Author Topic: Coco Crisp?  (Read 8339 times)

Reuben

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Coco Crisp?
« on: July 15, 2007, 01:32:19 am »
According to CHicago Tribune,
Quote
With Jacoby Ellsbury in the wings, the Red Sox are considering moving Coco Crisp to strengthen their pitching staff. They would like to add a starter, along with a right-handed setup man. They have scouts following Brad Lidge and Houston's other relievers, especially Dan Wheeler and Chad Qualls. ... The Tigers also are studying Houston's relievers
The Link

Crisp is 27, started off hot last year then hurt his finger and never really got going after he came off the DL. Looked lost at the plate the first two months this year but in the last month has raised his AVG from .224 to .265. From what I've seen and heard he plays a great CF; average arm but great range and is not afraid to crash into the wall. He's signed for $3.5 million this year, $4.75 million next year and $5.75 million in 2009, with an $8 million team option for 2010. Of course, if you don't care about defense or K's, the Sox also have Wily Mo Pena.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2007, 10:38:36 am »
According to CHicago Tribune,The Link

Crisp is 27, started off hot last year then hurt his finger and never really got going after he came off the DL. Looked lost at the plate the first two months this year but in the last month has raised his AVG from .224 to .265. From what I've seen and heard he plays a great CF; average arm but great range and is not afraid to crash into the wall. He's signed for $3.5 million this year, $4.75 million next year and $5.75 million in 2009, with an $8 million team option for 2010. Of course, if you don't care about defense or K's, the Sox also have Wily Mo Pena.

I've thought about this for a while when I heard he was on the market and the Sox were looking to dangle him for help in the bully. I love this deal for Qualls or Wheeler, not so much for Lidge.

That would make our OF defense pretty good. Makes Luke Scott the odd man out I imagine.



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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2007, 10:44:30 am »
I still believe that a deal with the Tigers is a fit, with Qualls and Scott being the main trading fodder.  I don't believe Houston will trade Lidge and Wheeler (if they can avoid it).  It all depends on what is offered back.

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2007, 10:45:35 am »
According to CHicago Tribune,The Link

Crisp is 27, started off hot last year then hurt his finger and never really got going after he came off the DL. Looked lost at the plate the first two months this year but in the last month has raised his AVG from .224 to .265. From what I've seen and heard he plays a great CF; average arm but great range and is not afraid to crash into the wall. He's signed for $3.5 million this year, $4.75 million next year and $5.75 million in 2009, with an $8 million team option for 2010. Of course, if you don't care about defense or K's, the Sox also have Wily Mo Pena.

It's also hinted here.  Purp says he doesn't want to deal Lidge.  Though I don't think Crisp is worth him.  I'd rather keep Qualls.  Lee, Crisp, Pence.  Drayton's already said he's disappointed in Scott's play.

If the first two games out of the ASB are a harbinger of things to come Purp will have a boatload of offers to consider come July 31.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2007, 11:19:00 am »
It's also hinted here.  Purp says he doesn't want to deal Lidge.  Though I don't think Crisp is worth him.  I'd rather keep Qualls.  Lee, Crisp, Pence.  Drayton's already said he's disappointed in Scott's play.

If the first two games out of the ASB are a harbinger of things to come Purp will have a boatload of offers to consider come July 31.

i'd rather keep Wheeler. he is steadier and more consistent than Qualls, who is either great or terrible in each appearance. Qualls has better pure stuff, and i think he has more trade value than Wheeler.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2007, 11:40:21 am »
i'd rather keep Wheeler. he is steadier and more consistent than Qualls, who is either great or terrible in each appearance. Qualls has better pure stuff, and i think he has more trade value than Wheeler.

My hope was that Wheeler would be enough to fetch Crisp.  But, Qualls stuff is why I'd rather keep him.  I suppose I have faith that he'll be more consistent in the not too distant future.

Personally though, if the Astros are going to deal, I'd rather they picked up a quality young 3b.  Those are rarer today than a good CF, and the Astros have next to nothing at 3b in the minors at the moment.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2007, 11:50:13 am »
My hope was that Wheeler would be enough to fetch Crisp.  But, Qualls stuff is why I'd rather keep him.  I suppose I have faith that he'll be more consistent in the not too distant future.

Personally though, if the Astros are going to deal, I'd rather they picked up a quality young 3b.  Those are rarer today than a good CF, and the Astros have next to nothing at 3b in the minors at the moment.

Qualls has been disappointing me since AA at RR. imo, because of his raw stuff, he is more likely to get a good player back. i'm not saying Qualls for Crisp.

maybe no 3B prospects, but Cody Ransom can play.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2007, 11:57:35 am »
My hope was that Wheeler would be enough to fetch Crisp.  But, Qualls stuff is why I'd rather keep him.  I suppose I have faith that he'll be more consistent in the not too distant future.

Personally though, if the Astros are going to deal, I'd rather they picked up a quality young 3b.  Those are rarer today than a good CF, and the Astros have next to nothing at 3b in the minors at the moment.

I think what we're seeing from Qualls now is what we should expect from him.

Qualls' ERA has been rising steadily over his three full seasons in Houston:  from 3.28 in '05 to 3.76 in '06 and 4.03 this year.
But also consider his k/BB rate over those same three seasons, which has improved this year from last as he's given up less strikeouts and walks overall:  2.6, 2.0 2.6
And his hits given up:  73 in 80 innings, 76 in 89 innings, 49 in 45 innings

So basically, his ERA has steadily approached 4 while his peripheral statistics have remained largely constant.  This suggests that Qualls is turning into the type of pitcher who will throw somewhere around 80-90 innings with an ERA in the high 3's/low4's every season-- basically a 7th inning guy.

Considering that he's going to turn 29 this year, it doesn't seem likely that he'll somehow amp it up in the next couple of years and become a dominant set-up man or closer, but his ability to pitch multiple innings, ability to pitch in a variety of situations, and his injury-free history doesn't suggest a likely fall either.  It seems, actually, that Qualls is shaping up to have the career of a player who will some day be labeled a veteran workhorse-- somewhere between a todd jones and a rick white-- somebody who will be the 7th inning guy, maybe even closer for a mediocre team, for a half-dozen teams before the end of a career that lasts into his late 30's

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2007, 12:13:20 pm »
Quote
I still believe that a deal with the Tigers is a fit, with Qualls and Scott being the main trading fodder.  I don't believe Houston will trade Lidge and Wheeler (if they can avoid it).  It all depends on what is offered back.

Who do you think we could snatch from the Tiggers? I'd be enthused if we could get a player like Granderson, since we're talking CF, but I would imagine him to fetch a very high price.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2007, 12:18:12 pm »
i'd rather keep Wheeler. he is steadier and more consistent than Qualls, who is either great or terrible in each appearance. Qualls has better pure stuff, and i think he has more trade value than Wheeler.

Absolutely dead spot on!  Plus I still reserve hope for Albers being the 7th inning guy to replace Qualls given a certain amount of time.  Same makeup and pure stuff.  Either great or terrible is what Albers can give the team right now as well.

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2007, 12:23:29 pm »
Who do you think we could snatch from the Tiggers? I'd be enthused if we could get a player like Granderson, since we're talking CF, but I would imagine him to fetch a very high price.

I don't know right now.  I just know that 1) the Tigers wanted Scott this offseason and 2) they need relievers to make them a odds on favorite to take the AL and possibly the WS.  If they value both, they may be inclined to send someone back to the Astros that will be very good or send a bunch of minor leaguers who are at least fringe prospects that can pan out in the near future.

I am, however, intrigued by the Coco Crisp talks.  Granderson would probably cost more than Crisp but I'm not convinced the Tigers are willing to move Granderson now, even with Maybin the heir apparent in the near future.  Maybin is said to be the total package in terms of tools, the next Ken Griffey Jr. in some scouts eyes.

That is saying a lot so maybe Ganderson can be moved.  It all depends how well Purpura can angle them into a deal if they're willing to talk seriously.  Some of this may also be the Astros floating some names out there to create the market for Lidge, Wheeler and especially Qualls.  If more than one teams wants one of those guys, you have leverage.

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2007, 12:37:40 pm »
I don't know right now.  I just know that 1) the Tigers wanted Scott this offseason and 2) they need relievers to make them a odds on favorite to take the AL and possibly the WS.  If they value both, they may be inclined to send someone back to the Astros that will be very good or send a bunch of minor leaguers who are at least fringe prospects that can pan out in the near future.

I am, however, intrigued by the Coco Crisp talks.  Granderson would probably cost more than Crisp but I'm not convinced the Tigers are willing to move Granderson now, even with Maybin the heir apparent in the near future.  Maybin is said to be the total package in terms of tools, the next Ken Griffey Jr. in some scouts eyes.

That is saying a lot so maybe Ganderson can be moved.  It all depends how well Purpura can angle them into a deal if they're willing to talk seriously.  Some of this may also be the Astros floating some names out there to create the market for Lidge, Wheeler and especially Qualls.  If more than one teams wants one of those guys, you have leverage.
Yeah, I think Purp will definitely have some leverage in a couple weeks. The Red Sox don't seem to be as desperate for bullpen help as Papelbon has been terrific closing games and the rest of their bully has been very good from long to short. But I could see them going after Qualls for sure with an eye toward building a "super-bullpen" and really go for it this year. Crisp obviously would be a bit risky to trade for because of his sub-par 2006/ beginning of 2007, but before that he was improving every year and looking like a solid 40 doubles, 15 HR, 25 SB, .300 switch-hitter with very good defense. I don't know that much about Granderson but it seems less likely (as you said) that the Tigers would trade him mid-season.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2007, 12:43:57 pm »
Qualls has been disappointing me since AA at RR. imo, because of his raw stuff, he is more likely to get a good player back. i'm not saying Qualls for Crisp.

maybe no 3B prospects, but Cody Ransom can play.
I've never seen Ransom play, but was looking at his numbers the other day and they're pretty impressive- good pop, speed, gets on base, and I believe you and Mark have said he can play SS adequately too. I wonder what the Astros see him as. Do you think he'd make a decent #6 hitter?
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2007, 12:44:44 pm »
Yeah, I think Purp will definitely have some leverage in a couple weeks. The Red Sox don't seem to be as desperate for bullpen help as Papelbon has been terrific closing games and the rest of their bully has been very good from long to short. But I could see them going after Qualls for sure with an eye toward building a "super-bullpen" and really go for it this year. Crisp obviously would be a bit risky to trade for because of his sub-par 2006/ beginning of 2007, but before that he was improving every year and looking like a solid 40 doubles, 15 HR, 25 SB, .300 switch-hitter with very good defense. I don't know that much about Granderson but it seems less likely (as you said) that the Tigers would trade him mid-season.

Also, the RedSox may worry about Detroit bettering themselves with a reliever like Qualls and definitely with a guy like Lidge being talked about.  If nothing else, they may react just because it's Detroit and this is who will be their biggest challenge in the playoffs.  I remember when Cleveland had a bunch of all-stars in their lineup and the Yankees used to worry every trading deadline about rumored deals involving Cleveland.  They would get involved to try to block deals that Cleveland was in on.

In essence, it is how Houston wound up with Randy Johnson and not the Indians.

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2007, 12:46:55 pm »
I've never seen Ransom play, but was looking at his numbers the other day and they're pretty impressive- good pop, speed, gets on base, and I believe you and Mark have said he can play SS adequately too. I wonder what the Astros see him as. Do you think he'd make a decent #6 hitter?

He is a little bigger than the skinny kid who played for the Giants.  He's very muscular and tall.  Still has great reaction, so his quickness works well at third.  He can turn on an inside pitch well, so he is a fit for Minute Maid park.  He waits on the ball well though, so he isn't a strickly pull hitter.

I like this kid, he plays hard and is very good in my humble opinion.

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2007, 07:53:37 am »
I'm going to try and catch a RR game on TV so I can get a look at Ransom.  I read his praises around here before but didn't realize that he might actually be MLB material.  What are the chances that the Stros hand over the full time job to Lamb in '08?  I'm hoping Gar lets him audition (defensively) at the hot corner for the rest of the season.

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2007, 10:36:52 am »
I'm going to try and catch a RR game on TV so I can get a look at Ransom.  I read his praises around here before but didn't realize that he might actually be MLB material.  What are the chances that the Stros hand over the full time job to Lamb in '08?  I'm hoping Gar lets him audition (defensively) at the hot corner for the rest of the season.

he has played in the MLB! he was the Giants' #1 pick, i think, and was their starting SS. he is not some kid prospect.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2007, 10:40:04 am »
he has played in the MLB! he was the Giants' #1 pick, i think, and was their starting SS. he is not some kid prospect.

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2007, 10:41:05 am »
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2007, 10:41:11 am »
he has played in the MLB! he was the Giants' #1 pick, i think, and was their starting SS. he is not some kid prospect.

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2007, 10:48:04 am »
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2007, 10:51:15 am »
Back to this Coco Crisp stuff, he is a very good outfielder with the glove, but his arm is far from average. Think Kenny Lofton/weeny type.

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2007, 10:53:41 am »
Crisp sure fills a lot of needs - lead off man and centerfielder. He's a switch hitter who can steal bases and has a little pop. His OBP is a low. I wonder what kind of club house guy he is.
I would be very interested at the right price.

I can't imagine why anybody (including the Astros) would want Scott.

I'm all for giving Ransom a shot. The Astros have nothing to lose. When Everrett comes back, I would like to see Ensberg and Burke sent down or DFAed (if they can't be traded) - bring Ransom up and let him play everyday at second or third. 
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2007, 10:53:49 am »
Back to this Coco Crisp stuff, he is a very good outfielder with the glove, but his arm is far from average. Think Kenny Lofton/weeny type.



Can he hit the cut-off man?
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2007, 10:56:03 am »
Can he hit the cut-off man?

Burke has a stronger outfield arm.

I can envision a three-tiered relay from Tal's Hill. Get Garner on the phone.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2007, 10:57:31 am »
Crisp sure fills a lot of needs - lead off man and centerfielder. He's a switch hitter who can steal bases and has a little pop. His OBP is a low. I wonder what kind of club house guy he is.
I would be very interested at the right price.

I can't imagine why anybody (including the Astros) would want Scott.

I'm all for giving Ransom a shot. The Astros have nothing to lose. When Everrett comes back, I would like to see Ensberg and Burke sent down or DFAed (if they can't be traded) - bring Ransom up and let him play everyday at second or third. 

because Scott can play

are you not listening? Ransom does not play 2B. maybe he can, but he plays 3B now and was a SS.

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2007, 11:02:06 am »
Crisp sure fills a lot of needs - lead off man and centerfielder. ... I can't imagine why anybody (including the Astros) would want Scott.

Luke Scott, career: .264/.357/.492
Coco Crisp, career: .282/.328/.413

Maybe the better question is, "Why would anybody want Crisp?"
« Last Edit: July 16, 2007, 11:04:15 am by MusicMan »
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2007, 11:03:32 am »
Luke Scott, career: .264/.357/.492
Coco Crisp, career: .82/.328/.413

Maybe the better question is, "Why would anybody want Crisp?"

Who would not want a player hitting .82??  Or did you mean something different?
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2007, 11:04:41 am »
Who would not want a player hitting .82?? 

Well, the Sox do keep running Lugo out there every day.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #29 on: July 16, 2007, 11:06:38 am »
Well, the Sox do keep running Lugo out there every day.

You mean the guy who "couldn't be worse than" Adam Everett?

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #30 on: July 16, 2007, 11:09:24 am »
Well, the Sox do keep running Lugo out there every day.

Isn't .82 82%??  At least that is the way I remember moving decimal points to get percentages in grade school.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2007, 11:10:58 am »
Luke Scott, career: .264/.357/.492
Coco Crisp, career: .282/.328/.413

Maybe the better question is, "Why would anybody want Crisp?"

Just another example of misleading stats.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2007, 11:12:10 am »
Just another example of misleading stats.

any stat that hurts an argument is either "misleading" or "overrated."
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2007, 11:12:18 am »
Just another example of misreading stats.

FIFY.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2007, 11:17:52 am »
any stat that hurts an argument is either "misleading" or "overrated."

For the disingenous.

Scott's are particularly messy considering his short mlb time.  Drayton's been disappointed in him, but I'd like to see him stay at the very least as the #4 outfielder.

Crisp I know less about.  He got better offensively in his 4 years in Cleveland then slid back in Boston.  Was he injured last year?  This year?  Just sucked?  Other?
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #35 on: July 16, 2007, 12:15:04 pm »
For the disingenous.


BP and many other, but not all, stat geeks.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #36 on: July 16, 2007, 01:03:42 pm »
For the disingenous.

Scott's are particularly messy considering his short mlb time.  Drayton's been disappointed in him, but I'd like to see him stay at the very least as the #4 outfielder.

Crisp I know less about.  He got better offensively in his 4 years in Cleveland then slid back in Boston.  Was he injured last year?  This year?  Just sucked?  Other?

I think he was injured quite a bit last season, broken thumb or something like that. He started off slowly this season, but has been coming on quite a bit the last month and half or so.
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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #37 on: July 16, 2007, 01:14:15 pm »
BP and many other, but not all, stat geeks.

As you were saying...

Joe Sheehan of BP wrote:
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Craig Biggio, bench. Bench, Craig Biggio. Who could have seen this coming? With his 3,000th hit secured, Biggio is going to play less so that Chris Burke can play more, except not so much at home. Burke hasn’t torn things up as a major leaguer, but then again, he’s been playing out of position, and sporadically, for the last three seasons as the Astros allowed Biggio to pursue an individual record.

The note that Biggio will play more at home than on the road just adds to the silliness. Why don’t the Astros just hand out a sign that says, “We’re more about one player than about the team?” Biggio is popular and short and has the dirty helmet and the right…well, he looks like baseball…so no one really comes down on the Astros too hard for this. But think about how this team would look if instead of trading Willy Taveras and change for one year of Jason Jennings, they’d instead kept Taveras, let Burke play second base, put Hunter Pence in right field, and leave Biggio outside? Loosely speaking, that means Taveras gets Luke Scott’s playing time, Burke gets Biggio’s, and Jason Hirsh gets Jennings’ innings.

Burke is out-hitting Biggio by ten points of EqA, and playing a league-average second when he gets time there (versus Biggio’s execrable glovework). Willy Taveras is hitting about the same as Scott, but playing his usual excellent defense in center. Jennings and Hirsh have been worth about the same value—22 PRAR for the latter versus 19—with Hirsh doing that in 40 more innings.

Maybe the difference isn’t that great, although given the Astros’ problems preventing runs this season, I have to think the defensive upgrades in center field and at second base would have made a significant difference in their record. If they cared, that is, and that’s the shame: the Astros, as a franchise, blew off their record for a year so one guy could add to his stats. Benching Biggio at this stage just puts that into even clearer relief.
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JimR

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2007, 01:20:14 pm »
As you were saying...

Joe Sheehan of BP wrote:

Biggio is their rant du jour. it will be featured in the 2008 annual. for years, it was Viz and Ausmus. before that, it was Bagwell's contract.

in addition, they create stats and berate clubs when their players do not do well in them.
Often wrong, but never in doubt.

mihoba

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2007, 01:35:22 pm »
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the Astros, as a franchise, blew off their record for a year so one guy could add to his stats.

How can this asshat hold a writing job? The team had to trade Willy for an arm after losing the Drama Queens, and Burke had a chance to be a regular... but he choked, which is the main reason Pence is on the team right now.

 OPS

Scott .764
Biggio .689

Taveras .762
Burke .679

Almost identical offensively.

As if any other team would bench a fan-favorite future hall-of-famer just short of a career milestone to get at bats for a lesser, younger player.
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jaklewein

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2007, 01:46:18 pm »
How can this asshat hold a writing job? The team had to trade Willy for an arm after losing the Drama Queens, and Burke had a chance to be a regular... but he choked, which is the main reason Pence is on the team right now.

 OPS

Scott .764
Biggio .689

Taveras .762
Burke .679

Almost identical offensively.

As if any other team would bench a fan-favorite future hall-of-famer just short of a career milestone to get at bats for a lesser, younger player.


The part that really gets me is the man's take on the home/away situation:  OPS home (.801) vs. away (.554)

Hmmmm, starting him more at home seems logical enough to me.

stubbyc

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2007, 02:33:38 pm »
As you were saying...

Joe Sheehan of BP wrote:

Hindsight is 20/20. Most of the saber types thought the Astros should have benched Taveras well before they traded him probably including Sheehan. I'm not sure how many people (Saber or not) thought Taveras would have the offensive year he's having or Scott would be as mediocre as he has been.

kevinG

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2007, 06:19:06 pm »
As someone who's got a soft spot for stats from time to time, I'm appalled by that little disaster of sports writing. Taveras made a big leap in terms of offense this year, one that most statgeeks would never have forseen. While I didn't like the trade either (thought Hirsh was a better prospect than what they dealt him for), Taveras' improvement has made the deal look horrible.

Additionally, how much of Willy's stats have been padded by Coors? He's hitting 30 points higher at home and slugging 90 points higher.

There's just waaay too much wrong with all of that writing to really pinpoint one thing coherently, so this has been all over the place.
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Arky Vaughan

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2007, 07:43:20 pm »
Hindsight is 20/20. Most of the saber types thought the Astros should have benched Taveras well before they traded him probably including Sheehan. I'm not sure how many people (Saber or not) thought Taveras would have the offensive year he's having or Scott would be as mediocre as he has been.

Indeed, Taveras is the kind of player that the Baseball Prospectus types usually like to grind their axe on, a speedy player who gets inserted at the top of the line-up despite a middling or worse OBP. But Jim is dead on that Biggio has become the complaint-of-the-month, just like Ausmus or Bagwell's contract used to be. First they flogged the Astros for playing Biggio. Now they're flogging the Astros for benching Biggio.

Frankly, I don't think anybody at Baseball Prospectus really gives a damn about the Houston Astros or their fans. So if the fans wanted to see Biggio get his 3,000 hits, and were willing to pay admission to the ballpark to witness it, what business is it of theirs? It's a form of freaking entertainment, and seeing Biggio reach a milestone that no other player in franchise history has approached was a lot more entertaining than seeing the team still fall short of playoffs even with Chris Burke playing full-time at second base.

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2007, 08:46:52 pm »

an oft-used, almost cinematically cliched insult of curmudgeonly sports journalists, owners, gamblers, fans or whoever by jocks or ex-jocks is the old "you're the type who was the last picked on the playground..." jealousy/bitterness routine.  while most of the time this insult is at best presumptuous and at worst a form of oafish adult bullying, it certainly seems to sometimes apply to many of the writers at baseball prospectus.  they have this bitter, defensive attitude that they have somehow found the magical formula to manage a game and build a team better than the professionals who are paid to do it.  this magical formula is faceless, harsh, and uncompromising, and its champions appear to have a strong disdain for those who govern based on things they've learned through on-field experience.

this article:  http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5941 contains passages that are as mean-spirited as a mere baseball writer has any right being:
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I also come back to a point that, while seemingly arrogant and certainly unpopular, is an ongoing theme in the work of informed outsiders: the skill set involved in being a great baseball player is not related to the skill set involved in evaluating baseball players. There is no question that as great as the 61 living Hall of Famers were at their jobs, those are not the 61 people most qualified for determining whether Dick Allen belongs in the room with them.

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2007, 09:25:06 pm »
As you were saying...

Joe Sheehan of BP wrote:
That article is a crock of shit, and not really worth saying anything more about, IMO.
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Reuben

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Re: Coco Crisp?
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2007, 09:36:56 pm »
For the disingenous.

Scott's are particularly messy considering his short mlb time.  Drayton's been disappointed in him, but I'd like to see him stay at the very least as the #4 outfielder.

Crisp I know less about.  He got better offensively in his 4 years in Cleveland then slid back in Boston.  Was he injured last year?  This year?  Just sucked?  Other?
Injured last year- fractured or broken finger that he played through most of the year, then had it operated on late in the year, I believe. Nothing major this year, see my original post.

Mihoba- I haven't seen that much of Crisp's arm, but I can tell you it is certainly better than Johnny Damon. That's a noodle arm. Also, from everything I've seen or read, he is a great "clubhouse guy." He plays with a lot of enthusiasm. I don't mean to sound like the guy's agent or anything, but having lived in Boston through mid-2006 I'm just trying to tell you what I know/think.
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