the longer this FA pitching market stays this way, the better for the Astros

[DVauthrin]

We are little over a month away from pitchers/catchers reporting and there are still a lot of intriguing options in the FA pool unsigned:

Jennings
Garcia
Lieber
Colon
Livan
Lohse
Jeff Weaver(boras client however)
Benson

Point is these guys aren't likely to want to retire so the longer this drags on, the more likely the prices on their contract come down.   Which benefits the Astros.

[Lurch]

..
Jeff Weaver(boras client however)
..

Drayton already sold his soul.  Whereas the Good Guys didn't want to negotiate with Boras, this new team Berkman has been traded to should have no problem with it.

[pravata]

Drayton already sold his soul.  Whereas the Good Guys didn't want to negotiate with Boras, this new team Berkman has been traded to should have no problem with it.

It wasn't about his "soul" with Boras, it was about his prowess as a business man.  Boras lies. A Texas business man can not abide that.  I think he'd compromise his ethics to sign just about anyone at this point.  But I doubt he'd try to do a deal with someone he doesn't trust.  The familar (bs line) "it's not personal, it's business" applies here.

[MusicMan]

We are little over a month away from pitchers/catchers reporting and there are still a lot of intriguing options in the FA pool unsigned:

"Intriguing" as in, "Watching Britney Spears over the last year was certainly intriguing"?

[DVauthrin]

"Intriguing" as in, "Watching Britney Spears over the last year was certainly intriguing"?

You could say that.   With most of these pitchers the phrase "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you will get" seems appropriate.

[MusicMan]

Looks more like a box of lottery tickets.  You might find a winner, but the odds are not in your favor.

[DVauthrin]

Looks more like a box of lottery tickets.  You might find a winner, but the odds are not in your favor.

But combine the right amount of desperation to the right price and you will have your own potential golden ticket.

[Limey]

But combine the right amount of desperation to the right price and you will have your own potential golden ticket.

K-Fed?

[Noe]

You could say that.   With most of these pitchers the phrase "Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you will get" seems appropriate.

MLBRumors.com is saying that the Astros are considering bringing Freddy Garcia back into the fold.  Anything with Garcia right now is a deal to allow him to work his way back very slowly this season and perhaps, on the outside chance, be ready to pitch late in the season.

I would suspect that anything that has to do with Garcia is to try and get him ready for 2009 and catch lightning in a bottle similar to Chris Carpenter.  Nothing to help this season IMHO.  I think the Astros are fully intending to begin the season as is and then wait until the trading deadline to see what shakes out if they're still in contention.  Something like AJ Burnett or Jon Garland might be available by then for a push run if they're in such a position.

The likelihood given the weak NL Central and the loaded lineup in Houston (on paper... knock on wood) might make this possible.

[drew corleone]

Even if they go out and get a livan hernedez or the like, would they still consider taking a flyer on one of these incentive-laden "rehab specials"?

[Noe]

It wasn't about his "soul" with Boras, it was about his prowess as a business man.  Boras lies. A Texas business man can not abide that.  I think he'd compromise his ethics to sign just about anyone at this point.  But I doubt he'd try to do a deal with someone he doesn't trust.  The familar (bs line) "it's not personal, it's business" applies here.

I read a column recently (can't remember where, I think it was a New York paper) that pretty much said that the big fallout (according to a well known agent) from the Boras/A-Rod fiasco was that all the owners and GMs had confirmed for them what they suspected all along.

Scott Boras keeps his players in the dark about what the team is offering and saying.

According to this agent, the fallout is that now every team will demand to talk to the player directly and cite the A-Rod dealings as a reason for their concerns with Boras.  If Scott Boras does not relent and allow a team to speak to the player, he will face the same scrutiny he faced in the A-Rod affair.  So the big problem the Astros had with Boras was not only the lies and distortions but not being able to talk to Carlos Beltran directly (unlike the Mets who were because Boras needed them to peak the interest of the Yankees... who knew other than Boras that he would have serious interest from the Long Islanders and their owner?).

Many organizations will now insist that Boras allow the player free access to the organization and vice versa.

We shall see.

[jaklewein]

MLBRumors.com is saying that the Astros are considering bringing Freddy Garcia back into the fold.  Anything with Garcia right now is a deal to allow him to work his way back very slowly this season and perhaps, on the outside chance, be ready to pitch late in the season.

I would suspect that anything that has to do with Garcia is to try and get him ready for 2009 and catch lightning in a bottle similar to Chris Carpenter.  Nothing to help this season IMHO.  I think the Astros are fully intending to begin the season as is and then wait until the trading deadline to see what shakes out if they're still in contention.  Something like AJ Burnett or Jon Garland might be available by then for a push run if they're in such a position.

The likelihood given the weak NL Central and the loaded lineup in Houston (on paper... knock on wood) might make this possible.

I'm extremely excited about watching this year's squad, but it's 2009 that I'm really looking towards as a potential banner year.  Everyone on the team minus Brad and Woody should either 1) continue to produce as similar levels (Oswalt, Lee, Berkman, Tejada, etc.) or 2) hopefully take a step forward in their development (Pence, Towles, Bourne, Wandy). 

[legs_of_eggs]

I read a column recently (can't remember where, I think it was a New York paper) that pretty much said that the big fallout (according to a well known agent) from the Boras/A-Rod fiasco was that all the owners and GMs had confirmed for them what they suspected all along.

Scott Boras keeps his players in the dark about what the team is offering and saying.

According to this agent, the fallout is that now every team will demand to talk to the player directly and cite the A-Rod dealings as a reason for their concerns with Boras.  If Scott Boras does not relent and allow a team to speak to the player, he will face the same scrutiny he faced in the A-Rod affair.  So the big problem the Astros had with Boras was not only the lies and distortions but not being able to talk to Carlos Beltran directly (unlike the Mets who were because Boras needed them to peak the interest of the Yankees... who knew other than Boras that he would have serious interest from the Long Islanders and their owner?).

Many organizations will now insist that Boras allow the player free access to the organization and vice versa.

We shall see.

If this is true I think its the perfect way to limit Boras' absolute destruction of the free agent ($$) market. Kudos to owners and front offices for standing up to him. The thing that was so great about the A-Rod negotiations was when Warren Buffet sought A-Rod out and basically told him he's the talent and the reason for this money about to come his way, he should be the one talking to the Yankees and sorting his own situation out contract-wise. I guess this is why A-Rod and Boras are no longer on speaking terms.

[DVauthrin]

MLBRumors.com is saying that the Astros are considering bringing Freddy Garcia back into the fold.  Anything with Garcia right now is a deal to allow him to work his way back very slowly this season and perhaps, on the outside chance, be ready to pitch late in the season.

I would suspect that anything that has to do with Garcia is to try and get him ready for 2009 and catch lightning in a bottle similar to Chris Carpenter.  Nothing to help this season IMHO.  I think the Astros are fully intending to begin the season as is and then wait until the trading deadline to see what shakes out if they're still in contention.  Something like AJ Burnett or Jon Garland might be available by then for a push run if they're in such a position.

The likelihood given the weak NL Central and the loaded lineup in Houston (on paper... knock on wood) might make this possible.

I saw the same report on Garcia.   I have no problem with going that route but I also think the longer this drags on, the more likely a guy like Livan Hernandez finds himself in the astros price range unless he is willing to walk away from the game.   Basically, it's a buyers market on free agent pitching at this point and time.   

[toddthebod]

I don't have a problem with the Astros relying on Backe and Rodriguez to be big performers for them this year.  Backe -- when he is not injured -- looks like a solid pitcher.  Rodriguez did show real improvement last season and it is not unreasonable to expect him to continue to get better.  But I think that Woody is done and Sampson just doesn't look like any more than a fill-in pitcher.  Unfortunately, the the Astros seem commited to Williams because they owe him a lot of money for next season. 

[legs_of_eggs]

I don't have a problem with the Astros relying on Backe and Rodriguez to be big performers for them this year.  Backe -- when he is not injured -- looks like a solid pitcher.  Rodriguez did show real improvement last season and it is not unreasonable to expect him to continue to get better.  But I think that Woody is done and Sampson just doesn't look like any more than a fill-in pitcher.  Unfortunately, the the Astros seem commited to Williams because they owe him a lot of money for next season. 

I agree about Backe and Wandy, both solid guys who should only get better. With the new offense I'd assume after the first 3 in the rotation you need anyone with a heart beat pitching while relying on the offense to win the game. Woody can eat innings and if he gets to the 180ip range I think its money you can't regret spending. I still think that 5th starter won't be Sampson or Paulino and more likely someone we've yet to bring in.

[HudsonHawk]

According to this agent, the fallout is that now every team will demand to talk to the player directly and cite the A-Rod dealings as a reason for their concerns with Boras.  If Scott Boras does not relent and allow a team to speak to the player, he will face the same scrutiny he faced in the A-Rod affair.  So the big problem the Astros had with Boras was not only the lies and distortions but not being able to talk to Carlos Beltran directly (unlike the Mets who were because Boras needed them to peak the interest of the Yankees... who knew other than Boras that he would have serious interest from the Long Islanders and their owner?).

Many organizations will now insist that Boras allow the player free access to the organization and vice versa.

We shall see.

The CBA is pretty clear about this.  Clubs may require direct access to the player once during negotiations.  After that, they must deal with the player's agent, if the player requests so.  They cannot exclude the agent and they cannot refuse to continue negotiations with said agent without the player's presence.

[Noe]

The CBA is pretty clear about this.  Clubs may require direct access to the player once during negotiations.  After that, they must deal with the player's agent, if the player requests so.  They cannot exclude the agent and they cannot refuse to continue negotiations with said agent without the player's presence.

Thanks.  The problem is that now most organization have evidence that while they negotiate with the agent that should be representing their offer to the players, this one particular one does not relay the information to the player at all.

I don't know if they have recourse under the CBA, but now the organization can claim very loudly they feel this agent is not negotiating in good faith and appeal to the union to allow for more direct meetings with the player.  I'm not sure if anything will come from it, but at very least there is now some evidence to support the supposition that Boras is not representing the organizations back to the player and that could lead to some serious CBA negotiation next time around.

We shall see.

[HudsonHawk]

Thanks.  The problem is that now most organization have evidence that while they negotiate with the agent that should be representing their offer to the players, this one particular one does not relay the information to the player at all.

I don't know if they have recourse under the CBA, but now the organization can claim very loudly they feel this agent is not negotiating in good faith and appeal to the union to allow for more direct meetings with the player.  I'm not sure if anything will come from it, but at very least there is now some evidence to support the supposition that Boras is not representing the organizations back to the player and that could lead to some serious CBA negotiation next time around.

We shall see.

I think that's the whole idea behind allowing the club one "player present" demand.  To ensure that the player knows what the agent is doing on his behalf.  But ultimately if the player doesn't want to be a part of it, the club can't refuse to deal with his agent.  Back in the day before agents were common, clubs would routinely take advantage of a player's naivete.  Agents put the players back on an even playing field with respect to the legal negotiations.  Agents made sure the players weren't getting ripped off by the club.  But with guys like Boras, it seems the players are still the victims of money-grubbing profiteers, only this time they are supposedly on the players side. 

[Rebel Jew]

If this is true I think its the perfect way to limit Boras' absolute destruction of the free agent ($$) market. Kudos to owners and front offices for standing up to him. The thing that was so great about the A-Rod negotiations was when Warren Buffet sought A-Rod out and basically told him he's the talent and the reason for this money about to come his way, he should be the one talking to the Yankees and sorting his own situation out contract-wise. I guess this is why A-Rod and Boras are no longer on speaking terms.

dude, i hate to break it to you, but A-Rod got a 10 year contract worth $275 million by following boras' advice to opt out of his contract.  maybe he didn't get an ownership piece of the marlins or whatever other rumors were out there, but the guy signed a deal even more ridiculous than the original deal everybody thought was so ridiculous.  to think this is the end of boras or even a check yourself before you wreck yourself to boras is pure delusion.

[pravata]

dude, i hate to break it to you, but A-Rod got a 10 year contract worth $275 million by following boras' advice to opt out of his contract.  maybe he didn't get an ownership piece of the marlins or whatever other rumors were out there, but the guy signed a deal even more ridiculous than the original deal everybody thought was so ridiculous.  to think this is the end of boras or even a check yourself before you wreck yourself to boras is pure delusion.

Rodriguez has publicly repudiated Boras.  Boras had nothing to do with the new contract other than filling out the paperwork.  Kenny Rogers and Greg Maddux both negotiated their own contracts.  Management isnt "standing up to him", his clients are.

[legs_of_eggs]

dude, i hate to break it to you, but A-Rod got a 10 year contract worth $275 million by following boras' advice to opt out of his contract.  maybe he didn't get an ownership piece of the marlins or whatever other rumors were out there, but the guy signed a deal even more ridiculous than the original deal everybody thought was so ridiculous.  to think this is the end of boras or even a check yourself before you wreck yourself to boras is pure delusion.

Boras' advice was obvious, an orangatang could've figured out you opt out of that contract and cash in on a career season. I do think its a big deal that Boras' most elite expensive client who Boras signed at a very young age and supposedly had a very close relationship with and A-Rod completely undermined Boras and exclusively negotiated with Yankees management. In your words, if he doesn't check himself before he wrecks himself he might find more clients going the Maddux-Rogers-Arod route.

[Rebel Jew]

Boras' advice was obvious, an orangatang could've figured out you opt out of that contract and cash in on a career season. I do think its a big deal that Boras' most elite expensive client who Boras signed at a very young age and supposedly had a very close relationship with and A-Rod completely undermined Boras and exclusively negotiated with Yankees management. In your words, if he doesn't check himself before he wrecks himself he might find more clients going the Maddux-Rogers-Arod route.

i guess i missed all this other stuff.  you guys are right.  i'm an idiot.