Woody gone

[Bench]

The veteran was released this morning.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5658673.html

They also announced the rotation for the four game set in SD: Roy-Backe-Wandy-Chacon. Sampson is officially handed the 5th spot.

[pravata]

The veteran was released this morning.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5658673.html

They also announced the rotation for the four game set in SD: Roy-Backe-Wandy-Chacon. Sampson is officially handed the 5th spot.

The baseball side of the Astros brain taking over.

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I'd understand if he doesn't, but I hope that Woodrow hangs 'em up and becomes a roving Minor League instructor.

Odd that we went into ST with two players (WW and Ausmus) about whom it could be said, "they'll be great coaches one day, and it'd give us more roster flexibility if that day were sooner rather than later."

Godspeed, Woody.

[remy]

Duarte on the ball again, bright and early on a Saturday morning.

I don't know if Woody gets signed by another team.  He's a lot older than Shane was, and really does appear to be out of gas.  Who knows.  Best wishes to him.  It's gotta be a miserable feeling to finally be signed by your hometown club and just fall flat on your face.

[JimR]

I hate this.

[Mr. Happy]

I hate this.

I hate it too, but the numbers don't lie. It's part of the game.

Woody should have hung it up after last season. I said very early on last year that Woody was done. It was obvious.

[MusicMan]

I hate this.

I hate that, even as poorly as he pitched last year and this ST, I still think he might be our best 5th starter option.

[OregonStrosFan]

Godspeed, Woody.

Agreed.

Reading yesterday, it seemed Woody sensed the writing was on the wall. 
I know this is a baseball decision, and the numbers are what they are, but this still sucks.

[Mr. Happy]

I hate that, even as poorly as he pitched last year and this ST, I still think he might be our best 5th starter option.

When Chacon is your no. 4, you're in trouble no matter what else you have. The bully will probably be working 4 innings plus every two days oout of five. And I'm not thrilled about Backe's ability to stretch out past five innings. This team may well need 13 pitchers.

[Fredia]

are there doovers in baseball. be nice to rewind and maybe not trade away so much pitching for so much defense. it wont matter how many jacks or rbis if the very next inning you give up twice as many

[das]

I hate this.

Hey, coach, why do you hate it?  Would he have been better than Sampson?

[JimR]

I have not seen anyone throw. I just think Woody should have been given a chance to fail in April. He is all class. Certainly his numbers were awful. Sampson is a middle innings guy.

Bailing already, Fredia?

[hostros7]

I know his numbers were terrible, but I think a man with his experience deserves a couple starts at the beginning of the regular season so see what he has left. 

[DVauthrin]

I just don't get her comment about the pitching traded away.    Patton would be lost for the year, Albers had numerous chances to prove himself and came up short, and I don't believe sarfate and gutierrez were top of the line guys by any means.

They needed better arms even if they hadn't dealt those guys.   I also disagree that chacon as a number 4 is a sign of trouble.   He can hold his own in that capacity just fine...

Finally, the tigers offense is loaded and they will do that to a lot of pitchers.   Unfortunately woody kept hanging 2 strike pitches in the 6th last night which got him into trouble.

[Mr. Happy]

I know his numbers were terrible, but I think a man with his experience deserves a couple starts at the beginning of the regular season so see what he has left. 

I think that the club saw enough of him last season, when they gave him every chance, even in the bullpen. Outside of July and August, he stunk on ice. The club didn't mistreat him. They were straight up with him, even in public. He had to earn a spot. He didn't.

[MusicMan]

According to ESPN's spring training blog, Woody has told KRIV that he's retiring.

[pravata]

According to ESPN's spring training blog, Woody has told KRIV that he's retiring.

"This is the first day of the rest of my life without playing, without baseball," Williams told Houston television station KRIV. "I signed with the Astros with the plan to finish my career here. I am not going anywhere else."
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D8VN7D580.html

[Reuben]

According to ESPN's spring training blog, Woody has told KRIV that he's retiring.

"This is the first day of the rest of my life without playing, without baseball," Williams told Houston television station KRIV. "I signed with the Astros with the plan to finish my career here. I am not going anywhere else."

The Link

best of luck to him, hope he resurfaces with the team in some capacity.
eta: pravata just beat me to it.

[Arky Vaughan]

I just don't get her comment about the pitching traded away.    Patton would be lost for the year, Albers had numerous chances to prove himself and came up short, and I don't believe sarfate and gutierrez were top of the line guys by any means.

They needed better arms even if they hadn't dealt those guys.   I also disagree that chacon as a number 4 is a sign of trouble.   He can hold his own in that capacity just fine...

Finally, the tigers offense is loaded and they will do that to a lot of pitchers.   Unfortunately woody kept hanging 2 strike pitches in the 6th last night which got him into trouble.

Right on. The rotation is extremely shaky, but I don't think anyone they traded away would make it any better. Put another way: if any of the guys they traded were really likely to be that much better than what they kept, then Wade wouldn't have made those trades.

[Arky Vaughan]

The thing I'll always remember about Williams is that he was one of the starting pitchers (even if for the opposition) in perhaps the greatest game I've ever had the pleasure of attending, a true masterpiece:

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2004/B10180HOU2004.htm.

[MusicMan]

The thing I'll always remember about Williams is that he was one of the starting pitchers (even if for the opposition) in perhaps the greatest game I've ever had the pleasure of attending, a true masterpiece:

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2004/B10180HOU2004.htm.

Hear, hear.  Great guy, great career.  Everyone reaches the end of the road sometime.

[mihoba]

Happy Trails Woody, you were a class act. Too bad the Astros didn't pick him up a few years ago.

Of course Lance just has to question management:

“Possibly a bit premature,” he said. “The game is completely different in the regular season than it is in spring training, especially from a guy like Woody who has been around the block a few times.”

[JaneDoe]

Happy Trails Woody, you were a class act. Too bad the Astros didn't pick him up a few years ago.

Of course Lance just has to question management:

Somebody stuff some Twinkies in his piehole.  It will take more than one.

[JimR]

Happy Trails Woody, you were a class act. Too bad the Astros didn't pick him up a few years ago.

Of course Lance just has to question management:

for once, i agree with Berkman.

[Bench]

Somebody stuff some Twinkies in his piehole.  It will take more than one.

I don't understand why people are annoyed when Lance honestly answers a question. I may not agree with him a lot of the time (I happen to think tolerance is a good thing), but I'm glad he's saying it. That being said, he ain't wrong here.

[Mr. Happy]

I don't understand why people are annoyed when Lance honestly answers a question. I may not agree with him a lot of the time (I happen to think tolerance is a good thing), but I'm glad he's saying it. That being said, he ain't wrong here.

While I disagree with Lance on this one because I think that Woody is done, I agree with you about Lance being free to express his opinion.

[Bench]

While I disagree with Lance on this one because I think that Woody is done, I agree with you about Lance being free to express his opinion.

The decisions makers obviously agree with you, but it would be difficult to cast "possibly a bit premature" as a false statement.

ETA: Also, it's not a matter of his right to express his opinion; that's a given. I am genuinely happy when people do. It's a refreshing change from most public personas.

[Arky Vaughan]

Bitching about Lance Berkman's bitching is something of a preoccupation here, along with harping on how bad most baseball writers are.

[pravata]

I don't understand why people are annoyed when Lance honestly answers a question. I may not agree with him a lot of the time (I happen to think tolerance is a good thing), but I'm glad he's saying it. That being said, he ain't wrong here.

Roy is saying the same thing too.  But, Berkman said this also, and it definitely is not cool, "I probably would have given him at least a month of the regular season, especially since it's not like the guys we have behind him lit the world on fire during Spring Training." Link

[ybbodeus]

Always would watch him pitching while wearing those evil colors seen 82 times per year in St. Louis and wonder what it would take to get him to come home to pitch.  I supposed hindsight would suggest that the time to grab him would have been after he gained free agency status following the '04 season.  But, alas, the organization got him too late.  Can't recall, DID they make a run at him that offseason and decide he was done...or too expensive for his age? 

Another in a series of HELP THE HELPLESS GUY questions--presuming no other team signs him and he truly DOES retire, will he get his final year's salary in lump sum, annuity or some other form like, perhaps, Ethiopian Wheat credits? 

[Emo Oranges]

I was, too, reading Berkman's comments concerning the release of Woody Williams.  Does it seem to you guys that after most Astros moves that Berkman or someone criticizes management these days?  I'm not saying management is above criticism...but it seems to be too frequent.

Thoughts?

[Andyzipp]

Thoughts?

Now tha's one quicka malt liqua.

[pravata]

Hear, hear.  Great guy, great career.  Everyone reaches the end of the road sometime.

Yesterday, before the game Woody said,

"I'm going to be in church with my family on Sunday one way or the other. I've got a family waiting for me at home that's going to be waiting for me with open arms."

[remy]

Now tha's one quicka malt liqua.

Seriously.  I respect the guy for withstanding the first barrage clark smack-down, but I'm never going to be able to think of anything else unless he changes his name.

Please, Cock.  For the children.

[Emo Oranges]

Okay,sure, since my name led you to thoughts of...well...you know.

and because JackAstro gave me a name that I didn't have think of...

My name is now changed.

Embrace the scorn!

[remy]

Embrace the scorn!

Be sure and give yourself the appropriate avatar!

(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7269/65012858df0.jpg)

[rambo2]

Doesn't Woody still get 6 million even though they released him?

[remy]

I was, too, reading Berkman's comments concerning the release of Woody Williams.  Does it seem to you guys that after most Astros moves that Berkman or someone criticizes management these days?  I'm not saying management is above criticism...but it seems to be too frequent.

Thoughts?

I think the general consensus around these parts is that Lance needs to shut his pie twinkie hole.

[ValpoCory]

The thing I'll always remember about Williams is that he was one of the starting pitchers (even if for the opposition) in perhaps the greatest game I've ever had the pleasure of attending, a true masterpiece:

http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/2004/B10180HOU2004.htm.

I thought about that game today too.  What a game that was.  I remember looking up and seeing beer fly from the upper deck when Kent hit that.  Reminded me of Yankee Stadium in the playoffs.

[Waldo]

I remember looking up and seeing beer fly from the upper deck when Kent hit that.  Reminded me of Yankee Stadium in the playoffs.

My laptop went sailing across the living room.

[HudsonHawk]

Doesn't Woody still get 6 million even though they released him?

Yes.  Woody's salary is a sunk cost.  They owed him whether they kept him or released him. 

[jonbloozy]

Mclane offers a nice severance package

[HudsonHawk]

Mclane offers a nice severance package

Mclane had nothing to do with it.  The Astros are contractually obligated to pay him.

[Gleek]

Mclane had nothing to do with it.  The Astros are contractually obligated to pay him.

I believe they can recoup some of that salary if another team signs him, right?  Not that that's going to happen, it sounds as if he's done.  Can't help but feel sorry for the guy, he is a true class act.

[jonbloozy]

Mclane had nothing to do with it.  The Astros are contractually obligated to pay him.

I know, sorry, forgot the [/sarcasm].  I'm sure if the Astros were not contractually obligated, he'd offer something comparable, though.  Right?

[pravata]

I know, sorry, forgot the [/sarcasm].  I'm sure if the Astros were not contractually obligated, he'd offer something comparable, though.  Right?

How could a situation like this come up without a contract?

[Arky Vaughan]

I know, sorry, forgot the [/sarcasm].  I'm sure if the Astros were not contractually obligated, he'd offer something comparable, though.  Right?

Just give him a few million dollars for retiring if he weren't under contract? No.

[HudsonHawk]

I believe they can recoup some of that salary if another team signs him, right?

Another team could sign him for the league minimum, but the Astros owe him the balance on his contract. 

[Mr. Happy]

I know, sorry, forgot the [/sarcasm].  I'm sure if the Astros were not contractually obligated, he'd offer something comparable, though.  Right?

Uh no. You must be too young to remember Marvin Miller, the advent of the MLBPA, Curt Flood, Dave McNally, Andy Messersmith and the Reserve Clause. Owners have never been known for their generosity.

[jonbloozy]

I know, sorry, forgot the [/sarcasm].  I'm sure if the Astros were not contractually obligated, he'd offer something comparable, though.  Right?

[/sarcasm]

[pravata]

[/sarcasm]

Where does sarcasm even enter into it?  If a player has a contract, in baseball, the team is obligated to pay him whether they play him or not.  If the contract is for 6 million and they cut him, they pay him, if it's $365,000, and they cut him, they pay him.  Who expects a parting gift?  MLBPA has a retirement plan.

[TheWizard]

Roy is saying the same thing too.  But, Berkman said this also, and it definitely is not cool, "I probably would have given him at least a month of the regular season, especially since it's not like the guys we have behind him lit the world on fire during Spring Training." Link

Berkman is making a perfectly valid point, but he could have made the same point without the end of that statement.  I'm not sure if that's quite throwing his teammates under a bus, but its close.

[pravata]

Berkman is making a perfectly valid point, but he could have made the same point without the end of that statement.  I'm not sure if that's quite throwing his teammates under a bus, but its close.

It certainly is no secret, Wade has admitted to "anxiety" about his rotation and Richard Justice, reports, reminds us, that the GM has "worked the phones to see who was available".  Link

Wade said flat out, "We need to pitch better than we did in spring training," he said. "We've got a good club. We're going to score runs and we're going to catch the ball. It's going to come down to how well we pitch."

So, no mystery, every Clark realizes the Astros need to pitch better.  But does Berkman need to pile on?  "No shit, you think Lance?", 12 of his teammates would probably reply.

[Bench]

Where does sarcasm even enter into it?  If a player has a contract, in baseball, the team is obligated to pay him whether they play him or not.  If the contract is for 6 million and they cut him, they pay him, if it's $365,000, and they cut him, they pay him.  Who expects a parting gift?  MLBPA has a retirement plan.

I'm assuming he thinks its a "sarcastic" thinly veiled comment about Drayton being cheap.

[pravata]

I'm assuming he thinks its a "sarcastic" thinly veiled common about Drayton being cheap.

As we know, and he should discover, this forum is not a safe haven for easily expressing that myth. 

[strosrays]

As we know, and he should discover, this forum is not a safe haven for easily expressing that myth. 

One can - and probably should - criticize his sartorial tastes all day long, his haircut, etc. . . but DO NOT question his fiscal commitment.

[rambo2]

Another team could sign him for the league minimum, but the Astros owe him the balance on his contract. 

I don't think that another team would be interested in him.  He was flat out terrible last year.  I doubt that they would have invited him back if they didn't owe him the 6.5 million for this year.

[jonbloozy]

I'm assuming he thinks its a "sarcastic" thinly veiled comment about Drayton being cheap.

It was meant more as a comment voicing displeasure over Woody being let go.  I'll try to take it easy on the bad jokes.  I would never expect Mclane (or any other owner) to offer a player a parting gift.  Just bummed over Woody not getting a chance to pitch outside of Spring Training (though we have all seen his numbers).  I have a lot of respect for him as a pitcher and an individual and would have liked to see him announce his retirement before just getting released.  That being said, it was probably still the best decision for the team.

[ybbodeus]

Mclane had nothing to do with it.  The Astros are contractually obligated to pay him.

Is it done in lump sum or annuity?

[pravata]

Is it done in lump sum or annuity?

The contract would set the dates for payments.  No way to know, except if you've seen the contract.  Likely the payments will be made as if he was still playing.   Twice a month.  Why is this important?

[ybbodeus]

The contract would set the dates for payments.  No way to know, except if you've seen the contract.  Likely the payments will be made as if he was still playing.   Twice a month.  Why is this important?

Just curious.  I've been deemed the master of the irrelevant, so that question would be in line with said mantra.

Thanks.

[David in Jackson]

I don't understand why people are annoyed when Lance honestly answers a question. I may not agree with him a lot of the time (I happen to think tolerance is a good thing), but I'm glad he's saying it. That being said, he ain't wrong here.

He is wrong in this case.  He's not Billy Wagner, but just because a good player says something doesn't make it worth a d***.

[rambo2]

Is it done in lump sum or annuity?

It is kind of like hitting the lotto. 
They pay you and you don't have to work.

[HudsonHawk]

The contract would set the dates for payments.  No way to know, except if you've seen the contract.  Likely the payments will be made as if he was still playing.   Twice a month.  Why is this important?

I believe this is correct, he gets paid his normal salary on normal paydays.  But I'm not positive. 

[Gizzmonic]

I was at the game, and in my typical mouthy dumbass way, I turned to my friend and said "hard ground ball up the middle, Beltran scores."

When I turned around the ball was in midflight towards the facade above the Crawford Boxes.  I missed seeing the swing because I was busy making a stupid prediction.  Lesson learned...

I thought about that game today too.  What a game that was.  I remember looking up and seeing beer fly from the upper deck when Kent hit that.  Reminded me of Yankee Stadium in the playoffs.

[MRaup]

I was at the game, and in my typical mouthy dumbass way, I turned to my friend and said "hard ground ball up the middle, Beltran scores."

When I turned around the ball was in midflight towards the facade above the Crawford Boxes.  I missed seeing the swing because I was busy making a stupid prediction.  Lesson learned...

As soon as he swung the bat...

Me, my dad, and a buddy of mine were all on our feet going insane...

My dad's dog was wigging out because we were all screaming like 12 year old trailer park girls seeing Chipper Jones for the first time.

[MusicMan]

I distinctly remember jumping farther out of my chair than ever before, and yelling "he got it!"

[JimR]

As soon as he swung the bat...

Me, my dad, and a buddy of mine were all on our feet going insane...

My dad's dog was wigging out because we were all screaming like 12 year old trailer park girls seeing Chipper Jones for the first time.

we had been at the game the day before, and the noise in the 9th was the most unbelievable sound i could not hear. i cannot imagine how it was when Kent hit the ball.

[remy]

I really felt Kent was going to leave the yard when they IBB'ed the guy in front of him.  Once in a while, my gut feelings ring true.

[Limey]

I thought about that game today too.  What a game that was.  I remember looking up and seeing beer fly from the upper deck when Kent hit that.  Reminded me of Yankee Stadium in the playoffs.

In an attempt to counter, at least in part, Zipp's unprovoked attack upon my writing skillz, I offer you this.

[Bench]

The noise was deafening. That was the single most exciting sporting moment I've ever attended.

[Lurch]

The noise was deafening. That was the single most exciting sporting moment I've ever attended.

We had seats behind the Astros bullpen.  Tickets I would normally avoid, but nothing else was available... for that one moment, though, best seats in the house!

[ybbodeus]

Would Hatcher's home run in '86 be the noise benchmark for the Dome and Kent's the same for MMP (to date)?

[Astroholic]

Would Hatcher's home run in '86 be the noise benchmark for the Dome and Kent's the same for MMP (to date)?

I believe that Burke's might have been louder.  Ausmus' was pretty damn loud in its own right, though there was some confusion if it were a home run or not.  Kent's was damn loud.  Can't remember Hatch's, but I was there for that one as well. I hate the GD mets.

[remy]

Can't remember Hatch's, but I was there for that one as well. I hate the GD mets.

Anyone happen to catch Real Sports last week with the segment on Lenny Dykstra?  I had no freaking idea he was a businessman now.  A goddamn successful one.  Fucking steM bastard.

[pravata]

Anyone happen to catch Real Sports last week with the segment on Lenny Dykstra?  I had no freaking idea he was a businessman now.  A goddamn successful one.  Fucking steM bastard.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/24/080324fa_fact_mcgrath

[homer]

I believe that Burke's might have been louder.  Ausmus' was pretty damn loud in its own right, though there was some confusion if it were a home run or not.  Kent's was damn loud.  Can't remember Hatch's, but I was there for that one as well. I hate the GD mets.

Berkman's homerun off Carpenter in the 7th was pretty loud. Lidge with 2 outs in the ninth was deafening.

[remy]

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/03/24/080324fa_fact_mcgrath

here's a little clip from the 15-minute segment:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=m-b8OAJYpkk

[Gizzmonic]

I just remember the moment frozen in time as the ball was headed towards the facade.  Then, everyone was high fiving each other and yelling "Astros are going to the World Series!"  Turns out they were off by a year, but that's okay.  I'll never forget that day.  And if I'm ever in that situation again, I'll keep my eyes on the field and my mouth shut as soon as the batter steps in.

we had been at the game the day before, and the noise in the 9th was the most unbelievable sound i could not hear. i cannot imagine how it was when Kent hit the ball.

[Limey]

We had seats behind the Astros bullpen.  Tickets I would normally avoid, but nothing else was available... for that one moment, though, best seats in the house!

We were 3B side, half way to the fowl (sic.) pole.  We got to watch the ball scream by at eye level.  I think I watched it, at least.  I was not a little unhinged at the time.

Best.  Game.  Ever.