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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: VirtualBob on March 13, 2014, 09:41:57 am

Title: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: VirtualBob on March 13, 2014, 09:41:57 am
Is anyone else worried that Fowler is striking out at a 50% rate in ST?  I know ... small sample size.  But still, that is not what I was expecting from a prototypical leadoff guy.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: subnuclear on March 13, 2014, 09:49:07 am
He seems to have consistent history of striking out 20-25% of the time, which isn't particularly great for a lead-off hitter, so I imagine it will come down as he plays more.
Title: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: geezerdonk on March 13, 2014, 10:36:09 am
I understood getting rid of Lyles. I understood that Barnes was expendable. I never did understand why the Astros wanted Fowler in exchange - unless it was to package him in a later trade.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: GreatBagwellsBeard on March 13, 2014, 10:49:00 am
I understood getting rid of Lyles. I understood that Barnes was expendable. I never did understand why the Astros wanted Fowler in exchange - unless it was to package him in a later trade.

Because he's a legit leadoff hitter with more pop than anybody who started last year besides Castro?
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: mrpink on March 13, 2014, 11:09:35 am
Because he's a legit leadoff hitter with more pop than anybody who started last year besides Castro?
Well...and Carter.

He's also got a pretty good shot at leading this team in OBP.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: Bench on March 13, 2014, 11:23:17 am
He's also got a pretty good shot at leading this team in OBP.

.363, .389, and .369 the last three years.  Last Castro led the team with .350 OBP.  I'd say that OBP was probably the highest factor in Luhnow targeting Fowler.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: juliogotay on March 13, 2014, 11:48:32 am
He improves the OF defense with Springer starting out in AAA. He will hit leadoff which allows Altuve to bat second which is something Porter wanted. He is a guy that may have the better years in front of him whether it's in Houston or somewhere else.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: Mr. Happy on March 13, 2014, 01:46:36 pm
.363, .389, and .369 the last three years.  Last Castro led the team with .350 OBP.  I'd say that OBP was probably the highest factor in Luhnow targeting Fowler.

That OBP is plenty good enough for me. Not everyone can be a Shin Soo Choo.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: Col. Sphinx Drummond on March 13, 2014, 01:48:00 pm
One would hope with that kind of OBP and speed Fowler would collect more stolen bases. He's more fast than quick, in 2010 and 2011 he had more triples than steals.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: austro on March 13, 2014, 09:22:21 pm
He's more fast than quick, in 2010 and 2011 he had more triples than steals.

Wow. How often does that happen?
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: Lefty on March 14, 2014, 12:53:26 am
Not everyone can be a Shin Soo Choo.

Gesundheit
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: NeilT on March 14, 2014, 05:06:41 am
Wow. How often does that happen?

I'd bet it's more common to have one triple and no steals than 6 triples and 4 steals.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: jaklewein on March 14, 2014, 09:26:04 am
unless it was to package him in a later trade.

I thought this a soon as I heard about the trade.  I think Luhnow probably shopped Lyles because he could (organization has a lot of depth) and am thinking it was all about getting the best value back that he could.  If it fit an organizational need, great.  If not, then the thought would be at least you got value that you could maybe trade later for the need you were originally seeking.  Reminds me of when he acquired Lowrie.  Am I way off base?
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: Limey on March 14, 2014, 09:44:06 am
I'd bet it's more common to have one triple and no steals than 6 triples and 4 steals.

Carlos Lee had a triple once...once!
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: jbm on March 14, 2014, 09:52:01 am
I thought this a soon as I heard about the trade.  I think Luhnow probably shopped Lyles because he could (organization has a lot of depth) and am thinking it was all about getting the best value back that he could.  If it fit an organizational need, great.  If not, then the thought would be at least you got value that you could maybe trade later for the need you were originally seeking.  Reminds me of when he acquired Lowrie.  Am I way off base?

I hope they didn't ship Lyles because they thought they were deep in pitching.  I always assumed that the trade was straightforward: they needed an outfielder for this year (and next) and Lyles was the price they had to pay.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: jaklewein on March 14, 2014, 10:06:34 am
I hope they didn't ship Lyles because they thought they were deep in pitching.  I always assumed that the trade was straightforward: they needed an outfielder for this year (and next) and Lyles was the price they had to pay.

Why did they need an OF for this year and next?  They knew they wouldn't be competitive this year for sure and, they'd been more than happy to trot out whatever talent (I hesitated to use this word) they had year after year before.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: Mr. Happy on March 14, 2014, 10:08:15 am
I hope they didn't ship Lyles because they thought they were deep in pitching.  I always assumed that the trade was straightforward: they needed an outfielder for this year (and next) and Lyles was the price they had to pay.

I think that they were selling at the right time on Lyles. His sample size was ample enough, even though he's still a young pup. He seems to just throw balls into bats. I hope that he turns it around, and he's got plenty of time to do that.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: juliogotay on March 14, 2014, 10:15:46 am
I think that they were selling at the right time on Lyles. His sample size was ample enough, even though he's still a young pup. He seems to just throw balls into bats. I hope that he turns it around, and he's got plenty of time to do that.

Yes and Lyles was also coming up on being arbitration-eligible. I think the Astros really do think they are deep in organizational pitching at all levels. We read the comments recently from Cabell about the pitching depth at QC. Lyles was expendible and I believe they wanted a lead-off hitter and a stabilizing CFer. Porter didn't like Altuve in the one-hole. Alot of folks believe Fowler is a place-holder until Springer is ready but it may be more until DeShields is ready?
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: jbm on March 14, 2014, 10:48:24 am
Why did they need an OF for this year and next?  They knew they wouldn't be competitive this year for sure and, they'd been more than happy to trot out whatever talent (I hesitated to use this word) they had year after year before.
I think Crane/Luhnow took some of the criticism to heart, and within a certain budget, decided they wanted to improve the club for this year and beyond.  Not break-the-bank type improvement, but improvement within their means.  Witness all the arms they acquired.  Fowler for Lyles fits within that strategy.

Time will tell on Lyles.  I still think he will excel, but it is hard to argue with analysis that regards him as average or below.

Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: Bench on March 14, 2014, 10:54:28 am
Carlos Lee had a triple once...once!

In 2011 Carlos Lee was second on the team in triples with 4, trailing only Bourn's 7 triples and ahead of Pence's 3 triples.  Big wheels kept on turning that summer.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: Reuben on March 14, 2014, 11:10:04 am
I think Crane/Luhnow took some of the criticism to heart, and within a certain budget, decided they wanted to improve the club for this year and beyond.  Not break-the-bank type improvement, but improvement within their means.  Witness all the arms they acquired.  Fowler for Lyles fits within that strategy.

Time will tell on Lyles.  I still think he will excel, but it is hard to argue with analysis that regards him as average or below.


I agree, I think that, while it's certainly possible they might trade Fowler at some point (he's under contract through 2015), I think they made the deal because they like him as a player for the Astros, not as future trade bait. They are at a different point now than they were when they made the Lowrie deals. They need to show major league progress this year.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: astrosfan76 on March 14, 2014, 02:16:09 pm
I agree, I think that, while it's certainly possible they might trade Fowler at some point (he's under contract through 2015), I think they made the deal because they like him as a player for the Astros, not as future trade bait. They are at a different point now than they were when they made the Lowrie deals. They need to show major league progress this year.

Yep.  They said they were going to bump up payroll and they did that.  I don't see them adding payroll with the intention of just shipping it away in a few months, not at this stage.  Could he be traded in 1 1/2 years if they really want to make room for DDS, or someone else?  Sure.  But, it's also possible they like him so much that they keep him around for 4-5 years.  I think they'll be hesitant to trade him away this season because of the perception if payroll drops below $20M again. 
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: Navin R Johnson on March 14, 2014, 05:28:13 pm
If say DDS and Springer looked like they were ready to contribute, and you could get good value for Fowler, then they would likely trade him.  Hopefully for someone that was very close if not MLB ready at a position of need.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: NeilT on March 14, 2014, 07:53:51 pm
In 2011 Carlos Lee was second on the team in triples with 4, trailing only Bourn's 7 triples and ahead of Pence's 3 triples.  Big wheels kept on turning that summer.

How many steals did he have in 2011?
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: astrosfan76 on March 14, 2014, 08:27:05 pm
If say DDS and Springer looked like they were ready to contribute, and you could get good value for Fowler, then they would likely trade him.  Hopefully for someone that was very close if not MLB ready at a position of need.

DDS ready this year? Springer's up this year either way, possibly OD, but I really don't see DDS getting even a September call up this season. We're looking at a mid-season callup in '15 at the earliest. Could they trade Fowler at that point if they like DDS enough? Sure, but that is different than just acquiring him to flip him for prospects once his value rises.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: Reuben on March 14, 2014, 11:40:44 pm
Exactly. Domingo Santana's likely to be in the bigs before Delino, and even he might not make it til 2015.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: juliogotay on March 15, 2014, 10:27:04 am
Exactly. Domingo Santana's likely to be in the bigs before Delino, and even he might not make it til 2015.

Don't overlook Preston Tucker. He's moving very quickly through the organization and Luhnow speaks very highly of him.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: tbone421998 on March 17, 2014, 09:21:37 am
How many steals did he have in 2011?
Four steals to go along with his four triples.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: BlownRanger on March 24, 2014, 11:42:41 am
How many steals did he have in 2011?

I don't know, but he had 19 steals in 20 attempts the season before signing with Houston.

You can win a lot on the bar room wager circuit with that information.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: JimR on March 24, 2014, 12:18:26 pm
his problem is injuries.
Title: Re: Dexter K Fowler
Post by: juliogotay on March 25, 2014, 07:49:01 am
his problem is injuries.

along those lines http://www.astroscounty.com/2014/03/rockies-better-off-without-dexter-fowler.html