Ft. Hood

[BudGirl]

Horrible news.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/texas.fort.hood.shootings/index.html

[OregonStrosFan]

Sickening.

[geezerdonk]

Not to far from the site of the Lubys mass murder.

[Fredia]

its like a nightmare you do not wake up from i read it was a major that did the shooting.

[jester9450]

bless those that are gone 

[Mr. Happy]

I don't understand such deviant behavior. God Bless the fallen and the injured.

[Bench]

I don't understand such deviant behavior. God Bless the fallen and the injured.

Crazies are crazies.  It seemed like the bulk of this afternoon's reporting was "what was his motivation?"  Much hay was made on certain channels that he was a Muslim; others focused on the fact that he was terrified of being deployed to a war he didn't believe in.  The simple fact is that he has a lot more problems than any simple answer can provide.  His issues are a lot deeper than any single belief.  The man is crazy, and this was a horrible tragedy that has no greater meaning beyond itself.

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

Crazies are crazies.  It seemed like the bulk of this afternoon's reporting was "what was his motivation?"  Much hay was made on certain channels that he was a Muslim; others focused on the fact that he was terrified of being deployed to a war he didn't believe in.  The simple fact is that he has a lot more problems than any simple answer can provide.  His issues are a lot deeper than any single belief.  The man is crazy, and this was a horrible tragedy that has no greater meaning beyond itself.

I tend to agree but there's a bit more to it than that. Most crazy people live their lives without going on murdering rampages. He wasn't killing without motivation.

[Ebby Calvin]

Crazies are crazies.  It seemed like the bulk of this afternoon's reporting was "what was his motivation?"  Much hay was made on certain channels that he was a Muslim; others focused on the fact that he was terrified of being deployed to a war he didn't believe in.  The simple fact is that he has a lot more problems than any simple answer can provide.  His issues are a lot deeper than any single belief.  The man is crazy, and this was a horrible tragedy that has no greater meaning beyond itself.

This.

[Guinness]

Crazies are crazies.  It seemed like the bulk of this afternoon's reporting was "what was his motivation?"  Much hay was made on certain channels that he was a Muslim; others focused on the fact that he was terrified of being deployed to a war he didn't believe in.  The simple fact is that he has a lot more problems than any simple answer can provide.  His issues are a lot deeper than any single belief.  The man is crazy, and this was a horrible tragedy that has no greater meaning beyond itself.

Agreed.  If he was a white Christian, he would have gravitated toward that fringe, a black psycho would gravitate toward fringe black groups;  I think you hit it on the head:  this is a crazy person who would have killed no matter what ethnicity/religion/sports team fandom he belonged to.
Did you read the online diary of the guy that killed those people in Pittsburgh?  That was scary...

[Limey]

Agreed.  If he was a white Christian, he would have gravitated toward that fringe, a black psycho would gravitate toward fringe black groups;  I think you hit it on the head:  this is a crazy person who would have killed no matter what ethnicity/religion/sports team fandom he belonged to.
Did you read the online diary of the guy that killed those people in Pittsburgh?  That was scary...

The BTK Killer was a deacon in his church.  I don't remember any of the news models questioning whether his Christian faith drove him to bind, torture and kill people.  Maybe he listened to Judas Priest in his spare time.

There appears to be evidence that Hasan was a devout Muslim (nothing wrong with that in and of itself), who had suffered religious persecution in and out of the military following 9/11.  Regardless, it seems that he was not a very rounded person and not a good soldier (only Major by dint of his being a medical specialist).  He may have been a bomb, ready to explode since the day he was born, just waiting for the World to pull the pin.

ETA:  More background on Hasan.

[BizidyDizidy]

The biggest potential religious issue in my opinion will be if warning signs were at some level ignored due to sensitivity about him being muslim. If so it is obviously an indictment of political correctness, not the islamic faith.

[geezerdonk]

This motherfucker had no business in the military. He shouldn't even be on KP much less counseling soldiers with PTSD. A minimally competent command structure would have identified him as a rotten apple and cashiered his ass long ago. The real villian here (aside from the asshole himself of course) is the Army personnel system that kept him in the service.

[Limey]

This motherfucker had no business in the military. He shouldn't even be on KP much less counseling soldiers with PTSD. A minimally competent command structure would have identified him as a rotten apple and cashiered his ass long ago. The real villian here (aside from the asshole himself of course) is the Army personnel system that kept him in the service.

Agreed.  Although I suspect that he may have been retained due to the military being totally strapped fighting two wars.  It's notable that he'd never been deployed while others have been deployed multiple times, but was about to be deployed shortly.  The military has been lowering its recruiting standards for years, to offset the falling number of sign-ups, so it's not a stretch to think that this also may be a symptom of the same problem.

[ybbodeus]

I haven't followed this for a day or two; have any groups come forward to offer aid in his defense to date?  Will his trial be handled by military justice or in public courts?

[subnuclear]

Agreed.  Although I suspect that he may have been retained due to the military being totally strapped fighting two wars.  It's notable that he'd never been deployed while others have been deployed multiple times, but was about to be deployed shortly.  The military has been lowering its recruiting standards for years, to offset the falling number of sign-ups, so it's not a stretch to think that this also may be a symptom of the same problem.

I work for Army physicians and its not unusual for them NOT to be deployed.  Most of the doctors I work for haven't been deployed to a war theatre.  If you have a serious medical problem, the first thing they do is get you on a plane to Germany then to WRAMC or Brooks or wherever.

The army doctors I think would agree with geezerdonk privately (very privately), but are mostly unhappy that WRAMC is associated with something negative again in the media.  

Also, the military hospital system leans more towards politically correctness and away from religious persecution. But I don't see that being most of the issue.

[MusicMan]

I haven't followed this for a day or two; have any groups come forward to offer aid in his defense to date?  Will his trial be handled by military justice or in public courts?

I'm not lawyer, but I don't see how this wouldn't be handled via court martial.

[Limey]

Hasan awake and talking.

[ybbodeus]

I'm not lawyer, but I don't see how this wouldn't be handled via court martial.

Wasn't sure if the involvement of a civilian fatality could create an issue in that regard.

[Mr. Happy]

The biggest potential religious issue in my opinion will be if warning signs were at some level ignored due to sensitivity about him being muslim. If so it is obviously an indictment of political correctness, not the islamic faith.

Biz, you nailed it.

[Guinness]

The biggest potential religious issue in my opinion will be if warning signs were at some level ignored due to sensitivity about him being muslim. If so it is obviously an indictment of political correctness, not the islamic faith.

But would you say the same thing if he was a christian?

[Mr. Happy]

But would you say the same thing if he was a christian?

Why wouldn't you?

[ybbodeus]

If he were a Christian, a made for HBO movie would already be in the can.

[Guinness]

Why wouldn't you?

I just thought Biz's phrasing was curious.

[geezerdonk]

The BTK Killer was a deacon in his church.  I don't remember any of the news models questioning whether his Christian faith drove him to bind, torture and kill people.

I will never forget the news images of thousands of Lutherans worldwide pouring in to the streets to cheer the demise of his victims.

[JimR]

Agreed.  If he was a white Christian, he would have gravitated toward that fringe, a black psycho would gravitate toward fringe black groups;  I think you hit it on the head:  this is a crazy person who would have killed no matter what ethnicity/religion/sports team fandom he belonged to.
Did you read the online diary of the guy that killed those people in Pittsburgh?  That was scary...

glad you've got all the mysteries solved and the personalities analyzed. ever consider shutting the fuck up and waiting to see what the investigation demonstrates?

[BizidyDizidy]

But would you say the same thing if he was a christian?

No, I don't think anyone would have any reason to fear an incident for dealing with a Christian who made questionable statements or acted strangely. For one reason we are not currently engaged in armed conflicts against Christian-led nations. If the Army kicked out a devout Muslim for "acting strangely" or making odd foreign policy statements, there might be an issue. To be clear the main fault would still lie with the people who didn't do anything about for fear of some backlash. And for all I know, it didn't play a role. All I said was that if he was religion was a real factor, it was probably due to this type of political correctness (as opposed to his faith predisposing him to violence or any other kind of role).

[Limey]

I will never forget the news images of thousands of Lutherans worldwide pouring in to the streets to cheer the demise of his victims.

Not the point.  They would have celebrated the deaths if it were the result of a busted gas pipe.

[Guinness]

No, I don't think anyone would have any reason to fear an incident for dealing with a Christian who made questionable statements or acted strangely.

I understand your point with your expanded post (thanks), but I don't see how you would find a Christian (for example) any more or less capable of violent acts than a muslim, or atheist or hindu.

And Jim, I'll make sure starting from my next post to PM them to you first for approval.

[BizidyDizidy]

I understand your point with your expanded post (thanks), but I don't see how you would find a Christian (for example) any more or less capable of violent acts than a muslim, or atheist or hindu.

I wouldn't. I still don't think you understand my point. Here was my point:

Since we live in a world where people ask questions like "But would you say the same thing if he was a christian?", and because there is potentially a very sensitive issue about the treatment of American Muslims in our military currently, I think it's possible that things were let slide or ignored (odd behaviors, comments, warning signs in general) that might not have been otherwise (if he was just a super creepy white male for instance). I don't have any evidence that this was the case - I was just making the comment that it's the most likely way race/religion might have entered into the events (as opposed, for instance, to him being part of a vast international muslim conspiracy or that muslims are predisposed to violence, or any other number of things I don't believe to be the case).

[MRaup]

I understand your point with your expanded post (thanks), but I don't see how you would find a Christian (for example) any more or less capable of violent acts than a muslim, or atheist or hindu.

And Jim, I'll make sure starting from my next post to PM them to you first for approval.

That WFW rubber stamp I got him for Christmas is going to finally come in handy!

[Lurch]

That WFW rubber stamp I got him for Christmas is going to finally come in handy!

Good thing monitors are getting so cheap.

[JimR]

I understand your point with your expanded post (thanks), but I don't see how you would find a Christian (for example) any more or less capable of violent acts than a muslim, or atheist or hindu.

And Jim, I'll make sure starting from my next post to PM them to you first for approval.

you missed the main idea of STFU.

[Mr. Happy]

you missed the main idea of STFU.

Came through loud and clear to me, Coach.

[MRaup]

Came through loud and clear to me, Coach.

High inside heat usually does to the baseball players.

[Guinness]

you missed the main idea of STFU.

Jesus, did I piss in your Wheaties or something?  You're not making sense.

[homer]

I'm not lawyer, but I don't see how this wouldn't be handled via court martial.

Military justice experts told the Houston Chronicle that Hasan, if he recovers, could face the death penalty in a military court-martial — unless civilian prosecutors conclude that he was part of a terrorist plot that would justify moving his case into federal criminal courts under U.S. anti-terrorism laws.

But veterans of the military justice system say that any case against Hasan could take many months and could be delayed by medical assessments of the Army officer's physical and mental health. And even if a death sentence is handed down, the military justice system's lengthy appeals process has effectively thwarted all executions since 1961.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/military/6710592.html

[Col. Sphinx Drummond]

To be clear the main fault would still lie with the people who didn't do anything about for fear of some backlash.

Fucking A Allāhu Akbar, motherfuckers. It seems that poor son bitch pulling the trigger is the real victim here. Fucking society made him what he is. All because some malingering government bureaucrat asshole in Army personnel didn't check the right box because he had a boss that had a boss that wanted the retention ratio to improve by a margin of 0.13 on the bottom line of some government spread sheet--so he could show his boss how the numbers improved and prove what a great job he was doing. And now this poor Hassan doesn't want anybody to go to school or get their mail, just like a disgruntled postal worker or some school kid the Boomtown Rats sing about. But I think it will be okay as soon as Obama apologizes for the whole of mankind. I'm not jumping to any conclusions though. Allāhu Fucking Akbar.

[Outlawscotty]

I just thought Biz's phrasing was curious.

I thought it was spot on.  Pull your head out of the sand and look around.  And no, that is not an intended pun or joke.

[geezerdonk]

Not the point.  They would have celebrated the deaths if it were the result of a busted gas pipe.
[/quote

While dispatching his victims he would yell "Long Live the Missouri Synod."

[geezerdonk]

Assume that you are a member of the military and have decided to make the service your life's work. Which one of the following listed activities is guaranteed to bar any further promotion and end your career in ignominy?

A. Tell your CO to kiss your ass.
B. Show up for deployment naked with a neon mohawk.
C. Swipe a tank from the motor pool and go for an off-post joy ride.
D. Report misconduct by a Muslim soldier.

[Limey]

Military justice experts told the Houston Chronicle that Hasan, if he recovers, could face the death penalty in a military court-martial — unless civilian prosecutors conclude that he was part of a terrorist plot that would justify moving his case into federal criminal courts under U.S. anti-terrorism laws.

I believe that the military still carries out executions by firing squad.  Which is ironic since he's just undergone significant medical attention to help him recover from gun shot wounds.

[Limey]

Assume that you are a member of the military and have decided to make the service your life's work. Which one of the following listed activities is guaranteed to bar any further promotion and end your career in ignominy?

A. Tell your CO to kiss your ass.
B. Show up for deployment naked with a neon mohawk.
C. Swipe a tank from the motor pool and go for an off-post joy ride.
D. Report misconduct by a Muslim soldier.

A, B and C is why I eschewed a career in the military.  Especially A.

[subnuclear]

Assume that you are a member of the military and have decided to make the service your life's work. Which one of the following listed activities is guaranteed to bar any further promotion and end your career in ignominy?

A. Tell your CO to kiss your ass.
B. Show up for deployment naked with a neon mohawk.
C. Swipe a tank from the motor pool and go for an off-post joy ride.
D. Report misconduct by a Muslim soldier.

Very different for officers trying to make rank and enlisted, right? I would say the officers I know would never consider A-C and would be careful of D unless they had a record of misconduct or incompetence.  In this case, I think they did have a record of incompetence, but they chose to deal with it by banishment to lower position and passing him over for promotion rather than kicking him out. 

[Limey]

Very different for officers trying to make rank and enlisted, right? I would say the officers I know would never consider A-C and would be careful of D unless they had a record of misconduct or incompetence.  In this case, I think they did have a record of incompetence, but they chose to deal with it by banishment to lower position and passing him over for promotion rather than kicking him out. 

All they had to do was say that they saw him kissing a dude and...VOOM!  He's gone.

[Ty in Tampa]

I believe that the military still carries out executions by firing squad.  Which is ironic since he's just undergone significant medical attention to help him recover from gun shot wounds.

The military also hasn't carried out an execution since 1961.

[MusicMan]

American Muslims to Fort Hood shooter: "Thanks a lot, asshole!"

[Lurch]

The military also hasn't carried out an execution since 1961.

...

[geezerdonk]

NTTAWWT

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/celebrity/67664?cid=RSS

[Alkie]

...

Yes.