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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: otterj on March 27, 2006, 12:52:50 am
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Rookie of the Year in 1991
MVP 1994
Gold Glove winner
Perennial All-Star
Ranked in the top 50 all-time in 9 categories
Only first baseman with 400 HR's and 200 SB's
Twice went 30-30
Hit over .300 six times
One of only 27 players with 1500 RBI and 1500 Runs
One of only five players in baseball history with career totals of more than .290 400 HR 1500 RBI 1500 RUNS and 200 SB
6th most seasons of any player all-time of 30 HR 100 RBI 100 Run seasons with eight
Most seasons of any major league player ever with 30 HR 100 RBI 100 Runs 10 SB with seven
In my mind, there's no doubt. He's a Hall of Famer and right next to Craig Biggio as the greatest Astros ever.
If anyone has any more of these hall of fame type numbers, by all means, add on...
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His 152 runs scored in 2000 was the most in the major leagues since Lou Gehrig scored 167 in 1936, sixty four years before and the tenth highest total in the modern era.
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Most bad ass Astros player ever?
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His 152 runs scored in 2000 was the most in the major leagues since Lou Gehrig scored 167 in 1936, sixty four years before and the tenth highest total in the modern era.
and that was, not coincidentally, also the year that hidalgo (and perhaps alou also) had his career year (and obviously also the first crazy year in the juice box).
it is becoming more and more common to hear speculation about how bagwell's offensive numbers would have looked if not for all those years in the dome, but to me an equally interesting question is how his numbers might have looked with a consistently better lineup around him. just think of all the derek bells and sean berrys that have trotted through the 4 and 5 spots of the houston lineup through the years. other than biggio of course, am i correct that only berkman and alou have been astro position player all-stars since bagwell joined the team (not counting ensberg last year), and that alou, bell, berkman, and carl everett are the only teammates of bagwell who've had a 100 rbi season? and what if the astros had not missed the prime years of cammy, finley, luis gonzalez and abreu?
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His 152 runs scored in 2000 was the most in the major leagues since Lou Gehrig scored 167 in 1936, sixty four years before and the tenth highest total in the modern era.
seven straight years of 100+ BB
1401 BB (24th all-time)
.408 career OBP (19th all-time)
.948 OPS (FWIW) (20th all-time, ahead of Griffey Jr., Mays, Aaron, Cobb...)
stats from MLB site. By the way, I wouldn't call Bags a "perennial" All-Star- he made it 4 times. However, I think All-Star teams is a poor way to evaluate HOF-worthiness.
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Rookie of the Year in 1991
MVP 1994
Gold Glove winner
Perennial All-Star
Ranked in the top 50 all-time in 9 categories
Only first baseman with 400 HR's and 200 SB's
Twice went 30-30
Hit over .300 six times
One of only 27 players with 1500 RBI and 1500 Runs
One of only five players in baseball history with career totals of more than .290 400 HR 1500 RBI 1500 RUNS and 200 SB
6th most seasons of any player all-time of 30 HR 100 RBI 100 Run seasons with eight
Most seasons of any major league player ever with 30 HR 100 RBI 100 Runs 10 SB with seven
In my mind, there's no doubt. He's a Hall of Famer and right next to Craig Biggio as the greatest Astros ever.
If anyone has any more of these hall of fame type numbers, by all means, add on...
His MVP year was strike-shortened. Project his numbers to a full season and they're sick, in the modern definition of the word. Being in the Astrodome wasn't any gift to his hitting legacy either, to which Jimmy Wynn can attest.
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His MVP year was strike-shortened.
Actually, no. His MVP year was injury-shortened. While extrapolating his numbers that year would give you an idea for how good he was for those 4 months, it's an exercise in futility. Even if the strike did not happen, he would still not have been able to play.
The only reason he won MVP is because the strike happened three days after he broke his hand.
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I agree his numbers woulda been "sick" given a full season. But you can't blame it on the strike, he broke his hand like two weeks before the strike and would've missed a couple months anyway.
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He also had three Silver Slugger awards; '94, '97, and '99.
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I always learn something looking at this site:
The Link
For purposes of this debate, their career summary of leader boards, MVP votes, most similar players, and their HOF scoring makes a strong case for Jeff.
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You're supposed to be running a draft right now, geez. And thanks for giving away one of my trivia sites.
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It is bizare to me that Bagwell was only an All Star 4 (FOUR?) times in his career. I agree with others on a previous thread that he has an excellent chance to be viewed as the best NL 1b of all time. To have only four all star appearances is strange to me.
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It is bizare to me that Bagwell was only an All Star 4 (FOUR?) times in his career. I agree with others on a previous thread that he has an excellent chance to be viewed as the best NL 1b of all time. To have only four all star appearances is strange to me.
Perennial slow-starter.
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It is bizare to me that Bagwell was only an All Star 4 (FOUR?) times in his career. I agree with others on a previous thread that he has an excellent chance to be viewed as the best NL 1b of all time. To have only four all star appearances is strange to me.
Perennial slow-starter.
Exactly.
And B-R is a great website... been on my favorites for a few years now.
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It is bizare to me that Bagwell was only an All Star 4 (FOUR?) times in his career. I agree with others on a previous thread that he has an excellent chance to be viewed as the best NL 1b of all time. To have only four all star appearances is strange to me.
The problem Bagwwell will encounter in the voting is that he played a position that was stacked with offense in an era with historically high offense (this also explains his relatively few All-Star selections). R. Palmiero was facing this before he 500 HR/3000 hits (before steroids). the McGriff case is going to be very interesting, too. Especially interesting will be Todd Helton, who will face these issues AND the Coors effect.
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It is bizare to me that Bagwell was only an All Star 4 (FOUR?) times in his career. I agree with others on a previous thread that he has an excellent chance to be viewed as the best NL 1b of all time. To have only four all star appearances is strange to me.
Perennial slow-starter.
Exactly.
And B-R is a great website... been on my favorites for a few years now.
Bagwell first gets selected in '94, and was last voted in in '97. He's selected onto '99, which is the last time he appears (and he starts with McGwire as DH, I think). In '98 McGwire starts, and in 2001 Helton, then in 2004 Pujols. You can argue about who's selected instead of voted, but that's not a bad list of 1st basemen over a decade.
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It is bizare to me that Bagwell was only an All Star 4 (FOUR?) times in his career. I agree with others on a previous thread that he has an excellent chance to be viewed as the best NL 1b of all time. To have only four all star appearances is strange to me.
Perennial slow-starter.
Exactly.
And B-R is a great website... been on my favorites for a few years now.
Bagwell first gets selected in '94, and was last voted in in '97. He's selected onto '99, which is the last time he appears (and he starts with McGwire as DH, I think). In '98 McGwire starts, and in 2001 Helton, then in 2004 Pujols. You can argue about who's selected instead of voted, but that's not a bad list of 1st basemen over a decade.
Forgot about the broken hand. My bad. Bagwell needs to get into the HOF before Pujols rewrites the record book. All-star selections are not a good criterion, IMO. For years, the 25th spot on the team was accorded to the game's elder statesman (Mantle, Mays, etc). It was more important for the HOF prospects to appear in the WS.