OrangeWhoopass.com Forums

General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: BUWebguy on June 26, 2017, 12:17:01 pm

Title: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BUWebguy on June 26, 2017, 12:17:01 pm
Talking with a friend the other day, I was trying to recall examples of notable in-season trades where the Astros were the buyers, not the sellers.

Obviously there's Randy Johnson and Beltran. Is Kazmir the third-biggest midseason acquisition in Astros history? Gomez/Fiers? Surely I'm missing something. (Again, thinking veterans, not prospects -- so no Bagwell trade here.)

When else have the Astros gone for it in such a way?
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: HudsonHawk on June 26, 2017, 12:26:53 pm
Aubrey Huff?
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: moriartp on June 26, 2017, 12:36:30 pm
Even though the team fell short, Randy Wolf ended up being a very solid acquisition in '08.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BlownRanger on June 26, 2017, 12:49:26 pm
In the Nearly a Major Change in History Department:  In the mid-nineties, the Astros reached a post-deadline waiver deal with the Pirates to trade minor league starter Billy Wagner for Jay Bell and Jeff King.  One of the other NL West teams blocked the trade by claiming both veterans.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Tonywatson on June 26, 2017, 02:04:35 pm
Phil Garner in 1981 for Johnny Ray, Randy Niemann and Kevin Houston.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: hostros7 on June 26, 2017, 03:21:17 pm
Dan "wrecking ball" Wheeler


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: chuck on June 26, 2017, 04:05:10 pm
Pedro Astacio and Mike Williams.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: HudsonHawk on June 26, 2017, 05:19:41 pm
Dan "wrecking ball" Wheeler


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wheeler was a borderline middle reliever.  I don't think they thought he was the missing piece or really be a difference maker.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: hostros7 on June 26, 2017, 06:56:39 pm
Wheeler was a borderline middle reliever.  I don't think they thought he was the missing piece or really be a difference maker.

Agree - my comment was kind of tongue-in-cheek. I thought he wasn't much more than an extra arm when they traded for him, and his tenure with the team exceeded my most bullish expectations. He's one of my favorite bullpen guys from aughts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Tonywatson on June 26, 2017, 08:50:06 pm
Wheeler wasn't thought to be the missing link but he really added an element to that bullpen and became an important piece in the heat of the season and playoffs


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Reuben on June 26, 2017, 09:29:30 pm
As long as we're trying to think of any stretch-run acquisitions,

Davey Lopes 1986
Oliver Perez 2015
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Tonywatson on June 27, 2017, 06:35:43 am
If we are voting for worst in-season acquisitions, Oliver Perez may win the prize, even over Gomez.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Col. Sphinx Drummond on June 27, 2017, 07:57:40 am
Acquiring Mike Ivie for Jeff Leonard and Dave Bergman was a horrible stretch-run  trade.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Tonywatson on June 27, 2017, 09:28:06 am
That wasn't a stretch run trade. It was very early in the season. You are right, however, it was a ridiculous trade.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Reuben on June 27, 2017, 11:29:02 am
If we are voting for worst in-season acquisitions, Oliver Perez may win the prize, even over Gomez.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What? By what criteria?
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Tonywatson on June 27, 2017, 11:31:20 am
What? By what criteria?

0-3, 6.75 ERA, 1.5 WHIP, my eyes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Reuben on June 27, 2017, 11:46:44 am
0-3, 6.75 ERA, 1.5 WHIP, my eyes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
He pitched 12 innings. 12 innings. And was acquired for a very low-level prospect that most on here (including me) would have to look up to remember. Gomez was terrible for 1 1/2 years, and cost (in part) Brett Phillips, Hader, Domingo Santana, and Houser. A far more damaging trade.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Tonywatson on June 27, 2017, 12:04:12 pm
Yes, no question, one of the worst trades in Astros history. But the issue was in-season acquisitions and Perez added nothing but stress and a really weird pitching motion. At least Gomez hit a HR in wild card game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BUWebguy on June 27, 2017, 12:41:22 pm
So, running it all down:

1981: Acquired Phil Garner for Johnny Ray, Randy Niemann and Kevin Houston
1986: Acquired Davey Lopes for Frank DiPino
1986: Acquired Danny Darwin for Don August and Mark Knudson
1998: Acquired Randy Johnson for Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen and John Halama
2001: Acquired Pedro Astacio for Scott Elarton
2001: Acquired Mike Williams for Tony McKnight
2004: Acquired Carlos Beltran for Octavio Dotel, John Buck and cash
2006: Acquired Aubrey Huff for Ben Zobrist and Mitch Talbot
2008: Acquired Randy Wolf for Chad Reineke
2015: Acquired Scott Kazmir for Jacob Nottingham and Daniel Mengden
2015: Acquired Carlos Gomez and Mike Fiers for Josh Hader, Adrian Houser, Brett Phillips and Domingo Santana.

12 notable stretch-run acquisitions:
* Two absolute stars (Johnson, Beltran)
* Two solid, long-term contributors (Garner, Darwin)
* Seven solid, if not spectacular, additions (Lopes, Astacio, Williams, Huff, Wolf, Kazmir, Fiers)
* One flop (Gomez)

22 players traded away:
* Four were young players who had long, all-star-ish careers (Johnny Ray, Freddy Garcia, Carlos Guillen, Ben Zobrist)
* Four were young players who had long, but average careers (Mark Knudson, John Halama, Scott Elarton, John Buck)
* Two were veterans who had several more productive years after the trade (Frank DiPino, Octavio Dotel)
* Six had little or no big-league time after the trade (Randy Niemann, Kevin Houston, Don August, Tony McKnight, Mitch Talbot, Chad Reineke)
* Six, the jury is still out on: (Jacob Nottingham, Daniel Mengden, Josh Hader, Adrian Houser, Brett Phillips and Domingo Santana)

Obviously trades from 30+ years ago have virtually nothing to say about today's landscape, and you can certainly call this a small sample size. But overall, the Huff/Zobrist trade is probably the only one Houston got truly burned on, so far. The others have generally been fair trades -- short-term value for long-term possibility, with some of it panning out and some of it not. For me, at least, that provides some encouragement to go for it if a good-looking deal is there.

[Updated to add the Darwin trade.]
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: homer on June 27, 2017, 02:10:53 pm
Danny Darwin: August 15, 1986: Traded by the Milwaukee Brewers to the Houston Astros for Don August and Mark Knudson.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Mr. Happy on June 27, 2017, 02:37:19 pm
Danny Darwin: August 15, 1986: Traded by the Milwaukee Brewers to the Houston Astros for Don August and Mark Knudson.

Gotta have Dr. Death in there.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: jaklewein on June 27, 2017, 02:42:25 pm
In the Nearly a Major Change in History Department:  In the mid-nineties, the Astros reached a post-deadline waiver deal with the Pirates to trade minor league starter Billy Wagner for Jay Bell and Jeff King.  One of the other NL West teams blocked the trade by claiming both veterans.

Same type of department...how about the rumored trade that would have netted the Astros Moyer and Randy Wynn, but never happened?   Think Moyer shot it down?
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: juliogotay on June 27, 2017, 03:03:01 pm
Gotta have Dr. Death in there.

Great trade.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Reuben on June 27, 2017, 03:32:37 pm
Same type of department...how about the rumored trade that would have netted the Astros Moyer and Randy Wynn, but never happened?   Think Moyer shot it down?
Oh yeah, that sounds about right. When was that, 2004?
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: homer on June 27, 2017, 03:47:18 pm
Oh yeah, that sounds about right. When was that, 2004?

2005

Winn went to SFG and posted a 1.071 OPS in 58 games.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BUWebguy on June 27, 2017, 04:12:01 pm
Good call on Darwin; added him to my post above.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Waldo on June 28, 2017, 07:53:17 am
Can anyone imagine winning the 1999 division title without Matt "Pornstache" Mieske?
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BlownRanger on June 28, 2017, 08:32:02 am
Same type of department...how about the rumored trade that would have netted the Astros Moyer and Randy Wynn, but never happened?   Think Moyer shot it down?

Moyer definitely nixed it.  He said all sorts of glowing things about Houston, but indicated the timing just wasn't right.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Reuben on June 28, 2017, 10:07:27 am
Yes, no question, one of the worst trades in Astros history. But the issue was in-season acquisitions and Perez added nothing but stress and a really weird pitching motion. At least Gomez hit a HR in wild card game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I see. You're talking about least-impactful addition. I'm talking about worst trade. Two different things.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on June 28, 2017, 10:50:39 am
Perez was not a bad trade. He might not have pitched great, but he was a good acquisition.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: AstroFrog on June 28, 2017, 01:58:20 pm
Did  the Astros trade for Vinny Castilla in 2001, or was he a cast off that they picked up?  He shored things up for that division winning club.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BizidyDizidy on June 28, 2017, 01:58:57 pm
Did  the Astros trade for Vinny Castilla in 2001, or was he a cast off that they picked up?  He shored things up for that division winning club.

Cast-off, as I recall (seem to remember they were paying him the minimum due to offset language)
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: HudsonHawk on June 28, 2017, 02:20:39 pm
Cast-off, as I recall (seem to remember they were paying him the minimum due to offset language)

Castilla was an early season DFA by the Devil Rays...Astros picked him up for the league minimum.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Reuben on June 28, 2017, 03:08:53 pm
Castilla was an early season DFA by the Devil Rays...Astros picked him up for the league minimum.
Sending Chris Truby back to New Orleans.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Knoxbanedoodle on July 05, 2017, 04:22:58 pm
Can anyone imagine winning the 1999 division title without Matt "Pornstache" Mieske?

Mieske was clutch. Resembled Mario, no? (If Mario did porns.)
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Duman on July 11, 2017, 09:51:15 am



* Six, the jury is still out on: (Jacob Nottingham, Daniel Mengden, Josh Hader, Adrian Houser, Brett Phillips and Domingo Santana)



It may be too early to say but the fact that Santana is having a good season, Hader is being effective out of the pen and Phillips got a call up means that trade is looking ugly. 
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Tonywatson on July 11, 2017, 02:52:37 pm
That trade has NEVER looked anything but ugly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BlownRanger on July 11, 2017, 03:32:30 pm
It may be too early to say but the fact that Santana is having a good season, Hader is being effective out of the pen and Phillips got a call up means that trade is looking ugly.

It probably doesn't change the consensus, but those players listed were from both the Kazmir and the Gomez/Fiers trades.  And the Astros might very well have missed out on valuable post-season experience without those trades.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 11, 2017, 03:42:49 pm
It probably doesn't change the consensus, but those players listed were from both the Kazmir and the Gomez/Fiers trades.  And the Astros might very well have missed out on valuable post-season experience without those trades.

I agree. Those trades helped us reach the playoffs, and Kazmir pitched well at KC. I do not regret losing those minor leaguers.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Mr. Happy on July 11, 2017, 05:20:38 pm
It probably doesn't change the consensus, but those players listed were from both the Kazmir and the Gomez/Fiers trades.  And the Astros might very well have missed out on valuable post-season experience without those trades.

+1
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Reuben on July 11, 2017, 05:59:42 pm
I thought the Kazmir trade was a good one even though he didn't pitch great afterwards. The Gomez/Fiers deal seemed like an overpay at the time and looks even worse now (based on Gomez' suckitude, not the prospects' performance). But it's true that they might've barely missed the playoffs without Fiers and, to a much lesser degree, Gomez.

Missing the playoffs after being in first place for so long that year would've been a huge bummer.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 11, 2017, 06:47:28 pm
I thought the Kazmir trade was a good one even though he didn't pitch great afterwards. The Gomez/Fiers deal seemed like an overpay at the time and looks even worse now (based on Gomez' suckitude, not the prospects' performance). But it's true that they might've barely missed the playoffs without Fiers and, to a much lesser degree, Gomez.

Missing the playoffs after being in first place for so long that year would've been a huge bummer.

Gomez was not terrible that year, but he was not the All Star run producer we thought he was. Luhnow liked Fiers, and he helped. Was the Randy Johnson deal overpay? I do not worry about that stuff.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Knoxbanedoodle on July 11, 2017, 08:36:49 pm
Gomez's homer in the Wild Card game was a big deal.

Much more can be said, obviously, but that's true.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: juliogotay on July 11, 2017, 08:53:27 pm
Gomez was not terrible that year, but he was not the All Star run producer we thought he was. Luhnow liked Fiers, and he helped. Was the Randy Johnson deal overpay? I do not worry about that stuff.

I'm pretty sure you've posted that Martes and Tucker should be untouchable. No?
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Duman on July 11, 2017, 09:14:57 pm
It probably doesn't change the consensus, but those players listed were from both the Kazmir and the Gomez/Fiers trades.  And the Astros might very well have missed out on valuable post-season experience without those trades.

My list just included the Gomez/Fiers trade.  That trade has replaced the Huff trade as the worst one to me.  Not that it shouldn't have been made, it just didn't work out and may have long lasting benefit for the Brewers.  Not sure how much it actually hurts the Astros.  I wouldn't take Santana or Phillips over Fisher or Tucker.  Hader may wind up being the biggest loss. 

The Kazmir trade looks fine.  Nottingham hasn't been as good since the trade and Mengden made the show but would just be AAA depth with the Astros. 
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 11, 2017, 10:59:50 pm
I'm pretty sure you've posted that Martes and Tucker should be untouchable. No?

Not Martes. I have said that about Tucker, but I'll amend it to allow for who we might get. This is a win now year. The hell with two years from now.

Who would you give up for deGrom?

ETA: this is a different year...more like '98 than 2015. If there is a difference maker we can get, the good minor leaguers have to go. That is the reason to have good drafts.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 11, 2017, 11:05:06 pm
My list just included the Gomez/Fiers trade.  That trade has replaced the Huff trade as the worst one to me.  Not that it shouldn't have been made, it just didn't work out and may have long lasting benefit for the Brewers.  Not sure how much it actually hurts the Astros.  I wouldn't take Santana or Phillips over Fisher or Tucker.  Hader may wind up being the biggest loss. 

The Kazmir trade looks fine.  Nottingham hasn't been as good since the trade and Mengden made the show but would just be AAA depth with the Astros.

That trade did not hurt the Astros, no matter how good the guys we traded ultimately do. We made the playoffs and laid the foundation for this year.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: MusicMan on July 12, 2017, 08:19:19 am
Not Martes. I have said that about Tucker, but I'll amend it to allow for who we might get. This is a win now year. The hell with two years from now.

Who would you give up for deGrom?

ETA: this is a different year...more like '98 than 2015. If there is a difference maker we can get, the good minor leaguers have to go. That is the reason to have good drafts.

I just saw FanGraphs trade value rankings this morning. DeGrom was #37.

#38 was Bregman.

If the Mets offered me DeGrom for Bregman, I'd do the deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 12, 2017, 08:28:11 am
I just saw FanGraphs trade value rankings this morning. DeGrom was #37.

#38 was Bregman.

If the Mets offered me DeGrom for Bregman, I'd do the deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, I would also. They need a 3B too, right? They likely will want more, but I think he could be a difference maker. Am I wrong?
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Mr. Happy on July 12, 2017, 09:08:45 am
Luhnow et al. have a demonstrated record of success in the draft, which ensures a steady pipeline of players. This indeed is a win now year. I'd be willing to mortgage the farm with the expectation that good talent continues to bubble up. If it takes Tucker, so be it. Fisher too. Throw in Martes and Bregman.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: GreatBagwellsBeard on July 12, 2017, 09:22:23 am
Luhnow et al. have a demonstrated record of success in the draft, which ensures a steady pipeline of players. This indeed is a win now year. I'd be willing to mortgage the farm with the expectation that good talent continues to bubble up. If it takes Tucker, so be it. Fisher too. Throw in Martes and Bregman.

Tucker only strikes me as "untouchable" because eventually there's going to be a salary logjam:  the likelihood that we can sign Correa, Altuve, and Springer ALL to long-term megadeals (to say nothing of the pitchers) is exceedingly slim.  So if there's at least one potential star position player and one potential star pitcher left after we clear out the cupboard, that's what I'm keeping in mind.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 12, 2017, 09:36:57 am
Tucker only strikes me as "untouchable" because eventually there's going to be a salary logjam:  the likelihood that we can sign Correa, Altuve, and Springer ALL to long-term megadeals (to say nothing of the pitchers) is exceedingly slim.  So if there's at least one potential star position player and one potential star pitcher left after we clear out the cupboard, that's what I'm keeping in mind.

I am not as pessimistic, but you are probably correct. I think there are five core players to sign to big deals if Crane wants a chance at a dynasty--the three position players you mentioned plus Kuechel and McCullers. I think no prospect (or Bregman) is untouchable today because the first half has put us in a win now position.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Navin R Johnson on July 12, 2017, 09:40:46 am
I'd amend things to say this is a win, the next 3 years deal.  All of Correa, Altuve, Springer, Lance McCullers Yuli, Bregman, Reddick, Giles, are "cheap" for the next 3 years.    If they are giving up top line players prospects (Bregman, Tucker) then Im hoping they get someone under control for several years, like the Rangers got with Hammels.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: jbm on July 12, 2017, 09:41:00 am
Tucker only strikes me as "untouchable" because eventually there's going to be a salary logjam:  the likelihood that we can sign Correa, Altuve, and Springer ALL to long-term megadeals (to say nothing of the pitchers) is exceedingly slim.  So if there's at least one potential star position player and one potential star pitcher left after we clear out the cupboard, that's what I'm keeping in mind.

Totally agree.  I've been wondering a lot about this lately.  I won't be surprised if Crane and company eventually end up with a big payroll, maybe even top five, but I can't imagine they will ever become the Yankees.  Given that, Luhnow has to factor that reality into his decisions.

   
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: juliogotay on July 12, 2017, 09:41:34 am
Not Martes. I have said that about Tucker, but I'll amend it to allow for who we might get. This is a win now year. The hell with two years from now.

Who would you give up for deGrom?

ETA: this is a different year...more like '98 than 2015. If there is a difference maker we can get, the good minor leaguers have to go. That is the reason to have good drafts.

A while back I had Tucker and Martes as Untouchables but I've softened on Martes simply because it appears that there is good pitching depth in the minors with Armenteros, Franklin Perez and Whitley is looking real good. I still hold hopes of keeping Tucker because his ceiling seems so damn high.  I would start with a DeGrom offer of Martes, Bregman and Fisher. J.D. Davis could probably step into Bregman's spot next year and not skip a beat. Until then Marwin can get some starts and maybe look at Moran on a platoon basis.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: jbm on July 12, 2017, 09:43:42 am
J.D. Davis could probably step into Bregman's spot next year and not skip a beat. Until then Marwin can get some starts and maybe look at Moran on a platoon basis.
I'm not saying Bregman is some core piece, but this is crazy talk, imo.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Navin R Johnson on July 12, 2017, 09:45:11 am
A while back I had Tucker and Martes as Untouchables but I've softened on Martes simply because it appears that there is good pitching depth in the minors with Armenteros, Franklin Perez and Whitley is looking real good. I still hold hopes of keeping Tucker because his ceiling seems so damn high.  I would start with a DeGrom offer of Martes, Bregman and Fisher. J.D. Davis could probably step into Bregman's spot next year and not skip a beat. Until then Marwin can get some starts and maybe look at Moran on a platoon basis.

You could also move Yuli to his natural position, 3rd base, in that scenario.   
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: juliogotay on July 12, 2017, 09:45:51 am
Tucker only strikes me as "untouchable" because eventually there's going to be a salary logjam:  the likelihood that we can sign Correa, Altuve, and Springer ALL to long-term megadeals (to say nothing of the pitchers) is exceedingly slim.  So if there's at least one potential star position player and one potential star pitcher left after we clear out the cupboard, that's what I'm keeping in mind.

I think Tucker is a special talent.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BlownRanger on July 12, 2017, 09:57:27 am
I'm not saying Bregman is some core piece, but this is crazy talk, imo.

I agree; it's way too early to put Bregman and Davis in the same boat.  But Bregman is an interesting case.  I would say his career ceiling remains somewhere between Daniel Murphy and Geoff Blum.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: juliogotay on July 12, 2017, 10:14:05 am
I'm not saying Bregman is some core piece, but this is crazy talk, imo.

OK, it probably is misguided after I've thought about it.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: WVastro on July 12, 2017, 10:53:08 am
I'm not saying Bregman is some core piece, but this is crazy talk, imo.

I don't want any position player that's been on the 25 man all year traded. Don't mess with the chemistry of this team.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: juliogotay on July 12, 2017, 11:00:14 am
I don't want any position player that's been on the 25 man all year traded. Don't mess with the chemistry of this team.

Probably good advice.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BudGirl on July 12, 2017, 11:12:48 am
I don't want any position player that's been on the 25 man all year traded. Don't mess with the chemistry of this team.

adding a traded player will mess with the chemistry of the team. 
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: geezerdonk on July 12, 2017, 11:21:07 am
Not sure about deGrom. He has post season experience and a few years of club control left. But his ERA, WHIP, FIP and HRs are all up this year and the Mets are going to want the sun and the moon for him. I wonder how he is in the clubhouse.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 12, 2017, 12:12:00 pm
Seriously, people. Win now. I would trade Bregman in a heartbeat for a difference maker if there is one, and I trust Luhnow to tell us who is. This team needs pitching to win big in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 12, 2017, 12:27:57 pm
adding a traded player will mess with the chemistry of the team.

Correa and Kuechel have commented publicly on the need for a trade. Any player who comes here will be thrilled with the chance to win and will not rock the boat. We simply cannot and should not stand pat.

Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: MusicMan on July 12, 2017, 12:33:52 pm
Seriously, people. Win now. I would trade Bregman in a heartbeat for a difference maker if there is one, and I trust Luhnow to tell us who is. This team needs pitching to win big in the playoffs.

Bingo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 12, 2017, 12:42:31 pm
Bingo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last night is a good example. Aces shut down hitters. Our Big Three were 0 for the game.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: WVastro on July 12, 2017, 01:01:39 pm
Last night is a good example. Aces shut down hitters. Our Big Three were 0 for the game.

If an ace of that caliber becomes available then sure! A Darvish or deGrom, ok. But I'm not enthused about giving away such a return for what's available at the moment. I haven't seen any names that I'd give Bregman up for. But you're right. Luhnow knows what he's doing and I'd certainly trust his judgement over mine. If he thinks Quintana is the answer I'll be excited about it.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BudGirl on July 12, 2017, 01:11:40 pm
Correa and Kuechel have commented publicly on the need for a trade. Any player who comes here will be thrilled with the chance to win and will not rock the boat. We simply cannot and should not stand pat.



How excited would you be to be traded to the Astros?  I think whoever comes is going to fit in just fine.

I think if the Astros stand pat it is because Luhnow did not get a deal that would make the team better.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: MusicMan on July 12, 2017, 01:16:46 pm
Last night is a good example. Aces shut down hitters. Our Big Three were 0 for the game.

Most of them from the pen... just like last year's WS. If Luhnow chose to get one more arm in the pen I certainly wouldn't object.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 12, 2017, 01:18:13 pm

How excited would you be to be traded to the Astros?  I think whoever comes is going to fit in just fine.

I think if the Astros stand pat it is because Luhnow did not get a deal that would make the team better.

Agreed 100%
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BlownRanger on July 12, 2017, 01:25:58 pm
Most of them from the pen... just like last year's WS. If Luhnow chose to get one more arm in the pen I certainly wouldn't object.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Most of the time, I think the guys on Sirius/XM MLB are just talking out their ass, but they're currently saying that Brad Hand to Houston just makes too much sense not to happen.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: MusicMan on July 12, 2017, 01:31:45 pm
Most of the time, I think the guys on Sirius/XM MLB are just talking out their ass, but they're currently saying that Brad Hand to Houston just makes too much sense not to happen.

I'm certain in advance we'd be overpaying. I'm fine with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 12, 2017, 01:51:11 pm
I'm certain in advance we'd be overpaying. I'm fine with that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Setup man, good stats, LHP, unorthodox delivery

are there better ones on a seller team?
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: MusicMan on July 12, 2017, 02:20:13 pm
Setup man, good stats, LHP, unorthodox delivery

are there better ones on a seller team?

Not that I've seen. Relievers come out of nowhere and drop back to that pretty quickly, and Hand is no exception. That's why I feel we'd be overpaying. But given the need and the opportunity, I don't mind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: MikeyBoy on July 12, 2017, 02:37:54 pm
Setup man, good stats, LHP, unorthodox delivery

are there better ones on a seller team?

Selfishly, I would like to see the Astros get a buddy of mine,  Donnie Hart, from the Orioles. He is 26 and only in his second year in the Majors. Lefty, three quarter arm slot, which makes him effective against lefties, but he also gets righties out, too. He is from Katy and would love to pitch for the Astros and  would come pretty cheap I would think. Career 1.90 ERA, 51 career outings.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BlownRanger on July 12, 2017, 02:39:28 pm
Not that I've seen. Relievers come out of nowhere and drop back to that pretty quickly, and Hand is no exception. That's why I feel we'd be overpaying. But given the need and the opportunity, I don't mind.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm dealing from memory here, but I believe Hand is making about 1.7 M, and Houston would have him at least through 2018.  I'm not sure what quantifies overpaying, and deadline deals are always expensive, but it's worth noting that the Cubs picked up Wade Davis last season for only Jorge Soler, straight up.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BudGirl on July 12, 2017, 02:40:50 pm
It seems as though there are more buyers than sellers this year, i think that is going cause the prices to increase.  Good year for a team to suck and improve through a trade.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: MusicMan on July 12, 2017, 03:05:37 pm
I'm dealing from memory here, but I believe Hand is making about 1.7 M, and Houston would have him at least through 2018.  I'm not sure what quantifies overpaying, and deadline deals are always expensive, but it's worth noting that the Cubs picked up Wade Davis last season for only Jorge Soler, straight up.

Padres are said to be looking for a package comparable to what Yanks got for Chapman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BlownRanger on July 12, 2017, 03:06:11 pm
I'm dealing from memory here, but I believe Hand is making about 1.7 M, and Houston would have him at least through 2018.  I'm not sure what quantifies overpaying, and deadline deals are always expensive, but it's worth noting that the Cubs picked up Wade Davis last season for only Jorge Soler, straight up.

Here are accurate numbers.  Hand is making 1.375 M, and is eligible for arbitration after this season.  Whoever picks him up will control him through 2019.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: BlownRanger on July 12, 2017, 03:12:31 pm
Padres are said to be looking for a package comparable to what Yanks got for Chapman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's insane.  If that's true, it sounds like the Padres want to keep him, but want to be able to say "we tried to get better".
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: jaklewein on July 12, 2017, 03:18:31 pm
That's insane.  If that's true, it sounds like the Padres want to keep him, but want to be able to say "we tried to get better".

No, what is insane is that they picked him up off waivers, IIRC.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 12, 2017, 03:25:46 pm
Padres are said to be looking for a package comparable to what Yanks got for Chapman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hand is not Chapman. I hope we say no.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: das on July 12, 2017, 03:35:41 pm
Padres are said to be looking for a package comparable to what Yanks got for Chapman.

Of coarse they are but that is crazy talk. They are two completely different caliber of player.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 12, 2017, 04:03:05 pm
Selfishly, I would like to see the Astros get a buddy of mine,  Donnie Hart, from the Orioles. He is 26 and only in his second year in the Majors. Lefty, three quarter arm slot, which makes him effective against lefties, but he also gets righties out, too. He is from Katy and would love to pitch for the Astros and  would come pretty cheap I would think. Career 1.90 ERA, 51 career outings.

Has his agent called Luhnow?
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: NeilT on July 12, 2017, 04:14:19 pm
Has his agent called Luhnow?

Does he need an agent?  I think Jim could do a good job.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: geezerdonk on July 12, 2017, 04:24:05 pm
Acknowledging that the BBGs retain a veto, it is reasonable to assume that the Astros will make the playoffs. As has been pointed out, they are not going to bash their way into the World Series; they are going to have to pitch their way. In order to have even a chance of success, they will need at a minimum (a) two lights out, shut down, top of the rotation aces that can give them at least seven innings and (b) one lights out, shut down closer. As of now, they have zero of the three requirements on the active roster. There might be one in Keuchel if he returns to earlier form. There might be another in McCullers if he can get through the first inning and then on into the seventh. This year and for his career McCullers is averaging 5.7 innings per start.There might be the third in Giles if he wasn't Giles. Without significant acquisitions, the Astros post season prospects are not rosy unless the absolute best case scenario plays out, Crossing your fingers and hoping for the best is not good strategy but are there any ace starters and/or ace relievers that are reasonably available?
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: WVastro on July 12, 2017, 04:51:30 pm
As far as starters I'd give up the farm for that are currently on teams that *might* no longer be in contention at the deadline:

Carlos Martinez
Jacob deGrom
Yu Darvish

That's off the top of my head. Anybody have some other names?
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 12, 2017, 05:46:27 pm
Does he need an agent?  I think Jim could do a good job.

Mikey maybe. I do not know him.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: MusicMan on July 12, 2017, 05:47:00 pm
As far as starters I'd give up the farm for that are currently on teams that *might* no longer be in contention at the deadline:

Carlos Martinez
Jacob deGrom
Yu Darvish

That's off the top of my head. Anybody have some other names?

MadBum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Reuben on July 12, 2017, 06:32:04 pm
As far as starters I'd give up the farm for that are currently on teams that *might* no longer be in contention at the deadline:

Carlos Martinez
Jacob deGrom
Yu Darvish

That's off the top of my head. Anybody have some other names?
Darvish is a FA after this season. No fucking way do I want to see the Astros give the Rangers a big haul for two months of any player.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: WVastro on July 12, 2017, 07:29:36 pm
Would the Co-ards take Bregman (I don't like the thought of trading him), Martes, Fisher (+lottery ticket) for Carlos Martinez? They have a  need at shortstop and the outfield... or should I up my meds?
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: hostros7 on July 12, 2017, 07:35:23 pm
MadBum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is my "bunk scenario."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: doyce7 on July 12, 2017, 08:05:17 pm
MadBum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
If the giants really make him available, and that's a big if. They can have Bregman and then take their pick of any players in the farm system.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: moriartp on July 12, 2017, 08:06:44 pm
This is my "bunk scenario."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Donaldson-Stroman megadeal for me.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Reuben on July 12, 2017, 08:17:47 pm
Would the Co-ards take Bregman (I don't like the thought of trading him), Martes, Fisher (+lottery ticket) for Carlos Martinez? They have a  need at shortstop and the outfield... or should I up my meds?
I don't see the Cardinals and Luhnow making any deals with each other any time soon, if ever.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: doyce7 on July 12, 2017, 08:20:05 pm
Donaldson-Stroman megadeal for me.
I mean I guess we could just give them the hooks + Bregman

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: MusicMan on July 12, 2017, 08:45:45 pm
This is my "bunk scenario."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey, whatever works for you. Some folks think about baseball to distract from that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Duke on July 13, 2017, 07:41:40 am
I don't see the Cardinals and Luhnow making any deals with each other any time soon, if ever.

Plus they are only 5.5 games back.  The season ain't over for the turds.
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: Lefty on July 13, 2017, 10:10:14 pm
Donaldson-Stroman megadeal for me.
Stroman-Osuna
Title: Re: Astros In-Season Trade History
Post by: JimR on July 14, 2017, 06:57:12 am
Stroman-Osuna

Osuna presently is a head case off the field. Stroman looked like one on the field, but I'll take him.