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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: Alkie on November 19, 2006, 05:21:32 pm
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So.........why hasn't Lee signed with the LiteRanch Astros yet?
I'm not blaming the Astros brass, mind you; I'm thinking Lee doesn't really care so much about salad dressing.
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So.........why hasn't Lee signed with the LiteRanch Astros yet?
I'm not blaming the Astros brass, mind you; I'm thinking Lee doesn't really care so much about salad dressing.
Well, if Soriano just signed for 136 mil, what do you think the going price for Lee is going to be? I am guessing around 100-110 for 7-8 years. Is he worth Beltran money?
This is getting stupid. I am starting to think we (on the offensive side) should just go after Alou, Huff and maybe trade for Dunn. Then hope for a more reasonable off season next year.
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Alou apparently has signed with the steM. Or will soon.
I'm down with Huff and trade-for-Dunn, but the Reds will ask too much for him.
ETA: Anyone who signs Carlos Lee for 7 or 8 years is a fucking moron and should be fired and banned from the sport immediately.
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ETA: Anyone who signs Carlos Lee for 7 or 8 years is a fucking moron and should be fired and banned from the sport immediately.
You know somebody will now...This is a very bad day for Purp. Lets just hope he and Mclane dont do something stupid.
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That's the thing. They won't.
As I figured...we wouldn't get Lee or Soriano, because either deal would be "beyond stupid."
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You know its getting silly when you dont hear anything from the Yanks. Even they have a limit for players like Soriano and Lee.
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Contrary to talk-radio belief, it doesn't take that much skill to throw a boatload of money at the guys everyone knows are getting triple-digit contracts. The skill is in sorting through the mid-level guys and picking out the bargains.
Re-signing Huff and bringing in Williams for reasonable contracts would be better value dollar-for-dollar than signing Lee for something close to what Soriano will be making.
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ETA: Anyone who signs Carlos Lee for 7 or 8 years is a fucking moron and should be fired and banned from the sport immediately.
You know somebody will now...This is a very bad day for Purp. Lets just hope he and Mclane dont do something stupid.
Cubs sign Soriano, Rangers sign Catalanotto, Angels sign Speier, Mets close to deal with Alou, all type A FAs. Obviously losing a 1st round choice means crap to these teams. Also, so much for GMs yammering about the "over-inflated free-agent market".
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Cubs sign Soriano, Rangers sign Catalanotto, Angels sign Speier, Mets close to deal with Alou, all type A FAs. Obviously losing a 1st round choice means crap to these teams.
Don't give a shit because (A) if you're the Angels or Mets, that pick comes very late in the 1st round so it's not as valuable, (B) if you're the Cubs, you're gonna lose a 2nd-rounder instead (as noted by Jacksonian previously) because of having a 1st-rounder that lies in the top 15 picks, or (C) if you're the Rangers, you're gonna have draft picks out the wazoo anyway as the result of losing a bunch of your own free agents.
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Cubs sign Soriano, Rangers sign Catalanotto, Angels sign Speier, Mets close to deal with Alou, all type A FAs. Obviously losing a 1st round choice means crap to these teams.
Don't give a shit because (A) if you're the Angels or Mets, that pick comes very late in the 1st round so it's not as valuable, (B) if you're the Cubs, you're gonna lose a 2nd-rounder instead (as noted by Jacksonian previously) because of having a 1st-rounder that lies in the top 15 picks, or (C) if you're the Rangers, you're gonna have draft picks out the wazoo anyway as the result of losing a bunch of your own free agents.
and don't forget (D) the low percentage of 1st rounders who turn out to be MLBers anyways and (E) the crazy ass signing bonuses those 1st rounders are asking for these days.
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Contrary to talk-radio belief, it doesn't take that much skill to throw a boatload of money at the guys everyone knows are getting triple-digit contracts. The skill is in sorting through the mid-level guys and picking out the bargains.
Re-signing Huff and bringing in Williams for reasonable contracts would be better value dollar-for-dollar than signing Lee for something close to what Soriano will be making.
I agree completely however the key is to get the pick of the "reasonable" guys and not get stuck with fucking Preston Wilson. Pupura will hopefully be agressive in that regard this year if indeed Lee is priced out of the sane market.
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fucking Preston Wilson would have helped down the stretch, and he now has a new WS ring. you'd better hope we do not get stuck with fucking Jason Lane.
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fucking Preston Wilson would have helped down the stretch, and he now has a new WS ring. you'd better hope we do not get stuck with fucking Jason Lane.
I do hope for such. Congrats to Preston on his ring but I am guessing neither the Stros or Cards are planning on getting stuck with him this year.
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fucking Preston Wilson would have helped down the stretch, and he now has a new WS ring. you'd better hope we do not get stuck with fucking Jason Lane.
Yep, the heck with Lee. I'm more worried about us missing out on Huff. If Pup can sign him, then I feel a whole lot better about the team's situation.
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I agree completely however the key is to get the pick of the "reasonable" guys and not get stuck with fucking Preston Wilson. Pupura will hopefully be agressive in that regard this year if indeed Lee is priced out of the sane market.
That's the real trick, isn't it, though? Getting stuck with Preston Wilson cost the Astros far less than Purpura getting stuck with a $100-million albatross around his neck.
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Yep, the heck with Lee. I'm more worried about us missing out on Huff. If Pup can sign him, then I feel a whole lot better about the team's situation.
I'd be pretty surprised if they didn't sign Huff. And from what I've read, gullible sap that I am, I'd be somewhat surprised if they didn't sign Williams.
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I agree completely however the key is to get the pick of the "reasonable" guys and not get stuck with fucking Preston Wilson. Pupura will hopefully be agressive in that regard this year if indeed Lee is priced out of the sane market.
That's the real trick, isn't it, though? Getting stuck with Preston Wilson cost the Astros far less than Purpura getting stuck with a $100-million albatross around his neck.
The scary part about the $100 million albatross is the pressure to make a big splash when the pool is empty. Was Beltran worth his contract? Probably (the Stros thought so). So the question is who is a cornerstone/franchise player versus the albatross. The market says Lee & Soriano are the supply this year and of course the Astros certainly have the demand. Lee appears to be good RBI guy who might not have a position he can play in a couple of years (if not now). Purpura is in the ole damned if you do and damned if you dont position.
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so, you would pay Lee $100 million? that's not merely stupid; that is fucking idiotic.
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The scary part about the $100 million albatross is the pressure to make a big splash when the pool is empty. Was Beltran worth his contract? Probably (the Stros thought so). So the question is who is a cornerstone/franchise player versus the albatross. The market says Lee & Soriano are the supply this year and of course the Astros certainly have the demand. Lee appears to be good RBI guy who might not have a position he can play in a couple of years (if not now). Purpura is in the ole damned if you do and damned if you dont position.
He's only damned if he don't if he listens to the fools who think making any big move, no matter how imprudent, is good in and of itself. Good management is not only knowing when to take risks. It's also knowing when not to take risks. Any idiot GM with his owner's checkbook can throw money at that season's blue-chip free agents. It takes someone with some ability to evaluate talent, find bargains, cut deals and use common sense to avoid Oriole- or Dodger-itis.
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so, you would pay Lee $100 million? that's not merely stupid; that is fucking idiotic.
No I am definitely in the NOT to pay Lee $100 million camp.
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so, you would pay Lee $100 million? that's not merely stupid; that is fucking idiotic.
No I am definitely in the NOT to pay Lee $100 million camp.
Then Purpura is off the hook, damned wise. Because that is looking like what Lee is expecting at this point. Lee might be waiting to see if Baltimore elects to do something stupid and panicy. Astros will be waiting if they don't.
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If someone gives carlos lee 100 million, lord help us all. Everyone has a price range where you say no mas, and lee's is a lot lower than that. If he signs on the astros terms great, If he won't sign on your terms: I'd see what Luis Gonzalez, Cliff Floyd, Trot Nixon and David Dellucci want and if they are reasonable sign one to play corner OF. I'd also expect the Astros to sign huff at 7-8 mil for 3 or 4 years where he can play 3b/1b/OF depending on when garner wants lamb in the lineup as well.
I expect Williams to sign at 5-7 mil a year, for no more than two years fairly shortly. Other starting pitchers worth talking to if the price is right: Meche, Lilly, Schmidt, Suppan, Mulder, Eaton and Zito. However strike any boras clients off the list more than likely. As far as trade options: Jennings or Garcia(and Peavy if the pads are really serious about dealing him) would both really help the Astros at the right price.
Right now you have to build your pitching staff as if both Andy and Roger aren't playing, so that means they need another solid #2/3 type starter along with Williams in case bad news strikes.
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so, you would pay Lee $100 million? that's not merely stupid; that is fucking idiotic.
No I am definitely in the NOT to pay Lee $100 million camp.
Then Purpura is off the hook, damned wise. Because that is looking like what Lee is expecting at this point. Lee might be waiting to see if Baltimore elects to do something stupid and panicy. Astros will be waiting if they don't.
I don't think anyone other than Boston or Chicago is willing to do anything that stupid. I could be wrong. It's still early in the off-season. However, it is getting them great press. Too bad that doesn't win games come August but I don't want to inject reality when Cub and Sox fans are giddy with delusions of future playoff glory.
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so, you would pay Lee $100 million? that's not merely stupid; that is fucking idiotic.
I disagree.
I think there is a chance we'll look back and say $100m over 6 or 7 years isn't that crazy.
Much like the Randy Johnson contract that Arizona paid out after the 1998 season. At the time it was HOLY SHIT money, but over time it was a pretty reasonable.
Hell, the Oswalt deal now looks like the best deal ever signed. Zito, who isn't as good as Roy, will make a killing this off season.
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Uhh, I would rather have an OF of Scott and either Huff or Pence at the corners than have Gonzalez, Floyd, Nixon or Dellucci.
I am looking for production not half-injured production. Same reason I am not high on Drew.
But I totally agree about the pitching situation, although I think Pettitte and Clemens will be back, but you cannot count on that at this point.
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If someone gives carlos lee 100 million, lord help us all. Everyone has a price range where you say no mas, and lee's is a lot lower than that. If he signs on the astros terms great, If he won't sign on your terms: I'd see what Luis Gonzalez, Cliff Floyd, Trot Nixon and David Dellucci want and if they are reasonable sign one to play corner OF. I'd also expect the Astros to sign huff at 7-8 mil for 3 or 4 years where he can play 3b/1b/OF depending on when garner wants lamb in the lineup as well.
I expect Williams to sign at 5-7 mil a year, for no more than two years fairly shortly. Other starting pitchers worth talking to if the price is right: Meche, Lilly, Schmidt, Suppan, Mulder, Eaton and Zito. However strike any boras clients off the list more than likely. As far as trade options: Jennings or Garcia(and Peavy if the pads are really serious about dealing him) would both really help the Astros at the right price.
Right now you have to build your pitching staff as if both Andy and Roger aren't playing, so that means they need another solid #2/3 type starter along with Williams in case bad news strikes.
Only problem I see with what you stated is Houston needs a RH bat. Beyond that, I share your opinion.
ETA: In that sense, Jose Guillen is looking much more appealing if not for the fact he's psychotic.
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so, you would pay Lee $100 million? that's not merely stupid; that is fucking idiotic.
I disagree.
I think there is a chance we'll look back and say $100m over 6 or 7 years isn't that crazy.
Much like the Randy Johnson contract that Arizona paid out after the 1998 season. At the time it was HOLY SHIT money, but over time it was a pretty reasonable.
Hell, the Oswalt deal now looks like the best deal ever signed. Zito, who isn't as good as Roy, will make a killing this off season.
Only if all the top players start making in the 20's of millions of dollars do to great prosperity in MLB will such a contract be reasonable, and I just don't see that happening.
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If someone gives carlos lee 100 million, lord help us all. Everyone has a price range where you say no mas, and lee's is a lot lower than that. If he signs on the astros terms great, If he won't sign on your terms: I'd see what Luis Gonzalez, Cliff Floyd, Trot Nixon and David Dellucci want and if they are reasonable sign one to play corner OF. I'd also expect the Astros to sign huff at 7-8 mil for 3 or 4 years where he can play 3b/1b/OF depending on when garner wants lamb in the lineup as well.
I expect Williams to sign at 5-7 mil a year, for no more than two years fairly shortly. Other starting pitchers worth talking to if the price is right: Meche, Lilly, Schmidt, Suppan, Mulder, Eaton and Zito. However strike any boras clients off the list more than likely. As far as trade options: Jennings or Garcia(and Peavy if the pads are really serious about dealing him) would both really help the Astros at the right price.
Right now you have to build your pitching staff as if both Andy and Roger aren't playing, so that means they need another solid #2/3 type starter along with Williams in case bad news strikes.
Only problem I see with what you stated is Houston needs a RH bat. Beyond that, I share your opinion.
Only decent right handed bats outside of Lee are Jose Guillen(major gamble coming off shoulder surgery, would have to be an incentive type deal), Moises Alou(reportedly heading to the Mets already), Jay Payton, Matthews Jr(switch hitter), and two 1B in nevin, and clubhouse cancer hillenbrand. In the trade market you have Wells, Andruw Jones, Baldelli and Tejada(though i wouldn't want to deal with the O's front office anymore). If I can't pull off a trade option/Lee/Alou sign elsewhere, i'd still sign a veteran bat like one I listed because guys like floyd/gonzalez are good hitters period.
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Uhh, I would rather have an OF of Scott and either Huff or Pence at the corners than have Gonzalez, Floyd, Nixon or Dellucci.
I am looking for production not half-injured production. Same reason I am not high on Drew.
But I totally agree about the pitching situation, although I think Pettitte and Clemens will be back, but you cannot count on that at this point.
I have Huff playing 3b, right now with Scott manning one of the corner spots. I wouldn't want to go into the season relying on a rookie for the other spot without any veteran fallback options if I was the Astros, and I think those type hitters at the RIGHT DEAL could be big payoffs. Everything hinges on the right price.
I could play Lamb everyday at 3B but I would really prefer to keep his stick on the bench to help with late inning pressure situations.
Edit here are dellucci's numbers vs RHP the last three seasons in avg, obp, slg and OPS: .264 .366 .509 .875
Here are Gonzo's: .272 .369 .473 .842
Here are Floyd's: .277 .369 .498 .867
Here are nixon's: .297 .378 .471 .849
All 4 of these guys can still hit right handers at an above average clip and would help the offense. Sure it would be better if they were righthanded, but beggars cannot be choosers in the matter.
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so, you would pay Lee $100 million? that's not merely stupid; that is fucking idiotic.
I disagree.
I think there is a chance we'll look back and say $100m over 6 or 7 years isn't that crazy.
Much like the Randy Johnson contract that Arizona paid out after the 1998 season. At the time it was HOLY SHIT money, but over time it was a pretty reasonable.
Hell, the Oswalt deal now looks like the best deal ever signed. Zito, who isn't as good as Roy, will make a killing this off season.
Only if all the top players start making in the 20's of millions of dollars do to great prosperity in MLB will such a contract be reasonable, and I just don't see that happening.
Well, you've got A-Rod, Jeter and Manny in the $20M's right now (I think). Beltran hit $17M. Soriano is at $17M. I'm not sure how Lee at $14M- $15M is that much of a stretch.
What this tells me is Miggy Cabrera is going to break the fucking bank, and Poo Holes will be bitching pretty soon about re-doing his contract.
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so, you would pay Lee $100 million? that's not merely stupid; that is fucking idiotic.
I disagree.
I think there is a chance we'll look back and say $100m over 6 or 7 years isn't that crazy.
Much like the Randy Johnson contract that Arizona paid out after the 1998 season. At the time it was HOLY SHIT money, but over time it was a pretty reasonable.
Hell, the Oswalt deal now looks like the best deal ever signed. Zito, who isn't as good as Roy, will make a killing this off season.
Only if all the top players start making in the 20's of millions of dollars do to great prosperity in MLB will such a contract be reasonable, and I just don't see that happening.
Well, you've got A-Rod, Jeter and Manny in the $20M's right now (I think). Beltran hit $17M. Soriano is at $17M. I'm not sure how Lee at $14M- $15M is that much of a stretch.
What this tells me is Miggy Cabrera is going to break the fucking bank, and Poo Holes will be bitching pretty soon about re-doing his contract.
Of course cabrera will break the bank as would Albert. However unless baseball just has a ton of economic prosperity you can't afford to give out many contracts like these. It will catch up to you one day, unless you are a big market club imho. Right now it's not a stretch to give lee what you suggest, but give out too many contracts like that and you will be selling off talent left and right.
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so, you would pay Lee $100 million? that's not merely stupid; that is fucking idiotic.
I disagree.
I think there is a chance we'll look back and say $100m over 6 or 7 years isn't that crazy.
Much like the Randy Johnson contract that Arizona paid out after the 1998 season. At the time it was HOLY SHIT money, but over time it was a pretty reasonable.
Hell, the Oswalt deal now looks like the best deal ever signed. Zito, who isn't as good as Roy, will make a killing this off season.
Only if all the top players start making in the 20's of millions of dollars do to great prosperity in MLB will such a contract be reasonable, and I just don't see that happening.
Well, you've got A-Rod, Jeter and Manny in the $20M's right now (I think). Beltran hit $17M. Soriano is at $17M. I'm not sure how Lee at $14M- $15M is that much of a stretch.
What this tells me is Miggy Cabrera is going to break the fucking bank, and Poo Holes will be bitching pretty soon about re-doing his contract.
Manny and A-Rod are the only guys averaging $20, I believe. Rocket got that much last year (pro-rated, obviously).
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The Soriano deal is the fifth-largest total package given to a major league player, behind Alex Rodriguez ($252 million for 10 years), Derek Jeter ($189 million for 10 years), Manny Ramirez ($160 million for eight years) and Todd Helton ($141.5 million for 11 years).
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I say go for Huff, Williams and trade for Dunn if possible. Maybe even see if Bernie Williams or Hillenbrand would come to Houston. What about Jose Mesa? If Lidge struggles again, you have Wheeler and Mesa who can step in. I would also like to see Zaun come back and split time with Ausmus. Of course, I am assuming Pettite and Clemens come back
A lot cheeper than Lee for 100 mil. Am I crazy with this line of thinking?
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Of course cabrera will break the bank as would Albert. However unless baseball just has a ton of economic prosperity you can't afford to give out many contracts like these. It will catch up to you one day, unless you are a big market club imho. Right now it's not a stretch to give lee what you suggest, but give out too many contracts like that and you will be selling off talent left and right.
Who's to say baseball isn't in the middle of a ton of economic prosperity? Despite a constant increase in ticket prices, baseball is setting record attendance. The new tv deal with Fox/ESPN/TBS is an all time high. There is labor peace. If this isn't a time of econoic prosperity then there will never be a time of economic prosperity.
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Of course cabrera will break the bank as would Albert. However unless baseball just has a ton of economic prosperity you can't afford to give out many contracts like these. It will catch up to you one day, unless you are a big market club imho. Right now it's not a stretch to give lee what you suggest, but give out too many contracts like that and you will be selling off talent left and right.
Who's to say baseball isn't in the middle of a ton of economic prosperity? Despite a constant increase in ticket prices, baseball is setting record attendance. The new tv deal with Fox/ESPN/TBS is an all time high. There is labor peace. If this isn't a time of econoic prosperity then there will never be a time of economic prosperity.
All that is true, I just think it is dicey to sign a guy like Lee for that much based on the assumption of where player salaries might be five years from now. However if it was a shorter length deal for that kind of money, I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to it.