Can you still root for Tejada?

[Lurch]

I've happily ripped Bonds for years, and dont plan to stop.  Now what is appropriate for Tejada?

[Astroholic]

I've happily ripped Bonds for years, and dont plan to stop.  Now what is appropriate for Tejada?

Come on, where are in Houston were fans boo about everything.  South Philly.

[Colt 45]

Hang them all..................come on, who gives a shit.

I have more important things to worry about.

Go Astros go Tejada.

People make mistakes, give them a second chance.

[MusicMan]

I'll root for him in terms of the team.  I could give a shit about any of his personal achievements.  And he'll always be TeHGHada to me.

[Bench]

I'll root for him to do well for the team. Now his pusher Adam Piatt, on the other hand...

[pravata]

I've happily ripped Bonds for years, and dont plan to stop.  Now what is appropriate for Tejada?

I had doubts about him to begin with.  He's been pretty whiny with the Orioles. 

[Gizzmonic]

Does anyone remember Tejada and Melvin Mora doing a gay little hopscotch dance in the infield after beating the Astros in interleague (in '05 I think?).

I haven't liked Tejada since then.  I don't plan on liking him now.  I hope he does well for the Astros' sake, but unless he has a major attitude change, I don't plan on joining the Tejada fan club.

I've happily ripped Bonds for years, and dont plan to stop.  Now what is appropriate for Tejada?

[Russ99]

If all they have on him is that airport story, 2 photocopied checks to a teammate(alleged pusher) in 2003 and a quote from Canseco's book, then I'll grudgingly support him as an Astro.

However, if they ever come up with a test for HGH, he could be in trouble... along with a substantial percentage of other major leaguers.

[londoncalling]

If Tejada gets booed will Drayton fire him?

[David in Jackson]

I'm baffled by the timing of the Tejada trade given the Wallet's concern for the "good guy" public image of the team.   Surely, Miggi's name was expected to be in the report and we all knew the report was coming out today.

[Limey]

If he's clean and stays that way, I'll root for him.  If he's not clean, I'll lead the angry, torch-bearing mob that goes after him.

[JackAstro]

If he's clean and stays that way, I'll root for him.  If he's not clean, I'll lead the angry, torch-bearing mob that goes after him.

Short of him getting caught purchasing or using it, there's no way we can know, right? There's not a test for HGH, is there?

[Lurch]

If he's clean and stays that way, I'll root for him.  If he's not clean, I'll lead the angry, torch-bearing mob that goes after him.

He's not clean.  Like we know Bonds is not clean.

[Lurch]

I'm baffled by the timing of the Tejada trade given the Wallet's concern for the "good guy" public image of the team.   Surely, Miggi's name was expected to be in the report and we all knew the report was coming out today.

So my first guess was that they had information saying he was not in it.  Apparently that was wrong.  Second guess is that the Orioles put a deadline on the deal.

[Tuffguy]

I'll root for him, like I root for all astros, but man, I sure will be happy when that contract ends and we can finnally move on and not be assossiated with this.

[ybbodeus]

What's Tejada's nickname, Miggy?  Do you think that El Caballo's faction, "Los Caballitos", will accept Tejada with a nickname like that?

Might we possibly see the formation of a rival group, "Los Miguelitos", occupying a different platform tier from that which Los Caballitos operates?  

Or, worse, might there be a race at each "doors open" for the coveted terrace view that Los Caballitos currently is afforded?

This could be the movie within the show!  Or I could get back to friggin' work.

[Lurch]

I'll root for him, like I root for all astros, but man, I sure will be happy when that contract ends and we can finnally move on and not be assossiated with this.

And Drayton wept.

[Twoniner]

  If he stops using HGH after we gave up the farm system for  HGH Miggy,  I will be fairly pissed.

[chuck]

If he's an Astro, I'll root for him.

It seems like a distant memory now, but I distinctly recall my rooting for the DQ. If I can root for that shithead while he's wearing an Astros uniform I can root for anyone.

[ybbodeus]

And Drayton wept.

Not to mention someone's 7th grade vocabulary teacher.

[Jacksonian]

As always I'll root for the Astros until after the last out of the last game of the season.

[kevwun]

There is no urine test for HGH, which is the only type of test that is used in MLB right now.  There is a blood test that detects it, though.  If they want to, they can.

[jasonact]

I've happily ripped Bonds for years, and dont plan to stop.  Now what is appropriate for Tejada?

I have never ripped Bonds (and was slightly irritated by those who did, for various reasons). I plan on rooting fully for Tejada (and Stephen Randolph, should he make the team).

[Limey]

He's not clean.  Like we know Bonds is not clean.

Clean now.  What he did whilst juiced wasn't for the Astros so isn't relevant to the Astros going forward.

[astrox]

There is no urine test for HGH, which is the only test that is used in MLB right now.  There is a blood test that detects it, though.  If they want to, they can.

Not reliable http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/2007/09/14/2007-09-14_baseball_still_awaits_reliable_hgh_test-2.html?ref=rss

[Limey]

I'll root for him, like I root for all astros, but man, I sure will be happy when that contract ends and we can finnally move on and not be assossiated with this.

All 30 clubs had juicers on the list.

[MusicMan]

I have never ripped Bonds (and was slightly irritated by those who did, for various reasons).

I'm curious... why?

[VirtualBob]

I'm baffled by the timing of the Tejada trade given the Wallet's concern for the "good guy" public image of the team.   Surely, Miggi's name was expected to be in the report and we all knew the report was coming out today.

Timing may have had a lot to do with the midnight offer for contract tenders.  Everett was the planned starter (for what would surely have been a big raise from his $2.8mm 2007 salary) before the trade, and off the team afterwards.  And Burke thought his stock had fallen!

[kevwun]

The test is deemed reliable enough to be used at the Olympics.  Their testing and punishment record is a lot better than MLB.

[TheWizard]

All 30 clubs had juicers on the list.

I'll always continue to cheer the Astros.  Unless... a report surfaces that Brad Ausmus has secretly been using his super-intellect in order to brilliantly construct a scheme to murder all babies and puppies in the known world. 

[Taras Bulba]

I'll always continue to cheer the Astros.  Unless... a report surfaces that Brad Ausmus has secretly been using his super-intellect in order to brilliantly construct a scheme to murder all babies and puppies in the known world. 

No, that was Karl Rove.

[Trey]

The test is deemed reliable enough to be used at the Olympics.  Their testing and punishment record is a lot better than MLB.

Their punishment record is a lot longer than mlb's, but it's not necessarily a good thing.  They have no problems kicking athletes out for taking cold medicine that they admit gives no performance advantage.

There's a happy medium in there somewhere.  Using unreliable tests isn't it.

[Trey]

I'll always continue to cheer the Astros.  Unless... a report surfaces that Brad Ausmus has secretly been using his super-intellect in order to brilliantly construct a scheme to murder all babies and puppies in the known world. 

I'd still root for them as long as he did it while playing for the Tigers

[Limey]

No, that was Karl Rove.

He said it was Tom Daschel.

[kevwun]

The cough medicine thing is done to close loopholes, so athletes can't claim they took some Nyquil because it happens to contain some of the same chemicals as a PED.  The WADA tries it's best to preserve the integrity of competition.  The rules have to be insanely strict to do that.

[Trey]

The cough medicine thing is done to close loopholes, so athletes can't claim they took some Nyquil because it happens to contain some of the same chemicals as a PED.  The WADA tries it's best to preserve the integrity of competition.  The rules have to be insanely strict to do that.

One reason you do drug testing is to make it fair.  Give a level playing field.  Throwing people out without reason eliminates the fairness you were seeking in the first place.

[kevwun]

If they don't do things like that everyone will be taking cough medicine at the next Olympics.

[Trey]

If they don't do things like that everyone will be taking cough medicine at the next Olympics.

I'm talking about stuff that the WADA admits give "no competitive advantage."  Not, "whoops, I accidentally took some Pepto laced with amphetamines."

[austro]

I'm talking about stuff that the WADA admits give "no competitive advantage."  Not, "whoops, I accidentally took some Pepto laced with amphetamines."

I don't think that was the intended meaning. The cough syrup masks the signature of other PEDs, so somebody could be using a PED, then drop some cough syrup and say "oh it's just cough syrup". Sure the cough syrup gives you no competitive advantage, but its covering up something that does.

[Trey]

I don't think that was the intended meaning. The cough syrup masks the signature of other PEDs, so somebody could be using a PED, then drop some cough syrup and say "oh it's just cough syrup". Sure the cough syrup gives you no competitive advantage, but its covering up something that does.

When you get some time, and you get past the picture of Floyd Landis, read this:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sp-doping10dec10,0,1444445.story

[jbm]

I'm baffled by the timing of the Tejada trade given the Wallet's concern for the "good guy" public image of the team.   Surely, Miggi's name was expected to be in the report and we all knew the report was coming out today.

I agree.  I don't see any spin which would absolve them.  Either they knew the report was coming out and Tejada might be on it, or they act dumb, like this revelation was all unexpected.  Neither explanation works.  Since I don't think they are stupid, I can only assume that they were unconcerned about the public taint attached to Tejada, and still confident in his ability to produce offensively without the aid of supplements.

[Jacksonian]

I agree.  I don't see any spin which would absolve them.  Either they knew the report was coming out and Tejada might be on it, or they act dumb, like this revelation was all unexpected.  Neither explanation works.  Since I don't think they are stupid, I can only assume that they were unconcerned about the public taint attached to Tejada, and still confident in ability to produce offensively without the aid of supplements.

They aren't worried about fan reaction today.  They expect Tejada to produce offensively during the season.  By doing so fan reaction will be positive during the season, in MMP, while Drayton is in attendance.

[Lurch]

I agree.  I don't see any spin which would absolve them.  Either they knew the report was coming out and Tejada might be on it, or they act dumb, like this revelation was all unexpected.  Neither explanation works.  Since I don't think they are stupid, I can only assume that they were unconcerned about the public taint attached to Tejada, and still confident in ability to produce offensively without the aid of supplements.

Yet, neither assumption is at all reasonable.  Drayton should be lacing up his dancing shoes right about now.  Should be quite a show

[Froback]

I agree.  I don't see any spin which would absolve them.  Either they knew the report was coming out and Tejada might be on it, or they act dumb, like this revelation was all unexpected.  Neither explanation works.  Since I don't think they are stupid, I can only assume that they were unconcerned about the public taint attached to Tejada, and still confident in his ability to produce offensively without the aid of supplements.

They have the built in responses that are surround "Second chances" and "that was in the past and we are sure he has changed" or the always popular "We have discussed this with him, and he acknowledged it was wrong and assured us it won't happen again.  He has matured alot since then as a person and a ballplayer."

[pravata]

Yet, neither assumption is at all reasonable.  Drayton should be lacing up his dancing shoes right about now.  Should be quite a show

I can't wait.  I hope he has the guts to address this himself. 

[pravata]

They have the built in responses that are surround "Second chances" and "that was in the past and we are sure he has changed" or the always popular "We have discussed this with him, and he acknowledged it was wrong and assured us it won't happen again.  He has matured alot since then as a person and a ballplayer."

And, "What, are you an infant?  We cheat and lie just like everyone else.  It's about the munnnn- eee.  That "Good Guys" stuff is for the chumps.  I'd run over my grandmother, well, your grandmother for a buck.  Don't forget, we've got the Select a Seat event on Saturday, Link bring the kids we got entertainment for the whole family."

[Lurch]

I can't wait.  I hope he has the guts to address this himself. 

And take comments.  Dick is pretty lively in today's blog.  I'd like to see him ask the right questions.

[MusicMan]

Dick is pretty lively in today's blog.  I'd like to see him ask the right questions.

My favorite Chron blog comment ever:

"YOU'RE going to love Miguel Tejada. You may not love this trade, but I guarantee you're going to love the player Ed Wade acquired Wednesday.

Tejada is an impact player in every sense of the word. He's a first-rate clutch hitter with a swing tailored for Minute Maid Park. His throwing arm might be the best among major league shortstops."

Do you know who wrote this?

[kevwun]

The answer to the question would be no, because Dick forgets what he writes as soon as he types the last period.

[DVauthrin]

While I think taking steroids is deplorable, MLB isn't the only sport with this widespread problem and i'm sure tejada is clean as an astro so I have no issue with rooting for him on the home nine.

Plus I don't think these were the only guys doing it either.

[headhunter]

I've happily ripped Bonds for years, and dont plan to stop.  Now what is appropriate for Tejada?

I think the appropriate thing is give him a jersey and a locker and say bienvenidos Senor Tejada. I think most folks have gotten over the young Mr. Pence's DUI. I think there will be room for forgiving our new shortstop if he produces.

[hostros7]

Pence's DUI didn't give him a competitive edge between the lines.  Apples to oranges. 

[Froback]

Plus I don't think these were the only guys doing it either.

It is kind of like turning on the light at night and seeing a roach.  You might think, "It is only one roach.", but those who know better think, "Aw crap, how many more are where I can't see them?"

[austro]

When you get some time, and you get past the picture of Floyd Landis, read this:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-sp-doping10dec10,0,1444445.story

Thanks, that was interesting read.

[jasonact]

I'm curious... why?

Without getting too much into this, I think the media and fans have focused too much on Bonds in the steroids issue, which has taken attention away from the real problem, which is the pervasive, systemic problem of substance abuse in baseball (and probably many other sports as well). Baseball looked the other way, and in some cases may have actually encouraged this behavior. I find that to be the greater offense because the complicity was happening on a systemic level, rather than simply an individual level. While this does not exonerate Bonds and other who may or may not have used, it provides a context for understanding the position they were put in.

I see Bonds as a surly man who is nothing more than another member of the Steroid Era.

[Noe]

Without getting too much into this, I think the media and fans have focused too much on Bonds in the steroids issue, which has taken attention away from the real problem, which is the pervasive, systemic problem of substance abuse in baseball (and probably many other sports as well). Baseball looked the other way, and in some cases may have actually encouraged this behavior. I find that to be the greater offense because the complicity was happening on a systemic level, rather than simply an individual level. While this does not exonerate Bonds and other who may or may not have used, it provides a context for understanding the position they were put in.

I see Bonds as a surly man who is nothing more than another member of the Steroid Era.

Well said.  Bonds is a convergence of the perfect storm that has hit.  Steriod-mania, A-hole personality and hallowed home run record... it's all there and cause for some personal feelings attached to all of this.

It had nowhere to go but to a public spectacle.

[headhunter]

Pence's DUI didn't give him a competitive edge between the lines.  Apples to oranges. 

So when Lugo got a little slap happy with his wife that was all right because it didn't give him a competitive edge? Lets call that one a pear.

The connection I see between the dui and steriod use is the abuse of a substance that many people condemn and gets their unmentionables all tight and twisted. also causes them to run for a soapbox in order to crow, which seems to relieve the discomfort. if you don't see a connection please forgive me, must be all that LSD I took making me see things that aren't there, again.

On this board and elsewhere many folks were very disappointed in Mr. Pence's DUI. And the dui could be viewed as far worse than steriod use because Pence could have killed anyone unlucky enough to driving at the same time he was. imagine a carload of dead baylor kids. fortunately nothing like that happened and  PENCE deservedly is a fan favorite.

Tejada cheated, and the league may punish him and he would deserve it. But he did not directly put the lives of others in danger. Except, perhaps, for any kid that idolized him and got the message that if you want to be like Miguel you might need to take steriods...Anyway, I hope that clean living, a good attitude, and great numbers make the Mr. Tejada a welcome member of the good guys®. Just like Mr. Pence.

[rambo2]

Pence's DUI didn't give him a competitive edge between the lines.  Apples to oranges. 

There are probably a lot more players out there that haven't been caught or named yet.

[MusicMan]

Without getting too much into this, I think the media and fans have focused too much on Bonds in the steroids issue, which has taken attention away from the real problem, which is the pervasive, systemic problem of substance abuse in baseball (and probably many other sports as well). Baseball looked the other way, and in some cases may have actually encouraged this behavior. I find that to be the greater offense because the complicity was happening on a systemic level, rather than simply an individual level. While this does not exonerate Bonds and other who may or may not have used, it provides a context for understanding the position they were put in.

I see Bonds as a surly man who is nothing more than another member of the Steroid Era.

I think that's very fair.  In my mind, it doesn't change the fact that Bonds is a racist, abusive asshole, but I can certainly understand the perspective that he's had more than his share of the steroid glare.

[Noe]

So when Lugo got a little slap happy with his wife that was all right because it didn't give him a competitive edge? Lets call that one a pear.

The connection I see between the dui and steriod use is the abuse of a substance that many people condemn and gets their unmentionables all tight and twisted. also causes them to run for a soapbox in order to crow, which seems to relieve the discomfort. if you don't see a connection please forgive me, must be all that LSD I took making me see things that aren't there, again.

On this board and elsewhere many folks were very disappointed in Mr. Pence's DUI. And the dui could be viewed as far worse than steriod use because Pence could have killed anyone unlucky enough to driving at the same time he was. imagine a carload of dead baylor kids. fortunately nothing like that happened and  PENCE deservedly is a fan favorite.

Tejada cheated, and the league may punish him and he would deserve it. But he did not directly put the lives of others in danger. Except, perhaps, for any kid that idolized him and got the message that if you want to be like Miguel you might need to take steriods...Anyway, I hope that clean living, a good attitude, and great numbers make the Mr. Tejada a welcome member of the good guys®. Just like Mr. Pence.

I think your point is better made with "greenies" and the rampant use of them in the MLB today.  No one is hiring an ex-Senator to write a report on that because it just lacks the oomph of the steriod-mania.  But it is the same difference, using drugs to gain an edge and in essence cheat to win.

[jasonact]

Well said.  Bonds is a convergence of the perfect storm that has hit.  Steriod-mania, A-hole personality and hallowed home run record... it's all there and cause for some personal feelings attached to all of this.

It had nowhere to go but to a public spectacle.

exactly. Bonds is not the problem. The only thing that separates him from the others on that list is that he holds the most valued record in sports, but that was only because he was the most gifted hitter of this generation, and he happened to play in the Steroid Era, and he fell into the same quag mire that many others fell into.

[Noe]

exactly. Bonds is not the problem. The only thing that separates him from the others on that list is that he holds the most valued record in sports, but that was only because he was the most gifted hitter of this generation, and he happened to play in the Steroid Era, and he fell into the same quag mire that many others fell into.

AND he's an A-Hole.

[jasonact]

I think that's very fair.  In my mind, it doesn't change the fact that Bonds is a racist, abusive asshole, but I can certainly understand the perspective that he's had more than his share of the steroid glare.

Absolutely. There are plenty of racist ass holes in baseball and all around us. Frankly, I don't care about them, certainly not enough to waste my time to "bash" them. They are what they are. No amount of bashing on my part will change that fact. Let's move on.

[headhunter]

I think your point is better made with "greenies" and the rampant use of them in the MLB today.  No one is hiring an ex-Senator to write a report on that because it just lacks the oomph of the steriod-mania.  But it is the same difference, using drugs to gain an edge and in essence cheat to win.

damn ive been square a long time...I dont even know what greenies are. What do they do? Are they fun?

[MusicMan]

damn ive been square a long time...I dont even know what greenies are. What do they do? Are they fun?

Greenies = amphetamines

[headhunter]

Greenies = amphetamines

so is that how we're trying to add speed and defense?

[Noe]

damn ive been square a long time...I dont even know what greenies are. What do they do? Are they fun?

Amphetamines.

They have been more the norm in the MLB landscape than steriods.  The grind of a 162 season means a player is not going to have the natural stamina to play every game or as many games as possible.  MLB play requires the player to be at his best night in and night out.  It's not going to happen naturally... so players for many years now have taken greenies (amphetamines) to get "up" for a game.  Most of the time, they hide in the coffee they drink before or even during the game.

Pete Rose, for example, got the name Charlie Hustle because of his all-out play and night in and night out hustle.  What was hush-hush by most players was that Rose was a hopped up greenie user, usually popping the pills right before the game and during the game.

No one has paid attention to this for years because no one has died from it, so it's been the MLB's dark little secret and in some cases even glorified as part of what you do to gain a competitive edge.  It is this sort of environment and culture that leads to the next level of PEDs like steriods.  The MLB fosters this attitude in the players and should not react with shock and awe that they're actually following through on what the culture has ingrained in them.

[gwat]

damn ive been square a long time...I dont even know what greenies are. What do they do? Are they fun?

Find an old copy of "BALL FOUR" and read it. It'll get you up to speed...circa 1969.

[Jose Cruz III]

I agree.  I don't see any spin which would absolve them.  Either they knew the report was coming out and Tejada might be on it, or they act dumb, like this revelation was all unexpected.  Neither explanation works.  Since I don't think they are stupid, I can only assume that they were unconcerned about the public taint attached to Tejada, and still confident in his ability to produce offensively without the aid of supplements.

Owners and GMs are not shying away from signing these guys because they knew the players were juicing long before there was a George Mitchell investigation. And according to at least one part of the Mitchell Report some teams were even looking to trade players when they found out the player had quit juicing.

I am not saying it is beyond baseball management teams to act as if these players have caused a travesty to the game. Even if they knew the players were on the juice long before anyone else did. But it makes it harder for them to do when they know the players know. Owners, GMs, and even the pristine Commissioner Selig will walk a tight rope for a while and wait for this to blow over.

[DVauthrin]

AND he's an A-Hole.

if he wasn't an A-hole he likely wouldn't be facing jail time do to this scandal.  but because he is, he was target numero uno, and thus sent down the river.

[Duke]

Without getting too much into this, I think the media and fans have focused too much on Bonds in the steroids issue, which has taken attention away from the real problem, which is the pervasive, systemic problem of substance abuse in baseball (and probably many other sports as well). Baseball looked the other way, and in some cases may have actually encouraged this behavior. I find that to be the greater offense because the complicity was happening on a systemic level, rather than simply an individual level. While this does not exonerate Bonds and other who may or may not have used, it provides a context for understanding the position they were put in.

I see Bonds as a surly man who is nothing more than another member of the Steroid Era.

I think the NCAA calls it lack of institutional control.  Didn't the report advocate amnesty for everybody in the SE?

[jasonact]

if he wasn't an A-hole he likely wouldn't be facing jail time do to this scandal.  but because he is, he was target numero uno, and thus sent down the river.

Um. No. He's facing jail time because he allegedly lied to the feds. That's something that both the a-holes and the nice guys have done and will continue to do.

[DVauthrin]

Um. No. He's facing jail time because he allegedly lied to the feds. That's something that both the a-holes and the nice guys have done and will continue to do.

then where is the jail time for palmeiro, who lied to congress, and has a positive test which bonds lacks?     Also would the feds have even been involved if bonds wasn't going after aaron's record and wasn't a genuine jerk, causing people to want to find dirt on him(ie leading to game of shadows).

[Lurch]

then where is the jail time for palmeiro, who lied to congress, and has a positive test which bonds lacks?     Also would the feds have even been involved if bonds wasn't going after aaron's record and wasn't a genuine jerk, causing people to want to find dirt on him(ie leading to game of shadows).

Palmeiro's test came after he spoke to Congress

[DVauthrin]

Palmeiro's test came after he spoke to Congress

point still remains you have concrete proof he doped  but he's not being tried for perjury though it's clear he did lie when taking the witness stand.   and game of shadows didn't appear until after bonds had testified either.

by no means am I defending bonds.

[Lurch]

And I'm by no means defending Palmerio, but that he tested positive at a later date in no way makes it clear he lied back during his testimony to Congress.  Hell, now knowing what we do about TeHGHada, his defense that Meguel gave him tainted B12 is actually more credible.

[jasonact]

then where is the jail time for palmeiro, who lied to congress, and has a positive test which bonds lacks?     Also would the feds have even been involved if bonds wasn't going after aaron's record and wasn't a genuine jerk, causing people to want to find dirt on him(ie leading to game of shadows).

Do you have any clue how Federal prosecutions work?
1. Lying to Congress, while still illegal, is not the same as lying to the Feds. If Congress decided they wanted to do something about it, they would.
2. Palmiero's positive test was after the testimony. That alone would keep them from pressing charges, if that was all they had, because it is only circumstantial evidence. The Feds don't press charges unless they feel the case is rock-solid.
3. Barry Bonds is not being prosecuted because he used steroids; it's because he lied to the Feds. This is an important distinction.
4. The Feds couldn't care less about some sports record. This was about BALCO's illegal drug activity, and Bonds was a peripheral player until he lied. His identity as a jerk is irrelevant.

[Lurch]

Great line:
"8. Suggested follow-up investigation for Mitchell: How could 18 Orioles have used performance-enhancing drugs and have still performed at such a poor level for so long?"

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-maese1213,0,1634908.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout

[DVauthrin]

Do you have any clue how Federal prosecutions work?
1. Lying to Congress, while still illegal, is not the same as lying to the Feds. If Congress decided they wanted to do something about it, they would.
2. Palmiero's positive test was after the testimony. That alone would keep them from pressing charges, if that was all they had, because it is only circumstantial evidence. The Feds don't press charges unless they feel the case is rock-solid.
3. Barry Bonds is not being prosecuted because he used steroids; it's because he lied to the Feds. This is an important distinction.
4. The Feds couldn't care less about some sports record. This was about BALCO's illegal drug activity, and Bonds was a peripheral player until he lied. His identity as a jerk is irrelevant.

I know exactly why he's getting prosecuted.    As to point 2, I strongly doubt palmeiro goes to congress in march, says i never knowingly use steroids, then before may of that same yr just starts using roids and fails a steroid test in MLB.   Nor do I think he had no clue what he was injecting into his body.   Thus, I don't think they dug hard enough for dirt on his steroid usage.   

As to point 1, you are right as you know more than me on it, but again the two situations are not that different.   Finally, his identity as said jerk may be irrelevant to the Feds, but i'm sure it wasn't lost on the authors of game of shadows when they targeted him first and foremost in their book.  The significance of which is that book is where the proof he was using generates its existence.

[jasonact]

I know exactly why he's getting prosecuted.    As to point 2, I strongly doubt palmeiro goes to congress in march, says i never knowingly use steroids, then before may of that same yr just starts using roids and fails a steroid test in MLB.   Nor do I think he had no clue what he was injecting into his body.   Thus, I don't think they dug hard enough for dirt on his steroid usage.

 
When you are talking about federal prosecutions, "strongly doubt" means absolutely nothing. You need hard evidence.

As to point 1, you are right as you know more than me on it, but again the two situations are not that different.   Finally, his identity as said jerk may be irrelevant to the Feds, but i'm sure it wasn't lost on the authors of game of shadows when they targeted him first and foremost in their book.  The significance of which is that book is where the proof he was using generates its existence.

Again, the Feds were investigating BALCO and talked to Bonds as part of that investigation. If Bonds had told the truth, as Jason Giambi allegedly did, he would not be facing jail time right now. To my knowledge, much fewer people regard Giambi as much of a jerk. Yet, the only thing that distinguishes him from Bonds in the eyes of the Feds is that Giambi told the truth and Bonds lied. That's all there is to it.

[jasonact]

Great line:
"8. Suggested follow-up investigation for Mitchell: How could 18 Orioles have used performance-enhancing drugs and have still performed at such a poor level for so long?"

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-maese1213,0,1634908.story?coll=bal_tab01_layout

Honestly, I think this points to the possibility that steriods, HGH, and the like may not help the atheletes' play nearly as much as many people, including the media, would like to think.

[Lurch]

Honestly, I think this points to the possibility that steriods, HGH, and the like may not help the atheletes' play nearly as much as many people, including the media, would like to think.

Good luck with that theory.

[DVauthrin]

 
When you are talking about federal prosecutions, "strongly doubt" means absolutely nothing. You need hard evidence.

Again, the Feds were investigating BALCO and talked to Bonds as part of that investigation. If Bonds had told the truth, as Jason Giambi allegedly did, he would not be facing jail time right now. To my knowledge, much fewer people regard Giambi as much of a jerk. Yet, the only thing that distinguishes him from Bonds in the eyes of the Feds is that Giambi told the truth and Bonds lied. That's all there is to it.

Of course they needed hard evidence on palmeiro, I just think perhaps they failed to dig deep enough to find it.    Without it however, they were justified in not prosecuting him for perjury.   

As far the Feds and Bonds, i'm sure you are right, all i'm saying is his attitude towards the press contributed heavily to him being the prime target in "Game of Shadows" and without that book, would the Feds ever have had the hard evidence needed to prove he lied in court?   

[jasonact]

Good luck with that theory.

Notice that I didn't say that it had no effect, only that its affect is overblown. A substance does not exist that allows someone to see a ball better or make better contact or locate that fastball. In other words, steroids can't help Pedro Cerrano hit the curve ball, nor will it even turn Adam Everett into Lance Berkman. Even with what people know about what it does, no one's sure exactly how much it helps. In fact, my understanding is that most players are most tempted to use the stuff in an attempt to recover faster from injury. While that's still a competitive advantage, that's not exactly all about hitting the long ball.

[jasonact]

Of course they needed hard evidence on palmeiro, I just think perhaps they failed to dig deep enough to find it.    Without it however, they were justified in not prosecuting him for perjury.   

As far the Feds and Bonds, i'm sure you are right, all i'm saying is his attitude towards the press contributed heavily to him being the prime target in "Game of Shadows" and without that book, would the Feds ever have had the hard evidence needed to prove he lied in court?   

The fact, though, is that he lied. It doesn't matter what Game of Shadows said. If he had told the truth, he would not be facing prosecution right now. see Giambi, Jason.

If you don't lie, it doesn't matter whether you're a jerk or not.

[DVauthrin]

The fact, though, is that he lied. It doesn't matter what Game of Shadows said. If he had told the truth, he would not be facing prosecution right now. see Giambi, Jason.

If you don't lie, it doesn't matter whether you're a jerk or not.

here's a side question:  would telling the truth have incriminated himself in MLB's eyes though, and does he in that case have the right not to incriminate himself.

[jasonact]

here's a side question:  would telling the truth have incriminated himself in MLB's eyes though, and does he in that case have the right not to incriminate himself.

MLB is not a government organization, so no, he has no Fifth Amendment protection from MLB.

Also, I believe his alleged use was before the substance was banned by MLB, so the offense wouldn't be punishable anyway.

[Bench]

Just to muddy the waters regarding Palmeiro... he wasn't under oath when he went before congress. Lying under oath to congress is a crime, but the "discussions" with McGwire, Schilling, Palmeiro, Sosa, et al were "informal" and thus any statements made at that time were not actionable under perjury laws, regardless of their veracity or lack thereof.

[astrox]

Amphetamines.

They have been more the norm in the MLB landscape than steriods.  The grind of a 162 season means a player is not going to have the natural stamina to play every game or as many games as possible.  MLB play requires the player to be at his best night in and night out.  It's not going to happen naturally... so players for many years now have taken greenies (amphetamines) to get "up" for a game.  Most of the time, they hide in the coffee they drink before or even during the game.

Wouldn't that show up in a urine test?

[Bench]

Wouldn't that show up in a urine test?

They didn't start testing for that stuff until last year. Now they do, and they suspend players who test positive. See Cameron, Mike.

[jasonact]

Just to muddy the waters regarding Palmeiro... he wasn't under oath when he went before congress. Lying under oath to congress is a crime, but the "discussions" with McGwire, Schilling, Palmeiro, Sosa, et al were "informal" and thus any statements made at that time were not actionable under perjury laws, regardless of their veracity or lack thereof.

Very good point, although I though I remembered seeing pictures of them taking an oath. If you're right, though, I think that makes it clear that none of them could face purjury charges, regardless of what they said.

[Craig]

Just to muddy the waters regarding Palmeiro... he wasn't under oath when he went before congress. Lying under oath to congress is a crime, but the "discussions" with McGwire, Schilling, Palmeiro, Sosa, et al were "informal" and thus any statements made at that time were not actionable under perjury laws, regardless of their veracity or lack thereof.

Lying to Congress is a crime, even if you aren't under oath. It's not perjury, but it's still a crime.

[Jacksonian]

Lying to Congress is a crime, even if you aren't under oath. It's not perjury, but it's still a crime.

Which should be distinguished from lying to get into Congress.