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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 01:48:51 pm

Title: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 01:48:51 pm
Bring tomatoes.  Old ones.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 01:51:24 pm
According to Footer, it'll be streamed online (http://t.co/uoPeRWE1).
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: MusicMan on November 17, 2011, 01:52:24 pm
According to Footer, it'll be streamed online (http://t.co/uoPeRWE1).

I've got a stream for them.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Texifornia on November 17, 2011, 01:59:04 pm
The first question will probably be: "Is moving to the AL a great idea, or is it the greatest idea ever?"-Houston Chronicle
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 02:01:36 pm
I've got a stream for them.

SFN
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Houston on November 17, 2011, 02:01:52 pm
The first question will probably be: "Is moving to the AL a great idea, or is it the greatest idea ever?"-Houston Chronicle

Richard Justice must be on the verge of making a mess in his pants about now. Again.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Andyzipp on November 17, 2011, 02:03:46 pm
Richard Justice must be on the verge of making a mess in his pants about now. Again.

Insomuch as someone in the organization may start speaking to him again?  Have they fired the front office yet?
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: ValpoCory on November 17, 2011, 02:04:06 pm
The first question will probably be: "Is moving to the AL a great idea, or is it the greatest idea ever?"-Houston Chronicle

"Have you had any conversations with Nolan Ryan today?"

"How will the league change affect the ever-important Battle for the Silver Boot?"
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: jbm on November 17, 2011, 02:13:05 pm
"Have you had any conversations with Nolan Ryan today?"

"How will the league change affect the ever-important Battle for the Silver Boot?"

Brings up a good point:  who the fuck will be our contrived interleague "rival."
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: MusicMan on November 17, 2011, 02:13:47 pm
Brings up a good point:  who the fuck will be our contrived interleague "rival."

Those don't exist any more, I don't think.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Houston on November 17, 2011, 02:15:51 pm
Brings up a good point:  who the fuck will be our contrived interleague "rival."

The DH is our new rival.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: ValpoCory on November 17, 2011, 02:22:04 pm
Brings up a good point:  who the fuck will be our contrived interleague "rival."

If Stark it right, the Astros will play each of the NL West teams the same number of games each year.  If Stark is wrong, the Diamondbacks.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Texifornia on November 17, 2011, 02:23:56 pm
I hope somebody asks if the Astros will have to play home games against the White Sox in Milwaukee....in the interest of fairness.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: hostros7 on November 17, 2011, 02:25:41 pm
This article makes me angry.  What an idiot.  

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Houston-Astros-switching-leagues-why-it-is-big-deal-111611 (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Houston-Astros-switching-leagues-why-it-is-big-deal-111611)


Also, it's pretty amazing that everyone seems to understand that the Astros fans are absolutely getting steamrolled other than the local media and many of their counterparts in other cities.  For once, it's safe scan the comments on these articles, even if it will increase your blood pressure.  The line to the AL should have formed behind MIL, AZ, CO, etc.  
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: ValpoCory on November 17, 2011, 02:38:22 pm
I somehow ended up at a Dickwheel article, but saw this gem.
Quote
Fans expecting a dramatic turnaround are going to be disappointed. Crane said he would build from the ground up.

“If you look at all the teams that have been successful, like the Rangers, they had a very good minor league system, and then they made a move,” he said.

So on Day Fucking One, Crane's comment is ...


"Maybe one day Houston can be like Dallas."


FYJ

I don't care if the point he is trying to make is valid.  You just don't say that.   Imagine Dale Sveum saying today, "I hope we can be like the Cardinals".
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: ferret on November 17, 2011, 02:38:34 pm
"Mr. ShitforBrains, sorry... start again, Mr Douche Nozzle, sorry sorry sorry, Mr Crane, will the Astros be allowed to open and close the roof when they choose, or is there a permission slip you'll need to fill out ? and also, Mr. HumanWasteRecepti... sorry, habit, Mr Crane, will the Astros be allowed to schedule all of their home games in their home city?  I'll hang up and mumble curses at you, sorry, listen."
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Fredia on November 17, 2011, 02:40:09 pm
bud anyone who has that name nick name or plans to name anhy of their children that name in perpetuity please note the karma associated with the name
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: ValpoCory on November 17, 2011, 02:46:42 pm
Crane just lost $5 Million.

Quote
As part of the Astros' agreement to switch leagues, the sale price was cut from $680 million to $615 million, a person at Thursday's meeting told The Associated Press. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because details weren't announced,

Major League Baseball will make up part of the $65 million difference, paying McLane $35 million over three years, the person said.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7246443/houston-astros-sale-approved-mlb
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: MikeyBoy on November 17, 2011, 02:47:39 pm
"Mr. ShitforBrains, sorry... start again, Mr Douche Nozzle, sorry sorry sorry, Mr Crane, will the Astros be allowed to open and close the roof when they choose, or is there a permission slip you'll need to fill out ? and also, Mr. HumanWasteRecepti... sorry, habit, Mr Crane, will the Astros be allowed to schedule all of their home games in their home city?  I'll hang up and mumble curses at you, sorry, listen."

He should be appropriately named McCrane, until he proves otherwise.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 02:47:57 pm
Crane just lost $5 Million.

I hope he loses his fucking shirt.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: roadrunner on November 17, 2011, 03:07:39 pm
If Stark it right, the Astros will play each of the NL West teams the same number of games each year. 

Somehow this is getting worse.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Fredia on November 17, 2011, 03:11:52 pm
no doze lots of red bull and starbucks..
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 03:26:26 pm
Somehow this is getting worse.

If I have this right, the Astros play one road series with each member of the NL West currently and, under the plan as laid out by Stark (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/rumblings111110/exploring-market-free-agents-albert-pujols-prince-fielder), this won't change (although it is not clear if that's 3 home and road, or 3 total).  If that's true, then instead of exchanging at least some of the west coast roadies, 9 road games with each of the west coast teams - 27 in total - have been added to the current total.

That's 1 in 4 games on the west coast, folks.  Guaranteed.  Every year.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: ferret on November 17, 2011, 03:32:39 pm
He should be appropriately named McCrane, until he proves otherwise.

"Konnichiwa, Misser McCrane"
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 03:34:18 pm
It's on. Glossing over the first question by saying they hope to look forward and build a winning team that will bring the fans in. He's already comparing to 'Dallas' again as well.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 03:35:22 pm
"Pam Gardner's going to stay with us. It was fun being with her last night."
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: OregonStrosFan on November 17, 2011, 03:35:55 pm
Hey, on the bright side of all this, Crane has thrown his support behind Pam Gardner and stated that she will be back with the club...

FUCK. MY. LIFE.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 03:36:55 pm
"You won't have my cell number unless you already have it. And I'll probably change it." He says they'll be accessible, but that Drayton probably enjoyed that more than he does.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 03:37:19 pm
It's on. Glossing over the first question by saying they hope to look forward and build a winning team that will bring the fans in. He's already comparing to 'Dallas' again as well.

If this is his theme, then the guy has no clue about the relationship of Houston to Dallas, let alone the Astros to the Rangers.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 03:39:12 pm
If this is his theme, then the guy has no clue about the relationship of Houston to Dallas, let alone the Astros to the Rangers.

My guess is he lives in a strata that is above what we commoners feel.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: jwhudson on November 17, 2011, 03:39:42 pm
Congradulations Mr. Crane and fuck you very much.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 03:39:52 pm
It's over. Less than ten minutes.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 03:41:21 pm
My guess is he lives in a strata that is above what we commoners feel up his own arse.

FIFY
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: roadrunner on November 17, 2011, 03:41:47 pm
What the fuck?  I show up 8 minutes late and it's over.  Was there anything worthwhile?
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 03:41:51 pm
It's over. Less than ten minutes.

Did he take questions, or was it just prepared remarks?
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: subnuclear on November 17, 2011, 03:42:59 pm
What the fuck?  I show up 8 minutes late and it's over.  Was there anything worthwhile?

They are bringing Pam Gardner back and you can't call him on his cell phone. Pretty exciting.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 03:43:36 pm
Did he take questions, or was it just prepared remarks?

He took questions. There really wasn't much, and you couldn't hear the questions anyway. The first one was about 'what do you say to the fans who are upset about moving to the AL' and the rest were nothing much.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: citizenmilton on November 17, 2011, 03:43:51 pm
He was given the direct question, what to say to fans who have a problem with the move to the AL.

He's had months to prepare for that question.

What a pathetic answer: A mumble, and a cliche of not-look-back gotta-look-forward empty optimism.

This was Rick Perry Brainy-Freeze (TM) with extra shit sprinkles on top.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 03:44:56 pm
He said they would build from the ground up, look at the team and probably make moves after Thanksgiving, didn't expect to be big players in the FA market this year. Yadda yadda yadda.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 03:46:18 pm
Footer says they'll be looking at things to do for the fans, like lower prices.

Ok. Thanks for the thicky gruel, guv.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: roadrunner on November 17, 2011, 03:47:14 pm
If I have this right, the Astros play one road series with each member of the NL West currently and, under the plan as laid out by Stark (http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/rumblings111110/exploring-market-free-agents-albert-pujols-prince-fielder), this won't change (although it is not clear if that's 3 home and road, or 3 total).  If that's true, then instead of exchanging at least some of the west coast roadies, 9 road games with each of the west coast teams - 27 in total - have been added to the current total.

That's 1 in 4 games on the west coast, folks.  Guaranteed.  Every year.

Wow.  Selig just doesn't know when to stop.  He is the fucking worst.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 03:47:37 pm
Footer's getting more out of him than the PC showed. Everything's on the table for potential change, logo, unis, etc.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 03:47:57 pm
Footer says they'll be looking at things to do for the fans, like lower prices.

No shit.  Worst team in baseball playing crappy opposition that you've never heard of who are fielding players that you don't care about.

For 4 hours.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 03:48:58 pm
Footer's getting more out of him than the PC showed. Everything's on the table for potential change, logo, unis, etc.

I am not at all surprised, but where are you seeing this?
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 03:49:28 pm
I am not at all surprised, but where are you seeing this?

Her tweets. And they're spectacular.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 03:51:16 pm
"We'll get payroll lined up with the revenue coming in."

Welcome to European austerity folks.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 03:53:07 pm
"It was made very clear to us anyone who owned the team would be moving to the AL."

Anyone except Drayton FuCklane, he did not add.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: ferret on November 17, 2011, 03:55:12 pm
"Pam Gardner's going to stay with us. It was fun being with her last night."

Fuck. Me.  Some half price Aramark thicky gruel is supposed to make up for this?
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 03:57:05 pm
Fuck. Me.  Some half price Aramark thicky gruel is supposed to make up for this?

I'm just glad they won't be taking down the Fowl Poles. Maybe they'll have Sheriff Blaylock's Chowder in the concession stands more often now too.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Waldo on November 17, 2011, 03:57:17 pm
Footer's getting more out of him than the PC showed. Everything's on the table for potential change, logo, unis, etc.

Except Pam Gardner, apparently.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 03:58:08 pm
Except Pam Gardner, apparently.

She already got hers out of him.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: citizenmilton on November 17, 2011, 04:02:03 pm
Jim Crane @ funeral of #Astros standing in front of a pair of tombstones. RIP Astros 1962-2012 http://twitpic.com/7fig6h (http://twitpic.com/7fig6h)
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: roadrunner on November 17, 2011, 04:05:05 pm
The worst thing that ever happened is Jim Crane walking away from the deal in 2008.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: ferret on November 17, 2011, 04:05:38 pm
"It was made very clear to us anyone who owned the team would be moving to the AL."

Anyone except Drayton FuCklane, he did not add.

Then why is there now a $70 million discount on the original offer?  
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 04:05:49 pm
Jim Crane @ funeral of #Astros standing in front of a pair of tombstones. RIP Astros 1962-2012 http://twitpic.com/7fig6h (http://twitpic.com/7fig6h)

Nice.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 04:06:35 pm
Then why is there now a $70 million discount on the original offer?  

You're trying to find accountability in a sea of lies. It isn't going to happen.

Aren't you enjoying your gruel? There's more, you know.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: ferret on November 17, 2011, 04:07:48 pm
You're trying to find accountability in a sea of lies. It isn't going to happen.

Aren't you enjoying your gruel? There's more, you know.

Oh it's num num.  When I'm done, could you tell me a story about the free agents?
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 04:08:55 pm
I worked for one restaurant manager who used to take the unsold meat at the end of the night, grind it up and put barbecue sauce all over it to sell the next day...and the next...and the next. He wouldn't let us throw it out when it got gamey, he'd just add more sauce to it and more of the latest leftovers. He couldn't understand why people would get pissed off because he was giving them so much of it for such a low price.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: ValpoCory on November 17, 2011, 04:17:01 pm
"We'll get payroll lined up with the revenue coming in."

Welcome to European austerity folks.

The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 04:18:56 pm
For those who can stomach it, here's Selig on the subject (http://houston.astros.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19998183&partnerId=aw-5664797199767810464-1060).

Warning:  It's just not safe.  For anything.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 04:20:23 pm
Quotes from Selig:

"The greatest thing this sport has going for it is its history and tradition."

"Drayton certainly left a much better franchise than he began with."
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 04:21:23 pm
Quote from Selig:

"The greatest thing this sport has going for it is its history and tradition of cocksucking greedheads who try to kill the game every chance they get."

FIFY
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Don on November 17, 2011, 04:22:45 pm
The name on Bud's podium is fitting.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Limey on November 17, 2011, 04:24:01 pm
The video clips of Selig and then Crane are pathetic beyond words.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Jacksonian on November 17, 2011, 04:24:09 pm
Quotes from Selig:

"The greatest thing this sport has going for it is its history and tradition."


Adapted: "It tells me that goosestepping morons like yourself should try reading history books instead of burning them!"
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Navin R Johnson on November 17, 2011, 04:24:13 pm
Then why is there now a $70 million discount on the original offer? 

Because the original offer was for a NL team.  Baseball can't make a team move, but they can bribe them.

Crane used the moving to the AL stipulation to his offer, which wasn't part of the original offer he made to Drayton, to get 70 million bucks out of the owners.

Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: jbm on November 17, 2011, 04:29:23 pm
The title on Astros.com said something about Selig on the Astros move.  He didn't say shit about that, and the motherfucker didn't keel over while saying what he did say.  Overall, not worth watching. 
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ebby Calvin on November 17, 2011, 04:29:58 pm
Quotes from Selig:

"Drayton certainly left a much better franchise than he began with."

Which sums up FYB's opinion of us.  Hey-last place! Not bad!
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: ferret on November 17, 2011, 04:43:11 pm
Because the original offer was for a NL team.  Baseball can't make a team move, but they can bribe them.

Crane used the moving to the AL stipulation to his offer, which wasn't part of the original offer he made to Drayton, to get 70 million bucks out of the owners.



I was going from this quote which was quickly scrubbed from the story on astros.com

"Because McLane accepted the pre-sale stipulation of the Astros move to the AL, he will receive $35 million from MLB. "

McLane seems to have been aware of the conditions on the sale.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Fredia on November 17, 2011, 04:44:29 pm
i fell like asking for more please
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Reuben on November 17, 2011, 06:09:53 pm
I was going from this quote which was quickly scrubbed from the story on astros.com

"Because McLane accepted the pre-sale stipulation of the Astros move to the AL, he will receive $35 million from MLB. "

McLane seems to have been aware of the conditions on the sale.
That same story now has the similar "Selig was careful to say that McLane, not Crane, was the person who accepted the pre-sale stipulation that the Astros move to the AL."
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: austro on November 17, 2011, 07:27:54 pm
That same story now has the similar "Selig was careful to say that McLane, not Crane, was the person who accepted the pre-sale stipulation that the Astros move to the AL."

You'd think that they could at least get their story straight before the presser.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 07:38:43 pm
You'd think that they could at least get their story straight before the presser.

That might fool you into thinking they care.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: JimR on November 17, 2011, 07:49:25 pm
I was going from this quote which was quickly scrubbed from the story on astros.com

"Because McLane accepted the pre-sale stipulation of the Astros move to the AL, he will receive $35 million from MLB. "

McLane seems to have been aware of the conditions on the sale.

welcome back, you Magnificent Bastard.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Mr. Happy on November 17, 2011, 07:50:40 pm
welcome back, you Magnificent Bastard.

+1
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 07:53:37 pm
welcome back, you Magnificent Bastard.

All it took was a sale and a league change.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: JimR on November 17, 2011, 07:57:13 pm
All it took was a sale and a league change.

if that's what brought him back, it was worth it.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: austro on November 17, 2011, 08:26:41 pm
All it took was a sale and a league change.

Which makes one wonder what Alkie's price is.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: MusicMan on November 17, 2011, 08:34:45 pm
Which makes one wonder what Alkie's price is.

Bottle of Boone's Farm.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: austro on November 17, 2011, 08:37:57 pm
Bottle of Boone's Farm.

I figured he'd be here just to laugh at the collective meltdown, but noooooo.....
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: strosrays on November 17, 2011, 09:22:09 pm
Footer's getting more out of him than the PC showed. Everything's on the table for potential change, logo, unis, etc.

Ditch Brownie and JD.  Your new TV announcers are Dolmond and Rayan, or Raymond and Dolan, whichever.
Title: Re: Crane Presser at 3:30pm CST from MMPUS
Post by: Ron Brand on November 17, 2011, 09:24:09 pm
Ditch Brownie and JD.  Your new TV announcers are Dolmond and Rayan, or Raymond and Dolan, whichever.

Chip and Monk.