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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: Ron Brand on May 20, 2012, 11:09:22 pm

Title: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Ron Brand on May 20, 2012, 11:09:22 pm
Docs think he tore his ACL (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/berkman-weighs-future-while-awaiting-mri/article_9e04fea2-a2c2-11e1-ba20-001a4bcf6878.html#.T7l43GyTsHk.twitter).

Quote
Berkman’s season appears increasingly in doubt as he seeks a magnetic resonance imaging today. Saturday night’s initial diagnosis suggested he suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament, which would effectively end his season if confirmed today.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Mr. Happy on May 20, 2012, 11:15:01 pm
If that's the case, then to me he's done. I just don't see him doing the work that it would take to come back.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: HudsonHawk on May 21, 2012, 07:29:57 am
If that's the case, then to me he's done. I just don't see him doing the work that it would take to come back.

Maybe he'll get picked up by another team, say nasty rotten things about St Louis, then go to work doing what he was unwilling to before the injury. 
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: subnuclear on May 21, 2012, 09:03:32 am
Maybe be a good DH in the future?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: ValpoCory on May 21, 2012, 09:48:27 am
Maybe he'll get picked up by another team, say nasty rotten things about St Louis, then go to work doing what he was unwilling to before the injury. 

Isn't that what most recently divorced people do?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: JackAstro on May 21, 2012, 10:05:00 am
Maybe he'll get picked up by another team, say nasty rotten things about St Louis, then go to work doing what he was unwilling to before the injury. 

Blue star.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Fredia on May 21, 2012, 10:20:38 am
hope if it is over he goes with grace..if not he goes back to the astros
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Navin R Johnson on May 21, 2012, 11:03:32 am
Blue star.

Speaking of, SIAP...

Milo's Blue star gets crushed by Carlos.

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/cutfour/article.jsp?content_id=30821586&c_id=hou
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Limey on May 21, 2012, 11:17:18 am
Speaking of, SIAP...

Milo's Blue star gets crushed by Carlos.

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/cutfour/article.jsp?content_id=30821586&c_id=hou

The way Lee is hitting this year, the safest place is the outfield.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Matt on May 21, 2012, 11:45:15 am
Speaking of, SIAP...

Milo's Blue star gets crushed by Carlos.

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/cutfour/article.jsp?content_id=30821586&c_id=hou

Carlos trying to give Milo an extra push out of the booth.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Reuben on May 21, 2012, 01:02:37 pm
The way Lee is hitting this year, the safest place is the outfield.
Hate to break it to you, but he's not exactly terrible this year. .295/.356/.432 may not be worth his contract, but it's nothing to sneeze at, either.
Title: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: geezerdonk on May 21, 2012, 03:47:15 pm
Hate to break it to you, but he's not exactly terrible this year. .295/.356/.432 may not be worth his contract, but it's nothing to sneeze at, either.

Not to mention the great year he is having at the buffet table - it may be his best yet.

He is a first year eligible, unanimous lock for BHOF.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Mr. Happy on May 21, 2012, 03:52:25 pm
Hate to break it to you, but he's not exactly terrible this year. .295/.356/.432 may not be worth his contract, but it's nothing to sneeze at, either.

While Limey is not paying as much attention to the team this season in mourning over the impending move to the Junior Circuit, I think that he was being facetious. Check your sarc-meter. My broken one even went off.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Reuben on May 21, 2012, 04:14:57 pm
Not to mention the great year he is having at the buffet table - it may be his best yet.

He is a first year eligible, unanimous lock for BHOF.
Oh, that is rather humorous! You are making a buffet-related remark because he is a large fellow! I had not heard such remarks ever before associated with the chap! Ho, ho, clever, indeed!
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Reuben on May 21, 2012, 04:25:42 pm
While Limey is not paying as much attention to the team this season in mourning over the impending move to the Junior Circuit, I think that he was being facetious. Check your sarc-meter. My broken one even went off.
Yeah, it registered a ping or two on the meter, I guess I've just read enough "Carlos Lee is ______ (fat, a bad fielder, past his prime, sucks, whatever), aren't the Astros stupid to be paying him so much money" comments elsewhere on the web, from people who don't know anything about the Astros except that Lee is on the team and Oswalt used to be, that it gets a bit old reading joke after joke at his expense here. Is he close to the hitter he used to be? No, but he's doing pretty well, and he's even played a fine 1B to my eyes. It's not really his fault that Drayton and Purpura threw a silly amount of money at him. He is what he is at this point and he seems to be a decent guy, so I don't see the point in dogging him on the internet.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Mr. Happy on May 21, 2012, 04:42:00 pm
Yeah, it registered a ping or two on the meter, I guess I've just read enough "Carlos Lee is ______ (fat, a bad fielder, past his prime, sucks, whatever), aren't the Astros stupid to be paying him so much money" comments elsewhere on the web, from people who don't know anything about the Astros except that Lee is on the team and Oswalt used to be, that it gets a bit old reading joke after joke at his expense here. Is he close to the hitter he used to be? No, but he's doing pretty well, and he's even played a fine 1B to my eyes. It's not really his fault that Drayton and Purpura threw a silly amount of money at him. He is what he is at this point and he seems to be a decent guy, so I don't see the point in dogging him on the internet.

In my opinion, Lee is now much less of a power hitter than he used to be, but he's still a plus big league hitter. I also think that he's been good for the younger players on the club. I'm glad that he's still here for now, but if we can get something for him in July, then we should take it.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: sporadic on May 21, 2012, 05:00:12 pm
In my opinion, Lee is now much less of a power hitter than he used to be, but he's still a plus big league hitter. I also think that he's been good for the younger players on the club. I'm glad that he's still here for now, but if we can get something for him in July, then we should take it.

I'll one up you, I would not mind having him back next year (at the right price).  Having a professional hitter (that can play multiple positions) AIN'T a bad guy to have on your roster - and not the worst guy to have young hitters pay some attention to, I might add.  Think what Chris Johnson would be like if he had Carlos' plate approach (I HATE how jumpy CJ is at the plate...check swinging at damn near every pitch).  Then again, I would have him around just so I can see him make Altuve jump to high five him after wins... 
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MusicMan on May 22, 2012, 09:01:49 am
Having a professional hitter (that can play multiple positions)

Tap the brakes, there.  Let's not look at Carlos like he's some utility player.  He can play 1b.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: sporadic on May 22, 2012, 09:20:50 am
Tap the brakes, there.  Let's not look at Carlos like he's some utility player.  He can play 1b.

I should have been more specific, I was thinking DH that could play 1b every now and again to give your regular a break and LF if needed (injury). 
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MusicMan on May 22, 2012, 09:34:55 am
I should have been more specific, I was thinking DH that could play 1b every now and again to give your regular a break and LF if needed (injury). 

It'll be a cold day in hell before I recognize DH as a position.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: JimR on May 22, 2012, 09:38:37 am
Yeah, it registered a ping or two on the meter, I guess I've just read enough "Carlos Lee is ______ (fat, a bad fielder, past his prime, sucks, whatever), aren't the Astros stupid to be paying him so much money" comments elsewhere on the web, from people who don't know anything about the Astros except that Lee is on the team and Oswalt used to be, that it gets a bit old reading joke after joke at his expense here. Is he close to the hitter he used to be? No, but he's doing pretty well, and he's even played a fine 1B to my eyes. It's not really his fault that Drayton and Purpura threw a silly amount of money at him. He is what he is at this point and he seems to be a decent guy, so I don't see the point in dogging him on the internet.


i agree 1000%
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Fredia on May 22, 2012, 10:17:13 am
amen brother let me lead the second verse
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Gizzmonic on May 22, 2012, 10:29:01 am
It'll be a cold day in hell before I recognize DH as a position.

"DH is a position like not collecting stamps is a hobby"
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Noe on May 22, 2012, 12:27:20 pm
Next year, some pretty decent candidates for DH will make their appearance. Wallace for one. Hopefully the Astros avoid having to go out and overpay for a veteran hitter. Seems like a waste, seeing as how maybe Singleton is the 1b of the future and Wallace can handle the position every once and a while. A right handed DH/1b guy would go well in that mix... like, ahum... a Carlos Lee at a cheaper rate, maybe?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Mr. Happy on May 22, 2012, 02:06:15 pm
Tap the brakes, there.  Let's not look at Carlos like he's some utility player.  He can play 1b.

I wouldn't mind having him back to DH, play 1B from time to time and LF in an emergency at the right price.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MusicMan on May 22, 2012, 02:12:55 pm
I wouldn't mind having him back to DH, play 1B from time to time and LF in an emergency at the right price.

I have no problem with this for a couple million.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: JackAstro on May 22, 2012, 03:52:59 pm
I wouldn't mind having him back to DH, play 1B from time to time and LF in an emergency at the right price.

Who's the everyday 1B in this scenario?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: EasTexAstro on May 22, 2012, 04:09:32 pm
Who's the everyday 1B in this scenario?

The 90's version of Bagwell.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: NeilT on May 22, 2012, 04:11:44 pm
The 90's version of Bagwell.

That'll work.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Bench on May 22, 2012, 04:11:50 pm
The 90's version of Bagwell.

That's third base. 
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Limey on May 22, 2012, 04:13:10 pm
That's third base. 

...with someone else's wife.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Mr. Happy on May 22, 2012, 11:33:10 pm
...with someone else's wife.

Doing shots.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MRaup on May 23, 2012, 12:15:47 am
It'll be a cold day in hell before I recognize DH as a position.

Or recognize Mizzoura!
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: S.P. Rodriguez on May 23, 2012, 07:50:40 am
Next year, some pretty decent candidates for DH will make their appearance. Wallace for one. Hopefully the Astros avoid having to go out and overpay for a veteran hitter. Seems like a waste, seeing as how maybe Singleton is the 1b of the future and Wallace can handle the position every once and a while. A right handed DH/1b guy would go well in that mix... like, ahum... a Carlos Lee at a cheaper rate, maybe?

I can see Mills using Buck and Maxwell as his DH/Bench OF platoon.  My dislike of Lee faded when he moved to 1B.  He's much better 1B than LF, in my opinion. 
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MusicMan on May 23, 2012, 08:36:23 am
Or recognize Mizzoura!

THANK YOU.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MusicMan on May 23, 2012, 08:36:48 am
That's third base. 

I don't know, he's on third, and I don't give a darn!
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: ValpoCory on May 23, 2012, 10:05:01 am
Docs think he tore his ACL (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/cardinal-beat/berkman-weighs-future-while-awaiting-mri/article_9e04fea2-a2c2-11e1-ba20-001a4bcf6878.html#.T7l43GyTsHk.twitter).


Not to hijack this Carlos Lee love-fest, but I read the Jon Heyman Berkman article (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/19112554/if-this-is-it-for-berkman-it-ends-an-underappreciated-career) yesterday.   Bad mistake I know.   The title of the article, "If this is it for Berkman, it ends an underappreciated career", sounded a little promising that it might contain something positive about the Astros, but it soon became clear the article's purpose was to take every chance to criticize the Astros.

Quote
Berkman's .955 career OPS is better than ... Jeff Bagwell (.948), his former Astros teammate who many have suggested should be a Hall of Famer.
Heyman commonly interjects his opinion into his articles, so him not including his own endorsement leaves the reader to infer Heyman does not feel Bagwell belongs in the Hall.  But I let that slide for a minute as just an opportunity lost for Heyman.

Quote
Berkman was open book to the fans, and he was almost always dead-on in his opinions. (But I disagreed this spring when he used the word "extortion'' to describe how commissioner Bud Selig got new Astros owner Jim Crane to move next year to the American League.) He was that rare player who was both opinionated and usually correct.
So Berkman is always right unless he is trying to say something supportive about Houston.   Got it.  

Quote
Fittingly, perhaps Berkman's greatest accomplishment just might have been one that is rarely mentioned: anchoring a rather pedestrian 2005 Astros lineup that miraculously managed to make it to the World Series (with the help of pitching stars Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte and Roy Oswalt, of course). The rest of the '05 Astros lineup was composed mainly of light hitters and players whose flame burned out quickly; for those who don't recall that starting eight, the others were Morgan Ensberg, Jason Lane, Willy Taveras, Adam Everett, Brad Ausmus, Chris Burke and 39-year-old Craig Biggio.

"That was the worst everyday lineup to play in a World Series,'' one star player once told me. And it isn't hard to agree.

For Berkman to get that team into the World Series, well, that may be the single most underappreciated achievement in a career that was marked by underappreciation.

"Hey Astros fans ... you know that World Series you remember so fondly?  Well, you got lucky.  That team sucked.  That was a miracle fluke.  And no I will not give you the courtesy of a reach around."
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Noe on May 23, 2012, 10:20:29 am
So Berkman is always right unless he is trying to say something supportive about Houston.

Berkman was not wrong about extortion either Mr. Heyman. But he was wrong to say it out loud because there is no use in making trouble for an organization that is trying to move on. But again, he was right.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MRaup on May 23, 2012, 10:23:18 am
NO team has EVER made it to the World Series on pitching a defense, I can tell you that much!

I SAID NO TEAM!
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Andyzipp on May 23, 2012, 10:23:55 am
NO team has EVER made it to the World Series on pitching a defense, I can tell you that much!

I SAID NO TEAM!

How does one pitch a defense?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: subnuclear on May 23, 2012, 10:29:32 am
I'm not sure he is so wrong about that line-up. Ensberg had a great year that year, but I'm not particularly sentimental about an outfield of Lane, Taveras and Burke.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: EasTexAstro on May 23, 2012, 10:30:15 am
How does one pitch a defense?

Pine tar
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MusicMan on May 23, 2012, 10:44:04 am
NO team has EVER made it to the World Series on pitching a defense, I can tell you that much!

I SAID NO TEAM!

Please tell me I'm right to say this in Dennis Hopper's voice.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MRaup on May 23, 2012, 10:50:43 am
Please tell me I'm right to say this in Dennis Hopper's voice.

Quite rightly, sir.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Bench on May 23, 2012, 11:02:39 am
Waterworld?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MusicMan on May 23, 2012, 11:05:23 am
Waterworld?

You besmirch the sainted name of "Hoosiers".
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Fredia on May 23, 2012, 12:13:36 pm
with power point presentation and a pointer..
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: geezerdonk on May 23, 2012, 12:15:05 pm
How does one pitch a defense?

SDI doesn't cost very much and it is very effective.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Jacksonian on May 23, 2012, 12:24:36 pm
How does one pitch a defense?

Same way as a tent only more picket like.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: pots on May 23, 2012, 12:32:26 pm
Not to hijack this Carlos Lee love-fest, but I read the Jon Heyman Berkman article (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/19112554/if-this-is-it-for-berkman-it-ends-an-underappreciated-career) yesterday.   Bad mistake I know.   The title of the article, "If this is it for Berkman, it ends an underappreciated career", sounded a little promising that it might contain something positive about the Astros, but it soon became clear the article's purpose was to take every chance to criticize the Astros.
Heyman commonly interjects his opinion into his articles, so him not including his own endorsement leaves the reader to infer Heyman does not feel Bagwell belongs in the Hall.  But I let that slide for a minute as just an opportunity lost for Heyman.
So Berkman is always right unless he is trying to say something supportive about Houston.   Got it.  

"Hey Astros fans ... you know that World Series you remember so fondly?  Well, you got lucky.  That team sucked.  That was a miracle fluke.  And no I will not give you the courtesy of a reach around."

3 Aces and Qualls-Wheeler-Lidge to close the game. 
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MusicMan on May 23, 2012, 12:40:22 pm
Not to hijack this Carlos Lee love-fest, but I read the Jon Heyman Berkman article (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/19112554/if-this-is-it-for-berkman-it-ends-an-underappreciated-career) yesterday.   

I stopped there, because you deserved whatever you got, and should not have inflicted it on the rest of us.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: astrosfan76 on May 23, 2012, 01:26:45 pm
I can see Mills using Buck and Maxwell as his DH/Bench OF platoon.  My dislike of Lee faded when he moved to 1B.  He's much better 1B than LF, in my opinion. 

I'd be surprised if Fernando Martinez wasn't part of that discussion.
Title: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: geezerdonk on May 23, 2012, 01:47:54 pm
I would like to see Paredes plugged into right field for an extended period to see what he can do. It is a no risk move since there is no production of significance from that position.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: jbm on May 23, 2012, 03:10:11 pm
I'd be surprised if Fernando Martinez wasn't part of that discussion.
Me too, I would expect them to bring him up at some point this year to see how his bat plays, thereby giving them a better feel on whether he is a legit option. 

Regarding Paredes, Luhnow on his chat the other night indicated that they still want to keep him at second, and that he needs to show some more discipline at the plate. 
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Gizzmonic on May 23, 2012, 03:13:46 pm
I would like to see Paredes plugged into right field for an extended period to see what he can do. It is a no risk move since there is no production of significance from that position.

100% agree with this. Tired of looking at Bogusevic and Buck is more of a pinch-hitter type IMHO.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: JackAstro on May 23, 2012, 03:17:32 pm
Quote
Fittingly, perhaps Berkman's greatest accomplishment just might have been one that is rarely mentioned: anchoring a rather pedestrian 2005 Astros lineup that miraculously managed to make it to the World Series (with the help of pitching stars Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte and Roy Oswalt, of course). The rest of the '05 Astros lineup was composed mainly of light hitters and players whose flame burned out quickly; for those who don't recall that starting eight, the others were Morgan Ensberg, Jason Lane, Willy Taveras, Adam Everett, Brad Ausmus, Chris Burke and 39-year-old Craig Biggio.

"That was the worst everyday lineup to play in a World Series,'' one star player once told me. And it isn't hard to agree.

For Berkman to get that team into the World Series, well, that may be the single most underappreciated achievement in a career that was marked by underappreciation.

GAH! This is so fucking stupid it actually gives me a headache. The 2005 Astros scored 0.51 more runs per game than they allowed. When a team does that, winning a lot isn't a miracle, it's the expected outcome.

When you have the best pitching staff in the league, and lead the NL in defensive efficiency, having an adequate lineup at the plate (11th in the NL) is good enough. The White Sox finished 9th in the AL in runs scored, which means they had exactly the same number of teams ranked behind them in their league as the Astros did. Holy shit! It's a fucking double miracle! All the way across the sky!

Ensberg had the best offensive season on the 2005 squad – not Berkman. His "flame burning out quickly" is completely irrelevant in a discussion of Berkman carrying that particular team to a pennant. Which, of course, he demonstrably did not do. But hey, let's not allow any of these pesky details to get in the way of a preposterously stupid argument based on anecdotal support and wild straw-grasping.

In conclusion, "underappreciation" is not even a fucking word, you twat.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Mr. Happy on May 23, 2012, 04:04:16 pm
I would like to see Paredes plugged into right field for an extended period to see what he can do. It is a no risk move since there is no production of significance from that position.

I didn't know that Paredes any professional right field experience. Does he?
Title: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: geezerdonk on May 23, 2012, 04:33:07 pm
I didn't know that Paredes any professional right field experience. Does he?

Not that I know of. My wish is based on his athletic ability and the lack of production from those currently manning the position. How much worse could he be?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: EasTexAstro on May 23, 2012, 04:44:28 pm
Not that I know of. My wish is based on his athletic ability and the lack of production from those currently manning the position. How much worse could be be?

Pence defense?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Mr. Happy on May 23, 2012, 10:17:26 pm
Not that I know of. My wish is based on his athletic ability and the lack of production from those currently manning the position. How much worse could he be?

Dude. This isn't Strat-o-Matic.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Reuben on May 23, 2012, 11:00:01 pm
Dude. This isn't Strat-o-Matic.
Hey, I might be crazy too. I was wondering if they might try him in CF for a while- in AAA, that is, with an eye towards maybe late this year or 2013 helping the big club there if it works.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Mr. Happy on May 23, 2012, 11:27:20 pm
Hey, I might be crazy too. I was wondering if they might try him in CF for a while- in AAA, that is, with an eye towards maybe late this year or 2013 helping the big club there if it works.

You are crazy too. Assuming that he has never played the outfield, what makes you think that he can convert that easily? Playing the outfield at any level is very hard to do, especially if you have never played out there before. Making that conversion at the professional level would be exponentially harder. I'm not sayig that he couldn't do it. I am saying that it would take a lot of work. And patience.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Noe on May 23, 2012, 11:49:46 pm
You are crazy too. Assuming that he has never played the outfield, what makes you think that he can convert that easily? Playing the outfield at any level is very hard to do, especially if you have never played out there before. Making that conversion at the professional level would be exponentially harder. I'm not sayig that he couldn't do it. I am saying that it would take a lot of work. And patience.

"YEAH!" - Craig Biggio
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MRaup on May 24, 2012, 01:29:21 am
"YEAH!" - Craig Biggio

There's a fantastic example.
Title: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: geezerdonk on May 24, 2012, 08:53:21 am
Dude. This isn't Strat-o-Matic.

Don't tell me - tell Bogusevic.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Reuben on May 24, 2012, 09:06:01 am
You are crazy too. Assuming that he has never played the outfield, what makes you think that he can convert that easily? Playing the outfield at any level is very hard to do, especially if you have never played out there before. Making that conversion at the professional level would be exponentially harder. I'm not sayig that he couldn't do it. I am saying that it would take a lot of work. And patience.
Well, clearly there's a quandary of what do you do with Paredes, because I don't see any reason to move Altuve from 2B. I have no clue if he can play CF, but I know others have mused about the possibility (Dierker, in an infamous somewhat crazy moment last year, I think Brownie and JD also had idly wondered about it...), due to his speed and overall athleticism. SS is probably a stretch. So that leaves 3B, where the Astros seem to prefer power (CJ, Wallace) and CF, where the jury's still out on Schafer. Or a trade. I hope that doesn't happen because Altuve and Paredes are both a lot of fun to watch.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Noe on May 24, 2012, 09:15:40 am
Truth be told, if they had notions about switching where Paredes could play, they'd send him to the Instructional League first and hit him a ton of flyballs to shag. They'd work on fundamentals for a good long while and if he showed that he's a quick learner, it's not beyond reason that they'd then let him switch and try to play the position for a good long while in whatever league they could send him to play in. Maybe a winter league to start with and then AAA or something. A lot happens before the major league season would be the landing place for a switch for the kid, but those things are rarely seen by fans. It can also quickly dispel notions of a switch when you send a guy to Instructionals.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Gizzmonic on May 24, 2012, 09:16:14 am
Well, clearly there's a quandary of what do you do with Paredes, because I don't see any reason to move Altuve from 2B. I have no clue if he can play CF, but I know others have mused about the possibility (Dierker, in an infamous somewhat crazy moment last year, I think Brownie and JD also had idly wondered about it...), due to his speed and overall athleticism. SS is probably a stretch. So that leaves 3B, where the Astros seem to prefer power (CJ, Wallace) and CF, where the jury's still out on Schafer. Or a trade. I hope that doesn't happen because Altuve and Paredes are both a lot of fun to watch.

If Paredes is staying at 2B, does that mean the organization views him more as trade bait than a piece to help the big league club?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: juliogotay on May 24, 2012, 09:34:34 am
JD and Brownine were talking about Paredes last night and the good season he's having. According to Brown, Luhnow said Paredes will remain at second base and they want him to cut down on Ks. I don't know what that means about how they perceive his future but that was Luhnow's alleged comment.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: jbm on May 24, 2012, 09:47:10 am
Makes sense to me.  Luhnow believes his greatest value is as a middle infielder.  Let him develop that way, and if he becomes ready at this position, make that decision to use him at the major league level, trade him or have him learn something new.  Until then, let him develop at a position where he will maximize his value.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Mr. Happy on May 24, 2012, 08:29:55 pm
"YEAH!" - Craig Biggio

While that is a good example, it is a rare one and one that really didn't work so well as he really didn't play well out there.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Noe on May 24, 2012, 09:05:48 pm
While that is a good example, it is a rare one and one that really didn't work so well as he really didn't play well out there.

"YEAH!" - Robin Yount
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Mr. Happy on May 24, 2012, 09:09:46 pm
"YEAH!" - Robin Yount

I didn't say that no one could do it. I said that it was very rare that someone could do it. You've cited two HOFers (now and later). Show me an average ttype player who successfully changed to the outfield with no experience out there and I'll concede.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Reuben on May 24, 2012, 10:21:08 pm
I didn't say that no one could do it. I said that it was very rare that someone could do it. You've cited two HOFers (now and later). Show me an average ttype player who successfully changed to the outfield with no experience out there and I'll concede.
"YEAH!" - Mickey Mantle


...Stan Musial?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: sporadic on May 24, 2012, 10:36:09 pm
I didn't say that no one could do it. I said that it was very rare that someone could do it. You've cited two HOFers (now and later). Show me an average ttype player who successfully changed to the outfield with no experience out there and I'll concede.

Rick Ankiel.  I do agree with where you are coming from, though
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Mr. Happy on May 24, 2012, 11:10:14 pm
"YEAH!" - Mickey Mantle


...Stan Musial?

Yogi Berra too, but these guys are all in the Hall of Fame. Can Jimmy Paredes do it? That's the question. But we don't even know that the Astros have any plans to convert him into an outfielder.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Noe on May 24, 2012, 11:58:58 pm
"Never say never." - Sean Connery
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Noe on May 25, 2012, 12:00:18 am
"YEAH!" - Mickey Mantle


...Stan Musial?

"YEAH!" - Ryan Braun
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MusicMan on May 25, 2012, 09:44:49 am
"Never say never." - Sean Connery

Again?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: VirtualBob on May 25, 2012, 11:52:33 am


Regarding Paredes, ... he needs to show some more discipline at the plate.  
Yes.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: JackAstro on May 26, 2012, 01:17:00 am
I didn't say that no one could do it. I said that it was very rare that someone could do it. You've cited two HOFers (now and later). Show me an average ttype player who successfully changed to the outfield with no experience out there and I'll concede.

Off the top of my head, Bill Hall, Ryan Braun, Aubrey Huff, Pedro Feliz, Chone Figgins and Ben Zobrist.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Mr. Happy on May 26, 2012, 08:09:52 am
Off the top of my head, Bill Hall, Ryan Braun, Aubrey Huff, Pedro Feliz, Chone Figgins and Ben Zobrist.

Uncle!!!
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Reuben on May 26, 2012, 08:25:56 am
Off the top of my head, Bill Hall, Ryan Braun, Aubrey Huff, Pedro Feliz, Chone Figgins and Ben Zobrist.
Pedro Feliz played the OF?

Willie Harris also converted from 2B to OF. Jerry Hairston Jr. has played all over. And of course, the great Eric Bruntlett...
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Bench on May 26, 2012, 09:32:03 am
Ryan Braun

Did you see what he pulled the other day?  Apparently he doesn't like having the roof at Miller open during day games because of shadows, so in the game the other day he had two bad strikes and then petulantly bunted foul for no  reason to petulantly register his protest.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Noe on May 26, 2012, 10:22:02 am
Did you see what he pulled the other day?  Apparently he doesn't like having the roof at Miller open during day games because of shadows, so in the game the other day he had two bad strikes and then petulantly bunted foul for no  reason to petulantly register his protest.

Fight the power! Don't let the Man keep you down!
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Mr. Happy on May 26, 2012, 08:15:42 pm
Did you see what he pulled the other day?  Apparently he doesn't like having the roof at Miller open during day games because of shadows, so in the game the other day he had two bad strikes and then petulantly bunted foul for no  reason to petulantly register his protest.

The Peen strikes!!!
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Col. Sphinx Drummond on May 27, 2012, 05:35:39 pm
Did you see what he pulled the other day?  Apparently he doesn't like having the roof at Miller open during day games because of shadows, so in the game the other day he had two bad strikes and then petulantly bunted foul for no  reason to petulantly register his protest.

That was him having a petulant frenzy. He was petulant and he was having a frenzy.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MusicMan on May 29, 2012, 09:04:13 am
Did you see what he pulled the other day?  Apparently he doesn't like having the roof at Miller open during day games because of shadows, so in the game the other day he had two bad strikes and then petulantly bunted foul for no  reason to petulantly register his protest.

No fucking way.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: BizidyDizidy on May 29, 2012, 09:06:09 am
No fucking way.

I couldn't find anything about this online
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Reuben on May 29, 2012, 09:27:53 am
Pedro Feliz played the OF?

Willie Harris also converted from 2B to OF. Jerry Hairston Jr. has played all over. And of course, the great Eric Bruntlett...
Oh, and perhaps the best comp for Paredes, in terms of similar frame and athleticism coupled with erratic IF defense, is BJ Upton... that conversion to CF worked pretty well.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MusicMan on May 29, 2012, 09:39:56 am
I don't think infielders can be "converted".  They're born that way, and we should accept them for who they are.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: NeilT on May 29, 2012, 11:04:45 am
I don't think infielders can be "converted".  They're born that way, and we should accept them for who they are.

I thought that was pitchers and catchers?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Bench on May 29, 2012, 11:19:34 am
I couldn't find anything about this online

Oh god.  I just realized where I had seen it: Everybody Reads Raymond! (http://mlblogsraymond.mlblogs.com/)

Speaking of Attitude

In the Brewers win over San Francisco yesterday, Ryan Braun was upset about the roof being open at Miller Park.  At least that’s what I have to assume.  With his team leading comfortably in the sixth inning, Braun led off against Giants reliever Steve Edlefsen.  With a 1-2 count, Braun bunted foul to strikeout in an obvious display of petulance.

Now my personal disdain for bunting is difficult to hide at times, but it has nothing to do with my feelings on this specific matter.

Braun may not like the shadows at Miller Park.  I doubt many hitters — or fielders for that matter — do.  However, he owes more to his teammates, the game and THE PAYING FANS than to throw away an at bat like that.  Fans certainly didn’t pay to see him pout.

That’s low-rent on his part.  I’m surprised it wasn’t covered with more interest by the newspapers.


Feel free to discount accordingly. 
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Bench on May 29, 2012, 11:20:10 am
I thought that was pitchers and catchers?

Switch hitters really do exist naturally.  They're not just perverts.
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: EasTexAstro on May 29, 2012, 11:25:14 am
I thought that was pitchers and catchers?

Rick Ankiel?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: VirtualBob on May 29, 2012, 12:28:47 pm
Rick Ankiel?
Sarc Meter?
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: MusicMan on May 29, 2012, 01:27:03 pm
Switch hitters really do exist naturally.  They're not just perverts.

Mickey Mantle, Chipper Jones... signs point to "perverts".
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: EasTexAstro on May 29, 2012, 01:44:21 pm
Sarc Meter?

Just trying to play along with the game...
Title: Re: Swan Song for Big Puma?
Post by: Gizzmonic on May 30, 2012, 01:03:12 pm
Mickey Mantle, Chipper Jones... signs point to "perverts".

Lance Pervman?