Author Topic: Not Randy  (Read 4918 times)

pravata

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Not Randy
« on: August 28, 2007, 11:21:22 am »
"I want to be set the record straight and be completely clear on this, because there's been some erroneous reporting," Tal Smith said. "Randy is not a candidate. [Astros chairman] Drayton [McLane] and I talked about it and we agreed that it wouldn't be appropriate." ...

Smith said the Astros will try to complete the search as quickly as possible.

"I don't think there's a precise timetable," he said. "Obviously, you'd like to start making 2008 decisions, but whether this takes through the regular season or into November or beyond we'll just have to wait and see."

In-house candidates include Ricky Bennett, Astros assistant GM and director of player development and David Gottfried, assistant GM of baseball operations. At this point the Astros are considering a variety of candidates, not necessarily just those with experience as a Major League general manager.

Smith will be key in the process and will make recommendations.

"Ultimately, it's Drayton's decision," Smith said. "I'm sure a number of us will be involved. I'll sit down and review candidates and make suggestions. I'm sure he'll get input from a number of people. It's Drayton's ultimate decision, but he's pretty good about getting input from his key people."

McLane said the GM search will follow the guidelines set by Commissioner Bud Selig. Link

Key people? Who's left?  Or is he refering to rows 113 and 212?


MusicMan

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2007, 11:22:26 am »
Best news of the last 24 hours.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

pravata

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2007, 11:24:11 am »
Best news of the last 24 hours.

One thing is, if they want anyone from a playoff team, they'll have to wait.  And then there's the no major announcement during the post season preference from The League.

HurricaneDavid

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2007, 11:24:44 am »
"Drayton [McLane] and I talked about it and we agreed that it wouldn't be appropriate."

Wouldn't be appropriate because of the family thing, or because his resume is lacking?
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pravata

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2007, 11:24:59 am »
Wouldn't be appropriate because of the family thing, or because his resume is lacking?

Yes. 

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2007, 11:25:06 am »
Best news of the last 24 hours.

Key people?  Gardner.  It's only the best news if Gardner doesn't insist on a yes ma'am GM.
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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2007, 11:25:38 am »
not necessarily just those with experience as a Major League general manager.

this is what concerns me.  you want to call drayton stupid?  wait until he hires another inexperienced GM. 

MusicMan

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2007, 11:26:13 am »
Key people?  Gardner.  It's only the best news if Gardner doesn't insist on a yes ma'am GM.

Anyone But Randy was my number 1 criterion.  "Not a yes ma'am man" is number 2.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

strosrays

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2007, 11:26:48 am »
In-house candidates include Ricky Bennett, Astros assistant GM and director of player development and David Gottfried, assistant GM of baseball operations. At this point the Astros are considering a variety of candidates, not necessarily just those with experience as a Major League general manager.


Rich Lord said they should pick Bennett, "so this team that has been accused in the past of racism and is controversial for not bringing in any African-American players will have both an African-American GM and an African-American manager."

As good a criteria for picking replacements as any, I suppose.

strosrays

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2007, 11:29:21 am »
Best news of the last 24 hours.


Read more closely:

"Ultimately, it's Drayton's decision," Smith said. . . McLane said the GM search will follow the guidelines set by Commissioner Bud Selig.

MusicMan

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2007, 11:29:50 am »
this is what concerns me.  you want to call drayton stupid?  wait until he hires another inexperienced GM. 

Billy Beane did not have GM experience.
Terry Ryan did not have GM experience.
Brian Cashman did not have GM experience.
Theo Epstein did not have GM experience.

Shall I continue?
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Limey

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2007, 11:30:28 am »

Read more closely:

"Ultimately, it's Drayton's decision," Smith said. . . McLane said the GM search will follow the guidelines set by Commissioner Bud Selig.

At least we know Selig has a strong track record against nepotism.  Eh?  Oh.
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MusicMan

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2007, 11:31:53 am »

Rich Lord said they should pick Bennett, "so this team that has been accused in the past of racism and is controversial for not bringing in any African-American players will have both an African-American GM and an African-American manager."

As good a criteria for picking replacements as any, I suppose.

Should?  No.  Not a good criterion.
Could?  Absolutely.  See my comments in the next manager thread.
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

Noe

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2007, 11:44:30 am »
Should?  No.  Not a good criterion.
Could?  Absolutely.  See my comments in the next manager thread.

Ricky Bennett is the leading candidate and it's a little more advanced than they're letting on right now.

PenceMania

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2007, 11:46:03 am »
Billy Beane did not have GM experience.
Terry Ryan did not have GM experience.
Brian Cashman did not have GM experience.
Theo Epstein did not have GM experience.

Shall I continue?
don't be an idiot.  hunter pence did not have AAA experience to speak of before MLB but he has worked out.  do you want to continue testing that policy?

MusicMan

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2007, 11:46:11 am »
Ricky Bennett is the leading candidate and it's a little more advanced than they're letting on right now.

Which leads me bacck to this:

If this is a baseball decision, then why would the leading candidate be the man currently in charge of player development?
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2007, 11:47:01 am »
don't be an idiot.  hunter pence did not have AAA experience to speak of before MLB but he has worked out.  do you want to continue testing that policy?

You should take your own advice.  And Pence in no way has "worked out" at the MLB level.   It takes _years_ to determine if a player "works out" at the MLB level.

pravata

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2007, 11:49:02 am »
don't be an idiot.  hunter pence did not have AAA experience to speak of before MLB but he has worked out.  do you want to continue testing that policy?

Have you watched Pence's at bats?  Are you aware that every base runner, even Barry Bonds, automatically advances on a fly ball to center?  Does an injury due to a lack of fundamentals penetrate your fog at all?

pravata

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2007, 11:50:31 am »
Which leads me bacck to this:

If this is a baseball decision, then why would the leading candidate be the man currently in charge of player development?

Do you mean, "If this is not a baseball decision..."?

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2007, 11:51:42 am »
Ricky Bennett is the leading candidate and it's a little more advanced than they're letting on right now.

Not much of a fresh start.
Oye. Vamos, vamos.

Noe

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2007, 11:54:04 am »
Which leads me bacck to this:

If this is a baseball decision, then why would the leading candidate be the man currently in charge of player development?

Because it's a big lie to say it was a baseball decision?

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2007, 11:57:39 am »
Have you watched Pence's at bats?  Are you aware that every base runner, even Barry Bonds, automatically advances on a fly ball to center?  Does an injury due to a lack of fundamentals penetrate your fog at all?

Not fair to only Pence, I think Lane is the only CF this season runners were not advancing.
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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2007, 11:58:22 am »
don't be an idiot.  hunter pence did not have AAA experience to speak of before MLB but he has worked out.  do you want to continue testing that policy?

I don't recall MM having a track record of being an idiot. That has not yet been established for all posters here, however.

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2007, 11:59:15 am »
Because it's a big lie to say it was a baseball decision?

"Stagnation", huh Drayton?
You may ask yourself, "How do I work this?"

MusicMan

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2007, 12:00:23 pm »
don't be an idiot.  hunter pence did not have AAA experience to speak of before MLB but he has worked out.  do you want to continue testing that policy?

So it's your position that inexperienced GM's only occasionally work out?

Let's look at the "Sporting News Executive of the Year" back to 98:

1998 Gerry Hunsicker - no prior GM experience
1999 Jim Bowden - no prior GM experience
2000 Walt Jocketty -  no prior GM experience
2001 Pat Gillick -  prior experience (Blue Jays)
2002 Terry Ryan - no prior GM experience
2003 Brian Sabean - no prior GM experience
2004 Walt Jocketty - see above
2005 Mark Shapiro - no prior GM experience
2006 Terry Ryan - see above
 
Getting the picture yet?
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

MusicMan

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2007, 12:00:45 pm »
Because it's a big lie to say it was a baseball decision?

*DING, DING!*
I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing AstroTurf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, torture of Bud Selig.

pravata

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2007, 12:01:16 pm »
Not fair to only Pence, I think Lane is the only CF this season runners were not advancing.

Right, Burke played 20 games in center to start the season.  Teams got the scouting report on him real quick too.  I don't know that fair has anything to do with it. 

strosrays

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2007, 12:02:11 pm »
At least we know Selig has a strong track record against nepotism.  Eh?  Oh.

I was thinking about the McLane-Selig bi-polar similarities this morning.

1.) Bud Selig was a hero in Milwaukee initially, for buying the floundering Seattle Pilots franchise and moving it to Milwaukee just weeks before the 1970 season.  This restored major league baseball (more or less) to a city that had seen the beloved Braves run away to Atlanta only a few years before.
1a.)  Drayton McLane was a hero initially for buying the Astros from an absentee owner who had clearly lost interest in the franchise, had rented the home field out to the Republicans for a month the previous season so that the team was forced to go on a month-long road trip in August, and who had even intimated he might move the Astros elsewhere.  Upon assuming control, McLane said he would never move the team, and immediately pushed for the FA signings of local boys Doug Drabek and Greg Swindell, his statement and both moves making long suffering Houston baseball fans ecstatic.

2.) After several false steps initially, Selig eventually put in place a top-notch organization, led by well-respected GM Rollie Hemond.  The team combined a series of shrewd trades and FA signings with good young players coming up from their farm system, and made it to the World Series for the first time in their history in 1982, the 13th year after Selig bought them.
2a.) After several false steps initially, McLane eventually put in place a top-notch organization, led by up-and-coming GM Gerry Hunsicker.  The team combined a series of shrewd trades and FA signings with good young players coming up from their farm system, and made it to the World Series for the first time in their history in 2005, the 13th year after McLane bought them.

3.) Immediately after their great 1982 season, the Brewers went into steep decline, as the meddlesome and now penurious Selig starved the team of cash, and the organization fell apart.  Brewers fans suffered through very meiocre teams for the next 20+ years, before the most recent regime began the moves that brought the team finally back to respectability.*
3a.) Immediately after their great 2005 season, the Astros went into steep decline, as the meddlesome and now penurious McLane starved the team of cash, and the organization fell began to fall apart.

*The only season in the interim in which the Brewers were a contender (1992), the team was managed by. . . Phil Garner.

I could have gone on, but I believe at that point it was I who needed Altoids.

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2007, 12:21:56 pm »

"Ultimately, it's Drayton's decision," Smith said.

And that's just it, isn't it? Drayton will either find a puppet he can control or a rebel he'll hope to control, both of which he'll do with his head in the clouds... or up his own ass.

It was in poor taste for the game attendees to boo Purpura during the Bagwell ceremony on Sunday (a friend of mine who was there with her 9-year-old son said the boy was just horrified that people would disrespect Baggy like that on his special day), but it was just awful for Drayton to fire Purpura and Garner the next day. The team ain't going anywhere this season. Should've let them finish things out until fall and quietly not invited them back for next year, but that ain't your style. You just had to appease the boo-ers.

This is a bit late, Uncle Drayton, for a "fresh start," and it's a bad excuse to "get to know" Cecil Cooper. You're either kidding yourself, or you're setting up Coop to fail so you can fire him during the off-season and bring in your hand-pickin's. Hell, nobody knows why you do what you do, not even you- you just know you're the boss, and that's what counts, right?
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MusicMan

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2007, 12:22:45 pm »
It was in poor taste for the game attendees to boo Purpura during the Bagwell ceremony on Sunday (a friend of mine who was there with her 9-year-old son said the boy was just horrified that people would disrespect Baggy like that on his special day),

Your friend's son has a good head on his shoulders.
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cougar

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2007, 08:55:24 pm »
Ricky Bennett is the leading candidate and it's a little more advanced than they're letting on right now.

I guess I don't have a problem with Bennett IF AND ONLY IF he's the right man for the job.  If they elevate him and keep Cecil just so Drayton (or Gardner, or whoever) can go around crowing about how progressive the organization is I'm going to be pissed off to no end.  Political Correctness should not be used as a substitute for front office acumen.

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2007, 09:06:37 pm »
don't be an idiot.  hunter pence did not have AAA experience to speak of before MLB but he has worked out.  do you want to continue testing that policy?

Pencemania did not have OWA experience before about 24 hours ago.
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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2007, 10:04:12 pm »
I guess I don't have a problem with Bennett IF AND ONLY IF he's the right man for the job.  If they elevate him and keep Cecil just so Drayton (or Gardner, or whoever) can go around crowing about how progressive the organization is I'm going to be pissed off to no end.  Political Correctness should not be used as a substitute for front office acumen.

Bennett came from the Milwaukee organization that at one time was owned by Bud Selig.  The same man who is now the MLB commissioner and has set the guidelines for interviewing both managers and general managers for the league.  That includes minority interviews.  That all said, Bennett is a good candidate regardless and my own opinion is that Bennett is use to McLane and vice versa, so it's a much better fit than anyone thinks.  Very little breakin time needed.  Certainly is a reason above the minority hiring guidelines, which is a an added benefit but not the primary one.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 10:08:56 pm by Noe in Austin »

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2007, 10:56:20 pm »
Bennett came from the Milwaukee organization that at one time was owned by Bud Selig.  The same man who is now the MLB commissioner and has set the guidelines for interviewing both managers and general managers for the league.  That includes minority interviews.  That all said, Bennett is a good candidate regardless and my own opinion is that Bennett is use to McLane and vice versa, so it's a much better fit than anyone thinks.  Very little breakin time needed.  Certainly is a reason above the minority hiring guidelines, which is a an added benefit but not the primary one.

It's hard not to root for Cecil to keep/earn the job. Seems like a great guy, good BB guy and deserves a chance. But I second the opinion that it seems hypocritical to say that the organization has stagnated and then promote underlings to both positions. And Drayton isn't going to be able to win completely by putting two minorities into the positions. There will be those that accuse him of pandering to the people playing the race card. But if he's gonna do this right, he will hire the GM and let the GM hire the mgr. I get absolutely no impression it's going to work that way. HE wants to see what Cecil can lead this team for 31 games. HE is going to take the first big decision out of the hands of the new GM. That right there will discourage most experienced GM candidates, I would think.

pravata

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2007, 10:59:01 pm »
It's hard not to root for Cecil to keep/earn the job. Seems like a great guy, good BB guy and deserves a chance. But I second the opinion that it seems hypocritical to say that the organization has stagnated and then promote underlings to both positions. And Drayton isn't going to be able to win completely by putting two minorities into the positions. There will be those that accuse him of pandering to the people playing the race card. But if he's gonna do this right, he will hire the GM and let the GM hire the mgr. I get absolutely no impression it's going to work that way. HE wants to see what Cecil can lead this team for 31 games. HE is going to take the first big decision out of the hands of the new GM. That right there will discourage most experienced GM candidates, I would think.

This is a good point.  Smith has said he hopes to hire a GM before the season is over.  Mclane says he hopes to evaluate Cooper in the remaining games.  These boys are not on the same page.

Noe

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2007, 11:03:59 pm »
It's hard not to root for Cecil to keep/earn the job. Seems like a great guy, good BB guy and deserves a chance. But I second the opinion that it seems hypocritical to say that the organization has stagnated and then promote underlings to both positions. And Drayton isn't going to be able to win completely by putting two minorities into the positions. There will be those that accuse him of pandering to the people playing the race card. But if he's gonna do this right, he will hire the GM and let the GM hire the mgr. I get absolutely no impression it's going to work that way. HE wants to see what Cecil can lead this team for 31 games. HE is going to take the first big decision out of the hands of the new GM. That right there will discourage most experienced GM candidates, I would think.

Eggszactly correct.  Hence why Bennett has a good chance of just being promoted.  He is the right man to take over with Cooper as the manager.  Any other GM will want to bring his man on-board and I just don't see that happening.

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Re: Not Randy
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2007, 11:02:27 am »
Eggszactly correct.  Hence why Bennett has a good chance of just being promoted.  He is the right man to take over with Cooper as the manager.  Any other GM will want to bring his man on-board and I just don't see that happening.
I can see your point, but at the same time it's fairly common in baseball for a new GM to come on board when there's already a manager in place, no? Of course, that can sometimes lead to the incumbent manager being fired after a year or so (guys like Grady Little, Jim Tracy come to mind). I would think the most important thing for a new GM would be to have autonomy to make major roster changes.

edit: and be able to hire new assistant GM, farm system guys, etc.
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