This Can't Be Good, re: Bagwell

[Rosalie]

 
  Sounds like they have made up their minds.

 The Link

[pravata]

Quote:

  Sounds like they have made up their minds.

 The Link

Or has Richard Justice?  The insurance company looks at Bagwell after the claim is filed.  Whether he plays for the Astros is their call, not the Astros', not Bagwell's

[wingnut]

I think the insurance company will do all they can to not pay out the claim.  That will include allowing Bagwell to continue rehab and see if he's ready by spring training or opening day.  So, Bagwell will be able to get his chance to prove himself on the field.

[mihoba]

I can forsee Bags shotputting the ball for the insurance men.

"He can throw, claim denied."

Give him a chance, Drayton. It's only money. Easy for me to say...

[Rosalie]

  I agree with wingnut's thinking. The insurance company is going to want proof positive before they shell out that money. If they paid and he ends up playing again down the road they would rightfully be pissed.
  I dunno, my head says if he can't play why not cash in on the insurance and pay for someone who can. My heart says, but damn, it's Bagwell! Give the guy a chance!

[astro pete]

Quote:
My heart says, but damn, it's Bagwell! Give the guy a chance!

The insurance claim is all about Drayton's pocketbook; it has nothing to do with Astros fans.  In other words, it's not as though the $15 million saved on Bagwell's contract will go toward acquiring another player whom we couldn't sign today.

[stubbyc]

Quote:

Quote:
My heart says, but damn, it's Bagwell! Give the guy a chance!

The insurance claim is all about Drayton's pocketbook; it has nothing to do with Astros fans.  In other words, it's not as though the $15 million saved on Bagwell's contract will go toward acquiring another player whom we couldn't sign today.

You've become quite the cynic. While it may not go directly into signing a player *right now* I think it helps financial flexibility for the future.

[Tralfaz]

News out of Temple...

The Link

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Quote:
I can forsee Bags shotputting the ball for the insurance men.

"He can throw, claim denied."

Give him a chance, Drayton. It's only money. Easy for me to say...

Think the adjuster will asked if he can throw lefty?

[astro pete]

Quote:

Quote:
I can forsee Bags shotputting the ball for the insurance men.

"He can throw, claim denied."

Give him a chance, Drayton. It's only money. Easy for me to say...

Think the adjuster will asked if he can throw lefty?

The Astros actually considered this possibility themselves.

[astro pete]

Quote:

You've become quite the cynic. While it may not go directly into signing a player *right now* I think it helps financial flexibility for the future.

I'm not being cynical; were I Drayton I may be doing the same thing ($15 million is a lot of money).  But the notion that Bagwell's contract is precluding the Astros from pursuing other talent is a fallacy.  You should have noted this when they were trying to add Miguel Tejada to the payroll, Jeff Bagwell's albatross salary included.

[pravata]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
I can forsee Bags shotputting the ball for the insurance men.

"He can throw, claim denied."

Give him a chance, Drayton. It's only money. Easy for me to say...

Think the adjuster will asked if he can throw lefty?

The Astros actually considered this possibility themselves.

Who considered this. When did they consider it.

[HurricaneDavid]

"According to McLane, the club would like to give Bagwell the chance to prove he can play while the team trains in Florida. Whether or not he can do that, and still give the Astros a chance to collect on the insurance, is to be determined.

"We would like for him to have the opportunity," McLane said... It's undetermined whether we could allow him to do that."

Unless it would void the insurance policy, wouldn't the insurance company want him to go to spring training?  If he doesn't go to spring training, then the Astros would likely collect.  If he does go to spring training, there's a chance that they wouldn't collect.  Am I missing something, or shouldn't this be something that McLane and the insurance company can work out?

[pravata]

Quote:
"According to McLane, the club would like to give Bagwell the chance to prove he can play while the team trains in Florida. Whether or not he can do that, and still give the Astros a chance to collect on the insurance, is to be determined.

"We would like for him to have the opportunity," McLane said... It's undetermined whether we could allow him to do that."

Unless it would void the insurance policy, wouldn't the insurance company want him to go to spring training?  If he doesn't go to spring training, then the Astros would likely collect.  If he does go to spring training, there's a chance that they wouldn't collect.  Am I missing something, or shouldn't this be something that McLane and the insurance company can work out?

"In the original policy, (the insurance company) claims that he could not come to Spring Training," McLane said. "We're going to take all of the information we have and meet with them and see if there is any opportunity (for Bagwell to play in Spring Training). Jeff just wants the opportunity."
The Link

[Froback]

Quote:
"According to McLane, the club would like to give Bagwell the chance to prove he can play while the team trains in Florida. Whether or not he can do that, and still give the Astros a chance to collect on the insurance, is to be determined.

"We would like for him to have the opportunity," McLane said... It's undetermined whether we could allow him to do that."

Unless it would void the insurance policy, wouldn't the insurance company want him to go to spring training?  If he doesn't go to spring training, then the Astros would likely collect.  If he does go to spring training, there's a chance that they wouldn't collect.  Am I missing something, or shouldn't this be something that McLane and the insurance company can work out?

Well here are the knowns:

1) Bagwell wants to test himself in spring training in REAL baseball to determine if he can play anymore.
2) Drayton wants to give Bagwell a chance to prove he can/cannot still play.
3) The insurance deadline is set at end of Jan.

#3 prevents #2 and #1 from being possible.

Insurance companies are in the business to make money (just like everyone else).  Therefore they would rather not pay out the $15.6 Mil, but that is the risk they took on when they sold the policy to the Astros.  They will probably want to be pretty black and white, either he can or cannot play.  Thus they will have a 3rd set of doctors (their doctors) look at Bagwell and make a judgement call.

If this set of doctors say "Bagwell's shoulder will not allow him to play."  THEN and only THEN might something be worked out with them and the Astros, because obviously the insurance company would want every opportunity to not have to pay $15.6 Mil.

IF the insurance doctors claim Bagwell healthy enough to play, then they have no reason to negotiate with the Astros and will deny the claim.

So in all likelyhood, Bagwell and Drayton only get their wish, if these doctors claim Bagwell cannot play.  It is only then that you might be able to renegotiate the deadline for claiming the insurance money.

That is my best opinion into this issue.  (And I do not work with insurance, so my rational may be flawed).

[Froback]

Quote:
"In the original policy, (the insurance company) claims that he could not come to Spring Training," McLane said. "We're going to take all of the information we have and meet with them and see if there is any opportunity (for Bagwell to play in Spring Training). Jeff just wants the opportunity."
The Link

If that is true, that could be great news for both sides.

[astro pete]

Quote:


Who considered this. When did they consider it.

Well, at some point between October and December Phil Garner "talked about it."  Obviously, it didn't lead to anything.

[pravata]

Quote:

Quote:


Who considered this. When did they consider it.

Well, at some point between October and December Phil Garner "talked about it."  Obviously, it didn't lead to anything.

I think you were the only one who caught that comment.

[pravata]

Quote:

Quote:
"In the original policy, (the insurance company) claims that he could not come to Spring Training," McLane said. "We're going to take all of the information we have and meet with them and see if there is any opportunity (for Bagwell to play in Spring Training). Jeff just wants the opportunity."
The Link

If that is true, that could be great news for both sides.

It's a direct quote from Mclane.  I think what's getting lost in the media coverage is that both Bagwell and Mclane want to see what he can do in Spring Training.

[astro pete]

Quote:

I think you were the only one who caught that comment.

You won't find it on google.

[pravata]

Quote:

Quote:

I think you were the only one who caught that comment.

You won't find it on google.

I know.

[MRaup]

Quote:

Quote:

I think you were the only one who caught that comment.

You won't find it on google.

Well, if its not on google, then it clearly never happened.

[pravata]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I think you were the only one who caught that comment.

You won't find it on google.

Well, if its not on google, then it clearly never happened.

If he said it on the radio it wouldnt appear in a web search.  Lots of reasons Google wouldnt pick up this comment.   The thing is, this ridiculous suggestion keeps getting made.

[MikeyBoy]

Quote:

Quote:


Who considered this. When did they consider it.

Well, at some point between October and December Phil Garner "talked about it."  Obviously, it didn't lead to anything.

Garner (to Purpura): Hey Tim, a fan suggested we get Bags to start throwing left handed?

Purpura/Garner (together): BWAHAHAHHAHAAHA

Talked about it like that??

[astro pete]

Quote:

Garner (to Purpura): Hey Tim, a fan suggested we get Bags to start throwing left handed?

Purpura/Garner (together): BWAHAHAHHAHAAHA

Talked about it like that??

Not exactly.

[BizidyDizidy]

Why are you being so goddamn cryptic?

[Navin R Johnson]

I can?t imagine how the Astros could collect on the insurance policy.   Bagwell was "healthy" enough to play in the fucking WORLD SERIES 3 months ago, so unless he got dravecky-ed during the off-season and it wasn?t reported, then he is going to be playing Spring Training.

I don?t blame the Astros for looking into the insurance policy, but they aint getting the money.    

Bagwell has earned the right to be on the team, but, barring bionic surgery, he needs to accept he is the 25th man on the roster, which I am sure Bags will do with the same class that he has exhibited throughout his career.  Berkman should be the everyday first baseman.

[strosrays]

Quote:
I can forsee Bags shotputting the ball for the insurance men.

"He can throw, claim denied."

If McLane claimed Bagwell was damaged during Hurricane Rita, he's probably screwed.

[astro pete]

Quote:

I can?t imagine how the Astros could collect on the insurance policy.   Bagwell was "healthy" enough to play in the fucking WORLD SERIES 3 months ago, so unless he got dravecky-ed during the off-season and it wasn?t reported, then he is going to be playing Spring Training.

I don?t blame the Astros for looking into the insurance policy, but they aint getting the money.    

Bagwell has earned the right to be on the team, but, barring bionic surgery, he needs to accept he is the 25th man on the roster, which I am sure Bags will do with the same class that he has exhibited throughout his career.  Berkman should be the everyday first baseman.

I agree.  Apparently the language of the policy is vague enough to require interpretation of what being "disabled" entails.  If an insurance company is going to consider Jeff Bagwell (who started two games of the World Series, sparked a rally in the ninth inning of Game 2, and who presumably is healthier now than he was then) "disabled," then I want to buy my insurance from them.  Here's what really bothers me:

 

Quote:
It also appears that the franchise?s relationship with their veteran first baseman is irreparably damaged or, at least, in need of severe mending.

?It probably will never be fixed between me and the Astros,? Bagwell said Tuesday morning in his first public comments since general manager Tim Purpura declared Monday that Bagwell ?from a technical point of view right now he is a disabled player. He can?t play professional baseball -- certainly not at the National League at this point.?
 

[Ty in Tampa]

Really. What the fuck, mystery man? Spill it!

[utastro]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I think you were the only one who caught that comment.

You won't find it on google.

Well, if its not on google, then it clearly never happened.

If he said it on the radio it wouldnt appear in a web search.  Lots of reasons Google wouldnt pick up this comment.   The thing is, this ridiculous suggestion keeps getting made.

I thought I remembered reading something like this in Alyson Footer's mailbag or Justice's blog when Bagwell shut it down last summer.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

Quote:

Quote:

I can?t imagine how the Astros could collect on the insurance policy.   Bagwell was "healthy" enough to play in the fucking WORLD SERIES 3 months ago, so unless he got dravecky-ed during the off-season and it wasn?t reported, then he is going to be playing Spring Training.

I don?t blame the Astros for looking into the insurance policy, but they aint getting the money.    

Bagwell has earned the right to be on the team, but, barring bionic surgery, he needs to accept he is the 25th man on the roster, which I am sure Bags will do with the same class that he has exhibited throughout his career.  Berkman should be the everyday first baseman.

Quote:

I agree.  Apparently the language of the policy is vague enough to require interpretation of what being "disabled" entails.  If an insurance company is going to consider Jeff Bagwell (who started two games of the World Series, sparked a rally in the ninth inning of Game 2, and who presumably is healthier now than he was then) "disabled," then I want to buy my insurance from them.  Here's what really bothers me:

 

Quote:
It also appears that the franchise?s relationship with their veteran first baseman is irreparably damaged or, at least, in need of severe mending.

?It probably will never be fixed between me and the Astros,? Bagwell said Tuesday morning in his first public comments since general manager Tim Purpura declared Monday that Bagwell ?from a technical point of view right now he is a disabled player. He can?t play professional baseball -- certainly not at the National League at this point.?
 

It's not necessarily vague as Disability Insurance is not for disability in general but for the task or occupation specified.  If the contract stipulates "First Baseman", that would entail throwing, but they may not have specified which throw if they included "throwing" what so ever.  They are working on an agreed to definition or description of the role he fills.  If he can't do any one or more of those functions, he's "disabled".  The type of contract could accomodate "partial" disability or only provide for "yay or nay".  In this case, it's "yay or nay".  The Astros got feedback from 2 experts.  Now it's time for the third-party expert to concur or dissent.  If the insurance representative agrees, then there's room for negotiations to allow for Bagwell to disprove medical science.  

To net this all out, it's just another step in the proces.

p.s. This opinion is based on my wife's 9 yrs experience in disability insurance.

[astro pete]

Quote:
Really. What the fuck, mystery man? Spill it!

A bigger deal is being made out of this than I intended.  I know Phil Garner was approached by a doctor (who happens to be an Astros fan), who raised the possibility of teaching Bagwell to "throw" left-handed.  Phil Garner indicated that they'd actually tossed that possibility around before shelving it.  I doubt the idea ever received serious consideration.

[pravata]

Quote:

I can?t imagine how the Astros could collect on the insurance policy.   Bagwell was "healthy" enough to play in the fucking WORLD SERIES 3 months ago, so unless he got dravecky-ed during the off-season and it wasn?t reported, then he is going to be playing Spring Training.

I don?t blame the Astros for looking into the insurance policy, but they aint getting the money.    

Bagwell has earned the right to be on the team, but, barring bionic surgery, he needs to accept he is the 25th man on the roster, which I am sure Bags will do with the same class that he has exhibited throughout his career.  Berkman should be the everyday first baseman.

The Astros bought insurance in case he couldn't play for the Astros, not any other team.  The Astros are an NL team, NL teams dont have DHs, which is how Bagwell was able to play in the WS.  If he can't throw, by whatever criteria the insurance thinks applicable, the coverage applies.

[Gizzmonic]

Don't laugh-he's been working with Billy Wags this off-season.  Jeff's saving his 100 mph fastball for those insurance adjusters.  And after he blows it by 'em, the Astros will have no remorse trading Everett and Lidge for Miguel Tejada.  Bagwell will retire with 40 SV and 40 PH RBI, winning Cy Young as the best darn closer/PH the world has yet seen.

[Reuben]

Quote:
Don't laugh-he's been working with Billy Wags this off-season.  Jeff's saving his 100 mph fastball for those insurance adjusters.  And after he blows it by 'em, the Astros will have no remorse trading Everett and Lidge for Miguel Tejada.  Bagwell will retire with 40 SV and 40 PH RBI, winning Cy Young as the best darn closer/PH the world has yet seen.

Why, that's ridiculous. No closer is worth 17 mil.

[mihoba]

Quote:
If McLane claimed Bagwell was damaged during Hurricane Rita, he's probably screwed.

That's the truth. Luckly, all I had was superficial damage, so I didn't even bother filing a claim on my homeowners insurance, and except for debris pickup, FEMA actually came through (for me anyway).

How did you come out?