Taxes

[Alkie]

I just found out I'd be paying 3.2% LESS in taxes if I lived in Canada this year.   That doesn't include the 5.2% of my pre-tax income that goes to pay for health insurance.

Where the fuck does this myth that Canadians pay outrageous taxes come from?   I would have just assumed my tax bill would have been 20% higher until I just ran this spreadsheet and saw their tax tables.

[Lurch]

I just found out I'd be paying 3.2% LESS in taxes if I lived in Canada this year.   That doesn't include the 5.2% of my pre-tax income that goes to pay for health insurance.

Where the fuck does this myth that Canadians pay outrageous taxes come from?   I would have just assumed my tax bill would have been 20% higher until I just ran this spreadsheet and saw their tax tables.

I love that you interpret this as the Canadian myth rather than the reality that NY taxes are absurd

[Alkie]

I love that you interpret this as the Canadian myth rather than the reality that NY taxes are absurd

I meant America, not NY.

[Alkie]

NY state/city taxes are almost identical to the Province taxes; I'm just talking about federal income taxes.

[chuck]

NY state/city taxes are almost identical to the Province taxes; I'm just talking about federal income taxes.

Are you taking your payroll taxes into account?

[Alkie]

Are you taking your payroll taxes into account?

I was not; just fed income taxes.

[BizidyDizidy]

Does it include deductions?

[Lurch]

Does it include deductions?

That may be the difference.  According to infalible Wiki

in 2005
Single, no children: 31.6 vs 29.1 (Canada v US)
Maried, 2 children: 21.5 vs 11.9 (holy shit, its that low?!)

[BizidyDizidy]

+ mortgage interest deduction, etc.

[Fredia]

i saw a house hunters today where they added a 5 per cent to the price because the place was new in canada

[mrpink]

i saw a house hunters today where they added a 5 per cent to the price because the place was new in canada

Yep, wiki says it's a 5% federal sales tax, plus whatever it is the province adds to it.

[HudsonHawk]

Yep, wiki says it's a 5% federal sales tax, plus whatever it is the province adds to it.

We have a sales tax in the US too.  When I lived in NC, I had to pay a tax on my car or anything of significant value every year.  I couldn't believe I was having to pay taxes on items I'd bought 5 years earilier.  In addition to the 7% state income tax.  Taxes (and New Yorkers) were the main reason I had to move back to Texas.

[Limey]

+ mortgage interest deduction, etc.

- cost of health insurance
- out of pocket expenses
- co-pays
- coinsurance


Plus, you are assuming that mortgage interest is not a deduction in Canada also.

[BizidyDizidy]

- cost of health insurance
- out of pocket expenses
- co-pays
- coinsurance


Plus, you are assuming that mortgage interest is not a deduction in Canada also.

I'm not, I have no idea either way. I'm just saying a simple spreadsheet with just the tax brackets isn't particularly meaningful to effective rates.

[MusicMan]

I'm just saying a simple spreadsheet with just the tax brackets isn't particularly meaningful to effective rates.

Please copy, paste, and distribute to all supporters of a "flat tax".

[Limey]

I'm not, I have no idea either way. I'm just saying a simple spreadsheet with just the tax brackets isn't particularly meaningful to effective rates.

Right.  I don't know either.  And agreed on the spreadsheet thing, especially as anything that doesn't take into account all taxes is irrelevant.  For example, the UK has relatively low income taxes (for Europe), but hidden in the listed prices for most purchases is a 17.5% sales tax.  This type of thing became known as a "stealth tax" and it's one of the issues that brought down the remnants of Blair's government.  People didn't liked being taxed by paper cuts, and I don't blame them.  If you want some of my money, look me in the eye when you ask for it!

[mrpink]

We have a sales tax in the US too.  When I lived in NC, I had to pay a tax on my car or anything of significant value every year.  I couldn't believe I was having to pay taxes on items I'd bought 5 years earilier.  In addition to the 7% state income tax.  Taxes (and New Yorkers) were the main reason I had to move back to Texas.

We have state and local sales tax. The 5% I was talking about refers to Canada's federal tax and does not include taxes levied by the provinces.

[HudsonHawk]

We have state and local sales tax. The 5% I was talking about refers to Canada's federal tax and does not include taxes levied by the provinces.

Tomato/tomahto.  We still pay upwards of 8% of our purchases in sales tax.

[mrpink]

I apologize for bumping this thread after a day and a half, but this is the soonest I could respond and I couldn't let this go. It's really not tomato/tomahto. All the goods you buy in Texas are subject to at least 6.75% sales tax (I think) all the goods you buy in New Hampshire are subject to no sales tax (again, I think). Up north you have to pay at least 5% no matter where you buy a product. That means you're paying greater than 10% on goods in all provinces but one. This is not a trivial amount of money, but one area that people frequently overlook.

[HudsonHawk]

I apologize for bumping this thread after a day and a half, but this is the soonest I could respond and I couldn't let this go. It's really not tomato/tomahto. All the goods you buy in Texas are subject to at least 6.75% sales tax (I think) all the goods you buy in New Hampshire are subject to no sales tax (again, I think). Up north you have to pay at least 5% no matter where you buy a product. That means you're paying greater than 10% on goods in all provinces but one. This is not a trivial amount of money, but one area that people frequently overlook.

I *is* tomato/tomahto.  In New Hampshire, you may not pay a sales tax, but you pay taxes for other things, such as the 9% tax you pay on food in a restaurant, and "electricity consumption tax" and a state property tax.  In other states that have no or little sales tax, you pay a state income tax, for example.  In other words, they get you in the end.  If you think they don't, you're incredibly naive.

[mrpink]

I *is* tomato/tomahto.  In New Hampshire, you may not pay a sales tax, but you pay taxes for other things, such as the 9% tax you pay on food in a restaurant, and "electricity consumption tax" and a state property tax.  In other states that have no or little sales tax, you pay a state income tax, for example.  In other words, they get you in the end.  If you think they don't, you're incredibly naive.

I should refine my point.  Yes, "they" will always get you in the end.  The point is how much.  Like you said Texans pay upwards of 8% for the majority of purchases.  In all provinces but Alberta you will pay between 10-15% on purchases.  This is why you can't just look at federal income taxes and say that Canada's taxes are relatively close to ours.

[HudsonHawk]

This is why you can't just look at federal income taxes and say that Canada's taxes are relatively close to ours.

This is exactly my point.

[geezerdonk]

Right.  I don't know either.  And agreed on the spreadsheet thing, especially as anything that doesn't take into account all taxes is irrelevant.  For example, the UK has relatively low income taxes (for Europe), but hidden in the listed prices for most purchases is a 17.5% sales tax.  This type of thing became known as a "stealth tax" and it's one of the issues that brought down the remnants of Blair's government.  People didn't liked being taxed by paper cuts, and I don't blame them.  If you want some of my money, look me in the eye when you ask for it!

Ask?

[Limey]

Just a quick update:  on January 1, the VAT (stealth sales tax) in the UK goes up to 20%.

Twenty.  Percent.

W...T...F...?

[Lurch]

Just a quick update:  on January 1, the VAT (stealth sales tax) in the UK goes up to 20%.

Twenty.  Percent.

W...T...F...?

Ouch.  What was it?

VAT is being seriously looked at here I believe

[austro]

Just a quick update:  on January 1, the VAT (stealth sales tax) in the UK goes up to 20%.

Twenty.  Percent.

W...T...F...?

What things (if any) are exempt from the VAT? Groceries?

[Limey]

What things (if any) are exempt from the VAT? Groceries?

Most groceries (but I'm not sure if all are exempt), school supplies, children's "essentials" (clothes etc.), medicines*, maybe some other things but not many.  The 2.5% hike will add nearly 2.5% to inflation in one fell swoop.  Or, to look at it from the other side, in a cash-strapped society everyone just got a 2.5% pay cut.  Ugh!

I just got back from there - it's pretty fucking depressed and depressing, I can tell you.


* National Insurance covers the cost of medicines subject to a low, fixed, flat co-pay, so there is no VAT charge.  Private medicine may well be subject to VAT, but I do not know one way of the other.  Children's and seniors' medicine is exempt from the co-pay if through the national scheme, don't know about private.

[Limey]

For those with waaaay too much time on their hands and/or insomnia - here's a list of items either VAT exempt or subject to a reduced rate.  More expansive than I thought.