Let this sink in

[juliogotay]

2.63 team ERA over last 12 games. 4-8 W-L record including losing 5 of 6 to the Cubs and Royals (the KC series at home). This offense has really come-back-to-earth since the first month of the season when they were patient, taking walks, stealing bases, getting extra base hits. Holes everywhere in this lineup.

As I look at the positional players I can only see Altuve and Martinez as guys you want to build around. Disclaimer: Lawrie not in that group because I expect him to be dealt before his contract expires.

[Ron Brand]

Hold your hand up if the only surprising part going into this season is the ERA.

I see.

[subnuclear]

The team ERA is 4.35 which is third worst in the NL. Is that surprising?

[Ron Brand]

The team ERA is 4.35 which is third worst in the NL. Is that surprising?

Surprising that the starters' ERA is pretty good, and that the team ERA could get below 4 for any stretch, yep. This is the beauty part of rebuilding.

[Mike S.]

As I look at the positional players I can only see Altuve and Martinez as guys you want to build around. Disclaimer: Lawrie not in that group because I expect him to be dealt before his contract expires.

For pitchers, I have to think Norris and Lyles.  Beyond that, I'm not sure.

[Mr. Happy]

For pitchers, I have to think Norris and Lyles.  Beyond that, I'm not sure.

Lyles needs to learn how to keep the ball in the yard. As for Norris, I still think that he'd be more effective as a late inning reliever, but we need starters so badly (despite the recent run) that I have no problem keeping him there.

[roadrunner]

Not sold on Martinez being a keeper.

[Mr. Happy]

Not sold on Martinez being a keeper.

Why do you say that? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you; I'm just curious as to your reasons for saying that. Does it have to do with his cold spell earlier this season? His base running mental blunders lately? Please enlighten me.

[HudsonHawk]

Not sold on Martinez being a keeper.

I like Martinez.  I think he *is* a keeper.  But bejeebus he's raw right now.  He needs a lot of work.  Still, he's got a quick bat and he's strong in the upper body, keeps his weight back well, etc, etc.  He has a long swing, which means he gets beat up and inside, and he still needs some plate discipline, but I think he'll be a good hitter in the long run. 

[roadrunner]

Why do you say that? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you; I'm just curious as to your reasons for saying that. Does it have to do with his cold spell earlier this season? His base running mental blunders lately? Please enlighten me.

His slump earlier this year was hard to watch and it still sticks with me.  Physically he's impressive (in terms of size) and I like his approach, but his swing is a little awkward.  Too much slap for such a big guy who can't run and is limited to playing left field.

To me he's somewhere in between Richard Hidalgo (without the raw power) and Hunter Pence (without the speed).  Both are fine players to have but I don't think a team in the Astros position should nail down a player like that to the ship.

[jbm]

The guy is definitely a keeper.  He has shown he can hit and he has shown he will battle through and make adjustments.  Once a player has demonstrated talent, the second part is all that matters, IMO.

[roadrunner]

I don't know what we're defining "keeper" as.  Luhnow said a couple of weeks ago that everyone on the team is available but Altuve would take a lot to get.  I think that's the right approach. 

[juliogotay]

For pitchers, I have to think Norris and Lyles.  Beyond that, I'm not sure.

I'm losing faith in Lyles. I know he's young and probably rushed a bit. I just don't see him being more than a journeyman 5th starter. His stuff is mediocre.

[juliogotay]

Martinez, in about 3/4ths of one year of MLB service time has 16 HRs and 82 RBIs. His average is down this year but I'm sure the league has adjusted to him and he's had a good run since they adjusted his stance recently. His play in LF is quite adaquate. I don't see anything to be discouraged about at this stage other than some very poor baserunning of late.

[hostros7]

Several posters on this board need to take a giant Xanax.  If you didn't expect growing pains this year, I don't know how to help you.  This team is made up primarily of journeymen and guys who should still be in the minors. 

We are watching a bunch of guys who should be trying to figure it out at AA and AAA try to figure it out in the bigs.  And, as we all know, they throw ungodly breaking stuff in the show.  The reality is that if this current roster produces a small core to build on (Altuve, Martinez, Norris, Lyles) it will be a positive development.  The talent that has the potential to elevate this team back to playoff contention is all in A/AA.

Last night game sucked to watch.  But, at least it's baseball, and it's still in the NL. The histrionics that have started to become pervasive here belong in either a) your dear diary entry or b) chron comment section.

[jbm]

I'm losing faith in Lyles. I know he's young and probably rushed a bit. I just don't see him being more than a journeyman 5th starter. His stuff is mediocre.

I can understand the sentiment, especially after last night, but disagree wholeheartedly.  I remain very bullish on him and not only expect him to be way better than a 5th starter, but still feel he has frontline potential.  Actually, I still expect him to reach it, barring injury.  However, I am taking a long view: what he will be as a mature, 27 year old pitcher, not a 22 year old pitcher.

[Ron Brand]

Several posters on this board need to take a giant Xanax.  If you didn't expect growing pains this year, I don't know how to help you.  This team is made up primarily of journeymen and guys who should still be in the minors. 

We are watching a bunch of guys who should be trying to figure it out at AA and AAA try to figure it out in the bigs.  And, as we all know, they throw ungodly breaking stuff in the show.  The reality is that if this current roster produces a small core to build on (Altuve, Martinez, Norris, Lyles) it will be a positive development.  The talent that has the potential to elevate this team back to playoff contention is all in A/AA.

Last night game sucked to watch.  But, at least it's baseball, and it's still in the NL. The histrionics that have started to become pervasive here belong in either a) your dear diary entry or b) chron comment section.

I am as guilty of jumping on the negative as anyone, but thank you for this.

[Bench]

Several posters on this board need to take a giant Xanax.  If you didn't expect growing pains this year, I don't know how to help you.  This team is made up primarily of journeymen and guys who should still be in the minors. 

We are watching a bunch of guys who should be trying to figure it out at AA and AAA try to figure it out in the bigs.  And, as we all know, they throw ungodly breaking stuff in the show.  The reality is that if this current roster produces a small core to build on (Altuve, Martinez, Norris, Lyles) it will be a positive development.  The talent that has the potential to elevate this team back to playoff contention is all in A/AA.

Last night game sucked to watch.  But, at least it's baseball, and it's still in the NL. The histrionics that have started to become pervasive here belong in either a) your dear diary entry or b) chron comment section.

Exactly.  And frankly, if there are more than four people on this squad still on the team in four years it's probably a bad sign for the club's future.

[juliogotay]

Exactly.  And frankly, if there are more than four people on this squad still on the team in four years it's probably a bad sign for the club's future.

Agree. Although I think there are 5-6 that have a chance to be keepers. I'm still thinking Castro will work out, Altuve, J.D., and a couple among Lyles, Norris, Kuechel.

[HudsonHawk]

Agree. Although I think there are 5-6 that have a chance to be keepers. I'm still thinking Castro will work out, Altuve, J.D., and a couple among Lyles, Norris, Kuechel.

Castro will never be more than a journeyman.  As long as he stays in shape, he'll stick around in the league because he hits lefthanded.  But that's about it.

[jbm]

There are a lot more than four with potential, IMO.  Harrell, Kuechel (people blowing him off already), Castro, Lopez, Bogey as an extra outfielder.  I'd include Schafer if he had a better attitude about failure.  In addition to those previously named, these all have potential to contribute to a winning club.  

[jbm]

Castro will never be more than a journeyman.  As long as he stays in shape, he'll stick around in the league because he hits lefthanded.  But that's about it.

Seems a bit early IMO, to take such a definitive stand on a player with so little service time, and who has improved throughout the year. 

[HudsonHawk]

Seems a bit early IMO, to take such a definitive stand on a player with so little service time, and who has improved throughout the year. 

I don't base that on his numbers this year.  I just know what I see, and it's a mediocre catcher.

[juliogotay]

There are a lot more than four with potential, IMO.  Harrell, Kuechel (people blowing him off already), Castro, Lopez, Bogey as an extra outfielder.  I'd include Schafer if he had a better attitude about failure.  In addition to those previously named, these all have potential to contribute to a winning club.  

I forgot about Harrell. He's already very solid.

[Mr. Happy]

I like Martinez.  I think he *is* a keeper.  But bejeebus he's raw right now.  He needs a lot of work.  Still, he's got a quick bat and he's strong in the upper body, keeps his weight back well, etc, etc.  He has a long swing, which means he gets beat up and inside, and he still needs some plate discipline, but I think he'll be a good hitter in the long run. 

+1 Emphasis on a lot of work, especially on the pitches in on the hands. He fought one off last night for a double to RF on a dink, which was a little encouraging.

[Andyzipp]

Seems a bit early IMO, to take such a definitive stand on a player with so little service time, and who has improved throughout the year. 

And one who is one year removed from major knee surgery.

[Mr. Happy]

There are a lot more than four with potential, IMO.  Harrell, Kuechel (people blowing him off already), Castro, Lopez, Bogey as an extra outfielder.  I'd include Schafer if he had a better attitude about failure.  In addition to those previously named, these all have potential to contribute to a winning club.  

I agree with some of this. However, I'm not ready to call Keuchel or Castro players with potential. I dislike a lot of Castro's game, particularly his sub-par production against lefties as well as his blocking balls in the dirt, although I do like his general plate approach as he finds himself in more favorable counts than not. Keuchel strikes me as a pitcher who will have to be perfect in order to succeed, but he is winning me over, particularly in his last start when he competed through a lack of command and lots of traffic to only surrender one earnie.

Harrell has the potential and the stuff to be great in my opinion. I love his fiery nature and intensity out there. Lopez is a very solid late-inning guy and still can't believe we got him off of the waiver wire. Bogusevic is nothing more than a reserve in my book. In my opinion, Schreefer has nothing but fielding and speed going for him-he can't hit much of a lick (.116 against portsiders), even much against righties (.260). He's an eight in any big league lineup, and I believe that good NL ballclubs need much more hitting production from an up-the-middle position like CF. 

[geezerdonk]

You can see glimpses of a top notch major league hitter in Martinez. His production numbers at this early stage of his career are impressive.