OrangeWhoopass.com Forums
General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: OregonStrosFan on October 16, 2013, 03:16:39 pm
-
So sayeth Buster anyway... Twitter LINK (https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/390568967644774400)
@Buster_ESPN
Bidding on Cuba defector Jose Abreu is expected to be for a $70 million deal, sources say. White Sox,Astros, Rangers viewed as frontrunners.
More on Cuban defector Jose Dariel Abreu via this ESPN LINK (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/onenationmlb09172013/sizing-cuban-slugger-jose-dariel-abreu):
"He has monstrous power," said a scout who began following Abreu at the 2009 IBAF World Cup.*** One talent evaluator said Abreu could step into a big league lineup tomorrow and hit .260 with 25 home runs. That's not far from what Cespedes is doing in Oakland this season. Another expressed concern that Abreu looks "confused" against breaking balls and thought he could benefit from a little seasoning in the upper minors. Once Abreu gets the hang of major league pitching, the consensus is that he has the strength to hit 30 homers by accident.
-
Yeah, but can he hit .220 and strike out a couple hundred times a year while shuffling around on the field? If he can, we've already got that for a lot less cash.
-
Yeah, but can he hit .220 and strike out a couple hundred times a year while shuffling around on the field? If he can, we've already got that for a lot less cash.
Cespedes didn't look that good this season. I'm not sure that I would bet the farm on a 26 year old who hasn't proven that he can hit big league pitching consistently yet.
-
Additional Abreu info via Astros County: LINK (http://www.astroscounty.com/2013/10/astros-among-front-runners-for-jose.html)
-
But does he play the game with emotion the right way?
-
I love it. Get him.
-
But does he play the game with emotion the right way?
Who knows?
-
Astros County's amalgam makes me a little more interested for sure.
-
Astros County's amalgam makes me a little more interested for sure.
Agreed.
-
but wouldnt he make more than the rest of the team combined
-
Really wish you would've topped my original thread from 4 months ago about the Astros going after this guy.
http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=116021.0
-
6 years at $72M seems more reasonable than 5 years at $85M for some reason.
-
But does he play the game with emotion the right way?
Doesn't matter, I'll still burn whatever Kurt Gibson baseball cards I run across...
-
Really wish you would've topped my original thread from 4 months ago about the Astros going after this guy.
http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=116021.0
My bad... Perhaps one of the awesome OWA Talk Zone admins'd consider combining threads for ya!
-
I'm not crazy about him. I've never seen the guy play, but if he's limited defensively and the pessimistic scouts are correct about him having him having trouble with breaking balls and FBs on the inner third, I don't see him being that good. I'd rather them spend on pitching than a guy who may not be that much better than Carter.
-
I'm not crazy about him. I've never seen the guy play, but if he's limited defensively and the pessimistic scouts are correct about him having him having trouble with breaking balls and FBs on the inner third, I don't see him being that good. I'd rather them spend on pitching than a guy who may not be that much better than Carter.
I stopped reading at: "I've never seen the guy play"
get back to me when you have.
-
I'm just relieved they're not going after Bobby Abreu.
-
I'm just relieved they're not going after Bobby Abreu.
Cue the expansion draft rage.
-
Cue the expansion draft rage.
Speaking of which....is Santana done? I assume so as I haven't heard his name in a couple of years. I know he was hurt but tried a comeback.
-
Speaking of which....is Santana done? I assume so as I haven't heard his name in a couple of years. I know he was hurt but tried a comeback.
His contract with the Mets is up, so he's a free agent. There were some reports a couple of days ago of him starting to throw again, so he might be trying for a last hurrah.
-
His contract with the Mets is up, so he's a free agent. There were some reports a couple of days ago of him starting to throw again, so he might be trying for a last hurrah.
He's one a few "interesting" pitching reclamation project FAs, others include Josh Johnson and Halladay. I wouldn't mind seeing the Astros take some shots with short term deals with FA pitchers this year. Dan Haren would be a nice addition if he goes for low money or just a year or two deal.
-
He's one a few "interesting" pitching reclamation project FAs, others include Josh Johnson and Halladay. I wouldn't mind seeing the Astros take some shots with short term deals with FA pitchers this year. Dan Haren would be a nice addition if he goes for low money or just a year or two deal.
Dan Haren??? WTF??? He struggled mightily this season. I saw him throw twice, and he had nothing. No thank you. Can anyone think of similar Astros FA SP busts in the not-too-distant past?
-
MLB.com reports (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20131017&content_id=63066500&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb&tcid=tw_article_63066500) that Abreu has narrowed the list to three teams: HOU, BOS,and CWS
-
Per Olney on Twitter, the BoSox have dropped out. Just the ChiSox and Stros now.
I fully expect a top-4 market team to swoop in and pay $100MM at this point.
-
This is fantastic
-
I'm just relieved they're not going after Bobby Abreu.
Or Tony Abreu.
-
Or Tony Abreu.
Or Juan Abreu (the other Abreu who got away...)
-
I am all for anything less than $110M and no more than 6 years. This is not a bad heart of the order to build on:
Altuve
Springer
Abreu
Singleton
-
BusterTweet: Source say Astros are skeptical about their chances of signing Jose Abreu. Made a strong offer but all but certain they fell short. W. Sox?
-
BusterTweet: Source say Astros are skeptical about their chances of signing Jose Abreu. Made a strong offer but all but certain they fell short. W. Sox?
I am skeptical, too.
-
BusterTweet: Source say Astros are skeptical about their chances of signing Jose Abreu. Made a strong offer but all but certain they fell short. W. Sox?
The follow-up:
The Astros did, in fact, make a hard bid on Abreu while falling short: Heard their bid was between $50 million and $60 million.
-
The follow-up:
The Astros did, in fact, make a hard bid on Abreu while falling short: Heard their bid was between $50 million and $60 million.
But did they point out that Texas has no income tax?
-
But did they point out that Texas has no income tax?
Too bad the kid didn't already have a ranch.
-
Did they tell him about the buffet?
-
Maybe they just leaked that to lure the White Sox down on their offer...to outbid them in the end? ? ???
-
Did they tell him about the buffet?
Sadly, we can no longer lure in players with the siren song of Pancho's.
-
Did they tell him about the buffet?
They can't use that incentive anymore since they signed the 300 lb. Mexican guy.
-
Did they tell him about the buffet?
Geezer? Making a buffet joke?? I am so shocked!!
-
Dan Haren??? WTF??? He struggled mightily this season. I saw him throw twice, and he had nothing. No thank you. Can anyone think of similar Astros FA SP busts in the not-too-distant past?
You mean like Greg Swindell? Or Doug Drabek? Maybe those are too distant. How about Woody Williams? There's always Shawn Chacon. Some people might throw Moehler in there, but I thought he almost always gave a solid effort even though he didn't win many games.
-
I stopped reading at: "I've never seen the guy play"
get back to me when you have.
Fair enough. Either way, I have seen our pitching and would really like to see it be the focus this offseason.
-
I am all for anything less than $110M and no more than 6 years.
Way too much money to pay a guy who has never taken a MLB swing.
-
Way too much money to pay a guy who has never taken a MLB swing.
Rosenthal says the White Sox and Abreu are finalizing a 6 year $68 million deal.
-
Rosenthal says the White Sox and Abreu are finalizing a 6 year $68 million deal.
If only the Astros could've traded Carter to them for, say, $50MM in value.
-
Way too much money to pay a guy who has never taken a MLB swing.
Yeah who would want that Puig guy? Or Darvish? Waste of money
-
Yeah who would want that Puig guy? Or Darvish? Waste of money
$18.3 million a year. $110 million, six years. That's what you said. For a 26 year old overweight slow Cuban defector with fat holes in his swing and limited defensive skills. Idiot.
-
$18.3 million a year. $110 million, six years. That's what you said. For a 26 year old overweight slow Cuban defector with fat holes in his swing and limited defensive skills. Idiot.
"Bow-Tie" Rosenthal just said that it's 6 years, $68M (if I heard correctly). That's still more than I'd be willing to pay for a basically unknown quantity, but it's not completely ridiculous if you think that his numbers project.
ETA: I see that Bench also heard the 6/68 number.
-
"Bow-Tie" Rosenthal just said that it's 6 years, $68M (if I heard correctly). That's still more than I'd be willing to pay for a basically unknown quantity, but it's not completely ridiculous if you think that his numbers project.
ETA: I see that Bench also heard the 6/68 number.
He also said it was more than Darvish got by about 10 million and substantially more than Puig got. Maybe he's the next Cabrera but that's a huge risk.
-
He also said it was more than Darvish got by about 10 million and substantially more than Puig got. Maybe he's the next Cabrera but that's a huge risk.
If there is a chance he is a next Cabrera that's the sort of risk you want to take, but I'm not sure anyone is saying that.
-
Way too much money to pay a guy who has never taken a MLB swing.
+1 Roadrunner is naive.
-
These international stars seem to be less risky than the normal free agent market. Darvish, Cespedes, Puig, and Soler (still in the minors but is a top prospect) are all on average more bang for your buck than just the normal FA market where you get stuck with longer, more expensive contracts for guys in the tail ends of their careers.
If Crane was serious about spending 60M this year, I would have preferred is be on Abreu and a couple of bullpen pieces rather than overpay for some Corey Hart/Mike Morse/James Loney player.
Look at what the A's put together with Cespedes, some random guys, and effective young pitching.
-
If there is a chance he is a next Cabrera that's the sort of risk you want to take, but I'm not sure anyone is saying that.
Reports are that he is a better hitter than Puig or Cespedes.
And yeah he is a fat 1b, So maybe his comp is Prince Fielder, whose contract is a hell of a lot more expensive and longer than Abreu's 68M. And you would get Prince for his bad years instead of getting Abreu at his peak.
All free agency is a risk, I just think this is less of one.
-
...rather than overpay for some Corey Hart/Mike Morse/James Loney player.
How do you know this is what he's going to do? Speculation either way but putting that much into someone unproven is not a risk this team should take.
-
How do you know this is what he's going to do? Speculation either way but putting that much into someone unproven is not a risk this team should take.
I don't, I'm just saying in general it seems like the international market is a better bet than the "proven" MLB FA market of 30somethings. Which is probably why Billy Beane/Luhnow/Daniels/Epstein are going hard after these international guys.
-
I don't, I'm just saying in general it seems like the international market is a better bet than the "proven" MLB FA market of 30somethings. Which is probably why Billy Beane/Luhnow/Daniels/Epstein are going hard after these international guys.
Well, it sounds like they wanted him but it didn't work out. On to plan B.
-
If Luhnow signs him, I'll be excited, but I'll be happy with Corey Hart as well.
-
If Luhnow signs him, I'll be excited, but I'll be happy with Corey Hart as well.
Never Surrender to the Brewers.
-
Never Surrender to the Brewers.
No one can take away your right to overpay for Corey Hart.
-
If Luhnow signs him, I'll be excited, but I'll be happy with Corey Hart as well.
Never trust a man that wears his sunglasses at night.
-
The Brewers were a bad team last year and still won 23 more games than the Astros.
-
Is there still another Internt'l free agent that will generate alot of interest. A pitcher from Japan that is compared to Darvish. Tanaka I believe is the name.
-
Is there still another Internt'l free agent that will generate alot of interest. A pitcher from Japan that is compared to Darvish. Tanaka I believe is the name.
I think the Yankees are expected to go all in on him.
-
I think the Yankees are expected to go all in on him.
Kei Igawa can tell him all about how great the Yankees treat pitchers they bring over from Japan.
-
Kei Igawa can tell him all about how great the Yankees treat pitchers they bring over from Japan.
Unfortunately, Steinbrenner isn't around to call him a fat pussy toad.
-
Well, it sounds like they wanted him but it didn't work out. On to plan B.
Yep. But to say that the Astros shouldn't take an expensive risk on guys who have never swung a bat or thrown a pitch in the MLB is something I strongly disagree with.
-
Yep. But to say that the Astros shouldn't take an expensive risk on guys who have never swung a bat or thrown a pitch in the MLB is something I strongly disagree with.
I sure hope that gets you somewhere.
-
Yep. But to say that the Astros shouldn't take an expensive risk on guys who have never swung a bat or thrown a pitch in the MLB is something I strongly disagree with.
I'd prefer to let the scouts do the talking, and not some clown from ESPN or SI or whatever.
-
Am I really getting ripped for having a baseball opinion on an Astros message board? I love it.
-
Am I really getting ripped for having a baseball opinion on an Astros message board? I love it.
Naw, man. I just admire your zeal.
-
Am I really getting ripped for having a baseball opinion on an Astros message board? I love it.
How DARE you?
-
Am I really getting ripped for having a baseball opinion on an Astros message board? I love it.
is this your first day posting here?
-
Am I really getting ripped for having a baseball opinion on an Astros message board? I love it.
Please stick to personal anecdotes.
-
Am I really getting ripped for having a baseball opinion on an Astros message board? I love it.
You need a troll twelve step program.
-
Please stick to personal anecdotes.
I don't know. You can get ripped for those as well. It seems to me that the site will not have reached its state of perfection until the last posting was about a year before, and that it was to tell someone they'd been Cabrerad.
-
How DARE you?
At long last. Have you no DECENCY?
-
How DARE you?
is this your first day posting here?
Please stick to personal anecdotes.
You need a troll twelve step program.
Man, I'm off my game.
-
Man, I'm off my game.
Don't think of it as work. The whole point is just to enjoy yourself.
-
It seems to me that the site will not have reached its state of perfection until the last posting was about a year before, and that it was to tell someone they'd been Cabrerad.
Where have I heard that before?
-
These international stars seem to be less risky than the normal free agent market. Darvish, Cespedes, Puig, and Soler (still in the minors but is a top prospect) are all on average more bang for your buck than just the normal FA market where you get stuck with longer, more expensive contracts for guys in the tail ends of their careers.
But for every one of those, there is also a Kei Igawa or Daisuke Matsuzaka... That said... The guy I'd really love to see HOU in on is Masahiro Tanaka.
-
Is there still another Internt'l free agent that will generate alot of interest. A pitcher from Japan that is compared to Darvish. Tanaka I believe is the name.
There's a Korean pitcher coming over to try and capitalize on Ryu's success with the Doyers.
-
But for every one of those, there is also a Kei Igawa or Daisuke Matsuzaka... That said... The guy I'd really love to see HOU in on is Masahiro Tanaka.
The chinaman is not the issue here, dude. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand
-
Naw, man. I just admire your zeal.
It's about as excited as I've been about the current Astros team since 2009.
-
See, this I hate. This would work for the Yankees or Cards because the fountain of youth is overflowing in those places, but that never works here. I would rather spend this money on taking a risk on an unproven 26 yr old Cuban than overpaying a 31 yr old who will probably be worthless in 3 years. This team should be all about high upside risks right now.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/10/astros-could-pursue-choo-in-free-agency.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
-
I guess thing to do is to sign Choo, but not overpay him. He seems like a good fit to me.
-
Is this theory based on info from an actual source, or just dumbass Jon Heyman going "Gee, I guess the Astros might spend a little money on some player... hmmm, Luhnow seems like one of those Stat Guys, which means he loves on-base percentage... Hey, that guy Choo has a high on-base percentage!"
-
See, this I hate. This would work for the Yankees or Cards because the fountain of youth is overflowing in those places, but that never works here. I would rather spend this money on taking a risk on an unproven 26 yr old Cuban than overpaying a 31 yr old who will probably be worthless in 3 years. This team should be all about high upside risks right now.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/10/astros-could-pursue-choo-in-free-agency.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
You are assuming a fact that is not in evidence. What makes you assume that the Astros will overpay for Choo? Between Choo and Abreu, one of them is a proven big leaguer, and one isn't. I'll take big leaguers for $500, Alex. Let the White Sox fork over $68 million dollars for him; that was too much in my opinion too. The Astros were in on the bidding but simply weren't successful.
-
You are assuming a fact that is not in evidence. What makes you assume that the Astros will overpay for Choo? Between Choo and Abreu, one of them is a proven big leaguer, and one isn't. I'll take big leaguers for $500, Alex. Let the White Sox fork over $68 million dollars for him; that was too much in my opinion too. The Astros were in on the bidding but simply weren't successful.
I'm guessing he will want (and get from some team) at least 5 years and 9 figures. To me, that's too much and there isn't enough upside.
The whole "proven big leaguers" argument doesn't work. How many terrible proven big leaguer FA signings have we seen over the last year? This isn't really fair, but who would you rather have right now: Puig or Josh Hamilton? Darvish or Pujols? Hell, I'd take Cespedes over Pujols right now.
-
Because it's better if your bust is young and unproven than old and proven.
-
Because it's better if your bust is young and unproven than old and proven.
There's nothing wrong with a mature bust.
-
I'm guessing he will want (and get from some team) at least 5 years and 9 figures. To me, that's too much and there isn't enough upside.
The whole "proven big leaguers" argument doesn't work. How many terrible proven big leaguer FA signings have we seen over the last year? This isn't really fair, but who would you rather have right now: Puig or Josh Hamilton? Darvish or Pujols? Hell, I'd take Cespedes over Pujols right now.
In my opinion, your examples are outliers, and I doubt that he'll get what he wants if that in fact is what he wants. I'm in no way suggesting that the Astros should sign Choo. That'll depend upon a lot of factors, including Luhnow's assessment of what he has left in the tank. If Choo is anything like Ichiro, for example, his 30's may be very productive.
-
There's nothing wrong with a mature bust.
It's about knowing how to work a dick.
-
If Choo is anything like Ichiro, for example, his 30's may be very productive.
Gee, I wonder prompted that comparison.
-
Gee, I wonder prompted that comparison.
Another far eastern outfielder was my thinking there. Roadrunner was citing foreign players, so I wanted a decent comparison.
-
Gee, I wonder prompted that comparison.
They are both left-handed.