McGwire admits to using 'roids

[Houston]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4816607

Link corrected

[MusicMan]

It's about time.

[Limey]

Still a lot of weaseling about the why and how much (to heal from and stave off further injuries...sure.  While the 200% muscle gain and blizzard of homers was because he'd been bitten by a radioactive spider), but at least it's now indisputable.  We'll let the baseball writers figure out, in their own Machiavellian ways, what this means for his HoF chances.

At least his new job isn't strength and conditioning coach.

[Ron Brand]

It's like picking at a scab that won't go away. It's like Lady Macbeth. How long before this gets behind us? Ugh.

[Limey]

It's like picking at a scab that won't go away. It's like Lady Macbeth. How long before this gets behind us? Ugh.

This only happened because he got his new job.  But the scab will keep getting picked every year until he loses eligibility for the Hall.  Of course, if he gets inducted, then the scab will get picked every year from then on, whenever another admitted or alleged juicer comes up for the vote.  But, if he fails to make the Hall, the scab will get picked every year from then on, whenever another admitted or alleged juicer comes up for the vote.

[Fredia]

did this quote come from mr obvious

[GreatBagwellsBeard]

I wouldn't be surprised if LaRussa recommended that he come clean.  .093 is playing a big part in rehabilitating McGuire's public image.

[VoR]

Now if we can just get Pujols to come clean.

[MusicMan]

Now if we can just get Pujols to come clean.

The consensual love between a grown player and manager should remain private.

[Alkie]

The consensual love between a grown player and manager should remain private.

I want a ruling on this...is a senior in college a "grown player"?

[Andyzipp]

Now if we can just get Pujols to come clean.

About steroids, his actual age, or what kind of dress LaRussa slips out of in his hotel room?

[Andyzipp]

I want a ruling on this...is a senior in college a "grown player"?

17 or 18 in most states. 12 and a quarter in Louisiana.

[MusicMan]

I want a ruling on this...is a senior in college a "grown player"?

Why didn't Meyer just point to the fact that "broken heart" is now a proven medical phenomenon?

[VoR]

17 or 18 in most states. 12 and a quarter in Louisiana.

I missed you guys.

[astrosfan76]

McGwire was on steroids?!  That just shattered my worldview.

[Ty in Tampa]

I'm fucking crushed.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

At least he didn't kill nobody or didn't rape nobody.

[Gizzmonic]

Michael Kupperman's reply: "In other news, The Thing has admitted to being exposed to cosmic radiation."

[homer]

At least he didn't kill nobody or didn't rape nobody.

Or drag his old lady around by her hair.

[toddthebod]

This should end any talk of him making the hall of fame.  If your only talent is hitting home runs, and reason why you are hitting so many home runs is because you are a cheater, you shouldn't make the hall of fame.

[BUWebguy]

This should end any talk of him making the hall of fame.  If your only talent is hitting home runs, and reason why you are hitting so many home runs is because you are a cheater, you shouldn't make the hall of fame.

I don't think I'd go that far. Whether the steroids were enough of a moral issue to keep him out is a legitimate question, but he clearly had good power before that, and that wasn't his only trick -- he was also pretty good at getting on base. I think you can make a good case either for or against him being HOF-worthy.

[Limey]

Or drag his old lady around by her hair.

Or suggest someone didn't use a negro dialect.

[HudsonHawk]

I don't think I'd go that far. Whether the steroids were enough of a moral issue to keep him out is a legitimate question, but he clearly had good power before that, and that wasn't his only trick -- he was also pretty good at getting on base. I think you can make a good case either for or against him being HOF-worthy.

That's kind of a disingenuous argument. The reason he got on base a lot was specifically *because* he hit a lot of home runs. It's not as if he possessed any of the other skills that would lead him to such.

[Mr. Happy]

This should end any talk of him making the hall of fame.  If your only talent is hitting home runs, and reason why you are hitting so many home runs is because you are a cheater, you shouldn't make the hall of fame.

I disagree. He belongs in the Hall. Greenies were rampant in baseball for decades. Other players cheated too.

[Gizzmonic]

I disagree. He belongs in the Hall. Greenies were rampant in baseball for decades. Other players cheated too.

Yeah, but he and Sosa are both players that (at least to me) seem 100% constructed by steroids.  At least with Bonds, he showed he was a good player without them.  McGwire was a one-trick pony, and that one trick was almost completely fueled by 'roids.

[Mr. Happy]

Yeah, but he and Sosa are both players that (at least to me) seem 100% constructed by steroids.  At least with Bonds, he showed he was a good player without them.  McGwire was a one-trick pony, and that one trick was almost completely fueled by 'roids.

All three of them belong in the Hall, in my opinion.

[VoR]

They forfeited their place in the hall by cheating.

The biggest load of BS is that McGwire says he thinks he would have hit those home runs with or without steroids.

If they go to the hall, I'm done with baseball until further notice.


They have millions of reasons to be happy w/o placement in the hall.

[Texifornia]

I disagree. He belongs in the Hall. Greenies were rampant in baseball for decades. Other players cheated too.

Doc Ellis should be in the HoF for pitching a no-no on LSD...I know there are some here that know how unbelievable that accomplishment was. If Tweet could have hit those dingers while trippin', then he'd have an argument for the Hall in my view.

[Russe]

I have a question to those of you that think that any admitted steroid user should be barred from the HoF: what about creatine? Is it not also a PED? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm serious--is it only wrong to use PEDs that are banned by MLB? Because creatine, while not as potent as steroids, will still help you gain significant muscle mass, and as far as I know, it hasn't been banned by MLB.

[VoR]

Creatine's fine.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

I got to get off my moral high horse for a minute here. I believe that the use of "unapproved things that make you stronger" was so pervasive that it's wrong to exclude the known users while giving a pass to the undiscovered users. Just because some people got away with using "unapproved things that make you stronger" it doesn't make them morally superior to those who got caught.

How many pitchers get a free ride because they weren't hitting homers? Recent discoveries sure include plenty of pitchers who were using. I suspect a large number of homers were hit off of juiced pitchers. I think Caminiti's personal story and admissions shed a lot of light on how much we don't really know. I think Bob Gibson's revelation that he probably would have use PEDs if he had them available also demonstrates an attitude that was always around.

While subscription numbers continue to dwindle, I'm sure the sanctimonious sports writers will continue to use the steroid issue as grist for they lack creativity and are salaciously drawn to controversy.

[Houston]

During McGwire's interview with Bob Costas last night, he said the steriods helped him recover from injuries but didn't have anything to do with his performance because they didn't affect hand-eye coordination. Really? Then why are they called PERFORMANCE ENHANCING drugs? If McGwire believes his stats weren't padded, why did he call Roger Maris' widow yesterday to apologize? And was he crying during the interview because he thought he should have allowed his body to heal on its own? I doubt it.

If PED's increased his strength by just 10%, that turns a 350-foot flyball out into a 385-foot home run. Yes, Mark, it enhanced your performance and probably by more than 10%.

But, to me, the most maddening comment he made was the one where he played the victim. He actually said, "I wish I didn't play during the 'steriods era.'" Mark -- you're the reason it's called the steroids era!

I think his admission is just as dishonest as his injections.

[Limey]

I disagree. He belongs in the Hall. Greenies were rampant in baseball for decades. Other players cheated too.

Greenies help(ed) players get up for the game, but they don't make them stronger.  Of course they were illegal, but they didn't have the same statistically anomalous effect as 'roids.  And don't forget that he also used HGH, which is for nothing other than bulking up and getting stronger so that more pop-flies become homers.

[Limey]

I have a question to those of you that think that any admitted steroid user should be barred from the HoF: what about creatine? Is it not also a PED? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm serious--is it only wrong to use PEDs that are banned by MLB? Because creatine, while not as potent as steroids, will still help you gain significant muscle mass, and as far as I know, it hasn't been banned by MLB.

If creatine isn't banned, then a player can use it.  It's very simple.  Steroids and HGH were banned at the time McGwire used them.  Game over.

[HudsonHawk]

If they go to the hall, I'm done with baseball until further notice.

Does that mean you'll notify us when you end your little protest?

[geezerdonk]

If they go to the hall, I'm done with baseball until further notice.

You could assume that its going to happen and get a head start.

[MusicMan]

All three of them belong in the Hall, in my opinion.

They're in the Hall.  Just like Rose.  And that's the only way any of them should be in.

[Bench]

If creatine isn't banned, then a player can use it.  It's very simple.  Steroids and HGH were banned at the time McGwire used them.  Game over.

I didn't think HGH was banned until 2003.

[HudsonHawk]

I didn't think HGH was banned until 2003.

HGH was banned in baseball whenever it was federally banned.  I don't remember the exact date.  However, HGH wasn't included as part of the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990 because of what was essentially a typo.  The intent was to include it, but it wasn't included in the text due to an administrative oversight.  The thinking on it didn't suddenly change.  Still, you are correct, it wasn't explicitly banned until later.

[jaklewein]

During McGwire's interview with Bob Costas last night, he said the steriods helped him recover from injuries but didn't have anything to do with his performance because they didn't affect hand-eye coordination. Really? Then why are they called PERFORMANCE ENHANCING drugs? If McGwire believes his stats weren't padded, why did he call Roger Maris' widow yesterday to apologize? And was he crying during the interview because he thought he should have allowed his body to heal on its own? I doubt it.

If PED's increased his strength by just 10%, that turns a 350-foot flyball out into a 385-foot home run. Yes, Mark, it enhanced your performance and probably by more than 10%.

But, to me, the most maddening comment he made was the one where he played the victim. He actually said, "I wish I didn't play during the 'steriods era.'" Mark -- you're the reason it's called the steroids era!

I think his admission is just as dishonest as his injections.

I actually watched a portion of the Bob Costas interview via ESPN News.  After the interview they cut away to get a certain reporter’s (wish I’d written down his name but didn’t) opinion on the situation and specifically his opinion regarding McGwire’s defense that steroids don’t help hand eye coordination.  He stated something along the lines that it’s well documented that steroids help people’s eye sight improve, by double in some cases.  I’d never heard that before.  Anyone else?

[Bench]

HGH was banned in baseball whenever it was federally banned.  I don't remember the exact date.  However, HGH wasn't included as part of the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 1990 because of what was essentially a typo.  The intent was to include it, but it wasn't included in the text due to an administrative oversight.  The thinking on it didn't suddenly change.  Still, you are correct, it wasn't explicitly banned until later.

When was HGH banned by the government?  It's certainly not currently banned.

[Lurch]

I actually watched a portion of the Bob Costas interview via ESPN News.  After the interview they cut away to get a certain reporter’s (wish I’d written down his name but didn’t) opinion on the situation and specifically his opinion regarding McGwire’s defense that steroids don’t help hand eye coordination.  He stated something along the lines that it’s well documented that steroids help people’s eye sight improve, by double in some cases.  I’d never heard that before.  Anyone else?

Not sure about steroids, but that was reportedly a very obvious and consistent benefit of HGH.  It was not only slowing degeneration but actually reversing it in patients (though I believe "improve" was relative to the patients' prior abilities rather than creating super-human eyesight, IIRC).

[Lurch]

When was HGH banned by the government?  It's certainly not currently banned.

Use without a prescription for valid medical reasons is, since 1988.

Link

[Bench]

Use without a prescription for valid medical reasons is, since 1988.

Link

That's what I thought.  Not banned.

[HudsonHawk]

That's what I thought.  Not banned.

When we say "banned" or "illegal" in the context of usage in MLB, I think it's pretty well understood that means "usage which violates federal law".  It's not meant to imply an absolute ban under any and all circumstances.

[Limey]

When we say "banned" or "illegal" in the context of usage in MLB, I think it's pretty well understood that means "usage which violates federal law".  It's not meant to imply an absolute ban under any and all circumstances.

This was my understanding, thus HGH was not permitted to be used by players, without a valid prescription, from the date of the Federal designation.  So, unless McTweet had a valid prescription...

[Houston]

This was my understanding, thus HGH was not permitted to be used by players, without a valid prescription, from the date of the Federal designation.  So, unless McTweet had a valid prescription...

1 bottle of HGH to be refilled as necessary for recovery from injury. This prescription will not be used for improving home run performance.

Signed,
Dr. Tony LaRussa, JD

[Bench]

When we say "banned" or "illegal" in the context of usage in MLB, I think it's pretty well understood that means "usage which violates federal law".  It's not meant to imply an absolute ban under any and all circumstances.

I was confused when you referred to the federal government banning it.

[HudsonHawk]

I was confused when you referred to the federal government banning it.

"Banning" is probably not the best term.  I should have said something like "regulated as a controlled substance".

[Limey]

Pooholes offers his support for McTweet's new-found honesty.  Presumably he wants this to work so that he can follow the same game plan for his own mea juica down the road.

[Reuben]

Pooholes offers his support for McTweet's new-found honesty.  Presumably he wants this to work so that he can follow the same game plan for his own mea juica down the road.

You know, you really have an unhealthy, irrational hatred of Prince Albert, and an almost desperate desire to see his image destroyed. And I am right there with you.

[Limey]

You know, you really have an unhealthy, irrational hatred of Prince Albert, and an almost desperate desire to see his image destroyed. And I am right there with you.

I hope McTweet and Pooholes get caught in a jacuzzi, spit-roasting an underaged boy.

[MusicMan]

I hope McTweet and Pooholes get caught in a jacuzzi, spit-roasting an underaged boy.

That's the most disturbing image I've read in quite some time.

[Alkie]

That's the most disturbing image I've read in quite some time.

No it's not.