Author Topic: In the least surprising news of the day:  (Read 4727 times)

MusicMan

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In the least surprising news of the day:
« on: February 15, 2008, 02:01:46 pm »
Jon Heyman, still dumber than your average rock

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As a way to break back into baseball, the game, and away from baseball, the court case, and a way to remind us what went on this winter, here are my offseason grades.

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30. Astros. How does anyone get Tejada just hours before Mitchell takes the podium? Good grief. F
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pravata

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2008, 03:06:39 pm »
Jon Heyman, still dumber than your average rock


If Clemens escapes, or is "pardoned" they can not with a straight face do anything to Tejada.  The Astros can safely take their chances with Tejada, as can the Orioles with Patton, who, "...said he has some “labrum issues” with his left shoulder, which is a bad sign. Patton and the Orioles don’t seem too concerned, but it’s definitely worth monitoring."  Baltimore Sun


kevwun

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2008, 03:18:09 pm »
Carlos Hernandez has labrum issues.
Crazy Joe McCluskey was fucking nuts.  It's why they called him Crazy Joe.

Limey

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2008, 04:13:30 pm »
Carlos Hernandez has labia issues.

FIFY
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Lurch

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2008, 04:19:28 pm »
Jon Heyman, still dumber than your average rock


I'll bite. Is he wrong (at least about the timing, care less about the rank crap)?
I wish the first word I had said when I was born was 'quote'. Then before I die, I could say, 'unquote.' --Steven Wright

HudsonHawk

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2008, 04:24:46 pm »
I'll bite. Is he wrong (at least about the timing, care less about the rank crap)?

Not if you think Tejada made the Astros significantly worse. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

MusicMan

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2008, 04:27:24 pm »
I'll bite. Is he wrong (at least about the timing, care less about the rank crap)?

If you're going to predicate your column on "let's get back to baseball, the game" - then yes.  The trade for Tejada, from a baseball standpoint, turned spare parts into a starting SS, which the Astros did not have, as they did not believe that Everett could return to form.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

pravata

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2008, 05:32:37 pm »
I'll bite. Is he wrong (at least about the timing, care less about the rank crap)?

It is not possible that Mclane or Wade knew definitively that Tejada was going to be in the Mitchell Report.  Of course, there are no it alls who say they should have but no one in management was told.  Tejada was told he'd be in the report, but neither the Astros nor the Orioles knew.  The testimony that the Oversight Committee has asked the DoJ to look into had not previously been made public, so again, there was no way for anyone outside of the participants to know that that secret testimony for the Palmeiro issue was contradicted by the Mitchell Report.  If Clemens and Hardin hadn't dropped their drawers and waved their butts at everybody, the Mitchell Report would be forgotten by now.

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2008, 06:33:08 pm »
It is not possible that Mclane or Wade knew definitively that Tejada was going to be in the Mitchell Report.  Of course, there are no it alls who say they should have but no one in management was told.  Tejada was told he'd be in the report, but neither the Astros nor the Orioles knew.  The testimony that the Oversight Committee has asked the DoJ to look into had not previously been made public, so again, there was no way for anyone outside of the participants to know that that secret testimony for the Palmeiro issue was contradicted by the Mitchell Report.  If Clemens and Hardin hadn't dropped their drawers and waved their butts at everybody, the Mitchell Report would be forgotten by now.

I'm guessing that Heyman is suggesting that any team trading for Tejada would have been prudent to wait one more day, since everyone knew when the Mitchell report was coming out.  Although, I suppose if the Astros knew they wanted Tejada regardless of the baggage, then it would be better to get him before the report came out so they could employ the "We're shocked, we had no idea!" defense in the media.

mihoba

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2008, 06:42:26 pm »
employ the "We're shocked, we had no idea!" defense in the media.

The Bud Selig defense. Give that man a contract extension! Oh wait...
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pravata

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2008, 07:04:19 pm »
I'm guessing that Heyman is suggesting that any team trading for Tejada would have been prudent to wait one more day, since everyone knew when the Mitchell report was coming out.  Although, I suppose if the Astros knew they wanted Tejada regardless of the baggage, then it would be better to get him before the report came out so they could employ the "We're shocked, we had no idea!" defense in the media.

My point is that the Astros traded for Tejada because they wanted Tejada.  It's possible that they could have guessed he'd be in the Mitchell Report, it is impossible that they knew he would be investigated by the DoJ.  The background of everything that happened in the Astros off season is Drayton Mclane stumping around the ballpark talking to fans who want to win now.  They weren't specific as to how that was to be achieved.  I think this wide eyed consternation is a little late.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2008, 07:28:41 pm by pravata »

Lurch

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2008, 08:45:12 pm »
First, I appreciate the alternative views, because I'll readily admit I've been heavily jaded on the whole event.  I should probably step back and be more logical about it.  On that path, then...

The last piece that still gets me is that if you as the owner or GM believe he might have used PEDs and that might be confirmed (or at least further supported) in the next day, would it not be prudent to wait in that an athlete using PEDs likely performs at a greater level than they would otherwise be able to and under the new spotlight, users are unlikely to be able to continue to do so... therefor he's not likely to continue to perform at his historical levels.  Before you stroke the check, wouldn't you want to know what version your getting?  Did we trade for Tejada performance, or TeHGHada performance?  Or, was it a good deal regardless?

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pravata

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2008, 09:55:48 pm »
First, I appreciate the alternative views, because I'll readily admit I've been heavily jaded on the whole event.  I should probably step back and be more logical about it.  On that path, then...

The last piece that still gets me is that if you as the owner or GM believe he might have used PEDs and that might be confirmed (or at least further supported) in the next day, would it not be prudent to wait in that an athlete using PEDs likely performs at a greater level than they would otherwise be able to and under the new spotlight, users are unlikely to be able to continue to do so... therefor he's not likely to continue to perform at his historical levels.  Before you stroke the check, wouldn't you want to know what version your getting?  Did we trade for Tejada performance, or TeHGHada performance?  Or, was it a good deal regardless?

I'll hang up and listen.

Are you speculating on the Astros' skill at guessing?  In any case, once they've waited long enough to have your answer, it'd have been too late.

Lurch

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2008, 10:02:39 pm »
Are you speculating on the Astros' skill at guessing?  In any case, once they've waited long enough to have your answer, it'd have been too late.

I dont follow.  Why would it have been too late a day later?
I wish the first word I had said when I was born was 'quote'. Then before I die, I could say, 'unquote.' --Steven Wright

pravata

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2008, 10:06:55 pm »
I dont follow.  Why would it have been too late a day later?

Could they have judged which "version" they were getting a day later?  Could they have done the deal a day later?  Not with all the hypocritical sanctimony going on.  The fans want to win, sure, but they demand choir boys?  Pick one, one way or another.

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2008, 04:00:54 pm »
Could they have judged which "version" they were getting a day later?  Could they have done the deal a day later?  Not with all the hypocritical sanctimony going on.  The fans want to win, sure, but they demand choir boys?  Pick one, one way or another.
Also, they had to decide that day whether or not to non-tender Everett. I imagine they wanted to make sure they had a SS before letting Adam go.
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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2008, 10:49:45 am »
The Astros had their sights on Tejada for a long time. It could be that it wasn't until the Mitchell Report was imminent, and the Astros and Orioles both had a pretty good idea of what was in there, that the Orioles were finally willing to accept a package that the Astros were willing to offer. Maybe the Astros got a break because they were getting potentially damaged (from a reputational perspective) goods.

RunninRaven

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2008, 01:47:05 pm »
FIFY

Oddly enough, for the longest time there was a sign on a street near my house that advertised "Carlos Hernandez OG/GYN." I kept telling myself I was going to get a picture to post as evidence of what direction Carlos's career has taken...but the sign is gone now.
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SoonerJim

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2008, 03:31:08 pm »
The Astros had their sights on Tejada for a long time. It could be that it wasn't until the Mitchell Report was imminent, and the Astros and Orioles both had a pretty good idea of what was in there, that the Orioles were finally willing to accept a package that the Astros were willing to offer. Maybe the Astros got a break because they were getting potentially damaged (from a reputational perspective) goods.

I agree with this. Tejada had a "low sell by" date when Houston acquired him. I was going around scratching my head why he's be acquired the day before the Mitchell report cam out. This explanation makes sense.

GreatBagwellsBeard

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2008, 03:33:38 pm »
I agree with this. Tejada had a "low sell by" date when Houston acquired him. I was going around scratching my head why he's be acquired the day before the Mitchell report cam out. This explanation makes sense.

Yup.  Given Angelos' penchant for...offering his opinion on operational moves in Baltimore, I could very well see this scenario playing out as described.
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JimR

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2008, 03:34:06 pm »
The Astros had their sights on Tejada for a long time. It could be that it wasn't until the Mitchell Report was imminent, and the Astros and Orioles both had a pretty good idea of what was in there, that the Orioles were finally willing to accept a package that the Astros were willing to offer. Maybe the Astros got a break because they were getting potentially damaged (from a reputational perspective) goods.

i agree with this and thought of it too. my good source told me that Houston gave up "almost nothing" in his assessment. maybe that's because the Os thought no one might take him after the report came out.
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MusicMan

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2008, 03:45:18 pm »
my good source told me that Houston gave up "almost nothing" in his assessment.

The best player the Orioles got was a young pitcher with a labrum issue.
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JimR

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Re: In the least surprising news of the day:
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2008, 03:48:44 pm »
The best player the Orioles got was a young pitcher with a labrum issue.

right, and if he reached his maximum potential, imo, he might be a #2. don't get me wrong, i hated to lose him, but he was a long, long way from a cinch.
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