Now tied for third place

[Houston]

With the Astros sweep of St. Louis, we are now tied with Milwaukee for third place in the division.

Interestingly, the good guys have now scored exactly 500 runs and allowed exactly 600.

[subnuclear]

Of the remaining 29 games they only have 10 games against teams with a winning record (6 with CIN, 4 with LAD).  If the team goes 19-10 it would be at exactly 0.500 for the season. They were 17-12 in August. 

[Alkie]

it would be at exactly 0.500 for the season.

That just seems impossible to even imagine.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

That just seems impossible to even imagine that you would taunt the BBGs in such a manner!

FIFY

[Limey]

That just seems impossible to even imagine.

It's easy if you try.

[Noe]

It's easy if you try.

You might say I'm a dreamer.

[NeilT]

Apparently I'm not the only one.

[Noe]

I hope other Astro fans would join us.

[EasTexAstro]

and the squirrel will have more fun.

[MusicMan]

Am I the only one who believes "Imagine" is a terrible song?

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

Am I the only one who believes "Imagine" is a terrible song?

Thank you. 

[Bench]

Am I the only one who believes "Imagine" is a terrible song?

I'm warming up to the squirrel version.

[Ty in Tampa]

Am I the only one who believes "Imagine" is a terrible song?

Of course it is. Forrest Gump wrote it.

[Ebby Calvin]

Am I the only one who believes "Imagine" is a terrible song?

For the life of me, I can't think of one reason why it's a bad song.  Terrible?  No.

[MusicMan]

For the life of me, I can't think of one reason why it's a bad song.  Terrible?  No.

First of all, I've never cared for Lennon as a singer.  It's simplistic.  It's repetitive.  I could go on.

[Ebby Calvin]

First of all, I've never cared for Lennon as a singer.  It's simplistic.  It's repetitive.  I could go on.

Fair enough.

[Houston]

For the life of me, I can't think of one reason why it's a bad song.  Terrible?  No.

I love John Lennon's music with the Beatles and afterwards. I still hate "Imagine."

[Lurch]

First of all, I've never cared for Lennon as a singer.  It's simplistic.  It's repetitive.  I could go on.

How about "I Want You (She's so Heavy)"

It's all of those things, and I love that one

[Guinness]

First of all, I've never cared for Lennon as a singer.  It's simplistic.  It's repetitive.  I could go on.

As a singer in general, or just when singing slower, ballad type songs?  He had one of the great rock'n'roll voices of all time.

[MusicMan]

As a singer in general, or just when singing slower, ballad type songs?  He had one of the great rock'n'roll voices of all time.

Strangely, perhaps, in general.  I've grown to appreciate the Beatles, but I never loved them, and it was a big reason why.

[NeilT]

What's not to like about Imagine?  I'm guessing these are the same people excited about the Van Halen/Triumph tour on the other thread.  The guy was worrying through heroin addiction with Yoko in New York.  He was allowed somnolent music to go with Mother.

[Limey]

First of all, I've never cared for Lennon as a singer.  It's simplistic.  It's repetitive.  I could go on.

First of all, I've never cared for Lennon as a singer.  It's simplistic.  It's repetitive.  I could go on.

[austro]

First of all, I've never cared for Lennon as a singer.  It's simplistic.  It's repetitive.  I could go on.

Is that why they kicked you out of the old country?

[Limey]

As a singer in general, or just when singing slower, ballad type songs?  He had one of the great rock'n'roll voices of all time.

My "go to" karoake song is "Twist and Shout".  I strain as much as Lennon did to sing it, but I think that makes it more authentic.  As I tell people, The Beatles used to do this at the end of a set, because Lennon's voice was fucked afterwards.

[Limey]

What's not to like about Imagine?  I'm guessing these are the same people excited about the Van Halen/Triumph tour on the other thread.  The guy was worrying through heroin addiction with Yoko in New York.  He was allowed somnolent music to go with Mother.

That's ok, Neil.  I hope some day they'll join us, and the world can live as one.  Until then, fuck the Cubs.

[NeilT]

First of all, I've never cared for Lennon as a singer.  It's simplistic.  It's repetitive.  I could go on.

I don't think you get to criticize rock and roll for being simplistic and repetitive.  I think you get to criticize rock and roll if it's not simplistic and repetitive. 

[MusicMan]

I don't think you get to criticize rock and roll for being simplistic and repetitive.  I think you get to criticize rock and roll if it's not simplistic and repetitive. 

He was criticizing my criticism.

And "Imagine" is rock and roll only by virtue of the fact that Lennon wrote it.  If John Denver had written it note for note and word for word, most would dismiss it as crap.

[Limey]

He was criticizing my criticism.

And "Imagine" is rock and roll only by virtue of the fact that Lennon wrote it.  If John Denver had written it note for note and word for word, most would dismiss it as crap.

Like his flying.

[NeilT]

He was criticizing my criticism.

Was he?  I thought he was repeating it, and agreeing.

And "Imagine" is rock and roll only by virtue of the fact that Lennon wrote it.  If John Denver had written it note for note and word for word, most would dismiss it as crap.

"Imagine" is rock and roll because Lennon wrote it, just like "Love Me Tender" is rock and roll because Elvis sang it.  You think it sounds like a John Denver song?  It doesn't to me, but I can probably think of three or four John Denver songs I like.

[Bench]

If John Denver had written it note for note and word for word, most would dismiss it as crap.

Because if John Denver would have done it, it would have in fact been crap.  You can't separate the art from the artist. 

[Guinness]

Because if John Denver would have done it, it would have in fact been crap.  You can't separate the art from the artist. 

I was about to post the same thing:  if John Denver wrote it he'd be John Lennon.

[Bench]

Apropos of the Imagine debate, here's the ten worst beatles songs.

[Ron Brand]

There are no 'worst' Beatle songs. There are only 'less great' Beatle songs.

Doesn't apply to the solo stuff.

[austro]

Apropos of the Imagine debate, here's the ten worst beatles songs.

If those are the 10 worst things you've ever produced, you're pretty damned good.

[Bench]

If those are the 10 worst things you've ever produced, you're pretty damned good.

That's my take on the list.  There are several songs named there that I often find myself enjoyably humming to myself.

[HudsonHawk]

Apropos of the Imagine debate, here's the ten worst beatles songs.

Whoever wrote that has obviously never listened to the Beatles.

[Bill McLuggage]

Anyone who says that "Strawberry Fields Forever" is a 'worst' anything needs to clean the shit out of their ears.

[Limey]

There are no 'worst' Beatle songs. There are only 'less great' Beatle songs.

Doesn't apply to the solo stuff.

All the worst Beatles songs were released by Wings. 

[Bench]

That's my take on the list.  There are several songs named there that I often find myself enjoyably humming to myself.

I just wanted to hear myself say myself again.

[S.P. Rodriguez]

That said, Revolution 9 is pretty awful.  The rest of the list makes me wonder if the person making that list has any knowledge of the Beatles musical contemporaries or the overall progression of Rock'n Roll over the course of the Beatles existence.  Honestly, the list strikes me as ignorant ramblings of some teenager who thinks it's cool to bash a musical icon. 

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Revolution 9 is not a song, it is a sound collage. Lennon was having fun using studio effects mixing sound bites from various source material. It really should not be compared to other Beatles compositions. I used to hate it and skip right over it back in the old days when I would play the vinyl album. However, with the release of the digitally remastered version, I no longer hate it, in fact, it's quit interesting and one can hear things that didn't come out in the old version. Paul is dead. Turn me on dead man.

[Houston]

I'm going to the "world's largest Beatles inspired music festival" this weekend in D.C. I'm sure I can make a list of the 10 worst Beatles tribute bands by the end of it, but it'll be fun. My kids (ages 11, 13, 16) are all Beatles' fans too, and they're looking forward to it as much as I am.

I have one extra ticket is anyone wants to join us. It's free.

[Limey]

BTW, while you lot have been off-topic, the Astros have taken 3rd place outright from the Brewers.  Next up...the Jakes.

[strosrays]

Strangely, perhaps, in general.  I've grown to appreciate the Beatles, but I never loved them, and it was a big reason why.

I got totally into the 'Stones before I got into The Beatles.  I think the "which group was better" arguments are basically pointless, because for one thing it is like comparing apples to oranges.  I would guess most fans who got into the Beatles first will never fully appreciate the 'Stones, and vice-versa.

All that being said, I think Lennon had a fine rock and roll voice.  Rock and roll, the good kind, is more about feel than technical proficiency, anyway.  I used to listen to some of Joan Baez' renditions of Dylan material.  Baez had a great voice, and her version of a song like "I Shall Be Released" was beautiful, in its way.  But the raspy-voiced, oddly-inflected original had all the power and emotion and "feel" the cover version lacked.  You can guess which one I favored.  When Lennon was "on", his voice could be very emotive.  I am not personally a fan of anyone rehashing their primal scream therapy on vinyl, but the first LP with the Plastic Ono Band is full of powerful Lennon vocals, on songs like "Working Class Hero", "Well Well Well", etc.

I don't like "Imagine" either, for complicated, visceral reasons I really don't entirely understand.  I just think it is bad Utopianism, or something (as opposed to "Give Peace A Chance", for example, which I quite liked.)  And I don't like to see Lennon promoted at McCartney's expense (because I think McCartney was as important to the group as Lennon, and was an equal as a solo artist.)

But I cannot knock Lennon for his voice.  As has been pointed out, his vocals on "Twist And Shout" alone are classic.

[Guinness]

I don't like "Imagine" either, for complicated, visceral reasons I really don't entirely understand.  I just think it is bad Utopianism, or something (as opposed to "Give Peace A Chance", for example, which I quite liked.)  And I don't like to see Lennon promoted at McCartney's expense (because I think McCartney was as important to the group as Lennon, and was an equal as a solo artist.)

But I cannot knock Lennon for his voice.  As has been pointed out, his vocals on "Twist And Shout" alone are classic.

Responding to a comment by Paul McCartney, Lennon said  "So you think 'Imagine' ain't political? It's 'Working Class Hero' with sugar on it for conservatives like yourself!!"...so intentionally syrupy to make it more marketable.  

I agree with you on the comment about minimilizing McCartney's contribution to the Beatles:  I recently read a remark that I think sums it up:  from Rubber Sould to Magical Mystery Tour, Paul McCartney was the Beatles.  And I think any cursory listen to what's available from the Get Back sessions, or a read of Drugs, Divorce and a Slipping Image, which is an account of those sessions, will show that Macca worked the hardest to keep the band together.

[The Third Man]

Anyone who says that "Strawberry Fields Forever" is a 'worst' anything needs to clean the shit out of their ears.

Truth.

[ValpoCory]

I don't like "Imagine" either, for complicated, visceral reasons I really don't entirely understand.  I just think it is bad Utopianism, or something (as opposed to "Give Peace A Chance", for example, which I quite liked.)  And I don't like to see Lennon promoted at McCartney's expense (because I think McCartney was as important to the group as Lennon, and was an equal as a solo artist.)

"In the book Lennon in America, written by Geoffrey Giuliano, Lennon commented that the song was "an anti-religious, anti-nationalistic, anti-conventional, anti-capitalistic song ...." Lennon also described it as "virtually the Communist Manifesto"."

So naturally, it's the official song of America on New Year's Eve.

[Ron Brand]

Geoffrey Giuliano is an untalented hack who should never be taken seriously, especially when he writes about the Beatles.

[MusicMan]

Geoffrey Giuliano is an untalented hack who should never be taken seriously, especially when he writes about the Beatles.

But are you saying he misquoted Lennon?

[Ron Brand]

But are you saying he misquoted Lennon?

Given his track record of bullshit and without checking, I'd say it's as likely as not. He's really below Pinwheel as a bottom-feeding clown.

[MusicMan]

He's really below Pinwheel as a bottom-feeding clown.

Compare and contrast to JdJO and John Lopez?

[Ron Brand]

Just to expand - that sounds like something Lennon could have said, sure. Although he contradicted himself often, that is probably in large part what the song is. The irony is obvious and similar instances are all over the place. Did you see the Hoffman article in the Chron about the use of 'Born In The USA' at the Little League World Series?

Giuliano is known for taking random quotes, rewriting some of them, and assembling them in various forms to stitch together yet another book that he can sell. He uses and reuses and has created quite a cottage industry for himself just rearranging the same crap over and over.

[Guinness]

But are you saying he misquoted Lennon?

He seems to be the only source.
There is this from teh Playboy interview:
Sheff: On a new album, you close with "Hard Times Are Over (For a While)". Why?
Lennon: It's not a new message: "Give Peace a Chance" — we're not being unreasonable. Just saying "give it a chance." With "Imagine" we're asking, "can you imagine a world without countries or religions?" It's the same message over and over. And it's positive

[MusicMan]

Did you see the Hoffman article in the Chron about the use of 'Born In The USA' at the Little League World Series?

Hoffman has become a caricature of himself.  Really, Ken?  Everybody knows that "Born in the USA" is ironic, but you go with "Glory Days"??

And I hope when I get old I don't sit around thinking about it
but I probably will
Yeah, just sitting back trying to recapture
a little of the glory of, well time slips away
and leaves you with nothing mister but
boring stories of glory days

I know!  Let's tell all these kids that life will only get worse and worse from this day forward!!

[Ron Brand]

True, but the meat of the article was valid, that they unknowingly used that song in that setting. Ridiculous.

[JimR]

Hoffman has become a caricature of himself.  Really, Ken?  Everybody knows that "Born in the USA" is ironic, but you go with "Glory Days"??

And I hope when I get old I don't sit around thinking about it
but I probably will
Yeah, just sitting back trying to recapture
a little of the glory of, well time slips away
and leaves you with nothing mister but
boring stories of glory days

I know!  Let's tell all these kids that life will only get worse and worse from this day forward!!

when you play on national TV in a WS at 12, that is exactly what happens.

[Guinness]

I don't like "Imagine" either, for complicated, visceral reasons I really don't entirely understand.  I just think it is bad Utopianism, or something (as opposed to "Give Peace A Chance", for example, which I quite liked.)  

Then you may prefer this version

[Ty in Tampa]

Then you may prefer this version

Holy shit, that's funny.