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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: JimR on August 24, 2019, 08:14:21 am

Title: Greinke
Post by: JimR on August 24, 2019, 08:14:21 am
I love watching him pitch. What he did to Trout last night was something to see. What a contrast to JV and Cole.

I think I would make a two year extension offer to Cole to try to entice him to pitch with them for the balance of their contracts. His payday will be big enough, and there still will be time for a megadeal. Not likely, I know.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: jbm on August 24, 2019, 08:29:34 am
Not on topic, but related to Greinke.

I figure there isn’t enough data for the Astros to draw conclusions, but based on the few games I’ve seen, the typical Astros shifting and ground balls off Greinke are at a mismatch.  It just seems that he has been screwed over numerous times, and I can’t recall it benefiting him.  Maybe it’s just a small sample, or maybe ground balls off him are outliers from the bulk of other pitchers
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: JimR on August 24, 2019, 08:33:02 am
Not on topic, but related to Greinke.

I figure there isn’t enough data for the Astros to draw conclusions, but based on the few games I’ve seen, the typical Astros shifting and ground balls off Greinke are at a mismatch.  It just seems that he has been screwed over numerous times, and I can’t recall it benefiting him.  Maybe it’s just a small sample, or maybe ground balls off him are outliers from the bulk of other pitchers

He is 4-0 and does not appear to be concerned about hits, especially soft contact ones. Not every ground ball to an open space is caused by a shift. My guess is if it becaomes a problem, he will speak up, and the Astros will adjust.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Astros Fan in Big D on August 24, 2019, 09:17:17 am
I grew up an Astros fan,  so I love seeing batters getting blown away.

But I do enjoy watching Grienke employ his craft.

Fastball:  88
Changeup: 87

Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: JimR on August 24, 2019, 09:50:20 am
I grew up an Astros fan,  so I love seeing batters getting blown away.

But I do enjoy watching Grienke employ his craft.

Fastball:  88
Changeup: 87

Yeah, strikeouts are nice, but I love watching actual pitching.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Mr. Happy on August 24, 2019, 06:30:53 pm
He is 4-0 and does not appear to be concerned about hits, especially soft contact ones. Not every ground ball to an open space is caused by a shift. My guess is if it becaomes a problem, he will speak up, and the Astros will adjust.

This. This right here.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Astros Fan in Big D on October 01, 2019, 03:28:21 pm
Ben Reiter's article on the acquisition of Grienke (thank you Mr Crane):

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/10/01/houston-astros-zack-greinke-world-series (https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/10/01/houston-astros-zack-greinke-world-series)
Title: Greinke
Post by: geezerdonk on October 01, 2019, 04:10:37 pm
Great article. Crane thinks big. Not excited to see Cole and Verlander as Sports Illustrated cover boys.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Snuffy on October 01, 2019, 06:40:56 pm
Ben Reiter's article on the acquisition of Grienke (thank you Mr Crane):

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/10/01/houston-astros-zack-greinke-world-series (https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/10/01/houston-astros-zack-greinke-world-series)
Crane is apparently a bottom line guy,
Quote
“Who is Josh Rojas?” Crane asked....
(Later) ...“O.K.,” Crane said, measuredly. “So you’re holding up this deal for a late-round utility guy who is having a good year?”
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Waldo on October 02, 2019, 10:25:15 am
Crane is apparently a bottom line guy,

Big fan of Crane's approach there.  Offer perspective by boiling the situation down to its essence, but don't editorialize and leave the decision to the baseball people.  Drayton no doubt would have tried to influence the decision.

Also love that Crane worked out the financial aspect with AZ's owner before the deal was done to save time later.  Not sure if that's a common practice or not.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: DVauthrin on October 02, 2019, 11:03:48 am
Great read, and it makes it apparent that Jim Crane knows baseball and is a perfect complement to Jeff Lunhow. 
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: juliogotay on October 02, 2019, 11:20:26 am
Great read, and it makes it apparent that Jim Crane knows baseball and is a perfect complement to Jeff Lunhow.

When McLane sold to Crane the ownership position improved by several WAR points.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: BlownRanger on October 02, 2019, 11:48:03 am
Big fan of Crane's approach there.  Offer perspective by boiling the situation down to its essence, but don't editorialize and leave the decision to the baseball people.  Drayton no doubt would have tried to influence the decision.


Drayton would have left the decision to Pam Gardner.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: juliogotay on October 02, 2019, 12:14:20 pm
In other Drayton news, he is suing Crane for purposely tanking in 2012-13 to undermine Comcast Sportsnet. https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/astros/article/Drayton-McLane-charges-Jim-Crane-Astros-tanked-14484014.php

I can't imagine investing in a business model that revolves around the fortunes of a single, or even two, sports teams' performance to determine profits.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: BudGirl on October 02, 2019, 12:16:12 pm
In other Drayton news, he is suing Crane for purposely tanking in 2012-13 to undermine Comcast Sportsnet. https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sports/astros/article/Drayton-McLane-charges-Jim-Crane-Astros-tanked-14484014.php

I can't imagine investing in a business model that revolves around the fortunes of a single, or even two, sports teams' performance to determine profits.


I'd love to sit on that jury.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: homer on October 02, 2019, 12:48:50 pm
Quote
"I told them I'd never done anything in business without setting goals," McLane said. "I wanted them to tell me how many games we were going to win that season. They looked real strangely at me and finally Bill said, `Drayton, we don't do that in baseball.'

"I asked what we did in baseball. They said we play them one at a time."

There was an awkward pause as Wood and Howe apparently considered how best to deal with this new boss.

"Well, Drayton, how many games do you think we're going to win?" Wood asked.

"I've been thinking about that," he replied. "Why don't we try for 130? Bill looked at me like I was crazy. He said, `Drayton, this is going to be the 124th year of major league baseball, and if we win 130 games, we'll do something that hasn't been done in 124 years.'

https://www.chron.com/news/article/Astros-have-blossomed-under-McLane-2020115.php
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Col. Sphinx Drummond on October 02, 2019, 12:56:18 pm
I forget why I had soured so much on McLain... Oh yeah, it was that time he held Selig’s dick when they fucked Crane into the AL. FWIW I’m over the AL switch.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: BizidyDizidy on October 02, 2019, 12:57:24 pm
AL is fine, AL West is slightly suboptimal
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: MusicMan on October 02, 2019, 04:44:02 pm
I forget why I had soured so much on McLain... Oh yeah, it was that time he held Selig’s dick when they fucked Crane into the AL. FWIW I’m over the AL switch.

It didn’t help when he forked over money to build a football stadium for rapists.


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Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Aussie Astro on October 02, 2019, 07:11:32 pm
I forget why I had soured so much on McLain... Oh yeah, it was that time he held Selig’s dick when they fucked Crane into the AL. FWIW I’m over the AL switch.

A bit of winning will cure most ailments.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Lefty on October 02, 2019, 08:55:27 pm
It didn’t help when he forked over money to build a football stadium for rapists.


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Or the Zambrano game
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: das on October 18, 2019, 05:28:00 am
Favorite Greinke quote so far is from last night:

Reporter:  “Zach, what do you think about being up 3-1 early?”
Greinke: “It’s better than not being up 3-1”
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: dickntx on October 18, 2019, 06:44:35 am
Favorite Greinke quote so far is from last night:

Reporter:  “Zach, what do you think about being up 3-1 early?”
Greinke: “It’s better than not being up 3-1”
I don't know if it's intentional (actually it might be) but Zach's simplistic answers usually demonstrate the idiocy of the question being asked.  What do think about being up 3-1?  What do you think?  We're on the road in a hostile environment, who wouldn't want to be 3-1 given the chance.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: HudsonHawk on October 18, 2019, 09:33:24 am
I don't know if it's intentional (actually it might be) but Zach's simplistic answers usually demonstrate the idiocy of the question being asked.  What do think about being up 3-1?  What do you think?  We're on the road in a hostile environment, who wouldn't want to be 3-1 given the chance.

I'm sure the intent of the question was more like "does having a lead change your approach out there at all, and if so, how?"  But it was awkwardly worded. 
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Bench on October 18, 2019, 09:47:58 am
I'm sure the intent of the question was more like "does having a lead change your approach out there at all, and if so, how?"  But it was awkwardly worded.

But also I think a lot of times sports reports lob softballs like that just to give the player a chance to talk about the game however he wants. That was certainly the case with the question to Desaun Watson that made the rounds a few weeks ago. Ask a fairly obvious question, and Watson gave a very insightful and informative response.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: VirtualBob on October 18, 2019, 09:51:09 am
I'm sure the intent of the question was more like "does having a lead change your approach out there at all, and if so, how?"  But it was awkwardly worded.
I think you are giving the reporter too much credit here.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Astros Fan in Big D on October 18, 2019, 10:13:01 am
A radio show here makes fun of post game questions that begins with "Talk about".

Talk about ....

Getting a lead
Losing a lead
Being tied
Breaking a tie
Winning
Losing

Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: das on October 18, 2019, 11:18:11 am
I don't know if it's intentional (actually it might be) but Zach's simplistic answers usually demonstrate the idiocy of the question being asked.  What do think about being up 3-1?  What do you think?  We're on the road in a hostile environment, who wouldn't want to be 3-1 given the chance.

It's like the reporters have never encountered or considered how to interview a neurodivergent person.  Asking two simple questions would typically give them the responses they crave so much:

1) Is there anything you'd like to tell me about the game today?  Risk there is a simple answer of "no" may be the outcome.  But, just as easily, they'd get a stream of consciousness response with tons of nuggets.  Or,

2) What is interesting to you lately?  It's a great question to get someone on the spectrum or who suffers with any number of anxiety disorders to information dump in areas that are interesting to them.  A great way get a peek into their thoughts and thought processes.  The risk there is he may info dump on Starbucks, or hitting or peanut butter cups or butterflies or Princess Bride or any of the things Greinke is known to be interested in but there is also usually really interesting things to write about in there too.

The longterm upside is interest-based trust is developed over time, which promotes more openness and transparency. 
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Col. Sphinx Drummond on October 18, 2019, 12:21:50 pm
Favorite Greinke quote so far is from last night:

Reporter:  “Zach, what do you think about being up 3-1 early?”
Greinke: “It’s better than not being up 3-1”
But not as good as being up 4-1.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: JimR on October 18, 2019, 12:26:07 pm
I think you are giving the reporter too much credit here.

Absolutely correct.

Sports reporters and broadcasters (even the great Craig Way) rarely ask good questions these days. Usually it is suggesting the answer like “How great is it your team is up 3-1 in the ALCS?”

ETA: after the first inning (the wind blown pop fly and HPU on Encarnacion hurt him), he was very good. I was really rooting for him to get through five or six innings.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: jbm on October 18, 2019, 12:43:16 pm
Yeah, he did a great job. It has to give him some more confidence that he can perform in these big games.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Snuffy on October 18, 2019, 12:44:34 pm
It's like the reporters have never encountered or considered how to interview a neurodivergent person.  Asking two simple questions would typically give them the responses they crave so much:

1) Is there anything you'd like to tell me about the game today?  Risk there is a simple answer of "no" may be the outcome.  But, just as easily, they'd get a stream of consciousness response with tons of nuggets.  Or,

2) What is interesting to you lately?  It's a great question to get someone on the spectrum or who suffers with any number of anxiety disorders to information dump in areas that are interesting to them.  A great way get a peek into their thoughts and thought processes.  The risk there is he may info dump on Starbucks, or hitting or peanut butter cups or butterflies or Princess Bride or any of the things Greinke is known to be interested in but there is also usually really interesting things to write about in there too.

The longterm upside is interest-based trust is developed over time, which promotes more openness and transparency.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Mr. Appropriate on October 18, 2019, 12:53:53 pm
It's like the reporters have never encountered or considered how to interview a neurodivergent person.  Asking two simple questions would typically give them the responses they crave so much:

1) Is there anything you'd like to tell me about the game today?  Risk there is a simple answer of "no" may be the outcome.  But, just as easily, they'd get a stream of consciousness response with tons of nuggets.  Or,

2) What is interesting to you lately?  It's a great question to get someone on the spectrum or who suffers with any number of anxiety disorders to information dump in areas that are interesting to them.  A great way get a peek into their thoughts and thought processes.  The risk there is he may info dump on Starbucks, or hitting or peanut butter cups or butterflies or Princess Bride or any of the things Greinke is known to be interested in but there is also usually really interesting things to write about in there too.

The longterm upside is interest-based trust is developed over time, which promotes more openness and transparency.
That's brilliant das. Do you have people in your life on the spectrum?

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Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: das on October 18, 2019, 01:46:45 pm
That's brilliant das. Do you have people in your life on the spectrum?

Yes, a fair number.  As well as some with social anxiety with co-morbid depression and a fair number of other neurodivergences.  Some of my kids, some of their biological family members, things like that.  Plus, my wife is a psychologist and practicing therapist at a Center for Anxiety Care here in the northeast so I hear all the stories and latest research trends...

Edited to add:  I offhandedly mentioned that the Astros picked up a neurodivergent pitcher at the trade deadline at the dinner table with my family and it generated 2 hours of really interesting and fun conversation with the family.  The could care less about baseball but all loved that the Astros were inclusive enough to recognized the value he would provide and not fearful or discriminatory about his behaviors.  They all pulled out their phones (usually not allowed at the dinner table) and started reading off quotes and comments about Greinke that are publicly available.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Mr. Appropriate on October 18, 2019, 02:11:26 pm
Great story about your family dinner table convo. Maybe the astros front office gets in front of this and does a little training on how to have a more interesting interaction with ZG. As funny as the interactions have been, i'd love to hear a competant journalist engage him.

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Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: MusicMan on October 18, 2019, 02:48:53 pm
This also got me to thinking... does anyone know Bregman’s link to autism? I know his foundation works to provide technology assistance to kids on the spectrum, and he’s working to open a school dedicated to kids on the spectrum.


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Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: chuck on October 18, 2019, 03:27:46 pm
This also got me to thinking... does anyone know Bregman’s link to autism? I know his foundation works to provide technology assistance to kids on the spectrum, and he’s working to open a school dedicated to kids on the spectrum.

I assume there are other connections, but the son of his longtime hitting instructor and friend is autistic.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Mr. Appropriate on October 18, 2019, 03:34:38 pm
I assume there are other connections, but the son of his longtime hitting instructor and friend is autistic.
Doubt Bregman needs much motivation to be a mensch. So glad he's an Astro.

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Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: BudGirl on October 18, 2019, 05:16:28 pm
I assume there are other connections, but the son of his longtime hitting instructor and friend is autistic.

For some reason I though that son was also his godson.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Lefty on October 18, 2019, 05:50:18 pm
I assume there are other connections, but the son of his longtime hitting instructor and friend is autistic.

Didn't know this.  Thanks.

From this sort of standpoint, could there be a better manager than Hinch?
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Snuffy on October 19, 2019, 12:46:43 pm
Doubt Bregman needs much motivation to be a mensch. So glad he's an Astro.

Absolutely. 
Regardless of the votes, he is a MVP in many ways.
Title: Re: Greinke
Post by: Fredia on October 20, 2019, 01:03:31 pm
true on the mvp  but altuve  is the heart of the team and does not miss a beat