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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: roadrunner on March 07, 2013, 01:22:42 pm
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Lots of juicy stuff in this article. Highlights:
- Crane is now directly involved in Comcast negotiations
- Spring Training potentially relocated to Port St. Lucie or Arizona
- Streamlining minor league affiliates; trying to win back the hill country
- Crane tried to bring the All-Star Game back as part of the sale (but couldn't)
http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2013/03/07/astros-owner-jim-crane-on-minor-league-relocation-csn-houston-texas-rangers-all-star-game/
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The affiliate stuff is very interesting, especially if their commitment to overhauling the system is as strong as Crane implies. I can't imagine that sort of reorganization will be easy to pull off.
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Interesting that he brought up the club purchasing the affiliates. I like that he referred to the Rangers as an entity that had 'pushed them around.'
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I know if I am the negotiator for Directv, the argument that the price has to be more than the Rangers' deal with Fox will absolutely persuade me. Why didn't Crane think of that beauty earlier?
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http://blog.chron.com/sportsmedia/2013/03/crane-csn-houston-partners-wont-blink-in-price-carriage-negotiations/
Barron's column from Chron today.
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Maybe this is a stupid question, but if there is no TV deal will Astros game be available out of market to MLB Extra Innings subscribers?
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Maybe this is a stupid question, but if there is no TV deal will Astros game be available out of market to MLB Extra Innings subscribers?
I would think so since they will be shown to Comcast subscribers.
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I understand the Astros wanting to maximize the revenue they get out of this contract for the future, unfortunately for Crane I can't imagine a worse time in franchise history to be negotiating this contract. Interest in the Astros and Rockets (prior to this season) was at an all time low. Would signing a short term deal be an option? You know, dynamically price this years contract based on the demand?
If the team shows progress, plus a couple of the really interesting prospects make it up by the end of the year AND people get to watch them on TV, and the Rockets make the playoffs and prove to be a really interesting team to watch.... would they not be in a better spot to negotiate come October?
They make a bunch of fans happy, they make money that they wouldn't get if the season is blacked out and they don't sacrifice their revenue stream down the road.
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Seems like a nice middle ground. Might need to be more than one year though.
Interesting point on dynamic pricing. Crane certainly embraces the concept when he is on the receiving end.
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A DirecTV spokesman said the company stood by a statement last week that it wants “an agreement with the owners of CSN Houston that allows customers to choose whether they want to pay to see the games or not. We are ready and willing to have that discussion any time.”
Does this mean including the channel in different tiers or are they proposing the station be available as a premium package like HBO, Starz, etc? If the former, don't they already do this? FSSW is available in most of the tiers locally, but not in the basic. I don't see this really being an issue.
But, if it's the latter, that would seem to be setting a precedent. At least locally, the only channels you can add to a tier for an additional fee are the Premium channels. If you want Comcast Sports Northeast (or whatever), you have to subscribe to a higher package to get it. In that regard, it sounds like they want the benefit of a la carte pricing, but, of course, they'll never fully commit to the idea. Who gets shafted in this scenario is the customer, as they can charge whatever they want, and the Astros because they won't have nearly the number of subscribers in this scenario.
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Does this mean including the channel in different tiers or are they proposing the station be available as a premium package like HBO, Starz, etc?
...
But, if it's the latter, that would seem to be setting a precedent. At least locally, the only channels you can add to a tier for an additional fee are the Premium channels. If you want Comcast Sports Northeast (or whatever), you have to subscribe to a higher package to get it. In that regard, it sounds like they want the benefit of a la carte pricing, but, of course, they'll never fully commit to the idea. Who gets shafted in this scenario is the customer, as they can charge whatever they want, and the Astros because they won't have nearly the number of subscribers in this scenario.
See Networks, Longhorn and NFL. The sole reason Time Warner held out on NFL Network for so long was because TW wanted it to be a premium channel while the NFL wanted it on the standard tier. Same goes for Longhorn Network. TW finally capitulated last year on NFL Network but is still holding out on LHN.
And, of course, the cablecos' "we don't want to charge all of our subscribers $x.xx/month for [network name] if most of them won't watch it" argument is BS to begin with. I could easily go through TW's channel lineup and probably find at least $2-3 worth of channels I didn't know I had and would never watch. They add bullshit channels left and right all the time but they hold out on the high profile channels to try to make some sort of statement.
This will get worse before it gets better.
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If the deal doesn't get done this year does Crane think he's going to have more leverage next year?
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If the deal doesn't get done this year does Crane think he's going to have more leverage next year?
A) Yeah, because that'll be the year that Springer and Singleton and whomever else show up
B) Yeah, because he'll spring for some free agent who won't cost as much as they'd lose by settling with the carriers for less
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See Networks, Longhorn and NFL. The sole reason Time Warner held out on NFL Network for so long was because TW wanted it to be a premium channel while the NFL wanted it on the standard tier. Same goes for Longhorn Network. TW finally capitulated last year on NFL Network but is still holding out on LHN.
And, of course, the cablecos' "we don't want to charge all of our subscribers $x.xx/month for [network name] if most of them won't watch it" argument is BS to begin with. I could easily go through TW's channel lineup and probably find at least $2-3 worth of channels I didn't know I had and would never watch. They add bullshit channels left and right all the time but they hold out on the high profile channels to try to make some sort of statement.
This will get worse before it gets better.
Suddenlink has never had a problem raising rates, even without additional channels, so that argument doesn't hold water for them, either. That, the lack of channels I care about, and the lack of channels I do (CSN) helped make it pretty easy for me to cut them out and hook up a Roku. If they want to add content I care about, maybe I'll come back, but unfortunately, I know I'm in the minority.
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Getting to watch CSN while in Houston. Watching the season preview show. The stinking piece of crap Dick Justice is on the show, yapping about shit he doesn't understand: Astros' Baseball. Makes me miss this network less.
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BREAKING: (https://twitter.com/brianmctaggart/status/319213661602344960) Jim Crane says TV talks at "standstill"
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maybe he just wants to keep the astros hidden out
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Y'know, I'll take the move to the AL. One of those things we have no control over, and, frankly, isn't a big deal. New unis--best move so far by the org. Really bringing in the fans. But...second game of the year and I can't watch it just because I have DirecTV? Well, makes me right glad I bought that 8 game ticket package to the Skeeters. At least I can see some local baseball this year.
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slightly off but on the subject of roaches aka stranger the commericals her are packed with all kinds of deals and steals and all to do with the other texas team. kinda like pork the other white meat
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Y'know, I'll take the move to the AL. One of those things we have no control over, and, frankly, isn't a big deal. New unis--best move so far by the org. Really bringing in the fans. But...second game of the year and I can't watch it just because I have DirecTV? Well, makes me right glad I bought that 8 game ticket package to the Skeeters. At least I can see some local baseball this year.
The no TV is maddening. On that note, wife called DirecTV tonight and used the Astros line about our bill staying the same despite not being able to watch the Astros or Rockets. Customer service said there was nothing they could do, so my wife said then we would like to cancel. Magically, she got transferred talk to a manager, now we get 60 dollars off our bill for the next 6 months.
Rockets GM was on the radio today and mentioned Rockets fans doing similar and having similar results, that is what prompted us to call.
I wonder if enough people do this, if it puts more pressure on DirecTV. It means a lot more than signing a petition.
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i dont think that would work with time warner
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The no TV is maddening. On that note, wife called DirecTV tonight and used the Astros line about our bill staying the same despite not being able to watch the Astros or Rockets. Customer service said there was nothing they could do, so my wife said then we would like to cancel. Magically, she got transferred talk to a manager, now we get 60 dollars off our bill for the next 6 months.
Rockets GM was on the radio today and mentioned Rockets fans doing similar and having similar results, that is what prompted us to call.
I wonder if enough people do this, if it puts more pressure on DirecTV. It means a lot more than signing a petition.
The problem with this is that Comcast is shit. I will give up watching the Astros if the only way to do it is via Comcast.
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The no TV is maddening. On that note, wife called DirecTV tonight and used the Astros line about our bill staying the same despite not being able to watch the Astros or Rockets. Customer service said there was nothing they could do, so my wife said then we would like to cancel. Magically, she got transferred talk to a manager, now we get 60 dollars off our bill for the next 6 months.
Rockets GM was on the radio today and mentioned Rockets fans doing similar and having similar results, that is what prompted us to call.
I wonder if enough people do this, if it puts more pressure on DirecTV. It means a lot more than signing a petition.
You realize the game is on FSSW tonight, right?
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The problem with this is that Comcast is shit. I will give up watching the Astros if the only way to do it is via Comcast.
Agree with the Comcast, but now my DirecTV bill is $60 less every month.
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Agree with the Comcast, but now my DirecTV bill is $60 less every month.
I think you can often get some sort of discount on your cable bill just by threatening to cancel, regardless of your reason.
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I think you can often get some sort of discount on your cable bill just by threatening to cancel, regardless of your reason.
I tried this once with Time Warner when I upgraded to HD. We were in a north-facing apartment with almost no view of the sky so TW was our only meal ticket, but I tried to use the dish companies' lower prices as leverage. TW called my bluff and scheduled my service for disconnection the next day. Not sure if it's TW policy to not bother with customer retention or if I just happened across someone with a backbone, but I had to immediately backpedal and upgrade my service anyway. That was five years ago and I'm still too embarrassed to work up the guts to try again.
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You realize the game is on FSSW tonight, right?
I did. Was just passing on info for those that are displeased with their cable provider for not carrying CSN. If they aren't going to carry the 1 thing I watch more than anything else, then I didn't think they should be charging me the same price as they did last year. They agreed.
According to Daryl Morey, Uverse and DirecTV were also offering free NBA Ticket for to make up to Rocket fans that were getting blacked out of Rocket games.
Speaking of, if you get the MLB package, the Astros games would still be blacked out in Houston right?
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Speaking of, if you get the MLB package, the Astros games would still be blacked out in Houston right?
Yes.
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Speaking of, if you get the MLB package, the Astros games would still be blacked out in Houston right?
All of Texas and Louisiana.
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I did. Was just passing on info for those that are displeased with their cable provider for not carrying CSN. If they aren't going to carry the 1 thing I watch more than anything else, then I didn't think they should be charging me the same price as they did last year. They agreed.
According to Daryl Morey, Uverse and DirecTV were also offering free NBA Ticket for to make up to Rocket fans that were getting blacked out of Rocket games.
Speaking of, if you get the MLB package, the Astros games would still be blacked out in Houston right?
I think the answer to the blackout question is "yes." I bought the MLB package a few years ago and they were blacked out in Austin.
The NBA ticket point seems very odd to me. First, it's like $200, a lot more value than a $10/month discount. Second, it does not overcome blackout restrictions, based on my experience at least. I can get the Rockets in Austin, as they are not blacked out, but the Spurs are blacked out and I cannot get the CSN feed through the NBA package, or the Spurs Fox feed either. I have to watch the Spurs telecast on the Direct tv Fox channel. I would expect a similar situation within the Rocket's blackout area.
I noticed last night that the free version of the MLB package (lasts a week or so) didn't black out the game in Austin. I guess MLB wants to give the impression that the games won't be blacked out in order to lure you in. Pretty deceptive, IMO.
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I noticed last night that the free version of the MLB package (lasts a week or so) didn't black out the game in Austin. I guess MLB wants to give the impression that the games won't be blacked out in order to lure you in. Pretty deceptive, IMO.
They're not making any impression that the games won't be blacked out, just tying to convince you of what you'll be missing. Nothing deceptive about offering a "free trial".
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What about MLB.TV? Are the Astros' games blacked out on it too?
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What about MLB.TV? Are the Astros' games blacked out on it too?
Yes.
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What about MLB.TV? Are the Astros' games blacked out on it too?
MLB.TV shares the same blackout restrictions as Extra Innings.
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They're not making any impression that the games won't be blacked out, just tying to convince you of what you'll be missing. Nothing deceptive about offering a "free trial".
If they don't blackout during the trial period what is normally blacked out during the season, that is the definition of deceptive.
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They're not making any impression that the games won't be blacked out, just tying to convince you of what you'll be missing. Nothing deceptive about offering a "free trial".
If you are unaware, seeing an Astros game in the black out area during the free period might lead you to think "Hey, I can get Astros games this way." Alternatively, MLB could black the games out during the free period and one might logically conclude that buying the package won't get you Astros games, cause they are blacked out.
To avoid deception, show only what you aim to deliver, and nothing more.
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If you are unaware, seeing an Astros game in the black out area during the free period might lead you to think "Hey, I can get Astros games this way." Alternatively, MLB could black the games out during the free period and one might logically conclude that buying the package won't get you Astros games, cause they are blacked out.
To avoid deception, show only what you aim to deliver, and nothing more.
I've corrected several people here in SA that think they could get the Astros by getting MLB.tv. But there's nothing (legal) we can do about it, except move out of state.
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The NBA ticket point seems very odd to me. First, it's like $200, a lot more value than a $10/month discount.
DirecTV is giving us a $60 discount a month, for 6 months. They said if it still isn't resolved at the end of 6 months, they will extend the discount another 6 months. That is worth more than triple the NBA package.
Im now trying to figure out how much it would cost to have Comcast and DirecTV. Their website is kinda confusing though, the basic cable package is ~$50 for 6 months, but if you click on the link of channels it doesn't list CSN. Anyone know if thats correct? Probably just end up calling them tonight.
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I noticed last night that the free version of the MLB package (lasts a week or so) didn't black out the game in Austin. I guess MLB wants to give the impression that the games won't be blacked out in order to lure you in. Pretty deceptive, IMO.
Interesting... The CSN feed WAS blacked out on Time Warner here in Waco, and TWC often seems to consider Waco a subset of the Austin market.
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Wow, $60 a month! That is a nice discount. I'm still in the 2 year contract, so I'm not sure I'm in a position to demand things.
BUW, on Direct TV, they only had the Rangers feed, and I watched it there for a bit. Some games have both feeds and some games have only one. Never understood why.
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If they don't blackout during the trial period what is normally blacked out during the season, that is the definition of deceptive.
So if I offer you "30 days free....If you don't feel it's the best you've ever tried, send it back" it's "deceptive"? When DirecTV gives me free HBO for a month to entice people to sign up, you think they're tricking people into it?
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So if I offer you "30 days free....If you don't feel it's the best you've ever tried, send it back" it's "deceptive"?
I tried that with a girl I liked....
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So if I offer you "30 days free....If you don't feel it's the best you've ever tried, send it back" it's "deceptive"? When DirecTV gives me free HBO for a month to entice people to sign up, you think they're tricking people into it?
When DirecTV gives you free HBO for a month, you can still get HBO once that month is done. You won't have paid a year's price for the premium channels and then get every movie channel except HBO.
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When DirecTV gives you free HBO for a month, you can still get HBO once that month is done. You won't have paid a year's price for the premium channels and then get every movie channel except HBO.
You're not paying anything for Extra Innings now. They make it painfully obvious when you sign up to pay for it, however, that games are subject to blackout.
I guess I just don't thing people are that stupid, in general.
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I guess I just don't thing people are that stupid, in general.
And yet Rick Perry keeps getting elected.
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Interesting... The CSN feed WAS blacked out on Time Warner here in Waco, and TWC often seems to consider Waco a subset of the Austin market.
I think in a market like Waco, Fox may have an exclusivity deal when the Rangers are playing another team in their blackout zone. I know that when the Rays play the Marlins, sometimes I get only the Rays feed.
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And yet Rick Perry keeps getting elected.
Well played counselor.
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slightly off but on the subject of roaches aka stranger the commericals her are packed with all kinds of deals and steals and all to do with the other texas team. kinda like pork the other white meat
Can you get half off Papa John's pizzas in Houston if the Rangers score 7?
We here in Austin got that commercial on both the Sunday night ESPN broadcast and the Tuesday night FSSW broadcast.
I did like seeing Patti Smith though. At least there is one non-douche bag on that broadcast crew now. Jim Knox was atrocious as the Rangers guy in recent years. It was tough to see her interview Rangers fans though. Especially the one who told her, "the Rangers are Texas' team".
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Can you get half off Papa John's pizzas in Houston if the Rangers score 7?
We here in Austin got that commercial on both the Sunday night ESPN broadcast and the Tuesday night FSSW broadcast.
I did like seeing Patti Smith though. At least there is one non-douche bag on that broadcast crew now. Jim Knox was atrocious as the Rangers guy in recent years. It was tough to see her interview Rangers fans though. Especially the one who told her, "the Rangers are Texas' team".
I don't think Patti is doing all Ranger games. Only because they were in Houston is what I read.
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MLB.TV shares the same blackout restrictions as Extra Innings.
How does it determine blackout area? By billing credit card address, IP, etc? For example, can I pay a friend who lives in Boston to buy it for me and watch in Houston or will it still be BO'd? I imagine MLB has its bases covered in that regard but still curious.
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How does it determine blackout area? By billing credit card address, IP, etc? For example, can I pay a friend who lives in Boston to buy it for me and watch in Houston or will it still be BO'd? I imagine MLB has its bases covered in that regard but still curious.
IP address. My billing address is Houston but my IP address isn't. That's why the various proxy services are effective.
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How does it determine blackout area? By billing credit card address, IP, etc? For example, can I pay a friend who lives in Boston to buy it for me and watch in Houston or will it still be BO'd? I imagine MLB has its bases covered in that regard but still curious.
MLB has spy sattelites, they know where you are and everything you do.
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MLB has spy sattelites, they know where you are and everything you do. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riNIjE-J4NQ)
YTIFY
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May 10 - next opportunity to see Astros on television.
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mlb channel april 5
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John P. Lopez - yes, that John P. Lopez - weighs in on the CSN controversy (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/14/mayor-parker-should-follow-the-money-what-you-dont-know-about-comcast-astros-rockets-negotiations/). Of course, he gets it completely wrong.
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John P. Lopez - yes, that John P. Lopez - weighs in on the CSN controversy (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/14/mayor-parker-should-follow-the-money-what-you-dont-know-about-comcast-astros-rockets-negotiations/). Of course, he gets it completely wrong.
When an unpopular company doing unpopular things needs a newsprint lackey, there are few better choices than John P. Lopez.
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That’s why if Mayor Annise Parker truly wants to help settle the impasse, she should demand that carriage providers refund or credit all Houston-area TV viewers the money they have been charging every month for a service they have not provided. That sum is in the millions.
Money charged for a service not provided? What is he talking about?
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Money charged for a service not provided? What is he talking about?
You're paying the same amount that you did last year, but this year you're not getting the Astros programming. It's not entirely illogical. Just mostly.
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Money charged for a service not provided? What is he talking about?
Despite still still carrying FSH, non-Comcast providers will give you a refund for being pissed of that they don't carry CSN, therefore they are charging you for the Astros, Rockets and Dynamo but not giving you those games, therefore they are bad and the guys who pay me to do commercials for them Comcast are good.
Simples.
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In the past, for years I paid for Cable and got to watch Lost. Now, Lost is no longer being aired, and yet I am paying the same price. I need a refund.
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In the past, for years I paid for Cable and got to watch Lost. Now, Lost is no longer being aired, and yet I am paying the same price. I need a refund.
We have to go back!
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"Comcast Sports Net is an entirely different thing from Comcast the cable provider. "
Eh, no. Lying about it won't change anything. The cable/satellite providers don't want to pay their competitor Comcast for the privilege of carrying the network...especially if the product is shit. If they thought showing the Astros would increase subscriptions, they'd do it in a heartbeat. Note that providers that have no presence in Houston (like, for example, Time Warner) are not ponying up the extra money, either.
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In the past, for years I paid for Cable and got to watch Lost. Now, Lost is no longer being aired, and yet I am paying the same price. I need a refund.
This is basically exactly my takeaway from the whole thing. Lopez is far too stupid to try to distract the public with his monkey grinder routine.
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John P. Lopez - yes, that John P. Lopez - weighs in on the CSN controversy (http://houston.cbslocal.com/2013/04/14/mayor-parker-should-follow-the-money-what-you-dont-know-about-comcast-astros-rockets-negotiations/). Of course, he gets it completely wrong.
For the past nine months at least, carriage providers like AT&T U-verse and DirecTV have charged TV viewers every month for Astros, Rockets and Dynamo games. They have aired none.
There were no Astros games on those providers after July 15th last year?
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When an unpopular company doing unpopular things needs a newsprint lackey, there are few better choices than John P. Lopez.
It's even funnier than that. John P. Lopez is not a newsprint lakey... he is a fellow electronic sports media lakey.
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"Comcast Sports Net is an entirely different thing from Comcast the cable provider. "
Eh, no. Lying about it won't change anything.
Right. Does Lopez want us to believe it's just a complete coincidence that the only major carrier with Comcast SportsNet is Comcast cable?
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Right. Does Lopez want us to believe it's just a complete coincidence that the only major carrier with Comcast SportsNet is Comcast cable?
Does he also really believe that UVerse/DirecTV/Dish, etc aren't carrying Comcast simply because they don't want to carry a channel with the Comcast name? Does he not realize that all of those providers already carry a host of Comcast Sports channels? It isn't possible for Lopez to be that fucking stupid, is it?
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It isn't possible for Lopez to be that fucking stupid, is it?
You keep overestimating certain people's intelligence.
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Does he also really believe that UVerse/DirecTV/Dish, etc aren't carrying Comcast simply because they don't want to carry a channel with the Comcast name? Does he not realize that all of those providers already carry a host of Comcast Sports channels? It isn't possible for Lopez to be that fucking stupid, is it?
For example: Comcast SportsNet California (CSNCA) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comcast_SportsNet_California)
This broadcast channel is carried by DirectTV and Dish in terms of satellite providers. In terms of cable, you have to check with the local providers in the area (Northern California), but they do carry it. BTW - John X. Lopez's plea that the providers get three-in-one benefits, well... the CSNCA provides four-in-one (Oakland A's, San Jose Sharks, Sacramento Kings, and San Jose Earthquakes). That is just in terms of pro-sports. They get a whole bunch of college teams as well (I'm sure CSNHouston does as well for that matter).
It's not rocket surgery to do a little bit... I mean, just a wee tiny bit... of research.
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By the way, are the mlb.tv archives blacked out also or can those of you in Texas and wherever else watch archived Astros games?
These games last so goddam long that those of you who need more misery in your lives (but less Comcast, sort of a yin and yang of misery I guess) might be better off just watching yesterday's game at 6 or 7 in the evening. Plus, if gratuitous gore is a problem you can zip right through the grisly parts.
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By the way, are the mlb.tv archives blacked out also or can those of you in Texas and wherever else watch archived Astros games?
These games last so goddam long that those of you who need more misery in your lives (but less Comcast, sort of a yin and yang of misery I guess) might be better off just watching yesterday's game at 6 or 7 in the evening. Plus, if gratuitous gore is a problem you can zip right through the grisly parts.
When I bought an mlb.tv subscription a few years ago, I actually did this for west coast games. I would go back and watch the game the next day during my lunch break (scrubbed through the commercials). They also had a feature back then called "condensed" game and that was just as good... but I preferred scrubbing through innings on my own. So I don't know now how it works, but the archived games back when I used the feature were available to people within the market rights of the club.
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By the way, are the mlb.tv archives blacked out also or can those of you in Texas and wherever else watch archived Astros games?
These games last so goddam long that those of you who need more misery in your lives (but less Comcast, sort of a yin and yang of misery I guess) might be better off just watching yesterday's game at 6 or 7 in the evening. Plus, if gratuitous gore is a problem you can zip right through the grisly parts.
I'm not in Texas but still in the Central time zone so I can watch most all of these games if I could stay up long enough. I just went back and checked and yesterday's train wreck is available on mlb.tv.
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I'm not in Texas but still in the Central time zone so I can watch most all of these games if I could stay up long enough. I just went back and checked and yesterday's train wreck is available on mlb.tv.
Pretty sure that archived games are available to any subscriber, though I ain't swearin' to nothin'...
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Loren Steffy of the Houston Chronicle weighs in on the matter (http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/steffy/article/Blame-for-TV-blackouts-begins-with-the-teams-4439808.php?cmpid=atfpm&t=12078a9196b05374ef). Very well laid out opinion piece by the business writer/columnist. Therein lays the difference between a reporter/journalist and a hack for a sports radio network.
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Loren Steffy of the Houston Chronicle weighs in on the matter (http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/steffy/article/Blame-for-TV-blackouts-begins-with-the-teams-4439808.php?cmpid=atfpm&t=12078a9196b05374ef). Very well laid out opinion piece by the business writer/columnist. Therein lays the difference between a reporter/journalist and a hack for a sports radio network.
I don't agree with his opinion. The Astros/Rockets are trying to line up a distribution deal that will be in place for at least the next decade (I assume). If they compromise their position it should be because the economic return is still beneficial over that period of time. Compromising their position because the city financed their stadiums is short-sighted, and honestly shouldn't be even a part of the equation. Crane said it best (or not best, to several angry fans), this is a private company with a public flair. Yes the city financed the stadium but Houstonians voted for it. I don't agree that public financing for stadiums produces the benefits and return that local goverments anticipated, but because the city was stupid to go along with it doesn't mean the Astros or Rockets should try to correct that mistake with these negotiations.
Which brings me to another point, sacrificing future dollars to watch a shitty Astros team and a young (talented) Rockets team is not going to make the fan experience better. This is more directly related to the Astros since the NBA distributes total dollars more evenly - but the more dollars the organizations have over the next decade, the better the chances are for more competitive teams, and therefore the better the chances are for more playoffs/championships and all of the other feel good things that sports teams bring to a city. So compromising just so that fans can watch these teams now doesn't make sense even if the organizations feel like they did "owe it to the city".
ps - it was nice to see TK's get a shoutout in the article. Love that bar.
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It is tough to form an opinion on this since we don't much, let alone all the info that is going into the negotiations. Greg Lucas tweeted out that the Astros are seeking for more than double what DirecTV was paying for FSSW. I have no idea how much that is. I would be interested in comparing the Rangers deal to what the Astros are asking/DirecTV is offereing
I still don't understand why a short term, 1-3 year deal couldn't be struck. That doesn't ruin their revenue streams for the future. Plus (hopefully) in 2 years they are going to be in a much better position to bargain. Currently this team and the interest in this team is at an all-time low.
But maybe DirecTV is the one being unreasonable, if they were you think the Astros would e specific with what they are doing to be unreasonable.
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It is tough to form an opinion on this since we don't much, let alone all the info that is going into the negotiations. Greg Lucas tweeted out that the Astros are seeking for more than double what DirecTV was paying for FSSW. I have no idea how much that is. I would be interested in comparing the Rangers deal to what the Astros are asking/DirecTV is offereing
I still don't understand why a short term, 1-3 year deal couldn't be struck. That doesn't ruin their revenue streams for the future. Plus (hopefully) in 2 years they are going to be in a much better position to bargain. Currently this team and the interest in this team is at an all-time low.
But maybe DirecTV is the one being unreasonable, if they were you think the Astros would e specific with what they are doing to be unreasonable.
That's exactly it. Nobody knows except the brokers involved in the deal. I probably come off like I'm defending the Astros/Rockets/Comcast, but I'm trying not to. I am just avoiding siding with either party because we don't know the details are other than a couple of random claims from anonymous sources at the Houston Press and other publications.
If Steffy has an opinion that the Astros and Rockets are being unreasonable in their negotiations based on the terms they are demanding, then I understand. Using unrelated public financing is not enough for me to respect his opinion.
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Navin, furthermore...
I've thought about the short term deal structure, too. My guess is that Comcast proposed it and the carriers said no. Think about it - once you give fans a taste of the network and they enjoy it as the product gets better, it will significantly decrease the carriers' leverage when they are up for renewal. Not picking up the channel at its inception is one thing, but taking it away from viewers after they have had it will make the carriers look like the bad guy. And at that point I would assume Comcast has extended its reach on Houston households and therefore it would be easier for people to switch carriers.
You never hear about carriers electing not to renew regional networks or even have standoff negotiations...and I'm guessing this is why.
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You never hear about carriers electing not to renew regional networks or even have standoff negotiations...and I'm guessing this is why.
All good points, wanted to touch on this last one. I thought it was somewhat common place. I remember lots of chatter about this last year, people said don't worry, these things always get worked out in the last minute.
But either way. This situation sucks royally, and it doesn't appear there is any end in sight.
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All good points, wanted to touch on this last one. I thought it was somewhat common place. I remember lots of chatter about this last year, people said don't worry, these things always get worked out in the last minute.
For renewals? I honestly don't remember if there were standoffs to the last minute, but a deal always got done.
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I guess you guys missed his point about getting public money to get off the ground with this network? I'm not saying Steff is completely right, but he makes one solid point: The public is the big loser in this deal while two rich entities fight it out to see who gets the most of the pie. And it is the Astros who have more at stake when it comes to public trust (as it were). Shame on both sides.
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I guess you guys missed his point about getting public money to get off the ground with this network? I'm not saying Steff is completely right, but he makes one solid point. The public is the big loser in this deal while two rich entities fight it out to see who gets the most of the pie. Shame on both sides.
See Strike, NFL; Strike, NHL; Strike, NBA; Strike, MLB etc. etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseam.
I really wish I didn't give a shit about sports.
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See Strike, NFL; Strike, NHL; Strike, NBA; Strike, MLB etc. etc. ad infinitum, ad nauseam.
I really wish I didn't give a shit about sports.
Steff's point about the re-sell of the network being a common occurence amongst the mlb teams was eye-opening to me. If the intent is to garner ROI for his investors (Crane that is), then one has to wonder if the whole "I want the best deal to go ahead and sign free agents" is just a half-truth. If the real reason is to sell back the network to NBC Sports Group or Comcast because it's proved to be a good deal over time, then Crane can't be stuck with a long-term unbalanced deal where the providers have a lot of stake in the game. Crane (and also Alexander) are not really in the broadcast business for a long-term tenure (that's not their business, pun intended)... it's just another way to cash in using the buy back scheme with the team as collateral (as it were). This is very interesting to me and cast more of a light on the matter than before.
Steff's point to have Her Honor tread lightly when choosing sides on this mess is well advised.
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It is tough to form an opinion on this since we don't much, let alone all the info that is going into the negotiations. Greg Lucas tweeted out that the Astros are seeking for more than double what DirecTV was paying for FSSW. I have no idea how much that is. I would be interested in comparing the Rangers deal to what the Astros are asking/DirecTV is offereing
I still don't understand why a short term, 1-3 year deal couldn't be struck. That doesn't ruin their revenue streams for the future. Plus (hopefully) in 2 years they are going to be in a much better position to bargain. Currently this team and the interest in this team is at an all-time low.
But maybe DirecTV is the one being unreasonable, if they were you think the Astros would e specific with what they are doing to be unreasonable.
Factor in the re-sell of the network into the equation and what does that do to any idea of a short-term deal (by either side)? It basically kills the idea for the Astros. They need a long-term deal that will pay off huge dividends when they do sell back the network to NBCSports. So they cannot afford to have 1) a short-term deal delay their plans and 2) a bad long-term deal where the equity is shared with providers and makes a sell back harder.
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Factor in the re-sell of the network into the equation and what does that do to any idea of a short-term deal (by either side)? It basically kills the idea for the Astros. They need a long-term deal that will pay off huge dividends when they do sell back the network to NBCSports. So they cannot afford to have 1) a short-term deal delay their plans and 2) a bad long-term deal where the equity is shared with providers and makes a sell back harder.
That makes sense, but sucks for the remaining folks that want to watch the team. Starting to look like we are not going to watch baseball this year, unless we switch providers (assuming you have access to Comcast) or illegally watch games over the internet. What a cluster fuck. FYB.
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maybe cluster fuck should be the astros new mantra oh wait it is
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Greg Lucas tweeted out that the Astros are seeking for more than double what DirecTV was paying for FSSW. I have no idea how much that is. I would be interested in comparing the Rangers deal to what the Astros are asking/DirecTV is offereing
Someone posted here 1-2 months ago that the Astros/Rockets were asking in the neighborhood of $2.00-2.50/subscriber/month. Using 2010 numbers (http://consumerist.com/2010/03/09/list-of-subscriber-fees-shows-what-you-pay-for-channels-you-hate/), that would put CSN Houston safely in the top 3 for cable subscriber fees, rivaled only by ESPN ($4.08) and Fox Sports Net ($2.37).
By comparison Longhorn Network (still not picked up by Time Warner, Comcast, Cox, DirecTV, or Dish) was asking $0.40 which is top 10-15 territory.
If all those numbers are legit then it doesn't look good for CSN.
Of course, if I could, I would happily drop 30-40 of the bullshit channels like Wedding Central to compensate for CSN Houston's fee.
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The Astros gave me 2 free tickets to Monday's game against the Mariners for signing up at the CSN website. King Felix is pitching. Not bad.
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Someone posted here 1-2 months ago that the Astros/Rockets were asking in the neighborhood of $2.00-2.50/subscriber/month. Using 2010 numbers (http://consumerist.com/2010/03/09/list-of-subscriber-fees-shows-what-you-pay-for-channels-you-hate/), that would put CSN Houston safely in the top 3 for cable subscriber fees, rivaled only by ESPN ($4.08) and Fox Sports Net ($2.37).
By comparison Longhorn Network (still not picked up by Time Warner, Comcast, Cox, DirecTV, or Dish) was asking $0.40 which is top 10-15 territory.
If all those numbers are legit then it doesn't look good for CSN.
Of course, if I could, I would happily drop 30-40 of the bullshit channels like Wedding Central to compensate for CSN Houston's fee.
I heard 3.20 a month increase (was the asking price by the Comcast crew). Dish, DirectTV and the rest said no really quickly. Can't verify the number though, so it's hearsay pretty much.
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Someone posted here 1-2 months ago that the Astros/Rockets were asking in the neighborhood of $2.00-2.50/subscriber/month. Using 2010 numbers (http://consumerist.com/2010/03/09/list-of-subscriber-fees-shows-what-you-pay-for-channels-you-hate/), that would put CSN Houston safely in the top 3 for cable subscriber fees, rivaled only by ESPN ($4.08) and Fox Sports Net ($2.37).
By comparison Longhorn Network (still not picked up by Time Warner, Comcast, Cox, DirecTV, or Dish) was asking $0.40 which is top 10-15 territory.
If all those numbers are legit then it doesn't look good for CSN.
Of course, if I could, I would happily drop 30-40 of the bullshit channels like Wedding Central to compensate for CSN Houston's fee.
BTW - there is something so empowering about a la carte channel choices. One day, in the not so distant future (or maybe distant), the digital world will provide a service for "choose yer own". With all the devices and choices, all it would take is some sort of brilliant essay on stomping on our basic human rights and privileges to make it happen. Soon as said essay/oration has some tailwind, watch how the public (first) will jump on-board and the politicians will follow soon after.
Storm the Bastille, you freaks!
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Of course, if I could, I would happily drop 30-40 of the bullshit channels like Wedding Central to compensate for CSN Houston's fee.
I would gladly pay the extra $3, $4, $10, etc.. a month to be able to watch Astros, Rockets, Dynamo. Doesn't sound like that is ever going to be an option though.
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I would gladly pay the extra $3, $4, $10, etc.. a month to be able to watch Astros, Rockets, Dynamo. Doesn't sound like that is ever going to be an option though.
I understand that the Astros and Comcast see that as bad business on the part of the providers. Only thing I can sumise is that if you price as an add-on feature, it gives most casual fans all the more reason to say they will do without the product. And no product means no revenue eventually and most especially makes the product unattractive as a sell-back (even if they're a winning team). However, that only seems to be a question of whether the providers like DirectTV provide the product/network as an add-on product (such as ExtraInnings, et. al.)
If the providers were to add the product to regular lineup, such as the NFL Network is now on most providers, then the bump in your cable/satellite bill goes up... and that is across the board (to all DirectTV/all providers customers). I can see how DirectTV might feel that is not going to sit well with folks who could care less about the Astros, Dynamo, and Rockets (especially in areas such as LA and OK and parts of Texas that have those providers). Hence the cost bump needs to be justifiable (and sellable). I see that as the sticking point to this whole negotiation: what is the sellable price (for providers) that also makes money for the network (long-term) and makes the product feasible for a sell-back in the future (because it's a cash cow for everyone). They don't seem to agree on that figure.
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I would gladly pay the extra $3, $4, $10, etc.. a month to be able to watch Astros, Rockets, Dynamo. Doesn't sound like that is ever going to be an option though.
I'd pay $3 or $4 but not $10.
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did everyone get offered their tickets to the 22 game for telling your cable company to get comcast
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did everyone get offered their tickets to the 22 game for telling your cable company to get comcast
I did.
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I did too, but I can't use mine. Free to the first PM...
ETA: Gone now.
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I did too, but I can't use mine. Free to the first PM...
How did you get it?
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Of course, if I could, I would happily drop 30-40 of the bullshit channels like Wedding Central to compensate for CSN Houston's fee.
This is the part that doesn't ring true to me from the cable providers. "We don't want to charge people for channels they don't want to watch!" Umm, you already do that with 90% of your channels to 90% of your subscribers.
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This is the part that doesn't ring true to me from the cable providers. "We don't want to charge people for channels they don't want to watch!" Umm, you already do that with 90% of your channels to 90% of your subscribers.
That's their whole business plan. That's also the Astros plan: to be able to get part of the subscription fees from people who don't watch sports.
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How did you get it?
Early on, I did the online 'pester your carrier to get CSN' thing and I guess that registered me as a loyal miscreant.
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Early on, I did the online 'pester your carrier to get CSN' thing and I guess that registered me as a loyal miscreant.
Fellow miscreant here too. I wonder if I could obtain the duckets and shoot them someone like you. Going out of town this weekend and into next week.
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CSN has offered carriers a free view of the channel (http://blog.chron.com/sportsmedia/2013/04/csn-houston-offering-free-access-to-network-through-may-to-all-cable-satellite-and-telco-providers/) through May.
The offer would provide all subscribers of the participating carriers, if any or all chose to accept the offer, to the network’s coverage of the Rockets’ upcoming NBA playoff games in their best-of-seven series against the Thunder plus five Dynamo soccer games and to Astros games against the Red Sox, Yankees, Tigers, Rangers, Angels, Pirates, Royals, A’s and Rockies over the next month.
I guess the strategy is that customers will be upset with the carriers if the channel is given to them and then taken away.
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CSN has offered carriers a free view of the channel (http://blog.chron.com/sportsmedia/2013/04/csn-houston-offering-free-access-to-network-through-may-to-all-cable-satellite-and-telco-providers/) through May.
The offer would provide all subscribers of the participating carriers, if any or all chose to accept the offer, to the network’s coverage of the Rockets’ upcoming NBA playoff games in their best-of-seven series against the Thunder plus five Dynamo soccer games and to Astros games against the Red Sox, Yankees, Tigers, Rangers, Angels, Pirates, Royals, A’s and Rockies over the next month.
I guess the strategy is that customers will be upset with the carriers if the channel is given to them and then taken away.
What's silly, is that one of the Rockets' two remaining games this year is going to be on national teevee. If they manage to survive longer, the next game is on the road and not subject to local blackout.
If any of the refusniks take up this offer, I'll be gobsmacked.
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What's silly, is that one of the Rockets' two remaining games this year is going to be on national teevee. If they manage to survive longer, the next game is on the road and not subject to local blackout.
I thought all the playoff games were on TNT/ESPN/ABC.
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I thought all the playoff games were on TNT/ESPN/ABC.
IIRC, the home games are Seliged blacked out, at least in the early rounds.
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IIRC, the home games are Seliged blacked out, at least in the early rounds.
I believe that's only true if the games air on NBA TV. If it's nationally broadcast on ESPN or TNT (which the next two home games are) it will not be blacked out. Worked the same way in the regular season.
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I believe that's only true if the games air on NBA TV. If it's nationally broadcast on ESPN or TNT (which the next two home games are) it will not be blacked out. Worked the same way in the regular season.
In related news: Westbrook is out for the season (http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9214995/russell-westbrook-oklahoma-city-thunder-knee-surgery)
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In related news: Westbrook is out for the season (http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2013/story/_/id/9214995/russell-westbrook-oklahoma-city-thunder-knee-surgery)
That was stunning. I had no idea, and then I pulled up ESPN this afternoon just to see what was going on and saw the news. If I remember correctly, he had never missed a game in HS, college, or the pros. Now this. I don't think there's anybody stopping the Heat now (not that there was much of a chance before).