Post by: strosrays on April 17, 2006, 11:00:32 am
The link
As for Biggio, he comes in as the 10th greatest second basemen of all-time, even with his apparent defensive woes. Biggio?s figures are so poor defensively that Rogers Hornsby would no longer be the worst fielding second basemen in Cooperstown anymore. If he had simply been a league average fielder during his career, it is scary to think of where he might rank on this list...
Post by: homer on April 17, 2006, 11:15:26 am
fire away.
Post by: EasTexAstro on April 17, 2006, 11:18:52 am
..or did they just ask Jim?
Post by: mihoba on April 17, 2006, 11:28:18 am
He forgot one stat, HEART.
Post by: Limey on April 17, 2006, 11:41:58 am
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WARP and JAWS, lmao.
He forgot one stat, HEART.
When reading stuff like this, one should take into account some other metrics. Such as:
Columnist Utterly Not Truthful
Tossers Without Any Talent
Failure to Understand Complete Knowledge, With Idiot Tendencies
Post by: Arky Vaughan on April 17, 2006, 12:58:09 pm
Post by: mihoba on April 17, 2006, 01:11:13 pm
Hornsby could have had an iron glove, no matter. He was the best RH hitter in history.
Post by: toddthebod on April 17, 2006, 03:06:42 pm
Post by: Arky Vaughan on April 17, 2006, 03:10:14 pm
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Or, the writer could just forget about the ignorant so-called defensive shortcomings and admit that if Biggio reaches 3000 hits, he will be a lock, period. Funny that he never mentioned Bidge changing positions several times.
Hornsby could have had an iron glove, no matter. He was the best RH hitter in history.
I agree with you the the extent that he is making a case that has otherwise already been made. I was talking more generally about his statistical comparisons, which were too conclusory.
Post by: strosrays on April 17, 2006, 03:20:22 pm
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Until he got older, I never felt that Biggio was a below average second baseman. Am I totally off base?
No, I don't think you are.
This was my original thought... Forget all-time, I was never under the impression Biggio was even the worst defensive second baseman of his time... in his league ...in the division.
I don't entirely understand the metric this guy is using, but that's not the point. While there have been some misgivings here and there regarding Biggio's defense (mostly as he aged, as you say, and IIRC especially after the knee injury in 2000) I have never heard and it has never occurred to me he was terrible.
This article is the first place I have seen it.
Post by: Astroholic on April 17, 2006, 04:36:29 pm
Post by: CJM on April 17, 2006, 04:42:54 pm
Post by: CrawfordBoxes on April 17, 2006, 07:16:58 pm
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Has anybody noticed Biggio is throwing the ball much better this season? When turning two his velocity on throws to first has improved a good bit over last year, IMO.
For the most part you're right, his throwing has been good but other then that ground ball that went right under his glove he has fielded well. But when you see Burke play he is a lot better due to his tremendous range and arm. Burke can make plays deep in the whole behind second base and have enough on his throws to get people out.
Post by: Desperado on April 17, 2006, 07:36:20 pm
Post by: homer on April 17, 2006, 07:39:58 pm
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But when you see Burke play he is a lot better due to his tremendous range and arm. Burke can make plays deep in the whole behind second base and have enough on his throws to get people out.
He can also throw them into the dugout from there.
Post by: CJM on April 17, 2006, 08:21:34 pm
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...But when you see Burke play he is a lot better due to his tremendous range and arm. Burke can make plays deep in the whole behind second base and have enough on his throws to get people out.
Wow. Tremendous range and arm? Burke? Have you not noticed how he seems to be in the middle of a battle between his upper body and feet? He has a difficult time getting into good position to field the ball, and he looks somewhat awkward when making anything but routine throws.
Post by: MikeyBoy on April 18, 2006, 09:46:09 am
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Wow. Tremendous range and arm? Burke? Have you not noticed how he seems to be in the middle of a battle between his upper body and feet? He has a difficult time getting into good position to field the ball, and he looks somewhat awkward when making anything but routine throws.
Great assessment of Burke's fielding at second base so far. Based on the way he flops around on the field trying to get to grounders at second base, I'm going to go out on a limb and say we won't see much of him at shortstop this year, or ever.
Post by: JimR on April 18, 2006, 10:45:49 am
Post by: homer on April 18, 2006, 11:09:27 am
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CrawfordBoxes now has zero credibility.
Just now? I think you are getting soft.
Post by: VirtualBob on April 18, 2006, 10:18:45 pm
Quote:Quote:
...But when you see Burke play he is a lot better due to his tremendous range and arm. Burke can make plays deep in the whole behind second base and have enough on his throws to get people out.
Wow. Tremendous range and arm? Burke? Have you not noticed how he seems to be in the middle of a battle between his upper body and feet? He has a difficult time getting into good position to field the ball, and he looks somewhat awkward when making anything but routine throws.
LOL ... That's Burke!
Post by: JJxvi on April 18, 2006, 10:41:21 pm
Post by: SoonerJim on April 19, 2006, 01:53:34 pm
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Or, the writer could just forget about the ignorant so-called defensive shortcomings and admit that if Biggio reaches 3000 hits, he will be a lock, period. Funny that he never mentioned Bidge changing positions several times.
Hornsby could have had an iron glove, no matter. He was the best RH hitter in history.
I read somewhere Hornsby couldn't catch popups. Biggio excelled at three positions.
What putrid offal. One 2B got in the HOF because he was mentioned in a stupid poem, and he played in Chicago. Another piggybacked on the 27 Yankees.
Post by: mihoba on April 19, 2006, 02:14:37 pm
Quote:Quote:
Or, the writer could just forget about the ignorant so-called defensive shortcomings and admit that if Biggio reaches 3000 hits, he will be a lock, period. Funny that he never mentioned Bidge changing positions several times.
Hornsby could have had an iron glove, no matter. He was the best RH hitter in history.
I read somewhere Hornsby couldn't catch popups. Biggio excelled at three positions.
What putrid offal. One 2B got in the HOF because he was mentioned in a stupid poem, and he played in Chicago. Another piggybacked on the 27 Yankees.
Ah yes, Tinker to Evers to Chance. You could say the same about the SS Tinker, too. Chance was legit however.
Tony Lazzeri was a good hitter, but he didn't play as long as most HOF'ers.
Post by: pravata on April 19, 2006, 02:21:13 pm
Quote:Quote:
Or, the writer could just forget about the ignorant so-called defensive shortcomings and admit that if Biggio reaches 3000 hits, he will be a lock, period. Funny that he never mentioned Bidge changing positions several times.
Hornsby could have had an iron glove, no matter. He was the best RH hitter in history.
I read somewhere Hornsby couldn't catch popups. Biggio excelled at three positions.
What putrid offal. One 2B got in the HOF because he was mentioned in a stupid poem, and he played in Chicago. Another piggybacked on the 27 Yankees.
Excelled isnt the right word. Adequate at catcher, adequate to somewhat better but it was always mentioned he used to be a catcher, to having the range of a Myers Lemon Tree at 2nd (broke knee will do that) to able to catch a fly ball but hold your breath if he has to go to his right in center.
Post by: homer on April 19, 2006, 02:25:16 pm
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Excelled isnt the right word. Adequate at catcher, adequate to somewhat better but it was always mentioned he used to be a catcher, to having the range of a Myers Lemon Tree at 2nd (broke knee will do that) to able to catch a fly ball but hold your breath if he has to go to his right in center
Or make a throw from center.
Post by: JimR on April 19, 2006, 02:56:37 pm
Post by: SoonerJim on April 19, 2006, 03:08:13 pm
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wow, if you think Biggio "excelled" in the OF, i have some swampland to sell you.
If I'm pushing someone for the HOF, hyperbole is my most effective weapon.
Post by: JimR on April 19, 2006, 03:21:46 pm