Author Topic: Footer says...  (Read 17999 times)

Mr. Happy

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Footer says...
« on: March 09, 2008, 11:07:09 am »
That the 25 man roster is pretty well set, with only one starting rotation slot and maybe two bully slots still open.

Who are the 25? Here's my take right now.

Everyday Starters

c Towles
1B Berkman
2B Matsui
SS Tejada
3B Wigginton
LF Lee
CF Bourn
RF Pence

Bench

Loretta
Erstad
Blum
Ausmus or Quintero
Cruz, Jr.
Abercrombie

Starting Rotation

Ozwalt
W. Rodriguez
Backe
Sampson
Chacon or Williams or any of 9 others


Bullpen

Valverde
Dejean
Brocail
McLemore (if he's not a starter)
Borkowski
Wright

I think that they'll start with 11 pitchers, but may switch to 12 as the season progresses.

Thoughts?
 
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Craig

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2008, 12:23:45 pm »
Are Villarreal and/or Geary expected to make the bullpen? I haven't been paying that much attention so I may have missed news about them.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2008, 12:43:28 pm »
The bullpen as you have it will have an ERA of about 7.

JimR

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2008, 12:57:54 pm »
Locks, imo:
William in rotation
Villareal in pen
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2008, 01:12:44 pm »
Are Villarreal and/or Geary expected to make the bullpen? I haven't been paying that much attention so I may have missed news about them.

Yes. Villarreal is one of the mainstays of the bullpen. He's slotted as the 7th inning guy in the Villarreal-Brocail-Valverde back-end of the pen. Geary is likely to make it because he's had experience, but he's a middle inning guy for the most part and his job is hardly assurred.

Happy likes to make these lists off the top of his head without putting a whole lot of thought into them. Why would Cheito and Abercrombie both be on the team? And why Ausmus or Quintero? I think Ausmus' spot on the team is about as certain as things get.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 01:14:45 pm by Bench »
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2008, 01:19:32 pm »
Id like to see Gervacio in the pen...

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2008, 01:22:18 pm »
Way too soon, imo
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2008, 02:19:39 pm »
No way that McLemore and Wright both are in the Pen.

Mr. Happy

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2008, 02:29:16 pm »
Yes. Villarreal is one of the mainstays of the bullpen. He's slotted as the 7th inning guy in the Villarreal-Brocail-Valverde back-end of the pen. Geary is likely to make it because he's had experience, but he's a middle inning guy for the most part and his job is hardly assurred.

Happy likes to make these lists off the top of his head without putting a whole lot of thought into them. Why would Cheito and Abercrombie both be on the team? And why Ausmus or Quintero? I think Ausmus' spot on the team is about as certain as things get.

I actually looked at this one. Just missed Villareal. If they keep five outfielders and if they go with 11 pitchers, Cheito and Abercrombie both could conceivably make the club.

I thought that the most interesting part of this was Footer's comment that the 25 basicly was set. With that, I just started off with my take as to the makeup of the club.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2008, 03:50:22 pm »
I actually looked at this one. Just missed Villareal. If they keep five outfielders and if they go with 11 pitchers, Cheito and Abercrombie both could conceivably make the club.

I thought that the most interesting part of this was Footer's comment that the 25 basicly was set. With that, I just started off with my take as to the makeup of the club.


11 pitchers would be shocking. Especially with this rotation.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2008, 05:41:45 pm »
IMO,

Towles, Berkman, Matsui, Tejada, Wigginton, Lee, Bourn, Pence
Ausmus, Blum, Loretta, Erstad, Cruz Jr.

Roy, Wandy, Backe, Woody, Chacon
Valverde, Brocail, Villareal, Geary, Borkowski, Wright, Houston
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2008, 05:48:21 pm »
make it so
let the season begin
forever is composed entirely of nows

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2008, 06:12:08 pm »
IMO,

Towles, Berkman, Matsui, Tejada, Wigginton, Lee, Bourn, Pence
Ausmus, Blum, Loretta, Erstad, Cruz Jr.

Roy, Wandy, Backe, Woody, Chacon
Valverde, Brocail, Villareal, Geary, Borkowski, Wright, Houston

Houston?  That's an unexpected call.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2008, 09:15:46 pm »
What about Sampson?

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2008, 09:58:40 pm »
What about Sampson?

I see him caught up in the numbers game. The only way he makes the club is as the fifth starter, which I don't see happening.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2008, 10:46:30 pm »
IMO,

Towles, Berkman, Matsui, Tejada, Wigginton, Lee, Bourn, Pence
Ausmus, Blum, Loretta, Erstad, Cruz Jr.

Roy, Wandy, Backe, Woody, Chacon
Valverde, Brocail, Villareal, Geary, Borkowski, Wright, Houston

I agree, but I see Sampson not Houston rounding out the pen.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2008, 11:06:09 pm by Bench »
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2008, 08:45:44 am »
Houston?  That's an unexpected call.

Houston because I read somewhere or at least inferred from somewhere, maybe on astros.com, that Wade favored him.  And, I believe he'd have to pass through waivers to be sent down.  Wade didn't add him to the 40-man for no reason.  Sampson, McLemore and most of the others have options.  Paronto is one I forgot who could get Houston's spot.

So why include Houston and not Abercrombie when Abercrombie was added to the 40-man and would have to pass through waivers to be sent down?  Pitching is in much shorter supply than back-up outfielders.  Also, IMO, Q will be dealt.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2008, 09:46:19 am »
Also, IMO, Q will be dealt.

That makes the most sense to me, too ... The only question is whether it happens during ST (leading to a 12-man pitching staff) or whether they open the season with Q on the 25-man and make a trade soon thereafter.

Quote
per juliogotay:  11 pitchers would be shocking. Especially with this rotation.
Not nearly as shocking as Happy's six outfielders. 
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2008, 09:54:31 am »
Houston because I read somewhere or at least inferred from somewhere, maybe on astros.com, that Wade favored him.  And, I believe he'd have to pass through waivers to be sent down.  Wade didn't add him to the 40-man for no reason.  Sampson, McLemore and most of the others have options.  Paronto is one I forgot who could get Houston's spot.

So why include Houston and not Abercrombie when Abercrombie was added to the 40-man and would have to pass through waivers to be sent down?  Pitching is in much shorter supply than back-up outfielders.  Also, IMO, Q will be dealt.
I can buy all that reasoning, but I think Houston's spot is the one definite "up in the air" spot on the roster.  The others seem pretty set, at least to this point in the ST.  Cruz seems to have grabbed a stangle hold on the last position player spot.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2008, 09:55:57 am »
I just don't see how Sampson is not only on the roster but in the rotation.  Even with his injury late last year, he still posted an ERA virtually identical to Wandy and better than Woody.  Who knows about Chacon.  He hasn't really been a starter much lately, has he?

Maybe the options factor does doom Sampson, but it is hard for me to imagine the Astros can't use an arm who produces at least the league average.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2008, 09:57:16 am »
I just don't see how Sampson is not only on the roster but in the rotation.  Even with his injury late last year, he still posted an ERA virtually identical to Wandy and better than Woody.  Who knows about Chacon.  He hasn't really been a starter much lately, has he?

Maybe the options factor does doom Sampson, but it is hard for me to imagine the Astros can't use an arm who produces at least the league average.
I think Sampson makes the team, but probably in long relief and spot start duty.  I'd love to see him in that #5 slot, though.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2008, 10:00:52 am »
I just don't see how Sampson is not only on the roster but in the rotation.  Even with his injury late last year, he still posted an ERA virtually identical to Wandy and better than Woody.  Who knows about Chacon.  He hasn't really been a starter much lately, has he?

Maybe the options factor does doom Sampson, but it is hard for me to imagine the Astros can't use an arm who produces at least the league average.

Sampson was doing it with smoke and mirrors.  I'm not sure he's a legit rotation guy.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2008, 10:02:51 am »
I just don't see how Sampson is not only on the roster but in the rotation.  Even with his injury late last year, he still posted an ERA virtually identical to Wandy and better than Woody.  Who knows about Chacon.  He hasn't really been a starter much lately, has he?

Maybe the options factor does doom Sampson, but it is hard for me to imagine the Astros can't use an arm who produces at least the league average.

As I'm sitting here today I see the Astros stockpiling as many arms of the highest quality they can get.  If that means sending Sampson down to keep a good arm that would have to pass through waivers, like Houston, in order to keep as many good arms as possible then so be it.  Add to that that this is to start the season not for the entire season.  I also believe there'll be considerable shake out in the pen between opening day and July 1 with several guys who make the team out of spring training either being demoted, traded, let go, or injured.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2008, 10:08:01 am »
...
Ausmus or Quintero
...

You think there's a chance Ausmus won't make the team?

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2008, 10:10:32 am »
You think there's a chance Ausmus won't make the team?

Zero.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2008, 10:14:36 am »
Sampson was doing it with smoke and mirrors.  I'm not sure he's a legit rotation guy.

I sense that this belief is, and has always been held by management also.  Sampson seems to be constantly needing to prove himself, as his success is an illusion.  This may yet turn out to be correct, but when I think of Sampson, I see a guy that has always beat expectations, is a battler on the mound, and most importantly, has always posted solid to good ERAs throughout the minors to now.  In short, he produces despite his shortcomings, and that helps clubs win.

However, I understand that he might get caught in a numbers game.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2008, 10:19:45 am »
I'd think the odds of Q being dealt are pretty high, but then they need a ML-quality backup plan in AAA for injury insurance.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2008, 10:27:04 am »
I'd think the odds of Q being dealt are pretty high, but then they need a ML-quality backup plan in AAA for injury insurance.

What's the going rate for a backup catcher?
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2008, 10:30:50 am »
What's the going rate for a backup catcher?

Ask around in Montrose.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2008, 10:33:17 am »
Not nearly as shocking as Happy's six outfielders. 


I think that I had only five outfielders: Bourn, Lee, Pence, Cheito and Abercrombie. I admittedly had a brain fart and just missed Villareal, but I don't think that even I would have predicted six outfielders.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #30 on: March 10, 2008, 10:34:56 am »
I think that I had only five outfielders: Bourn, Lee, Pence, Cheito and Abercrombie. I admittedly had a brain fart and just missed Villareal, but I don't think that even I would have predicted six outfielders.
And Erstad.  He is also the backup at 1B, but will undoubtedly see as much action in the OF as there.  He has been touted as such all spring.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2008, 10:40:08 am »
What's the going rate for a backup catcher?

Dunno, but you'd need to find a guy who either a) has options remaining or b) a vet who would be able to clear waivers & would accept a job in AAA.

eta:  Santangelo should start the season in CC, right?  How down is the org on him? 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 10:42:15 am by Lefty »
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2008, 10:45:38 am »
Dunno, but you'd need to find a guy who either a) has options remaining or b) a vet who would be able to clear waivers & would accept a job in AAA.

eta:  Santangelo should start the season in CC, right?  How down is the org on him? 

No, I'm looking for what they'd get back for Q, and it should be someone whose options have not yet started.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2008, 10:49:56 am »
And Erstad.  He is also the backup at 1B, but will undoubtedly see as much action in the OF as there.  He has been touted as such all spring.

You're right. He has played mostly OF and very well in his career. However, I see him more as a bat off of the bench and backup 1B. But he could easily take on the OF again if Bourn falters.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2008, 10:51:09 am »
eta:  Santangelo should start the season in CC, right?  How down is the org on him? 

That's my expectation, and they ain't happy.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2008, 10:59:51 am »
You're right. He has played mostly OF and very well in his career. However, I see him more as a bat off of the bench and backup 1B. But he could easily take on the OF again if Bourn falters.

Isn't that pretty much the definition of a good 4th/5th outfielder?
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2008, 11:05:41 am »
No, I'm looking for what they'd get back for Q, and it should be someone whose options have not yet started.

Gotcha.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2008, 11:08:22 am »
Isn't that pretty much the definition of a good 4th/5th outfielder?

Clearly, the club could go that way. In such a case, Cheito would be the fifth OF, and the club could add another IF or a pitcher. I still think that they'll break camp with 11 pitchers unless they decide to keep Wright.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2008, 11:11:29 am »
. . . but when I think of Sampson, I see a guy that has always beat expectations, is a battler on the mound, and most importantly, has always posted solid to good ERAs throughout the minors to now.  In short, he produces despite his shortcomings, and that helps clubs win.

Are you trying to lure Alkie out of retirement?
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2008, 11:11:56 am »
Clearly, the club could go that way. In such a case, Cheito would be the fifth OF, and the club could add another IF or a pitcher. I still think that they'll break camp with 11 pitchers unless they decide to keep Wright.

If they don't keep Wright on the 25-man the Dodgers will take him back.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2008, 11:46:17 am »
Clearly, the club could go that way. In such a case, Cheito would be the fifth OF, and the club could add another IF or a pitcher. I still think that they'll break camp with 11 pitchers unless they decide to keep Wright.
And as noted elsewhere, they will have to keep Wright on the 25-man or the Dodgers will take him back.

Given a 5-man bench, then, I expect it will be:
Locks:  Blum, Loretta (barring a trade), Ausmus, Erstad
plus one of:  Cruz, Abercrombie, Quintero

If they go with a 6-man bench to start, the "lock" from the above would be Quintero.  In other words, Q is competing for a spot with two philosophies ... the need for a 5th OF (Cruz/Abercombie) and the need for a 12th pitcher (Wright, probably).  It will all come down to how much the Astros value Q's potential contributions (as backup, insurance or trade bait) in comparison to the more normal degrees of roster flexibility that the other two approaches provide.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #41 on: March 10, 2008, 12:01:38 pm »
If Q really can play, keep Ausmus makes no sense to me. Make him a coach.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #42 on: March 10, 2008, 12:08:15 pm »
I think that to make JR Towles a lock to be the starting catcher when they break camp is a bit premature.  It may be Q and Ausmus for the first two months while Towles catches everyday in AAA.  Similar to Hunter Pence last year, you have to make sure on a kid who has very little time in AAA.  I also think Towles has some things to learn about catching, so he could use a few months in AAA to work on some fundamentals in his throwing.

Once they know what they have with Towles, they can make a decision on Q or Ausmus.  For now, I don't think there should be any rush to make JR Towles the everyday guy.  Oh and if you trade Q, trade for a upper minor league catcher - because you're going to need one.  Good luck finding one, but there you have it.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #43 on: March 10, 2008, 12:08:46 pm »
I'd think the odds of Q being dealt are pretty high, but then they need a ML-quality backup plan in AAA for injury insurance.

I think that is why they re-signed J. R. House in the off season.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #44 on: March 10, 2008, 12:10:29 pm »
I think that is why they re-signed J. R. House in the off season.

I don't think JR House or Alberto Castillo should ever be considered good insurance in AAA at catcher.  There will be a void there if Q is dealt, Towles get hurt and Ausmus has to catch everyday.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #45 on: March 10, 2008, 12:18:30 pm »
I think that to make JR Towles a lock to be the starting catcher when they break camp is a bit premature.  It may be Q and Ausmus for the first two months while Towles catches everyday in AAA.  Similar to Hunter Pence last year, you have to make sure on a kid who has very little time in AAA.  I also think Towles has some things to learn about catching, so he could use a few months in AAA to work on some fundamentals in his throwing.

Once they know what they have with Towles, they can make a decision on Q or Ausmus.  For now, I don't think there should be any rush to make JR Towles the everyday guy.  Oh and if you trade Q, trade for a upper minor league catcher - because you're going to need one.  Good luck finding one, but there you have it.

I will be flat-on-my-back shocked if Towles is sent to AAA to start the season.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2008, 12:20:49 pm »
Noe, your idea is the best one-Towles to AAA.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2008, 12:21:55 pm »
I will be flat-on-my-back shocked if Towles is sent to AAA to start the season.

Not me.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2008, 12:28:40 pm »
I don't think JR House or Alberto Castillo should ever be considered good insurance in AAA at catcher.  There will be a void there if Q is dealt, Towles get hurt and Ausmus has to catch everyday.

I am not sure you will get much better than him in a trade or a signing.  I think he is a serviceable backup for a period of time.  His knowledge of the pitchers who were in AA/AAA in 06 helps here as well (Paulino, Sampson, etc...).  If it was a longer period of time, I think then they go shopping. 

I am saying that part of the signing of House was made knowing they would likely lose Q in either waivers or to a trade.

House played in 19 games in Balt. last year (catching in 9 of them, 1b in 1, 3b in 2 and DH/PH in the rest).  He only hit .211
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2008, 12:29:02 pm »
Noe, your idea is the best one-Towles to AAA.

To me, two AAA guys have a legit shot to make the team: JR Towles and Felipe Paulino.  Both had impressive September callups, but that is the extent of what they've done so far.  They both came in to compete for major league jobs, but neither has a job secured.  They have to earn it.  And by earn it, they have to have great springs and hope veterans have horrible springs where they show they're not major league answers any more.  In the case of Paulino, Woody Williams needs to go south soon.  Same with Towles and Ausmus.  Neither is happening.  So just like I'll not be surprised when Paulino is sent down because he has options, same will be evident with Towles.  Why trade Q and create a void in AAA?  Unless Towles shows his catching is going to improve vastly, it won't hurt him to *start* in AAA this season (same with Paulino).  We all then can be assured of having a really good AAA insurance policy to cash in for a starter and a catcher if that will be necessary after a month or two of the season.

All that, of course, can be avoided if the Astros could trade for a quality AAA catcher and I don't see how they'll pull that off anytime soon.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2008, 12:30:52 pm »
I am not sure you will get much better than him in a trade or a signing.  I think he is a serviceable backup for a period of time.  His knowledge of the pitchers who were in AA/AAA in 06 helps here as well (Paulino, Sampson, etc...).  If it was a longer period of time, I think then they go shopping. 

I am saying that part of the signing of House was made knowing they would likely lose Q in either waivers or to a trade.

House played in 19 games in Balt. last year (catching in 9 of them, 1b in 1, 3b in 2 and DH/PH in the rest).  He only hit .211


He hasn't caught a game yet this spring.  He's not a catcher any more, his shoulder problem will not allow him to do so unless it was in an emergency.  To say he's AAA insurance is a frightful thought.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2008, 12:31:22 pm »
Would yours be the best idea?  Yes.  However, the club made fairly clear that Ausmus was around only to tutor Towles.  The clear implication was that Towles was the catcher of the future, and that future started now.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2008, 12:33:45 pm »
Would yours be the best idea?  Yes.  However, the club made fairly clear that Ausmus was around only to tutor Towles.  The clear implication was that Towles was the catcher of the future, and that future started now.

This is exactly the point that makes me think Towles is up to stay. The Ausmus signing makes very little sense otherwise.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2008, 12:38:18 pm »
If Q really can play, keep Ausmus makes no sense to me. Make him a coach.

I like it, a lot.  Would Ausmus go for it, though?  Wonder if the subject was brought up in off-season negotiations, and what if any "promises" on playing time were made? 
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2008, 12:40:07 pm »
Would yours be the best idea?  Yes.  However, the club made fairly clear that Ausmus was around only to tutor Towles.  The clear implication was that Towles was the catcher of the future, and that future started now.

Why would calling him the future necessitate handing Towles the job now as opposed to several months into the season?  Either way, my point is that trading Q is a bad idea any way you slice it.  If you want Towles to start, then you have to go with the options below:

1. You can cut Brad Ausmus and tell him it's been great, we love you, but you've just been Shane Reynolded.  Of course, it makes it interesing that you signed him this off season for one more year as a backup.
2. Or carry three catchers, making Brad Ausmus an ubber utility guy.  That makes Ausmus the right handed power bat off the bench.
3. Trade Quintero but make sure you trade for a quality AAA catcher who can start every day and be the insurance you need down there.  Too bad they lost Eric Munson, he would fit the bill to do just that.

What I don't understand is where the idea that Towles has the job secured came from.  I've not heard anything like that for Towles at all.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2008, 12:56:01 pm »

What I don't understand is where the idea that Towles has the job secured came from.  I've not heard anything like that for Towles at all.

It's been implied to me.  In the end though it's Drayton's call, and the PR hit for not having Towles won't be tolerated.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2008, 01:03:31 pm »
Is there a limit on the number of coaches a team can have in the dugout? If Ausmus were to become a bench coach, would somebody else have to move out?
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2008, 01:06:50 pm »
It's been implied to me.  In the end though it's Drayton's call, and the PR hit for not having Towles won't be tolerated.

Of course, the Pence situation last year tells you how wide a gap of opinion the baseball side may have with the business side.  Duly noted but I really was only talking about a baseball decision that could be made.  Pam Gardner trumps anything anyone says about how things should be run.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2008, 01:09:45 pm »
Pam Gardner trumps anything anyone says about how things should be run.

(MM nods silently, looks for his cilice)
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2008, 01:10:54 pm »
Is there a limit on the number of coaches a team can have in the dugout? If Ausmus were to become a bench coach, would somebody else have to move out?

You get 6 coaches, so that wouldn't work, unfortunately.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2819077

eta:  Interesting note about translators:  Boston can have theirs in the dugout because he's a member of the training staff.  Anyone know if Matsui's masseuse & translator are the same guy?  And if so, is he on the Stros payroll or Matsui's?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 01:13:56 pm by Lefty »
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2008, 01:11:05 pm »
Is there a limit on the number of coaches a team can have in the dugout? If Ausmus were to become a bench coach, would somebody else have to move out?

Not for nothing, but this idea that Brad Ausmus is now only good as a coach or mentor is distrubing.  I think he's a good major league backup, hopefully for a kid like Towles who is legitimately ready to take the job.  But Ausmus is a backup catcher either way you slice it, meaning he's going to play.  And backup catchers serve as valuable a role on a team as anyone else.  Never discount what they do.  That being said, is it the general consensus that Ausmus can't even function as a backup catcher?

If so, I disagree.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2008, 01:17:50 pm »
That being said, is it the general consensus that Ausmus can't even function as a backup catcher?

Not here, at all.  But this is most likely Ausmus' last year, and it's been reported several times that he's here in large part to mentor Towles.  Q is an excellent long-term backup plan, and I was just thinking of a way to retain both Ausmus & Q.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2008, 01:28:12 pm »
Not here, at all.  But this is most likely Ausmus' last year, and it's been reported several times that he's here in large part to mentor Towles.  Q is an excellent long-term backup plan, and I was just thinking of a way to retain both Ausmus & Q.

Understood.  The best answer is carry three catchers.  Then again, that is not the best answer at the same time.  One other thing that has not been discussed is how many guys are going to hit the waiver wire at the end of spring training?  That may allow them to sign a backup catcher to a minor league contract.  Again, Eric Munson comes to mind.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2008, 01:33:25 pm »
One other thing that has not been discussed is how many guys are going to hit the waiver wire at the end of spring training?

Good point.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2008, 01:34:56 pm »
...What I don't understand is where the idea that Towles has the job secured came from.  I've not heard anything like that for Towles at all.

Here's where

(Footer) The Astros have high hopes for J.R. Towles in 2008, but recognizing that the 23-year-old rookie will need some seasoning, the club signed Brad Ausmus to a one-year deal to serve as a backup catcher and mentor to the No. 1 backstop.
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071030&content_id=2288741&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

(Footer) if all goes as planned, he'll take over as the front-line catcher in 2008,

"J.R. does have experience at big league level, and he has Ausmus to bounce things off and work with," Wade said. "[Towles will ] learn the league and make adjustments. He has tools that indicate he can play at this level for some time."
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080103&content_id=2338978&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

(Towles) "He's (Ausmus) not looking at it as I'm trying to take his job. He said he was ready to be the backup. He just makes everything a lot easier knowing that I can go to somebody like him."
http://www.caller.com/news/2008/jan/23/towles/

but

"You don't want to hand young guys jobs before they get to Spring Training," Cooper said. "It's better if they work for it."
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080201&content_id=2361717&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #65 on: March 10, 2008, 01:43:42 pm »
The last statements, by Coop, is what I hear more often when it comes to Towles.  He didn't come in as the owner of the starting job... just the frontrunner.  But Q is battling and is making it very hard to just dismiss him.  Towles got hurt and that may put him behind a little.  Fair?  If he were the veteran catcher who was the incumbent, he'd have nothing to worry about.  IMHO, he's not an incumbent.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2008, 01:43:57 pm »

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #67 on: March 10, 2008, 01:46:59 pm »
Footer weighs in on the catchers question, posted 5 minutes ago
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080310&content_id=2416777&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou


Alyson, if you want to weigh in on this thread you're welcome to post your info here.  You don't have to go to astros.com to get your thoughts out there.  I'm just sayin'...
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #68 on: March 10, 2008, 01:48:26 pm »
Alyson, if you want to weigh in on this thread you're welcome to post your info here.  You don't have to go to astros.com to get your thoughts out there.  I'm just sayin'...

Alyson - you're also welcome to tell your buddies at 1560 that there are potential guests that are far, far more knowledgable that Barzilla & Co.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2008, 01:48:45 pm »

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #70 on: March 10, 2008, 01:49:45 pm »
The last statements, by Coop, is what I hear more often when it comes to Towles.  He didn't come in as the owner of the starting job... just the frontrunner.  But Q is battling and is making it very hard to just dismiss him.  Towles got hurt and that may put him behind a little.  Fair?  If he were the veteran catcher who was the incumbent, he'd have nothing to worry about.  IMHO, he's not an incumbent.

He's an absolute lock barring long-term injury or complete collapse.  What Cooper is saying amounts to a formality.  They're going to have him "battle" for the job he can only lose in a catastrophy.  Q can't simply beat him out of the job.
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pravata

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2008, 01:50:16 pm »
She's so cool.  And dreamy.

Cooper might be moving the needle from a "70-30" chance of 12 pitchers. 

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #72 on: March 10, 2008, 01:50:50 pm »
Alyson, if you want to weigh in on this thread you're welcome to post your info here.  You don't have to go to astros.com to get your thoughts out there.  I'm just sayin'...

She doesn't operate that way.  I like how she operates... leave her alone.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2008, 01:51:26 pm »
You get 6 coaches, so that wouldn't work, unfortunately.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2819077

eta:  Interesting note about translators:  Boston can have theirs in the dugout because he's a member of the training staff.  Anyone know if Matsui's masseuse & translator are the same guy?  And if so, is he on the Stros payroll or Matsui's?
Maybe Ausmus can take a crash course in Japanese?
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #74 on: March 10, 2008, 01:54:00 pm »
He's an absolute lock barring long-term injury or complete collapse.  What Cooper is saying amounts to a formality.  They're going to have him "battle" for the job he can only lose in a catastrophy.  Q can't simply beat him out of the job.

You're probably right, but funny how Hunter Pence wasn't on the radar for a job last spring, yet won the battle (albeit two months later) by just out performing everyone (and Chris Burke stinking up the joint).  Now he's the incumbent and Jose Cruz Jr. can have a great spring and still not replace him.

So how did Towles get the "absolute lock" status that Hunter now enjoys?  I dunno, but seems he does.  My question is simple though: why?  I can understand Hunter Pence, given how he hit the scene *last year* and proved himself... but Towles?
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 01:56:31 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #75 on: March 10, 2008, 01:54:08 pm »
Cooper might be moving the needle from a "70-30" chance of 12 pitchers. 


That would be the most interesting development of the camp to date, IMO, outside of Chacon making the rotation.

If that happened it would add another good pitcher to a very nice RR pitching staff to start the year.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #76 on: March 10, 2008, 01:55:44 pm »
You're probably right, but funny how Hunter Pence wasn't on the radar for a job last spring, yet won the battle (albeit two months later) but just out performing everyone.  Now he's the incumbent and Jose Cruz Jr. can have a great spring and still not replace him.

So how did Towles get the "absolute lock" status that Hunter now enjoys?  I dunno, but seems he does.  My question is simple though: why?

The lessons learned from the Pence Affair last spring.  Also, Smith/Wade is not Purpura.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #77 on: March 10, 2008, 02:03:45 pm »
The lessons learned from the Pence Affair last spring.

What lessons?  That Chris Burke stinks as a centerfielder?  As we've discussed, there are three quality major league caliber catchers in camp.  Only one has options, so they will need to carry three catchers to accomodate not sending Towles down.  Best baseball decision?  I dunno, I'm thinking no... but I'm not the manager nor GM nor anybody of any consequence.  I think sending Towles down is not a big deal because what I'm looking for is reasons why the kid is the best option to start other than he's the youngest of the three.

Does he throw better?
Does he block the plate better?
Does he call a better game?
Does he manage pitchers better?

I'm asking what has been said in these regards to make him the sure lock as the number 1 catcher.  What I personally saw in September was a mix of good and a mix of so-so major league skills.  Q actually has better catching skills but admittedly won't hit what Towles could hit.

BTW - for every Hunter Pence success story of being handed a major league gig (and Lance Berkman his rookie season), you also get some rookie season performances like what we saw from Adam Everett and Morgan Ensberg the season they were handed starting jobs out of spring training.  Jimah Williams sent them down to AAA after one month.

Quote
Also, Smith/Wade is not Purpura.

Good point.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #78 on: March 10, 2008, 02:05:43 pm »
You get 6 coaches, so that wouldn't work, unfortunately.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2819077

eta:  Interesting note about translators:  Boston can have theirs in the dugout because he's a member of the training staff.  Anyone know if Matsui's masseuse & translator are the same guy?  And if so, is he on the Stros payroll or Matsui's?

translator and therapist, not the same guy, Astros pay

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #79 on: March 10, 2008, 02:09:28 pm »
What lessons?  That Chris Burke stinks as a centerfielder?  As we've discussed, there are three quality major league caliber catchers in camp.  Only one has options, so they will need to carry three catchers to accomodate not sending Towles down.  Best baseball decision?  I dunno, I'm thinking no... but I'm not the manager nor GM nor anybody of any consequence.  I think sending Towles down is not a big deal because what I'm looking for is reasons why the kid is the best option to start other than he's the youngest of the three.

Does he throw better?
Does he block the plate better?
Does he call a better game?
Does he manage pitchers better?

I'm asking what has been said in these regards to make him the sure lock as the number 1 catcher.  What I personally saw in September was a mix of good and a mix of so-so major league skills.  Q actually has better catching skills but admittedly won't hit what Towles could hit.

BTW - for every Hunter Pence success story of being handed a major league gig (and Lance Berkman his rookie season), you also get some rookie season performances like what we saw from Adam Everett and Morgan Ensberg the season they were handed starting jobs out of spring training.  Jimah Williams sent them down to AAA after one month.

Good point.

Williams last season, and Oswalt the season before, did not want to pitch to Quintero.  Williams had heated arguments on the mound with Quintero and waved dismissively at him after he called a pitch.  After that Ausmus caught Williams.   Whether it's right or not, every report is that Towles is the starting, possibly not Opening Day, catcher

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #80 on: March 10, 2008, 02:09:58 pm »
What lessons? 

The AIS and fans bitching lessons.


Quote
I'm asking what has been said in these regards to make him the sure lock as the number 1 catcher. 

Pravata provided that.

IMO, it all boils down to the fan excitement Towles elicited last September.  That excitement has carried over to this spring.  No way in hell Drayton allows that excitement to go to Round Rock.  If Towles had flopped in September you'd be looking at Q and Ausmus on Opening Day and Towles in RR.  That didn't happen.  It's a business decision.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #81 on: March 10, 2008, 02:14:25 pm »
The AIS and fans bitching lessons.

Mostly in hindsight, and only because he had a great year.  Didn't Drayton mention that as one of the reasons for Purp's firing?
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #82 on: March 10, 2008, 02:16:58 pm »
translator and therapist, not the same guy, Astros pay

So no translator in the dugout.  Not as vital as it would be with a pitcher, at any rate.  He & Tejada will be fine once they get accustomed to each other & hash out their hand signals; and I guess Coop or the coaches can just go into the tunnel & have a chat with Matsui & his translator if needed.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #83 on: March 10, 2008, 02:18:38 pm »
Mostly in hindsight, and only because he had a great year.  Didn't Drayton mention that as one of the reasons for Purp's firing?

No, he said that the minor league system was flawed because they didn't teach Pence how to slide without hurting himself.
http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=103641.0

I think that would be Mclane's fault for not providing the proper equipment, a Slip & Slide.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #84 on: March 10, 2008, 02:26:15 pm »
What I said was, Noe, that IF Q "really can play," keeping Ausmus does not make sense to ME. I did not mean to say or imply that Dreamboat's only value is as a coach.

Munson had value off the bench and can play other positions. He would be an ideal 3rd catcher.I do not think Q or Ausmus fits that bill.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #85 on: March 10, 2008, 02:33:56 pm »
You can have 7 coaches, you just can't have them all on the field.  Just ask Tim Bogar.  That is his job description now - "stands coach".
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #86 on: March 10, 2008, 02:49:49 pm »

So how did Towles get the "absolute lock" status that Hunter now enjoys?  I dunno, but seems he does.  My question is simple though: why?  I can understand Hunter Pence, given how he hit the scene *last year* and proved himself... but Towles?

Last year all three starting outfield positions were already pencilled in (Lee, Burke, Scott) before camp begun. Hunter caught fire, but still didn't make the squad because there were no openings. It wasn't until Burke played his way out of the majors that an opening appeared.

This year, Towles was pencilled in as the starting catcher from the get go. Ausmus can't catch every day anymore; thus the opening. Towles impressed last September and they feel he is the guy of the future and he can handle the job. Towles this year and Hunter last year are completely different situations.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #87 on: March 10, 2008, 02:50:16 pm »
The AIS and fans bitching lessons.

Cool.  Again. nothing trumps the Pam Gardner card.


Quote
Pravata provided that.

Yes, he provided the Wade talk about Towles.  However, Towles is not a great catching prospect, he may be one day though.  He's a work in progress.  I guess it's a work that will happen at the major league level.  In other days, other situations non-Pam Gardner, he'd be in the minors learning how to correctly release the baseball on his throws.

Quote
IMO, it all boils down to the fan excitement Towles elicited last September.

In that regard, then Ed Wade took a risk to trade Josh Anderson, who had an even better September than Towles.  In fact, Anderson is a CF, a position that Wade went and traded for in Michael Bourn.  I think making baseball decisions on fan excitement is a bad thing... but I'm honest enough with myself to know that this seems to be a part of how the Astros will do things at times.

Quote
That excitement has carried over to this spring.  No way in hell Drayton allows that excitement to go to Round Rock.  If Towles had flopped in September you'd be looking at Q and Ausmus on Opening Day and Towles in RR.  That didn't happen.  It's a business decision.

And if he flops after a month, he'll go back down to AAA and Quintero being gone will hurt.  So we're back to the best situation for the Astros to hand Towles the starting job: carry three catchers.  (Note: unless they luck out and find a viable catcher on waivers who is willing to sign a minor league contract to wait in AAA in case Towles does flop).

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #88 on: March 10, 2008, 02:53:06 pm »
Williams last season, and Oswalt the season before, did not want to pitch to Quintero.  Williams had heated arguments on the mound with Quintero and waved dismissively at him after he called a pitch.  After that Ausmus caught Williams.   Whether it's right or not, every report is that Towles is the starting, possibly not Opening Day, catcher

Yes, right or wrong Towles is the starting catcher... but what I'm hearing primarily is that it is not about his baseball skills, but because of PR returns?  Ahum, that's not necessarily a good thing.  Catching Pence-like lightning in a bottle in a back-to-back season is playing with fire.

Bottomline, better not trade Q because you're going to need the insurance.  And if Williams pitched better last year, he'd be someone I'd back up in getting rid of Q.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #89 on: March 10, 2008, 02:54:24 pm »
I think we will see 3 catchers out of ST but what if Towles doesn't flop.  How long do you keep Q on the roster?
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #90 on: March 10, 2008, 02:55:10 pm »
In that regard, then Ed Wade took a risk to trade Josh Anderson, who had an even better September than Towles.  In fact, Anderson is a CF, a position that Wade went and traded for in Michael Bourn.  I think making baseball decisions on fan excitement is a bad thing... but I'm honest enough with myself to know that this seems to be a part of how the Astros will do things at times.

In this case I disagree.  He dealt for Bourn before dealing Anderson.  People had a chance to look at Bourn and see him as a more viable CF prospect than Anderson before Anderson was dealt.  That and Anderson never generated the kind of excitement at the minor league level that Pence and Towles did.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #91 on: March 10, 2008, 02:55:38 pm »
What I said was, Noe, that IF Q "really can play," keeping Ausmus does not make sense to ME. I did not mean to say or imply that Dreamboat's only value is as a coach.

Munson had value off the bench and can play other positions. He would be an ideal 3rd catcher.I do not think Q or Ausmus fits that bill.

Gotcha Coach.  I was thinking more of what austro seemed to imply that Ausmus should be a coach now.  I dunno, I think he's a good backup.  But the question now seems to be backup to who?  If Towles has a horrible first month of his rookie season, what will they have in AAA as a backup starter ready to take over?  I'm shuddering at the thought of getting rid of Q because of that and forcing Towles to win the job instead of handing it to him.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #92 on: March 10, 2008, 02:59:17 pm »
In this case I disagree.  He dealt for Bourn before dealing Anderson.  People had a chance to look at Bourn and see him as a more viable CF prospect than Anderson before Anderson was dealt.  That and Anderson never generated the kind of excitement at the minor league level that Pence and Towles did.

But you mentioned the September excitement.  If you want to go with minor league excitement, I'm going to call foul in that many of the same fans at MMPUS who rooted for Towles also rooted as hard if not harder for Anderson.  I don't think they follow the minors as much, they just liked what they saw.

All I'm asking for is baseball-wise, what makes Towles a starting catcher?

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #93 on: March 10, 2008, 03:00:30 pm »
And if Williams pitched better last year, he'd be someone I'd back up in getting rid of Q.
Exactly.  And from what I've seen and heard, Q has made good progress as a receiver.  That first year at RR he was bouncing around like he was squating on a fireant pile.  He seems much more steady these days.  I don't know about calling a game, though.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #94 on: March 10, 2008, 03:01:41 pm »
I think we will see 3 catchers out of ST but what if Towles doesn't flop.  How long do you keep Q on the roster?
Hopefully, until you can trade him for a decent prospect.  By that time they should have already picked someone up off the waiver wire to squat in RR as insurance.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #95 on: March 10, 2008, 03:08:47 pm »
But you mentioned the September excitement.  If you want to go with minor league excitement, I'm going to call foul in that many of the same fans at MMPUS who rooted for Towles also rooted as hard if not harder for Anderson.  I don't think they follow the minors as much, they just liked what they saw.

All I'm asking for is baseball-wise, what makes Towles a starting catcher?

Anderson was never talked about as much or in the same way Towles and Pence were.

I will say that if Wade had been able to deal for an uber-catching prospect like Jeff Clement with the Mariners fans would have had no problem with dealing Towles.  AIS.

Towles has skills and holes that have been discussed ad nausem here.  If the Astros had a better option either in quality or AIS (read Biggio situation) as an incumbent at catcher Towles would be headed to RR.  Q isn't the incumbent and not heading to the HOF.  Ausmus is no longer a viable starter.  Baseball wise Towles is a better hitter than Q.  Q is a better defender.  And the Astros have no better options.  Pick your baseball poison.  Drayton's choosing his business.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #96 on: March 10, 2008, 03:15:39 pm »
Yes, right or wrong Towles is the starting catcher... but what I'm hearing primarily is that it is not about his baseball skills, but because of PR returns?  Ahum, that's not necessarily a good thing.  Catching Pence-like lightning in a bottle in a back-to-back season is playing with fire.

Bottomline, better not trade Q because you're going to need the insurance.  And if Williams pitched better last year, he'd be someone I'd back up in getting rid of Q.

All I've seen is this scenario where Towles is handed the starting position and Ausmus is his coach.  Cooper doesn't seem to want to buy into that and has been saying good things about Quintero too.  I have no information whether Towles starting is a pr move, but the way the Astros operated last season, I wouldn't doubt it.  Drayton Mclane is still the owner.  I know that Woody Williams had a bad season last year, but it seems to me that he is still respected in the dugout and by the coaches.  I would think that they'd listen to his input on the catchers.  If they listen to anyone.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #97 on: March 10, 2008, 04:03:24 pm »
I was thinking more of what austro seemed to imply that Ausmus should be a coach now.

I didn't mean to imply that Ausmus should be a coach now, but I can see how my post would leave that impression. But, really, I was just curious about whether there was a limit on the number of coaches (and
whether that might offer another degree of freedom in resolving this dilemma).
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #98 on: March 10, 2008, 04:07:55 pm »
All I've seen is this scenario where Towles is handed the starting position and Ausmus is his coach.  Cooper doesn't seem to want to buy into that and has been saying good things about Quintero too.  I have no information whether Towles starting is a pr move, but the way the Astros operated last season, I wouldn't doubt it.  Drayton Mclane is still the owner.  I know that Woody Williams had a bad season last year, but it seems to me that he is still respected in the dugout and by the coaches.  I would think that they'd listen to his input on the catchers.  If they listen to anyone.
I would point out that opinions on people can change, as players can change/develop.  So it is possible, Q is better in the areas that Woody had issue with, or maybe Woody was having a tough time, and was going to rip any "young" catcher.  Who knows.  But the keeping of Q or not should not be based on Woody's opinion.  Although I know you are not suggesting it should, I just want to head that one off.

I agree that Q creates an interesting situation, and one that will have to be addressed.  And how the team addresses it will have a ripple affect into other areas because of the roster situation the Astros are in.  I am not sure putting Towles in AAA is the best "baseball" option either, as some have suggested.  It would make other choices at lot easier to make, but that doesn't make it better.  I think Jacksonian got it right when comparing Q and Towles.  At this point they might balance out, but playing at the ML level might be the best for Towles at the point (and it might not).  That is why they pay those guys to make those choices.... let's just hope Pam lets them do that.

pravata

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #99 on: March 10, 2008, 04:14:50 pm »
I would point out that opinions on people can change, as players can change/develop.  So it is possible, Q is better in the areas that Woody had issue with, or maybe Woody was having a tough time, and was going to rip any "young" catcher.  Who knows.  But the keeping of Q or not should not be based on Woody's opinion.  Although I know you are not suggesting it should, I just want to head that one off.
...

I also wouldn't expect Williams to do anything that would hurt Quintero's chances.  I'm just remembering what happened last season.   Just throwing out information..

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #100 on: March 10, 2008, 04:17:21 pm »
Anderson was never talked about as much or in the same way Towles and Pence were.

So in essence, had Pam Garnder heard MMPUS fans slobbery praise for Anderson, Ed Wade *still* would've shipped him out knowing what he and the other baseball men know... you don't make decisions on September performances.  In that we agree and yes, Towles has not been talked about in the minors as a fringe prospect but as a viable major league candidate.  And he had a great September to back up the assertion.  But man, I'm hearing about Pam Gardner more and more and less about scouts assessments of the young man.  It's not a good thing, IMHO, to be the darling of the PR group in the Astros.  I'd rather, as a player, be given a job because the *baseball men* believe in me.  For all I know, they do and screw what the PR/Pam Gardners want.  But that's just me.

Quote
will say that if Wade had been able to deal for an uber-catching prospect like Jeff Clement with the Mariners fans would have had no problem with dealing Towles.  AIS.

We're talking Houston Astros fans?

Quote
Towles has skills and holes that have been discussed ad nausem here.

Yes, that's my point.  We're talking about a kid who has a ways to go to be a quality major league receiver.  He has no AAA time to speak of either.  That doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, just that I usually hear of promotions of such rising catching stars from A ball or AA ball reserved for a Pudge Rodriquez.  I'm just surprised how we've accepted Towles as the starter for the Houston Astros and not cast a wary eye at that move.  But you know what, if not Towles then who?  They would have to trade for a bonafide starter actually and that's not going to happen.  Or sign a high priced major league veteran free agent, and that didn't happen either.  Towles just kind of had one great September and now... here he is, the incumbent starting catcher.  Juneberno, someone besides the PR group might be on to something here.  One thing I remember vividly is how terrible Yadier Molina was with the bat in 2006, the year he took over for Mike Matheny (who retired because of concussion syndrome, else he was going to backup Yadier in his Towles-like debut).  But what Moline did well in 2006 was play defense, what you really want out of your starting catcher.  He did piss off a few pitchers with his less than good way of receiving a baseball (too herky-jerky), but darn if that kid didn't play solidly behind the dish.  He didn't let his struggles at the plate creep into his defense, so that spoke well for him.  What Houston will find out now is if their rookie catcher will have a similar reaction to the days he's going to struggle.  That he's not as good a receiver as Molina was when he took over for Matheny concerns me a little, but hey, he may well be more than okay and make it through this season.

Quote
If the Astros had a better option either in quality or AIS (read Biggio situation) as an incumbent at catcher Towles would be headed to RR.

I would limit it to only a better option on the field.  Screw the AIS and PR group, they need a solid catcher on this team else why even pretend to be helping your pitching staff.  All I'm asking is that if anyone's heard anything about Towles that says "He's going to help the pitchers tremendously... he's ready!"  I know that Brad Ausmus said something similar and that is a very good endorsement.

Quote
Q isn't the incumbent and not heading to the HOF.  Ausmus is no longer a viable starter.  Baseball wise Towles is a better hitter than Q.  Q is a better defender.  And the Astros have no better options.  Pick your baseball poison.  Drayton's choosing his business.

1.  I never said Q was a HOF, all I said was if you trade Q and Towles struggles (as *some* rookies are prone to do from time to time), you've got Ausmus at starter again and who to back him up?  And if you have Towles backing up Ausmus at the major league level because you have no one in AAA, then you've got a problem of sitting a rookie who could be learning and doing much in AAA to refine his game.  (see: Ensberg, Morgan circa 2004).  I would guess that they'd bring up Alberto Castillo to backup Ausmus in said scenario.

2. I don't really care about hitting when talking about catching, other than to expect a catcher to not let his deficiencies at hitting hinder his job as a catcher.

3. Drayton McLane certainly doesn't need me to tell him how to run his "business".
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 04:27:25 pm by Noe in Austin »

pravata

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #101 on: March 10, 2008, 04:22:08 pm »
...3. Drayton McLane certainly doesn't need me to tell him how to run his "business".

I think he does.  Because if it's not going to be you, he'll find some other random fans.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #102 on: March 10, 2008, 04:30:53 pm »
I think he does.  Because if it's not going to be you, he'll find some other random fans.

Like Andy?

pravata

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #103 on: March 10, 2008, 04:34:24 pm »
Like Andy?

Exactly like Andy.  But not Andy.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #104 on: March 10, 2008, 08:50:35 pm »
The Astros impending decisions about their roster have me a little anxious.  I was at the Padres game when Q had his first MLB at-bat.  He may have stolen a base or something, but I remember being quite impressed with this new prospect.  His first chances in the big leagues were not as productive as Towles' was.  This year, they both want the job.  Towles is a better hitter and Q is a better catcher.  If the Astros go with three catchers,  whom do you allow to develop?  Towles needs more games and Q needs more at-bats.  I just can't see the Astros sending Towles to AAA.  And the "what ifs?" will kill me if we lose Q and Towles gets hurt or is dissapointing.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #105 on: March 10, 2008, 10:27:11 pm »
The Astros impending decisions about their roster have me a little anxious.  I was at the Padres game when Q had his first MLB at-bat.  He may have stolen a base or something, but I remember being quite impressed with this new prospect.  His first chances in the big leagues were not as productive as Towles' was.  This year, they both want the job.  Towles is a better hitter and Q is a better catcher.  If the Astros go with three catchers,  whom do you allow to develop?  Towles needs more games and Q needs more at-bats.  I just can't see the Astros sending Towles to AAA.  And the "what ifs?" will kill me if we lose Q and Towles gets hurt or is dissapointing.


Quintero is not a prospect anymore.  He'll be 29 this year, is reaching the backside of his career, and is out of options.  Quintero's time to "develop" is well past.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #106 on: March 11, 2008, 12:42:27 am »

Quintero is not a prospect anymore.  He'll be 29 this year, is reaching the backside of his career, and is out of options.  Quintero's time to "develop" is well past.

This is very true, but my meager sources have informed me that our beloved 'stros are indeed leaning toward carring 3 catchers, so Ausmus can work with them both this season, and Hopefully harness Q's arm, while rounding out our boy Towles. (defensively of course)  While I don't necessarily agree with this strategy, it seems they would like to have both Towles and Q ready to go for 2009.  Your guess is as good as mine.  Personally, I could go either way on this one.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #107 on: March 11, 2008, 06:40:35 am »
This is very true, but my meager sources have informed me that our beloved 'stros are indeed leaning toward carring 3 catchers, so Ausmus can work with them both this season, and Hopefully harness Q's arm, while rounding out our boy Towles. (defensively of course)  While I don't necessarily agree with this strategy, it seems they would like to have both Towles and Q ready to go for 2009.  Your guess is as good as mine.  Personally, I could go either way on this one.


They may well go with Q now or in the future.  I was just commenting on the impression that there is a dilema on Q and more minor league "seasoning" before being ready for the bigs.  Q is a prospect in the same way Jason Lane is still a prospect.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #108 on: March 11, 2008, 10:22:09 am »

Quintero is not a prospect anymore.  He'll be 29 this year, is reaching the backside of his career, and is out of options.  Quintero's time to "develop" is well past.

I absolutely agree.  I was trying to say I was impressed with him when he was a prospect in 2003.   
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #109 on: March 11, 2008, 10:50:15 am »
Towles has kind of caught the "perfect storm".  While the Timmy P was moving guys a bit slower along then some other GMs might, Towles was not really planned to be "big league ready" until late 08/09 time-frame at the beginning of last year.  But with what occurred in 07, combined with the fact that 08 might be Ausmus' last year, it creates this "perfect storm".

I think you are right, from a baseball perspective Towles should probably be at AAA this year, but then that would mean when he comes up he would have less time (or no time) tutoring under Ausmus (I don't see Ausmus going from MLB Catcher to MLB Coach directly, MiLB coach maybe).  So when Towles showed enough last year to indicate he wouldn't be "over-matched" in the majors last September, things changed.  So I don't exactly expect what he showed in Sept to be the norm, but I think he showed enough that he wasn't intimidated or "over-matched" at the plate.  And he always has been good at working with pitchers (it was his blocking/throwing skills that needed more work defensively).

So I am guessing the thought this off-season based on what Towles showed last season (both in the minors and in Sept), was for Towles to be the #1 because Ausmus could then back-up (and step in as #1 if needed).  This would allow Towles to learn on the job and from one of the best at the position.  I have to believe this would be better for his development than learning from the minor league coaches (not to knock them).  From all I have heard, Ausmus is really good at teaching (to those that are willing) and Towles has been accepting of this.  Not to mention the 1-on-1 mentoring he could provide.

The fly in the ointment is that Q is out of options, there isn't any viable candidates the organization really trusts should something happen to Towles or Ausmus and the fact that Q is showing he is further along defensively than Towles and isn't a total liability (at least so far) with the bat.  And while Q is 29 and thus shouldn't be considered a "prospect", he is a viable option as a starter and will most definitely be picked up as someone's back-up, at least, via waivers should the Astros TRY to send him to AAA.

So that is the balance along with the whole PR side that the Astros have to figure out.  If they do keep 3 catchers, just like other bench guys, they have to provide more than just defensive back-up.  They have to also provide value as a Pinch-hitter too, and not just rot on the bench doing nothing.  Often times this is why teams don't carry 3 catchers.  Back-up Catchers rarely are multi-positional and about as rarely are on the team because of their bat.  So if they keep all 3, it is the PH aspect that I think would be the biggest impact (unless they keep only 11 pitchers which presents other issues).

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #110 on: March 11, 2008, 11:05:23 am »
Exactly like Andy.  But not Andy.

Wazzat now?

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #111 on: March 11, 2008, 01:30:30 pm »
Towles has kind of caught the "perfect storm".  While the Timmy P was moving guys a bit slower along then some other GMs might, Towles was not really planned to be "big league ready" until late 08/09 time-frame at the beginning of last year.  But with what occurred in 07, combined with the fact that 08 might be Ausmus' last year, it creates this "perfect storm".

I think you are right, from a baseball perspective Towles should probably be at AAA this year, but then that would mean when he comes up he would have less time (or no time) tutoring under Ausmus (I don't see Ausmus going from MLB Catcher to MLB Coach directly, MiLB coach maybe).  So when Towles showed enough last year to indicate he wouldn't be "over-matched" in the majors last September, things changed.  So I don't exactly expect what he showed in Sept to be the norm, but I think he showed enough that he wasn't intimidated or "over-matched" at the plate.  And he always has been good at working with pitchers (it was his blocking/throwing skills that needed more work defensively).

So I am guessing the thought this off-season based on what Towles showed last season (both in the minors and in Sept), was for Towles to be the #1 because Ausmus could then back-up (and step in as #1 if needed).  This would allow Towles to learn on the job and from one of the best at the position.  I have to believe this would be better for his development than learning from the minor league coaches (not to knock them).  From all I have heard, Ausmus is really good at teaching (to those that are willing) and Towles has been accepting of this.  Not to mention the 1-on-1 mentoring he could provide.

The fly in the ointment is that Q is out of options, there isn't any viable candidates the organization really trusts should something happen to Towles or Ausmus and the fact that Q is showing he is further along defensively than Towles and isn't a total liability (at least so far) with the bat.  And while Q is 29 and thus shouldn't be considered a "prospect", he is a viable option as a starter and will most definitely be picked up as someone's back-up, at least, via waivers should the Astros TRY to send him to AAA.

So that is the balance along with the whole PR side that the Astros have to figure out.  If they do keep 3 catchers, just like other bench guys, they have to provide more than just defensive back-up.  They have to also provide value as a Pinch-hitter too, and not just rot on the bench doing nothing.  Often times this is why teams don't carry 3 catchers.  Back-up Catchers rarely are multi-positional and about as rarely are on the team because of their bat.  So if they keep all 3, it is the PH aspect that I think would be the biggest impact (unless they keep only 11 pitchers which presents other issues).

Good read.

Here is what needs to be added to the mix, IMHO:

1. The Astros are taking a huge risk by promoting Towles now instead of later.
2. The Astros have no other viable choice though unless they were to sign a stop-gap veteran who could split time with Ausmus or allow Quintero that split time.
3. By taking this risk, the Astros are now face with the very real prospect of having no AAA insurance against a Towles injury or rookie struggle (the latter could happen and has happened in the past).
4. The risk can be mitigated by carrying three catchers, which is being whispered more and more nowadays and we can all see the very reason why in this thread.
5. The ability to carry three catchers can be mitigated if the waiver wire produces a name or two that can be AAA options for Houston.  Q can be traded in that scenario without fear of losing him to the waiver wire and/or not having a viable option in AAA as insurance.
6. Towles will need to have patience by the club to grow into being a major leaguer at the major league level instead of AAA.  I don't think any of us should fool ourselves with the September showing by JR, he needs work and he'll get it at the major league level by all accounts.  This is where having Ausmus really helps the kid.  He'll have to learn to focus on defense/being a major league catcher first and on offense second, regardless of what fans expect out of him or any other catcher Houston is to employ.

For now, looks like three catchers unless they find a gem on the waiver wire later that can be signed to a minor league contract and work at the AAA level to wait for an opportunity (see: Munson, Eric circa 2007)

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #112 on: March 11, 2008, 01:42:52 pm »
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

Andyzipp

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #113 on: March 11, 2008, 02:20:49 pm »
Good read.

Here is what needs to be added to the mix, IMHO:

1. The Astros are taking a huge risk by promoting Towles now instead of later.
2. The Astros have no other viable choice though unless they were to sign a stop-gap veteran who could split time with Ausmus or allow Quintero that split time.
3. By taking this risk, the Astros are now face with the very real prospect of having no AAA insurance against a Towles injury or rookie struggle (the latter could happen and has happened in the past).
4. The risk can be mitigated by carrying three catchers, which is being whispered more and more nowadays and we can all see the very reason why in this thread.
5. The ability to carry three catchers can be mitigated if the waiver wire produces a name or two that can be AAA options for Houston.  Q can be traded in that scenario without fear of losing him to the waiver wire and/or not having a viable option in AAA as insurance.
6. Towles will need to have patience by the club to grow into being a major leaguer at the major league level instead of AAA.  I don't think any of us should fool ourselves with the September showing by JR, he needs work and he'll get it at the major league level by all accounts.  This is where having Ausmus really helps the kid.  He'll have to learn to focus on defense/being a major league catcher first and on offense second, regardless of what fans expect out of him or any other catcher Houston is to employ.

For now, looks like three catchers unless they find a gem on the waiver wire later that can be signed to a minor league contract and work at the AAA level to wait for an opportunity (see: Munson, Eric circa 2007)

Noé, you're overthinking this.

I know for a FACT that Rick Wilkins is available.

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #114 on: March 11, 2008, 02:28:22 pm »
Noé, you're overthinking this.

I know for a FACT that Rick Wilkins is available.
Maybe they could lure John Bateman out of retirement.
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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #115 on: March 11, 2008, 02:29:27 pm »
Maybe they could lure John Bateman out of retirement.

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Up and down the M1 in some luminous yo-yo toy
But the future has to change - and to change I've got to destroy
Oh look out Lennon here I come - land ahoy-hoy-hoy

Noe

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #116 on: March 11, 2008, 02:37:08 pm »
Noé, you're overthinking this.

I know for a FACT that Rick Wilkins is available.

*phew*, for a minute there I thought you were going to say Mitch Melusky!

Mr. Happy

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #117 on: March 11, 2008, 02:58:41 pm »
Noé, you're overthinking this.

I know for a FACT that Rick Wilkins is available.

Chad Moeller is also looking.
People who cannot recognize a palpable absurdity are very much in the way of civilization. Agnes Rupellier

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

Astroholic

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #118 on: March 11, 2008, 03:05:07 pm »
Chad Moeller is also looking.

For what?  The strike zone?

Mr. Happy

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #119 on: March 11, 2008, 09:14:29 pm »
Chad Moeller is also looking.

I didn't suggest that we would be looking for him. I merely noted that he was looking as a result of his recent release.
People who cannot recognize a palpable absurdity are very much in the way of civilization. Agnes Rupellier

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

Mr. Happy

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #120 on: March 13, 2008, 04:10:23 pm »
Today, she wrote: "The nine pitchers either considered locks for the rotation or candidates for a spot are Roy Oswalt, Brandon Backe, Wandy Rodriguez, Woody Williams, Sampson, Shawn Chacon, Runelvys Hernandez, Jack Cassel and Moehler."

Where's Valverde and Villareal?

People who cannot recognize a palpable absurdity are very much in the way of civilization. Agnes Rupellier

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #121 on: March 13, 2008, 04:11:40 pm »
Today, she wrote: "The nine pitchers either considered locks for the rotation or candidates for a spot are Roy Oswalt, Brandon Backe, Wandy Rodriguez, Woody Williams, Sampson, Shawn Chacon, Runelvys Hernandez, Jack Cassel and Moehler."

Where's Valverde and Villareal?



In the bullpen.
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remy

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #122 on: March 13, 2008, 04:11:57 pm »
They're relievers

Mr. Happy

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Re: Footer says...
« Reply #123 on: March 13, 2008, 04:15:22 pm »
In the bullpen.

Oops. my bad. I misread it. Not the first time. Probably won't be the last.
People who cannot recognize a palpable absurdity are very much in the way of civilization. Agnes Rupellier

Caedite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius