012, 08:33:13 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Happy on July 31, 2012, 08:24:03 pm

That's a game that I played with my boys when they were little in the swimming pool and say "bad penny"as I tossed them, where as fast as I'd .throw them, they'd swim right back and say "back again-y."There is an old addage that you can't get rid of a bad penny.

Sorry, was just giving you a hard time. A bad penny always turns up. Get it.

Bench · « **Reply #26 on:** July 31, 2012, 09:20:16 pm »

Quote from: BizidyDizidy on July 31, 2012, 08:33:13 pm

Sorry, was just giving you a hard time. A bad penny always turns up. Get it.

What exactly is a bad penny anyway?

BizidyDizidy · « **Reply #27 on:** July 31, 2012, 10:11:55 pm »

One you don't want to bet against on a coin toss

JimR · « **Reply #28 on:** August 01, 2012, 06:13:20 am »

I will never understand the villification of Carlos Lee on this board.

GreatBagwellsBeard · « **Reply #29 on:** August 01, 2012, 08:23:18 am »

Quote from: Bench on July 31, 2012, 09:20:16 pm

What exactly is a bad penny anyway?

Brad.

Ebby Calvin · « **Reply #30 on:** August 01, 2012, 08:30:50 am »

Quote from: JimR on August 01, 2012, 06:13:20 am

I will never understand the villification of Carlos Lee on this board.

Agreed.

Bench · « **Reply #31 on:** August 01, 2012, 09:42:39 am »

Quote from: JimR on August 01, 2012, 06:13:20 am

I will never understand the villification of Carlos Lee on this board.

The sad thing is that the vilification is much worse in the general public.

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #32 on:** August 01, 2012, 10:31:42 am »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weightism

chuck · « **Reply #33 on:** August 01, 2012, 10:39:48 am »

Quote from: JimR on August 01, 2012, 06:13:20 am

I will never understand the villification of Carlos Lee on this board.

Necks see a Mexican who's made a hundred million dollars playing baseball while they just got Bained off at the dirt factory and it pisses them off.

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #34 on:** August 01, 2012, 10:47:16 am »

Quote from: chuck on August 01, 2012, 10:39:48 am

Necks see a Mexican who's made a hundred million dollars playing baseball while they just got Bained off at the dirt factory and it pisses them off.

I think a lot people, in general, look for reasons to dislike people who "make too much money."

You add in fatness, and people start thinking he isn't working for his money. Same happened to Berkman, people thought since he appeared not in tip top shape, that he didn't care about his profession.

OregonStrosFan · « **Reply #35 on:** August 01, 2012, 11:03:33 am »

Quote from: chuck on August 01, 2012, 10:39:48 am

Necks see a Mexican who's made a hundred million dollars playing baseball while they just got Bained off at the dirt factory and it pisses them off.

Meh. Its not a neck'ism thingie, rather a perception thingie... IMO, the dislike of Carlos seemed to be rooted primarily in a couple of different areas:

*Reasonable previous performance-based expectations (for the team and him personally) and marketing-office hype (unrealized) vs. results (for the team and him personally);
*$100M was the biggest contract in team history - if he was gonna get paid more than Bagwell did in any contract, then he should have had better numbers than Bagwell ever did (again, a 'masses perception' thingie, not personal opinion based...);
*cause and effect of signing him to a $100M contract and (seemingly) resultently turning off the 'signing spigot' (e.g. 2007 draft, plus passed on some other 'reasonable' signings because of the $100M committed to Carlos); and
*dude just didn't 'appear' to give a shit, didn't hustle, etc...

ETA: Oh yeah, and he was 'fat' yet didn't hit for power...

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #36 on:** August 01, 2012, 11:47:09 am »

Quote from: JimR on August 01, 2012, 06:13:20 am

I will never understand the villification of Carlos Lee on this board.

I didn't so much villify Lee as express disgust when I thought that he wasn't hustling, which was more often to me than it should have been. However, as Lee's abilities declined, I actually started liking him more because he was still clearly having fun playing the game (after all, it is still a game) and because he appeared to be a bigger positive presence in the clubhouse. I was sad to see him go, but it's part of the game. I certainly didn't villify him for using his contractual right to veto the Dodgers trade. I merely pointed out that there were going to be some who would. The same thing happened to Ryan Dempster in Chicago with the ATL deal. Some idiot actually did so on the interwebs.

Randy Watson · « **Reply #37 on:** August 03, 2012, 08:55:39 am »

It was a dumb signing. Luke Scott could get on base and hit for power at a slightly lower rate, play a better left field, and cost $100 million less.

A professional athlete should stay in shape.

Duman · « **Reply #38 on:** August 03, 2012, 09:12:04 am »

Quote from: Randy Watson on August 03, 2012, 08:55:39 am

A professional athlete should stay in shape.

round is a shape

juliogotay · « **Reply #39 on:** August 03, 2012, 09:12:27 am »

Quote from: Randy Watson on August 03, 2012, 08:55:39 am

It was a dumb signing. Luke Scott could get on base and hit for power at a slightly lower rate, play a better left field, and cost $100 million less.

A professional athlete should stay in shape.

Lee was a proven RBI of 100 per year and the Astros, who under McLane, never entered a season they didn't expect to be champions (or put the illusion of it out there to fandom) desperately needed a middle-of-the-order RBI guy. Lee wanted to come to Houston which meant he jumped to the head of the class. Expecting Luke Scott to drive in 100 wasn't the answer either.

sporadic · « **Reply #40 on:** August 03, 2012, 09:15:13 am »

Quote from: Randy Watson on August 03, 2012, 08:55:39 am

It was a dumb signing. Luke Scott could get on base and hit for power at a slightly lower rate, play a better left field, and cost $100 million less.

A professional athlete should stay in shape.

for fucks sake, Carlos has driven in about 100 guys a year for the better part of a decade...this is the type of bullshit assessment about the guy that drives me fucking insane. Luke Scott is nowhere near the addition to a team as Carlos was (or is). Lots of MLB'ers have played, and produced, being heavy. And for the last time, other than running over the occasional shortstop, Carlos was never a liability in the field. He was a good fit for LF in Houston. Fuck.

jbm · « **Reply #41 on:** August 03, 2012, 09:40:43 am »

Not having Luke Scott was a blessing through these years. Imagine watching this crappy team and having to look at that stupid mug every day.

JimR · « **Reply #42 on:** August 03, 2012, 09:59:45 am »

Quote from: Randy Watson on August 03, 2012, 08:55:39 am

It was a dumb signing. Luke Scott could get on base and hit for power at a slightly lower rate, play a better left field, and cost $100 million less.

A professional athlete should stay in shape.

this is a world-class stupid post. congrats.

Waldo · « **Reply #43 on:** August 03, 2012, 10:15:33 am »

Quote from: Randy Watson on August 03, 2012, 08:55:39 am

It was a dumb signing. Luke Scott could get on base and hit for power at a slightly lower rate, play a better left field, and cost $100 million less.

A professional athlete should stay in shape.

Luke Scott was also batshit crazy.

NeilT · « **Reply #44 on:** August 03, 2012, 10:35:05 am »

Quote from: Waldo on August 03, 2012, 10:15:33 am

Luke Scott was also batshit crazy.

Was?

BizidyDizidy · « **Reply #45 on:** August 03, 2012, 10:38:47 am »

Quote from: NeilT on August 03, 2012, 10:35:05 am

Was?

Who doesn't like a little gunplay

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #46 on:** August 03, 2012, 10:43:10 am »

Quote from: sporadic on August 03, 2012, 09:15:13 am

for fucks sake, Carlos has driven in about 100 guys a year for the better part of a decade...this is the type of bullshit assessment about the guy that drives me fucking insane. Luke Scott is nowhere near the addition to a team as Carlos was (or is). Lots of MLB'ers have played, and produced, being heavy. And for the last time, other than running over the occasional shortstop, Carlos was never a liability in the field. He was a good fit for LF in Houston. Fuck.

Carlos was ok in LF the first couple seasons, after that he was dreadful. Of course he shouldn't have been playing there any longer, which wasn't his fault. Once he moved to 1st, he proved himself to be a more than capable fielder.

jbm · « **Reply #47 on:** August 03, 2012, 10:45:00 am »

I never remember him being dreadful, or even a liability in left. Not swift afoot, but made the plays.

sporadic · « **Reply #48 on:** August 03, 2012, 11:00:07 am »

Quote from: Navin R Johnson on August 03, 2012, 10:43:10 am

Carlos was ok in LF the first couple seasons, after that he was dreadful. Of course he shouldn't have been playing there any longer, which wasn't his fault. Once he moved to 1st, he proved himself to be a more than capable fielder.

I think you are confusing the lack of range with being dreadful. Hunter Pence is dreadful. Actually, I though Carlos read the ball off the bat quite well and his effective range was much better than his footspeed would indicate.

Noe · « **Reply #49 on:** August 03, 2012, 11:06:08 am »

Quote from: Waldo on August 03, 2012, 10:15:33 am

Luke Scott was also batshit crazy.

And a clubhouse cancer. His mouth and attitude got him out of Houston more than anything else.

Navin R Johnson · « **Reply #50 on:** August 03, 2012, 11:16:53 am »

Quote from: sporadic on August 03, 2012, 11:00:07 am

I think you are confusing the lack of range with being dreadful. Hunter Pence is dreadful. Actually, I though Carlos read the ball off the bat quite well and his effective range was much better than his footspeed would indicate.

So you are saying he was slow, but amongst plodding outfielders he was OK. Sure. He used to let balls get by him down the line, used to kick the ball around off the wall, careen into shortstops, etc... By 09, in terms of fielding, he was in the bottom 3 of regular LFs in NL.

Once he got moved to 1st, I thought he played well to really well defensively.

chuck · « **Reply #51 on:** August 03, 2012, 11:32:48 am »

Quote from: sporadic on August 03, 2012, 09:15:13 am

for fucks sake, Carlos has driven in about 100 guys a year for the better part of a decade...this is the type of bullshit assessment about the guy that drives me fucking insane. Luke Scott is nowhere near the addition to a team as Carlos was (or is). Lots of MLB'ers have played, and produced, being heavy. And for the last time, other than running over the occasional shortstop, Carlos was never a liability in the field. He was a good fit for LF in Houston. Fuck.

Someone should sticky this.

Ty in Tampa · « **Reply #52 on:** August 03, 2012, 11:55:28 am »

Quote from: chuck on August 03, 2012, 11:32:48 am

Someone should sticky this.

With maple syrup perhaps?

subnuclear · « **Reply #53 on:** August 03, 2012, 12:11:17 pm »

I liked Lee, but the 2006-2009 Astros had too many big veteran contracts and not enough players coming up from the farm. Unlike Berkman and Oswalt, he didn't come up as an Astro and it made his contract stand out as a target for bitching.

I guess you can speculate what would have happened had they not signed Lee and tried and do something else with his salary, but I'm not sure McLane would have spent the money any other way.

jaklewein · « **Reply #54 on:** August 03, 2012, 12:50:53 pm »

Carlos vs. Luke? Carlos as a LF? Why are we going in either direction? Niether matters. Let's whack the hijackers of this thread and get it back on point:

Bravo, Mr. Luhnow!

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #55 on:** August 03, 2012, 01:42:15 pm »

Quote from: juliogotay on August 03, 2012, 09:12:27 am

Lee was a proven RBI of 100 per year and the Astros, who under McLane, never entered a season they didn't expect to be champions (or put the illusion of it out there to fandom) desperately needed a middle-of-the-order RBI guy. Lee wanted to come to Houston which meant he jumped to the head of the class. Expecting Luke Scott to drive in 100 wasn't the answer either.

Exactly. My only problem with the Lee signing was the length of the deal. I could have quibbled with the amount per year, but that seemed to have been the going rate at the time. The contract should have been for three years, even at a slightly higher salary.

moriartp · « **Reply #56 on:** August 03, 2012, 04:41:56 pm »

Quote from: Mr. Happy on August 03, 2012, 01:42:15 pm

Exactly. My only problem with the Lee signing was the length of the deal. I could have quibbled with the amount per year, but that seemed to have been the going rate at the time. The contract should have been for three years, even at a slightly higher salary.

Alfonso Soriano got eight years that offseason, so perhaps we should consider ourselves lucky.

Mr. Happy · « **Reply #57 on:** August 03, 2012, 04:53:21 pm »

Quote from: moriartp on August 03, 2012, 04:41:56 pm

Alfonso Soriano got eight years that offseason, so perhaps we should consider ourselves lucky.

Amen to that! Lee at least produced comparable career numbers for us in the first three seasons. Soriano hasn't come close to duplicating what he did earlier in his career that earned him all those years and all that money.

Lefty · « **Reply #58 on:** August 03, 2012, 09:43:28 pm »

Quote from: Randy Watson on August 03, 2012, 08:55:39 am

A professional athlete should stay in shape.

Luke Scott managed to play all of 191 games in the OF in his 5-year post-Astros career.

94CougarGrad · « **Reply #59 on:** August 06, 2012, 01:11:46 pm »

Quote from: Ty in Tampa on August 03, 2012, 11:55:28 am

With maple syrup perhaps?

Jelly doughnuts.

/gunnyermey

Author Topic: Bravo, Mr. Luhnow. (Read 10314 times)

Noe