Author Topic: Chron Bloggers....  (Read 4426 times)

S.P. Rodriguez

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Chron Bloggers....
« on: December 26, 2007, 09:37:17 am »
"If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed, if you do read the newspaper you are misinformed."

"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man. "

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pravata

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2007, 10:05:07 am »
Ortiz mentions MusicMan's October dismantling of the LA Times original article on the Grimsley affidavit.  He also provides a link to this very website.  Can you say "ass" in a family newspaper? (As opposed to providing an illustration.) He's now seriously confusing the Mitchell Report with a legal document.

Limey

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2007, 10:12:47 am »
WTF happened to Nash's hair?
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

pravata

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2007, 10:13:18 am »
WTF happened to Nash's hair?

It was always like that.

Limey

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2007, 10:14:33 am »
He's now seriously confusing the Mitchell Report with a legal document.

I believe that is the raison d'être of the Mitchell Report.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

Limey

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2007, 10:15:22 am »
It was always like that.

Maybe he wore a cap before, but it seems a little too quick to have gone to the full Picard.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

pravata

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2007, 10:25:58 am »
I believe that is the raison d'être of the Mitchell Report.

You'd think this statment by Senator Mitchell would have cleared that up,

"This is not a legal proceeding. That's for others to decide. Let's be clear about that. This is a private investigation, without any power to compel cooperation or participation. It is not a judicial proceeding. It is not a trial,"
Link

But no.  Pretending it is a legal document, and pretending to analyze it as a legal document suits Hardin's purpose, as well as gives Ortiz a chance to ask his "lawyer acquaintance" about the thing.

Astroholic

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2007, 10:30:50 am »
WTF happened to Nash's hair?

Fair accurate opinion in a Chron blog.  What is this world coming to.  Nice report MN.  Wonder if Justice will start taking swipes at you now.

pravata

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2007, 10:34:47 am »
Fair accurate opinion in a Chron blog.  What is this world coming to.  Nice report MN.  Wonder if Justice will start taking swipes at you now.

That was posted in the Chronicle's Fan Blog.  Those aren't "real", "professional", "reporters".  So, as far as Pinwheel is concerned, he's sitting in his Mom's basement in his underwear with the rest of us.

Limey

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2007, 10:38:05 am »
You'd think this statment by Senator Mitchell would have cleared that up,

"This is not a legal proceeding. That's for others to decide. Let's be clear about that. This is a private investigation, without any power to compel cooperation or participation. It is not a judicial proceeding. It is not a trial,"
Link

But no.  Pretending it is a legal document, and pretending to analyze it as a legal document suits Hardin's purpose, as well as gives Ortiz a chance to ask his "lawyer acquaintance" about the thing.

Orson Welles put a disclaimer on the front of his 1938 radio dramatisation of "The War of the Worlds".  How did that pan out?
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.

Astroholic

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2007, 10:41:31 am »
That was posted in the Chronicle's Fan Blog.  Those aren't "real", "professional", "reporters".  So, as far as Pinwheel is concerned, he's sitting in his Mom's basement in his underwear with the rest of us.

Do you really think that Justice and all of his cronies are not familiar with OWA and the great information (especially the minor league information) presented on this site?

pravata

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2007, 10:44:18 am »
Do you really think that Justice and all of his cronies are not familiar with OWA and the great information (especially the minor league information) presented on this site?

They're quite familar. Justice has refered to us in the manner I posted. 

Noe

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2007, 10:44:56 am »
You'd think this statment by Senator Mitchell would have cleared that up,

"This is not a legal proceeding. That's for others to decide. Let's be clear about that. This is a private investigation, without any power to compel cooperation or participation. It is not a judicial proceeding. It is not a trial,"
Link

But no.  Pretending it is a legal document, and pretending to analyze it as a legal document suits Hardin's purpose, as well as gives Ortiz a chance to ask his "lawyer acquaintance" about the thing.

I think this was part of Mitchell's plan to avoid having to go through an exhaustive set of standards for investigation.  It's not a legal document, merely a private investigation for the MLB so it has a lower threshold. Having said that, since this was made public... very public... the legality remains that of a lawsuit of libel or slander.  In that regard, it is prudent if you're one of the people named to pursue any legal recourse available to you if you feel you've been damaged.

Therein lies the rub.

The most prudent thing for many would've been to keep quiet about the allegations made in the report since it was not meant to be a legal document.  And the chances of punishment from the commissioner was very low... until players started to fess up and provide reasons for the commish to act (and look very good in the eyes of the public and the lawmakers as being tough on drugs).  But this where Roger Clemens has an Achilles heel. 

He cannot keep quiet.

pravata

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2007, 10:45:02 am »
Orson Welles put a disclaimer on the front of his 1938 radio dramatisation of "The War of the Worlds".  How did that pan out?

A lot of stupid people did a lot of stupid things and made themselves look very stupid.  Monumentally, historically, stupid.

pravata

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2007, 10:46:02 am »
I think this was part of Mitchell's plan to avoid having to go through an exhaustive set of standards for investigation.  It's not a legal document, merely a private investigation for the MLB so it has a lower threshold. Having said that, since this was made public... very public... the legality remains that of a lawsuit of libel or slander.  In that regard, it is prudent if you're one of the people named to pursue any legal recourse available to you if you feel you've been damaged.

Therein lies the rub.

The most prudent thing for many would've been to keep quiet about the allegations made in the report since it was not meant to be a legal document.  And the chances of punishment from the commissioner was very low... until players started to fess up and provide reasons for the commish to act (and look very good in the eyes of the public and the lawmakers as being tough on drugs).  But this where Roger Clemens has an Achilles heel. 

He cannot keep quiet.

He also can't file a lawsuit.  So the lawyer blusters as best he can.

Noe

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2007, 10:49:20 am »
They're quite familar. Justice has refered to us in the manner I posted. 

I always thought it was John X. Lopez who said that of this site.  You may be right though, even if it came out of Lopez's keyboard, some of that attitude may be the same for Pinwheel and others.

Noe

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2007, 10:59:18 am »
He also can't file a lawsuit.  So the lawyer blusters as best he can.

Clemens seems to be strategic on what he's doing.  If you want the public to even remotely be on your side, provide a standard for yourself of being defamed and slandered... even if you don't even stand a chance  of legally suing anyone.  The best way to *look* tough on the side of being defamed is get the best lawsuit lawyer in town.  Hardin is a criminal lawyer by career, which is why this is sort of funny in a way, but a name is a name nonetheless.

The other front Clemens seems to be using is the very controlled environments (so far) to speak carefully about the issue at hand.  "I didn't do it" is not enough right now, it has to be "I didn't do it" by way of very calculated public airing.  A PR move if you will to make sure he has all the damage control he needs.

All in all though, I sit here in awe of this attempt to sway public opinion.  Clemens had nothing to fear in terms of public backlash on the whole and if he was worried about his name being dragged through a McGuire-like situation prior to inclusion to the HOF, well... that is ego talking right there.

And that is Roger Clemens, what makes him the best pitcher of the century in the eyes of some also makes him his own worse enemy in other ways like this whole circus that is playing out before us.

pravata

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2007, 11:07:04 am »
I always thought it was John X. Lopez who said that of this site.  You may be right though, even if it came out of Lopez's keyboard, some of that attitude may be the same for Pinwheel and others.

Justice says stuff like that on the radio.  Today he's making hay out of calling his readers "stupid".

S.P. Rodriguez

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2007, 12:00:40 pm »
Ortiz mentions MusicMan's October dismantling of the LA Times original article on the Grimsley affidavit.  He also provides a link to this very website.  Can you say "ass" in a family newspaper? (As opposed to providing an illustration.) He's now seriously confusing the Mitchell Report with a legal document.

I especially enjoyed the subject line of the thread in question.  I believe it read "When shit really hits the fan"???  I'm too lazy to verify it but it definitely had "SHIT" in the title.  He proceeded to call this site harsh/abbrasive but mostly informative.  Personally, some of the clark/troll clones seemed a little too pompous, leading me to suspect the Chronicle writers had infested OWA. 

I also though I recognized the name.  Isn't Michael Nash a poster here?  Lurker?  I don't recall but the name seemed familiar. 

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Astroholic

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2007, 12:16:02 pm »
Isn't Michael Nash a poster here? 


Yes. At least he was. 



p.s.
I think you asked a similar question in this post or at least it explains who Nash is.

http://www.orangewhoopass.com/forums/index.php?topic=54141.0
« Last Edit: December 26, 2007, 12:27:15 pm by Astroholic »

KayJay90

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2007, 07:27:36 pm »
Clemens seems to be strategic on what he's doing.  If you want the public to even remotely be on your side, provide a standard for yourself of being defamed and slandered... even if you don't even stand a chance  of legally suing anyone.  The best way to *look* tough on the side of being defamed is get the best lawsuit lawyer in town.  Hardin is a criminal lawyer by career, which is why this is sort of funny in a way, but a name is a name nonetheless.
The other front Clemens seems to be using is the very controlled environments (so far) to speak carefully about the issue at hand.  "I didn't do it" is not enough right now, it has to be "I didn't do it" by way of very calculated public airing.  A PR move if you will to make sure he has all the damage control he needs.

All in all though, I sit here in awe of this attempt to sway public opinion.  Clemens had nothing to fear in terms of public backlash on the whole and if he was worried about his name being dragged through a McGuire-like situation prior to inclusion to the HOF, well... that is ego talking right there.

And that is Roger Clemens, what makes him the best pitcher of the century in the eyes of some also makes him his own worse enemy in other ways like this whole circus that is playing out before us.
Well, Roger has been a criminal before, at least in the arrest and charge phase.  Remember when he and his brother were arrested in that brawl at Bayou Mama's in 2001? 

It was only a few months after Roger's ever-so-public meltdown in the ALCS pitching for the Red Sox against the Oakland A's.  If the A's won that game #4 Roger started, the Red Sox would be ousted from the playoffs.  Roger went ballistic against umpire Terry Cooney in the second inning (pressure of being in a "save us, Roger!" situation?) and got kicked out of the game, threatening later to find out where Cooney lived, and "get" him.  The Red Sox lost the game and the series.

Anyway, a few months later he and brother Gary were whooping it up at Bayou Mama's, and Gary got into a brawl.  An off-duty cop security guard attempted to get brother Gary out of there, and Roger didn't like that.  He jumped on the back of the cop and attempted to throttle him.   They were both arrested for aggravated assault (a felony), but later the charge was dropped to a misdemeanor, and later they were not charged.   Nice judge?  Or do you think Rusty Hardin got the two out of hot water that time?

I have to wonder, in this Mitchell Report case, why on earth did Roger hang on to the services of Brian McNamee even through 2006, and speak up in support of McNamee after the Grimsley affidavit, if he and his lawyer think McNamee is such a criminal and a liar?

(there's a lot of archival links in the NY Daily News and the NY Times, if anyone cares to Google them)

pravata

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2007, 09:32:22 am »
Well, Roger has been a criminal before, at least in the arrest and charge phase.  Remember when he and his brother were arrested in that brawl at Bayou Mama's in 2001? 

It was only a few months after Roger's ever-so-public meltdown in the ALCS pitching for the Red Sox against the Oakland A's.  If the A's won that game #4 Roger started, the Red Sox would be ousted from the playoffs.  Roger went ballistic against umpire Terry Cooney in the second inning (pressure of being in a "save us, Roger!" situation?) and got kicked out of the game, threatening later to find out where Cooney lived, and "get" him.  The Red Sox lost the game and the series.

Anyway, a few months later he and brother Gary were whooping it up at Bayou Mama's, and Gary got into a brawl.  An off-duty cop security guard attempted to get brother Gary out of there, and Roger didn't like that.  He jumped on the back of the cop and attempted to throttle him.   They were both arrested for aggravated assault (a felony), but later the charge was dropped to a misdemeanor, and later they were not charged.   Nice judge?  Or do you think Rusty Hardin got the two out of hot water that time?

I have to wonder, in this Mitchell Report case, why on earth did Roger hang on to the services of Brian McNamee even through 2006, and speak up in support of McNamee after the Grimsley affidavit, if he and his lawyer think McNamee is such a criminal and a liar?

(there's a lot of archival links in the NY Daily News and the NY Times, if anyone cares to Google them)

Hardin was not Clemens lawyer in that case, although he has defended sports figures for similar scrapes.  Hardin is no Cyber Chicken Lawyer, but this situation may be about to escalate quickly, it could really get out of hand fast.

After the Grimsley affidavit was released, Hardin challenged,

"Roger Clemens did not take steroids, and anybody who says he did had better start looking for a hell of a good lawyer."

News is today that McNamee has added a “hell of a good lawyer”

Richard D. Emery a prominent New York lawyer who has made his mark in the area of civil liberties with particular experience in libel and defamation cases.

(Meanwhile Hardin,  after announcing he’s conducting his own investigation and questioning of potential witnesses, appeals to the media,)

"I am blatantly, in the most self-serving fashion possible, urging the media to do the same thing."

(and appeals to the public)

“If we’re trying to decide whether to sponsor this guy as a truth-teller for a report that’s going to stain the names of people if it’s ever made public, shouldn’t we look at whether he’s a truth-teller?” Hardin, who is 66, asked in a telephone interview Thursday. “There’s this automatic assumption to believe what the Mitchell report says,” he added. “The only thing left to me is to try to appeal to the public sense of fairness.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/28/sports/baseball/28lawyer.html?em&ex=1198990800&en=05c6d2534f18e743&ei=5087%0A

(and continues to hold out the possibility of a lawsuit)

“But I have to tell you, we're moving more and more in the direction of considering [a lawsuit] now, in spite of it. “ (“It” is the higher standard of proof for a public figure.)

"I would say simply that's a possibility. No decision has been made about it. Quite frankly, the decisions about lawsuits and stuff will come later.”
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071223&content_id=2336229&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

(Meanwhile “hell of a good lawyer” Richard D. Emery is more direct,)

“If Roger Clemens continues to play fast and loose with the truth on ‘60 Minutes’ and he continues to call Brian McNamee a liar then we will proceed with a defamation suit,”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/29/sports/baseball/29clemens.html?ref=sports




MikeyBoy

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2007, 10:01:46 am »
Hardin was not Clemens lawyer in that case, although he has defended sports figures for similar scrapes.  Hardin is no Cyber Chicken Lawyer, but this situation may be about to escalate quickly...

Nicely done...thanks, pravata.
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das

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2007, 02:14:51 pm »

“But I have to tell you, we're moving more and more in the direction of considering [a lawsuit] now, in spite of it. “ (“It” is the higher standard of proof for a public figure.)

"I would say simply that's a possibility. No decision has been made about it. Quite frankly, the decisions about lawsuits and stuff will come later.”


(Meanwhile “hell of a good lawyer” Richard D. Emery is more direct,)



Does Hardin come across as an 11th grader playing a lawyer or is it just me?  Everytime I see any of his quotes, I want to edit them to sound like an adult is talking...
Another trenchant comment by a jealous lesser intellect.

Limey

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Re: Chron Bloggers....
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2007, 09:09:26 am »
“If Roger Clemens continues to play fast and loose with the truth on ‘60 Minutes’ and he continues to call Brian McNamee a liar then we will proceed with a defamation suit,”

Lawyering becomes a lot simpler, and requires fewer words, when the truth is on your side.
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.