Author Topic: Opening Day Starter  (Read 13977 times)

EasTexAstro

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Opening Day Starter
« on: March 18, 2011, 10:20:09 am »
What? No one else is going to post this?

Brett Myers is the opening day starter.
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Limey

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2011, 03:25:54 pm »
Also, Wallace is confirmed as the everyday first baseman.  From what I saw last weekend, his is one of the few bats that are ready.  Even his outs were hit off the screws.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2011, 03:38:23 pm »
Wallace went 2-4 today with a double, a rib and a run.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2011, 05:22:38 pm »
Myers was the logical choice for his work from last season. I'm so glad that Wallace is hitting. I'm really pulling for him.
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matadorph

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2011, 02:12:13 pm »
The Hyphen is likely out of the running for the fifth starter spot, according to McTaggart.

So, Lyles or Figueroa? Figueroa went five full today vs Atl, allowed 6 H, 3R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 3K. Lyles' line against the Pirates: 3.2 IP, 2 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 0 BB, 4 K

Both have pitched well this spring. Color me excited for OD.

austro

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2011, 02:32:19 pm »
If Figueroa is doing an adequate job, I think he'll get the 5th spot and Lyles will get some more time in AAA. Lyles comes up if/when the first injury occurs.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2011, 03:33:29 pm »
Humberto Quintero on Lyles: "I’m surprised and excited because I’ve never seen a 20-year-old throw fastballs and breaking balls like that.”

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Ty in Tampa

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2011, 05:36:17 pm »
Lyles did look good today. His run was a wind-fucked-with fly to left center that by where we sat, looked to be LF catchable. I don't know whether that earns #5 but right now, it looks like Fig's to lose.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2011, 05:38:25 pm »
I think you and Austro are right, it's Figgy's slot and Lyles gets a little time in AAA until the first starter needs a break.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2011, 05:51:00 pm »
I think you and Austro are right, it's Figgy's slot and Lyles gets a little time in AAA until the first starter needs a break.
Ok, that's settled then. Now we just need to figure out:

1. Catcher #1 and Catcher #2
2. 5th OF
3. Backup IF. Kepp's on the DL, so does that mean Manzella and Matt Downs to start the season?
4. Bullpen. Lyon, Lopez, Abad, uh... Melancon? Fulchino? A-Rod? Rowland-Smith? Del Rosario? Villar? I'm a little lost as to who's got spots locked up.
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Ron Brand

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2011, 05:58:00 pm »
Ok, that's settled then. Now we just need to figure out:

1. Catcher #1 and Catcher #2
2. 5th OF
3. Backup IF. Kepp's on the DL, so does that mean Manzella and Matt Downs to start the season?
4. Bullpen. Lyon, Lopez, Abad, uh... Melancon? Fulchino? A-Rod? Rowland-Smith? Del Rosario? Villar? I'm a little lost as to who's got spots locked up.

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jbm

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2011, 06:15:11 pm »
Unless he falters, gotta think Del Rosario is in. Based on the one outing I saw, his general success isn't fluky.   

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2011, 06:21:56 pm »
Unless he falters, gotta think Del Rosario is in. Based on the one outing I saw, his general success isn't fluky.  
I don't know anything about him. They got him in some deal with the Reds last year? What's his story?

edit: OK, they got him for cash, back in September.
Quote
Over 50 appearances at Triple-A Louisville, Del Rosario was 4-4 with a 3.09 ERA. He made nine relief appearances for the Reds from May 24-June 13 and had a 2.08 ERA, but allowed seven of his nine inherited runners to score.

Here's his BB-Ref page. So, he was shaky in 10 MLB games last year (2 with the Astros, which I missed), but has very solid numbers in the minors; doesn't strike out a ton of guys, but didn't walk many either, and only 1 HR per 18 innings. Cool, here's hoping he's the new Arias (minus the shoulder problems).
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 06:51:24 pm by Reuben »
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2011, 06:50:32 pm »
Baseball reference says the Astros purchased him from the Reds.

The one inning I saw, he threw a lot of low 90s fastballs with really good sink. Nothing special, but looked as if he could adequately fill one of those open spots. I also think Melancon will make the club. He at least has pretty good stuff.

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2011, 06:57:18 pm »
1. Q and Mr. March
2. Boojwah for now

So no LH bat on the bench?
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austro

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2011, 07:01:10 pm »
That's why I think Bogusevic is going to make it.
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Ron Brand

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2011, 07:04:01 pm »
So no LH bat on the bench?

Yeah. It hurts, and maybe they do something else about it, but Bogusevic hasn't had a good spring and Boojwah has. No LH hitting backup has.
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chuck

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2011, 07:09:12 pm »
That's why I think Bogusevic is going to make it.

No way.
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austro

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2011, 07:17:05 pm »
No way.

Has he looked that awful?
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moriartp

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2011, 07:21:52 pm »
The lack of a bench lefty would be pretty low on the list of this roster's problems. Better to have OF5 be someone who can play good defense and hopefully give you a quality AB every time out, regardless of handedness. That looks more like Bourgeois right now.

Of anyone who can hit from the left side, I'd bet that Anderson Hernandez has the best chance of making the roster right now. And that's a longshot.

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2011, 07:51:57 pm »
The lack of a bench lefty would be pretty low on the list of this roster's problems. Better to have OF5 be someone who can play good defense and hopefully give you a quality AB every time out, regardless of handedness. That looks more like Bourgeois right now.

Of anyone who can hit from the left side, I'd bet that Anderson Hernandez has the best chance of making the roster right now. And that's a longshot.
And really, Michaels will probably be their best bench hitter, by far, vs. righties or lefties. Maybe they'll pick some LHB off the scrap heap right before the season starts, though.
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chuck

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2011, 08:06:30 pm »
Has he looked that awful?

Yes.

The lack of a bench lefty would be pretty low on the list of this roster's problems. Better to have OF5 be someone who can play good defense and hopefully give you a quality AB every time out, regardless of handedness. That looks more like Bourgeois right now.

Yes.

Of anyone who can hit from the left side, I'd bet that Anderson Hernandez has the best chance of making the roster right now. And that's a longshot.

Yes.

I realize that catchers don't make pinch hitters but the more I watch the more I think they may take the switch hitting Corporan over Moe Bandy.
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Ron Brand

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2011, 08:10:54 pm »
I realize that catchers don't make pinch hitters but the more I watch the more I think they may take the switch hitting Corporan over Moe Bandy.

That really is a tough one, although Towles has been hitting (again!) very well and Corporan is glacial. Whichever one loses goes to AAA and would just be a step away though.
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austro

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2011, 08:14:10 pm »
That really is a tough one, although Towles has been hitting (again!) very well and Corporan is glacial. Whichever one loses goes to AAA and would just be a step away though.

I was watching the Cards game yesterday and somebody hit a chopper over the mound that took approximately a year and a day to get into the shortstop's glove, and when he went ahead and threw to first I chuckled to myself. Imagine my surprise when the throw beat the runner by half a step. The runner? Corporan.
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Ron Brand

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2011, 08:16:00 pm »
Yeah, I saw that too. As they were taking all day to get to the ball and throw it to first, I was expecting Corporan to be at least a step behind.

And that step will be from Oklahoma City to Houston.
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austro

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2011, 08:22:20 pm »
And that step will be from Oklahoma City to Houston.

It will take him weeks to get there.
I remember all the good times me 'n Miller enjoyed
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2011, 10:05:12 pm »
I'm going to be sappy and say that I love reading well-reasoned arguments about the 12th man in the bullpen and the left handed bat off the bench.  It truly is almost opening day.

I'm with the Melancon, hyhpen, Del Rosario in the pen, Boourgeious on the bench crowd.
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astrosfan76

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2011, 08:06:00 am »
It's all over except for the official announcement:

Quote
The Astros trimmed their spring roster by seven players Monday morning, with the most notable player on the list being top prospect Jordan Lyles, who had a 1.98 ERA in 13 2/3 innings and appeared to be one of the favorites for the fifth starter's job.

While we await explanation from Astros management about its decision to reassign Lyles to Minor League camp, the move likely means Nelson Figueroa has won the fifth starter's job. Manager Brad Mills said Sunday Ryan Rowland-Smith was out of the running for the starting spot, and the two Rule 5 candidates haven't gotten many innings lately.

The other six sent down include:  Escalona, Urckfitz, F-Rod, Fien, Locke, and Steele. 

http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/archives/2011/03/lyles-amoung-7-cut-by-the-astros-on-monday.html


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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2011, 10:05:52 am »
I guess Shuck might have a legitimate shot to make the roster. There would be your lefty OF5.

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2011, 11:13:41 am »
I guess Shuck might have a legitimate shot to make the roster. There would be your lefty OF5.

Gives some insight to what they see his ceiling as, if that's the case.

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2011, 11:17:24 am »
I see that the steM released Oliver Perez this morning. Who's gonna give him a look-see?
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2011, 11:18:16 am »
I see that the steM released Oliver Perez this morning. Who's gonna give him a look-see?

McDonalds.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2011, 11:23:40 am »
A 30 year old lefty starter who is available for the league minimum will attract a lot of action.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2011, 11:27:11 am »
A 30 year old lefty starter who is available for the league minimum will attract a lot of action.

In the last two years, he has a 6.82 ERA, more walks than strikeouts, a HR every 5 innings... he's toast.  The Mets are flat broke and gave up on the guy.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2011, 11:31:33 am »
In the last two years, he has a 6.82 ERA, more walks than strikeouts, a HR every 5 innings... he's toast.  The Mets are flat broke and gave up on the guy.
I agree. Please God, no Oliver Perez.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2011, 11:36:06 am »
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2011, 11:42:48 am »
Fearless predictions:

1. Myers, Wandy and Happ will be good at pitching the baseball

2. Figueroa will be adequate to very adequate

3. Lyles will be up by June/July to replace Norris, not Figueroa

4. Someone will get injured and fuck up at least one of the previous three
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2011, 11:53:50 am »
Fearless predictions:

3. Lyles will be up by June/July to replace Norris, not Figueroa

To replace Norris in the rotation or on the 25-man?

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2011, 12:20:10 pm »
Fearless predictions:

1. Myers, Wandy and Happ will be good at pitching the baseball

2. Figueroa will be adequate to very adequate

3. Lyles will be up by June/July to replace Norris, not Figueroa

4. Someone will get injured and fuck up at least one of the previous three
I agree with these. I said it several times last season: I think that Norris is better suited for the bullpen where he can rare back and bring it and not have to worry about eating innings.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2011, 12:20:46 pm »
It wouldn't surprise me if Norris pitched his way out of the rotation. More surprising would be the other starters all staying healthy enough to allow such a move. Of course, Bud could have a breakout season and further prove that I have no business prognosticating.

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2011, 12:21:30 pm »
In the last two years, he has a 6.82 ERA, more walks than strikeouts, a HR every 5 innings... he's toast.  The Mets are flat broke and gave up on the guy.

I wasn't suggesting that we take a flyer on him. I was merely saying that someone will.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2011, 12:22:13 pm »
Fearless predictions:

1. Myers, Wandy and Happ will be good at pitching the baseball

2. Figueroa will be adequate to very adequate

3. Lyles will be up by June/July to replace Norris, not Figueroa

4. Someone will get injured and fuck up at least one of the previous three
Lyles will be up by June in an attempt to jump-start attendance, you mean. Besides the fact that it makes all the future $ sense and developmental sense not to rush him past AAA, there's no reason to bring him up to start the year, when there's still some New Season fanbase excitement. Once that wears off, and unless this offense really overperforms, a callup of Exciting Young Prospect Jordan Lyles will be just what the FO wants.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #42 on: March 21, 2011, 12:31:44 pm »
Lyles will be up by June in an attempt to jump-start attendance, you mean. Besides the fact that it makes all the future $ sense and developmental sense not to rush him past AAA, there's no reason to bring him up to start the year, when there's still some New Season fanbase excitement. Once that wears off, and unless this offense really overperforms, a callup of Exciting Young Prospect Jordan Lyles will be just what the FO wants.

/Pam Gardner/I love you!/Pam Gardner
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #43 on: March 21, 2011, 12:43:26 pm »
/Pam Gardner/I love you!/Pam Gardner
Wow. That's quite a confession there, Hap. But whatever turns you on.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2011, 12:46:24 pm »
Wow. That's quite a confession there, Hap. But whatever turns you on.

JCIII: You misunderstood. It was Pam expressing her love for the marketing angle of bringing Lyles up in June.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2011, 02:51:24 pm »
Lyles will be up by June in an attempt to jump-start attendance, you mean. Besides the fact that it makes all the future $ sense and developmental sense not to rush him past AAA, there's no reason to bring him up to start the year, when there's still some New Season fanbase excitement. Once that wears off, and unless this offense really overperforms, a callup of Exciting Young Prospect Jordan Lyles will be just what the FO wants.
\

Based on the hints that he was a possible call up last year, and a possible starter this year, I suspect that there is someone within the org who thinks that he is as good an option as they have, gives them the best chance to compete and will not be set back by taking lumps at the major league level.  I'm talking about a baseball person, not Pam or Drayton.

Personally, I don't know the kid, so I have no opinion on the risk of "bringing him up to soon."  However, not everyone is set back by challenges and failures.  For some people, the challenge may well hasten their progress, rather than retard it. 

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2011, 03:31:42 pm »
For some people, the challenge may well hasten their progress, rather than retard it. 

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #47 on: March 21, 2011, 09:06:02 pm »
I wasn't suggesting that we take a flyer on him. I was merely saying that someone will.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

ETA: You were right.  I guess the saying should be "No one ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the Yankees"
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2011, 09:31:51 pm »
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

ETA: You were right.  I guess the saying should be "No one ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the Yankees"

Look at the talentless portsiders who are still in the game. I knew that some club or clubs would go after a 30 year old lefty. Some pitching coach has a big job trying to make chicken out of chickenshit.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2011, 09:17:32 am »
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

ETA: You were right.  I guess the saying should be "No one ever went broke overestimating the stupidity of the Yankees"

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2011, 08:50:06 pm »
The Rays stole 4 bases off of Towles today. Maybe Norris wasn't helping him much, but he's now 0-for-11 on the spring throwing out basestealers. Corporan and Esposito haven't been much better.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #51 on: March 24, 2011, 09:14:13 pm »
The Rays stole 4 bases off of Towles today. Maybe Norris wasn't helping him much, but he's now 0-for-11 on the spring throwing out basestealers. Corporan and Esposito haven't been much better.

[Towles/But I'm a hitting machine![Towles]

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #52 on: March 24, 2011, 09:21:47 pm »
I told y'all that playing off the backstop is just as good.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #53 on: March 24, 2011, 09:59:29 pm »
The Rays stole 4 bases off of Towles today. Maybe Norris wasn't helping him much, but he's now 0-for-11 on the spring throwing out basestealers. Corporan and Esposito haven't been much better.

Norris does not slide-step. He maintains his high leg kick in the stretch. Most of those bases were stolen off of Norris but Towles nevertheless is terrible throwing out runners. I've been complaining about the infuriating hitch in his throw since the first time I saw him. The idea that Moe Bandy is going to be an opening day member of the Houston Astros is a painful indictment of how bad this organization's depth is at many key positions. Think about all of the touted outfield "prospects." Steele, Shuck, Bogusevic, Gaston, Locke... None of them has a major league career in their future. Martinez does, but as a DH. I certainly hope that 15 year old Dominican kid can play. Fuck.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #54 on: March 24, 2011, 10:11:26 pm »
Norris does not slide-step. He maintains his high leg kick in the stretch. Most of those bases were stolen off of Norris but Towles nevertheless is terrible throwing out runners. I've been complaining about the infuriating hitch in his throw since the first time I saw him. The idea that Moe Bandy is going to be an opening day member of the Houston Astros is a painful indictment of how bad this organization's depth is at many key positions. Think about all of the touted outfield "prospects." Steele, Shuck, Bogusevic, Gaston, Locke... None of them has a major league career in their future. Martinez does, but as a DH. I certainly hope that 15 year old Dominican kid can play. Fuck.

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #55 on: March 24, 2011, 10:45:43 pm »
I don't think any of those outfielders were really considered prospects. Shuck as a reserve maybe.

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #56 on: March 24, 2011, 10:48:57 pm »
Norris does not slide-step. He maintains his high leg kick in the stretch. Most of those bases were stolen off of Norris but Towles nevertheless is terrible throwing out runners. I've been complaining about the infuriating hitch in his throw since the first time I saw him. The idea that Moe Bandy is going to be an opening day member of the Houston Astros is a painful indictment of how bad this organization's depth is at many key positions. Think about all of the touted outfield "prospects." Steele, Shuck, Bogusevic, Gaston, Locke... None of them has a major league career in their future. Martinez does, but as a DH. I certainly hope that 15 year old Dominican kid can play. Fuck.
Dude! You forgot about Koby. Koby is the Future. Koby and Pence.

Perhaps Q will end up being the starter after all. I wonder what the MLB record for catcher pickoffs in a season is...?
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #57 on: March 24, 2011, 10:52:08 pm »
I don't think any of those outfielders were really considered prospects.

Then they don't have any.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2011, 11:08:16 pm »
Norris does not slide-step. He maintains his high leg kick in the stretch. Most of those bases were stolen off of Norris but Towles nevertheless is terrible throwing out runners. I've been complaining about the infuriating hitch in his throw since the first time I saw him. The idea that Moe Bandy is going to be an opening day member of the Houston Astros is a painful indictment of how bad this organization's depth is at many key positions. Think about all of the touted outfield "prospects." Steele, Shuck, Bogusevic, Gaston, Locke... None of them has a major league career in their future. Martinez does, but as a DH. I certainly hope that 15 year old Dominican kid can play. Fuck.

Now hold on here. Did this just sneak up on you? Do you remember how fucking barren the farm system was four years ago? They've done what they could with what they had, coupled with an owner who wasn't interested in rebuilding anything. Yes, there are a lot of holes and not much depth at all but they have made some pretty nice strides over the last two years.

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #59 on: March 24, 2011, 11:16:01 pm »
Then they don't have any.

You might be right, but I get the impression that names like Martinez, Austin, Wates, Nash (I may have missed some others) are all thought to be better prospects than Gaston, Shuck and Steele.

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #60 on: March 25, 2011, 09:28:36 am »
You might be right, but I get the impression that names like Martinez, Austin, Wates, Nash (I may have missed some others) are all thought to be better prospects than Gaston, Shuck and Steele.

I don't believe that Heck et al. have drafted a real impact player yet. But give them some time because it is tough to come across and get a Buster Posey or Stephen Strasburg or even David Price.
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Opening Day Starter
« Reply #61 on: March 25, 2011, 09:31:19 am »
It's night time, but we aren't in Pittsburgh.

No, but we're in Steubenville headed east.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2011, 09:55:43 am »
Opening Day Closer (for Phils) won't be Lidge
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2011, 10:06:49 am »
No, but we're in Steubenville headed east.

I was thinking Wheeling, but yeah, somewhere in that area.

As I've said elsewhere I've seen too many spring games to think that what you see in March will translate into April and beyond but I will admit to moments of existential crisis this spring where I can convince myself that this is finally the year that the Pirates finish on top of the Astros.

Yesterday was my mom's first ever game at Osceola. As we were leaving she said, Well, the Astros will be pretty good if they get better at hitting and pitching... and fielding.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #64 on: March 25, 2011, 10:42:56 am »

I will admit to moments of existential crisis this spring where I can convince myself that this is finally the year that the Pirates finish on top of the Astros.


That is absolutely possible. They have some ridiculous young talent on that club.

I still think that despite what is painfully obvious to us all about the overall talent level of the organization, the Astros are headed in the right direction and are better off than they were. I wish it would come faster and maybe there will be more lightning to catch in the bottle this year.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #65 on: March 25, 2011, 10:43:55 am »
I don't believe that Heck et al. have drafted a real impact player yet. But give them some time because it is tough to come across and get a Buster Posey or Stephen Strasburg or even David Price.

Ahem, they have a 20 year old pitcher making a case for the starting rotation.  Castro is no dog either.  

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #66 on: March 25, 2011, 10:55:10 am »
Ahem, they have a 20 year old pitcher making a case for the starting rotation.  Castro is no dog either.  

Wallace is a legit hitter, with the physique to develop greater power as he matures.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #67 on: March 25, 2011, 11:09:54 am »
Wallace is a legit hitter, with the physique to develop greater power as he matures.

I think Wallace is for real also, but Heck didn't draft him.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #68 on: March 25, 2011, 11:09:55 am »
As I've said elsewhere I've seen too many spring games to think that what you see in March will translate into April and beyond but I will admit to moments of existential crisis this spring where I can convince myself that this is finally the year that the Pirates finish on top of the Astros.

None of that Pirate talent can pitch.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #69 on: March 25, 2011, 11:13:47 am »
Ahem, they have a 20 year old pitcher making a case for the starting rotation.  Castro is no dog either.  

But is Lyles a real impact player yet? I don't think so. As for Castro, maybe we're watching two different ballplayers. I haven't seen real hitting out of him yet. He ain't no Buster Posey, and, in my opinion, he never will be.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #70 on: March 25, 2011, 11:19:45 am »
There's an article floating out there somewhere evaluating the Pirates vs the Astros in the battle for last place.  Apparently, Pirates fans are very excited about this being the year (that they top the Astros, at least)
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #71 on: March 25, 2011, 11:22:35 am »
I think Wallace is for real also, but Heck didn't draft him.

I don't care who the Heck fuck drafted him.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #72 on: March 25, 2011, 11:23:26 am »
But is Lyles a real impact player yet? I don't think so. As for Castro, maybe we're watching two different ballplayers. I haven't seen real hitting out of him yet. He ain't no Buster Posey, and, in my opinion, he never will be.

Dunno about Castro yet - this was a year for him to make a big move - but in terms of Wade/Heck drafting an impact player the Lyles class is the first one you could really say they had a chance to do that in. I'd say a 20 year old guy who is knocking on the door of the starting rotation has all the signs of being an impact player but no, we aren't going to know until he gets those starts. There is no shortage of positive assessments of his future, and if he projects as even a #3 starter that is impact in my book.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #73 on: March 25, 2011, 11:23:56 am »
But is Lyles a real impact player yet? I don't think so. As for Castro, maybe we're watching two different ballplayers. I haven't seen real hitting out of him yet. He ain't no Buster Posey, and, in my opinion, he never will be.

He will become known as "Officer Castro" at some point in his major league career.  He won't need to hit that much.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #74 on: March 25, 2011, 11:24:59 am »
There's an article floating out there somewhere evaluating the Pirates vs the Astros in the battle for last place.  Apparently, Pirates fans are very excited about this being the year (that they top the Astros, at least)

For some reason, I am reminded of a documentary about the famine in Ethiopia.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #75 on: March 25, 2011, 11:28:48 am »
For some reason, I am reminded of a documentary about the famine in Ethiopia.

The one where they discover a stray bag of rice and declare, "More food than Eritrea!"
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #76 on: March 25, 2011, 11:35:57 am »
Opening Day Closer (for Phils) won't be Lidge
There's a link to a Stark article on that page that says "Hurdle ready to overcome obstacles," which I thought was pretty brilliant. For some reason, once I clicked on it, the actual article had a different, non-pun headline.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #77 on: March 25, 2011, 11:36:43 am »
Dunno about Castro yet - this was a year for him to make a big move - but in terms of Wade/Heck drafting an impact player the Lyles class is the first one you could really say they had a chance to do that in. I'd say a 20 year old guy who is knocking on the door of the starting rotation has all the signs of being an impact player but no, we aren't going to know until he gets those starts. There is no shortage of positive assessments of his future, and if he projects as even a #3 starter that is impact in my book.

Maybe I am being too hard on Lyles. His stuff is not overwhelming like Strasburg's or Price's. But I do agree that with his age, he could make a real impact soon. However, doesn't that simply provide a testament to the paucity of starting pitching talent in the org. at present? We've got some guys in the lower minors that might be impact players, but again, none of them are on a fast track MLB ready immediately like both Strasburg and Price were.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #78 on: March 25, 2011, 11:38:42 am »
Maybe I am being too hard on Lyles.

He's an Astros pitcher.  Of course you are.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #79 on: March 25, 2011, 11:43:25 am »
He's an Astros pitcher.  Of course you are.

I hear you, EC!!!
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #80 on: March 25, 2011, 11:44:49 am »
I don't believe that Heck et al. have drafted a real impact player yet. But give them some time because it is tough to come across and get a Buster Posey or Stephen Strasburg or even David Price.
Well, to state the obvious, players like Strasburg and even Price don't come along very often. But, you (and Chuck) may have a point about a lack of "blue-chip" prospects being brought in by Wade/Heck. They have focused on athletic, up-the-middle players, and projectable HS pitchers each of the 3 drafts they've overseen, and those type players could pay off down the road but they're probably not going to be #1 starters or #4 hitters.

It's also possible that McLane was still reluctant to really loosen the purse strings for the draft/development for a couple years. Getting Ovando for $2.6 mil or whatever may have signaled a change there. Another theory I have is that Wade/Heck feel that it's easier to pick up FAs who can hit for power (and the Astros are capable of spending money on FAs, let's not forget), but that the fast, athletic up-the-middle guys, and of course pitching, you need to draft and develop. I don't know.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #81 on: March 25, 2011, 11:46:03 am »
Maybe I am being too hard on Lyles. His stuff is not overwhelming like Strasburg's or Price's. But I do agree that with his age, he could make a real impact soon. However, doesn't that simply provide a testament to the paucity of starting pitching talent in the org. at present? We've got some guys in the lower minors that might be impact players, but again, none of them are on a fast track MLB ready immediately like both Strasburg and Price were.

I think we're all clear on how thin the minors are right now. My point is that they're finally working on it and as much as we'd like for it to take less time, the fact is that it's going to be a while yet. All those trades on top of the Purpura years and the difficulty in getting Drayton to listen to his baseball people has come home to roost, but he should also be congratulated for finally letting his baseball people carry through with what needs to be done.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #82 on: March 25, 2011, 11:51:15 am »
I think we're all clear on how thin the minors are right now. My point is that they're finally working on it and as much as we'd like for it to take less time, the fact is that it's going to be a while yet. All those trades on top of the Purpura years and the difficulty in getting Drayton to listen to his baseball people has come home to roost, but he should also be congratulated for finally letting his baseball people carry through with what needs to be done.

I agree. The Grocer needs to let baseball people make baseball decisions. It's tempting for an owner to tinker with baseball and justify it with the lame "it's my money" argument. However, my retort to that has always been: Yes, it is you money, so why aren't you taking better care of it? The owner needs to let loose of the purse strings a little when the baseball people say to go over slot, the fucking commissioner be damned.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #83 on: March 25, 2011, 11:56:09 am »
I think we're all clear on how thin the minors are right now. My point is that they're finally working on it and as much as we'd like for it to take less time, the fact is that it's going to be a while yet. All those trades on top of the Purpura years and the difficulty in getting Drayton to listen to his baseball people has come home to roost, but he should also be congratulated for finally letting his baseball people carry through with what needs to be done.
Also, while I'm sure 10 years from now we can look back and go "oh look, they passed over Joe McBigswing, the greatest 3B in baseball, when they could've picked him #10 in 2008;" there's always hindsight guys like that, but it's not like they've had the #1 or #2 overall pick and fucked up. Once you get down to #10 or #8 overall, there aren't too many "sure things" to be had. The draft is 90% crapshoot.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #84 on: March 25, 2011, 12:11:08 pm »
Maybe I am being too hard on Lyles. His stuff is not overwhelming like Strasburg's or Price's. But I do agree that with his age, he could make a real impact soon. However, doesn't that simply provide a testament to the paucity of starting pitching talent in the org. at present? We've got some guys in the lower minors that might be impact players, but again, none of them are on a fast track MLB ready immediately like both Strasburg and Price were.

You need one of the top picks to get a Price or Strasburg. Thankfully, the Astros don't have those.

As to the basic claim, we won't know how Wade/Heck has done for a number of years yet, but I see no signs that they don't know what they are doing.

I'd take even money all day long that the Astros won't fall lower than the fucking Pirates

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #85 on: March 25, 2011, 12:18:23 pm »
As to the basic claim, we won't know how Wade/Heck has done for a number of years yet, but I see no signs that they don't know what they are doing.

I'd take even money all day long that the Astros won't fall lower than the fucking Pirates

I don't think that either Chuck or I have made any noises about Wade/Heck not knowing what they're doing. In fact, I said that they needed more time because I have significant confidence in them.

As far as where we finish vis-a-vis the Piroots this season, I really don't care. I'd obviously like for us to finish higher than every team in the division. However, I just want to see some improvement on the field, even if we don't win as many games as we did last year. As long as there is demonstrable improvement, I'll be very happy. Oh wait, I already am!
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #86 on: March 25, 2011, 12:29:50 pm »
Well, to state the obvious, players like Strasburg and even Price don't come along very often. But, you (and Chuck) may have a point about a lack of "blue-chip" prospects being brought in by Wade/Heck. They have focused on athletic, up-the-middle players, and projectable HS pitchers each of the 3 drafts they've overseen, and those type players could pay off down the road but they're probably not going to be #1 starters or #4 hitters.

Also, while I'm sure 10 years from now we can look back and go "oh look, they passed over Joe McBigswing, the greatest 3B in baseball, when they could've picked him #10 in 2008;" there's always hindsight guys like that, but it's not like they've had the #1 or #2 overall pick and fucked up. Once you get down to #10 or #8 overall, there aren't too many "sure things" to be had. The draft is 90% crapshoot.

You're right.  It's hard to find impact players from the college ranks, especially when you don't have a top-5 pick.  This year might be an aberration, but generally guys like Tulowitzki, Longoria, Price, etc are going to be taken well before we get a crack at them.  Instead, they've focused on athletes, which were almost non-existent in the system prior to Heck.  

I think part of the discussion revolves around what defines an "impact" player.  To me, an impact player is someone who changes the game with some aspect of their play.  AE was an impact defensive player, Bourn is an impact CF and baserunner, Bagwell and Biggio were impact players in the mid-late 90's, etc.  They could do things that other players couldn't.  When you look at guys like Castro, I think he could develop into a good MLB catcher, but his skills are more solid across the board than game-changing.  

When it comes to pitchers, I see an impact pitcher as a pitcher who can shut down the other team on any given night.  In recent years, Oswalt, Lidge, and Wagner fit the bill.  It's up in the air whether Lyles can become that kind of pitcher.  The stuff doesn't seem to suggest it, but we'll see.  

I'd say that Deshields could become an impact player if he develops like they plan.  Folty has the stuff to become an impact pitcher.  Outside of those two, I don't know how many other guys have the ability to be MLB regulars and stand out from the crowd.  Not saying Heck has done a bad job, the depth is greatly improved, but we haven't have many home run picks (that we can tell), yet.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 03:43:18 pm by astrosfan76 »

JaneDoe

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #87 on: March 25, 2011, 02:15:43 pm »
Also, while I'm sure 10 years from right now we can look back and go "oh look, they passed over Joe McBigswing Derek Jeter, the greatest 3B  SS in baseball, when they could've picked him #10 in 2008 # 1 in 1992;" there's always hindsight guys like that, but it's not like they've had the #1 or #2 overall pick and fucked up.

Oh, really?  That Nevin guy was sooooo worth it.
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austro

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #88 on: March 25, 2011, 03:02:09 pm »
Oh, really?  That Nevin guy was sooooo worth it.

I'll see your Phil Nevin and raise you a Robbie Wine.
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JaneDoe

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #89 on: March 25, 2011, 03:06:00 pm »
I'll see your Phil Nevin and raise you a Robbie Wine.

Wine was the 8th pick right?  Rueben said we had never screwed up a #1 or a #2 pick........
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austro

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #90 on: March 25, 2011, 03:23:08 pm »
Wine was the 8th pick right?  Rueben said we had never screwed up a #1 or a #2 pick........

You're right, 8th pick. I thought he was earlier, but my memory isn't what it used to be. I just remember being very disappointed, because he seemed like such a good pick.
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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #91 on: March 25, 2011, 03:25:31 pm »
Wine was the 8th pick right?  Rueben said we had never screwed up a #1 or a #2 pick........
I meant in the Wade/Heck years. Obviously Nevin sticks out (Jeter on those late 90's teams would've been a pretty nice complementary piece), although there are plenty of #1 overall picks who never even made the majors, much less had the success that Nevin did...
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astrosfan76

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #92 on: March 25, 2011, 03:45:13 pm »
I meant in the Wade/Heck years. Obviously Nevin sticks out (Jeter on those late 90's teams would've been a pretty nice complementary piece), although there are plenty of #1 overall picks who never even made the majors, much less had the success that Nevin did...

There's always this guy...

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=456713

austro

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #93 on: March 25, 2011, 03:51:11 pm »
There's always this guy...

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=456713

Is he the cautionary tale about not accepting the high draft pick offer?
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astrosfan76

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #94 on: March 25, 2011, 04:01:29 pm »
Is he the cautionary tale about not accepting the high draft pick offer?

He's the cautionary tale about selecting a "decent" prep shortstop prospect over a stud college pitcher (Verlander) when money's not an issue (both signed for roughly the same amount).  
« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 04:04:08 pm by astrosfan76 »

Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: Opening Day Starter
« Reply #95 on: March 26, 2011, 10:38:27 am »
He's the cautionary tale about selecting a "decent" prep shortstop prospect over a stud college pitcher (Verlander) when money's not an issue (both signed for roughly the same amount).  

And also a cautionary tale of business principles. San Diego would have preferred to have drafted Steven Drew or Jered Weaver had they not been represented by Satan.
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