Bagwell plans to report, though Astros say he's hurt

[Golden Sombrero]

The plot thickens.  Not a good situation on either end, and this is the line that scares me the most:

 The dispute, he said, may have damaged his relationship with the team forever.
  "It probably will never be fixed between me and the Astros," the first baseman told the newspaper.

The Link

[JimR]

please be quiet, Jeff.

[No? in Austin]

Quote:
please be quiet, Jeff.

Ah, but it is not winter off-season unless surly Jeff Bagwell is blasting his sharp, most times ill-advised, criticism of the Houston Astros.  He done this since the mid-90s after he won his MVP and has not stopped since.  Usually, spring training calms him down and he shuts up.  Even becomes somewhat complimentary of the team, the players individually and even the organization.

This time, the object disdain for the team that begets Bagwell's harsh words is himself.  Usually it has been about other players, such as Carl Everett, Moises Alou or Brad Ausmus.  Same song in a sense, just that this time it is all about Bagwell of which he speaks.

[Tralfaz]

OK, I'll bite.  What were his harsh words concerning Brad Ausmus and Alou?  Everett I can probably figure out.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Like most Astros fans I hate to see this going down this way. On one hand you have a franchise icon, who underwent surgery less than one year ago, with the hope that it would extend his career, only wanting to let it play out. On the other hand is the employer who doesn't want to pay an unproductive employee 15 or million dollars. Compounding the issue is the insurance policy and the promise of salary compensation if the player shuts it down, and the opinion of medical professionals regarding the ability of a patient to perform his job adequately. I wish Bagwell would keep some of his opinions to his self but I really can't blame the guy, he isn't convinced he can't make the throws until he tries again. That was the whole point behind the surgery.

[MusicMan]

Quote:
OK, I'll bite.  What were his harsh words concerning Brad Ausmus and Alou?  Everett I can probably figure out.

Harsh words about the club's treatment of them, not about them as individuals.

[No? in Austin]

Quote:

Quote:
OK, I'll bite.  What were his harsh words concerning Brad Ausmus and Alou?  Everett I can probably figure out.

Harsh words about the club's treatment of them, not about them as individuals.

Yup, sorry I wasn't as clear in my criptic message as I should've been.  Jeff Bagwell is usually sought out by the beatwriters/columnist, mainly in Houston but sometimes by national guys like Hal Bodley and others, wishing to have some quotes and copy on how well from a players persepective the Houston Astros are doing shaping the team in the off-season.  Typically, Bagwell has sharp criticism of the Houston Astros.

When Brad Ausmus was traded in 1999 to make room for Mitch Melusky, Bagwell went off on the team and organization.  I remember him saying something to the effect of "Everyone knows you cannot win a championship with a rookie catcher behind the plate... name one team that has done it!".  When Carl Everett was traded, he said "They traded away the team MVP... doesn't make sense at all.  Now we have to rely on kids like Richard Hidalgo to carry the load.  Who knows who else, maybe that kid named Berkman will help.  That is asking a lot of a young player."  His words about the team without Alou were more low key, but privately he was not very happy with Hunsicker.  He lobbied hard to have McLane re-sign Alou last year, but in the end they went another way.  By the time spring training comes around, Bagwell is less surly, basically because he is in his element, the ball field.

Jeff Bagwell is very typical of ballfield guy.  Away from this element, he tends to be a little lost and shows it in his 'tude.  On the field (or near it), he is 100% good guy who is a class teammate and ballplayer.  It is not uncommon to find the superstars to be just like this unless they have another hobby (like hunting, fishing or golf) that can be subsituted for the missing element of the ballfield in thier lives.

I'm only an amatuer ballplayer, or was an amatuer ballplayer (haven't played in four years now), but every once and awhile I can't stand it that I'm not *on* the field playing ball.  I can be a very different person *on* the field than I am away from it.  So I can imagine how much more maginified it is for a guy like Bagwell and others who play this wonderful game at it's highest level.  We can only hope we understand just a tiny bit *what* they say and do away from the field to provide the *why* they say such things.  We're ultimately fans of the game and some of these nuances can be lost to us.  I have learn, just a tad, to take what a ballplayer says *away* from his element, with a grain of salt and realize it usually will sway towards the surly and harsh.

[pravata]

Quote:

Quote:
please be quiet, Jeff.

Ah, but it is not winter off-season unless surly Jeff Bagwell is blasting his sharp, most times ill-advised, criticism of the Houston Astros.  He done this since the mid-90s after he won his MVP and has not stopped since.  Usually, spring training calms him down and he shuts up.  Even becomes somewhat complimentary of the team, the players individually and even the organization.

This time, the object disdain for the team that begets Bagwell's harsh words is himself.  Usually it has been about other players, such as Carl Everett, Moises Alou or Brad Ausmus.  Same song in a sense, just that this time it is all about Bagwell of which he speaks.

Another one was the mini-controversy in 2000 of who hits first, Biggio or Cedeno.  January Jeff invited both Dierker and Hunsicker to step into the alley.

[Arky Vaughan]

What's so ill-advised about a player who had surgery and has been working to get his shoulder back into some semblance of playing form expressing public disappointment that his employer might not even permit him back on the field to give it a try?

[JimR]

that was a lot more than expressing "disappointment." take off your Bagwell glasses.

[Arky Vaughan]

Quote:
that was a lot more than expressing "disappointment." take off your Bagwell glasses.

So, your problem is with the hyperbole?

[JimR]

my problem is what he said.

[Arky Vaughan]

Quote:
my problem is what he said.

Then feel free to ignore it.

[Foghorn]

My problem is the Astros bought a shitty insurance contract, putting them in a position where if there is any grey (or is it gray?) area the only possible end result is a bitter, public pissing contest.

[MusicMan]

Quote:
My problem is the Astros bought a shitty insurance contract, putting them in a position where if there is any grey (or is it gray?) area the only possible end result is a bitter, public pissing contest.

I've been thinking about this.  I think the insurance contract is shitty.  I think the Astros were foolish to get such a shitty deal.

I also think that a lot of this could have been avoided with an upfront conversation:

"Jeff, we know you're doing everything possible to come bakc.  We really hope you're ready to play.  Unfortunately, this insurance deal says to file by Jan. 31.  So, we're going to quietly file that paperwork, but we still hope that you're ready to go for opening day."

How would that have not helped the situation?

[BizidyDizidy]

My guess is that no one thought he would be in a situation where there was a question as to whether he was disabled. How often does that happen? I guess that should've planned for that contingency, but it mostly seems like bad luck.

[Foghorn]

See, if the Astros truly believe Bagwell is disabled and can't play, why don't they just cut him?  Because if they do, some team will wait until he clears waivers and then will pick him up for the league minimum and take a chance on him either being a pinch hitter or a DH.  Thus killing the Astros claim he is medically disabled.

The Astros bought an asset that they really can't ever use.  That in order to use it they have to go through tons of red tape, hurt feelings, bad publicity and attorney's fees that are going to cut into the payout.

Drayton (possibly) made a bad business decision in the Bagwell contract.  Drayton (definitely) made a bad business decision in the insurance.  

This won't end well.  Then again, nothing ever does or it wouldn't end.

Drayton, suck it up, chalk up the loss to lessons learned, and move on.

[pravata]

Quote:

Quote:
My problem is the Astros bought a shitty insurance contract, putting them in a position where if there is any grey (or is it gray?) area the only possible end result is a bitter, public pissing contest.

I've been thinking about this.  I think the insurance contract is shitty.  I think the Astros were foolish to get such a shitty deal.

I also think that a lot of this could have been avoided with an upfront conversation:

"Jeff, we know you're doing everything possible to come bakc.  We really hope you're ready to play.  Unfortunately, this insurance deal says to file by Jan. 31.  So, we're going to quietly file that paperwork, but we still hope that you're ready to go for opening day."

How would that have not helped the situation?

Mclane said

"In the original policy, (the insurance company) claims that he could not come to Spring Training," McLane said. "We're going to take all of the information we have and meet with them and see if there is any opportunity (for Bagwell to play in Spring Training). Jeff just wants the opportunity."

Meanwhile ass clown Justice is still stirring the pot. He's now suggesting that this situation will have an effect on future negotiations with other players.

[JaneDoe]

Happy Birthday BizidyDizidy!!!!!  Hope you have many, many more!

[Lefty]

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Unfortunately, this insurance deal says to file by Jan. 31.  So, we're going to quietly file that paperwork, but we still hope that you're ready to go for opening day."

How would that have not helped the situation?

From my recollection of the initial media coverage, and from Drayton's comments on the radio yesterday (close paraphrase "We would have very much preferred that this be handled privately"), the fault for this getting played out in the media lies squarely in the Bagwell/Axelrod camp.

Agreed on the questionable insurance policy.  Though I have no idea what the industry standards & common practices are with regards to baseball contracts, my rather limited experience with property & commercial casualty policies leads me to believe that just about anything is negotiable, for the right price.

[das]

This is a very generous tilt towards management.  Their job is to place a viable product on the feild and build in contingencies.  The very nature of a plan like the one the Astros purchased is to guard against financial loss should a component of the product fail.  Like any insured component in a system, whether it be a key person in an organization or a server in a data center, you push a go/no-go decision to the latest possible time to reduce decision variabilities.  This is Business 101, not rocket science.  Management dropped the ball.

Happy birthday, btw.

[Foghorn]

Quote:
My guess is that no one thought he would be in a situation where there was a question as to whether he was disabled. How often does that happen? I guess that should've planned for that contingency, but it mostly seems like bad luck.

Is a pitcher with a frayed labrum "medically disabled" or just not as effective as they were previously?  Wade Miller?  Medically disabled?  carlos hernandez?  medically disabled?  Is Bagwell's injury pushing him out of the league or is it his contract?

Drayton bought a shitty insurance policy.  The fact that the defnitions and interpretations are up in the air speaks volumes.  And bagwell is in the middle.  he can either get paid and try to play baseball or he can get paid and stay at home.  Bagwell becomes the bad guy for trying to play baseball.  The shitty insurance contract is putting Bagwell in a bad position.  A position he didn't cause.

That said, he (and everyone else) should just zip it.

[jaklewein]

Quote:

Quote:
My guess is that no one thought he would be in a situation where there was a question as to whether he was disabled. How often does that happen? I guess that should've planned for that contingency, but it mostly seems like bad luck.

Is a pitcher with a frayed labrum "medically disabled" or just not as effective as they were previously?  Wade Miller?  Medically disabled?  carlos hernandez?  medically disabled?  Is Bagwell's injury pushing him out of the league or is it his contract?

Drayton bought a shitty insurance policy.  The fact that the defnitions and interpretations are up in the air speaks volumes.  And bagwell is in the middle.  he can either get paid and try to play baseball or he can get paid and stay at home.  Bagwell becomes the bad guy for trying to play baseball.  The shitty insurance contract is putting Bagwell in a bad position.  A position he didn't cause.

That said, he (and everyone else) should just zip it.

Perfect!