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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: Bench on June 16, 2015, 10:17:18 am
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This ought to be fun. (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/sports/baseball/st-louis-cardinals-hack-astros-fbi.html?smid%3D=tw-nytsports&_r=1)
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Right now, this tops Bill.
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Investigators believe Cardinals officials, concerned that Mr. Luhnow had taken their idea and proprietary baseball information to the Astros, examined a master list of passwords used by Mr. Luhnow and the other officials who had joined the Astros when they worked for the Cardinals. The Cardinals officials are believed to have used those passwords to gain access to the Astros’ network, law enforcement officials said.
You could probably get pretty rich thinking of an practical alternative to passwords.
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best hackers in baseball.
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I guess this explains the leaks.
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So do the unwritten rules say we have to hack them back, or throw at them?
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So do the unwritten rules say we have to hack them back, or throw at them?
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The Cardinal Way... What a bunch of tools.
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Twitter is wonderful right now.
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So do the unwritten rules say we have to hack them back, or throw the book at them?
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FIFY
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Twitter is wonderful right now.
I like Jazayerli's "You can't spell 'BFIB' without "FBI'"
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I like Jayzerli's "You can't spell 'BFIB' without "FBI'"
Bravo. Best in class thus far.
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@seangentille: The Cardinals wouldn’t have been able to do this without some high-quality internet. Yes, they have the best LANs in baseball.
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When will moderate Cardinals fans condemn these actions??!!!!
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You could probably get pretty rich thinking of an practical alternative to passwords.
I'm just amazed that they would be that sloppy to reuse (or, at the minimum, use similar) passwords. They should know better.
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I'm just amazed that they would be that sloppy to reuse (or, at the minimum, use similar) passwords. They should know better.
Luhnow needs to expand the advanced metrics game to password generation.
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Twitter is wonderful right now.
Check out @bestfansstlouis if you want to vomit.
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When will moderate Cardinals fans condemn these actions??!!!!
Many are. One has gone as far as to call it "Black Sox Part II". Which is a little overreacting. More like Deflategate.
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You can't spell Cardinals without scandal (https://twitter.com/northboundlane/status/610836792695214080)
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Many are. One has gone as far as to call it "Black Sox Part II". Which is a little overreacting. More like Deflategate.
Deflategate didn't involve federal crimes.
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I heard that there are some lawyers around here, so I have a question: If the Cards had found any proprietary information on the Astros' computers, how would they use it? It can't be admissible in court, right?
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Deflategate didn't involve federal crimes.
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Well, neither did the Black Sox, but I was thinking more in terms of affecting the integrity of the outcome of games.
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There is a simple explanation for all this:
https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CHogpqoWoAA9Py3.mp4
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"And we would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for your pesky kids!"
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I'm having trouble processing the stupid involved on all sides of this. First, as has been mentioned, Luhnow and company apparently recycled passwords They used with the Jakes. Then the equally brilliant minds in St Louis use those passwords to access GC from a traceable IP address that is tied to the home of one of these morans. THEN, instead of just logging on to GC every now and then to see what Houston is up to they leak the shit to Deadspin or whoever it was and blow the cover on the whole deal.
You could round up a bunch of fourteen year olds to do a better job on any component of this thing.
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Goddamn fucking Cardinals. Now we're going to have to come up with a new nickname for them.
I don't know whether to be outraged or amused. More amused, I think, because whatever information they got probably isn't useful anymore. But as this thing develops, the potential for hilarity at the Jakes' expense is sky-high.
Cheating motherfuckers. The Best Felons in Baseball.
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I heard that there are some lawyers around here, so I have a question: If the Cards had found any proprietary information on the Astros' computers, how would they use it? It can't be admissible in court, right?
They could use it the same way any nefarious organization would use its competitor's improperly gained proprietary data. I don't understand the admissibility question.
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a traceable IP address that is tied to the home of one of these morans.
That's gold, right there.
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I'm having trouble processing the stupid involved on all sides of this. First, as has been mentioned, Luhnow and company apparently recycled passwords They used with the Jakes. Then the equally brilliant minds in St Louis use those passwords to access GC from a traceable IP address that is tied to the home of one of these morans. THEN, instead of just logging on to GC every now and then to see what Houston is up to they leak the shit to Deadspin or whoever it was and blow the cover on the whole deal.
You could round up a bunch of fourteen year olds to do a better job on any component of this thing.
Wasn't there an issue a few years back when Bo Porter didn't change the play calling signs when he came over from the Nationals?
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They could use it the same way any nefarious organization would use its competitor's improperly gained proprietary data. I don't understand the admissibility question.
Think he was assuming they would want to pursue a claim that Luhnow stole proprietary information from the Co-ards.
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Wasn't there an issue a few years back when Bo Porter didn't change the play calling signs when he came over from the Nationals?
Sally's big titties hang down to her belt!
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Think he was assuming they would want to pursue a claim that Luhnow stole proprietary information from the Co-ards.
Exactly.
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Think he was assuming they would want to pursue a claim that Luhnow stole proprietary information from the Co-ards.
Oh. In that case, yeah, misappropriation of trade secrets by a former employee is a pretty common cause of action.
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Wasn't there an issue a few years back when Bo Porter didn't change the play calling signs when he came over from the Nationals?
If you've been doing belt bunt and shirt steal your whole life you go try to change that and see how confusing it is, are you kidding me?
He's probably still using the same Inspiration Wheel in Atlanta.
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Oh. In that case, yeah, misappropriation of trade secrets by a former employee is a pretty common cause of action.
How would hacked information help you?
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Exactly.
If the data is still proprietary and the former employer wants to keep it that way, they can use protective orders and sealed exhibits to be able to use that information in court proceedings without disclosing it to the pubic.
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Goddamn fucking Cardinals. Now we're going to have to come up with a new nickname for them.
The Hack Wilsons
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How would hacked information help you?
A simple example is an employee taking his former employer's customer list and knowledge of the former employer's pricing to a different company and using that information to lure away the original company's customers.
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Many are. One has gone as far as to call it "Black Sox Part II". Which is a little overreacting. More like Deflategate.
Deflating footballs = illegal breach and possible violation of criminal fraud and abuse act where federal prison time may be in play?!? Um, no...
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A simple example is an employee taking his former employer's customer list and knowledge of the former employer's pricing to a different company and using that information to lure away the original company's customers.
Bench - he's asking what's the point of hacking if you can't use that information as proof in pursuing such a claim.
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Deflating footballs = illegal breach and possible violation of criminal fraud and abuse act where federal prison time may be in play?!? Um, no...
Kind of like a pitcher scuffing a baseball? Really?
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Bench - he's asking what's the point of hacking if you can't use that information as proof in pursuing such a claim.
Forget it...he's got his lawyerin' rolling.
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Bench - he's asking what's the point of hacking if you can't use that information as proof in pursuing such a claim.
I don't see why one couldn't use that information as proof in pursuing a claim. It would be impossible to do so without it.
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How would hacked information help you?
I'll take "It could be leaked to Deadspin in efforts to damage and/or embarrass ones competitors... " for $200, Alex...
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Is this a hangin' crime? It seems a lot like horse stealing to me.
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Kind of like a pitcher scuffing a baseball? Really?
Scuffing baseballs = illegal breach and possible violation of criminal fraud and abuse act where federal prison time may be in play?!? Um, no (again)...
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I don't see why one couldn't use that information as proof in pursuing a claim. It would be impossible to do so without it.
Illegally obtained?
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I'll take "It could be leaked to Deadspin in efforts to damage and/or embarrass ones competitors... " for $200, Alex...
Leaking e-mails might be a side benefit, but presumably you wouldn't want to leak the Cardinal-owned stuff.
Maybe you just want to show that someone has access to those systems, so make Luhnow want to erase all the old Card stuff to be safe.
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Illegally obtained?
Oh, I see. I guess the idea would be that they wanted to confirm that their data was taken and use that knowledge to legally obtain evidence of it.
It's pretty clear this wasn't the work of a mastermind.
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Another theory, I'm guess they saw something Luhnow did and wanted to make sure they could catch something if they went legally fishing.
But maybe they just have some stupid jerks in their IT office who got off on hacking the Astros system.
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Another theory, I'm guess they saw something Luhnow did and wanted to make sure they could catch something if they went legally fishing.
But maybe they just have some stupid jerks in their IT office who got off on hacking the Astros system.
I think the primary motivation was personal animosity for Luhnow and those that went with him.
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PLEASE tell me LaGenius and/or Sexy Bitch were somehow involved.
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I think the primary motivation was personal animosity for Luhnow and those that went with him.
Whatever the motivation, the FBI is in the front office now. And it couldn't happen to a better bunch. I hope the punishment is that they have to go to the AL West and we come back to the NL Central. Oh, and their draft picks for the next 10 years.
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Scuffing baseballs = illegal breach and possible violation of criminal fraud and abuse act where federal prison time may be in play?!? Um, no (again)...
Sorry, I don't think a pitcher should go to federal pound me in the ass prison for scuffing a baseball. Just my opinion.
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Whatever the motivation, the FBI is in the front office now. And it couldn't happen to a better bunch. I hope the punishment is that they have to go to the AL West and we come back to the NL Central. Oh, and their draft picks for the next 10 years.
Cardinals MLB Best @BigPhil870: (https://twitter.com/BigPhil870/status/610835361372205056) "So, teams can't compete with @Cardinals so they send the FBI to investigate them? Classic cowards."
That's so great.
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Sorry, I don't think a pitcher should go to federal pound me in the ass prison for scuffing a baseball. Just my opinion.
OSF is saying they aren't equivalent either. "Deflategate" is similar to scuffing a baseball. Corporate espionage is not.
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OSF is saying they aren't equivalent either. "Deflategate" is similar to scuffing a baseball. Corporate espionage is not.
I get the federal crime aspect. I'm saying that in terms of affecting the outcome of games, this is closer to deflating or scuffing than it is to conspiring to purposefully lose them in a gambling scheme.
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OSF is saying they aren't equivalent either. "Deflategate" is similar to scuffing a baseball. Corporate espionage is not.
This
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St. Louis Post Dispatch has a collection of Twitter comments posted - it's failrly entertaining... LINK (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/twitter-wonders-if-hacking-is-the-cardinal-way/html_1fda8f29-46ff-5f8e-a8bb-64e70ecedef5.html)
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this is what people think of cowboys fans, don't they? (https://www.facebook.com/SportsCenter/posts/1156980407654133?comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22O%22%7D) I would like to believe I behave better than that.
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The Hack Wilsons
I like it.
And, I assume if all this ends up in some Federal court, they'll become the Fifth-inals.
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It's pretty clear this wasn't the work of a mastermind.
From the Times:
The intrusion did not appear to be sophisticated...
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Twitter is full of idiots who don't seem to have noticed that the Astros are no longer in the same division as the Jakes. Like this genius (@BigPhil870):
So, teams can't compete with @Cardinals so they send the FBI to investigate them? Classic cowards.
But if the Astros are cowards does that make the Jakes co-wards?
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I get the federal crime aspect. I'm saying that in terms of affecting the outcome of games, this is closer to deflating or scuffing than it is to conspiring to purposefully lose them in a gambling scheme.
I wonder if they used knowledge of the Astros' interactivity with other teams to derail or affect trades?
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Orange is the new red.
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I like it.
And, I assume if all this ends up in some Federal court, they'll become the Fifth-inals.
This is good. I thought about Jailbirds, but that's too obvious. Maybe Cardinal is the New Black.
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I put the Cards game on MLB.tv just to see what their guys on there would say about it. Top of the first just ended, and so far, not a peep about it.
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I put the Cards game on MLB.tv just to see what their guys on there would say about it. Top of the first just ended, and so far, not a peep about it.
I'm guessing they were told not to talk about it
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I'm guessing they were told not to talk about it
Might be. I'm just as curious if Brown and Ashby talk about it. I wonder if MLB itself has told them not to talk about it.
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Might be. I'm just as curious if Brown and Ashby talk about it. I wonder if MLB itself has told them not to talk about it.
I think this may be the case. Mlb network brought it up just long enough to give the club's and mlbs statements and moved on
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Deadspin Rant (LINK (http://deadspin.com/eat-shit-cardinals-1711726377?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow))
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I wonder if they used knowledge of the Astros' interactivity with other teams to derail or affect trades?
I'm curious about this (and similar impact) as well.
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Deadspin Rant (LINK (http://deadspin.com/eat-shit-cardinals-1711726377?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow))
There's quite a bit of greatness here but I'll highlight just this:
"We identify as Amish!"
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There's quite a bit of greatness here but I'll highlight just this:
"We identify as Amish!"
I'm enjoying "Schadenfreude Christmas", too.
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Is this a hangin' crime? It seems a lot like horse stealing to me.
This falls into the category of "they catch them so rarely that when they do they slam them hard to make an example for the rest"
Guy from Silk Road got life, after all.
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I think this may be the case. Mlb network brought it up just long enough to give the club's and mlbs statements and moved on
Brownie is talking about it.
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Brownie is talking about it.
Yeah, guess it's not an mlb thing
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Brownie is talking about it.
Not being a Cardinal fan, Brownie doesn't realize how rude that is.
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Not being a Cardinal fan, Brownie doesn't realize how rude that is.
or maybe he is trying to set Ashby up to get fired.
i do wish i could listen to JD talk about it though.
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From Gas House to Chain Gang.
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There's quite a bit of greatness here but I'll highlight just this:
"We identify as Amish!"
" ... the St. Louis Cardinals—the sports equivalent of the Duggar clan ... "
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From Gas House to Chain Gang.
Nice.
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Check out @bestfansstlouis if you want to vomit.
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I love the one that said (basically), "Even if the Cardinals did it, they're still a class organization!" So, illegally hacking another team and disseminating private information is the sign of a class organization? I bet they defended the Patriots too.
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" ... the St. Louis Cardinals—the sports equivalent of the Duggar clan ... "
I spit my chai tea latte when i read that.
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"Let's see....password1 Nope.
12345....nope.
larussasux....BINGO!"
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That's gold, right there.
Possibly a reference to this old Fark cliche involving the BFiB? http://fark.wikia.com/wiki/File:Getabrain.jpg
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Possibly a reference to this old Fark cliche involving the BFiB? http://fark.wikia.com/wiki/File:Getabrain.jpg
Nothing gets by you, Holmes.
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From a Co-ards friend of mine:
"When this franchise hacks your data, they do it with great respect for your secrets and then applaud your data once it's been hacked."
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lost draft picks big fines...as long as they get screwed in the end literally
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From a Co-ards friend of mine:
"When this franchise hacks your data, they do it with great respect for your secrets and then applaud your data once it's been hacked."
That's the "Cardinal Way". It's right behind "get drunk then drive" in the club's operations manual.
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This is awesome. Mrs Limey was watching one of her Real Housewives shows, and there was a new girl in there who was a trophy wife to some slimy douchebag. Just looking at him made me want to slap the ever lovin' shit out of him. Then, slowly, realization dawned on me. Wait...is that...oh fuck...it's that showboating piece of shit Jim Edmunds.
So this is perfect timing..
As to the relative nature of the alleged offenses: Luchnow et al stealing proprietary information and the Birds Behind the Wire hacking the Astros to find proof - the former is almost always handled in civil court as a breach of contract while the latter is a federal crime. Probably quite a few actually.
I've been around a few suits where a company goes after a former employee. You file suit, enforce discovery and - sensibly - settle out of court because the courts value the information at a far lower figure than the plaintiffs do. This was so simple to handle, and now people are going to go to prison. Federal - pound me in the ass - prison. I heard that Edmunds heard that, and offered to take the fall for it.
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Cardinals jersey (https://twitter.com/aaronnemo/status/610903144868921345)
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Cardinals jersey (https://twitter.com/aaronnemo/status/610903144868921345)
That's fantastic. I've got a few friends I need to send that to.
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I just can't believe the Astros didn't have some kind of Secure ID key fob or card type VPN log in. Fucking cavemen.
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I just can't believe the Astros didn't have some kind of Secure ID key fob or card type VPN log in. Fucking cavemen.
That was my immediate reaction, too: they let any schmoe from the net ping their servers? No VPN at all?
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The Cardinals have announced they're firing the hitting coach.
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I just can't believe the Astros didn't have some kind of Secure ID key fob or card type VPN log in. Fucking cavemen.
The next time the Jakes are at Minute Maid, the promo item should be a VPN key fob for every fan.
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That was my immediate reaction, too: they let any schmoe from the net ping their servers? No VPN at all?
Oh, they have VPN...it's just the exact same password as the Cardinals' VPN, and no they haven't changed it in the last 3 years </Sarcasm>
Actually, I bet teams are scrambling to ramp up security now that this is news. Actual password rotation, smart cards, RSA keyfobs, two-factor auth...I wouldn't mind being in on that consulting action!
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I posted a series preview a few years ago where I talked about my vasectomy, and how when the urologist was knuckle-deep in my junk, he mentioned that he was a Cardinals fan.
Now I know the truth. He hacked into my nutsack and stole all my draft picks!
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That was my immediate reaction, too: they let any schmoe from the net ping their servers? No VPN at all?
Dude. The Astros guys fucking re-used their old Co-ards passwords. The Co-ards kept trying down the list until they got a match. That's it. No one was pinging anything, no one was doing anything that my mother couldn't do.
username: luhnow
password: suck1tw@lt
You're in.
I still can't believe that these guys couldn't contain their glee and had to share it with the world. They're like the idiot that robs a store somewhere and posts pictures of his loot on Facebook. Worse, actually, because the Facebook idiot has the McMaynerberry PD hot on his trail but these Jake geniuses get to tangle with the FBI.
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I still can't believe that these guys couldn't contain their glee and had to share it with the world. They're like the idiot that robs a store somewhere and posts pictures of his loot on Facebook. Worse, actually, because the Facebook idiot has the McMaynerberry PD hot on his trail but these Jake geniuses get to tangle with the FBI.
Yep.
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Dude. The Astros guys fucking re-used their old Co-ards passwords. The Co-ards kept trying down the list until they got a match. That's it. No one was pinging anything, no one was doing anything that my mother couldn't do.
Some more info via Passan (Yahoo Sports): LINK (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-real-threat-for-cardinals-is-how-high-investigation-could-reach-191525747.html)
While the Astros’ security wasn’t strong, the source said, the breach involved more than taking old passwords from Houston general manager Jeff Luhnow’s days as Cardinals farm director and inputting them into a website.
There is also this tidbit:
One official familiar with the investigation told Yahoo Sports the FBI traced the breach back to a house in Jupiter, Fla., the city in which the Cardinals hold spring training. A number of Cardinals employees used the house, according to the official, perhaps complicating authorities' ability to pinpoint the alleged culprits. The assistant U.S. attorney handling the potential case in Houston is Michael Chu, whose areas of focus include computer hacking and intellectual property.
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Some more info via Passan (Yahoo Sports): LINK (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-real-threat-for-cardinals-is-how-high-investigation-could-reach-191525747.html)
While the Astros’ security wasn’t strong, the source said, the breach involved more than taking old passwords from Houston general manager Jeff Luhnow’s days as Cardinals farm director and inputting them into a website.
There is also this tidbit:
One official familiar with the investigation told Yahoo Sports the FBI traced the breach back to a house in Jupiter, Fla., the city in which the Cardinals hold spring training. A number of Cardinals employees used the house, according to the official, perhaps complicating authorities' ability to pinpoint the alleged culprits. The assistant U.S. attorney handling the potential case in Houston is Michael Chu, whose areas of focus include computer hacking and intellectual property.
Indict them all and rattle their cages until somebody flips. "First guy to accept our sweet, sweet plea bargain gets off easy, everybody else does serious time." And even if there's only one guy, MLB still gets to mete out some serious punishment to the club.
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every time it makes the news they have to hear the first place astros. imagine that turns a few stomachs
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Indict them all and rattle their cages until somebody flips. "First guy to accept our sweet, sweet plea bargain gets off easy, everybody else does serious time." And even if there's only one guy, MLB still gets to mete out some serious punishment to the club.
If it can be proven that they accessed medical records, you can throw HIPAA violations on to the list of offenses for the perpetrator(s). I would like to see MLB throw down a post-season ban, NCAA style, though I know the MLBPA would throw a fit if the players lost potential money due to the front office's actions. But, I'm sure the blame will eventually just settle on a lower-level staffer with nothing sticking up top, so the org will just face a fine and a black eye. Brandon McCarthy's idea could work, though:
Brandon McCarthy @BMcCarthy32 20h20 hours ago
in keeping with baseball tradition, a Houston exec should walk into the STL offices and hit their best front office guy with a fastball
Wonder what Crane throws these days.
ETA: Nolan would work, also.
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One official familiar with the investigation told Yahoo Sports the FBI traced the breach back to a house in Jupiter, Fla., the city in which the Cardinals hold spring training. A number of Cardinals employees used the house, according to the official, perhaps complicating authorities' ability to pinpoint the alleged culprits. The assistant U.S. attorney handling the potential case in Houston is Michael Chu, whose areas of focus include computer hacking and intellectual property.
Presumably the Cards will have to turn over laptops for all employees who were in that house, and any desktops kept there. The Feds will find who dunnit, or they'll find a bunch of erasures or attempts thereat. - which is tampering with evidence and obstruction of justice and typically treated with the harshest of available penalties.
The Joliet Jakes are probably in a world of hurt right now.
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Let's check in with the Astros' IT department (http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1731087/astros_medium.gif)
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ETA: Nolan would work, also.
Isn't Roger Clemens on the staff in some way as well?
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Isn't Roger Clemens on the staff in some way as well?
High pressure situation. Rajah would miss the target then explain that he was injured prior to the throw.
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What gets me is all the lame excuses that the Astros had nothing of value to hack so why would they? What a load of crock. They had tons of scouting information on not only top prospects for top picks and then information on players for trades. How is that value seen as nothing?
Plus, if they had Luhnow's password it does not give you the right to use it.
I need to stop reading the comments.
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High pressure situation. Rajah would miss the target then explain that he was injured prior to the throw.
Hire Hampton as a special assistant.
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What gets me is all the lame excuses that the Astros had nothing of value to hack so why would they? What a load of crock. They had tons of scouting information on not only top prospects for top picks and then information on players for trades. How is that value seen as nothing?
Plus, if they had Luhnow's password it does not give you the right to use it.
I need to stop reading the comments.
You and me both. I cannot fathom the mind of someone who defends the violator by insulting the violated.
Every now and then you get a view of the troll field and it just depresses the hell out of you.
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Rajah would miss the target then explain that he was injured prior to the throw.
At least he didn't blame it on a bleeding foot.
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Presumably the Cards will have to turn over laptops for all employees who were in that house, and any desktops kept there. The Feds will find who dunnit, or they'll find a bunch of erasures or attempts thereat. - which is tampering with evidence and obstruction of justice and typically treated with the harshest of available penalties.
The Joliet Jakes are probably in a world of hurt right now.
Computers were already requested and turned over (St. Louis Post-Dispatch (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/report-fbi-investigating-cardinals-for-hacking-astros-info/article_6b26c46b-edc4-5a9f-ab99-3373aada869b.html)): In late February, the FBI visited Busch Stadium and took computers as part of the investigation.
Additionally, there appear to have been multiple hacks (Chronicle (http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2015/06/16/cardinals-being-investigated-for-hacking-astros-computer-system/)): The Times quoted investigators as saying they have discovered evidence that Cardinals officials first broke into the Astros’ internal website in 2013. A second breach occurred in March of 2014, a source told the Chronicle.
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Let's check in with the Astros' IT department (http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1731087/astros_medium.gif)
I don't remember Villar ever wearing that uniform. JUST KIDDING.
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What gets me is all the lame excuses that the Astros had nothing of value to hack so why would they? What a load of crock. They had tons of scouting information on not only top prospects for top picks and then information on players for trades. How is that value seen as nothing?
Given that - by 2013 at least - the Astros' farm system would have given every GM in the league a boner, it makes perfect sense that you'd want to know everything you could about these prospects. If you wanted to know about the major league roster, you just had to set the VCR.
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Let's check in with the Astros' IT department (http://cdn0.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1731087/astros_medium.gif)
What that gif doesn't show is Temp of the Month August 2012 Brian Bogusevic's awesome throw from right field that would easily have nailed Bernadina (who had run right through Bo Porter's frantic yet apparently insufficiently inspirational stop sign) had it not sailed 35 feet over the head of whoever the hell they had catching by that time in the game.
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Dude. The Astros guys fucking re-used their old Co-ards passwords. The Co-ards kept trying down the list until they got a match. That's it. No one was pinging anything, no one was doing anything that my mother couldn't do
Oh well, that was a funny spin while it lasted.
Luhnow denies using old passwords, taking intellectual property: http://www.si.com/mlb/2015/06/18/jeff-luhnow-cardinals-astros-hacking-scandal
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Presumably the Cards will have to turn over laptops for all employees who were in that house, and any desktops kept there. The Feds will find who dunnit, or they'll find a bunch of erasures or attempts thereat. - which is tampering with evidence and obstruction of justice and typically treated with the harshest of available penalties.
The Joliet Jakes are probably in a world of hurt right now.
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This is accurate. It will not be particularly hard for the Fed forensics guys to figure out exactly who did what. The absolute worst thing the Cards staff involved could do right now is cover their tracks. Negative consequences ramp up very quickly for those that try to do so and, for the forensics guys, is about as hard to uncover as the kid stuffing brussel sprouts into his pockets at the dinner table.
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What gets me is all the lame excuses that the Astros had nothing of value to hack so why would they? What a load of crock. They had tons of scouting information on not only top prospects for top picks and then information on players for trades. How is that value seen as nothing?
Plus, if they had Luhnow's password it does not give you the right to use it.
I need to stop reading the comments.
What those people fail to understand is that privacy is the cornerstone of Federal laws and once that is violated or compromised in some form or fashion, it is a very serious situation. You cannot, and should not apply degrees to privacy because it then becomes a standard that can be altered for our society. Privacy is also very well protected in many societies in the world. Those of us involved in IT have been fully aware and trained that privacy is key and prosecution is harsh if violated.
Rationalization will help very little to lessen the severity. There is a documentary called "The Internet's Own Boy" that is chilling. If you watch this documentary, you keep hearing rationalization rather that sound legal defense against violation strict privacy laws. The end is tragic and saddens me to no end. Before anyone thinks it's cool to access private data, realize it has huge consequences involved, enough to affect your life forever. Best advise: Don't do it, you will be very sorry you did and had little regard for privacy
Sent from my HTC Desire 610 using Tapatalk
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To me it's like opening someone's mail. It would be really easy to walk over to the neighbor's mailbox and open their mail, but that doesn't mean it's their fault for not locking down their mail.
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To me it's like opening someone's mail. It would be really easy to walk over to the neighbor's mailbox and open their mail, but that doesn't mean it's their fault for not locking down their mail.
Or walking through their front door and perusing their refrigerator. Hey man, if you don't want me taking your beers, lock your front door.
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Or walking through their front door and perusing their refrigerator. Hey man, if you don't want me taking your beers, lock your front door.
Shit just got real.
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wonder when snowden will weigh in
had to add this definitive final word from the simpsons
http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/25217698/watch-the-simpsons-predicts-the-cardinals-spying-on-everyone?FTAG=YHF7e3228e
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Thought this was a good article (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13106874/why-houston-astros-database-worth-hacking) about why someone would want to hack the Astros.
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To me it's like opening someone's mail. It would be really easy to walk over to the neighbor's mailbox and open their mail, but that doesn't mean it's their fault for not locking down their mail.
Would you feel the same way if your medical records were "secured" behind 3-year-old recycled passwords? Based on Budgirl's article, MLB (and the Astros) have no standards for IT or information security. Hopefully that's changing now.
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Would you feel the same way if your medical records were "secured" behind 3-year-old recycled passwords? Based on Budgirl's article, MLB (and the Astros) have no standards for IT or information security. Hopefully that's changing now.
Luhnow vehemently denies this. He points out he was in I.T. before baseball and he certainly is familiar with security hygiene including not re-using passwords.
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Would you feel the same way if your medical records were "secured" behind 3-year-old recycled passwords? Based on Budgirl's article, MLB (and the Astros) have no standards for IT or information security. Hopefully that's changing now.
I think you're missing the point. It doesn't matter how easy opening someone else's mail is, it's an inexcusable crime.
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Would you feel the same way if your medical records were "secured" behind 3-year-old recycled passwords? Based on Budgirl's article, MLB (and the Astros) have no standards for IT or information security. Hopefully that's changing now.
It depends on what the medical records were wearing and why were they out there at that time of night anyway?
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It depends on what the medical records were wearing and why were they out there at that time of night anyway?
I, honestly, was waiting for someone to make this kind of comment.
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Nothing wrong with pointing out good fences make good neighbors.
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Nothing wrong with pointing out good fences make good neighbors.
Passwords keep honest people honest. Criminals are gonna find a way to be criminals.
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The general tone of what I have been hearing and reading in the coverage of this by sports-oriented media is that the talking heads/personalities yuk it up or make light of the alleged hacking, or get distracted by ancillary issues like the password thing, or why would the greatest organization in baseball history - maybe human history, even - stoop to hacking a sorry organization who had lost well over 100 games three years running?
While, meanwhile, the legal experts they bring into discuss the matter (and I have no idea if they are really legal "experts" or not) keep telling them this is a lot more serious than you guys think.
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Nothing wrong with pointing out good fences make good neighbors.
We're just going to have to be two roads diverging in a yellow woods on this.
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It is quite possible that the Astros have a secure network and the Cardinals' main hacker is just that good. Hell, who is to say the guy the Cardinal organization hired for hacking hasn't hacked into other ballclubs' networks. Probably has.
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It is quite possible that the Astros have a secure network and the Cardinals' main hacker is just that good.
Except that the FBI has pretty clearly stated that wasn't the case.
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Except that the FBI has pretty clearly stated that wasn't the case.
True, I just want to think the best organization in pro sports would hire a really talented guy for their off-the-books black hat ops.
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Except that the FBI has pretty clearly stated that wasn't the case.
Of course Luhnow is vehemently going to deny being a careless dumbass with the password thing. The reality is that the hack wasn't done by some group of experts using Thor and advanced techniques. It was a bunch of goons sitting around a card table with a twelve pack of Bud Light in a rental house in Jupiter.
Despite the many opportunities for levity this is a serious crime and I expect the people involved to be punished accordingly. But to pretend that the Eastern Missouri branch of Anonymous somehow compromised bulletproof access control systems is silly.
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If they used old passwords, then Im guessing Jeff, and others, like most of us probably uses fairly similar passwords so that he can remember them with a certain set of parameters. Certain words with changed up symbols and numbers.
My guess is that the security problem with this system is its similarity to RedBird. This isn't a matter of just going to Astros.com and logging in, the Cardinals had to find out where they needed to go to break in, and my guess is that its very similar if not the same to how they log into their own network. They didn't need a bunch of hacking knowledge to find out where to go. Once you know where to go, figuring out the password could have a reasonable chance of success with a little time and information about how particular employees constructed their other passwords in the past.
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I find it funny how convinced people seem to be that they know the facts or think they have a pretty good understanding.
The locks keep out the innocent cliche doesn't apply if you had to type in a user name and password. Now if they found the information by just clicking, that cliche might be useful. But it doesn't matter. You are taught day one in the business world today that is is unethical and against the law to do anything with another person's/group's confidential information. You immediately get legal involved, they notify the victim that you "accidentally" came across their data and hand over every copy you have.
The drunken morons hanging around a computer theory is shot if multiple instances over multiple years is true
Certainly, CardinalsWS2017! might lead to some guessable passwords. But it absolutely doesn't matter how you come across confidential information. It absolutely does not. Even if they left it accidentally on a table at Starbucks
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I find it funny how convinced people seem to be that they know the facts or think they have a pretty good understanding.
The locks keep out the innocent cliche doesn't apply if you had to type in a user name and password. Now if they found the information by just clicking, that cliche might be useful. But it doesn't matter. You are taught day one in the business world today that is is unethical and against the law to do anything with another person's/group's confidential information. You immediately get legal involved, they notify the victim that you "accidentally" came across their data and hand over every copy you have.
The drunken morons hanging around a computer theory is shot if multiple instances over multiple years is true
Certainly, CardinalsWS2017! might lead to some guessable passwords. But it absolutely doesn't matter how you come across confidential information. It absolutely does not. Even if they left it accidentally on a table at Starbucks
Ding, ding, ding!
Sent from my HTC Desire 610 using Tapatalk
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/Certainly, CardinalsWS2017! might lead to some guessable passwords. But it absolutely doesn't matter how you come across confidential information. It absolutely does not. Even if they left it accidentally on a table at Starbucks
Who do you think is arguing that the deliberate breach of a secure, corporate data network is not a serious crime?
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Jakes fans...
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The new jersey in StL (http://www.gocomics.com/claybennett/2015/06/18).
(h/t @BestFansStLouis)
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BTW, Nice recap NeilT, (or should I say Waldo)
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BTW, Nice recap NeilT, (or should I say Waldo)
I didn't write no stinkin' recap. I been hacked.
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oh the humanity
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NeilT or Waldo, it really was excellent.
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This will be highly secure and you should have no concerns using your personal data on this network. (http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog/biznext/2015/06/busch-stadium-soon-to-have-working-wi-fi-thanks-to.html)
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This will be highly secure and you should have no concerns using your personal data on this network. (http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog/biznext/2015/06/busch-stadium-soon-to-have-working-wi-fi-thanks-to.html)
Is there any in-stadium wi-fi system that doesn't suck balls when there's more than about 50 people in there?
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Is there any in-stadium wi-fi system that doesn't suck balls when there's more than about 50 people in there?
There is in every NFL stadium I've been to, *other* than Reliant, who claims it's not possible, despite every other team managing to make it happen.
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There is in every NFL stadium I've been to, *other* than Reliant, who claims it's not possible, despite every other team managing to make it happen.
Yeah. I get 5 bars and LTE on my AT&T connection in Reliant, and absolutely no service whatsoever. I've tried wi-fi and that is the same. I suspect I have more server capacity in my spare room than they've installed at Reliant.
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Yeah. I get 5 bars and LTE on my AT&T connection in Reliant, and absolutely no service whatsoever. I've tried wi-fi and that is the same. I suspect I have more server capacity in my spare room than they've installed at Reliant.
I've had the same thing at other venues (Moda Center in PDX, Qwest Field in SEA, etc.). My general WAG was that the lack of service/ability to receive data was purposeful (jammed, or something or another), so am curious if it is generally a server issue (or perhaps some nepharious plot by the man to keep me down...).
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i vote for the later.. grew up in the 70s sounds plausible..we used to think everyone over the age of 25 on campus was a narc
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There is in every NFL stadium I've been to, *other* than Reliant, who claims it's not possible, despite every other team managing to make it happen.
With a few hiccups here and there, it's amazingly good in RJS. Probably since it's been less than half-full the past few years.
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With a few hiccups here and there, it's amazingly good in RJS. Probably since it's been less than half-full the past few years.
It's been very good in MMPUS in recent years.
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I've had the same thing at other venues (Moda Center in PDX, Qwest Field in SEA, etc.). My general WAG was that the lack of service/ability to receive data was purposeful (jammed, or something or another), so am curious if it is generally a server issue (or perhaps some nepharious plot by the man to keep me down...).
Too many devices in a small area making requests at the same time. It overwhelms the network. It's not hard to fix, they just have to spend the money to put in the necessary infrastructure to be able to handle that many devices at once. Which most stadiums haven't bothered to do.
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Too many devices in a small area making requests at the same time. It overwhelms the network. It's not hard to fix, they just have to spend the money to put in the necessary infrastructure to be able to handle that many devices at once. Which most stadiums haven't bothered to do.
Seats for 70,000 and Wi-Fi for 700.
It's like when a bar opens - occupancy limit 120, parking for 10 - and wonders why no one (in Houston) comes.
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Too many devices in a small area making requests at the same time. It overwhelms the network. It's not hard to fix, they just have to spend the money to put in the necessary infrastructure to be able to handle that many devices at once. Which most stadiums haven't bothered to do.
The NFL is pushing for teams to fix this problem. The few other than Reliant that I've been to, have no problem. But the NFL is going to eventually make this a requirement, so hopefully the Texans get on board sooner rather than later.
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The NFL is pushing for teams to fix this problem. The few other than Reliant that I've been to, have no problem. But the NFL is going to eventually make this a requirement, so hopefully the Texans get on board sooner rather than later.
I thought it was a requirement to host the Super Bowl?
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I thought it was a requirement to host the Super Bowl?
It may be. I know it was a big part of the "fan experience" hot button for Goodell.
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Scouting director admits to accessing database. Fired. Looks like he wasn't the only one who accessed it, either.
http://m.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinals-fire-scouting-director/article_b529088f-70c3-51c5-bab2-106afa1d2a12.html
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Wow. That isn't some regional scout getting canned.
So do we get the Cards 1st round pick next year?
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Scouting director admits to accessing database. Fired. Looks like he wasn't the only one who accessed it, either.
http://m.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinals-fire-scouting-director/article_b529088f-70c3-51c5-bab2-106afa1d2a12.html
That's not a low-level employee as had been speculated.
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That's not a low-level employee as had been speculated.
Well that seems pretty low level. He was only scouting amateurs.
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Scouting director admits to accessing database. Fired. Looks like he wasn't the only one who accessed it, either.
http://m.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinals-fire-scouting-director/article_b529088f-70c3-51c5-bab2-106afa1d2a12.html
In a prepared statement, Correa lawyer Nicholas Williams wrote, "Mr. Correa denies any illegal conduct. The relevant inquiry should be what information did former St. Louis Cardinals employees steal from the St. Louis Cardinals organization prior to joining the Houston Astros, and who in the Houston Astros organization authorized, consented to, or benefitted from that roguish behavior."
Correa has admitted hacking into a Houston Astros database but said it was only to verify whether the Astros had stolen proprietary data, according to a source with knowledge of the investigation.
That's just not a great defense.
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In a prepared statement, Correa lawyer Nicholas Williams wrote, "Mr. Correa denies any illegal conduct. The relevant inquiry should be what information did former St. Louis Cardinals employees steal from the St. Louis Cardinals organization prior to joining the Houston Astros, and who in the Houston Astros organization authorized, consented to, or benefitted from that roguish behavior."
Correa has admitted hacking into a Houston Astros database but said it was only to verify whether the Astros had stolen proprietary data, according to a source with knowledge of the investigation.
That's just not a great defense.
They stole my car, so I broke into their house and kidnapped their children. Ok then.
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In a prepared statement, Correa lawyer Nicholas Williams wrote, "Mr. Correa denies any illegal conduct. The relevant inquiry should be what information did former St. Louis Cardinals employees steal from the St. Louis Cardinals organization prior to joining the Houston Astros, and who in the Houston Astros organization authorized, consented to, or benefitted from that roguish behavior."
Correa has admitted hacking into a Houston Astros database but said it was only to verify whether the Astros had stolen proprietary data, according to a source with knowledge of the investigation.
That's just not a great defense.
Any chance Luhnow could sue the lawyer for slander?
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It's nice that the public benefit of the doubt is actually starting to sway Luhnow's way.
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The relevant inquiry should be what information did former St. Louis Cardinals employees steal from the St. Louis Cardinals organization prior to joining the Houston Astros, and who in the Houston Astros organization authorized, consented to, or benefitted from that roguish behavior."
That "relevant inquiry" would presumably have to be pushed by St. Louis, and just I don't see that happening.
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That "relevant inquiry" would presumably have to be pushed by St. Louis, and just I don't see that happening.
I thought doing so (taking proprietary information) would violate federal law.
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Those of you saying you "knew" it had to be somebody high up need to go back and read the article again. The hacking was done during spring training 2014. Correa was promoted to scouting director in WINTER of 2014.
On my calendar, spring comes before winter, meaning he was NOT scouting director when he did it. Just a low-level grunt at the time who got promoted.
As soon as they found out what he did, they fired him.
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I have no clue whether that would give rise to any criminal action.
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As soon as they found out what he did, they fired him.
Yeah, Chuck, I'm sure it's just a coincidence they found out right after he finished signing all of their draft picks.
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Well, the traceable hack was spring 2014, but there were other hacks, beginning I think in 2013. The thing is though, even if he wasn't scouting director in the spring of 2014, it's unlikely he was a "low-level grunt." Unless of course the Cardinals' organiation so this young star with all this great scouting information that seemed to come from nowhere.
Point being, even before he got the title, he must have been a pretty well-respected part of the operation.
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He wasn't some slouch. From the article, "He later joined the front office full-time and was promoted to manager of baseball development in 2012." In less than 3 years time he made it scouting director.
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I got up this morning thinking I could go over to some KC Royals fan forum and engage in some much needed schadenfreude, but I got to tell you, it was a disappointment. They were decidedly upbeat and midwestern and cheery.
Now this! Oh Joy! I may spend the rest of the evening reading Cardinals fanposts! I did see, though, that there wasn't a single entry about the resignation on the MLB Cardinals fan forum page. Do you think no one's interested?
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They stole my car, so I broke into their house and kidnapped their children. Ok then.
It's pretty much the same reason OJ is in jail. He kidnapped some dudes to check if they stole memorabilia from him.
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I'm quoting someone from the comments section of the article. That's why I used the quote function, not because I had some spastic fit.
Anyway, I was amused that he does not seem to know that January comes before March.
A joke always falls flat in explanation. I guess I'll have to be more mindful of the audience.
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Oh, and this Correa was plainly high enough to where the idea that no one above him knew what was going on does not hold water.
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I'm quoting someone from the comments section of the article. That's why I used the quote function, not because I had some spastic fit.
Anyway, I was amused that he does not seem to know that January comes before March.
A joke always falls flat in explanation. I guess I'll have to be more mindful of the audience.
Yes. You're well aware that I am an idiot.
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Yes. You're well aware that I am an idiot.
And yet I feel quite certain that you know the calendar better than the average Jakefan.
Of course you can tie a bowtie and I'm lucky to get close with a Half Windsor.
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Skills. Girls like guys with skills.
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It's nice that the public benefit of the doubt is actually starting to sway Luhnow's way.
Winning will do that more than anything else.
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So what does Bernie "The Hack" Miklacz of the StL Post-Dispatch have to say (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/bernie-plot-thickens-in-cards-hacking-scandal/article_9bafe576-362e-5e6a-a51c-c73631c7e6f0.html)? Despite lots of lame jokes (including referencing the Marichal/Roseboro incident as somehow having occurred in 1975--which I'm sure the editors will get around to fixing soon), quite an entertaining read from a schadenfreude perspective. There was this:
Did management pass on a chance to clear Correa out at an earlier time? For example: what if DeWitt and Mozeliak allowed Correa to run last month's draft despite knowing Correa was a serious person of interest in the FBI's investigation into the hack attack? This would be an unfortunate lapse in judgment — one that will raise significant ethical concerns.
And this:
One way or another, Mozeliak should disassemble much of what's left of the baseball ops to start fresh. The shameful cyber spying has sullied the franchise's reputation, and unless Mozeliak conducts a major sweeping, doubts about the Cardinals' integrity will fester.
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That's not a low-level employee as had been speculated.
Some more comments from Miklasz: Plot thickens in Cards' hacking scandal (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/bernie-plot-thickens-in-cards-hacking-scandal/article_9bafe576-362e-5e6a-a51c-c73631c7e6f0.html)
There is a lot more meat there, so give it a click...
1. This raises the level of embarrassment for the Cardinals' organization. Correa wasn't*** some low-profile guy that worked in the scouting department in an entry-level position. *** Correa was a rising star in the St. Louis baseball operation, promoted three times since joining the organization in 2009.
4. With Correa gone, we can't help but take note of the so-called Brain Drain in the Cardinals' scouting-analytics department over the past few years.*** The hacking scandal obviously has watchers wondering if the Cardinals will absorb additional hits to the baseball operation as the FBI investigation — as well as the team's internal investigation — draw to a close. ***
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Yahoo Sports headline: Scandal-mired Cardinals sack scouting director. Love it.
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Some more comments from Miklasz: Plot thickens in Cards' hacking scandal (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/bernie-plot-thickens-in-cards-hacking-scandal/article_9bafe576-362e-5e6a-a51c-c73631c7e6f0.html)
Isn't that the very same column I just linked to an hour ago in the immediately prior post? (Cabrera asked rhetorically)
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Isn't that the very same column I just linked to an hour ago in the immediately prior post? Or was there another point you were making?
Same column, "some more comments" were in follow-up to your quote (which I errantly failed to quote...).
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BTW, perfectly timed hacking-sacking by the Co-ards... Afternoon ahead of a 3-day holiday weekend, Damage Control 101 right there (let's hope it doesn't work)...
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hacking-sacking
I like.
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hoes hacking sacking who needs the enquirer
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He wasn't some slouch. From the article, "He later joined the front office full-time and was promoted to manager of baseball development in 2012." In less than 3 years time he made it scouting director.
Maybe he had a secret scouting technique that gave him an edge over the competition...
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Skills. Girls like guys with skills.
I believe that's only relevant if you tie it with your tongue.
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As far as Luhnow's possible violation of the Joliet Jakes' proprietary information, a lot will depend on employment law in Missouri (presuming that this is the state law applicable to his contract with the 3rds). They have only recently passed "right to work" laws in Missouri, which make the enforcement of non-competes (amongst other things) quite hard to do. They were not in place during Luhnow;'s tenure in STL, though, so I do not know if they would apply here.
With deference to the lawyers out there (i.e. everyone except me), I'm not sure they have much of a case if Luhnow used methods and techniques he learned in the Cards' organisation for his new job at the Astros. If he stole their database, that's a whole other matter, but if he used the technique of creating a database that tracked the things he used to track for the Co-Ards, then I don't think they have a leg to stand on. If Luhnow could move the jurisdiction to Texas (unlikely), they'd laugh this one all the way back to Missouri.
Even then, this is (typically) a civil matter, being the violation of his contract with the Jakes. The criminal justice system (of which there are two separate yet equally important parts) usually can't give a flying fuck about these pissing contests. And when it comes down to it, the remedies available in civil court are negligible mostly. Think about it: what monetary penalty could they calculate to put a value on Luhnow having a snapshot of the Jakes scouting system that became frozen in time? It's not like he wouldn't remember the names of the hot prospects and re-boot his file on them at the Astros; so we're only really talking about the Astros having the same knowledge (sans updates) of middling to to low-level prospects. Hardly the sort of thing that the courts are going to see as having a significant financial impact on the Cards.
So the Jakes defense of this is that they broke into their neighbour's house because his grass was very green and they wanted to see if he was using the same fertilizer. On the balance of wrongs, they are way, way, way on the downside of this one.
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Nice! (http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/blog/2015/07/editorial-cartoon-takes-aim-at-cardinals-hacking.html#i1)
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With deference to the lawyers out there (i.e. everyone except me), I'm not sure they have much of a case if Luhnow used methods and techniques he learned in the Cards' organisation for his new job at the Astros. If he stole their database, that's a whole other matter, but if he used the technique of creating a database that tracked the things he used to track for the Co-Ards, then I don't think they have a leg to stand on.
Having spent 30 years in software development, the great struggle is in figuring out what you want to do, not how to do it. Luhnow doesn't need to bring over proprietary data; what the Astros need from him is his judgement on how much to value to various things they track, from the objective (speed to first, batting stats, etc) to the subjective (how does the prospect deal with failure, how honorable is he, is he too proud to be in some positions, etc). That's not proprietary data as much as it is the expertise of Luhnow. If he can spell how that sort of criteria, getting the software done is trivial.
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Bill Murray brings the truth: (http://deadspin.com/bill-murray-on-cardinals-fans-satans-messengers-on-ea-1716826085?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)
Murray, wearing a floppy hat and a blue and gold paisley shirt that was perpetually untucked, began bantering with the masses before he took his first swing.
He asked if any fans saw his beloved Cubs sweep St. Louis in a double-header Tuesday. One woman behind the ropes said she was a Cardinals fan.
“Satan’s messengers on Earth,” was the way Murray described the Cardinals.
“And then it turns out your team is cheaters, too,’’ he added.
[...]
A few steps away, a boy with a Cardinals hat asked for an autograph. Murray signed, then noticed the red cap. “Are you a Cardinals fan? Get out of here. Rotten kid.”
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Bill Murray brings the truth: (http://deadspin.com/bill-murray-on-cardinals-fans-satans-messengers-on-ea-1716826085?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)
Murray, wearing a floppy hat and a blue and gold paisley shirt that was perpetually untucked, began bantering with the masses before he took his first swing.
He asked if any fans saw his beloved Cubs sweep St. Louis in a double-header Tuesday. One woman behind the ropes said she was a Cardinals fan.
“Satan’s messengers on Earth,” was the way Murray described the Cardinals.
“And then it turns out your team is cheaters, too,’’ he added.
[...]
A few steps away, a boy with a Cardinals hat asked for an autograph. Murray signed, then noticed the red cap. “Are you a Cardinals fan? Get out of here. Rotten kid.”
Bill Murray might be my favorite person on earth. Even if he's a Cubs fan.