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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: Noe on May 14, 2010, 03:25:22 pm
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Saying all the right things about wanting to stay of course, but he really is saying he 1) expects them to explore a trade and 2) he's pitching well enough to draw a lot of interest and 3) he doesn't want to go just anywhere, he'll have to approve the trade.
I think this will somehow escalate at the deadline nears, but now I have no doubt a trade is really a good possibility. So here is the question: Do you think it would be wise for the Astros to do it?
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Saying all the right things about wanting to stay of course, but he really is saying he 1) expects them to explore a trade and 2) he's pitching well enough to draw a lot of interest and 3) he doesn't want to go just anywhere, he'll have to approve the trade.
I think this will somehow escalate at the deadline nears, but now I have no doubt a trade is really a good possibility. So here is the question: Do you think it would be wise for the Astros to do it?
Depends on the return. Same goes for dealing Berkman.
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Depends on the return. Same goes for dealing Berkman.
I agree and don't trade one if you have no interest in trading the other.
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I agree and don't trade one if you have no interest in trading the other.
I don't agree with that. Again, depends on the return.
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So what's the ideal return? Pitcher(s) or position player(s)?
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So what's the ideal return? Pitcher(s) or position player(s)?
Yes.
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First question:
He routinely says he's not thinking about it until these two years are up and has implied that he's done then. What probability do you put on him actually retiring after 2011?
Second question:
Do you think in 2012 he's likely to still be a productive starter, and for how many seasons after that?
Third question:
Could the Astros return to being WS competitive in 2012 without trading him?
To me, if he's likly to keep playing in 2012 at a high level and the Astros will be back in contention, I would want to keep him in the mud and blood. Why trade him away for a bunch of kids that will need him (or someone of his caliber) to compete in a few years anyway.
If, however, he's not going to be around and productive in 2012 or the Astros wont have realistic expectations of WS contention that year, then you need to pull the trigger now (or whenever you think his stock value will peak between now and the trading deadline). Having him next year for a rebuild helps no one, assuming the butt in seats value is less than the cost of developing the talent you'll need in 2012 to really put butts in seats. Of course, if Drayton doesnt think he'll be the owner in 2012, he has no reason to make such an investment...
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So what's the ideal return? Pitcher(s) or position player(s)?
If Oswalt's pitching like an ace I'd expect a high quality 3 for 1.
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The Rangers have some interesting prospects considering their financial woes though, are they even possible as a trade partner?
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First question:
He routinely says he's not thinking about it until these two years are up and has implied that he's done then. What probability do you put on him actually retiring after 2011?
63%
Second question:
Do you think in 2012 he's likely to still be a productive starter, and for how many seasons after that?
Yes. 2.
Third question:
Could the Astros return to being WS competitive in 2012 without trading him?
Possibly.
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The Rangers have some interesting prospects considering their financial woes though, are they even possible as a trade partner?
That's a question best held until July.
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That's a question best held until July.
Bingo! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gekaEzqj5g)
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Roy has basically said he'd like to be a Co-ard or a Bravos pitcher. He is now saying he wants to go somewhere where he has a legitimate chance to win a ring, so his veto powers are about calling the shots in a trade scenario. Just kind of putting myself away from being a fan of the Houston Astros for a minute, a Co-ard starting staff of Carpenter, Wainwright, Penny and Oswalt would be almost too much to dream about. It would rival anything the Yankees or Phillies have going for them.
Just saying.
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I can't imagine the package they'd have to put together that would begin to tamp down the bile that floods my throat when I think of Oswalt as a Cardinal.
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I can't imagine the package they'd have to put together that would begin to tamp down the bile that floods my throat when I think of Oswalt as a Cardinal.
Oswalt to STL, [insert random Jake slug in this slot] to PIT, Lastings Milledge to HOU. No WAY you could pass that up!!!
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Can I get pre-Botox Nicole Kidman as a throw-in?
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Roy has basically said he'd like to be a Co-ard or a Bravos pitcher.
Two of the three uniforms I simply could not STAND to see him in. The other being the FTCubs.
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Iffin' they intend to trade him, it's to where he's gonna wanna go. Boston is another destination.
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Iffin' they intend to trade him, it's to where he's gonna wanna go. Boston is another destination.
Better there than to the Turdinals, the Bravos, or the FTCubs, imho.
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Iffin' they intend to trade him, it's to where he's gonna wanna go. Boston is another destination.
All the Boston fans I know do nothing but bitch about how bad their team is doing. I'm not sure what they have to give the Astros though.
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i do not give a shit any more. i have been tired of his bs for quite some time. just get good players in return.
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It would help a lot if he was at least outside of the division. I hate the Braves, but less than the 3rds or the FTC, to be sure.
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I wouldn't mind getting Beckham from the Pale Sox. I know he's sucked this year, but he can play (allegedly) 3rd or 2nd. Roy would be with manlove peavy, and it's not like the Sox have been shy to make trades even with slim shots at making the playoffs. It's not a rental with Roy O at least.
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Not that it really matters this year, but it's kind of disheartening to hear your big 3 stars talk about being traded to a contender or retiring in the middle of fucking May.
Any logical person that follows the Astros knows that they have no chance at the playoffs this year, but that doesn't mean the players have to give up on the season 6 weeks into it.
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Not that it really matters this year, but it's kind of disheartening to hear your big 3 stars talk about being traded to a contender or retiring in the middle of fucking May.
Any logical person that follows the Astros knows that they have no chance at the playoffs this year, but that doesn't mean the players have to give up on the season 6 weeks into it.
Agreed. Just go do your job and let management do its and things will take care of themselves.
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do you think if oswalt went to another team it would improve it to the point of winning in a playoff situeuaiton
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Agreed. Just go do your job and let management do its and things will take care of themselves.
He's being asked questions and he's answering them semi-honestly. Good enough for me.
Besides, isn't Oswalt already a Met?
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I don't agree with that. Again, depends on the return.
My point is that if you trade one, you're throwing in the towel for next season, as well. You might as well call it rebuilding and trade both. I'm not advocating taking a junk offer, but you have to at least be willing to trade both in that situation.
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My point is that if you trade one, you're throwing in the towel for next season, as well. You might as well call it rebuilding and trade both. I'm not advocating taking a junk offer, but you have to at least be willing to trade both in that situation.
If you dont trade them, is next year really the target comeback year?
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Oswalt to STL, [insert random Jake slug in this slot] to PIT, Lastings Milledge to HOU. No WAY you could pass that up!!!
Perhaps Milledge is Oswalt's doppelganger.
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I'm not a big fan of this idea, trading Oswalt, but if they are going to do it, someone needs to tie Carlos Lee to the deal. That's my two cents.
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I'm not a big fan of this idea, trading Oswalt, but if they are going to do it, someone needs to tie Carlos Lee to the deal. That's my two cents.
That'd be tough to do, considering Oswalt has a fairly big contract as well, and Lee's deal was heavily back-loaded. At that point it'd be more about eating salary- a lot of salary- to buy decent prospects, rather than getting a good package for Oswalt and not paying any salary.
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If you dont trade them, is next year really the target comeback year?
Not really, but they're not going to say otherwise if they go with the status quo. Trading even one of the two shows a shift in focus from "now, while building for the future" to just "building for the future."
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Not really, but they're not going to say otherwise if they go with the status quo. Trading even one of the two shows a shift in focus from "now, while building for the future" to just "building for the future."
But it's clear there is no "now", and anybody who actually believes that there is will be taken advantage of in a trade.
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situeuaiton
Now *that* is an impressive vowel movement.
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But it's clear there is no "now", and anybody who actually believes that there is will be taken advantage of in a trade.
True, there is no "now," but Wade's orders since day 1 have been to field a contender now while building for the future. Even going into this season, that has been the direction taken/advertised. Trading a star (with no obvious replacement) tells everyone that the team is giving up on that idea. We can only hope we could find a team to take advantage of.
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True, there is no "now," but Wade's orders since day 1 have been to field a contender now while building for the future. Even going into this season, that has been the direction taken/advertised. Trading a star (with no obvious replacement) tells everyone that the team is giving up on that idea. We can only hope we could find a team to take advantage of.
Methinks the fans are on to the Astros not being competitive enough to make the playoffs this year (despite the Foghorn pleas to the contrary). If there were not, the turnstiles would be turning and McLane would be saying "Oswalt is going nowhere as long as I'm the owner". Or something like that. I like that the Astros *ARE* building for the future with their High A and AA players, but they're going to need more. This may be an opportunity more than a bad idea.
It all depends on your perspective I suppose, but this may be a win-win if you're a fan of Oswalt. He gets to go where he wants to go, primarily a World Series contender, and Houston gets to get better really quicker than two years and a hope the prospects pan out. Would Philly or Tampa Bay be a destination? Especially Philly if they get wind that Oswalt may be a fit in St. Louis?
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Methinks the fans are on to the Astros not being competitive enough to make the playoffs this year (despite the Foghorn pleas to the contrary). If there were not, the turnstiles would be turning and McLane would be saying "Oswalt is going nowhere as long as I'm the owner". Or something like that. I like that the Astros *ARE* building for the future with their High A and AA players, but they're going to need more. This may be an opportunity more than a bad idea.
It all depends on your perspective I suppose, but this may be a win-win if you're a fan of Oswalt. He gets to go where he wants to go, primarily a World Series contender, and Houston gets to get better really quicker than two years and a hope the prospects pan out. Would Philly or Tampa Bay be a destination? Especially Philly if they get wind that Oswalt may be a fit in St. Louis?
The Rays (http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&baseballScope=mlb&subScope=teamCode&statType=2&sitSplit=&venueID=null&timeSubFrame2=null&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2010&teamPosCode=tba) have a 2.80-something ERA as a team right now, and all 5 of their starters are doing well. Maybe if somebody struggles a bit, and they decide they want a guy like Oswalt to provide some leadership (or at least "veteran presence")?
The Phils (http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&baseballScope=mlb&subScope=teamCode&statType=2&sitSplit=&venueID=null&timeSubFrame2=null&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2010&teamPosCode=phi) seem like they could use Oswalt for sure, though they may be reluctant to gut their prospects for a third straight year.
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The Rays (http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&baseballScope=mlb&subScope=teamCode&statType=2&sitSplit=&venueID=null&timeSubFrame2=null&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2010&teamPosCode=tba) have a 2.80-something ERA as a team right now, and all 5 of their starters are doing well. Maybe if somebody struggles a bit, and they decide they want a guy like Oswalt to provide some leadership (or at least "veteran presence")?
The Phils (http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=mlb&baseballScope=mlb&subScope=teamCode&statType=2&sitSplit=&venueID=null&timeSubFrame2=null&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=2010&teamPosCode=phi) seem like they could use Oswalt for sure, though they may be reluctant to gut their prospects for a third straight year.
I wouldn't oppose taking Dominic Brown off their hands if they were willing.
It's hard to size up the market right now. Most "true contenders" either don't have the money, the need, or the prospects to swing a deal. The Rangers could end up as the best fit, if they can find an owner.
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I wouldn't oppose taking Dominic Brown off their hands if they were willing.
It's hard to size up the market right now. Most "true contenders" either don't have the money, the need, or the prospects to swing a deal. The Rangers could end up as the best fit, if they can find an owner.
The Rangers ownership situation should be cleared up by July. So says Selig but at this point it wouldn't totally surprise me if not. Apparantly, it's a mess.
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It's where Oswalt wants to go and what contender wants to increase their chances to win it all (not just win). Teams are going to line up, but most of them will be out in terms of what Oswalt wants to do. Houston will be able to entertain offers from contenders, it just what they're ready to trade and if Oswalt wants to go there (re: Rangers? I don't think so).
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Footer quotes Roy (via Twitter here (http://twitter.com/alysonfooter/status/14063757283) and here (http://twitter.com/alysonfooter/status/14063773499)) after the game:
"I felt good. Not as good as I felt my last start, but good enough to lose."
"All I can do is pitch. There's nothing else I can do. And see what happens."
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Good enough to lose?
Good lord, it must suck to be pissy Roy Oswalt making a shit ton of cash from an old geezer grocery supplier. Trade his ass at the deadline, Ed. Get all you can get.
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McTaggart with some more postgame comments: LINK (http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/05/frustrations-all-around-with-astros.html)
Oswalt was clearly upset about the lack of run support.
"I knew I needed to probably throw a shutout, you know, maybe we can get one [run]," he said. "A pitch backed up on me on a slider. I was trying to go down and away, and it backed up over the plate."
Teammate Lance Berkman was asked point-blankly what he thought of Oswalt's comments about the lack of run support: "We're a team, you know what I'm saying?" he said. "As much as you want to cry for a guy not getting run support, it's a team game. We win as a team, we lose as a team, and we lost today. I certainly understand his frustration, but it's not like we're not trying. We're out there grinding them out and trying to score some runs, and it hasn't happened."
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Footer quotes Roy (via Twitter here (http://twitter.com/alysonfooter/status/14063757283) and here (http://twitter.com/alysonfooter/status/14063773499)) after the game:
"I felt good. Not as good as I felt my last start, but good enough to lose."
"All I can do is pitch. There's nothing else I can do. And see what happens."
From McTaggart's blog
http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/05/frustrations-all-around-with-astros.html
Teammate Lance Berkman was asked point-blankly what he thought of Oswalt's comments about the lack of run support: "We're a team, you know what I'm saying?" he said. "As much as you want to cry for a guy not getting run support, it's a team game. We win as a team, we lose as a team, and we lost today. I certainly understand his frustration, but it's not like we're not trying. We're out there grinding them out and trying to score some runs, and it hasn't happened."
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Oswalt was clearly upset about the lack of run support.
"I knew I needed to probably throw a shutout, you know, maybe we can get one [run]," he said. "A pitch backed up on me on a slider. I was trying to go down and away, and it backed up over the plate."
That's a pretty shitty comment to make to the press. Seriously crosses the line.
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It's where Oswalt wants to go and what contender wants to increase their chances to win it all (not just win). Teams are going to line up, but most of them will be out in terms of what Oswalt wants to do. Houston will be able to entertain offers from contenders, it just what they're ready to trade and if Oswalt wants to go there (re: Rangers? I don't think so).
Where are the Weir Mudbugs in the standings and do they have a slugging corner OF and a Grade A starter prospect?
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Why the fuck is everyone ready to jump on Roy about his very, very mild public display of what must be profound frustration? The every-day player with the highest average in the lineup today was Humberto Fucking Quintero. Roy is more than holding up his end of things, 3-4-5 are a fucking cipher. The rest of the lineup is, too, excepting Bourn, but the rest of the lineup was expected to be a cipher.
Sure, Lance, it's a team game, and the team has a better chance to win when you hit.
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Why the fuck is everyone ready to jump on Roy about his very, very mild public display of what must be profound frustration? The every-day player with the highest average in the lineup today was Humberto Fucking Quintero. Roy is more than holding up his end of things, 3-4-5 are a fucking cipher. The rest of the lineup is, too, excepting Bourn, but the rest of the lineup was expected to be a cipher.
Sure, Lance, it's a team game, and the team has a better chance to win when you hit.
Well how many Oswalt Innings have there been and how many has Berkman gone public about?
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Why the fuck is everyone ready to jump on Roy about his very, very mild public display of what must be profound frustration?
In my version of the Oswalt to English translation book his comments read "trade me, NOW!" Roy is one of my favorite 'Stros, but his childish antics are getting old.
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Fuck the Cubs (or Cards, your choice)!
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Well how many Oswalt Innings have there been and how many has Berkman gone public about?
Not pleased with Roy's comments, but Berkman could have kept his big mouth shut as well. WWBD?
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WWBD?
Double and homer, driving in 4, making this a moot point.
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Well how many Oswalt Innings have there been and how many has Berkman gone public about?
this right here.
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You guys can spin this any way you want but who's pitching like an ace on a hapless fucking team and who's making $14MM and hitting .250?
I already know who's making $18MM and hitting .180.
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You guys can spin this any way you want but who's pitching like an ace on a hapless fucking team and who's making $14MM and hitting .250?
I already know who's making $18MM and hitting .180.
What spin? Cmon, chuck, we all agree that Roy has been nails this year and he deserves better run support from the middle of the order, but slagging your teammates in the postgame is not something a veteran of his stature should do.
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I think that was a tip of the cap to Lincecum. ANY pitcher facing him has to hope for 1 or 2 runs.
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I think that was a tip of the cap to Lincecum. ANY pitcher facing him has to hope for 1 or 2 runs.
The funny thing is that Lincecum really struggled yesterday with his command. When he's on, throwing four different pitches with good command of all of them, he's really good. We had a chance against him yesterday.
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Why the fuck is everyone ready to jump on Roy about his very, very mild public display of what must be profound frustration? The every-day player with the highest average in the lineup today was Humberto Fucking Quintero. Roy is more than holding up his end of things, 3-4-5 are a fucking cipher. The rest of the lineup is, too, excepting Bourn, but the rest of the lineup was expected to be a cipher.
Sure, Lance, it's a team game, and the team has a better chance to win when you hit.
because it is a team game. that is a very simple concept. should the hitters rip him to the press for his Oswalt innings? no, they should not.
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Exactly. Did Biggio and Bagwell rip Roy for turning the tide of the World Series with his meltdown?
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I'm not sure where the disconnect is occurring. No one has an issue with Roy being frustrated. It's the venting to the media. One is human, the other immature. No one is saying Roy can't feel how he feels. He just needs to keep it behind the clubhouse doors. The unfortunate part is, this isn't a first for this type of behavior.
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I'm not sure where the disconnect is occurring. No one has an issue with Roy being frustrated. It's the venting to the media. One is human, the other immature. No one is saying Roy can't feel how he feels. He just needs to keep it behind the clubhouse doors. The unfortunate part is, this isn't a first for this type of behavior.
it is an annual event making one think of swallows and Capistrano.
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it is an annual event making one think of swallows and Capistrano.
Nice... that made my day.
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Exactly. Did Biggio and Bagwell rip Roy for turning the tide of the World Series with his meltdown?
What Oswalt said was out of line. I wish that Berkman hadn't responded though. As Coach said, it's a team game.
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Further proof of how messed up things have gotten: ESPN has an Insider article (which I haven't read) suggesting the Nationals may make a play for Oswalt. I see their record and they should be even better with Storen and Strasburg joining the club, but the Nationals? We've gotten to the point where the Nationals are wanting our players for a playoff run? That's just wrong.
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Oswalt for Strasburg.
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Further proof of how messed up things have gotten: ESPN has an Insider article (which I haven't read) suggesting the Nationals may make a play for Oswalt. I see their record and they should be even better with Storen and Strasburg joining the club, but the Nationals? We've gotten to the point where the Nationals are wanting our players for a playoff run? That's just wrong.
Hmm... I'd be game for a straight up Oswalt for Strasburg trade. Why the hell not. Even throw in Pence to make it Zimmerman and Strasburg for Pence and Oswalt. Seems totally fair to me. Anyone see a problem with this?
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Oswalt for Strasburg.
Dude, you are thinking entirely too small...
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Dude, you are thinking entirely too small...
Oswalt and Lee for Strasburg.
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Oswalt and Lee for Strasburg.
Bravo
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Oswalt and Lee for Strasburg.
We'd be fools not to offer it.
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Hmm... if Roy wants Atlanta, I think we have to throw in Pence (and maybe Bogusevic) for Heywood (that young kid in RF) and their two top pitching prospects. Adding in Bogusevic is only if they have doubts about Pence. I figure, an extra player and a picture of Pence's hustle face should seal the deal.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Personally, I can't see how this is not a win-win deal for both sides. Show me a team that doesn't appreciate hustle-face and I'll show you a team not interested in a championship.
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Hmm... if Roy wants Atlanta, I think we have to throw in Pence (and maybe Bogusevic) for Heywood (that young kid in RF) and their two top pitching prospects. Adding in Bogusevic is only if they have doubts about Pence. I figure, an extra player and a picture of Pence's hustle face should seal the deal.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Personally, I can't see how this is not a win-win deal for both sides. Show me a team that doesn't appreciate hustle-face and I'll show you a team not interested in a championship.
Oswalt AND Pence demands proven young, major league ready commodities. Heywood and Hanson straight up for Pence and Oswalt.
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Oswalt AND Pence demands proven young, major league ready commodities. Heywood and Hanson straight up for Pence and Oswalt.
Okay, now this is getting ridiculous.
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Chances of Atlanta trading Heywood are about as good as your chance of seeing Drayton and Berkman doing tequila shots at the BUS after a game.
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Chances of Atlanta trading Heywood are about as good as your chance of seeing Drayton and Berkman doing tequila shots at the BUS after a game.
I don't think you're playing correctly.
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Chances of Atlanta trading Heywood are about as good as your chance of seeing Drayton and Berkman doing tequila shots each other at the BUS after a game.
FIFY
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Oswalt and Lee for Strasburg.
Don't forget to throw Zimmerman and Lebron James into that deal. The Rockets can chip in with Yao.
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Don't forget to throw Zimmerman and Lebron James into that deal. The Rockets can chip in with Yao.
Forget Lebron. They're going to throw in "Baseball's Lebron" as a PTBNL.
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Roy's buddy Jake Peavy chimes in.....
"We'll see what happens with him," said Peavy, who spoke to Oswalt as recently as Monday night. "It's pretty inevitable he's going to be moved off of a tough situation. They have some holes to fill and trading him will help that organization and be a better situation for him."
"It would be nice to play with him, no doubt about that," Peavy said. "I wish him the best. He has a lot left in the tank."
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100518&content_id=10150136¬ebook_id=10151786&vkey=notebook_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws
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Roy's buddy Jake Peavy chimes in.....
"We'll see what happens with him," said Peavy, who spoke to Oswalt as recently as Monday night. "It's pretty inevitable he's going to be moved off of a tough situation. They have some holes to fill and trading him will help that organization and be a better situation for him."
"It would be nice to play with him, no doubt about that," Peavy said. "I wish him the best. He has a lot left in the tank."
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100518&content_id=10150136¬ebook_id=10151786&vkey=notebook_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws
I didn't say it. Jake Peavy said it.
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Roy's buddy Jake Peavy chimes in.....
"We'll see what happens with him," said Peavy, who spoke to Oswalt as recently as Monday night. "It's pretty inevitable he's going to be moved off of a tough situation. They have some holes to fill and trading him will help that organization and be a better situation for him."
"It would be nice to play with him, no doubt about that," Peavy said. "I wish him the best. He has a lot left in the tank."
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100518&content_id=10150136¬ebook_id=10151786&vkey=notebook_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws
Methinks Peavy knows quite a bit. It's where Roy wants to go at this point but the Astros have to pretend not to be desperate. Ahum, that was hard to type without laughing.
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Methinks Peavy knows quite a bit. It's where Roy wants to go at this point but the Astros have to pretend not to be desperate. Ahum, that was hard to type without laughing.
I heard some scuttle today up here in NoTexas about Roy wanting to be a Ranger because of Maddux. Who knows
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I heard some scuttle today up here in NoTexas about Roy wanting to be a Ranger because of Maddux. Who knows
Round Rock pitchers who were under the tutelage of Maddux started to not listen to him much. It was Maddux who convinced Oswalt to pitch to contact instead of trying to strike everybody out. But Roy didn't really spend much time in AA under Maddux, he went to the Olympics for a good long while that season and then the next year spent one month in AAA New Orleans (under Hickey) before going to the bigs under Hooton. Hooton preached "first pitch strikes" and "be aggressive on 0-2 counts", very much a Larry Dierker mentality. Hickey came up to the bigs and was really the guy who spent the most time with Oswalt, basically preaching the IPs, getting late into innings, throwing more fastballs, challenge hitters until they can prove they can hit your pitch. Very much a mirror of Garner.
So back to Maddux: He has this habit of touching pitchers a little too much. It's innocent, but after a while, many of the young pitchers in AA didn't really appreciate it. Maddux was given more credit for his work with guys like Saarloos, Hernandez, Redding, Lidge and several others. I really don't think Oswalt had much to do with Maddux other than give him credit for being the first to preach "pitch to contact" to him.
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So back to Maddux: He has this habit of touching pitchers a little too much. It's innocent, but after a while, many of the young pitchers in AA didn't really appreciate it. Maddux was given more credit for his work with guys like Saarloos, Hernandez, Redding, Lidge and several others. I really don't think Oswalt had much to do with Maddux other than give him credit for being the first to preach "pitch to contact" to him.
wait
oswalt is a homophobe?
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wait
oswalt is a homophobe?
Probably, but that has nothing to do with this.
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Latest: (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100520)
But GM Ed Wade tells Rumblings that McLane has never told the baseball operation that any kind of trade is off limits if it can make the Astros better.
"We want to win with the group we have now," Wade said. "But if, at some point, it looks like that's not possible, we have to pay attention to any opportunity that makes us better. And if that means we have to look in a different direction, so be it."
Asked whether McLane understands that, Wade replied: "Yes."
...
If the Astros ever were to trade both of them, it would mean the exit of the last links to the Killer B's glory years and the end of an era in Houston. And although that might be tough for some Houstonians to accept (including, we'd guess, McLane), Wade says:
"I'm not sure it's my position to necessarily get bogged down in eras. I always say the glory years of the Astros coincided with Craig Biggio hitting the home run off Billy Wagner in 2005 (that launched the Astros to the wild card and, eventually, the World Series). But all that home run did for me was hasten my departure [as the GM] in Philadelphia. So it's safe to say I have a slightly different perspective than other people here."
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"I'm not sure it's my position to necessarily get bogged down in eras. I always say the glory years of the Astros coincided with Craig Biggio hitting the home run off Billy Wagner in 2005 (that launched the Astros to the wild card and, eventually, the World Series). But all that home run did for me was hasten my departure [as the GM] in Philadelphia. So it's safe to say I have a slightly different perspective than other people here."
Hmmm. Interesting.
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Hmmm. Interesting.
I can't believe you would suggest Ed Wade is working with the Illuminati in a revenge scheme to bring the Astros AND Craig Biggio down by gaining the trust of the organization he so despises with Sasquatch as his ultimate tool of destruction.
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I can't believe you would suggest Ed Wade is working with the Illuminati in a revenge scheme to bring the Astros AND Craig Biggio down by gaining the trust of the organization he so despises with Sasquatch as his ultimate tool of destruction.
Nah, just never really thought of Biggio's HR in that light before.
As an aside though, your an idiot if you think I was referring to some kind of Illuminati conspiracy. Everyone knows Wade is a Trilateralist...
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Nah, just never really thought of Biggio's HR in that light before.
As an aside though, your an idiot if you think I was referring to some kind of Illuminati conspiracy. Everyone knows Wade is a Trilateralist...
Only because his application for membership to the Pentaverate was denied.
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Only because his application for membership to the Pentaverate was denied.
He's also a member of the Build-A-Bear Group.
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a Trilateralist...
Is that what you get when cross a lesbian and a bisexual? NTTAWWT....
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Is that what you get when cross a lesbian and a bisexual? NTTAWWT....
Actually I was thinking it was a procrastinator with ADHD, but then it would probably be a Trylateralist.
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Latest: (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100520)
But GM Ed Wade tells Rumblings that McLane has never told the baseball operation that any kind of trade is off limits if it can make the Astros better.
"We want to win with the group we have now," Wade said. "But if, at some point, it looks like that's not possible, we have to pay attention to any opportunity that makes us better. And if that means we have to look in a different direction, so be it."
Asked whether McLane understands that, Wade replied: "Yes."
...
If the Astros ever were to trade both of them, it would mean the exit of the last links to the Killer B's glory years and the end of an era in Houston. And although that might be tough for some Houstonians to accept (including, we'd guess, McLane), Wade says:
"I'm not sure it's my position to necessarily get bogged down in eras. I always say the glory years of the Astros coincided with Craig Biggio hitting the home run off Billy Wagner in 2005 (that launched the Astros to the wild card and, eventually, the World Series). But all that home run did for me was hasten my departure [as the GM] in Philadelphia. So it's safe to say I have a slightly different perspective than other people here."
Ed wade is telling everyone in the MLB who will listen that it's time to talk Oswalt and possibly Berkman in trade talks this season. He's doing his job to set the market.
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I'm looking everywhere for the video of Biggio's homer off GasCan in 2005, but I can't find it anywhere. It used to be buried on the Astros' site, then it moved to an MLB site, and now I can't find it anywhere.
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I'm looking everywhere for the video of Biggio's homer off GasCan in 2005, but I can't find it anywhere. It used to be buried on the Astros' site, then it moved to an MLB site, and now I can't find it anywhere.
Made Harry Kalas (http://crashburnalley.com/2008/02/06/harry-kalas-radio-interview/) cry! (Not a video link, just an interview/article)
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Made Harry Kalas (http://crashburnalley.com/2008/02/06/harry-kalas-radio-interview/) cry! (Not a video link, just an interview/article)
That makes it even more awesome! It's my favorite Craig Biggio homer and now I can't even find the video.
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That makes it even more awesome! It's my favorite Craig Biggio homer and now I can't even find the video.
I believe AstrosDaily has an audio of the homerun and not the video. "OH MY!" is Jimmy D's reaction. If, however, you want to see a sweet Houston Astros tribute to Craig Biggio on his 3K hit, here is a link (http://vimeo.com/7906205) for you.
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I'm looking everywhere for the video of Biggio's homer off GasCan in 2005, but I can't find it anywhere. It used to be buried on the Astros' site, then it moved to an MLB site, and now I can't find it anywhere.
http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=63110.msg63883#msg63883
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Awesome, thanks guys! Two new bookmarks.
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And it's official, maybe:
The July 31 trading deadline is more than two months away, but one of baseball's best pitchers has asked to be put on the market.
Houston Astros ace Roy Oswalt, a three-time National League All-Star, has asked owner Drayton McLane Jr. to be traded, a source said Friday.
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/05/oswalt-requests-trade-from-houston.html
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And it's official, maybe:
http://www.chicagobreakingsports.com/2010/05/oswalt-requests-trade-from-houston.html
And that source's name rhymes with Steak Leavy.
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Dick's twitter says Wade has confirmed it, although nothing from Mctaggart or Alyson yet.
Astros GM Ed Wade has just confirmed that Roy Oswalt has asked to be traded. #hounews 2 minutes ago via UberTwitter
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That's one way to get a bidding war started.
Seeing Roy pitch in another jersey will be tough but it's time to turn the page.
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That's one way to get a bidding war started.
Seeing Roy pitch in another jersey will be tough but it's time to turn the page.
So long as it is not in a Jake, scrub, Red Sox or Yankee uni, I'll ultimately get over it...
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Story from Fallas: LINK (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7016780.html)
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Wow, just in time for the Rays coming into town too. Coin-ci-dinky? I think not!
Thanks Gerry.
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His agent called Drayton last night after Ubaldo Jimenez dominated his teammates. Could the Rukkakes be on his short list?
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Asking to be traded, rather than just willing to be traded? If true, fuck him.
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Fuck you, Roy. It has been all about you for a long time.
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Asking to be traded, rather than just willing to be traded? If true, fuck him.
Per the Fallas link:
Oswalt’s agent, Bob Garber, contacted Astros owner Drayton McLane on Thursday and communicated the pitcher’s request, Wade said.
"The request was made, and it really doesn't change anything on our end," Wade said. "We want to win with the guys who are here.
***
Asked if Oswalt had demanded a trade, Wade said: "I'm going to put my tongue in my cheek and say that Roy's contract includes a no-trade clause, not a trade-me clause. There is no rule that allows a player in his contract status to demand a trade. Demand, request... it's all the same and duly noted."
He declined to discuss the issue further.
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His agent called Drayton last night after Ubaldo Jimenez dominated his teammates. Could the Rukkakes be on his short list?
Funny thing, this list of his. He's pretty much let folks know for two years that he would love to pitch in St. Louis or Atlanta (close to home). Beyond that, he had no real opinion. Since that first instance of mentioning St. Louie and Atlanta, he's developed a friendship with Peavey who is now in Chicago, toiling for the WhiteSox. Now Oswalt says he wants to pitch for a legitimate contender. If you ask me, the list then becomes this:
1. Tampa Bay
2. New York Yankees
3. Philadelphia
4. St. Louis
5. Minnesota Twins
Outside of those clubs, I don't really see any locks. It could be a Wild Card team like the Rockies that draws interest, but I don't really know if Oswalt likes Coors Field and what that launch pad will do for his game. Plus, in terms of true defense, there are times that team has lapses that make you wonder just how much they'll stay in the hunt. Other teams in a similar position would be the LA Dodgers and San Francisco. I know the Jints are playing well right now and they have the pitching that will make sure slumps are not an extended thing, but that lineup is not what I'd call a World Series caliber team like the ones mentioned above. Same goes for most teams in the AL West, who take turns beating each other up and then slinking out of the playoffs early.
I don't really know what Ed Wade will do, if anything, but playing those five clubs above against each other would be nice! Imagine the Yankees hearing that Gerry Hunsicker, a one-time Astros GM, is calling his good friend Tal Smith and also good friend Ed Wade asking about Oswalt. What do you think the Yanks will do? Same scenario would be with St. Louis and Philadelphia. Minnesota would be an interesting trading partner now that they can afford to pay players with the new crib. Steinbrenner's brain would explode if he thought the Twinkies would get a quailty pitcher like Oswalt.
This could get interesting to say the least.
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Detroit and Minnesota are contenders. MIN could probably afford him with the new stadium revenue. Rangers have the prospects to do a deal, but do you really think McLane would willingly let Roy go there? Despite being behind in the standings, I'd have to think Roy would agree to a trade to pitch with his boy on the south side. Who knows, the desire to get the hell out of town might lower his standards even more...
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Detroit and Minnesota are contenders. MIN could probably afford him with the new stadium revenue. Rangers have the prospects to do a deal, but do you really think McLane would willingly let Roy go there? Despite being behind in the standings, I'd have to think Roy would agree to a trade to pitch with his boy on the south side. Who knows, the desire to get the hell out of town might lower his standards even more...
honestly, I know this year is bad, but I'm more surprised this didn't happen last year. Oswalt (and berkman) couldn't have thought this franchise was going anywhere in the near term, and, with the apparent bad blood with coop in the clubhouse, just surprising roy didn't start bitching last year. Hope Lance handles the situation with more class and handles it in house, if it comes to that.
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Detroit and Minnesota are contenders. MIN could probably afford him with the new stadium revenue. Rangers have the prospects to do a deal, but do you really think McLane would willingly let Roy go there? Despite being behind in the standings, I'd have to think Roy would agree to a trade to pitch with his boy on the south side. Who knows, the desire to get the hell out of town might lower his standards even more...
If wind gets out that the Rangers are the main player, all the other contenders will not care and you won't have a market. As such, why would the Rangers offer anything of value? Think supply and demand.
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David Pinto had an interesting comment on Twitter: "Astros could say, 'We're not going to trade you unless you waive first.' That way, they can send him anywhere."
Not sure how practical that would be (and doubt seriously Roy would agree). Am curious though, if Wade said something along the lines of "if you want a trade that badly Roy, agree to change the no-trade clause to a limited no-trade and I'll see what I can do". (Could this / how would this work HH?).
Whatever the case, I have to think the fact Roy requested that the Astros trade him (as opposed to the Astros asking Roy if he would be willing to be traded) is a good thing for the team. I'd imagine that his desire to get the hell out would make him willing to 'broaden his trade horizons' a bit... [/wildassspeculation][/forthemoment]
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Given how he initiated the trade request, fuck him. Waive the no-trade or shut the ever livin' fuck up. I am officially sick of Roy's shit. Shut up and pitch, boy. You are not entitled to jack, other than your salary and your no-trade clause.
oh, and pardon the language....
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David Pinto had an interesting comment on Twitter: "Astros could say, 'We're not going to trade you unless you waive first.' That way, they can send him anywhere."
Not sure how practical that would be (and doubt seriously Roy would agree). Am curious though, if Wade said something along the lines of "if you want a trade that badly Roy, agree to change the no-trade clause to a limited no-trade and I'll see what I can do". (Could this / how would this work HH?).
Whatever the case, I have to think the fact Roy requested that the Astros trade him (as opposed to the Astros asking Roy if he would be willing to be traded) is a good thing for the team. I'd imagine that his desire to get the hell out would make him willing to 'broaden his trade horizons' a bit... [/wildassspeculation][/forthemoment]
I'm not sure the MLBPA will allow Roy to waive his no-trade. Really, if they work together, even with a limited number of teams on Roy's list (and it is about a contender and not a fringe contender who may or may not make the playoffs), they can work a sweet market for Oswalt's services. A stacked team like St. Louis with pitching becomes a World Series favorite almost overnight. That will make all other World Series contenders stand up and notice and frankly decide they need to block that trade. At that point, it is what you have to offer gentlemen, give it your best shot.
I can't see any other way to 1) give Roy what he wants (and yes, he drives this as much as anyone else, so you have to partner with him) and 2) get something really good in return. I think the Randy Johnson deal is very similar to what is happening now (except the no-trade clause stuff). Unit was coveted by Cleveland and the Yankees were seriously worried about RJ going there. So they moved to block a Cleveland trade by offering more which made Cleveland offer more and then things kind of settled down while Seattle made up their mind. In steps Houston and makes a better offer while Cleveland and New York decide they've made their best offer.
That year, the word was the Yankees were now worried that the Houston Astros became the favorite to win the World Series with that one move. Unit, Reynolds, Lima, Hampton and Bergman. Wagner as closer and the stacked lineup of Biggio, Bell, Bagwell, Everett, Alou was much to fear. I really suspect that Roy is going to a great team, not just any team. And Wade will work a market for a good return.
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Fuck you, Roy. It has been all about you for a long time.
So you're telling me that if you were in Roy's position you would not have your agent underscore your willingness to accept a trade? You, one of the premier pitchers in the game, would prefer to remain with a team that will be lucky to win 70 games? You'd be happy to be completely out of the race by June 1 and end up 5-16 with a sub-3.0 ERA? Really?
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I'm not sure the MLBPA will allow Roy to waive his no-trade.
I don't see why not. He simply makes his list of acceptable teams 31 deep. No reason for MLBPA to get involved.
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So you're telling me that if you were in Roy's position you would not have your agent underscore your willingness to accept a trade? You, one of the premier pitchers in the game, would prefer to remain with a team that will be lucky to win 70 games? You'd be happy to be completely out of the race by June 1 and end up 5-16 with a sub-3.0 ERA? Really?
two words: Team and Game.
Did anyone make a crack about him losing last nights game? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the unearned run was based on HIS error. The next two were earned. Why couldn't he shut out the Rockies? Come on Roy, step up and deliver.
Gutless... that's what I think of him now.
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Aww, he loses his 6th game because the team gets shut out by a guy with an 8-1 record and 0.99 ERA. Poor guy, no wonder he calls in the next day asking to be traded.
Sorry, Chuck. Roy is being a selfish whiner. Although one thing I'm unclear about is who told the press. If Oswalt, then he's being extremely whiny. If it was McLane, or someone in the Astros FO, then it seems they want Roy to take just a bit of an image hit locally, so there will be less of an uproar when he's traded. Hmmmm.
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Wow, just when you think things couldn't get worse.
I mean, yeah I'm kind of pissed at Roy for being selfish, but we're going to lose the best player (by far) on this already awful team.
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Wow, just when you think things couldn't get worse.
I mean, yeah I'm kind of pissed at Roy for being selfish, but we're going to lose the best player (by far) on this already awful team.
Who was it that was told by his team's owner back in the day, "We finished last with you; we can finish last without you"?
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Anybody else see Drayton's response? He worked in a little stab: "Remember that free bulldozer awhile back?"
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Why did this need to be made public? Couldn't Roy or his agent simply gone to Wade and told him this instead of leaking it to the media? What point does making it public serve?
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two words: Team and Game.
Did anyone make a crack about him losing last nights game? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the unearned run was based on HIS error. The next two were earned. Why couldn't he shut out the Rockies? Come on Roy, step up and deliver.
Gutless... that's what I think of him now.
I'll ask you what I asked Jim. If you were Roy's would you have your agent underscore your willingness to be traded or not? Would you make clear your willingness to be traded to a contender or would you prefer to ride out your contract (and, possibly, your career) on a hapless team and with a clueless franchise?
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So you're telling me that if you were in Roy's position you would not have your agent underscore your willingness to accept a trade? You, one of the premier pitchers in the game, would prefer to remain with a team that will be lucky to win 70 games? You'd be happy to be completely out of the race by June 1 and end up 5-16 with a sub-3.0 ERA? Really?
I usually, (for good reason), keep my mouth shut around here. But, this type situation always rubs me raw.
There is a difference between having a willingness to accept a trade and requesting a trade. I don’t expect the worst players in the league to be happy playing for a losing team, much less prefer to stay there. I have no problem with what he wants. But, I want a million dollars. That does not mean I am entitled.
Trading Roy may be best for the Astros. In my opinion that isn’t the issue either.
Roy has had a lot of good years in Houston. It is easy to be the good, likable guy when things go well. No problem being a good teammate then. It’s harder when things don’t go well. Roy fails this test.
Even when they want to be elsewhere a good teammate will still show respect for their peers, their fans, and the organization.
I am willing to accept a trade implies doing something that is for the good of team. I want a trade implies I don’t care if it helps this team or not. I rarely have any patience for athletes who attempt that type power play.
Less my opinion and more of a question – doesn’t public knowledge that he wants a trade lower his trade value?
And what would be a reasonable return in trade? I assume we would be looking for a top notch prospect in the middle infield and a pitcher.
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I'll ask you what I asked Jim. If you were Roy's would you have your agent underscore your willingness to be traded or not? Would you make clear your willingness to be traded to a contender or would you prefer to ride out your contract (and, possibly, your career) on a hapless team and with a clueless franchise?
The clueless franchise that has paid him near 100 million dollars and that has been to the World Series and multiple playoffs while Roy was here?
I can understand him wanting to move on, honestly I hope he does, I am ready to rebuild. But why be an ass about it?
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I don't see why not. He simply makes his list of acceptable teams 31 deep. No reason for MLBPA to get involved.
Jus' don't tho me in that briar patch!
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Less my opinion and more of a question – doesn’t public knowledge that he wants a trade lower his trade value?
In this case, I don't think so. In fact, it might increase his trade value. We're talking about a solid pitcher, which is a commodity that is always in demand. By letting the entire market know that he's available, I think you can set off a bidding war.
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I'll ask you what I asked Jim. If you were Roy's would you have your agent underscore your willingness to be traded or not? Would you make clear your willingness to be traded to a contender or would you prefer to ride out your contract (and, possibly, your career) on a hapless team and with a clueless franchise?
Willingness is not what we're discussing here. He requested a trade. His willingness was made public a couple weeks back. That's a non-story. Telling his best bud he asked for a trade, having his agent go public, making it about him not being on a winning team is not the same as willing to accept a trade, for a mutually beneficial outcome for the team that drafted, developed, and paid him for the past 10 yrs. What he did was ask to be traded (and we're all assuming he didn't DEMAND a trade) because he's not happy about not getting a win. WFW...
Trade him. I will be tuning out of Oswalt's games, this point forward. I'd rather watch BRAVO than watch Oswalt pitch.
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So you're telling me that if you were in Roy's position you would not have your agent underscore your willingness to accept a trade? You, one of the premier pitchers in the game, would prefer to remain with a team that will be lucky to win 70 games? You'd be happy to be completely out of the race by June 1 and end up 5-16 with a sub-3.0 ERA? Really?
I don't have a particular problem with him desiring to be traded to a team contending. He's in the last 2 years of his contract, doesn't necessarily want to pitch for a long time after that, getting older, and having a good season. Fine. He can underscore that he'd be willing to be traded, or heck can even ask ("Hey Drayton, I'm only going to pitch through next year and really want a ring. The org has meant alot to me, and would not be asking this if we stood a chance. Yada, yada, yada).
My problem with Roy is, like as Outlookdude says, "Even when they want to be elsewhere a good teammate will still show respect for their peers, their fans, and the organization." Roy has been whining, publicly, about the team and acting like a prima dona for a while. Now, the scoop on the trade request come from a Chicago reporter? I don't believe for a second that Roy did not orchestrate that through his BFF Jake...
For the whining, and trying to put public pressure on Drayton and Wade, I do have no problem telling him not to let the door hit him in the ass on his way out. [I really like 'Roy', and will miss having him a part of the franchise. This prima dona dude wearing his jersey this year not so much...]
That said, I do wonder if the fact that this is public may actually benefit the Astros in their trade talks. Wouldn't surprise me if it did.
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Oswalt and Lee for Strasburg.
Then they could atleast act like they were trying to win. Last year all they got were t-shirts.
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I don't have a problem with this at all. Joe Niekro got traded. Jose Cruz got traded. Larry Dierker got traded. It's a business. As per the "going public" stuff, well... ain't nuttin new with Roy. He's thrown other players under the bus before, he is a bit selfish to say the least. Is this another example? A little, but it's what you get with Roy... the good and the bad.
But you make lemonade out of lemons and this is really a great opportunity for Wade and the Astros. It accelerates the need to let kids play, start to bridge to those prospects in High A ball and AA. It's about time to stop fooling everyone in Houston that you don't rebuild, you reload. If anything, at least Roy pretty much is saying "Go ahead, do the right thing and rebuild!". He is not part of a rebuilding effort.
BTW - the more I think about it, I like the idea of seeing what you can get from Minnesota. I'm sure the lack of Joe Nathan has them wondering if they'll need a closer down the road. A package of Roy and Lyon might grab you some sweet prospects if that's the case. Hey, since the operative word is "listen", then heck why not listen to offers for Oswalt and Lindstrom from the Twinkies. Better be a great deal though. A very great deal!
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I don't have a problem with this at all. Joe Niekro got traded. Jose Cruz got traded. Larry Dierker got traded. It's a business. As per the "going public" stuff, well... ain't nuttin new with Roy. He's thrown other players under the bus before, he is a bit selfish to say the least. Is this another example? A little, but it's what you get with Roy... the good and the bad.
But you make lemonade out of lemons and this is really a great opportunity for Wade and the Astros. It accelerates the need to let kids play, start to bridge to those prospects in High A ball and AA. It's about time to stop fooling everyone in Houston that you don't rebuild, you reload. If anything, at least Roy pretty much is saying "Go ahead, do the right thing and rebuild!". He is not part of a rebuilding effort.
BTW - the more I think about it, I like the idea of seeing what you can get from Minnesota. I'm sure the lack of Joe Nathan has them wondering if they'll need a closer down the road. A package of Roy and Lyon might grab you some sweet prospects if that's the case. Hey, since the operative word is "listen", then heck why not listen to offers for Oswalt and Lindstrom from the Twinkies. Better be a great deal though. A very great deal!
The concern I have about Minnesota is that they understand better than anyone the need to maintain a pipeline from the minors. I'm not convinced they'll give up much just to get these guys for a relatively short payoff. Teams like the Yankmees and BoSox who know that they can buy their way out of temporary shortages might be more willing to part with meaningful prospects.
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I don't have a problem with this at all. Joe Niekro got traded. Jose Cruz got traded. Larry Dierker got traded. It's a business. As per the "going public" stuff, well... ain't nuttin new with Roy. He's thrown other players under the bus before, he is a bit selfish to say the least. Is this another example? A little, but it's what you get with Roy... the good and the bad.
But you make lemonade out of lemons and this is really a great opportunity for Wade and the Astros. It accelerates the need to let kids play, start to bridge to those prospects in High A ball and AA. It's about time to stop fooling everyone in Houston that you don't rebuild, you reload. If anything, at least Roy pretty much is saying "Go ahead, do the right thing and rebuild!". He is not part of a rebuilding effort.
BTW - the more I think about it, I like the idea of seeing what you can get from Minnesota. I'm sure the lack of Joe Nathan has them wondering if they'll need a closer down the road. A package of Roy and Lyon might grab you some sweet prospects if that's the case. Hey, since the operative word is "listen", then heck why not listen to offers for Oswalt and Lindstrom from the Twinkies. Better be a great deal though. A very great deal!
I was never opposed to a trade, if it was a mutually beneficial situation. Oswalt's antics say one thing, ME. Good luck wherever you land Roy. But I may start referring to him as the Mississippi Whore or the Whore from Weir.... if anyone has something better, let me know.
And given Wade's comments when addressing the topic, he'll keep him rather than get hosed. Screw you too, Roy.
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But I may start referring to him as the Mississippi Whore or the Whore from Weir.... if anyone has something better, let me know.
Roy Favre
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willing to accept a trade, for a mutually beneficial outcome for the team that drafted, developed, and paid him for the past 10 yrs.
He's made this plain before, his willingness to depart the only franchise he's ever known in order to better its future chances. The guy who signs the checks is the only person in the country who follows major league baseball who has not seen the writing on the wall.
So I'll take that as a no, you'd be perfectly happy to pitch at a 2.50 clip (ERA) and a .250 record so as not to be seen as a whiner. Got it. By any chance are you looking for a job? If so go ahead and send your resume to Snapple and we'll have a quick look.
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He's made this plain before, his willingness to depart the only franchise he's ever known in order to better its future chances.
So the only reason he wants to leave is to better the Astros? Interesting.
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"trade me" is a lot more than "willingness"
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So the only reason he wants to leave is to better the Astros? Interesting.
It's possible that he realizes that this is the only way to make McLane open his eyes to reality.
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You guys need to get the fuck over the fact that the team's best player is making plain to an already aware public that the Houston Astros are a fucking joke of a major league franchise. I mean, seriously.
Over-emotional bitches, all of you. Next time you do something in the stock market please let me know.
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It's possible that he realizes that this is the only way to make McLane open his eyes to reality.
The reverse Billy Wagner? I love it!
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By any chance are you looking for a job? If so go ahead and send your resume to Snapple and we'll have a quick look.
Are you the guy who picks the good stuff?
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You guys need to get the fuck over the fact that the team's best player is making plain to an already aware public that the Houston Astros are a fucking joke of a major league franchise. I mean, seriously.
I agree with this. Trade him, get the best value you can, move on. This can be a win-win.
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I agree with this. Trade him, get the best value you can, move on. This can be a win-win.
Same here.
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I agree with this. Trade him, get the best value you can, move on. This can be a win-win.
Absolutely. He's checking out, let's get the best return we can. I definitely think that he can inspire a nice bidding war.
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You guys need to get the fuck over the fact that the team's best player is making plain to an already aware public that the Houston Astros are a fucking joke of a major league franchise. I mean, seriously.
Over-emotional bitches, all of you. Next time you do something in the stock market please let me know.
"we suck" is not a justification for "I'm fuckin outta here."
to his teamates, it translate to "y'all suck, I'm special, see ya."
btw, investing is helped by recognizing losers with little character
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Same here.
(eta re: 'moving on') Nah, I'll give myself the rest of the season to be pissy about his recent antics before I go back to remembering fondly of his time with the Good Guys. He's been a joy to watch through his career with the Astros (just not so much to listen to this season...).
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"we suck" is not a justification for "I'm fuckin outta here."
to his teamates, it translate to "y'all suck, I'm special, see ya."
McTaggart's blog: Oswalt's teammates react to trade request (http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/05/oswalts-teammates-react-to-trade-request.html)
Some of Roy Oswalt's teammates, including center fielder Michael Bourn, chose not comment on the news the pitcher has asked owner Drayton McLane to trade him...
Berkman: "That's his deal," he said. "I really don't have anything to say." [oxymoron alert?]
Blum: "I don't know how these things work because I've never been in position to ask for a trade," Blum said. "But I'm sure he's got a lot of reasons why he's saying what he's saying and asking for what Roy asked for. As of right now I'm an Astro and I want to be an Astro, so I'm going to play my heart out for the Astros.
"He has every right to do that. It's unfortunate. It's not something that we want to hear. But it's something that he feels he can do, and having been traded three times and not wanting to be traded, I know the grass isn't always greener on the other side. But if he feels it's his time to ask for a trade, it's his time."
Blum was asked if he was disappointed.
"I like Roy," he said. "Roy's a good dude. We've played extremely well together on the field. I have no ill wills or whatever towards him. I know he wants to win a championship, and he feels it' not going to here, that's probably best that he asks for a trade."
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You guys need to get the fuck over the fact that the team's best player is making plain to an already aware public that the Houston Astros are a fucking joke of a major league franchise. I mean, seriously.
Over-emotional bitches, all of you. Next time you do something in the stock market please let me know.
I need to go back and read what I wrote. I don't recall saying not to trade Oswalt. If I did, let me make clear now, trade him. But only if it benefits the Astros. I don't give a damn about Oswalt's personal desire to play for a contender. McLane doesn't owe him jack. From reading Wade's comments, I think that's exactly what the Astros will do. I stand by the statement that I won't be watching any starts by Oswalt. He's not the only me-first prima donna in sports. He's hardly original in that regard. I'm just sick and tired of watching the same tired routine.
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I don't have a problem with this at all. Joe Niekro got traded. Jose Cruz got traded. Larry Dierker got traded. It's a business. As per the "going public" stuff, well... ain't nuttin new with Roy. He's thrown other players under the bus before, he is a bit selfish to say the least. Is this another example? A little, but it's what you get with Roy... the good and the bad.
But you make lemonade out of lemons and this is really a great opportunity for Wade and the Astros. It accelerates the need to let kids play, start to bridge to those prospects in High A ball and AA. It's about time to stop fooling everyone in Houston that you don't rebuild, you reload. If anything, at least Roy pretty much is saying "Go ahead, do the right thing and rebuild!". He is not part of a rebuilding effort.
BTW - the more I think about it, I like the idea of seeing what you can get from Minnesota. I'm sure the lack of Joe Nathan has them wondering if they'll need a closer down the road. A package of Roy and Lyon might grab you some sweet prospects if that's the case. Hey, since the operative word is "listen", then heck why not listen to offers for Oswalt and Lindstrom from the Twinkies. Better be a great deal though. A very great deal!
Trade Lindstrom? You gotta be fucking kidding me.
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Absolutely. He's checking out, let's get the best return we can. I definitely think that he can inspire a nice bidding war.
I agree that it's a good opportunity, and the best move for the Astros right now. Let's hope it happens fairly quickly, rather than getting drawn out for weeks. His contract, while very much in line with what guys of his caliber are making these days, is not small either, so I'm curious to see who ends up entering this sweepstakes and what they ultimately give up.
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I agree that it's a good opportunity, and the best move for the Astros right now. Let's hope it happens fairly quickly, rather than getting drawn out for weeks. His contract, while very much in line with what guys of his caliber are making these days, is not small either, so I'm curious to see who ends up entering this sweepstakes and what they ultimately give up.
Can't deal him too hastily. I'm fine with dragging it out for another month if that's what Wade decides will lead to the best return. Granted it'll be weird as hell seeing him on the mound in an Astros uni until he goes, but all parties will just have to suck it up until the matter is resolved.
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I agree that it's a good opportunity, and the best move for the Astros right now. Let's hope it happens fairly quickly, rather than getting drawn out for weeks. His contract, while very much in line with what guys of his caliber are making these days, is not small either, so I'm curious to see who ends up entering this sweepstakes and what they ultimately give up.
Cliff Lee went in the offseason, 1 year remaining, for 3 minor leaguers, all highly regarded.
Roy Halladay went in the offseason, and then renegotiated, for 3 of the Phillies' top 5 minor leaguers.
Jake Peavy went midseason for 4 players, 3 of them high-level pitchers.
and the last time Wade dealt an ace:
Schilling went for Omar Daal, Nelson Figueroa, Travis Lee, and Vicente Padilla (yikes!)
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Trade Lindstrom? You gotta be fucking kidding me.
I knew you'd come a-running. Pavlovian much?
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Cliff Lee went in the offseason, 1 year remaining, for 3 minor leaguers, all highly regarded.
Roy Halladay went in the offseason, and then renegotiated, for 3 of the Phillies' top 5 minor leaguers.
Jake Peavy went midseason for 4 players, 3 of them high-level pitchers.
and the last time Wade dealt an ace:
Schilling went for Omar Daal, Nelson Figueroa, Travis Lee, and Vicente Padilla (yikes!)
Let's hope Wade gets calls that are serious from a contender willing to add a sometime ACE to a rock solid rotation (St. Louie or Philly, doesn't matter, same with New York or Tampa). That will make the market for Oswalt and it will be about picking the sweepstakes winner rather than just "accepting" the return because your hands are tied.
They're not.
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I knew you'd come a-running. Pavlovian much?
Nope. Just checking out strange odors.
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Nope. Just checking bringing out strange odors.
FIFY
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So the only reason he wants to leave is to better the Astros? Interesting.
No, but unlike other current players Roy is willing to leave. Would he like to see the franchise get a nice return? I'm sure he would. Is that his primary motivation? I'm sure it's not. He wants to go to a team that is serious about winning rather than spend his last two years on a team that has no real intention of winning. You want to vilify him for that. I have no idea why.
At the same time you clowns want to piss on Carlos for NOT allowing a trade. That fat motherfucker wants to stay in Houston! How dare him!
I mean, seriously, you fuckers deserve Dick Justice.
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I need to go back and read what I wrote. I don't recall saying not to trade Oswalt. If I did, let me make clear now, trade him. But only if it benefits the Astros. I don't give a damn about Oswalt's personal desire to play for a contender. McLane doesn't owe him jack. From reading Wade's comments, I think that's exactly what the Astros will do. I stand by the statement that I won't be watching any starts by Oswalt. He's not the only me-first prima donna in sports. He's hardly original in that regard. I'm just sick and tired of watching the same tired routine.
What routine? Are you furious with Andre Johnson too?
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It's not the what that bother me so much, it's the how. Let's get this clear Chuck. I've not a particular problem with Roy wanting to go. My problem (although I think it works to the Astros advantage ultimately) are with his leaking the story through Peavy (plausible culprit); throwing his teammates under the bus; whining; leaving after a game without talking to reporters (you didn't see Lidge ducking interviews did you), etc. He has handled his discontent poorly this season, and the effect of this will have multiple implications. Like I say, I'll allow myself some time to be pissy about the words and the actions for a while, but'll that'll pass soon enough.
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Speaking of Dick, he had a couple of interesting quotes from McLane: LINK (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/baseball/7017243.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+houstonchronicle%2Fspbb+(HoustonChronicle.com+--+Baseball))
“Now we need to rebuild the organization,” he said. “Up until last year, we had teams we thought just needed one or two more players to make a big difference. That's why we would give up on minor league players to get a veteran we thought would move us forward. Now this is the new plan.”
Pinwheel's opening to the story may prove true yet as well:
Thank you, Roy Oswalt. Thank you for pushing Drayton McLane to a place he was having trouble going on his own. This is where the reconstruction of the Astros should begin. Tear it down. Build it back. When they're whole again, we'll remember that the final chapter of Oswalt's legacy was important and timely.
There were a number of one and two line quotes as well, but it's hard to know what Drayton was actually telling Pinwheel as opposed to the story he was trying to build though.
But the money quote from McLane via the AP: LINK (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=txastrososwalttradereq)
“No. Roy is like I am,” he said. “Do I want to win? Do I want to be a champion? Absolutely.
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He wants to go to a team that is serious about winning rather than spend his last two years on a team that has no real intention of winning.
Didn't Roy make that clear when he came out and said he was willing to waive his no trade clause a couple weeks ago?
You want to vilify him for that. I have no idea why.
Saying that "we" want to vilify him for wanting to go to a contender is a strawman. Nobody is vilifying him for that.
At the same time you clowns want to piss on Carlos for NOT allowing a trade. That fat motherfucker wants to stay in Houston! How dare him!
Has Carlos leaked out to the media that he will NOT allow a trade?
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Has Carlos leaked out to the media that he will NOT allow a trade?
His rejection of multiple trades has served that purpose.
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Given how he initiated the trade request, fuck him. Waive the no-trade or shut the ever livin' fuck up. I am officially sick of Roy's shit. Shut up and pitch, boy. You are not entitled to jack, other than your salary and your no-trade clause.
oh, and pardon the language....
well said. i have been there for quite some time.
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No, but unlike other current players Roy is willing to leave. Would he like to see the franchise get a nice return? I'm sure he would. Is that his primary motivation? I'm sure it's not. He wants to go to a team that is serious about winning rather than spend his last two years on a team that has no real intention of winning. You want to vilify him for that. I have no idea why.
At the same time you clowns want to piss on Carlos for NOT allowing a trade. That fat motherfucker wants to stay in Houston! How dare him!
I mean, seriously, you fuckers deserve Dick Justice.
ah, chuck. ever the superior one looking down at all the common folk. you have only one peer.
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well said. i have been there for quite some time.
There must be something about hard-throwing hicks being prone to verbal diarrhea.
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“Now we need to rebuild the organization,” he said. “Up until last year, we had teams we thought just needed one or two more players to make a big difference. That's why we would give up on minor league players to get a veteran we thought would move us forward. Now this is the new plan.”
Wow.
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Roy is having a good year and is still close to his prime. He should bring a load of talent in a trade. This is where Wade earns his salary.
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but how many teams will want roy knowing he wants to hang it up and go home after this contract
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His rejection of multiple trades has served that purpose.
The Astros have worked out deals and he shot them down? That's the first I've heard that.
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Nope. Just checking out strange odors.
Here, smell this: I think the Astros should listen to trade talks for everyone, including Michael Bourn. That is far from saying they should "trade" him. You need to read a lot better than you do.
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Wow.
For McLane to say that is quite a revelation and yes, that means he's not opposed to Wade making trades to bridge between the High A ball and AA players. It is actually quite refreshing to think they're finally going to go this way.
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but how many teams will want roy knowing he wants to hang it up and go home after this contract
All of them.
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Here, smell this: I think the Astros should listen to trade talks for everyone, including Michael Bourn. That is far from saying they should "trade" him. You need to read a lot better than you do.
If that fellow is looking for strange odors maybe you ought to break out those argyle socks you used to keep around for the ankle biters...
Just sayin'...
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well said. i have been there for quite some time.
While I too have tired of Roy's selfishness, I just can't get too upset about Roy requesting the trade. The relationship between Roy and the Astros hasn't been working for quite some time, due to both Roy's selfishness and the team's inability to build a winner. When the relationship has clearly gone bad, I'm not going to get worked up about Roy asking for the divorce before Drayton does.
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If that fellow is looking for strange odors maybe you ought to break out those argyle socks you used to keep around for the ankle biters...
Just sayin'...
Well now, here is a blast from the past! Good to see you back!
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If that fellow is looking for strange odors maybe you ought to break out those argyle socks you used to keep around for the ankle biters...
Just sayin'...
welcome back, Grizzled Veteran.
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While I too have tired of Roy's selfishness, I just can't get too upset about Roy requesting the trade. The relationship between Roy and the Astros hasn't been working for quite some time, due to both Roy's selfishness and the team's inability to build a winner. When the relationship has clearly gone bad, I'm not going to get worked up about Roy asking for the divorce before Drayton does.
he can do what he wants behind closed doors. that ain't his style. it is all Roy all the time. fuck him.
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I can’t figure out what all the argument is really about. I haven’t seen anyone who posted here who thinks a trade with reasonable return would be bad. I haven’t seen anyone posting who has a problem with Roy wanting out, or wanting a shot at a championship.
But, even those defending Roy do not attempt to defend his actions.
The problem is with the selfish and disrespectful manner in which he has conducted himself, over a significant period of time and specifically very recently. This is not just fuck you, Roy. It’s fuck you too, Roy.
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Here, smell this: I think the Astros should listen to trade talks for everyone, including Michael Bourn. That is far from saying they should "trade" him. You need to read a lot better than you do.
See if you recall writing these words regarding Lindstrom:
"Trading a commodity like Lindstrom is insane. Next."
"Forget the "closer" role, a young, solid power arm. yeh, trade him. That just smacks of dumb to me."
"Let me repeat, you don't trade a power arm that is basically under contract at this point".
"You don't even have to use "closer" to justify keeping Lindstrom around. Shrewd move in the offseason by Wade, it would be dumb to undo the good he did on that one."
"Hey, since the operative word is "listen", then heck why not listen to offers for Oswalt and Lindstrom from the Twinkies. Better be a great deal though. A very great deal."
Now, I anticipate that you are going to use that word "listen" as a disclaimer to disqualify what you previously wrote so consider that I wrote at 1:05pm May 19th which was before your "let me repeat, you don't trade a power arm that is basically under contract at this point" and every other posted comment following that one:
"He's not that young (Lindstrom), two years younger than Oswalt. The Astros have prospective closers in their system like Lo. I wouldn't give him away but I'd listen."
So, I'm not sure it is me that has reading comprehension problems.
I would have let your comment on Lindstrom last night go by totally if not for your smug, superior condescension throughout this whole discussion. You may be an administrator of this board, you may be a Pope, but to me you are just a fan with a megaphone. And that Pavlov's dog comment, nice diversion to change the subject. Totally senseless but very clever. And since I've wasted way too much time on this stupidity, Good day, sir.
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Try reading it again to see who I advocate "trading":
BTW - the more I think about it, I like the idea of seeing what you can get from Minnesota. I'm sure the lack of Joe Nathan has them wondering if they'll need a closer down the road. A package of Roy and Lyon might grab you some sweet prospects if that's the case. Hey, since the operative word is "listen", then heck why not listen to offers for Oswalt and Lindstrom from the Twinkies. Better be a great deal though. A very great deal!
In case you can't, I was talking about Oswalt/Lyon. The part about Lindstrom was an attempt at humor aimed at me, something perhaps you don't get about me or even about this place. You're taking this waaay too seriously. Makes me wonder why you're so wound up about it actually.
It. Was. A. Joke.
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So you're telling me that if you were in Roy's position you would not have your agent underscore your willingness to accept a trade? You, one of the premier pitchers in the game, would prefer to remain with a team that will be lucky to win 70 games? You'd be happy to be completely out of the race by June 1 and end up 5-16 with a sub-3.0 ERA? Really?
I don't think that was what Coach was saying. Of course it would be good to let the club know that Oswalt would *accept* a trade. But that's not what he did--he wants to be traded so that he can be on a winner. Coach is right--it has been all about Roy since, in my opinion, around 2006.
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Roy speaks. (LINK: 7-minute twitter video posted by Footer (http://www.twitvid.com/V2VLD))
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Roy speaks. (LINK: 7-minute twitter video posted by Footer (http://www.twitvid.com/V2VLD))
when did journalists decide it was okay to use a flip camera for a professional interview like that one dude behind Roy?
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Fallas with quotes from the press conference. LINK (http://blogs.chron.com/baseballblog/archives/2010/05/oswalt_speaks_r.html)
He left one out though where Roy said he was surprised the org let out that his agent had made the request that he'd like to be traded. Someone pointed out to him that the story was broken by the Chicago press, not the Houston press.
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when did journalists decide it was okay to use a flip camera for a professional interview like that one dude behind Roy?
When cable TV took over and the dumbing down accelerated beyond anyone's expectations.
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when did journalists decide it was okay to use a flip camera for a professional interview like that one dude behind Roy?
I haven't watched it yet, but there's a good chance it was a newspaper reporter who is now required to provide video for the website in addition to a written story.
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when did journalists decide it was okay to use a flip camera for a professional interview like that one dude behind Roy?
You mean that thingy McTaggart is holding? It looks a lot like the gadget Fuckhouse was sporting yesterday (http://www.foxsportshouston.com/pages/video?PID=RQt3q2N7qaVD194RXKMFg_sPI_yo_DRv).
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when did journalists decide it was okay to use a flip camera for a professional interview like that one dude behind Roy?
When the lighting is good, the Flip HD is very nice
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"I still don't want people to think I'm leaving because we're not doing well right now. That's not the reason. The reason is I don't have much of a window left to play, and I want another shot at winning."
Uh, what?
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I wouldn't get too emotional about Oswalt...the sense of entitlement is par for the course for most big time athletes. The same ego that puts them above the team is also what drives them to shrug off the pressure and come up big. He got the Astros to their only World Series. I will always be grateful for that.
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I wouldn't get too emotional about Oswalt...the sense of entitlement is par for the course for most big time athletes. The same ego that puts them above the team is also what drives them to shrug off the pressure and come up big. He got the Astros to their only World Series. I will always be grateful for that.
He got the Astros to the World Series? That's almost like saying he is the reason the Astros stink this year because he is 2-6.
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Berkman: "That's his deal," he said. "I really don't have anything to say." [oxymoron alert?]
And here it is (also from McTaggart's blog (http://"http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100522&content_id=10330914¬ebook_id=10330918&vkey=notebook_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou"))...
"The difference between a horrendous offense and a scrappy offense is your pitching staff. You win, 2-1, and it's, 'You broke up a double play' and 'You got a big hit from Hunter [Pence],' and that's why you won, 2-1. If you lose, 3-2, you didn't muster anything."
But Berkman admitted the offense needs to do its part, too.
Edited to fix the link
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He got the Astros to the World Series? That's almost like saying he is the reason the Astros stink this year because he is 2-6.
Time for Roy to ride into the sunset...the astros organization has more holes than fabric, so if Roy thinks personal goals are more important that team goals he should keep his mouth shut and have his agent work behind the scenes to get him traded to a team with a brighter immediate future. We will hopefully get a handful of prospects in return.
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All of them.
But how many actually believe it.
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And here it is (also from McTaggart's blog (http://"http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100522&content_id=10330914¬ebook_id=10330918&vkey=notebook_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou"))...
"The difference between a horrendous offense and a scrappy offense is your pitching staff. You win, 2-1, and it's, 'You broke up a double play' and 'You got a big hit from Hunter [Pence],' and that's why you won, 2-1. If you lose, 3-2, you didn't muster anything."
But Berkman admitted the offense needs to do its part, too.
Edited to fix the link
if it's 2 runs against tim lincecum and you win 2-1 then, for sure, it should be "you had a productive out that helped us win!" if you lose 3-2 against some so-so pitcher, and you go hitless with RISP, and you're hitting .233 on the season in the #3 spot, then you suck and you should share in the blame.
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How about everytime a player speaks negatively (directly or indirectly) through the press about his organization and especially his teammates, he's out of line.
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How about everytime a player speaks negatively (directly or indirectly) through the press about his organization and especially his teammates, he's out of line.
absolutely true.
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How about everytime a player speaks negatively (directly or indirectly) through the press about his organization and especially his teammates, he's out of line.
Completely agree.
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How about everytime a player speaks negatively (directly or indirectly) through the press about his organization and especially his teammates, he's out of line.
Nailed it, AZ.
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How about everytime a player speaks negatively (directly or indirectly) through the press about his organization and especially his teammates, he's out of line.
too complicated.
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too complicated.
Not really (http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/fb-ati-hl.jpg?w=500&h=324).
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BP reports that the Angels are going to make a big push for Oswalt, with other likely destinations including MIN, STL, and NYM. TEX and LAD would both make sense but have f'ed-up ownership situations that will preclude deals.
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BP reports that the Angels are going to make a big push for Oswalt, with other likely destinations including MIN, STL, and NYM. TEX and LAD would both make sense but have f'ed-up ownership situations that will preclude deals.
Douchey McWhinypants isn't going to agree to a deal to Anaheim, Minnesota or the Mess. Or the Rangers for that matter.
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Douchey McWhinypants isn't going to agree to a deal to Anaheim, Minnesota or the Mess. Or the Rangers for that matter.
His latest statements were "competitor". Angels should fit that bill.
And if he won't go to the Rangers, then he should have just kept his fucking mouth shut, and I will revise my earlier opinion that you can't get upset for his asking out.
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His latest statements were "competitor". Angels should fit that bill.
And if he won't go to the Rangers, then he should have just kept his fucking mouth shut, and I will revise my earlier opinion that you can't get upset for his asking out.
I would be extremely surprised if he accepted Anaheim or Arlington.
I believe he wants Cards or Braves, Yankees or Red Sox.
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His latest statements were "competitor". Angels should fit that bill.
And if he won't go to the Rangers, then he should have just kept his fucking mouth shut, and I will revise my earlier opinion that you can't get upset for his asking out.
If he wants out, he wants out. He should shut the fuck up and accept a trade to fucking Baltimore, if that's where the Astros send him. If he doesn't, he's a bigger douchebag than he appears.
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If he wants out, he wants out. He should shut the fuck up and accept a trade to fucking Baltimore, if that's where the Astros send him. If he doesn't, he's a bigger douchebag than he appears.
I congree.
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Not really (http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/fb-ati-hl.jpg?w=500&h=324).
Is that the prophet there in the middle?
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BP reports that the Angels are going to make a big push for Oswalt, with other likely destinations including MIN, STL, and NYM. TEX and LAD would both make sense but have f'ed-up ownership situations that will preclude deals.
Angels? I think that any AL West team that comes calling, Oswalt will think the chances of a World Series chance are lessened, not increased. Too bad, because Scocia has his team playing like an NL team and if they show a little more, they can make a push I suppose. The fact that John Lakey bolted last year and had a dust up with Scocia in the playoffs probably doesn't make Oswalt feel good.
I still say that Stl, Atlanta (only because it's his hometown), Tampa Bay and New York are at the top of the list with Boston and maybe Minnesota a good secondary list. All others are a distant third.
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expect the Phillies to try.
my friend: "he needs to shut up."
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expect the Phillies to try.
my friend: "he needs to shut up."
That would make a splash, especially since they traded Cliff Lee just last fall. Your friend is right, as he always seems to be.
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ESPN crawler last night said that the Nats were going to pursue the opportunity as well. I'm sure that's high on his list, but at least it would make me happy for him.
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ESPN is the Fox News Channel of sports.
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ESPN is the Fox News Channel of sports.
I don't know what this means.
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I don't know what this means.
I would guess he means fair and balanced, but we all know that ain't true.
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ESPN crawler last night said that the Nats were going to pursue the opportunity as well. I'm sure that's high on his list, but at least it would make me happy for him.
This was a relay of an mlb.com report.
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This was a relay of an mlb.com report.
OK, so that makes them the Drudge Report then, right?
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expect the Phillies to try.
my friend: "he needs to shut up."
Thanks for sharing this info Jim. Not asking you to answer this question, but I wonder what Philly would be willing to part with to get Roy? The Astros offense sure could use someone like Jayson Werth.
ETA: Hell, throw in Gunther for the add on of Kendrick, and I can't see either party saying NO! Of cource, I'm not a GM either. So what do I know.
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It means that it's all bluster and bullshit with the muscle behind it to jam it down so many throats that the lazy majority will accept it as plausible and true. The Nats? Come on.
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Thanks for sharing this info Jim. Not asking you to answer this question, but I wonder what Philly would be willing to part with to get Roy? The Astros offense sure could use someone like Jayson Werth.
where would he play in the field? He's also in the last year of a 2-year $10 mill contract. No thanks. I'd start the discussions with young pitching, although I'm not sure what Philly has left on the farm after the last 2 years. Probably no way they'd hand over Happ, but I might ask the question.
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Thanks for sharing this info Jim. Not asking you to answer this question, but I wonder what Philly would be willing to part with to get Roy? The Astros offense sure could use someone like Jayson Werth.
Werth is a FA. But any deal would start with Domonic Brown and Phillippe Aumont.
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It means that it's all bluster and bullshit with the muscle behind it to jam it down so many throats that the lazy majority will accept it as plausible and true. The Nats? Come on.
So, ESPN is the media. Got it.
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So, ESPN is the media. Got it.
Noooooo, ESPN is the Media Goliath with a more obvious agenda than its competitors - in this case, it's something like It's The Truth Because We Say It Is. The Media is not a single entity, nor does it have an inherent agenda.
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It means that it's all bluster and bullshit with the muscle behind it to jam it down so many throats that the lazy majority will accept it as plausible and true. The Nats? Come on.
You don't think the Nats are interested in Oswalt? I agree they probably aren't on the top of Oswalt's list, but I have no doubt they are trying to improve the team.
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You don't think the Nats are interested in Oswalt? I agree they probably aren't on the top of Oswalt's list, but I have no doubt they are trying to improve the team.
They can be as interested as they want to be, but since they are in no way 'contenders' or on what most guesses would have as Oswalt's short list, I'd say it isn't worthy of crawl space on a broadcast. It's meaningless.
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They can be as interested as they want to be, but since they are in no way 'contenders' or on what most guesses would have as Oswalt's short list, I'd say it isn't worthy of crawl space on a broadcast. It's meaningless.
They also have all the midsummer splash they need in the form of the best major league pitcher to have never pitched an inning in the major leagues, Strasburg. He's lined up to fill the void left on ESPN by Brett Favre in case he decides to retire.
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They also have all the midsummer splash they need in the form of the best major league pitcher to have never pitched an inning in the major leagues, Strasburg. He's lined up to fill the void left on ESPN by Brett Favre in case he decides to retire.
And his fourth minor league start, coming today, was another part of their crawl that ran endlessly last night. Somebody's got a friend in Bristol.
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Thanks for sharing this info Jim. Not asking you to answer this question, but I wonder what Philly would be willing to part with to get Roy? The Astros offense sure could use someone like Jayson Werth.
ETA: Hell, throw in Gunther for the add on of Kendrick, and I can't see either party saying NO! Of cource, I'm not a GM either. So what do I know.
he did not say, and i did not ask. my inference was they have the players but are not sure they have the money. that was the ultimate reason they traded Lee.
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You don't think the Nats are interested in Oswalt? I agree they probably aren't on the top of Oswalt's list, but I have no doubt they are trying to improve the team.
See this is the issue (for me, anyway). Oswalt has a no trade clause. He can talk all he wants about doing something that is good for him and the Astros, but he's only going to waive that clause for the team(s) he wants to go to. There's no way he thinks he's getting to the World Series with the Nationals.
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he did not say, and i did not ask. my inference was they have the players but are not sure they have the money. that was the ultimate reason they traded Lee.
Dang. I wouldn't mind seeing him as a Phillie and they ought to be able to put together a decent package for him.
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See this is the issue (for me, anyway). Oswalt has a no trade clause. He can talk all he wants about doing something that is good for him and the Astros, but he's only going to waive that clause for the team(s) he wants to go to. There's no way he thinks he's getting to the World Series with the Nationals.
That's right. It COULD work out to be a win-win, but there are a lot of restrictions on it that will make that difficult as hell.
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If St. Louis is interested, then it's automatic that the Phillies are interested.
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he did not say, and i did not ask. my inference was they have the players but are not sure they have the money. that was the ultimate reason they traded Lee.
Understood. My question was more just thinking out loud. I know the Phils have a RF in the minors that makes Werth expendable, but he appears to be in AA. Their AAA club is filled mostly with players pushing 30 and haven't seen much MLB time.
Also, on the money issue, duly noted. Again, I was day dreaming about possible returns. Werth and Kendrick would be a great package for Oswalt and Thunder Pants.
And Noe, let's sure as hell hope they are both in the mix!
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That's right. It COULD work out to be a win-win, but there are a lot of restrictions on it that will make that difficult as hell.
I don't think so, just my opinion of course, but contenders are not that hard to pick out: St. Louis, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay and New York Yankees. The rest need to prove themselves a little. So you can create a market/bidding war between all four teams easily. And yes, you get serious about trading him to the Cardinals. It's how it has to be, you can't make the Phillies think you're not serious about a St. Louis deal.
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I don't think so, just my opinion of course, but contenders are not that hard to pick out: St. Louis, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay and New York Yankees. The rest need to prove themselves a little. So you can create a market/bidding war between all four teams easily. And yes, you get serious about trading him to the Cardinals. It's how it has to be, you can't make the Phillies think you're not serious about a St. Louis deal.
It's certainly an opportunity for Wade and Drayton to do something explosively positive. I hope they do.
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Understood. My question was more just thinking out loud. I know the Phils have a RF in the minors that makes Werth expendable, but he appears to be in AA. Their AAA club is filled mostly with players pushing 30 and haven't seen much MLB time.
Also, on the money issue, duly noted. Again, I was day dreaming about possible returns. Werth and Kendrick would be a great package for Oswalt and Thunder Pants.
And Noe, let's sure as hell hope they are both in the mix!
St. Louis for sure. It's where Oswalt wants to go and he would approve a deal right away. Like today even. And St. Louis has to be interested in having a starting rotation of Carpenter, Wainwright, Oswalt and Penny (with Lohse as the fifth starter). That would make them the prohibited favorite not only this year, but next year as well. The Yankees, Phillies would not sit still and let that happen, they'd come running to make an offer too. Tampa Bay not so much, I understand they are cash strapped. But then again, if Houston would eat some salary, then definitely count Tampa Bay in.
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I don't think so, just my opinion of course, but contenders are not that hard to pick out: St. Louis, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay and New York Yankees. The rest need to prove themselves a little. So you can create a market/bidding war between all four teams easily. And yes, you get serious about trading him to the Cardinals. It's how it has to be, you can't make the Phillies think you're not serious about a St. Louis deal.
I know people will rant about "trading within the division" as if it's some holy writ, but to me it actually makes sense: let them have Oswalt for the two years that we're not going to be competitive anyway, but skim the cream off the top of their farm system, so that when we're competitive again, they're scrambling to find talent.
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I know people will rant about "trading within the division" as if it's some holy writ, but to me it actually makes sense: let them have Oswalt for the two years that we're not going to be competitive anyway, but skim the cream off the top of their farm system, so that when we're competitive again, they're scrambling to find talent.
I agree.
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I know people will rant about "trading within the division" as if it's some holy writ, but to me it actually makes sense: let them have Oswalt for the two years that we're not going to be competitive anyway, but skim the cream off the top of their farm system, so that when we're competitive again, they're scrambling to find talent.
That's gonna have to be one charming motherfucking pig.
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I know people will rant about "trading within the division" as if it's some holy writ, but to me it actually makes sense: let them have Oswalt for the two years that we're not going to be competitive anyway, but skim the cream off the top of their farm system, so that when we're competitive again, they're scrambling to find talent.
From what I understand, STL's farm system is in worse shape than ours.
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From what I understand, STL's farm system is in worse shape than ours.
A minor stumbling block.
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From what I understand, STL's farm system is in worse shape than ours.
That's the other half of the trading equation. The other team has to have something you want. I can't see the Cards competing for Oswalt.
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From what I understand, STL's farm system is in worse shape than ours.
that's impossible. Houston has the worst farm system in the history of farm systems. Ed Wade is an idiot. Drayton McLane is cheap, and (most recently...thanks chuck) the Astros are a joke of a franchise.
Doomed.
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That's the other half of the trading equation. The other team has to have something you want. I can't see the Cards competing for Oswalt.
I have been assured by Cardinal fans that they would be more than willing to swap Kyle Lohse for Oswalt, provided the Astros pay most of Oswalt's salary this year and next. Furthermore, I've been reminded that the Astros would be stupid for not jumping all over this deal. BFIB.
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That's the other half of the trading equation. The other team has to have something you want. I can't see the Cards competing for Oswalt.
Menage a trois, then?
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Menage a trois, then?
The Jakes are still going to have to give up something to someone to make the deal worthwhile for the Astros. If the cupboard is bare...
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From what I understand, STL's farm system is in worse shape than ours.
Minus the high-ceiling RF in AA, I didn't see much in Philly's system either.
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Menage a trois, then?
Dunno about that. But, straight up trade, assuming Oswalt wants to go to a playoff contender as of right now, if I'm Wade my list is:
1)Rays
2)and everyone else.
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I have been assured by Cardinal fans that they would be more than willing to swap Kyle Lohse for Oswalt, provided the Astros pay most of Oswalt's salary this year and next. Furthermore, I've been reminded that the Astros would be stupid for not jumping all over this deal. BFIB.
I know I made a joke of this before, but if they have an arm-to-be-named-later somewhere deep on the farm, and they take Lee's fat ass and salary too...
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Minus the high-ceiling RF in AA, I didn't see much in Philly's system either.
Mariners gave them 3 pretty good guys in the Lee deal.
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Just a quick note...it is my understanding that ATL doesn't have anywhere close to the kind of money to land Oswalt. They practically gave away Vasquez to the Yankees to dump cash. I realize he stinking up Yankee stadium now but he was one of the best pitchers in baseball last year.
On top of that, Braves need a bat, and if they had the money I'd expect they'd be asking for Berkman, not Oswalt.
I deal involving Lee for Kawakami might not be all that bad for either team. Crazy? Maybe, but I'm taking my shot.
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I deal involving Lee for Kawakami might not be all that bad for either team. Crazy? Maybe, but I'm taking my shot.
If your shot was at being perceived as barking...success!
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I have been assured by Cardinal fans that they would be more than willing to swap Kyle Lohse for Oswalt, provided the Astros pay most of Oswalt's salary this year and next. Furthermore, I've been reminded that the Astros would be stupid for not jumping all over this deal. BFIB.
This seems almost too good to be true – what's the catch?
-Neal Huntington
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Rosenthal's imaginary conversation between Wade and McLane (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Roy-Oswalt-market-speculation-052410).
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Rosenthal's imaginary conversation between Wade and McLane (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Roy-Oswalt-market-speculation-052410).
That was neither trite nor predictable.
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Mariners gave them 3 pretty good guys in the Lee deal.
Roger that...
right-hander Phillippe Aumont - AA
outfielder Tyson Gillies - AA
right-hander Juan Ramirez - High A
I'm not sure any of them are "major league ready". Then again, that''s not what Philly needed. Philly needs a piece or two in the next two seasons. They will need more over the long haul. I suspect that's where those three slot. Just going on what I've read. Specifically, that none even hint at seeing major league time this season. The first two might be in consideration next year, but only if a need exists.
Dominic Brown is the AA player who had the outstanding ST. Again, all based on what I read. He seems like something special and unlikely the Phillies package him in any deal.
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I have been assured by Cardinal fans that they would be more than willing to swap Kyle Lohse for Oswalt, provided the Astros pay most of Oswalt's salary this year and next. Furthermore, I've been reminded that the Astros would be stupid for not jumping all over this deal. BFIB.
Those idiots probably thought Lost was quality television, too.
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Those idiots probably thought Lost was quality television, too.
I don't know about that, but they also once informed me that the reason David Eckstein had to play SS was because he didn't have the arm to play 2B. BFiB.
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Those idiots probably thought Lost was quality television, too.
Too soon, man. I'm still reeling.
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Those idiots probably thought Lost was quality television, too.
Or that Fox News is actually fair or balanced.
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Fox News' agenda isn't to be fair and balanced, it's to make money. The same is true of CNN or MSNBC or most of the others. Fox happens to be a lot better at it than the others, they went out and created a whole new universe of customers that can't get their product anywhere else. CNN and the others are still working with an old model.
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CNN and the others are still working with an old model.
Wait, I thought Sarah was on Fox....
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If this is going to be the dedicated "Roy trade rumors/news/innuendo" thread, then can we keep it to that?
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that's impossible. Houston has the worst farm system in the history of farm systems. Ed Wade is an idiot. Drayton McLane is cheap, and (most recently...thanks chuck) the Astros are a joke of a franchise.
There are franchises who demonstrate their interest in winning and there are franchises who refuse to sign draft picks and for years elect not to maintain a serious presence in the Dominican. But hey, they have Glen Barker roaming around Asia. That has to count for something.
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There are franchises who demonstrate their interest in winning and there are franchises who refuse to sign draft picks and for years elect not to maintain a serious presence in the Dominican. But hey, they have Glen Barker roaming around Asia. That has to count for something.
So you're saying the Astros are heading in the right direction in Asia and the Dominican?
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Fox News' agenda isn't to be fair and balanced, it's to make money. The same is true of CNN or MSNBC or most of the others. Fox happens to be a lot better at it than the others, they went out and created a whole new universe of customers that can't get their product anywhere else. CNN and the others are still working with an old model.
Somehow the whole "Fox happens to be a lot better at it...." goes out the window the minute Joy Behar's show revs up on CNN.
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If this is going to be the dedicated "Roy trade rumors/news/innuendo" thread, then can we keep it to that?
See 'cats, herding.'
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Somehow the whole "Fox happens to be a lot better at it...." the minute Joy Behar's show revs up on CNN.
I like watching Fox News with the sound turned down. They have the best news models.
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I like watching Fox News with the sound turned down. They have the best news models.
It's all part of the EE-vil plan...bwahahahahaaaaa...!
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You know, somehow the baseball GMs saw what happened last year when the New York Yankees added two quality pitchers to their team. They basically had little to no problem winning the World Series and they just may repeat for about, oh, two to three more years. So any AL or NL team that wants to compete against the Yankees better not ignore a chance to add Roy Oswalt to your staff. Even if it means you may have to give up some quality in return. It's either now or who knows when you'll get another opportunity like this to stand toe to toe with the Yanks and their pitching.
Everyone but the Rays probably should be lining up and ready to make their best offer. Houston does *NOT* have to trade Roy Oswalt, no matter how much he wants out. Not if it's pennys on the dollar. It's about a quality Ace-like pitcher saying he wants out and to go to a contender. It's about lining up and taking advantage of the situation and making your club not just good or a contender, but the favorite above the Yankees. It's about this season (and possibly next year) to win a championship if you're one arm away from being the best team in baseball... bar none.
So all those teams who want to monkey around with offers such as Kyle Lohse and you pay Oswalt's salary are just going to have to get used to getting the phone hung up on them and then watch the Yankees or Rays and the Phillies return to the World Series while everyone else struggles in the playoffs.
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See 'cats, herding.'
Yeah, silly me somehow thinking that a thread related to relevant Astros information could avoid turning into another ridiculous political'esque back and forth. Total bullshit.
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Yeah, silly me somehow thinking that a thread related to relevant Astros information could avoid turning into another ridiculous political'esque back and forth. Total bullshit.
It wobbles, but it stays upright.
And I wasn't interjecting politics, I started out grumbling about ESPN and thought I took a couple of shots on my remark so I attempted to clarify a bit.
Back to your regularly scheduled guesses on this week's episode of 'As The Ace Cries.'
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Everyone but the Rays probably should be lining up and ready to make their best offer.
I'm glad you included this caveat. That Rays rotation is incredible. I honestly don't think they add anything with Oswalt.
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There are franchises who demonstrate their interest in winning and there are franchises who refuse to sign draft picks and for years elect not to maintain a serious presence in the Dominican. But hey, they have Glen Barker roaming around Asia. That has to count for something.
Everything you're talking about is valid, and also in the past. I suppose the proof is in the pudding, but the draft issues coincided with Purpura being in charge of the draft (including Hunsicker's last year or two.) And the Dominican presence was somewhat mitigated by the Venezuelan Academy. Either way, both issues have been rectified.
Of course, McLane's two of three biggest failings are those you listed. And they've come home to roost, so to speak.
Still, the Astros are around the middle of the pack when it comes to franchise health.
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Still, the Astros are around the middle of the pack when it comes to franchise health.
Oh, I beg to differ. Are they looking in the right direction? I think so. But the number of teams worse off are a definite minority:
CLE, KC, PIT, maybe TOR and BAL.
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So you're saying the Astros are heading in the right direction in Asia and the Dominican?
Whether it's the right direction or not -- they're getting there fast!
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I'm glad you included this caveat. That Rays rotation is incredible. I honestly don't think they add anything with Oswalt.
Yeah, but they certainly can make the Yankees stand up and listen if rumors fly that the Rays are kicking tires. And if Wade gets them to give names they might consider, then the Yankees will come running. The Rays *don't* have to make a trade, but they certainly can kick tires and force other teams to consider it. As is right now, the Rays only problem that I can see is lack of power hitters. If they add one at the trading deadline, they will be as good if not better than the Yankees. They can go toe-to-toe with the Yanks. The problem, as I understand it, is that the Rays suffer from salary limitations, so they have to spend wisely. If they wanted cash from a trading partner to help the trade, then they're going to have to give up really quality prospects.
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If only Steve Phillips were GM for the Natinals...
I almost just drove off the road. Steve Phillips just said he'd trade Strasburg for Oswalt straight up. Wow. Random Twitter LINK (http://twitter.com/GaryArmidaFCP/status/14645007434)
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If only Steve Phillips were GM for the Natinals...
I almost just drove off the road. Steve Phillips just said he'd trade Strasburg for Oswalt straight up. Wow. Random Twitter LINK (http://twitter.com/GaryArmidaFCP/status/14645007434)
Ok, so now we probably have the outer edge of the Realm of Possibility nailed down. It's just a matter of walking it back in from there.
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If only Steve Phillips were GM for the Natinals...
I almost just drove off the road. Steve Phillips just said he'd trade Strasburg for Oswalt straight up. Wow. Random Twitter LINK (http://twitter.com/GaryArmidaFCP/status/14645007434)
Clearly Phillips has swapped one addiction for another.
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If only Steve Phillips were GM for the Natinals...
I almost just drove off the road. Steve Phillips just said he'd trade Strasburg for Oswalt straight up. Wow. Random Twitter LINK (http://twitter.com/GaryArmidaFCP/status/14645007434)
is there a petition to get steve phillips hired as the gm of any team in baseball other than houston? if so, please point me in that direction, so that i may sign it.
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If only Steve Phillips were GM for the Natinals... LINK (http://twitter.com/GaryArmidaFCP/status/14645007434)
I almost just drove off the road. Steve Phillips just said he'd trade Strasburg for Oswalt straight up. Wow.
One problem I'm having is how undervalued Roy Oswalt is by some. As if they've never seen him pitch. This guy is not too far off the same guy who stuffed the Cardinals in game 6 of the 2005 NLCS. That night, several Co-ard hitters told each other on the bench "We're not going to beat this guy". Oswalt's problems since those days seem to be tied to health issue (nagging back and groin injuries) that have been for the most part been rectified. And if he really has mastered his changeup, then he's going to be damn good for someone.
Does that mean he's better than Strasburg? Who knows, probably not. But this is not a trade for Kyle Lohse to be your #4 pitcher... that much is true. You want a 1a and 1b rotation like the Cardinals, Rays, Phils (when Cole Hamels is on his game) and Yankees? Add Oswalt to your team. You want to be better than the Cardinals, Phils and Yankees (and probably equal to the Rays)? Add Roy Oswalt to your team. That's the key, you're not trying to get even with the contenders, you're trying to lap them!
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If only Steve Phillips were GM for the Natinals...
I almost just drove off the road. Steve Phillips just said he'd trade Strasburg for Oswalt straight up. Wow. Random Twitter LINK (http://twitter.com/GaryArmidaFCP/status/14645007434)
I actually get the thinking.
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I actually get the thinking.
When the Cubs had Mark Prior, no one ever thought that Prior would ever fizzle out. He was destined to be the next Walter Johnson and take the Cubs to their first and many more World Series and then punch his ticket to the Hall of Fame. Not that Strasburg is destined for injury, no one knows that, but you have to know what you're doing to make yourself a contender and sometimes you trust the kids and sometimes you don't.
The year the Marlins won it all, they had a AA pitcher named Dontrelle Willis take the league by storm. But the leading arm on that squad was Josh Beckett with added help from Penny and Pavano. Strasburgh should be treated as a help for the Nationals, not the savior arm right now. Not unless you want to grind him into the ground early in his career.
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I actually get the thinking.
Please, explain it to me, because I don't understand why Washington would mortgage their future to try for a wild card birth.
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Please, explain it to me, because I don't understand why Washington would mortgage their future to try for a wild card birth.
I don't think it's about a straight-up deal. I think it is about "who would you rather have on your squad to help you win a World Series this season if you're the Nationals?" My answer: I dunno, but to protect Strassburgh, I'd go with Oswalt.
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Oh, I beg to differ. Are they looking in the right direction? I think so. But the number of teams worse off are a definite minority:
CLE, KC, PIT, maybe TOR and BAL.
Bottom of the middle of the pack?
I'd personally add Seattle, Colorado and Arizona to that list, but point taken.
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When the Cubs had Mark Prior, no one ever thought that Prior would ever fizzle out. He was destined to be the next Walter Johnson and take the Cubs to their first and many more World Series and then punch his ticket to the Hall of Fame. Not that Strasburg is destined for injury, no one knows that, but you have to know what you're doing to make yourself a contender and sometimes you trust the kids and sometimes you don't.
The year the Marlins won it all, they had a AA pitcher named Dontrelle Willis take the league by storm. But the leading arm on that squad was Josh Beckett with added help from Penny and Pavano. Strasburgh should be treated as a help for the Nationals, not the savior arm right now. Not unless you want to grind him into the ground early in his career.
a few years ago i recall scanning through some old tapes looking for something (i can't remember what) when i came upon an old sportscenter. the lead story was the highly anticipated big league debut of, get ready for it, mega prospect cj nitkowski.
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As is right now, the Rays only problem that I can see is lack of power hitters. If they add one at the trading deadline, they will be as good if not better than the Yankees. They can go toe-to-toe with the Yanks. The problem, as I understand it, is that the Rays suffer from salary limitations, so they have to spend wisely.
Gunther Pants hits for power. I promise.
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Noe, I hope your optimistic scenario of a bidding war plays out. I have no sense of the market, but a complicating factor is that Oswalt's perceived ability is probably at a peak right now and Wade might want to act sooner than later. That would hinder the cultivation of a prolonged bidding war.
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Bottom of the middle of the pack?
I'd personally add Seattle, Colorado and Arizona to that list, but point taken.
I cannot think of any way that Colorado is worse off than the Astros. Good young team.
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Noe, I hope your optimistic scenario of a bidding war plays out. I have no sense of the market, but a complicating factor is that Oswalt's perceived ability is probably at a peak right now and Wade might want to act sooner than later. That would hinder the cultivation of a prolonged bidding war.
Just trying to figure out how this can happen for the positive for the Astros. Any deal has to be a win-win, not a fire sale situation (that I can tell) nor a "i'm getting ready to sell the team or I'm in a messy divorce, get rid of huge salaries" situation either. If the worse case is the Astros decide to keep Oswalt for two more years, then that is not bad either.
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Please, explain it to me, because I don't understand why Washington would mortgage their future to try for a wild card birth.
Phillips is operating under the "go for it all now because tomorrow may never get here" view. Going for a chance at a ring right now with a known high-end pitcher over a pitcher with no mlb experience. For all any of us know Strasburg could go Ankiel PDQ.
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Just trying to figure out how this can happen for the positive for the Astros. Any deal has to be a win-win, not a fire sale situation (that I can tell) nor a "i'm getting ready to sell the team, get rid of huge salaries" situation either. If the worse case is the Astros decide to keep Oswalt for two more years, then that is not bad either.
See, I don't think firesale, but I think that McLane is actively trying to sell the team. Why he's trying to do it in a shit economy is beyond me, but my calculator doesn't go that high.
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Phillips is operating under the "go for it all now because tomorrow may never get here" view.
Thank thinking landed him on ESPN.
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Thank thinking landed him on ESPN.
I didn't say he was right, just that I understood.
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See, I don't think firesale, but I think that McLane is actively trying to sell the team. Why he's trying to do it in a shit economy is beyond me, but my calculator doesn't go that high.
I don't get the vibe of firesale either. Even if he's selling the club (which he may be doing actively), he (McLane) is still about the turnstiles and right now they're not turning. McLane is about giving the fans what they want and until fans boo Oswalt (*cue next game maybe*?), then McLane won't do anything. But this situation smacks of McLane understanding "re-build" for the first time in like... EVER! McLane has often said he will elicit advice from his players, like Bagwell and Biggio, Berkman and Oswalt. Until this situation, I doubt any of them said "we need to rebuild" to McLane. To their credit, most of the time they were right, including Berkman and Oswalt. But now, both Berkman and Oswalt seem to be talking "rebuild" to McLane and others.
And now McLane is listening. But he won't give Oswalt away either. I think he'll just keep Roy around and ask Wade to find another way to get a better product on the field.
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Gunther Pants hits for power. I promise.
So does Berkman. Ooohhhh...
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So does Berkman. Ooohhhh...
What I was thinking. Especially with Pena not hitting much for the Rays.
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So does Berkman. Ooohhhh...
The funny thing is, I was wondering this morning whether WAS would consider Oswalt AND Berkman for Strasburg. My thinking was that the combo might (1) realistically put them in the playoffs and (2) make enough of a splash to offset the PR loss of Strasburg. And yet I still concluded no.
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I also think the Oswalt for Strasburg is fantasy, but don't the Nationals have the first pick again, with baseball's Lebron sitting there with Boras as his agent? That is a lot of cash invested in two players who aren't even in the bigs. That is long-term constraining for non big market clubs.
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What I was thinking. Especially with Pena not hitting much for the Rays.
Two words: D. H. (rest those knees for hitting only)
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Two words: D. H. (rest those knees for hitting only)
Yep and then if Pena does start hitting, which there is a good chance of, then the Rays are REALLY in business.
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I also think the Oswalt for Strasburg is fantasy, but don't the Nationals have the first pick again, with baseball's Lebron sitting there with Boras as his agent? That is a lot of cash invested in two players who aren't even in the bigs. That is long-term constraining for non big market clubs.
If only the MLB would allow trading players for draft picks! (BTW - isn't the kid a catcher? Maybe I'm misremembering).
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Yep and then if Pena does start hitting, which there is a good chance of, then the Rays are REALLY in business.
Yup. Texiera isn't going to stay in a funk all season either, so the battle betwix the Yankees and Rays would become classics with the BoSox playing spoiler throughout. Would make for one damn interesting race in the AL East and then a face-off in the ALCS when both get that far (similar to the 2004 and 2005 Co-ard and Astros playoff runs).
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If only the MLB would allow trading players for draft picks! (BTW - isn't the kid a catcher? Maybe I'm misremembering).
yes, it would certainly make everything more interesting. He is/or was both a catcher and pitcher, but it sounds like an everyday position is his future.
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The funny thing is, I was wondering this morning whether WAS would consider Oswalt AND Berkman for Strasburg. My thinking was that the combo might (1) realistically put them in the playoffs and (2) make enough of a splash to offset the PR loss of Strasburg. And yet I still concluded no.
I kept hoping that Berkman would turn it on and start swirling some Smoak for Berkman rumors. But that isn't going to happen either
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Okay... I got it. Oswalt, Pence, and Bogusevic for Crawford and Zobrist.
If I'm going to dream, I'm dreaming big.
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Okay... I got it. Oswalt, Pence, and Bogusevic for Crawford and Zobrist.
If I'm going to dream, I'm dreaming big.
Quick...find a way to get Aubrey Huff back and then swap him straight up for Zobrist!
Which reminds me of something else Cardinal fans have told me...Zobrist was really glad that the Astros traded him because he's such a huge Cardinal fan, he didn't think he could play for the Astros in good conscience. He'd have a real moral dilema on his hands if asked to do anything to beat the Cardinals. BFiB.
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Quick...find a way to get Aubrey Huff back and then swap him straight up for Zobrist!
Which reminds me of something else Cardinal fans have told me...Zobrist was really glad that the Astros traded him because he's such a huge Cardinal fan, he didn't think he could play for the Astros in good conscience. He'd have a real moral dilema on his hands if asked to do anything to beat the Cardinals. BFiB.
Card Fan (http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/f/f/get_a_brain_morans.jpg)
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Okay... I got it. Oswalt, Pence, and Bogusevic for Crawford and Zobrist.
If I'm going to dream, I'm dreaming big.
Carl Crawford is a free agent next year. All the more reason to jettison either Oswalt or Berkman's salary, you can go get a young Carl for your team. Carlos Lee is perhaps the most unmoveable player in terms of... well, everything... but in terms of trading him, even more so. An outfield of Crawford, Bourn and Bogusevic might be very sweet to consider for a few years (with Yordany Ramirez as the fifth outfielder as well). Lee is working his way towards an expensive bench player as it were (might inspire him to ask for a trade too).
With that sort of move next offseason, you can be looking at a lineup primarily made up of Bourn, Crawford, Castro, Johnson and Bogusevic, with the latter three trying to adjust to the majors. I'd rather they make the move now to get the latter three some major league PT and then next year have a really nice *young* team.
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Carl Crawford is a free agent next year. All the more reason to jettison either Oswalt or Berkman's salary, you can go get a young Carl for your team. Carlos Lee is perhaps the most unmoveable player in terms of... well, everything... but in terms of trading him, even more so. An outfield of Crawford, Bourn and Bogusevic might be very sweet to consider for a few years (with Yordany Ramirez as the fifth outfielder as well). Lee is working his way towards an expensive bench player as it were (might inspire him to ask for a trade too).
With that sort of move next offseason, you can be looking at a lineup primarily made up of Bourn, Crawford, Castro, Johnson and Bogusevic, with the latter three trying to adjust to the majors. I'd rather they make the move now to get the latter three some major league PT and then next year have a really nice *young* team.
If you want some of what I'm drinking, just say so. Glad to share!!!
(that was to note my own doubt that Tampa trades Crawford. I'm aware they have a stud in AAA, waiting for Crawford to depart via FA. But that's a huge subtraction for a team that's hoping to win the AL East to get another shot at a WS. I'm not sure displacing one of their solid starters, for Oswalt, helps them more than losing Crawford would hurt. )
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If you want some of what I'm drinking, just say so. Glad to share!!!
(that was to note my own doubt that Tampa trades Crawford. I'm aware they have a stud in AAA, waiting for Crawford to depart via FA. But that's a huge subtraction for a team that's hoping to win the AL East to get another shot at a WS. I'm not sure displacing one of their solid starters, for Oswalt, helps them more than losing Crawford would hurt. )
I'm inclined to think that Crawford wants to test the free agent market this winter and wants to get paid, like rap video paid. Don't think he'd sign a hometown discount prior to testing the market. Just my sense from hearing about his training regimen this past off-season.
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If you want some of what I'm drinking, just say so. Glad to share!!!
(that was to note my own doubt that Tampa trades Crawford. I'm aware they have a stud in AAA, waiting for Crawford to depart via FA. But that's a huge subtraction for a team that's hoping to win the AL East to get another shot at a WS. I'm not sure displacing one of their solid starters, for Oswalt, helps them more than losing Crawford would hurt. )
I think Noe was saying get rid of cash now via trade and try to sign Crawford as a free agent. Obviously the Rays aren't going to trade Crawford in a trade designed to improve their chances to win this year.
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I think Noe was saying get rid of cash now via trade and try to sign Crawford as a free agent. Obviously the Rays aren't going to trade Crawford in a trade designed to improve their chances to win this year.
Thanks. That occurred to me after I posted my sarcastic response. I'll go back to my drinkin...
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I'm inclined to think that Crawford wants to test the free agent market this winter and wants to get paid, like rap video paid. Don't think he'd sign a hometown discount prior to testing the market. Just my sense from hearing about his training regimen this past off-season.
I know that hometown discount means a lot, especially to McLane. But if exhibit A of hometown discount discount is Carlos Lee (100 meeleon dollars), then Houston can obtain Carl Crawford just as easily as anyone else. Just saying.
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I know that hometown discount means a lot, especially to McLane. But if exhibit A of hometown discount discount is Carlos Lee (100 meeleon dollars), then Houston can obtain Carl Crawford just as easily as anyone else. Just saying.
I didnt know Lee was a native Houstonian.
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I didnt know Lee was a native Houstonian.
Please refer to the "native/adopted/ranch/injured/other discounts" portion of your Houston FA Buying Guide.
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Please refer to the "native/adopted/ranch/injured/other discounts" portion of your Houston FA Buying Guide.
What the hell do I know? I was born in Charleston SC, though I have been here since I was 1.
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Things just got interesting in St. Louis:
Kyle Lohse Needs Surgery on Arm (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100527&content_id=10490218&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl)
Of course, as any BBFiB would know, trading for Oswalt would be a step down from Lohse, but juneberno.
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Things just got interesting in St. Louis:
Kyle Lohse Needs Surgery on Arm (http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100527&content_id=10490218&vkey=news_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl)
Of course, as any BBFiB would know, trading for Oswalt would be a step down from Lohse, but juneberno.
I heard that on the Brewers broadcast.
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I heard that on the Brewers broadcast.
Saw it on the ESPN news crawl during lunch.
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After the game last night, did Roy say something along the lines of "I told y'all I had to go out and throw a shutout just to have a chance at winning"?
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Norris is expected to miss his Saturday start.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7025019.html
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Jayson Stark weighs in (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100527) with an anonymous source that sounds an awful lot like Gerry:
Has he ever traded a veteran player?" asked one longtime baseball man who has done a lot of business with McLane. "Go back and look. He'll move payroll. But he's never been a guy who told his public, 'We're not going to win, so we're going to clean house.' He's always felt that portrays the wrong kind of image."
But when asked whether he could see McLane authorizing the Astros to eat some of that money so they could get more talent back in a deal, the same baseball man replied: "I can only speak from historical perspective. He's never, ever done that."
and, different source:
I honestly see no market for him," said the club official quoted above. "Maybe the Angels. But the Yankees have five starters they like. The Red Sox have five starters they like. I don't see him going to the Mets. The Cardinals aren't looking for starting pitching. The Dodgers have no money. So a lot can change in two months, but I honestly don't see a market."
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Jayson Stark weighs in (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100527)
and, different source:
I honestly see no market for him," said the club official quoted above. "Maybe the Angels. But the Yankees have five starters they like. The Red Sox have five starters they like. I don't see him going to the Mets. The Cardinals aren't looking for starting pitching. The Dodgers have no money. So a lot can change in two months, but I honestly don't see a market."
The end of May market is a different market than the end of July market. So to say right now there's no market for Oswalt doesn't make much sense to me.
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The end of May market is a different market than the end of July market. So to say right now there's no market for Oswalt doesn't make much sense to me.
Unless you're attempting to deal for him, in which case, you hope there's no competition for him.
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The end of May market is a different market than the end of July market. So to say right now there's no market for Oswalt doesn't make much sense to me.
I think it's accurate. Hence why you make a market instead of waiting for the market to dictate to you his value. It's a game of chicken in a way, but all you need is one solid rumor that, say, the Rays are in on Oswalt. Here comes the Yankees and Boston, with a few others calling. Or a rumor that the Cardinals are interested, all of a sudden, you're going to get some keen interest from Philly and maybe a few other NL teams. Kyle Lohse being a mystery now puts a new spin on things too.
So all in all, a "market for him" is a correct statement. A market that Ed Wade can create for him is entirely different. BTW - Wade talked a little about trading Oswalt yesterday and his basic gist is that with so many teams not knowing right now what they need, a trade is difficult to pull off. All teams are waiting to see what they need right around the trading deadline and probably not sooner. Makes trading Oswalt right now almost impossible. He feels he'll know who his trading partners will be (if any) in the future but not right now.
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I think it's accurate. Hence why you make a market instead of waiting for the market to dictate to you his value. It's a game of chicken in a way, but all you need is one solid rumor that, say, the Rays are in on Oswalt. Here comes the Yankees and Boston, with a few others calling. Or a rumor that the Cardinals are interested, all of a sudden, you're going to get some keen interest from Philly and maybe a few other NL teams. Kyle Lohse being a mystery now puts a new spin on things too.
So all in all, a "market for him" is a correct statement. A market that Ed Wade can create for him is entirely different. BTW - Wade talked a little about trading Oswalt yesterday and his basic gist is that with so many teams not knowing right now what they need, a trade is difficult to pull off. All teams are waiting to see what they need right around the trading deadline and probably not sooner. Makes trading Oswalt right now almost impossible. He feels he'll know who his trading partners will be (if any) in the future but not right now.
And there's still the issue of Oswalts willingness towards the teams involved. The Blue Jays making an incredible offer in the world doesn't do anyone any good.
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The timing right now is just real bad. They've supposedly been contacted by the Dodgers and Ryan (Rangers) suggesting there is possible interest later on. In order for the Rangers to have interest, you have to wait till late June to July for the sale to complete. In order for the Dodgers to have interest, you have to burn more of his 2010 salary (given the current team salary agreement between the spouses) or offer money which Drayton has already nixed. (Which makes sense since you'd have a hard time selling a team that owes money for players that aren't on the roster).
Not to mention, the pitching is thin at Round Rock. Maybe after mid-season, Lyles and Arguello might be ready for AAA, causing a surplus there. Hopefully landing even more SPs via whatever trade can be made.
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I think it's accurate. Hence why you make a market instead of waiting for the market to dictate to you his value. It's a game of chicken in a way, but all you need is one solid rumor that, say, the Rays are in on Oswalt. Here comes the Yankees and Boston, with a few others calling. Or a rumor that the Cardinals are interested, all of a sudden, you're going to get some keen interest from Philly and maybe a few other NL teams. Kyle Lohse being a mystery now puts a new spin on things too.
So all in all, a "market for him" is a correct statement. A market that Ed Wade can create for him is entirely different. BTW - Wade talked a little about trading Oswalt yesterday and his basic gist is that with so many teams not knowing right now what they need, a trade is difficult to pull off. All teams are waiting to see what they need right around the trading deadline and probably not sooner. Makes trading Oswalt right now almost impossible. He feels he'll know who his trading partners will be (if any) in the future but not right now.
My take was that the source was projecting forward to the end of the deadline. No market. If a GM doesn't buy the case Ed's making about other teams' interest then Ed spins his wheels. I don't believe you can sit here today and say there will be no market through the end of July. I believe Ed will be able to sell a bill of goods to other teams in July.
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I believe Ed will be able to sell a bill of goods to other teams in July.
Not to beat a dead horse (or kick a man when he's down), but this is a key difference between Wade and Purpura. I realize the comical writers are obliged to take cheap shots at wade. But so far, I have no reason to dislike the job Wade has done as GM. Hell, his moves make perfect sense given the owner/pres of business operations and the team/system that came with the job.
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I hope the part about Drayton's unwillingness to eat some of the salary is not true. Eating salary to get legit prospects beats dumping salary for a whole bunch of nothing. If they are going to trade money for mediocrity, keep him. It's the difference between sacrificing the present for a brighter future versus giving up on both the present and future.
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I hope the part about Drayton's unwillingness to eat some of the salary is not true. Eating salary to get legit prospects beats dumping salary for a whole bunch of nothing. If they are going to trade money for mediocrity, keep him. It's the difference between sacrificing the present for a brighter future versus giving up on both the present and future.
One caveat to that, if they'll take Lee with Oswalt, I'd see that as a win/win. Clearing 32mil in payroll is not a sacrifice of the future. That would let them go after a big FA (such as Crawford or even Cliff Lee) and come out neutral on money. The key is finding someone who wants to come to Houston and is willing to be part of a youth over-haul. It's been stated before, but at some point they have to cut bait on this season. That will allow them to promote Chris Johnson, and maybe others, to see exactly what they have and, subsequently, what they will need during the offseason.
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One caveat to that, if they'll take Lee with Oswalt, I'd see that as a win/win. Clearing 32mil in payroll is not a sacrifice of the future. That would let them go after a big FA (such as Crawford or even Cliff Lee) and come out neutral on money. The key is finding someone who wants to come to Houston and is willing to be part of a youth over-haul. It's been stated before, but at some point they have to cut bait on this season. That will allow them to promote Chris Johnson, and maybe others, to see exactly what they have and, subsequently, what they will need during the offseason.
It sounds like there are two mindsets. One which believes that every year, a team should be constructed to be the best it can be, regardless of the effect on the future. The other mindset is that the team won't be that competitive in the near future and all present moves are made for the years ahead.
Under the first mindset, one might trade Oswalt for other vets, or dump his salary in hopes of signing another free agent, but this runs counter to the second mindset.
If they are wedded to the first, why trade Oswalt? If they are going to embrace the second, commit to it, which might entail eating signficant chunks of his salary in order to obtain future value.
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It sounds like there are two mindsets. One which believes that every year, a team should be constructed to be the best it can be, regardless of the effect on the future. The other mindset is that the team won't be that competitive in the near future and all present moves are made for the years ahead.
Under the first mindset, one might trade Oswalt for other vets, or dump his salary in hopes of signing another free agent, but this runs counter to the second mindset.
If they are wedded to the first, why trade Oswalt? If they are going to embrace the second, commit to it, which might entail eating signficant chunks of his salary in order to obtain future value.
I understand what you are saying. I'm simply speculating on the direction McLane will dictate for his franchise. As the man said, check his history. He simply doesn't re-build. Ever. 17 yrs is quite a bit of evidence.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to them doing a full re-build of the team, actually I have no preference either way. I'm simply guessing at what they might do, and to what extent. My honest opionion is that Lee is untradeable at this point. Whether he's pressing to prove his worth to the Astros mgmt or he's mailing it in to kill any possible trade interest, I can't say. At this point, it's irrelevant. It is what it is. This could spawn off an entirely different topic. But the one thought I can't escape is if Lee is done, physically, the Astros will not be competitive for the duration of his contract, if not longer.
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One caveat to that, if they'll take Lee with Oswalt, I'd see that as a win/win. Clearing 32mil in payroll is not a sacrifice of the future. That would let them go after a big FA (such as Crawford or even Cliff Lee) and come out neutral on money. The key is finding someone who wants to come to Houston and is willing to be part of a youth over-haul. It's been stated before, but at some point they have to cut bait on this season. That will allow them to promote Chris Johnson, and maybe others, to see exactly what they have and, subsequently, what they will need during the offseason.
While I love the idea of Crawford in Houston, I can't help but think... "That is how we got into this mess, signing big $$ players and losing top draft picks along with it."
The team needs to keep on the path toward rebuilding. The reality is that it started when Wade came in and had his first draft. Rebuilding doesn't always happen at the ML level. It starts first in the minors and having good drafts. If you give up 1st and 2nd round picks to sign FAs you better be in a position to make a run at the ML level or you are just prolonging the rebuilding process. Dragging it out far longer than is required to comlpete.
So the Astros need to say NO to all top FAs until they are just that one player or two away from making their next run. Trading away Lee, Oswalt, Berkman or whom ever can speed up the process by adding more talent to your minor league system outside of the draft. You should NOT be looking at signing anything more than journeyman or short term vets to help the process along. People like Blum are ideal, because they can both be a bench player and a good mentor for how to play the game the right way.
If you want the Astros to be good again, given their current situation, you have to let them fill from within (and likely struggle along the way) until you find some cornerstone players who you acquire via trade or come up through your system (or both). Remember the Astros got good not from FAs signed, but from building from within (Biggio, Bagwell, Oswalt, etc.).
Wishing or hoping they could have done this WHILE they were still winning thus allowing them to continue the legacy is a moot point now.
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Wishing or hoping they could have done this WHILE they were still winning thus allowing them to continue the legacy is a moot point now.
Just don't tell the braying nimrods who gorvel The Hun's schlong about the guys Gerry took at the top of the draft from, oh, 1999-2004. For all the criticism the brass gets for a thin farm system, virtually none of it touches Gerry Hunsicker.
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Just don't tell the braying nimrods who gorvel The Hun's schlong about the guys Gerry took at the top of the draft from, oh, 1999-2004. For all the criticism the brass gets for a thin farm system, virtually none of it touches Gerry Hunsicker.
Hunsicker made mistakes, especially towards the end of his tenure, but he was also operating under the financial constraints of an owner who clearly didn't understand the draft, or player development or anything that didn't sell hot dogs *that* season.
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Drew Sharp weighs in on the Tigers interest on Roy:
http://www.freep.com/article/20100530/COL08/5300430/1354/SPORTS/Oswalts-worth-the-risk-for-Tigers
it makes sense with Willis' DFA and Scherzer's demotion. not sure what the Tigers have that would interest the Wade and Heck.
i know the Granderson and Edwin Jackson deals replenished things a bit.
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I doubt that Roy would consider Detroit, but more suitors is always good.
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I doubt that Roy would consider Detroit
Homes are sold by the dozen
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Not to beat a dead horse (or kick a man when he's down), but this is a key difference between Wade and Purpura. I realize the comical writers are obliged to take cheap shots at wade. But so far, I have no reason to dislike the job Wade has done as GM. Hell, his moves make perfect sense given the owner/pres of business operations and the team/system that came with the job.
I think Wade is doing a nice job. The mess he inherited is not his fault. But I hate that he signs average to bad players to free agent deals.
I'm talking about Pedro Feliz and Kaz Matsui. Why sign them? We weren't close to winning anything without them. Why not play a cheap rookie and spend the money on draft picks?
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Homes are sold by the dozen
And Roy DOES own a bullbozer...
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BP today speculates that with the Kendry Morales injury, the Angels could try for a blockbuster to get both Oswalt and Berkman.
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BP today speculates that with the Kendry Morales injury, the Angels could try for a blockbuster to get both Oswalt and Berkman.
Sold. A couple of days ago when some national people were saying that there simply isn't a market for Oswalt I was thinking that if there are five teams to which Roy might accept a trade there is no way in hell there are going to be 25 healthy starting pitchers among them between now and the end of July. Hell, the Angels can't even keep a first baseman healthy.
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Sold. A couple of days ago when some national people were saying that there simply isn't a market for Oswalt I was thinking that if there are five teams to which Roy might accept a trade there is no way in hell there are going to be 25 healthy starting pitchers among them between now and the end of July. Hell, the Angels can't even keep a first baseman healthy.
The Astros almost lost an even more valuable piece in similar fashion:
Astros general manager Ed Wade, reflecting on the injury to Morales, says right-hander Roy Oswalt had his own scary moment while celebrating a walkoff homer by Carlos Lee on May 5. Oswalt, Wade says, was standing behind pitcher Bud Norris as the Astros prepared to greet Lee. Norris reared back as Lee crossed the plate and caught Oswalt’s thumb. Oswalt, walking back to the clubhouse, told pitching coach Brad Arnsberg that he thought his thumb was broken. It wasn’t, but Oswalt was sore for some time afterward.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/kendry-morales-injury-not-only-los-angeles-angels-problem-053110
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I think Wade is doing a nice job. The mess he inherited is not his fault. But I hate that he signs average to bad players to free agent deals.
I'm talking about Pedro Feliz and Kaz Matsui. Why sign them? We weren't close to winning anything without them. Why not play a cheap rookie and spend the money on draft picks?
For me, that assumes Wade has full discretion. No owner, or more specifically President of Business Operations, chiming in on the baseball operations. That said, i also can't argue that having CJ in the majors was the right thing to do either.
Where I will join in questioning the GM is when they require an over-whelming and irrefutable argument before benching one of those marginal FA's. Keppinger was showing signs of being a better 2B option last year, yet Kaz got most of the starts. And why Navarro was called up instead of giving Johnson a couple starts is beyond me. The clock is already ticking on him and all indications are they are going to burn an option year this year. But that is also me on the outside, arm-chair quarter-backing folks who do this for a living.
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BP today speculates that with the Kendry Morales injury, the Angels could try for a blockbuster to get both Oswalt and Berkman.
I would love to see it, but aren't Berkman and Oswalt owed something like $40 million for the rest of this year and the next? Wouldn't the Astros have to pick up a big chunk of that? Assuming that the parties could make the money work, what players would the Angels be willing to give in return?
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I would love to see it, but aren't Berkman and Oswalt owed something like $40 million for the rest of this year and the next? Wouldn't the Astros have to pick up a big chunk of that? Assuming that the parties could make the money work, what players would the Angels be willing to give in return?
It's BP, man! I'm sure there are a half-dozen MWAR guys in the Angels organization that will help the Astros make the playoffs next year!
BP reminds me a lot of those outfits that sell Secrets of Predicting Lottery Results or some such. Bill James must have some odd feelings about being Frankenstein.
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Sold. A couple of days ago when some national people were saying that there simply isn't a market for Oswalt I was thinking that if there are five teams to which Roy might accept a trade there is no way in hell there are going to be 25 healthy starting pitchers among them between now and the end of July. Hell, the Angels can't even keep a first baseman healthy.
The fact that the Atlanta Braves are 1) red-hot right now, 2) the Phillies are not, and 3) the NL East is becoming the closest race in all of the MLB, then you'd assume that a market value for Oswalt in one of his preferred teams is a very good fit right now. Imagine this, Bobby Cox going out with one more World Series ring, also Chipper Jones. Oswalt joins Lowe, Hanson, Hudson to make a feared rotation. Basically, he and his Bravo mates can become the same version of the 2008 St. Louis Cardinals team that won it all because of pitching.
I think the market is shaping up, not down when it comes to Oswalt.
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BP today speculates that with the Kendry Morales injury, the Angels could try for a blockbuster to get both Oswalt and Berkman.
One thing I like about this speculation is that this sort of bold move would make the Angels one of the better teams in the AL, not just the West where everyone expects the Rangers to run away with it. If the Angels are serious about this sort of bold move, then the Rangers would be very concerned and of course so might be the Rays, Yankees, Red Sox and Twins. Oswalt would replace the departed Lackey, Berkman the broken leg Morales. And with Scocia preaching NL ball, this would be a good fit for the duo too (not to mention days off for Berkman from being on the field and hitting as the DH on occasion).
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I also like the general idea, in that Berkman and Oswalt both might be more likely to accept a trade if it were a package deal.
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I also like the general idea, in that Berkman and Oswalt both might be more likely to accept a trade if it were a package deal.
Not disagreeing necessarily, but quotes recently would seem to indicate that they aren't all buddy-buddy.
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One thing I like about this speculation is that this sort of bold move would make the Angels one of the better teams in the AL, not just the West where everyone expects the Rangers to run away with it. If the Angels are serious about this sort of bold move, then the Rangers would be very concerned and of course so might be the Rays, Yankees, Red Sox and Twins. Oswalt would replace the departed Lackey, Berkman the broken leg Morales. And with Scocia preaching NL ball, this would be a good fit for the duo too (not to mention days off for Berkman from being on the field and hitting as the DH on occasion).
I liked one scenario that had Berkman and Oswalt going to the Giants for Cain, Bumgarner, and 2-3 position prospects. It was just posted on a blog somewhere, so it was at least as credible as Richard Justice.
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I liked one scenario that had Berkman and Oswalt going to the Giants for Cain, Bumgarner, and 2-3 position prospects. It was just posted on a blog somewhere, so it was at least as credible as Richard Justice.
If it came from a pixie panda it would be MORE credible than big dick Justice.
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One thing I like about this speculation is that this sort of bold move would make the Angels one of the better teams in the AL, not just the West where everyone expects the Rangers to run away with it. If the Angels are serious about this sort of bold move, then the Rangers would be very concerned and of course so might be the Rays, Yankees, Red Sox and Twins. Oswalt would replace the departed Lackey, Berkman the broken leg Morales. And with Scocia preaching NL ball, this would be a good fit for the duo too (not to mention days off for Berkman from being on the field and hitting as the DH on occasion).
The Angels do not like the idea of losing the division to anyone, especially the Rangers. They've had a strong grip on it for years with higher aspirations and Moreno isn't one to shy away from bold moves when he's got a pretty heavily stocked farm system.
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I liked one scenario that had Berkman and Oswalt going to the Giants for Cain, Bumgarner, and 2-3 position prospects. It was just posted on a blog somewhere, so it was at least as credible as Richard Justice.
On a side note: The Freak isn't looking like the all-world pitcher he's purported to be. In fact, he looks downright average lately. Even on Opening Day, I thought the guy threw well, but not dominating or anything close to that. I can see teams knocking him around for four runs per game easily. Oh and it's funny to me that when a team like the Jints swears they will not bring up their young phenom catcher (Posey) because he needs the grooming in AAA. It only took a few weeks after they said that to 1) bring him up and 2) put him on first base. Posey, by the way, was drafted the same year as Castro.
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The Angels do not like the idea of losing the division to anyone, especially the Rangers. They've had a strong grip on it for years with higher aspirations and Moreno isn't one to shy away from bold moves when he's got a pretty heavily stocked farm system.
This is how markets are created.
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Not disagreeing necessarily, but quotes recently would seem to indicate that they aren't all buddy-buddy.
Not from a buddy-buddy perspective; from the perspective that any team going after both would HAVE to be a contender.
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The Angels do not like the idea of losing the division to anyone, especially the Rangers. They've had a strong grip on it for years with higher aspirations and Moreno isn't one to shy away from bold moves when he's got a pretty heavily stocked farm system.
The Angels are probably more willing than usual to unload some prospects right now as they have 5 of the top 40 picks in next week's draft
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I would love to see it, but aren't Berkman and Oswalt owed something like $40 million for the rest of this year and the next?
Berkman makes $14.5M this season with a $15M club option for 2011 ($2M buyout). Oswalt makes $15M this season. $16M in 2011 and has a $16M club option for 2012 ($2M buyout). Presuming neither options are picked up, $40M is a good rough estimate on what it would cost 'em over the next 2 years ($22M'ish, inc. Berkman buyout, for Berkman and Roy this season and $18M, inc. Oswalt buyout, for Roy 2011).
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The Angels are probably more willing than usual to unload some prospects right now as they have 5 of the top 40 picks in next week's draft
Berkman's gonna have to pick it up a bit though to get them past their love affair with Paul Konerko.
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MLBTR saying that Roy would consider a trade to the Natinals. LINK (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/06/oswalt-would-consider-a-trade-to-washington.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MlbTradeRumors+(MLB+Trade+Rumors))
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Sorry if Cabrera already picked his 3 teams...
Yahoo rumors that Roy has limited it to 3 teams: Phillies, Yanks, Jakes.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Astros-Oswalt-targets-three-teams?urn=mlb,245080 (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Astros-Oswalt-targets-three-teams?urn=mlb,245080)
Hope this isn't actually tied to Roy or his camp, because otherwise he's a giant turd. The market is aware of your availability, now let the GMs do their work and allow the Astros to manage the perception. Thanks for reminding us that it is all about you, Roy.
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Sorry if Cabrera already picked his 3 teams...
Yahoo rumors that Roy has limited it to 3 teams: Phillies, Yanks, Jakes.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Astros-Oswalt-targets-three-teams?urn=mlb,245080 (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Astros-Oswalt-targets-three-teams?urn=mlb,245080)
Hope this isn't actually tied to Roy or his camp, because otherwise he's a giant turd. The market is aware of your availability, now let the GMs do their work and allow the Astros to manage the perception. Thanks for reminding us that it is all about you, Roy.
"because otherwise he's a giant turd"
and has been for quite some time
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Not disagreeing necessarily, but quotes recently would seem to indicate that they aren't all buddy-buddy.
Berkman with a backhanded swipe at Roy with his compliment of Myers:
"He has a perfect attitude for what you're looking for in a pitcher. If he loses 2-1 win, he's always blaming himself and takes responsibility. He's a competitor and not scared to throw the ball over the plate. I just think he's a great addition to this team."
Tag's Lines (http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/06/astros-get-big-win-and-berkman-loves-myers.html)
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Berkman with a backhanded swipe at Roy with his compliment of Myers:
"He has a perfect attitude for what you're looking for in a pitcher. If he loses 2-1 win, he's always blaming himself and takes responsibility. He's a competitor and not scared to throw the ball over the plate. I just think he's a great addition to this team."
Tag's Lines (http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/06/astros-get-big-win-and-berkman-loves-myers.html)
that's what i thought, too. especially the second comment.
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Sorry if Cabrera already picked his 3 teams...
Yahoo rumors that Roy has limited it to 3 teams: Phillies, Yanks, Jakes.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Astros-Oswalt-targets-three-teams?urn=mlb,245080 (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Astros-Oswalt-targets-three-teams?urn=mlb,245080)
Hope this isn't actually tied to Roy or his camp, because otherwise he's a giant turd. The market is aware of your availability, now let the GMs do their work and allow the Astros to manage the perception. Thanks for reminding us that it is all about you, Roy.
That wouldn't jive with his quotes about being willing to play for Washington, though. Perhaps, he was just being polite in the interview, but that's quite a drop from Phillies-Yanks-Cards to Nationals. The Yahoo rumor and the Washington Post article can't both be right.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2010/06/roy_oswalt_would_accept_trade.html
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That wouldn't jive with his quotes about being willing to play for Washington, though. Perhaps, he was just being polite in the interview, but that's quite a drop from Phillies-Yanks-Cards to Nationals. The Yahoo rumor and the Washington Post article can't both be right.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/nationalsjournal/2010/06/roy_oswalt_would_accept_trade.html
Footer tweeted yesterday that Roy said he'd go "anywhere" to contend.
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Sorry if Cabrera already picked his 3 teams...
Yahoo rumors that Roy has limited it to 3 teams: Phillies, Yanks, Jakes.
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Astros-Oswalt-targets-three-teams?urn=mlb,245080 (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/rumors/post/Astros-Oswalt-targets-three-teams?urn=mlb,245080)
Hope this isn't actually tied to Roy or his camp, because otherwise he's a giant turd. The market is aware of your availability, now let the GMs do their work and allow the Astros to manage the perception. Thanks for reminding us that it is all about you, Roy.
Go to the aol fanhouse article linked in that yahoo article and here's the quote: "• An official from another team said word going around is that Roy Oswalt would approve a trade only to the Phillies, Yankees or Cardinals."
Rumors of rumors suddenly become fact.
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Footer tweeted yesterday that Roy said he'd go "anywhere" to contend.
Good. Go to Hell and 'contend' with the heat.
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Berkman with a backhanded swipe at Roy with his compliment of Myers:
"He has a perfect attitude for what you're looking for in a pitcher. If he loses 2-1 win, he's always blaming himself and takes responsibility. He's a competitor and not scared to throw the ball over the plate. I just think he's a great addition to this team."
Tag's Lines (http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/06/astros-get-big-win-and-berkman-loves-myers.html)
It would have been cool if Cabrera had posted this link on the front page (http://www.spikesnstars.com/2010/06/02/so-you-want-to-be-a-natinal-eh-roy-o/)...
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Good. Go to Hell and 'contend' with the heat.
well played, sir
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It would have been cool if Cabrera had posted this link on the front page (http://www.spikesnstars.com/2010/06/02/so-you-want-to-be-a-natinal-eh-roy-o/)...
If Cabrera is now a front page, he'll never be mentioned again.
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Cliff Lee went in the offseason, 1 year remaining, for 3 minor leaguers, all highly regarded.
Roy Halladay went in the offseason, and then renegotiated, for 3 of the Phillies' top 5 minor leaguers.
Jake Peavy went midseason for 4 players, 3 of them high-level pitchers.
and the last time Wade dealt an ace:
Schilling went for Omar Daal, Nelson Figueroa, Travis Lee, and Vicente Padilla (yikes!)
And all three of those recent trades could end up smelling just as bad as the Schilling deal. Even if the fear of seeing Roy on a potential post-season opponent generates the hot market that Noe describes, these "move your proven stud(s) for a bucket of highly regarded prospects" deals are always a crap shoot. Regardless of the GM pulling the trigger, the majority of the HRPs fail to approach the potential that's seen at the time of the deal.
Woodward was villified when he traded the Big Unit for Garcia, Guillen, and Halama, but the return on that trade ended up way above the average for these sorts of deals.
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Woodward was villified when he traded the Big Unit for Garcia, Guillen, and Halama, but the return on that trade ended up way above the average for these sorts of deals.
Cleveland also did well when they traded Bartolo Colon to Montreal for Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Brandon Phillips.
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Bartolo Colon to Montreal for Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Brandon Phillips.
I swear to god I just started salivating when I read this.
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I swear to god I just started salivating when I read this.
Somewhere, Bartolo is salivating right now too.
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Somewhere, Bartolo is salivating right now too.
Nice (http://www.liveturd.com/images/simpsons_alien.gif).
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From Stan McNeal article about deadline trade candidates:
If a club comes calling for Carlos Lee, however, it could have him for his contract. Lee is due $18.5 million a year through 2012 and, according to a scout, "looks like he doesn't even care." (I will second that opinion. In an early season game at Busch Stadium, Lee strolled into the Astros' clubhouse about 10 minutes before stretching -- long after the rest of his teammates already had dressed).
http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/article/2010-06-02/trade-talk-10-players-likely-be-moved-deadline
He also speculates Oswalt will fetch a couple front line prospects.
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"Every time he goes out there," said one scout, "he's basically telling you, 'I'm finished here.' He's frustrated, and he's making it very obvious to everyone."
Opposing scout on Roy (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100604)
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Opposing scout on Roy (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100604)
that may be my friend. he told me almost the same thing a couple of weeks ago, including "his body language is terrible."
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Lastings Millege v 2.0: Rosenthal Link (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/diamondbacks-have-problems-everywhere)
The Mets are so high on rookie infielder Ruben Tejada, their fill-in second baseman for the injured Luis Castillo, that they'd be reluctant to include him in a trade for a pitcher such as Astros right-hander Roy Oswalt.
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Lastings Millege v 2.0: Rosenthal Link (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/diamondbacks-have-problems-everywhere)
The Mets are so high on rookie infielder Ruben Tejada, their fill-in second baseman for the injured Luis Castillo, that they'd be reluctant to include him in a trade for a pitcher such as Astros right-hander Roy Oswalt.
Tejada's a fantastic infielder who can definitely play short too.
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From Olney's PPB:
Heard this: There are no ongoing Roy Oswalt trade talks.
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Footer (via Twitter):
NY media surrounding Roy, asking about trade request. Obviously they're trying to figure out if he wants Yankees. Roy taking high road. Roy's keeping it general. Wants to play for contender, focus now is helping Astros win, trade would help both him and Astros,blah blah blah. Roy says he doesn't care which league he pitches in. Admits he'd like to see how he'd do in AL, seeing everyone thinks it's harder than NL. Tomorrows headlines, of course, will scream OSWALT LOVES NY, WANTS YANKS, MISSES PETITTE. So prepare yourselves now.
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I'm more concerned this recent "success"the team has had will convinced drayton to hold 'em.
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Just remind Drayton that this is still the same team, minus Matsui, that has had 2 8-game losing streaks this season.
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Just remind Drayton that this is still the same team, minus Matsui, that has had 2 8-game losing streaks this season.
Yeah, but not counting those aberrations they're 25-21. That amounts to a competitive winning percentage in the perpetually weak NL central. And don't forget that this team's stars are the same who took them to the World Series in 2005. And Pedro Feliz is a reliable 80 RBI man. This is a championship-level team. And while I'm in this fantasy land, can I get an Altoids blowjob from Scarlett Johansson while riding a unicorn?
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And while I'm in this fantasy land, can I get an Altoids blowjob from Scarlett Johansson while riding a unicorn?
I'll be in my bunk.
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Yeah, but not counting those aberrations they're 25-21. That amounts to a competitive winning percentage in the perpetually weak NL central. And don't forget that this team's stars are the same who took them to the World Series in 2005. And Pedro Feliz is a reliable 80 RBI man. This is a championship-level team. And while I'm in this fantasy land, can I get an Altoids blowjob from Scarlett Johansson while riding a unicorn?
Can we get some fan art?
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And while I'm in this fantasy land, can I get an Altoids blowjob from Scarlett Johansson while riding a unicorn?
Curiously Strong.
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if one had to pick, what would you choose to take lesser prospects in return for the salary relief, or assume more financial responsibility and get a higher pedigree of talent in return? it's not my money, but to me it seems to be more about restocking the farm system, so if i had to assume some of financial responsibility i'd do that.
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if one had to pick, what would you choose to take lesser prospects in return for the salary relief, or assume more financial responsibility and get a higher pedigree of talent in return? it's not my money, but to me it seems to be more about restocking the farm system, so if i had to assume some of financial responsibility i'd do that.
If the difference between getting one serious prospect or two is picking up, say, 50% of Roy's salary for the next two years, I'd pick up the salary. Of course, my definition of "serious" is somebody who has shown seriously above-league-average performance at AA. So I may be completely unreasonable.
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And while I'm in this fantasy land, can I get an Altoids blowjob from Scarlett Johansson while riding a unicorn?
Even Charley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5im0Ssyyus) wants to believe.
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Roy to be a stRanger? LINK (http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/the-rangers-are-working-hard-to-get-roy-oswalt.html.php)
A major league source is telling me that the Rangers have been talking to the Astros about Roy Oswalt and that the teams are "getting closer" to having a deal in place. It's not yet clear which player(s) would be coming back from Texas to Houston, but my understanding is that the live bodies part of the deal is more or less agreed to.
But in place is not the same thing as done: the sticking point: the Rangers are trying to convince Major League Baseball -- who holds the purse strings until the sale of the Rangers is complete -- to allow them to take on Oswalt's salary.
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Roy to be a stRanger? LINK (http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/the-rangers-are-working-hard-to-get-roy-oswalt.html.php)
A major league source is telling me that the Rangers have been talking to the Astros about Roy Oswalt and that the teams are "getting closer" to having a deal in place. It's not yet clear which player(s) would be coming back from Texas to Houston, but my understanding is that the live bodies part of the deal is more or less agreed to.
But in place is not the same thing as done: the sticking point: the Rangers are trying to convince Major League Baseball -- who holds the purse strings until the sale of the Rangers is complete -- to allow them to take on Oswalt's salary.
Thank God. The near-conclusion of conference realignment has left me needing something to frantically follow misleading rumors on.
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Thank God. The near-conclusion of conference realignment has left me needing something to frantically follow misleading rumors on.
How bout this one then:
BREAKING NEWS: BIG12 sources claim BIG10 sources are actually SEC sources in disguise.
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Olney hears (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/16177387583) there's nothing to the report. I'm stunned.
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Olney hears (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/16177387583) there's nothing to the report. I'm stunned.
right...because ESPN never poaches a story and then takes credit for the discovery.
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How bout this one then:
BREAKING NEWS: BIG12 sources claim BIG10 sources are actually SEC sources in disguise.
Brilliant...I imagine the disguise to be something like this (http://zembla.cementhorizon.com/archives/swerski.jpg)
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Brilliant...I imagine the disguise to be something like this (http://zembla.cementhorizon.com/archives/swerski.jpg)
This is probably closer to the truth. (http://nationalsreview.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/bobbyvalentinemoustache.jpg)
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This is probably closer to the truth. (http://nationalsreview.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/bobbyvalentinemoustache.jpg)
That's one of those rare things that for some strange reason just never gets less funny over time.
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That's one of those rare things that for some strange reason just never gets less funny over time.
The tape mustache kills me every time I see it.
I can't help but laugh, despite how much of a moron I think Bobby Valentine is.
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The tape mustache kills me every time I see it.
I can't help but laugh, despite how much of a moron I think Bobby Valentine is.
Bobby Valentine? No, no, monsieur. Zat is Bubby Valenzuela.
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This is probably closer to the truth. (http://nationalsreview.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/bobbyvalentinemoustache.jpg)
Why oh why has no one gone with this (http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2008/01/28/va1237288862312/Borat-Supplied-5862946.jpg)? Do I have to do all the easy lifting around here?
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Why oh why has no one gone with this (http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2008/01/28/va1237288862312/Borat-Supplied-5862946.jpg)? Do I have to do all the easy lifting around here?
Forget the BBQ. I'm not hungry anymore. I think I'm gonna be sick.
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Forget the BBQ. I'm not hungry anymore. I think I'm gonna be sick.
Jews in ball slings ain't doin' it for ya?
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Jews in ball slings ain't doin' it for ya?
Just be sure you grab 'em by the horns.
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Jews in ball slings ain't doin' it for ya?
We can't all be like you Alkie.
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We can't all be like you Alkie.
Especially not the women folk.
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We can't all be like you Alkie.
Are you suggesting I'm the incredibly attractive person in that picture or that I'm the person who would find that person incredibly attractive?
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Are you suggesting I'm the incredibly attractive person in that picture or that I'm the person who would find that person incredibly attractive?
Yes.
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Are you suggesting I'm the incredibly attractive person in that picture or that I'm the person who would find that person incredibly attractive?
I think he's suggesting you like good socks.
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Evidently something happened in the Rangers' bankruptcy proceeding today that makes any trade unlikely.
According to OlneyTweet: The judge's decision today on the Rangers' creditors is viewed by execs in baseball as a big blow to the team's efforts to trade pre-Aug. 1. 1 club exec said: "The Rangers can forget about Roy Oswalt, and maybe just about any other major player." Rivals don't want them spending dollars at a time when they owe MLB a lot of money.
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With all the Roy-to-the-Rangers trade rumors swirling lately, I've become distracted at times by the possibility of this going down and have wondered what the Astros might get in return. My curiosity led me to various Rangers forums like Baseball Time in Arlington, LonestarBall, and the Newberg Report. If I've learned anything from my sojourns north up the internet I-45, it is this: Rangers fans are just as pompously idiotic as the fuckheads posting on certain Astros forums.
Where a large segment of the Astros fanbase is relentlessly pessimistic about the State of the Farm, an equivalent segment exists in stRangerville that is completely and totally enamored with their farm system. They are convinced that 19-yr-old LHP Martin Perez (5.67 ERA in the Texas League) and relief pitcher Tanner Scheppers are basically untouchable prospects whose futures are studded with diamonds and unicorns. In their world Jon Daniels would be a goddamned fool for including either one or both of them in any package for Roy Oswalt because Roy Oswalt is 32 and due a lot of money for the remaining two years on his contract. (Even though the club could opt out of the final year for 2 mm). Most of them want Cliff Lee and predictably think that Oswalt can be had for two or three B- prospects because he's not anywhere close to Lee's caliber of pitcher. They say Roy is an NL pitcher whose production is destined to decline in the hitterific AL, even though his career interleague numbers do not support that argument. They say he's an aging pitcher with a significant injury risk, even though he's pitched an average of 222 innings over the course of his career and has never suffered a major injury and is notorious for ratcheting up his game in the second-half of the season. They say he is not anywhere close to Lee.
What. the. fuck.
Cliff Lee is a very good pitcher, but so is Roy Oswalt. We're talking about a playoff-tested starting pitcher (and NLCS MVP) with a career 3.22 ERA, fourth-best among active starters, and he's somehow worth a package of non-elite prospects because he's due some big money over the next two seasons? You have gotta be shitting me.
Sure, the Rangers could go after Lee, but trading for him is trading for a half-season rental because he will command huge money on the open market and almost certainly will sign elsewhere next year. Trading for Oswalt, on the other hand, may be costly in both dollars and prospects, but the likelihood of a return on the investment is greater imo because he'd give the franchise two chances to make a run at the World Series. If I'm a Ranger fan, I make that trade every day of the week. These opportunities don't present themselves very often. Remember, we're talking about a team and a fanbase that has experienced exactly ZERO playoff series wins. In fact, the Rangers have won a grand total of ONE playoff game in franchise history.
If there is any fanbase that should understand, it's Rangers fans.
Then again, they're Dallasites.
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Evidently something happened in the Rangers' bankruptcy proceeding today that makes any trade unlikely.
According to OlneyTweet: The judge's decision today on the Rangers' creditors is viewed by execs in baseball as a big blow to the team's efforts to trade pre-Aug. 1. 1 club exec said: "The Rangers can forget about Roy Oswalt, and maybe just about any other major player." Rivals don't want them spending dollars at a time when they owe MLB a lot of money.
From everything I read in the aftermath of the judge's ruling, Olney jumped the gun on that one. I doubt the ruling will prove to be anything more than a minor hiccup in the sale process.
Chuck Greenberg is already making a lot of noise (http://www.fanfeedr.com/mlb/2010/06/25/chuck-greenberg-says-rome-is-burning-will-ask-bankruptcy-judge-t) about the court expediting the process so the team can get on with its (trade deadline) business.
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Sure, the Rangers could go after Lee, but trading for him is trading for a half-season rental because he will command huge money on the open market and almost certainly will sign elsewhere next year. Trading for Oswalt, on the other hand, may be costly in both dollars and prospects, but the likelihood of a return on the investment is greater imo because he'd give the franchise two chances to make a run at the World Series. If I'm a Ranger fan, I make that trade every day of the week
The argument that somehow 0.5 seasons of Lee is better for a team than potentially 2.5 seasons of Oswalt is one that I continually hear raised, but understand the least (well that, and the seeming belief that he's injury prone or somehow not durable). And it's not just Ranger fans, but most of the 'in guys' in the national media (you know the guys, Astros suck, Wade is an idiot, McLane is a cheapskate...).
Dropping a butt-load of prospects for a half-season for Lee is a great idea ('cause, you know, he's Cliff Lee plus he will net a couple of extra picks in the 2011 draft), but doing so for 1.5 (potentially 2.5) seasons for Oswalt is crazy? And it's crazy because he's an injury risk and expensive (and oh yeah, he plays for Houston and the Astros suck and the Astros FO and owner are stupid, but that is all implied of course).
So let's talk about Roy being 'expensive.' Roy, though no longer among 'the most' elite pitchers in the game certainly remains 'an' elite pitcher. What exactly would he bring in the open market for a 1-year contract in 2011 (or even for a 2-year contract if you add the time a team could control him). $10M? No problem at all. $12M? Surely. $14M? Possibly. $16M? Doesn't seem real likely with the financial crunch teams claim they are in, but a weak maybe. How about 2 years, $24M? Seems pretty doable as well. So what, we're talking 'maybe' overpaying him $4M a year for 1-2 years, and that presumes a team wouldn't get any salary relief in the trade. If it gets you to the playoffs? BFD!
Sure, in the current baseball economy $16M (or potentially $32M) might sound like a lot, especially when a lot of teams are trying to cut salary, but go try to sign 'an' Oswalt on the open market for 1 year $15M. Not happening. Or try to sign an elite pitcher for 2 years, $30M. Not happening. So Oswalt may cost some more money and a couple more prospects. Again, BFD, you get him for potentially 2.5 years (and whether you keep him for that last year is entirely your choice). Put another way, you get '2nd half Roy' for 3 seasons. Like I said, the argument just does not make sense to me... [/rant]
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From everything I read in the aftermath of the judge's ruling, Olney jumped the gun on that one.
I know what the national media thinks the ruling says, but am not sold at all on their theories as to its meaning. My guess is whatever the opinion actually said, it really meant "the sides better come to an agreement, and do it expeditiously, because if you don't I am going to clean this crap up and no one is going to be real happy with my methods..."
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So let's talk about Roy being 'expensive.' Roy, though no longer among 'the most' elite pitchers in the game certainly remains 'an' elite pitcher. What exactly would he bring in the open market for a 1-year contract in 2011 (or even for a 2-year contract if you add the time a team could control him). $10M? No problem at all. $12M? Surely. $14M? Possibly. $16M? Doesn't seem real likely with the financial crunch teams claim they are in, but a weak maybe. How about 2 years, $24M? Seems pretty doable as well. So what, we're talking 'maybe' overpaying him $4M a year for 1-2 years, and that presumes a team wouldn't get any salary relief in the trade. If it gets you to the playoffs? BFD!
Sure, in the current baseball economy $16M (or potentially $32M) might sound like a lot, especially when a lot of teams are trying to cut salary, but go try to sign 'an' Oswalt on the open market for 1 year $15M. Not happening. Or try to sign an elite pitcher for 2 years, $30M. Not happening. So Oswalt may cost some more money and a couple more prospects. Again, BFD, you get him for potentially 2.5 years (and whether you keep him for that last year is entirely your choice). Put another way, you get '2nd half Roy' for 3 seasons. Like I said, the argument just does not make sense to me... [/rant]
I'm right there with ya, OSF. The argument makes little sense to me, either. I think the reason so many are quick to dismiss Roy's value on the mound is they're not taking the time to actually look at his career numbers against Cliff Lee's.
Here's a good example of this, courtesy of Jamey Newberg (http://www.newbergreport.com/article.asp?articleid=1888).
1. Sure, you’d get draft pick compensation a year later on Oswalt, but right now Lee is a solid Type A free agent while Oswalt is a Type B – if Oswalt stays in that territory over the next year and a half of baseball (will he really get better?), then he’s going to kick back a supplemental first when he leaves via free agency (purportedly to return to Houston), rather than the first-rounder plus supplemental first that Lee is sure to bring. So with Oswalt you’d get the compensation a year later – and probably a first-round pick less.
2. Lee is a better pitcher.
All that ignores another obvious point – that Lee makes $9 million in 2010, while Oswalt makes $15 million. That means Lee will earn $3 million over the final two months this season, and Oswalt $5 million.
That $2 million difference isn’t all that significant – if you were getting an equal or better pitcher, that is, which I don’t think Oswalt is.
Crazy talk. On what planet would Roy Oswalt not be a Type A free agent? On what planet is he not in the top 20% of starting pitchers? Aside from Tim Hudson, has there been a more underrated pitcher in baseball over the last ten years than Roy Oswalt?
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Crazy talk. On what planet would Roy Oswalt not be a Type A free agent? On what planet is he not in the top 20% of starting pitchers? Aside from Tim Hudson, has there been a more underrated pitcher in baseball over the last ten years than Roy Oswalt?
He would currently rank as a Type B, but he's not far off from reaching Type A status. If he finishes the season at his current pace and puts up roughly the same numbers next year, he'd certainly be a Type A.
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He would currently rank as a Type B, but he's not far off from reaching Type A status. If he finishes the season at his current pace and puts up roughly the same numbers next year, he'd certainly be a Type A.
How is he a Type B right now? Type A players are those who Elias ranks in the top 20% of their respective positions over a two-year period. If John Lackey was a Type A last year and Randy Wolf was a Type A, then Roy Freakin Oswalt is definitely a Type A.
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I'm right there with ya, OSF. The argument makes little sense to me, either. I think the reason so many are quick to dismiss Roy's value on the mound is they're not taking the time to actually look at his career numbers against Cliff Lee's.
Here's a good example of this, courtesy of Jamey Newberg (http://www.newbergreport.com/article.asp?articleid=1888).
Crazy talk. On what planet would Roy Oswalt not be a Type A free agent? On what planet is he not in the top 20% of starting pitchers? Aside from Tim Hudson, has there been a more underrated pitcher in baseball over the last ten years than Roy Oswalt?
did you mean to say overrated? that is what i think of him, at least in the last few years..
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I'd trade for Cliff Lee over Oswalt, but saying Oswalt is not going to be a good choice to make a trade for is stupid. What happens to a team who says to itself: No Oswalt... Lee or bust. Well, if someone else gets Lee, you're telling me you're going to low-ball an offer for Oswalt because you basically don't want him the way you want Lee?
That's stupid talking right there.
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How is he a Type B right now? Type A players are those who Elias ranks in the top 20% of their respective positions over a two-year period. If John Lackey was a Type A last year and Randy Wolf was a Type A, then Roy Freakin Oswalt is definitely a Type A.
Just going by the numbers. Starters are ranked by innings pitched, win-loss ratio, ERA, strikeouts, and a couple of other things. The lack of wins and relatively low strikeout total last season are holding him back at the moment.
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Just going by the numbers. Starters are ranked by innings pitched, win-loss ratio, ERA, strikeouts, and a couple of other things. The lack of wins and relatively low strikeout total last season are holding him back at the moment.
i'm going by Oswalt innings and failure to finish (not talking about complete games).
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So what exactly does a Federal Court Judge sound like when he's pissed off?
Your answer here (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7080308.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+houstonchronicle/spbb+(HoustonChronicle.com+--+Baseball)).
“You need to understand that this court will decide whether to approve this plan ... and will not decide based on what the fans want ... what the media wants ... what Mr. Nolan and Mr. Greenberg want ... or what (baseball commissioner) Bud Selig wants,” Lynn said. “If the plan fails to meet (a specific bankruptcy code), I will deny confirmation and we will be back to square one, and it will be on the head of those who supported this motion.” “For the sake of the Rangers, I do not want to see this team stuck in Chapter 11 until this fall,” Lynn said. “You guys — not me — you guys are the ones who pushed for this (July 9 hearing).”
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Jon Heyman, still an idiot (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/06/14/oswalt.lee/index.html?eref=sihp).
Cliff Lee and Roy Oswalt are very likely to be the two biggest stars among starting pitchers on the block this trading season. Lee, a 31-year-old lefty for the Mariners, and Oswalt, the Astros' 32-year-old righty, are two excellent and accomplished pitchers who are about the same age and carry the potential to be big difference-makers for someone else this season. For this summer at least, they are inextricably linked.
Except for one thing: Lee should have big value while Oswalt just might be worth close to nothing. That's not an insult to Oswalt, just the reality of the economics of the situation...
..."At the end of the day, I don't think Houston will be able to move the entire (Oswalt) contract and get premium players back,'' sums up one AL executive. That's an opinion that's fairly widely felt, too, based on interviews.
Any team acquiring Lee would only be on the hook for about $4-to-5 million, depending on when a trade is made. Meanwhile, Oswalt comes with about a $30 million commitment. Very few teams have $30 million lying around, and those that do generally don't want to spend it.
Heyman gets it wrong again. The total commitment owed to Oswalt is not 30 million, it's the remainder of his 2010 salary + 16 mill for 2011 + 2 mill buyout. The only way Oswalt would get all that money is if the team that controls him exercises the 2012 option. Presumably they would only do so if his 2011 performance justified it. So how is his trade value worth close to nothing?
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Just going by the numbers. Starters are ranked by innings pitched, win-loss ratio, ERA, strikeouts, and a couple of other things. The lack of wins and relatively low strikeout total last season are holding him back at the moment.
Ah, gotcha. If he were a free agent at the end of this season I can see how he'd fall just outside the Type A cut because of his 2009 performance, but I highly doubt he'd be anything but a Type A in the following offseason. My point was about Newberg's blithe dismissiveness ("will he really get better?") of Oswalt's value. If he'd typed baseballreference.com in his browser and then entered "Roy Oswalt" in the search function he'd see that Oswalt has never been anything but a Type A throughout his career.
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Because a) gullible dumbshit reporters buy in to b) the steaming load someone is spreading that drives his value down in the marketplace. We're one hot shit pitcher from a good team going down from this being stemmed.
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Jon Heyman, still an idiot (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/jon_heyman/06/14/oswalt.lee/index.html?eref=sihp).
So how is his trade value worth close to nothing?
So, if that *IS* the case, then why would the Astros trade him? If a team needs an ACE to make a playoff run, then they have to pay. End of story. By pay, they have to pay with prospects. Owner Drayton McLane already put out that depending on the prospects, then the Astros will listen to proposals to provide cash on the deal. Better damn well be good to great prospects for that to happen.
I really don't understand how a club in contention that could use an ACE will low ball the Astros. If I were Wade, I'd hang up on them until they want to talk seriously. I understand trading for Lee, it makes sense, but only *ONE* team can consummate a deal with Seattle. Oswalt is not sloppy seconds, he is quality option number two. Gotta pay if you want him, so it's really stupid to read these opinions about lack of prospects that will be offered for Roy.
"Pony up or go away, we'll keep him" should be Wade's mantra.
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So, if that *IS* the case, then why would the Astros trade him? If a team needs an ACE to make a playoff run, then they have to pay. End of story. By pay, they have to pay with prospects. Owner Drayton McLane already put out that depending on the prospects, then the Astros will listen to proposals to provide cash on the deal. Better damn well be good to great prospects for that to happen.
I really don't understand how a club in contention that could use an ACE will low ball the Astros. If I were Wade, I'd hang up on them until they want to talk seriously. I understand trading for Lee, it makes sense, but only *ONE* team can consummate a deal with Seattle. Oswalt is not sloppy seconds, he is quality option number two. Gotta pay if you want him, so it's really stupid to read these opinions about lack of prospects that will be offered for Roy.
"Pony up or go away, we'll keep him" should be Wade's mantra.
Yup. Many in the media and the blogs conveniently forget that the Astros actually have some leverage the M's don't--their trade bait is still under club control for the foreseeable future. The Astros can choose not to trade Oswalt before the deadline and trade him when they get their asking price.
I am amazed by the delusional responses I've read on Rangers forums. They reaaaaally reaallly reallly love their prospects, especially that Perez kid, so much so that they're putting the uncertainties that come with said prospects over the known quantity of a Roy Oswalt.
If I'm a fan of a contender that's in need of an ace starting pitcher, I trade those young unproven prospects every time if it gives my team a legitimate shot at a WS.
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Yup. Many in the media and the blogs conveniently forget that the Astros actually have some leverage the M's don't--their trade bait is still under club control for the foreseeable future. The Astros can choose not to trade Oswalt before the deadline and trade him when they get their asking price.
DING, DING, DING!
I am amazed by the delusional responses I've read on Rangers forums. They reaaaaally reaallly reallly love their prospects, especially that Perez kid, so much so that they're putting the uncertainties that come with said prospects over the known quantity of a Roy Oswalt.
So if Cliff Lee is traded to, say.... LA... do the Ranger fans then say "Oh well, they should stand pat". If so, they better think about this: Sabathia, Burnett, Hughes. Then think about their own foolishness. Championships are won by pitching and defense and just enough offense. Some people will never learn. Have fun repeating history stRangers!
If I'm a fan of a contender that's in need of an ace starting pitcher, I trade those young unproven prospects every time if it gives my team a legitimate shot at a WS.
And your shot at a WS is not something you can go for every year unless you spend like the Yankees. Right now, the way folks are talking about Roy Oswalt and the Astros, if I were the GM, I'd tell them all to go screw themselves and good luck in the playoffs... all in the same breath. One thing I don't understand... is Nolan Ryan in any way involved up there? If so, has he lost his mind?!?! Hey Nolan, teach those yahoos a little bit about baseball whydoncha!
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I am amazed by the delusional responses I've read on Rangers forums. They reaaaaally reaallly reallly love their prospects, especially that Perez kid, so much so that they're putting the uncertainties that come with said prospects over the known quantity of a Roy Oswalt.
Would it be fair to say death threats have been made should Julio Tehran be traded?
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Would it be fair to say death threats have been made should Julio Tehran be traded?
isn't he in the Braves org?
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isn't he in the Braves org?
Now you're just nitpicking...
[Don't know why I thought he was in the Rangers org. Doh!]
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Would it be fair to say death threats have been made should Julio Tehran Martin Perez be traded?
Oh yes. Keith Law and Kevin Goldstein have them convinced that he's the second-coming of Johan Santana. And in fairness to a couple of guys who really don't deserve fairness, he is supposedly a very good prospect. Like Lyles, he's one of the few 19-yr-olds at AA. However, Lyles has been putting up better numbers.
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isn't keith law a former executive for a reason? it's not like he was fired along with ricciardi at the end of last year.
ranger fan getting picky about what pitchers would do them better. fantastic. how many opportunities have they had at this. one or two? i'd go after the guy that i would have for another or two. no way i'd resign to play my summers in arlington.
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Oh yes. Keith Law and Kevin Goldstein have them convinced that he's the second-coming of Johan Santana. And in fairness to a couple of guys who really don't deserve fairness, he is supposedly a very good prospect. Like Lyles, he's one of the few 19-yr-olds at AA. However, Lyles has been putting up better numbers.
Somehow, I'm going to get a very perverse pleasure watching these stRangers (and fans) screw this chance up. If I were Roy, I'd be insulted by the low ball offers and say to Wade "I ain't going... they don't want me... I don't want them". Remember, Roy said that this was something he floated to McLane in order to help the Astros acquire prospects. If he is true to his word, he'll deny waiving his no-trade and say "those are not prospects, those are suspects... is that what Nolan really *THINKS* about me?"
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No, Nolan has already said what he thinks about him and it's far more respectful than the nitwits who value unproven youth over proven ML experience.
"You know, we definitely are looking to improve our ballclub, and when you have an opportunity, or might have an opportunity, to acquire someone like that, you have to look at it and evaluate it and see if that's a possibility and see if it's doable," Ryan said.
"I think he's phenomenal," Ryan said. "I think he's been one of the top four or five pitchers in the league for quite a while. He's a big-game pitcher and consistent with his stuff, as we see this year, with the way he's approached each game he's been in. He's special."
Link (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100618&content_id=11326856&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou&partnerId=rss_hou)
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No, Nolan has already said what he thinks about him and it's far more respectful than the nitwits who value unproven youth over proven ML experience.
"You know, we definitely are looking to improve our ballclub, and when you have an opportunity, or might have an opportunity, to acquire someone like that, you have to look at it and evaluate it and see if that's a possibility and see if it's doable," Ryan said.
"I think he's phenomenal," Ryan said. "I think he's been one of the top four or five pitchers in the league for quite a while. He's a big-game pitcher and consistent with his stuff, as we see this year, with the way he's approached each game he's been in. He's special."
Link (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100618&content_id=11326856&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou&partnerId=rss_hou)
See, that's the Nolan Ryan I remember. Damn, he's going to take these yahoos to the playoffs with a real chance to win in spite of themselves. Looks like it may be kicking and screaming all the way too. Wow, baseball actually understood in the Cowboy holy ground? Say it ain't so Nolan, say it ain't so!
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See, that's the Nolan Ryan I remember. Damn, he's going to take these yahoos to the playoffs with a real chance to win in spite of themselves. Looks like it may be kicking and screaming all the way too. Wow, baseball actually understood in the Cowboy holy ground? Say it ain't so Nolan, say it ain't so!
I can't put in words how much this notion bothers me. This is worse that letting Nolan leave for the Rangers, as a player, and watching him inducted to the HoF as a Ranger. It's wrong, no matter which way you cut it.
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You can rub all you want to on McMullen's stain, but it's never going away.
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sorry, Nolan. he ain't no big game pitcher. has not been for quite a while.
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sorry, Nolan. he ain't no big game pitcher. has not been for quite a while.
Shh! Don't tell him!
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sorry, Nolan. he ain't no big game pitcher. has not been for quite a while.
So how do you value him on the open market? What would you pay him on a two-yr deal if you were a contender in need of a starting pitcher?
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So how do you value him on the open market? What would you pay him on a two-yr deal if you were a contender in need of a starting pitcher?
He's no Phil Taylor, that's for sure.
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He was Room Service Roy last night.
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He's no Phil Taylor, that's for sure.
Bra. Vo.
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Bringing up Oswalt trade rumors... this, unfortunately, has the smell of truth:
Acquiring Roy Oswalt would apparently cost a great deal. Word is that the Astros would not only make the acquiring team pay all of Oswalt's salary -- the rest of his $15 million this year, $16 million next year and a $2 million buyout on the 2012 team option -- but also wants three major-league-ready young players in return.
It's possible that demand comes from owner Drayton McLane and not GM Ed Wade. Pretty steep price, and that doesn't even factor in Oswalt's full no-trade clause.
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/07/06/trade-buzz-tigers-relief-lee-oswalt/
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Bringing up Oswalt trade rumors... this, unfortunately, has the smell of truth:
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/07/06/trade-buzz-tigers-relief-lee-oswalt/
that is what i was told two weeks ago re McLane by someone who knows.
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that is what i was told two weeks ago re McLane by someone who knows.
The fish continues to rot from the head.
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He better hope that someone gets REAL desperate.
I wonder if Roy is aware that the sum of professional baseball (except Nolan Ryan, somehow) thinks that he's mailing in his starts?
It would be very difficult to justify paying that price for Oswalt at this point.
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I wonder if Roy is aware that the sum of professional baseball (except Nolan Ryan, somehow) thinks that he's mailing in his starts.
He's saving himself so he'll be fresh for the stretch run with his new team. That should make him even more valuable.
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So what you're saying is that we're going to get lots of chances to see if Roy can pass Niekro?
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So what you're saying is that we're going to get lots of chances to see if Roy can pass Niekro?
Ugh.
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Interesting that McLane, who by all accounts hates to pay someone to not work, is paying for Cooper, Matsui and what's left of Feliz but overvalues Oswalt enough to depress his possible contribution to rebuilding for another 12-18 months.
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Bringing up Oswalt trade rumors... this, unfortunately, has the smell of truth:
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2010/07/06/trade-buzz-tigers-relief-lee-oswalt/
I wonder if McLane would be willing to take on a veteran in trade for a close to even salary swap in order to get 3 excellent prospects?
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Didn't McLane himself say just a few weeks ago that the team would be willing to pick up salary if it meant better prospects? Maybe Price is going off old/bad info?
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I wonder if McLane would be willing to take on a veteran in trade for a close to even salary swap in order to get 3 excellent prospects?
Do you have someone in mind?
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Do you have someone in mind?
I would imagine there are several teams who might fit. But, looking for higher quality prospects at the upper levels isn't going to be easy especially on contending teams. Lower levels is easier.
How about Oswalt to the Angels for Kazmir and 3 top prospects. Salaries are very close, and I understand they've about had it with Kazmir's inconsistency. That's just one example. I'm sure there are several possibilities I don't have the time to look up.
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The Dodgers are looking for a pitcher... how about Myers for Kyle Russell?
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Didn't McLane himself say just a few weeks ago that the team would be willing to pick up salary if it meant better prospects? Maybe Price is going off old/bad info?
Such reputable sources as Pinwheel and Jon Heyman have reported as much within the last week or so. So, do we believe them or a guy who writes for "AOL FanHouse"? Obviously, I believe Jim's source, but I get the impression that Drayton agreeing to eat some salary is a very new development.
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The Dodgers are looking for a pitcher... how about Myers for Kyle Russell?
How screwed are the Dodgers for taking on salary?
Why would the Astros want Russell?
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Such reputable sources as Pinwheel and Jon Heyman have reported as much within the last week or so. So, do we believe them or a guy who writes for "AOL FanHouse"? Obviously, I believe Jim's source, but I get the impression that Drayton agreeing to eat some salary is a very new development.
More like Drayton "saying he'll eat some salary", not necessarily that he'll agree to it. It's the old bait and hook trick, you know, like tell someone that they've automatically won a television set if you come out and listen to a timeshare pitch. McLane is a salesman through and through.
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How screwed are the Dodgers for taking on salary?
They should be able to afford Myers, not Oswalt.
Why would the Astros want Russell?
Because slugging outfielders are in short supply in the system?
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They should be able to afford Myers, not Oswalt.
Because slugging outfielders are in short supply in the system?
Considering how well he's pitched and that he has an affordable option for next year I would think the Astros could get more for him.
My inner GM says players with strikeout rates higher than Charlton Jimerson's aren't much value.
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They should be able to afford Myers, not Oswalt.
Given Myers is due only 1 million after July and he will probably be turning down his end of the second year, so no buyout.
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Considering how well he's pitched and that he has an affordable option for next year I would think the Astros could get more for him.
It's a mutual option - there's no way Myers picks up his side.
My inner GM says players with strikeout rates higher than Charlton Jimerson's aren't much value.
Ouch. Didn't realize he was struggling that badly.
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I would imagine there are several teams who might fit. But, looking for higher quality prospects at the upper levels isn't going to be easy especially on contending teams. Lower levels is easier.
How about Oswalt to the Angels for Kazmir and 3 top prospects. Salaries are very close, and I understand they've about had it with Kazmir's inconsistency. That's just one example. I'm sure there are several possibilities I don't have the time to look up.
I've thought of this too. The Angels are definitely losing patience with Kazmir and his inconsistency but I think they lose patience with players too quickly. I think they're done with Wood as well.
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my info is a couple of weeks old, granted, but the comment was: "there will be a trade only if the other team picks up all his salary." that team is interested in him so i'm sure my source knows--or did then.
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Peavy to the DL (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20100707&content_id=12029642&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws) with detached shoulder muscle. Olney speculates season could be over. White Sox are just a game back in the AL Central. Crazy Kenny might be inclined to give Wade a call at this point.
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Peavy to the DL (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20100707&content_id=12029642&vkey=pr_cws&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws) with detached shoulder muscle. Olney speculates season could be over. White Sox are just a game back in the AL Central. Crazy Kenny might be inclined to give Wade a call at this point.
Maybe he will claim Carlos Lee off waivers next month.
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Maybe he will claim Carlos Lee off waivers next month.
And maybe Giada and Rachael Ray will offer to make me dessert.
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And maybe Giada and Rachael Ray will offer to make me dessert.
and serve it to you on a waterbed with olive oil?
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and serve it to you on a waterbed with olive oil?
That would be HH, Rachael Ray, and Katie Couric. It's important to keep these things straight, so that the proper party can be alerted if conditions present themselves.
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and serve it to you on a waterbed with olive oil?
Women. I read that as, "...make me dessert."
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That would be HH, Rachael Ray, and Katie Couric. It's important to keep these things straight, so that the proper party can be alerted if conditions present themselves.
I know he has his fantasy. I didn't know if maybe you would like something similar with the two you named.
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I know he has his fantasy. I didn't know if maybe you would like something similar with the two you named.
I'm not as picky as HH.
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That would be HH, Rachael Ray, and Katie Couric. It's important to keep these things straight, so that the proper party can be alerted if conditions present themselves.
If Rachel calls and says Katie is not available, but Giada has a few hours to kill...go ahead and alert me.
For that matter, if we want to go back to Oregonians...Anne Curry will do in a pinch. I have this thing for 50-year old newswomen. I'm not sure why.
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If Rachel calls and says Katie is not available, but Giada has a few hours to kill...go ahead and alert me.
hours?
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If Rachel calls and says Katie is not available, but Giada has a few hours to kill...go ahead and alert me.
The hours won't be the only thing that gets killed.
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hours?
What I used to do all night now takes me all night to do.
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What I used to do all night now takes me all night to do.
nice
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hours?
He wanted to leave plenty of time for cuddling and talking afterward.
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Teams with scouts here watching Oswalt: Dodgers, Phillies, Rays and Mets.
per McTaggart tweet.
Granted, he's not exactly pitching against an offensive juggernaut, but today's not been a bad day for them to scout.
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per McTaggart tweet.
Granted, he's not exactly pitching against an offensive juggernaut, but today's not been a bad day for them to scout.
I don't know...the way the Pirates have hit the ball the last few nights, I'm wondering how they don't score 10 runs a game.
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Last night on BBTN, JP Riccardi said he thought the Rays would be the team that acquires Roy Oswalt. Paraphrasing Riccardi:
"If they are *serious* about competing for a playoff spot, they have to trade for a proven ACE like Oswalt. They have the prospects to get a deal done too." When asked what they would give up for Roy, Riccardi said one top of the line prospect and two other lower level prospects. When asked about Cliff Lee, Riccardi said he thought the Twins would acquire Lee. He also said that Oswalt would be the second choice for most clubs, so that is why he advocates that the Rays will do it sooner than others. He also said that the Yankees and RedSox do not need arms, but the BoSox and Phillies should be looking for a bat. He said Cecil Fielder for some reason and also Carlos Lee.
Strange comments from the one time GM.
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Last night on BBTN, JP Riccardi said he thought the Rays would be the team that acquires Roy Oswalt. Paraphrasing Riccardi:
"If they are *serious* about competing for a playoff spot, they have to trade for a proven ACE like Oswalt. They have the prospects to get a deal done too." When asked what they would give up for Roy, Riccardi said one top of the line prospect and two other lower level prospects. When asked about Cliff Lee, Riccardi said he thought the Twins would acquire Lee. He also said that Oswalt would be the second choice for most clubs, so that is why he advocates that the Rays will do it sooner than others. He also said that the Yankees and RedSox do not need arms, but the BoSox and Phillies should be looking for a bat. He said Cecil Fielder for some reason and also Carlos Lee.
Strange comments from the one time GM.
ESPN hiring Riccardi to tell us what baseball GMs should do isn't as funny as their hiring Matt Millen to tell us what football GMs should do, but they're in the same neighborhood on the Ridicule Potential scale.
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I agree. Cecil could really help the Phillies.
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ESPN hiring Riccardi to tell us what baseball GMs should do isn't as funny as their hiring Matt Millen to tell us what football GMs should do, but they're in the same neighborhood on the Ridicule Potential scale.
Riccardi pales in comparison to Steve Phillips, in that regard. Even before the ugly intern debacle.
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Riccardi pales in comparison to Steve Phillips, in that regard. Even before the ugly intern debacle.
At least Phillips made the playoffs.
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Riccardi ended the segment with a very stern statement (and look directly into the camera) "This is what GMs are paid to do and they should do it. Prospects are basically unproven and you have to look 25 guys in the face and tell them you're doing your best to make this team a winner now."
I had to look away, he was scarring me.
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I agree. Cecil could really help the Phillies.
He also advocated the Phillies going out and trading for Bautisa in Toronto. Man, that guy is having a breakout season this year.
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So lets see. If Cliff Lee ends up being traded to the Yankees by Seattle (which appears like a distinct possibility) then the Yankees castoff Vasquez becomes the best available pitcher on the market? Mmmmm, okay Olney, whatever you say...
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I think it would be awesome if the Yankees got Lee. It will make the Mets go insane, which will put more pressure on them to go out and trade for a top-line pitcher (and the Yankees are not trading Vazquez to them). The more teams looking for pitching the better.
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So lets see. If Cliff Lee ends up being traded to the Yankees by Seattle (which appears like a distinct possibility) then the Yankees castoff Vasquez becomes the best available pitcher on the market? Mmmmm, okay Olney, whatever you say...
Contender trading away a star pitcher? That can't possibly go wrong!
Seriously, just ask the Phillies. I'm sure they're still thrilled that they traded Lee after last season.
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So lets see. If Cliff Lee ends up being traded to the Yankees by Seattle (which appears like a distinct possibility) then the Yankees castoff Vasquez becomes the best available pitcher on the market? Mmmmm, okay Olney, whatever you say...
That is almost as retarded as the persistent, idiotic statements about Roy's contract supposedly devaluing his trade value to nothing but a package of B- prospects.
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And maybe Giada and Rachael Ray will offer to make me dessert.
Somewhere in Blue Jay land last August Ms. Ray possibly made some fan a cheesecake.
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That is almost as retarded as the persistent, idiotic statements about Roy's contract supposedly devaluing his trade value to nothing but a package of B- prospects.
Eh... it's part media-whoring, part rival GM manipulation, and part lack of brain cells if you ask me. I'll be shocked if McLane ok's a discount deal for Oswalt (or Lee and Berkman) or picks up money on getting two MLB ready prospects in return along with one or two other high risk/high reward prospects as well. That's not based on any actual info, just my speculation.
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Cross the Rangers off your list of potential Oswalt suitors. "Confirmed" reports of a Cliff Lee + cash for Smoak + 3 trade.
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Cross the Rangers off your list of potential Oswalt suitors. "Confirmed" reports of a Cliff Lee + cash for Smoak + 3 trade.
Not all bad. Cliff Lee is out of the equation and the fan/media focus will have to move to the next best option. Like a guy that just pitched a 1 hitter. Very good for the Astros to get this done well ahead of the deadline. Now they can benefit from a long runnup.
Also, it sounds like this deal set a pretty high bar.
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Not all bad. Cliff Lee is out of the equation and the fan/media focus will have to move to the next best option. Like a guy that just pitched a 1 hitter. Very good for the Astros to get this done well ahead of the deadline. Now they can benefit from a long runnup.
Also, it sounds like this deal set a pretty high bar.
I wonder if Oswalt would approve a move to Anaheim.
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Ken Rosenthal says that Oswalt has ruled out Tigers and White Sox and "others."
http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/18136941086
Mets are prioritizing Ted Lilly :
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/oswalt-would-not-accept-trade-to-white-sox-tigers.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MlbTradeRumors+(MLB+Trade+Rumors)
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Ken Rosenthal says that Oswalt has ruled out Tigers and White Sox and "others."
http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/18136941086
Mets are prioritizing Ted Lilly :
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/oswalt-would-not-accept-trade-to-white-sox-tigers.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MlbTradeRumors+(MLB+Trade+Rumors)
I know Peavey is out for most (or all) of this season, but his is still under contract with the ChiSox until 2012. I'm having a difficult time believing Roy would refuse to be traded to his double-BFF-squared-to-infinity's team and have the opportunity to pitch with him for potentially two years (not to mention that I doubt Robothal, as most national baseball 'writers,' on most anything Astros related as a general rule...).
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I know Peavey is out for most (or all) of this season, but his is still under contract with the ChiSox until 2012. I'm having a difficult time believing Roy would refuse to be traded to his double-BFF-squared-to-infinity's team and have the opportunity to pitch with him for potentially two years (not to mention that I doubt Robothal, as most national baseball 'writers,' on most anything Astros related as a general rule...).
Last year Peavy didn't want to go to the White Sox or any AL team at first and then suddenly something changed. Or reporters don't know shit and the idea of him not wanting to go was pure bullshit in the first place.
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Ken Rosenthal says that Oswalt has ruled out Tigers and White Sox and "others."
http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/18136941086
Mets are prioritizing Ted Lilly :
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/oswalt-would-not-accept-trade-to-white-sox-tigers.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MlbTradeRumors+(MLB+Trade+Rumors)
I see. So "anywhere to contend" doesn't include the two teams virtually tied at the top of the AL Central? Either Rosenthal or Roy is full of shit.
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Or both.
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I know Peavey is out for most (or all) of this season, but his is still under contract with the ChiSox until 2012. I'm having a difficult time believing Roy would refuse to be traded to his double-BFF-squared-to-infinity's team and have the opportunity to pitch with him for potentially two years (not to mention that I doubt Robothal, as most national baseball 'writers,' on most anything Astros related as a general rule...).
Rosenthal gets much of his information from scouts. i have been around when such calls occur.
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I see. So "anywhere to contend" doesn't include the two teams virtually tied at the top of the AL Central? Either Rosenthal or Roy is full of shit.
Or he wants to contend in the playoffs but not for a playoff spot.
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Rosenthal gets much of his information from scouts. i have been around when such calls occur.
I just knew you were his "source," Jim, I knew it!
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I just knew you were his "source," Jim, I knew it!
unfortunately, no. someone else had the phone.
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Rosenthal gets much of his information from scouts. i have been around when such calls occur.
Good to know.
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Last year Peavy didn't want to go to the White Sox or any AL team at first and then suddenly something changed. Or reporters don't know shit and the idea of him not wanting to go was pure bullshit in the first place.
He killed a trade to the ChiSox earlier that season, so it wasn't just media BS.
Another thought on Roy not wanting to go to Chicago: earlier this season, when the White Sox were really scuffling, Williams made comments about being open to rebuilding. Peavy said that he'd want to play somewhere else if the team went in that direction. He may not have good things to say about the White Sox organization, and Roy probably doesn't want to go to a team that has considered a rebuild in the past five years. I'm sure Roy wants to play with Peavy, but things might be more complex than all that.
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Or he wants to contend in the playoffs but not for a playoff spot.
That'd be really handy. MLB should move the trade deadline back a bit to better accommodate him.
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He killed a trade to the ChiSox earlier that season, so it wasn't just media BS.
Another thought on Roy not wanting to go to Chicago: earlier this season, when the White Sox were really scuffling, Williams made comments about being open to rebuilding. Peavy said that he'd want to play somewhere else if the team went in that direction. He may not have good things to say about the White Sox organization, and Roy probably doesn't want to go to a team that has considered a rebuild in the past five years. I'm sure Roy wants to play with Peavy, but things might be more complex than all that.
By "complex" I assume you mean, "living north of the Mason-Dixon line" or "playing in the wussy Junior Circuit"?
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The Astros lining up Roy's starts as if he won't be with the team in August.
http://blogs.chron.com/unofficialscorer/2010/07/possible_oswalt_farewell_tour.html
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The Astros lining up Roy's starts as if he won't be with the team in August.
http://blogs.chron.com/unofficialscorer/2010/07/possible_oswalt_farewell_tour.html
I sure hope so.
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The Astros lining up Roy's starts as if he won't be with the team in August.
http://blogs.chron.com/unofficialscorer/2010/07/possible_oswalt_farewell_tour.html
I don't get it. Who are they hoping will come watch? "COME SEE THE LAME DUCK ASSHOLE MAIL IT IN!" Are they suggesting we all come and boo him?
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I don't get it. Who are they hoping will come watch? "COME SEE THE LAME DUCK ASSHOLE MAIL IT IN!" Are they suggesting we all come and boo him?
Shhhh we don't want Drayton to fire him before they get a trade worked out.
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Shhhh we don't want Drayton to fire him before they get a trade worked out.
Puhhhleazzzzzzzzzzzzze. Drayton never fires the "talent". Just ask Pam.
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Shhhh we don't want Drayton to fire him before they get a trade worked out.
And where the hell heck is my dozer?
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Puhhhleazzzzzzzzzzzzze. Drayton never fires the "talent". Just ask Pam.
I was unaware Pam knew how to assess talent.
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I was unaware Pam knew how to assess talent.
A certain kind of talent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attic_talent), perhaps.
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A certain kind of talent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attic_talent), perhaps.
Nicely done!
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A certain kind of talent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attic_talent), perhaps.
Spare a talent for an old ex-leper...
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And where the hell heck is my dozer?
Hey, I know Pam's been gaining weight, but... wow...
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The Astros lining up Roy's starts as if he won't be with the team in August.
http://blogs.chron.com/unofficialscorer/2010/07/possible_oswalt_farewell_tour.html
Gimmicks like these piss me off. Drayton is putting this show above actually winning. Of course, this is consistent with what's been going on here for a while.
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Gimmicks like these piss me off. Drayton is putting this show above actually winning. Of course, this is consistent with what's been going on here for a while.
The Astros could run a fan of the day promotion and let the winner play and it would only marginally decrease their chances of winning. They are a bad, bad team.
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Gimmicks like these piss me off. Drayton is putting this show above actually winning. Of course, this is consistent with what's been going on here for a while.
Meh. If McLane has a reasonable belief them at Oswalt will be gone by the end of the month, I don't have a problem with giving the fans an extra chance to see him. Roy's antics of late aside, I always enjoyed watching him pitch and would probably go to his last couple of appearances with the Astros if I were in town.
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The Astros could run a fan of the day promotion and let the winner play and it would only marginally decrease their chances of winning. They are a bad, bad team.
They look awfully good to me. Have I mentioned that I'm pricing ranchland in the greater Houston area?
--Neal Huntington
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Meh. If McLane has a reasonable belief them at Oswalt will be gone by the end of the month, I don't have a problem with giving the fans an extra chance to see him. Roy's antics of late aside, I always enjoyed watching him pitch and would probably go to his last couple of appearances with the Astros if I were in town.
Woo-hoo! Target audience reached!!
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Woo-hoo! Target audience reached!!
Really, all that's left for the season is trying to squeeze some more "tickets sold" out of the fanbase. I fully expect Tony Eusebio's number to be retired in a ceremony in September. Maybe James Mouton's as well.
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Really, all that's left for the season is trying to squeeze some more "tickets sold" out of the fanbase. I fully expect Tony Eusebio's number to be retired in a ceremony in September. Maybe James Mouton's as well.
Count me in if they retire "Shoes" Pittman's cleats.
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Really, all that's left for the season is trying to squeeze some more "tickets sold" out of the fanbase. I fully expect Tony Eusebio's number to be retired in a ceremony in September. Maybe James Mouton's as well.
"Come see the future of the Astros!" is an easy sell, if they were at all concentrating on the future of the Astros.
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Woo-hoo! Target audience reached!!
If Drayton'd send me a couple of round-trip plane tickets, I'd certainly attend. Then again, I'd also buy my game tickets from scalpers...
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"Come see the future of the Astros!" is an easy sell, if they were at all concentrating on the future of the Astros.
Except that if they're realistic they know they've only got one or two pieces of the future of the Astros to show.
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Except that if they're realistic they know they've only got one or two pieces of the future of the Astros to show.
Which is what I'm saying.
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"Come see the future of the Astros!" is an easy sell, if they were at all concentrating on the future of the Astros.
Castro is batting sub .200. Pam has already asked Hunter if he knows anyone from Arlington who can catch. #pillowtalk
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Pam has already asked Hunter if he knows anyone from Arlington who can catch. #pillowtalk
Unfortunately, she wasn't thinking about baseball.
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Mets have tired of Oswalt, and now demand Myers!
Somewhat. Not really. According to BusterTweet: An interesting possibility among the starting pitchers that the Mets are considering: Brett Myers, who is having a good season for HOU.
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It's about time. There are only 16 shopping days left.
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Can I just say something here? Because virtually all the shit that I read that talks about teams possibly trading for Roy makes this huge deal about how big his contract is, and that he would have to be paid for not just this year, but- the horror!- NEXT year, too, when he'll still be under contract. So I just want to get this off my chest:
Dear contending baseball team (cc: local beat writers, Buster Olney types, et al),
Do you need a fucking starting pitcher or not? Do you want a really good one, or just an innings-eater type? ...You wanted Cliff Lee, didn't you? Yeah, well I don't think the Rangers are gonna be trading him anytime soon. But, damn, you need a really good pitcher like, today, don't you? December will be a little too late. And guess what: you're not alone. That team a game and a half behind you, they want the same kind of pitcher, and those two other teams trying to go for the Wild Card too. And we're not even talking about the AL yet. You know Kenny Williams is gonna go balls-in for some upgrades.
So you know you can't just lowball the Astros for Roy Oswalt. And that darn Ed Wade is saying they might not even pay any of his contract, let alone 90% of it like the guys at the NY Daily PostNews seem to think they should. And, I assure you, Drayton McLane does not need to "dump" any salary. That means you better show them the prospects. Oh, what's that shit you're muttering? You're gonna get Ted Lilly? Sure, right: you want Ted fucking Lilly starting the rubber match of a late-September series with your big rival? Really? You must be the Yankees. You must know you're gonna win your division anyway, and have Sabathia, Pettitte, etc. throwing for you. Wait, what? You're not the Yankees? Then you probably want somebody better than Ted Lilly, don't you?
Let's try a different tack: What if Oswalt were a free agent right now? You think you could sign him for a two-year deal, for less money then he's owed right now? Did you hear about the Lackey contract? Who would you rather have on your team? Do you start to get the picture? Yes... that's right, motherfucker: Supply and Demand. Two very powerful forces, very much at work here. Now, if you offer up better prospects than anybody else can, I have a feeling Drayton might toss a few mil your way... maybe. So, how badly do you want to get to the playoffs this year?
Sincerely,
Reuben
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Can I just say something here? Because virtually all the shit that I read that talks about teams possibly trading for Roy makes this huge deal about how big his contract is, and that he would have to be paid for not just this year, but- the horror!- NEXT year, too, when he'll still be under contract. So I just want to get this off my chest:
Dear contending baseball team (cc: local beat writers, Buster Olney types, et al),
Do you need a fucking starting pitcher or not? Do you want a really good one, or just an innings-eater type? ...You wanted Cliff Lee, didn't you? Yeah, well I don't think the Rangers are gonna be trading him anytime soon. But, damn, you need a really good pitcher like, today, don't you? December will be a little too late. And guess what: you're not alone. That team a game and a half behind you, they want the same kind of pitcher, and those two other teams trying to go for the Wild Card too. And we're not even talking about the AL yet. You know Kenny Williams is gonna go balls-in for some upgrades.
So you know you can't just lowball the Astros for Roy Oswalt. And that darn Ed Wade is saying they might not even pay any of his contract, let alone 90% of it like the guys at the NY Daily PostNews seem to think they should. And, I assure you, Drayton McLane does not need to "dump" any salary. That means you better show them the prospects. Oh, what's that shit you're muttering? You're gonna get Ted Lilly? Sure, right: you want Ted fucking Lilly starting the rubber match of a late-September series with your big rival? Really? You must be the Yankees. You must know you're gonna win your division anyway, and have Sabathia, Pettitte, etc. throwing for you. Wait, what? You're not the Yankees? Then you probably want somebody better than Ted Lilly, don't you?
Let's try a different tack: What if Oswalt were a free agent right now? You think you could sign him for a two-year deal, for less money then he's owed right now? Did you hear about the Lackey contract? Who would you rather have on your team? Do you start to get the picture? Yes... that's right, motherfucker: Supply and Demand. Two very powerful forces, very much at work here. Now, if you offer up better prospects than anybody else can, I have a feeling Drayton might toss a few mil your way... maybe. So, how badly do you want to get to the playoffs this year?
Sincerely,
Reuben
Bravo.
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Pert near perfect there Reuben. If I may just add a FTC for posterity...
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Outstanding, Ruben.
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Can I just say something here? Because virtually all the shit that I read that talks about teams possibly trading for Roy makes this huge deal about how big his contract is, and that he would have to be paid for not just this year, but- the horror!- NEXT year, too, when he'll still be under contract. So I just want to get this off my chest:
Let's try a different tack: What if Oswalt were a free agent right now? You think you could sign him for a two-year deal, for less money then he's owed right now? Did you hear about the Lackey contract? Who would you rather have on your team? Do you start to get the picture? Yes... that's right, motherfucker: Supply and Demand. Two very powerful forces, very much at work here. Now, if you offer up better prospects than anybody else can, I have a feeling Drayton might toss a few mil your way... maybe. So, how badly do you want to get to the playoffs this year?
Sincerely,
Reuben
i saw today that a key to the braves-blue jays trade was alex gonzalez' option for next year. granted, it is only 2.5 mil, but i would think that having one of the best pitchers in MLB over the last 10 years pulling down market value would be attractive.
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Reuben:
Damn, son. That was awesome.
Mr. Happy
p.s. I'm not going to say "so fucking nominated" just to fuck with Coach!
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I think it's time that "so fucking nominated" got its own shorthand.
SFN is the yin to Jim's WFW yang.
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Reuben:
Damn, son. That was awesome.
Mr. Happy
p.s. I'm not going to say "so fucking nominated" just to fuck with Coach!
no, it was Alkie who gave you megashit for that. i just piled on, as is my wont from time to time.
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I think it's time that "so fucking nominated" got its own shorthand.
SFN is the yin to Jim's WFW yang.
SFN
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no, it was Alkie who gave you megashit for that. i just piled on, as is my wont from time to time.
I think it was totally taken out of my intended tone. I was saying it with a smile on my face and was just joshin' Happy. I wasn't actually saying it to be a dick which is how I think it was interpreted.
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I wasn't actually saying it to be a dick which is how I think it was interpreted.
I don't understand how that could have possibly happened.
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I don't understand how that could have possibly happened.
The first part or the second?
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I don't understand how that could have possibly happened.
When have I EVER been a dick, you redneck fucktard piece of shit?
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Dear contending baseball team (cc: local beat writers, Buster Olney types, et al),
Do you need a fucking starting pitcher or not? Do you want a really good one, or just an innings-eater type? ...You wanted Cliff Lee, didn't you? Yeah, well I don't think the Rangers are gonna be trading him anytime soon. But, damn, you need a really good pitcher like, today, don't you? December will be a little too late. And guess what: you're not alone. That team a game and a half behind you, they want the same kind of pitcher, and those two other teams trying to go for the Wild Card too. And we're not even talking about the AL yet. You know Kenny Williams is gonna go balls-in for some upgrades.
So you know you can't just lowball the Astros for Roy Oswalt. And that darn Ed Wade is saying they might not even pay any of his contract, let alone 90% of it like the guys at the NY Daily PostNews seem to think they should. And, I assure you, Drayton McLane does not need to "dump" any salary. That means you better show them the prospects. Oh, what's that shit you're muttering? You're gonna get Ted Lilly? Sure, right: you want Ted fucking Lilly starting the rubber match of a late-September series with your big rival? Really? You must be the Yankees. You must know you're gonna win your division anyway, and have Sabathia, Pettitte, etc. throwing for you. Wait, what? You're not the Yankees? Then you probably want somebody better than Ted Lilly, don't you?
Let's try a different tack: What if Oswalt were a free agent right now? You think you could sign him for a two-year deal, for less money then he's owed right now? Did you hear about the Lackey contract? Who would you rather have on your team? Do you start to get the picture? Yes... that's right, motherfucker: Supply and Demand. Two very powerful forces, very much at work here. Now, if you offer up better prospects than anybody else can, I have a feeling Drayton might toss a few mil your way... maybe. So, how badly do you want to get to the playoffs this year?
Sincerely,
Reuben
Dear Yankees,
How's that A.J. Burnett experiment going? Oh, he only lasted two innings against the Rays today? And that Moseley guy you brought in to relieve him wasn't so hot? I'm so sorry to hear that. Good luck in your race against the Rays *and* the Red Sox. That will probably come down to who pitches the best.
Give me a call sometime,
Ed Wade
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Dear Yankees,
How's that A.J. Burnett experiment going? Oh, he only lasted two innings against the Rays today? And that Moseley guy you brought in to relieve him wasn't so hot? I'm so sorry to hear that. Good luck in your race against the Rays *and* the Red Sox. That will probably come down to who pitches the best.
Give me a call sometime,
Ed Wade
Dear austro,
Why don't you use your head and shut the fuck up?
Ever vigilant,
The BBGs
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When have I EVER been a dick, you redneck fucktard piece of shit?
Noe, why is Alkie so angry?
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fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
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Dear Yankees,
How's that A.J. Burnett experiment going?
I was told by a noo yawka this weekend that A.J. Burnett is the most hated man in the city.
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I was told by a noo yawka this weekend that A.J. Burnett is the most hated man in the city.
He raised the cost of a Metrocard and shut down our favorite Italian restaurant.
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I think it was totally taken out of my intended tone. I was saying it with a smile on my face and was just joshin' Happy. I wasn't actually saying it to be a dick which is how I think it was interpreted.
I took absolutely no offense whatsoever. Alkie's been joshing me for 15 years. I like it.
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Roesnthal: Oswalt attracting "only limited interest" (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-July-070110)
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Roesnthal: Oswalt attracting "only limited interest" (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-July-070110)
Interesting comment about trading Myers then re-signing him. Interest in Oswalt will quicken as the deadline approaches and other options disappear from the table. I hope the Astros get a little more flexible on the money thing - we need prospects, dammit!
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I hope the Astros get a little more flexible on the money thing - we need prospects, dammit!
Wish in one hand, shit in the other.
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I don't think he'll get traded. He's going to be an Astro his whole career.
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I don't think he'll get traded. He's going to be an Astro his whole career.
I'd rather see that than trade him for a couple of middling prospects (or, God forbid, a Milledge-type nobody). I hope Wade holds out for genuine, high-upside prospects.
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I'd rather see that than trade him for a couple of middling prospects (or, God forbid, a Milledge-type nobody). I hope Wade holds out for genuine, high-upside prospects.
Agree. The trade equivalent of TOGTFO.
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Agree. The trade equivalent of TOGTFO.
Top Prospects or get the fuck out
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Top Prospects or get the fuck out
Exactly.
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Top Prospects or get the fuck out
shouldn't it be TPOGTFO then?
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I don't see the urgency in trading Roy. He may be more attractive to another team in the offseason or at next year's deadline anyway. Money is the primary issue right now, but with each day that passes he's owed less and less. There'll be another 7 million or so off his deal by the end of this season.
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shouldn't it be TPOGTFO then?
Yep that would be it exactly.
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I don't see the urgency in trading Roy. He may be more attractive to another team in the offseason or at next year's deadline anyway. Money is the primary issue right now, but with each day that passes he's owed less and less. There'll be another 7 million or so off his deal by the end of this season.
I think people are making a bigger deal about his money than it actually is in reality. Signing a free agent pitcher of his caliber wouldn't be any cheaper than taking on his salary.
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Olney tweets:
Heard this: The Dodgers are looking for a starter AND a reliever. They presumably will need $ relief, like they got in Casey Blake deal.
Show me your Dodger trades for Myers and Lyon.
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Showed up to my office building today to find 6 people from various offices in the lobby agreeing loudly with a man who announced "we bettah go get Ahswald from Houston."
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Showed up to my office building today to find 6 people from various offices in the lobby agreeing loudly with a man who announced "we bettah go get Ahswald from Houston."
Seriously... New York must be every bit the wet dream you originally described it to be in order to avoid killing yourself.
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Seriously... New York must be every bit the wet dream you originally described it to be in order to avoid killing yourself.
Luckily, it is.
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I think people are making a bigger deal about his money than it actually is in reality. Signing a free agent pitcher of his caliber wouldn't be any cheaper than taking on his salary.
You wouldn't have to trade multiple prospects to sign a free agent though.
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You wouldn't have to trade multiple prospects to sign a free agent though.
Most likely you'd have to give up a high draft pick though and pay significantly more.
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Most likely you'd have to give up a high draft pick though and pay significantly more.
Yep in a way you are trading away what ifs for a major league player with a track record.
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I don't think he'll get traded. He's going to be an Astro his whole career.
I hope so, particularly if the choice is between hanging on to him or getting very little in return.
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5396916
There were indications Tuesday the Phillies were working on a major deal to acquire a starting pitcher in an attempt to save a season that has veered in the wrong direction this month.
The Phillies will need a starting pitcher for Saturday, since they sent Monday's starter Kyle Kendrick back to the minor leagues on Tuesday. Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr., who is with the club in St. Louis, hinted strongly to reporters that the Phillies could acquire a pitcher from outside the organization to make that start.
At the same time, they were also discussing a companion trade that would move outfielder Jayson Werth to free up money, open a spot for top prospect Domonic Brown and replenish their prospect supply.
On the pitching front, the Phillies have discussed deals involving a number of starters. They've talked about Arizona's Dan Haren, Baltimore's Jeremy Guthrie and Oakland's Ben Sheets, among others. But there were indications they've spent a lot of time in recent days exploring a trade for Astros ace Roy Oswalt.
Oswalt would have to approve any trade, and there were no signs he'd been approached about waiving his no-trade clause or that he'd been told any deal was close. He is also said to prefer to go to a team in the South or Midwest, so there were no guarantees he would approve a deal to Philadelphia.
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A lot of Twitter banter on Roy potentially going to the Phillies in a 3-team deal sending Werth to the 3rd team. Coming primarily from Olney and Ed Price though, so take it for what it is worth...
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Olney concurs (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/19042827139)
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Which contending team needs an outfielder like Werth, can pay what's left of his $7mil contract this year and has good prospects?
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Ed Price (AOL Fanhouse): Astros close to putting ball in Oswalt's court (http://twitter.com/ed_price/status/19044611499)
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Which contending team needs an outfielder like Werth, can pay what's left of his $7mil contract this year and has good prospects?
Giants, Braves, Red Sox?
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Giants, Braves, Red Sox?
I was thinking Rays. Zobrist isn't lighting things up for them, and they would be on the hook for $3+mil this year only. Werth is a FA this winter.
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I was thinking Rays. Zobrist isn't lighting things up for them, and they would be on the hook for $3+mil this year only. Werth is a FA this winter.
Wouldn't they just call up Jennings instead?
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I was thinking Rays.
Olney via Twitter (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN):
Jayson Stark and I heard this: Tampa Bay involved in discussions for Jayson Werth. Could be landing spot for his salary, to free up payroll space for a more expensive commodity -- such as Roy Oswalt. The Phillies are working very, very aggressively to move Werth.
Robothal after the initial Olney/Stark volleys (via Twitter (http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19045314865)):
Amaro: Phillies "not close" to trade, talking to "many clubs on many fronts." Diamondbacks, Astros, A's also say not close to deal.
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Wouldn't they just call up Jennings instead?
Jennings is doing alright, but not exactly lighting up AAA (.287/.364/.398). They probably don't feel he could contribute to a title this season. Werth would be a good fit for them. Besides, we need Jeremy Hellickson thrown our way in the deal.
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Olney concurs (http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/19042827139)
Targeting 1B Rizzotti as part of the return?
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Perhaps 1B Jonathan Singleton, who becomes trade-eligible today (one year after signing). Singleton and RHP Jarred Cosart are two high-upside guys in the lower levels of the Phillies' system. And perhaps J.A. Happ if the Astros are seeking ML-ready talent. All wild speculation on my part.
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Oswalt on Phillies:
http://twitter.com/BernardoFallas/statuses/19086024175
"RHP Roy Oswalt: Team hasn't approached me about a trade. Would consider Philly."
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Perhaps 1B Jonathan Singleton, who becomes trade-eligible today (one year after signing). Singleton and RHP Jarred Cosart are two high-upside guys in the lower levels of the Phillies' system. And perhaps J.A. Happ if the Astros are seeking ML-ready talent. All wild speculation on my part.
Stark tweeted earlier that the club had Brocail scouting Happ's start last night. They have mentioned a desire for MLB-ready players, so Happ could fit that bill, though I have a hard time getting excited about him.
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And now he posts on the website:
Roy Oswalt is asking for the Phillies, or any team that acquires him, to guarantee his $16 million option in 2012 before he would approve a trade, according to two sources familiar with the discussions.
That goes along with Oswalt's comments elsewhere:
When asked specifically about the possibility of playing for the Phillies, Oswalt said, "It would have to work for both of us. If it don't work for both of us, no. But if it does, maybe."
As for players we might (have) receive(d):
According to one source who has spoken with both clubs, the rest of the deal likely would be built around prospects who are further from the majors. The current edition of Baseball America reports that "no team has more talent in A ball than the Phillies." And it's believed the Astros would get one or two players from that prospect pool.
Teams that have spoken with the Phillies say they have rebuffed all attempts to include their top hitting prospects, triple-A outfielder Domonic Brown or Class A first baseman Jonathan Singleton, in any deal. And an elbow injury to their top pitching prospect, Jarred Cosart, has apparently removed him from any current trade talks as well.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5398937
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If Oswalt is asking for his option year to be guaranteed, he's a bigger dick than I thought. Is he afraid he'll be an FA at age 34? More prima donna b.s. from a man who ASKED to be traded.
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If Oswalt is asking for his option year to be guaranteed, he's a bigger dick than I thought.
impossible for me. i jumped off his bandwagon years ago.
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If Oswalt is asking for his option year to be guaranteed, he's a bigger dick than I thought. Is he afraid he'll be an FA at age 34? More prima donna b.s. from a man who ASKED to be traded.
Trade me, but trade me to a place wheree I can go to the World Series.
(Looks at 2008/2009 World Series highlights)
Philly? Eh, I'll need more money.
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If Oswalt is asking for his option year to be guaranteed, he's a bigger dick than I thought. Is he afraid he'll be an FA at age 34? More prima donna b.s. from a man who ASKED to be traded.
He wouldn't get $16M per as a FA after '11, so I understand that. But, I am perturbed that he's making it as difficult as possible to accommodate his desire. If it's about getting a ring, you're only shooting yourself in the foot here.
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Trade me, but trade me to a place wheree I can go to the World Series.
(Looks at 2008/2009 World Series highlights)
Philly? Eh, I'll need more money.
he went to the WS. how did he do?
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great for 4 innings.
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he went to the WS. how did he do?
I'll say this much... at least he didn't fake a hamstring.
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Maybe an MLBPA issue as well. Giving up a no-trade without any monetary return I'm sure rubs MLBPA the wrong way. No idea if Oswalt is a firm union guy.
From where I stand, the NTC isn't worth $16m. In the end, it probably means Drayton has to eat more money to make that figure acceptable to the Phillies.
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Maybe an MLBPA issue as well. Giving up a no-trade without any monetary return I'm sure rubs MLBPA the wrong way. No idea if Oswalt is a firm union guy.
From where I stand, the NTC isn't worth $16m. In the end, it probably means Drayton has to eat more money to make that figure acceptable to the Phillies.
if that's the case, fuck him. in fact, a player's ntc should be voided if he asks to be traded.
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Maybe an MLBPA issue as well. Giving up a no-trade without any monetary return I'm sure rubs MLBPA the wrong way. No idea if Oswalt is a firm union guy.
I can't see how that could possibly rub the MLBPA the wrong way. That's total nonsense.
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They've intervened when a player loses out on guaranteed money in a trade (A-Rod to Boston), but I can't think of a time when they were upset over a player simply waiving his NTC to go to a better club.
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They've intervened when a player loses out on guaranteed money in a trade (A-Rod to Boston), but I can't think of a time when they were upset over a player simply waiving his NTC to go to a better club.
Exactly. That's the whole point of a NTC.
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Jon Heyman playing catchup, as usual (http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman/status/19106144402)
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They've intervened when a player loses out on guaranteed money in a trade (A-Rod to Boston), but I can't think of a time when they were upset over a player simply waiving his NTC to go to a better club.
I'm not as informed as some about players with NTC's being traded, but it sure seems that they tend either get extensions or options picked up. Does anyone remember specific deals in which players with NTCs agreed to a trade without getting one of the above? How many players did a concession.
If you can get it in the contract, I'd love to see the standard turn into the suggestion that if you demand a trade, the NTC is gone.
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I understand the general desire for folks to be 'compensated' for waiving their NTCs (and recall there generally being some extra monetary incentive for doing so), but think this a tad different than many of those circumstances. The compensation here would be: "Hey Roy, you wanted to be traded to a contender and here is your opportunity. If you don't like it, please understand that we are happy to continue to have you pitch for the Astros for the next 2 years. Your choice. -MGT"
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Oswalt is apparently unaware of his demand to pick up his 2012 option.
"@brianmctaggart: Roy Oswalt when asked about reports he wants his 2012 option to be picked up: "I heard that today on TV. I don't know anyting about it."
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Oswalt is apparently unaware of his demand to pick up his 2012 option.
"@brianmctaggart: Roy Oswalt when asked about reports he wants his 2012 option to be picked up: "I heard that today on TV. I don't know anyting about it."
Right, and Astros GM Ed Wade was the first to go public. He didn't have his DL'd BFF up in Chicago do it on his behalf. No... nothing like that EVER happened.
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I'm not as informed as some about players with NTC's being traded, but it sure seems that they tend either get extensions or options picked up. Does anyone remember specific deals in which players with NTCs agreed to a trade without getting one of the above? How many players did a concession.
If you can get it in the contract, I'd love to see the standard turn into the suggestion that if you demand a trade, the NTC is gone.
I think Roy's best friend Jake Peavey had to have a similar concession before he granted a trade to Chicago. Players talk to each other, especially those who hunt together.
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he went to the WS. how did he do?
Exactly what I think when people post that they feel sorry for Roy because the organization won't pander to him.
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dont the agents work for the players? i dont understand how the 2012 option comes up and roy claims he doesnt know what is going on. dont
you think -he- would have some say on what to do with the option since -he- is the one would have to pitch in philadelphia, detroit, etc?
i just can't see how something doesn't get done, especially with the phillies since stark made them sound -really-desperate for SP.
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dont the agents work for the players?
Roy's agent Bob Garber? Depends on who you talk to perhaps... Astros County with some interesting info on Garber's track record: LINK (http://www.astroscounty.com/2010/07/bob-garber-doesnt-have-cleanest-track.html)
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I'd rather see him go to the Phillies.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/top-posts/the-cardinals-are-the-front-runners-for-roy-oswalt.php
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What does the Cardinals' farm system have to offer? I thought they were fairly depleted.
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I'd rather see him go to the Phillies.
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/top-posts/the-cardinals-are-the-front-runners-for-roy-oswalt.php
Ugh. While any trade at this point is a good thing, sending O to the Jakes just doesn't feel right. Do they have any world-beaters in the minors to get the deal done? I'd prefer to fleece the entire franchise of its young talent if so.
Fuck the Jakes.
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Dirty steve, Roy is smart enough to get out of the way and let his agent do his job, which is to get the best deal he can for his client and not leave money on the table, within whatever guidelines Roy has set up. This is all part of the negotiation. Either someone will blink and a deal will get done or it won't, but it's all part of getting the best deal.
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If this possible deal with the Cardinals gets around, seems to me the market just got very interested in what the Jakes are planning to do. Carpenter, Wainwright, Oswalt? Wow, even the Yankees would try to block that from happening. Seems to me someone knows how to create a market for a pitcher who for all the world makes it damn hard to trade his butt.
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What does the Cardinals' farm system have to offer? I thought they were fairly depleted.
There's not much in the upper levels. Shelby Miller is their top prospect, but is at low-A. Lance Lynn is at AAA, but I don't know that he's a centerpiece in a deal.
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There's not much in the upper levels. Shelby Miller is their top prospect, but is at low-A. Lance Lynn is at AAA, but I don't know that he's a centerpiece in a deal.
Just going off what I've read about the Cards' system, I imagine a deal would have to be built around Miller. He is, by all accounts, a true stud.
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I understand the general desire for folks to be 'compensated' for waiving their NTCs (and recall there generally being some extra monetary incentive for doing so), but think this a tad different than many of those circumstances. The compensation here would be: "Hey Roy, you wanted to be traded to a contender and here is your opportunity. If you don't like it, please understand that we are happy to continue to have you pitch for the Astros for the next 2 years. Your choice. -MGT"
And they need to add that he will do this while keeping his mouth shut about his teammates.
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Roy's agent is on 1560 now.
Translating the agent-speak, he is ABSOLUTELY insisting on the option being picked up.
"You have to understand, there are teams that would make a deal only on the basis that they could work out an extension for him" - in response to "if you insist that his option be picked up, doesn't that decrease his chances of being traded?"
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I will be relieved when this prick is gone.
Trade me, but only where I want. Oh, now let me squeeze some more cash out. It's about that championship I seek. You know that. Right.
Please, get the fuck out of here Roy.
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I will be relieved when this prick is gone.
Trade me, but only where I want. Oh, now let me squeeze some more cash out. It's about that championship I seek. You know that. Right.
Please, get the fuck out of here Roy.
The Astros signed the contract with the no-trade clause in it. That's what a no-trade clause is intended to do: give the player all the leverage.
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The Astros signed the contract with the no-trade clause in it. That's what a no-trade clause is intended to do: give the player all the leverage.
Yes, and I hate the fact that Drayton handed out no-trades like candy.
But Roy was the one to go public with the trade demand, and kill any remaining leverage the Astros had.
I say let him rot here unless we can get a deal we love.
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Yes, and I hate the fact that Drayton handed out no-trades like candy.
But Roy was the one to go public with the trade demand, and kill any remaining leverage the Astros had.
I say let him rot here unless we can get a deal we love.
Agreed entirely on all points. And the no-trade wasn't necessarily the wrong decision at the time for someone like Oswalt. But it is what it is now, so they have to deal with it. The leverage the Astros have is, as you point out, letting him rot if he makes a worthwhile deal impossible. He has to agree to any trade. But the Astros have no obligation at all to trade him. Maybe that will motivate him to shut up and cooperate.
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Clearly he's not so desperate to leave if he's making such onerous preconditions. Anyone who's begging for divorce doesn't then DEMAND that the partner move out and leave everything behind. Roy is merely flirting with the idea of divorce.
The Astros should stand pat if he won't budge AND there's no "other woman" lusting after him enough to be willing to pay off all his credit card debt.
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Clearly he's not so desperate to leave if he's making such onerous preconditions. Anyone who's begging for divorce doesn't then DEMAND that the partner move out and leave everything behind. Roy is merely flirting with the idea of divorce.
The Astros should stand pat if he won't budge AND there's no "other woman" lusting after him enough to be willing to pay off all his credit card debt.
I think the only "divorce" in question is the one between you and reality.
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Please tell us then, oh Oracle of All Things Oswalt, what is Roy's bidding?
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Anyone who's begging for divorce doesn't then DEMAND that the partner move out and leave everything behind. Roy is merely flirting with the idea of divorce.
I take it you're not very familiar with divorce proceedings?
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I take it the two of you aren't all that familiar with the definition of the term "desperate."
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Seems to me that it's July 22. A lot of rhetoric now may cease as we move on especially if the desire to get dealt is as strong as Oswalt makes it appear. Let's see what happens as we move toward the end of next week.
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I take it the two of you aren't all that familiar with the definition of the term "desperate."
I don't think anyone making 15-16 million dollars per year can ever be categorized as "desperate."
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Seems to me that it's July 22. A lot of rhetoric now may cease as we move on especially if the desire to get dealt is as strong as Oswalt makes it appear. Let's see what happens as we move toward the end of next week.
Exactly. So if you're the Astros, don't "settle." Wait for Roy to start sweating over the next 9 days. But if he won't come off his demands and no one will meet them, fine. He can assert his leverage to go only under certain conditions, and the Astros can assert their leverage to do nothing. But it won't come to that, not if Roy refuses to consider staying. If he's bent on leaving, he is the only one who has to ensure he leaves. As MM stated, the Astros don't have to do anything.
I just hope they don't feel like they do.
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Exactly. So if you're the Astros, don't "settle." Wait for Roy to start sweating over the next 9 days. But if he won't come off his demands and no one will meet them, fine. He can assert his leverage to go only under certain conditions, and the Astros can assert their leverage to do nothing. But it won't come to that, not if Roy refuses to consider staying. If he's bent on leaving, he is the only one who has to ensure he leaves. As MM stated, the Astros don't have to do anything.
I just hope they don't feel like they do.
That's what I'm thinking, and I'd assume other GMs realize it too, on some level: McLane doesn't NEED to move Roy's salary. Keeping a productive Oswalt on the staff for the next year and a half is not a bad outcome, marketing-wise. People will still come out to see him pitch. The Astros have not given any indication that they are trying to drastically reduce payroll. So it only makes sense to trade him if they can get bona-fide prospects in return.
And, I'm with Noe, the Cardinals talk is maybe just an attempt to drum up a better market for Roy O. I hope.
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I don't think anyone making 15-16 million dollars per year can ever be categorized as "desperate."
Well, Andy, he might make a lot of money, but he spends a lot of money.
/ewing'd
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Plus, he's got a family to feed.
/sprewell'd
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Well, Andy, he might make a lot of money, but he spends a lot of money.
/ewing'd
And he might be using a helluva drug.
/rickjames'd
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I just hope they don't feel like they do.
I don't think they do. Other than everyone being a year older and Roy being a year cheaper, they'll likely be in the exact same position next year.
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I don't think anyone making 15-16 million dollars per year can ever be categorized as "desperate."
No, you're right, "desperate" is actually drinking the motor oil. (If you've seen the end of "Quantum of Solace" you'll know what I'm talking about. Although come to think of it, that guy made a lot more than Roy.)
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Just going off what I've read about the Cards' system, I imagine a deal would have to be built around Miller. He is, by all accounts, a true stud.
The Cards' most compelling potential trading chip for most teams would seem to be 2009 first-round Draft pick Shelby Miller, a right-hander who has been on a roll lately at low Class A Quad Cities. Farm director Jeff Luhnow was given the opportunity on Wednesday to classify Miller as untouchable, but declined to do so. He said the right-hander quite surely would not be moved for a two-month rental player, but that for a longer-term upgrade, any and all prospects could conceivably be in play.
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100721&content_id=12474476&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou
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I don't think they do. Other than everyone being a year older and Roy being a year cheaper, they'll likely be in the exact same position next year.
Interesting. I don't see that happening, but I'm not sure how intent on winning a title *now* some of these well-heeled organizations really are, or whether they think anyone believes them when they say Ted Lilly is the guy that can put them over the top instead. There's nothing close to an ace or a 1a pitcher out there besides Roy. And everyone knows it. Meanwhile the Yankees, Braves and Rangers are pulling away. This aint over yet. Unless, of course, Roy is content to stay with a 95-100-game loser instead of having another chance at a ring this year. If so, well, they'll just deal with this in the offseason again.
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http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100721&content_id=12474476&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou
Lyles, Miller, and Purke/Jungmann/whoever could probably get some astros fans excited about this (next?) decade. Not that any of those prospects are guaranteed to have any success in the bigs.
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http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100721&content_id=12474476&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou
The Astros had scouts at his games before the 2009 draft.
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There's nothing close to an ace or a 1a pitcher out there besides Roy. And everyone knows it.
Roy isn't either of these things any more, so that may be part of the issue.
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Roy isn't either of these things any more, so that may be part of the issue.
Yes, he is.
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Yes, he is.
no way is he either.
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Yes, he is.
Do you think there are some scouts reading this site?
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Do you think there are some scouts reading this site?
doubtful, but just in case. Yes, he is.
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Do you think there are some scouts reading this site?
I wonder...
"The one thing I wonder about is how much he's been worn down by losing," one scout said. "He used to be an absolute bulldog out there. Now, it's almost like he's going through the motions some days. You just wonder how much all of this has taken its toll."
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100722
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Same article, on Myers:
"All I can tell you is what they told us," said an executive of one club that checked in. "They said they'd have to be overwhelmed to move him or Wandy Rodriguez."
/pleasejustbeposturing
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Roy isn't either of these things any more, so that may be part of the issue.
I can think of at least 5 teams in contention who would consider him to be either one or the other. He may not be what he once was, but he's still better than anything a bunch of clubs have, not only for his track record of winning but for what he's doing this season:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100722
Oswalt is averaging nearly a whiff an inning. He has the same WHIP (1.07) as Ubaldo Jimenez. He's third in the league in quality starts. And his opponent OPS (.619) is lower than the OPS against Roy Halladay, Chris Carpenter or Tim Lincecum. So clearly, this guy still can pitch, even as he closes in on his 33rd birthday next month.
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Look two posts above yours, and in the same article, for why he's not.
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I can think of at least 5 teams in contention who would consider him to be either one or the other. He may not be what he once was, but he's still better than anything a bunch of clubs have, not only for his track record of winning but for what he's doing this season:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings100722
(Oswalt is averaging nearly a whiff an inning. He has the same WHIP (1.07) as Ubaldo Jimenez. He's third in the league in quality starts. And his opponent OPS (.619) is lower than the OPS against Roy Halladay, Chris Carpenter or Tim Lincecum. So clearly, this guy still can pitch, even as he closes in on his 33rd birthday next month.)
Nothing to do with age. He flat out doesn't care when he's out there and has quit on his team. Aces don't do that. Despite what your numbers are telling you, that kind of crap matters to franchises when they're about to potentially be on the hook for 39 million dollars.
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Nothing to do with age. He flat out doesn't care when he's out there and has quit on his team. Aces don't do that. Despite what your numbers are telling you, that kind of crap matters to franchises when they're about to potentially be on the hook for 39 million dollars.
and scouts see it, write it down and tell each other about it.
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and scouts see it read it on SNS, write it down and tell each other about it.
FIFY
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Nothing to do with age. He flat out doesn't care when he's out there and has quit on his team. Aces don't do that. Despite what your numbers are telling you, that kind of crap matters to franchises when they're about to potentially be on the hook for 39 million dollars.
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply it had to do with age, it just happened to be at the end of the quotation. You've spoken with every scout from the contenders? I'm not convinced that just because one, two or even a few out there feel that he's lost his edge to dominate means that not one single contending team therefore would see him as their ace the minute he walked into their clubhouse.
Scouts do differ on their opinions, you know. And some GMs and managers think they can turn bad attitudes around in any case. I guess we'll see.
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Same article, on Myers:
/pleasejustbeposturing
Why in the world would they need to be overwhelmed to move him? I can't imagine that Myers would exercise his option to stay next year, and he's arguably the best trading chip the club has. I have to go with posturing, because the alternatives are insanity or gross incompetence.
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Why in the world would they need to be overwhelmed to move him? I can't imagine that Myers would exercise his option to stay next year, and he's arguably the best trading chip the club has. I have to go with posturing, because the alternatives are insanity or gross incompetence.
The only other alternative is that he's assured them he'll exercise his side of the option.
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The only other alternative is that he's assured them he'll exercise his side of the option.
I read someplace yesterday (sorry, can't remember where) that Myers likes it in Houston and might very well come back next year. In fact, there was speculation that they might trade him with the understanding that he would return as a free agent.
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I read someplace yesterday (sorry, can't remember where) that Myers likes it in Houston and might very well come back next year. In fact, there was speculation that they might trade him with the understanding that he would return as a free agent.
I saw that too, but it just reminded me of Randy Wolf.
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I saw that too, but it just reminded me of Randy Wolf.
Good point.
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I saw that too, but it just reminded me of Randy Wolf.
You're sending the wolf? Why didn't you just say so?
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The only other alternative is that he's assured them he'll exercise his side of the option.
If that were the case, couldn't both sides just go ahead and exercise the option now? Or does that have to wait until the offseason for some reason?
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If that were the case, couldn't both sides just go ahead and exercise the option now? Or does that have to wait until the offseason for some reason?
What if he tore his rotator cuff, started sucking, slammed his wife's head into the hood of his car, etc. etc.?
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What if he tore his rotator cuff, started sucking, slammed his wife's head into the hood of his car, etc. etc.?
Why offer anyone a contract for more than one season, then?
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Why in the world would they need to be overwhelmed to move him? I can't imagine that Myers would exercise his option to stay next year, and he's arguably the best trading chip the club has. I have to go with posturing, because the alternatives are insanity or gross incompetence.
I'm thinking it probably has something to do with the fact that he'll probably be a Type A or B FAgent. Witht he year Myers is having he most certainly get multi year offers from other teams. The Astros are in essence already sitting on one (type B) or two (type A) prospects so they have to get more than that to move him.
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Why offer anyone a contract for more than one season, then?
Because there is a competitive advantage to signing a free agent (most of the time) by offering the player more years. Here, the terms are already in place. If Myers said that he would only exercise his part of the mutual option now--and would not at the end of the season--then that's something for the organization to think about. Such an event doesn't seem to have occurred yet.
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And another team joins the hunt, the more the merrier.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7120495.html
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Tim Kurkjian (http://espn.go.com/espnradio/player?rd=1#/podcenter/?id=5400938&callsign=ESPNRADIO&autoplay=1) opines on the Oswalt scene.
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And another team joins the hunt, the more the merrier.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7120495.html
Yeah, a couple hours ago ESPN was teasing with "St. Louis frontrunner for Oswalt." Now it's "Cardinals and Phillies vie for Oswalt." Reminds me of when they were trying to convince us the Bulls were in the lead for Dwayne Wade. Personally I think Roy's taking his talents to South Beach.
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I wonder how many empty seats Roy, Lance and Wandy's contracts could pay for.
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Personally I think Roy's taking his talents to South Beach.
Given Bill Simmons' push to make this the new euphamism for masturbation, I think this sounds about right.
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Stark updates: (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5402582&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines)
According to one source, the Cardinals offered two young players off their major-league roster for Oswalt. Among the prospects the Astros are likely to press for: last year's No. 1 pick, 19-year-old right-hander Shelby Miller.
The Phillies, meanwhile, are thought to have offered pitcher J.A. Happ and a list of younger prospects for the Astros to choose from. But Houston is looking for higher-ceiling young players, particularly a catcher and/or corner infielders, than the names on that list.
"In the end," said an official of one AL team, "I don't believe the guy is going to insist on getting that option picked up. He wants out. And if he really wants out, that's going to change."
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Stark updates: (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5402582&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines)
I don't want Happ. He's 28 and coming off injury. I hope they're not interested in anyone who'll be at least 30 by the time the team is ready to start becoming competitive again. I'm not hearing much promising about St. Louis's crop down on the farm either.
Might need a third team with a deeper, richer prospect pool to get involved. Like the Rays.
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You're sending the wolf? Why didn't you just say so?
Don't do shit... unless.
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I'm thinking it probably has something to do with the fact that he'll probably be a Type A or B FAgent. Witht he year Myers is having he most certainly get multi year offers from other teams. The Astros are in essence already sitting on one (type B) or two (type A) prospects so they have to get more than that to move him.
Per Bajek's/MLBTRs reverse-engineering of the Elias Rankings (which have been generally close to the actual Elias rankings), Myers isn't close to even being a Type B free agent. LINK (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/elias-rankings-update-1.html) Since these rankings are based on 2 years of performance, Myers injuries in '09 are hurting his status. If he continues pithing like he has, maybe he gets to type B. At this point it is not looking likely however...
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I don't want Happ. He's 28 and coming off injury. I hope they're not interested in anyone who'll be at least 30 by the time the team is ready to start becoming competitive again. I'm not hearing much promising about St. Louis's crop down on the farm either.
Might need a third team with a deeper, richer prospect pool to get involved. Like the Rays.
but the deal with the rays is that they were (allegedly) getting werth their way so they would send players to the phillies. i would hope happ isn't a centerpiece of a possible phillies deal, either. the three-way deal with the rays seemed like a pretty good option. i like that there seems to be a legit market of contenders supposedly interested.
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The Phillies, meanwhile, are thought to have offered pitcher J.A. Happ and a list of younger prospects for the Astros to choose from. But Houston is looking for higher-ceiling young players, particularly a catcher and/or corner infielders, than the names on that list.
Catcher? Why focus on that position? I understand having depth, but if they're looking for players who are close to MLB-ready, that doesn't seem like a position of need. If you can get Jesus Montero from the Yankees, great. But, what other high-ceiling catchers would/could be available? High-ceiling pitching seems like it should be a much higher priority.
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Catcher? Why focus on that position? I understand having depth, but if they're looking for players who are close to MLB-ready, that doesn't seem like a position of need. If you can get Jesus Montero from the Yankees, great. But, what other high-ceiling catchers would/could be available? High-ceiling pitching seems like it should be a much higher priority.
That was odd to me as well, then I remembered that most of the pundits work off the logical thought process (for them) that once Houston gave up on JR Towles, they have now a huge need at that position. They know nothing about Jason Castro and I guess they're basically saying he's being rushed to the majors because of the need.
Some people in the organization share that sentiment actually, so it's not beyond unreasonable to think this way for many. Plus, Castro is probably known more for his bat than his glove and that probably needs to be addressed by the young man soon. He hasn't been anywhere near major league ready behind the dish in terms of how he catches a baseball (other skills are fine, but he's raw behind the dish to say the least).
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That was odd to me as well, then I remembered that most of the pundits work off the logical thought process (for them) that once Houston gave up on JR Towles, they have now a huge need at that position. They know nothing about Jason Castro and I guess they're basically saying he's being rushed to the majors because of the need.
Some people in the organization share that sentiment actually, so it's not beyond unreasonable to think this way for many. Plus, Castro is probably known more for his bat than his glove and that probably needs to be addressed by the young man soon. He hasn't been anywhere near major league ready behind the dish in terms of how he catches a baseball (other skills are fine, but he's raw behind the dish to say the least).
If the goal is to get the young guys experience now, it seems counter-productive to give up on Castro at this point (short-term or long-term). He probably was rushed some, but not terribly, not enough that his development is being hurt. Even through his growing pains he hasn't look overwhelmed. Trading for an expendable catcher to start now seems like a waste of your best chip. If the best deal involves receiving a AA catcher as the third piece, fine. But, unless they're getting a substantial upgrade at the position, it should be down on the list behind pitching (of any kind), CI, and MI.
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Houston is asking a high price in return for Oswalt.
According to a National League executive, the Astros have said the package must include two top prospects, a third minor-league player, and a young player who is "major-league ready." The Cardinals have depth in the outfield, enhanced by the recent play of rookies Jon Jay and Allen Craig at the major-league level. The top prospect in the Cardinals' system, Low-A pitcher Shelby Miller, is a Texas native and a prototype Texas fireballer, but the Cardinals cannot trade him until he has been under contract for a calendar year. He won't clear that threshold until August, and if he's included in any deal he would have to be a "player to be named later."
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_e6bcb945-7945-5e92-a9da-7d0c1eebfa6e.html
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http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_e6bcb945-7945-5e92-a9da-7d0c1eebfa6e.html
I certainly don't believe they're going to get four players, including two top prospects and a major-league ready player, for Roy. But I like that they're starting the negotiations high. But I wouldn't have believed that Richie Sexson (plus Shane Nance and Noochie Varner) would net six players, either.
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What's the deal with those StL OFs, Jay and Craig? Are they seasoned 4A types who happen to be on big-time hot streaks, or are they legit prospects? I'm sure with Ludwick set to come back soon, the Cards are probably offering at least one of them. But of course the Astros don't have much need for MLB-ready OFs right now.
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Noochie Varner
Please tell me you didn't make this guy up.
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Seems to me there's a whole lot of smoke blowing around out there.
Teams saying the Astros are asking for the world is using the media to try to influence other teams to stay away.
Remember too folks that even if a catcher is included in the deal it doesn't mean the Astros intend to keep that catcher. He or Castro could be viewed as a chip in another trade.
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If the goal is to get the young guys experience now, it seems counter-productive to give up on Castro at this point (short-term or long-term). He probably was rushed some, but not terribly, not enough that his development is being hurt. Even through his growing pains he hasn't look overwhelmed. Trading for an expendable catcher to start now seems like a waste of your best chip. If the best deal involves receiving a AA catcher as the third piece, fine. But, unless they're getting a substantial upgrade at the position, it should be down on the list behind pitching (of any kind), CI, and MI.
To be clear, I'm not saying you have to "give up" on Castro based on a handful of major league games. But you do have to be prudent if you see in the long term that while Castro's bat will make him a fine candidate for a lineup position (and maybe a shift to LF or 1st base) and you have the young stud catcher being groomed in the minors. My real point was that the media saw the failed JR Towles experiment as a step backwards and thus it makes sense Houston is being proactive to not put all their eggs into the Castro bucket per se. Remember when the Rangers had a glut of catchers and everyone thought why would they trade for Salty (can't remember how to
IMHO - Castro will be fine as a catcher (he does needs improvement from my untrained eye), perhaps in a year or so (and Houston only needs a mentor type of backup catcher in my mind) he will be a fine major league catcher.
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To be clear, I'm not saying you have to "give up" on Castro based on a handful of major league games. But you do have to be prudent if you see in the long term that while Castro's bat will make him a fine candidate for a lineup position (and maybe a shift to LF or 1st base) and you have the young stud catcher being groomed in the minors. My real point was that the media saw the failed JR Towles experiment as a step backwards and thus it makes sense Houston is being proactive to not put all their eggs into the Castro bucket per se. Remember when the Rangers had a glut of catchers and everyone thought why would they trade for Salty (can't remember how to
IMHO - Castro will be fine as a catcher (he does needs improvement from my untrained eye), perhaps in a year or so (and Houston only needs a mentor type of backup catcher in my mind) he will be a fine major league catcher.
A move to LF or 1B seems to contradict the argument that the pick was a good one because it was an effort to get stronger up the middle defensively, while adding some offensive production at the catcher spot as a bonus. It will all come out in the wash, but I'd think it would be a disappointment if Castro doesn't stick at catcher. I don't mean to imply that's what you're saying--just surprised to see it presented as an option
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Please elaborate on Castro's weakness behind the plate, that would hint at a position change. My observational skills must be lacking as he looks to still be on a path towards a solid defensive catcher.
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Please elaborate on Castro's weakness behind the plate, that would hint at a position change. My observational skills must be lacking as he looks to still be on a path towards a solid defensive catcher.
To my untrained eye, he still has a tendency to turn the glove the wrong way.
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Please elaborate on Castro's weakness behind the plate, that would hint at a position change. My observational skills must be lacking as he looks to still be on a path towards a solid defensive catcher.
Catcher is the hardest position to learn. Has there ever been a young catcher in the majors who didn't have something that needed work?
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with limited observation, he looks pretty good to me.
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To my untrained eye, he still has a tendency to turn the glove the wrong way.
I will agree on the turned glove issue, but I thought he set a nice target, frames pitches better than any other catcher (except for maybe Cash) to play for Houston this year, and I thought he was pretty good on blocking several wild pitches. He's no Ausmus, but you don't find a catcher like him every day.
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with limited observation, he looks pretty good to me.
He looks pretty quiet to me behind the plate. Good target. Has some trouble receiving, glove positioning stuff. He also hasn't had to catch a whole lot of "ungodly breaking stuff" in the Astros' system, so I think that'll get better with time.
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I will agree on the turned glove issue, but I thought he set a nice target, frames pitches better than any other catcher (except for maybe Cash) to play for Houston this year, and I thought he was pretty good on blocking several wild pitches. He's no Ausmus, but you don't find a catcher like him every day.
Looks like he has a 'plus' arm to me as well.
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Please tell me you didn't make this guy up.
Nope, I didn't make it up; Milwaukee-Arizona trade info here (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/sexsori01.shtml#trans). Sadly, it doesn't look like he ever played in the majors.
Wow, I just looked further: it looks like he appeared in 98 games for the Hooks in '07 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=varner001gar). How did we miss that?
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Wow, I just looked further: it looks like he appeared in 98 games for the Hooks in '07 (http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=varner001gar). How did we miss that?
We didn't. You did.
http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=103096.0
http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=99071.msg100846#msg100846
http://www.spikesnstars.com/forums/index.php?topic=102459.msg132098#msg132098
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Wow, I never meant to imply he sucks as a catcher! He's just raw and will *get* better! *sigh*
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Jayson Stark on Twitter:
Heard from one source that the 2 major-league players StL told Hou it would deal for Oswalt are John Jay & Brendan Ryan. Not enough for Hou!
http://twitter.com/jaysonst/status/19358647400
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Holy shit. I wouldn't do that deal for Myers.
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Mighty charitable of them. Maybe if they threw in Jeff Suppan...and Al Hrabosky.
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Mighty charitable of them. Maybe if they threw in Jeff Suppan...and Al Hrabosky.
or Stan Musial, straight up.
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or Stan Musial, straight up.
He's lost a little bat speed.
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Heard from one source that the 2 major-league players StL told Hou it would deal for Oswalt are John Jay & Brendan Ryan. Not enough for Hou!
That would be about the point in normal trade discussions where a click is heard on the other end of the line. That package, and they expect us to eat a significant chunk of salary? Good thing for them Roy's trying to keep our nuts in a vice during this process.
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He's lost a little bat speed.
probably would hit .290
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this is crap. they want to have the NTC renogotiated, dont want to give up shelby miller, and give us a(nother) light hitting middle infielder along with a 4th outfielder type. how fucking generous.
plus, the cards (allegedly) are the real team roy wants to go to. you are almost forced to find the right deal with the cards or potentially wait until the offseason to do something.
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this is crap. they want to have the NTC renogotiated, dont want to give up shelby miller, and give us a(nother) light hitting middle infielder along with a 4th outfielder type. how fucking generous.
Brendan Ryan makes AE look like Cal Ripken.
plus, the cards (allegedly) are the real team roy wants to go to. you are almost forced to find the right deal with the cards or potentially wait until the offseason to do something.
Bullshit. You make no deal and let Roy's ass rot.
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Bullshit. You make no deal and let Roy's ass rot.
Exactly.
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Bullshit. You make no deal and let Roy's ass rot.
that's almost where i am at. YOU request a trade and act like YOU hold all the power. total bullshit, again.
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On the bright side, Stark now tweets that the Yankees and Dodgers are both in on Oswalt. Now's about the time Roy should be receiving phone calls from Pettitte and Ausmus.
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On the bright side, Stark now tweets that the Yankees and Dodgers are both in on Oswalt. Now's about the time Roy should be receiving phone calls from Pettitte and Ausmus.
I like multiple bidders.
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Who are typically the quiet negotiators, if there are any anymore now that we have Twitter and Buster? I'm wondering if it's not someone like Minnesota (who apparently has a bevy of prospects, unlike Philly or St. Louis) or someone else whose name hasn't even surfaced yet. Someone who swoops in early next week and takes the lead behind the scenes. I remember in '98 the Hun coyly remarking on the radio the day before the trade deadline that the "Astros just might surprise some people" in the end. "Just wait and see" or something to that effect. Meanwhile Houston wasn't seriously on the radars of any of the "pundits."
And if Roy refuses to budge on 2012, Drayton can just sit him down and reassure him that the Astros will be doing everything they can over the next two years to be champions -- still.
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Who are typically the quiet negotiators, if there are any anymore now that we have Twitter and Buster? I'm wondering if it's not someone like Minnesota (who apparently has a bevy of prospects, unlike Philly or St. Louis) or someone else whose name hasn't even surfaced yet. Someone who swoops in early next week and takes the lead behind the scenes. I remember in '98 the Hun coyly remarking on the radio the day before the trade deadline that the "Astros just might surprise some people" in the end. "Just wait and see" or something to that effect. Meanwhile Houston wasn't seriously on the radars of any of the "pundits."
My memory is that by the deadline day, Gammons was commenting to keep your eyes on the Astros.
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Of course I meant *serious* pundits. But I don't recall much buzz up until then, do you?
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Of course I meant *serious* pundits. But I don't recall much buzz up until then, do you?
It gets fuzzy. I do remember staying up that night, more excited for the deadline than I had ever been.
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My memory is that by the deadline day, Gammons was commenting to keep your eyes on the Astros.
How totally different this year's days before the trade deadline feel compared with 1998 or 2004. Ugh.
Let's hope this all resolves itself soon and we're not in this position again for a very long time.
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It gets fuzzy. I do remember staying up that night, more excited for the deadline than I had ever been.
i stayed up until the deadline and was totally blown away. i knew at that moment the Astros would win the WS. put Johnson with that team? unbelieveable.
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i stayed up until the deadline and was totally blown away. i knew at that moment the Astros would win the WS. put Johnson with that team? unbelieveable.
In the euphoria, I was certain Drayton would find a way to re-sign him too. Simpler times.
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i stayed up until the deadline and was totally blown away. i knew at that moment the Astros would win the WS. put Johnson with that team? unbelieveable.
I was lying on the floor/couch with all the lights out, everyone else in the family having long since retired. I had a feeling Gerry would get it done somehow, not sure why. When I heard the midnight sports update it was surreal. I almost expected it but didn't quite believe it either.
Now I find myself trying to get pumped up again...this time for 2013.
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In the euphoria, I was certain Drayton would find a way to re-sign him too. Simpler times.
Would've been reckless to give a 4 year deal; he only managed 4 cy-youngs and 1,400 strikeouts over that period.
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i was in a club in savannah, ga and saw the trade on a ticker across the bottom of the TV. i had figured it was foregone that he was a yankee. nobody understood my drunken euphoria. i really thought with the alou deal the previous winter and having unit added to the rotation that a WS appearance was a great possibility.
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Would've been reckless to give a 4 year deal; he only managed 4 cy-youngs and 1,400 strikeouts over that period.
I think the Unit was going to Arizona no matter what. Just like Carlos 6 years later was going to NY. Whether it was Mets or Yankees, he didn't care. But neither was staying in Houston any more than LeBron was staying in Cleveland.
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I think the Unit was going to Arizona no matter what. Just like Carlos 6 years later was going to NY. Whether it was Mets or Yankees, he didn't care. But neither was staying in Houston any more than LeBron was staying in Cleveland.
yes. i learned later that his wife was from AZ and his going there was a certainty.
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I think the Unit was going to Arizona no matter what. Just like Carlos 6 years later was going to NY. Whether it was Mets or Yankees, he didn't care. But neither was staying in Houston any more than LeBron was staying in Cleveland.
I went to his first start as an Astro and rarely can remember the dome so electric. The sign they gave out that day adorned my wall until he didn't sign. Anyone remember what it said? I think it was something unoriginal like "Houston Welcomes the Big Unit" with white font on a blue card. Sterling fucking Hitchcock.
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Sterling fucking Hitchcock.
Go ahead, finish us off...
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On the bright side, Stark now tweets that the Yankees and Dodgers are both in on Oswalt. Now's about the time Roy should be receiving phone calls from Pettitte and Ausmus.
Yankees didn't take long to come calling after someone mentioned "Carpenter, Wainwright, Oswalt... oh my!" in a organization meeting. At worse, they make St. Louis be a little more serious about a deal (if they're really interested) and/or force themselves to block a trade for Oswalt by making a better offer (if one exist).
Create a market 101, is it any wonder Ed Wade started as a PR guy for the Astros under Tal Smith in 1978?
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Who are typically the quiet negotiators, if there are any anymore now that we have Twitter and Buster? I'm wondering if it's not someone like Minnesota (who apparently has a bevy of prospects, unlike Philly or St. Louis) or someone else whose name hasn't even surfaced yet. Someone who swoops in early next week and takes the lead behind the scenes. I remember in '98 the Hun coyly remarking on the radio the day before the trade deadline that the "Astros just might surprise some people" in the end. "Just wait and see" or something to that effect. Meanwhile Houston wasn't seriously on the radars of any of the "pundits."
And if Roy refuses to budge on 2012, Drayton can just sit him down and reassure him that the Astros will be doing everything they can over the next two years to be champions -- still.
To get serious prospects, you add money to the deal. There is speculation in the media that Drayton McLane don't play that way. He is the proverbial "wants his cake and eat it too" owner (funny, most of them are). But since McLane has eaten salary here in the not so distant past, the return of top of the line prospects for eating of some salary could be looked at from his vantage point as paying the salary bonus to the team that was already paid that to the bonus baby prospect.
Win-win-win.
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just read some of the oswalt talk viva el birdos, and they seem to think the deal can be done not including shelby miller. they also don't think alot of Houston management.
i also heard john heyman say on rome yesterday that oswalt hasn't proved it against the AL. so 143-81 career doesnt translate well to the AL?
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just read some of the oswalt talk viva el birdos, and they seem to think the deal can be done not including shelby miller. they also don't think alot of Houston management.
They also don't think.
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They also don't think.
true. came off as a bunch of elitist assholes too.
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Fhouse twittering that Roy sez the 2012 option isn't a dealbreaker if he likes the trade.
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Yankees didn't take long to come calling after someone mentioned "Carpenter, Wainwright, Oswalt... oh my!" in a organization meeting. At worse, they make St. Louis be a little more serious about a deal (if they're really interested) and/or force themselves to block a trade for Oswalt by making a better offer (if one exist).
Create a market 101, is it any wonder Ed Wade started as a PR guy for the Astros under Tal Smith in 1978?
But Noe, you are wrong. I have learned many things from the internet and the Einsteins who tweet on it. Of the things I've learned, I am absolutely confident that Ed Wade is a bumbling fucktard who wouldn't know a good trade if it was a splintered two-by-four smacking him upside the noggin.
The Astros under Wade never make good trades. See, for example, LaTroy Hawkins, Randy Wolf, Michael Bourn, Jeff Keppinger, Matt Lindstrom, and Angel Sanchez.
Only Ed Wade could fuck up a Roy Oswalt trade, and I fully expect him to do so.
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They also don't think.
this times infinity.
Thing is, it's not just them. It's literally EVERYONE except the resident regulars at SnS. Every forum I've visited and almost every article I come across has the same general theme. ED WADE IS A BIG FAT IDIOT DUR DUR BLIP BLAP BLAM.
Reading the endless stream of factless bullshit about Wade and McLane is making me question my sanity. Yeah, the Astros suck ass and are what their record says they are, but the reason they suck has less to do with Ed Wade than Lance Berkman, Carlos Lee, and Hunter Pence.
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Only Ed Wade could fuck up a Roy Oswalt trade, and I fully expect him to do so.
cardinal fan clearly expects him too. i hate them even more now.
they think the "Really?" shirts were in reference to Ed Wade.
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Um, excuse me but those are the best fans in baseball. They know that every player wants to be a Cardinal (except for those that know they aren't worthy) and those players are willing to not be paid (by the Cardinals) to do so.
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cardinal fan clearly expects him too. i hate them even more now.
they think the "Really?" shirts were in reference to Ed Wade.
Morans!!!
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cardinal fan clearly expects him too. i hate them even more now.
they think the "Really?" shirts were in reference to Ed Wade.
Yeah, why wouldn't he take Ryan and Jay and a couple of Low A, marginal prospects and think that was fair value? And who here thinks Bobby Heck could tell the difference on the farm between an emerging Albert Pujols from an enlargening Luis Pujols? So we should all just set our sights a little more squarely on reality.
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Just for kicks:
Oswalt lifetime vs. AL teams: 11-9, 3.73, 28 GS, 186 IP, 155 K, 47 BB, 1.33 WHIP. In other words, a slightly higher ERA but otherwise pretty darn close to his career averages.
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Fhouse twittering that Roy sez the 2012 option isn't a dealbreaker if he likes the trade.
She needs to twitter more important things.
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Just for kicks:
Oswalt lifetime vs. AL teams: 11-9, 3.73, 28 GS, 186 IP, 155 K, 47 BB, 1.33 WHIP. In other words, a slightly higher ERA but otherwise pretty darn close to his career averages.
more misguided commentary from the national media who only see HOU-NL next to Oswalt's name in box score.
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Just for kicks:
Oswalt lifetime vs. AL teams: 11-9, 3.73, 28 GS, 186 IP, 155 K, 47 BB, 1.33 WHIP. In other words, a slightly higher ERA but otherwise pretty darn close to his career averages.
A player would expect to have a slightly higher ERA pitching in games where the designated-hitter rule applies.
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If the Yankees are serious, I have no doubt this deal gets done. People are over-looking one key event, when it comes to the Yankees: Their owner died last week. Not that they needed any additional motivation to win the World Series, but I can see their fanbase outright demanding they win to commemorate the event.
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If the Yankees are serious, I have no doubt this deal gets done. People are over-looking one key event, when it comes to the Yankees: Their owner died last week. Not that they needed any additional motivation to win the World Series, but I can see their fanbase outright demanding they win to commemorate the event.
I've learned something. Yankee fans ALWAYS outright demand a WS title. They don't need another reason. It's they birthright or sumshit.
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How totally different this year's days before the trade deadline feel compared with 1998 or 2004. Ugh.
Let's hope this all resolves itself soon and we're not in this position again for a very long time.
Who can forget the halcyon days of 1987 when Dick Wagner assured Astros fans that the team would make an aggressive move. He then proved to be true to his word by plucking Buddy Biancalana from the Royals at the deadline.
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Damn I hope Roy can pitch one hell of a game tonight.
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Anyone else notice this?
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5407016
Sheets on DL with elbow injury
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Damn I hope Roy can pitch one hell of a game tonight.
Maybe he still can, if he goes home and fires up the Nintendo. He could even trade himself to the Cardinals if he wants to.
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Maybe he still can, if he goes home and fires up the Nintendo. He could even trade himself to the Cardinals if he wants to.
Brutal.
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But true.
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Brutal.
Sometimes the truth hurts.
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Brutal.
Two words: shit sandwich.
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Interesting, evenhanded read from Boston Globe: http://mobile.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2010/07/25/oswalt_may_be_the_subject_of_a_moving_story.
Among the highlights:
- Tal expects Roy to be dealt as there is plenty of interest from teams; thinks things will pick up starting today/tomorrow.
- Roy's track record in 2nd half (record is 70-23) very attractive to clubs.
Unrelated to the article, but if Astros scouts were at the Phillies/Rockies game, whom are they scouting?
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The Buzz from Fox Sports:
The Phillies remain one of three principal suitors for Astros right-hander Roy Oswalt — and perhaps the leading one. They are less focused on Haren, sources say.
The Astros are not enamored of the Cardinals’ young talent and are struggling to find a match with the Dodgers. They have asked the Dodgers for a major-league position player in a package for Oswalt, presumably outfielder Matt Kemp or first baseman James Loney. Such a request is a non-starter — and that is before the teams would even address the question of how much salary the Dodgers could absorb.
•: Oswalt, who has a full no-trade clause and effectively can choose his next club, reportedly lists the Cardinals as his No. 1 choice.
The Cardinals, however, remain skeptical that the Astros would trade Oswalt within the division even if they came up with a match.
Reference:
Rosenthal, K. and Morosi, J. (2010) Buzz: Latest news from around the horn. Retrieved from: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-July-070110
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The Buzz from Fox Sports:
Reference:
Rosenthal, K. and Morosi, J. (2010) Buzz: Latest news from around the horn. Retrieved from: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/MLB-latest-news-from-July-070110
The Jakes may want to start with something more than Brendan Ryan. Hey maybe Ed Wade should see if we can trade Tommy Manzella for Chris Carpenter.
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Whew.
Astros right-hander Roy Oswalt said Sunday morning he wouldn't veto a potential trade in exchange for getting another chance to tie the club's all-time wins record.
Also this:
Oswalt said he hasn't been approached by the Astros or his agent about any potential deals. When asked if he would be disappointed if he didn't get dealt at this point, he said: "I don't know what I'd feel. I've been pretty numb the last two weeks."
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Oswalt said he hasn't been approached by the Astros or his agent about any potential deals. When asked if he would be disappointed if he didn't get dealt at this point, he said: "I don't know what I'd feel. I've been pretty numb the last two weeks."
That his excuse for not pitching well? He felt numb?
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He didn't say that directly, in fact he's said repeatedly that the trade hoopla hasn't affected his starts. I'd feel better knowing that he'd sucked because he'd been thinking about it too much rather than have him suck just because.
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The Jakes may want to start with something more than Brendan Ryan. Hey maybe Ed Wade should see if we can trade Tommy Manzella for Chris Carpenter.
Actually, the Jakes are pretty smart to think first if they're being used as the focal point to create a market for Oswalt amongst other teams. May as well throw out a low ball offer to make sure you're not being used as bait instead of a real trade partner.
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The Jakes may want to start with something more than Brendan Ryan. Hey maybe Ed Wade should see if we can trade Tommy Manzella for Chris Carpenter.
Not saying he should be the center piece of any Oswalt trade, but I like Brendan Ryan. He's a big league defensive SS through-n-through.
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hopefully this will hasten things for contenders:
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=mlb&id=3711
haren to angels.
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hopefully this will hasten things for contenders:
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=mlb&id=3711
haren to angels.
That's a beautiful thing to read. Thanks.
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i have to think ed wade is justified with asking for a player from the major league roster with smoak going from Texas to Seattle and Saunders going from LAA to Arizona -plus- two minor leaguers going the other way in both trades. i think this bodes well for the Astros.
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i have to think ed wade is justified with asking for a player from the major league roster with smoak going from Texas to Seattle and Saunders going from LAA to Arizona -plus- two minor leaguers going the other way in both trades. i think this bodes well for the Astros.
The PTBNL is a top prospect, also. If it were Mike Trout, that would be fantastic for us, but doubtful. Tyler Skaggs could be a possibility, since he was signed on August 7th.
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The PTBNL is a top prospect, also. If it were Mike Trout, that would be fantastic for us, but doubtful. Tyler Skaggs could be a possibility, since he was signed on August 7th.
the four letter netwrok said trout was not going to be under consideration.
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Sure would be nice if the Yanks came to Houston with the offer they reportedly had out there for Haren.
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the four letter netwrok said trout was not going to be under consideration.
Skaggs is still a nice return. The Haren deal makes me more optimistic about Oswalt's return.
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Sure would be nice if the Yanks came to Houston with the offer they reportedly had out there for Haren.
Ivan Nova and Zach McAllister plus two guys? I think Wade should and could do better.
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hopefully this will hasten things for contenders:
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=mlb&id=3711
haren to angels.
Driving back from Seattle today listening to the Mariners postgame. They kept talking about a 'shocking' trade made by the Angels and for a 'top NL pitcher.' Two commercial breaks talking about how 'little' the Angels had to part with to get this 'top NL pitcher.' No mention of the NL team or pitcher. The whole time I'm thinking that Ed must have given up Roy for a bowl of mac-n-cheese. It wasn't until after 3 commercial breaks that they said the trade was for Haren...
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what a killer. the same happened when the rockets picked up kevin martin. all the radio guys were saying is that they gave up carl landry, without saying who was acquired.
i guess teams needing SP having to decide between oswalt, lilly and to a lesser extent, myers. i like the astros chances to come out of this with some good pieces. more if they decide to maybe move keppinger also.
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hopefully this will hasten things for contenders:
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=mlb&id=3711
haren to angels.
The knuckleheads on Sunday Night Baseball speculated the Angels may flip Haren, since a bat is what they really need.
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On SportsCenter this morning, Stark was the most recent of many to state that the Astros are asking for too much. Fair enough; he's entitled to his opionion. But then he went on to add that the Phillies "are aggressively looking elsewhere so they can tell the Astros to get lost". Man, they hate Houston up there.
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But then he went on to add that the Phillies "are aggressively looking elsewhere so they can tell the Astros to get lost". Man, they hate Houston up there.
I think you're reading too much into it. Stark has never been a hater. Also, keep in mind Stark has historical ties to the Phillies.
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I think you're reading too much into it. Stark has never been a hater. Also, keep in mind Stark has historical ties to the Phillies.
i'd rather they ask for too much than settle for too little. they don't have to trade him.
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i'd rather they ask for too much than settle for too little. they don't have to trade him.
Exactly. There are BFiB's claiming that there is no way they should give up Shelby Miller straight up for him. If that is the though of front offices (which I highly, highly doubt), then keep him.
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Exactly. There are BFiB's claiming that there is no way they should give up Shelby Miller straight up for him. If that is the though of front offices (which I highly, highly doubt), then keep him.
The BFiB are claiming they should give up only a scrub or two AND demand the Astros pay Oswalt's salary. And can't figure out why the deal isn't done. BFiB.
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Stark nails it:
So obviously, a lot can change between now and Saturday afternoon. But remember those words: "The key is for Drayton to be able to brag about what he got." It's all about how high Drayton McLane draws The Brag Line now. And for the moment, that bar is set higher than any of these contestants can jump.
http://espn.go.com/mlb/notebook/_/id/5394903/countdown-trade-deadline
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That smells like a crock of shit to me. Fuck Jayson Stark and fuck ESPN. They don't call it The Brag Line when they negotiate their deals, do they? Or maybe they're so juvenile that they do, hunched over whatever Manly Drinks are in their pudgy, pasty hand in some faceless Marriott bar or local version of Tchotchke's. Assholes.
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That smells like a crock of shit to me. Fuck Jayson Stark and fuck ESPN. They don't call it The Brag Line when theuy negotiate their deals, do they?
If you don't think public perception of the deal isn't important to Drayton, then you haven't been paying attention to anything he's ever done as owner.
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How about this for bragging: "We cleared enough money in this deal (by taking the two scrubs for a complete wipe of Oswalt's salary off the books) in order to be aggressive this offseason in the free agent market!" (wink, wink: Carl Crawford). I think I would say that is Texas size braggin iffin you ask me!
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The knuckleheads on Sunday Night Baseball speculated the Angels may flip Haren, since a bat is what they really need.
I read into the Haren trade as not just a shot at maybe catching the Rangers but helping set them up for next season when their big bat returns. Unfortunately I don't see them catching the Rangers but they do have a past of late season surges while the Rangers seem to fall off.
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If you don't think public perception of the deal isn't important to Drayton, then you haven't been paying attention to anything he's ever done as owner.
Of course it's important. But it's bullshit to set up this whole straw man of The Brag Line while he hides behind his keyboard. Fuck him and and Fuck ESPN. This is a standard goddamn negotiation where both sides try to get the best deal they can. It isn't some fucking Peen-Off just because they say it is.
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How about this for bragging: "We cleared enough money in this deal (by taking the two scrubs for a complete wipe of Oswalt's salary off the books) in order to be aggressive this offseason in the free agent market!" (wink, wink: Carl Crawford). I think I would say that is Texas size braggin iffin you ask me!
There's already talk around the Angels camp about getting Carl Crawford in the off season. Torri Hunter is pushing for it.
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This is a standard goddamn negotiation where both sides try to get the best deal they can. It isn't some fucking Peen-Off just because they say it is.
Perfectly stated. The Astros organization is simply full of boobs, so why should they think they are being prudent in their negotiations? Remember how their idiot scouting dept made a mockery of the draft by "overreaching" for that Lyles kid? Why doesn't Ed Wade finally admit he has no idea what he's doing and tell the Cardinals he'd be happy to take Brendan Ryan, Jon Jay and any lower-tier throwaway prospect they might offer?
Losers.
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"There's already talk around the Angels camp about getting Carl Crawford in the off season. Torri Hunter is pushing for it."
My wife and her friends have been talking about new cars for about a year. She's pushing for a Toyota. Fact is, she's still driving the '03 Pathfinder and still will be this time next year.
In otherwords, until Torri is writing the checks, it doesn't fucking matter.
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How about this for bragging: "We cleared enough money in this deal (by taking the two scrubs for a complete wipe of Oswalt's salary off the books) in order to be aggressive this offseason in the free agent market!" (wink, wink: Carl Crawford). I think I would say that is Texas size braggin iffin you ask me!
I think you're expecting too much of the average fan -- too long of a disconnect between trade (July) and FA signing (winter). That's months of people complaining about how dumb the Astros are, how cheap Drayton is, etc.
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"There's already talk around the Angels camp about getting Carl Crawford in the off season. Torri Hunter is pushing for it."
My wife and her friends have been talking about new cars for about a year. She's pushing for a Toyota. Fact is, she's still driving the '03 Pathfinder and still will be this time next year.
In otherwords, until Torri is writing the checks, it doesn't fucking matter.
Except Arte Moreno talks to his main guys about this often and likes to go out and sign players similar to Carl Crawford. He has the money and will to do it.
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Rosenthal: Oswalt does not want to go to Philly (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/roy-oswalt-deal-looking-unlikely-72610)
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Rosenthal: Oswalt does not want to go to Philly (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/roy-oswalt-deal-looking-unlikely-72610)
I'm hearing rumours that he's now re-thinking wanting to be traded altogether. Word is, when confronted with the reality of it, he realized how good he has it here. Just rumours, but juneberno.
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Rosenthal: Oswalt does not want to go to Philly (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/roy-oswalt-deal-looking-unlikely-72610)
Oswalt's strong desire to take his talents to St. Louis pisses me off. LeBron prima donna bs. You'd think he'd hate the motherfuckin turds after all his time in the central, particularly after '04 and '05. I guess it has always been about Him.
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I'm hearing rumours that he's now re-thinking wanting to be traded altogether. Word is, when confronted with the reality of it, he realized how good he has it here. Just rumours, but juneberno.
Pissing all over your legacy is cause for reflection.
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Pissing all over your legacy is cause for reflection.
I suggest covering it with Chuck's hat first.
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I think you're reading too much into it. Stark has never been a hater. Also, keep in mind Stark has historical ties to the Phillies.
Stark/Gammons/Olney/Krjkzkjrkzcian and their entire band of sycophantic wannabes have been taking shots at the Astros ever since Houston had the audacity to invalidate Roger's triumphant Yankee retirement tour. Things that would be considered "curious" by just about any other franchise are blithely labeled as somewhere between "stubborn" and "stupid" when it involves the Astros. If Ted Lilly was considered the crown jewel out there, but Philadelphia thought the Cubs were asking too much, Stark would never casually refer to the Phillies telling the Cubs to "take a hike".
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Rosenthal: Oswalt does not want to go to Philly (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/roy-oswalt-deal-looking-unlikely-72610)
Fuck him then. He can "rot" in Houston until his contract is up.
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Oswalt's strong desire to take his talents to St. Louis pisses me off. LeBron prima donna bs. You'd think he'd hate the motherfuckin turds after all his time in the central, particularly after '04 and '05. I guess it has always been about Him.
All his talk about accepting a trade that helps the Astros sounds like bullshit now. How does trading him to a division rival help the Astros? If the Phillies give the same value as the Jakes in a trade, you gotta go with the Phillies.
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I predict everyone will talk in circles for most of the week, and Roy will get one more chance Thursday to tie the Astros' record for wins. Then a deal will get done Friday and he can go the fuck away.
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Pissing all over your legacy is cause for reflection.
Too late.
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I think you're expecting too much of the average fan -- too long of a disconnect between trade (July) and FA signing (winter). That's months of people complaining about how dumb the Astros are, how cheap Drayton is, etc.
Not really worried about the fans, just counter-acting the whole notion of "braggin" rights in a horse trade. A good horse trader might not mind trading away a gimpy one-time World Class racehorse (with an attitude) for a old nag just to have the money saved enable him/her to go buy another young stud in the process.
McLane is a good horse trader, a Texas tradition. Dumb pundits who think horse trading is all about the one-to-one trade-offs are just not aware how horse trades really go.
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I'm hearing rumours that he's now re-thinking wanting to be traded altogether. Word is, when confronted with the reality of it, he realized how good he has it here. Just rumours, but juneberno.
Limey? Is that you?
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I predict everyone will talk in circles for most of the week, and Roy will get one more chance Thursday to tie the Astros' record for wins. Then a deal will get done Friday and he can go the fuck away.
Agreed. I don't think Tal Smith would publicly concede that it's likely otherwise. That sounds more like resignation than pot-stirring. He's just waiting for the standings, injuries and desperation to all work themselves out. Should be fun to watch.
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I like how easy it is to completely ignore the fact that Drayton McLane Jr is a very accomplished business man and that Tal Smith is widely considered an expert on player valuation. Somehow, TV/Radio/Personality trumps their experience in trade negotiations and asset valuations.
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Somehow, TV/Radio/Personality trumps their experience in trade negotiations and asset valuations.
I don't think Stark is talking out of his ass. He's well connected.
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I don't think Stark is talking out of his ass. He's well connected.
You're exactly right. Many of those knuckleheads are not well plugged in, but Stark seems to be one who is.
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I don't think Stark is talking out of his ass. He's well connected.
That may be, but it doesn't mean he's not being used as a mouthpiece in a trade negotiation.
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You're exactly right. Many of those knuckleheads are not well plugged in, but Stark seems to be one who is.
Problem is, he may be *too* close to the Phillies. He sounds like a fan in some of his tweets; he sounds like us!
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I don't think Stark is talking out of his ass. He's well connected.
When I look at most of the rumors out there right now I read: "blah, blah, blah, posturing, blah, blah, blah, posturing, blah, blah" (or some variation thereof).
Everyone has an angle in this story, be it Roy trying to get to a certain team or get his option picked up; random GM speaking "on the condition of anonymity" to random national sportswriter trying to somehow move the talks in a certain direction; Wade posturing to get some other team in the mix or otherwise maximize his value, etc.
And not that I disbelieve Stark, as it is my impression that he is generally dialed in on PHI stuff, just not sure I trust the information that he is getting from his source(s), as who knows what version of 'spin' they are getting (or trying to promote) themselves...
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Rosenthal: Oswalt does not want to go to Philly (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/roy-oswalt-deal-looking-unlikely-72610)
So, no to the two-time defending NL champs, yes to the division rival. Got it.
Dick
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So, no to the two-time defending NL champs, yes to the division rival. Got it.
Dick
Joshua is getting some strange names in his family.
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Fuck him then. He can "rot" in Houston until his contract is up.
If something smells rotten, then you should've gotten...Vagisil !!
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Oswalt's strong desire to take his talents to St. Louis pisses me off. LeBron prima donna bs. You'd think he'd hate the motherfuckin turds after all his time in the central, particularly after '04 and '05. I guess it has always been about Him.
If you can't beat 'em...
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Who cares about what ESPN says?
The Astros either should trade Oswalt for guys who will help the team become a contender over the next decade, or they should hang onto Oswalt and either ride out his contract or trade him next offseason or next season. It is not the end of the world if Oswalt remains with the team.
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Who cares about what ESPN says?
The Astros either should trade Oswalt for guys who will help the team become a contender over the next decade, or they should hang onto Oswalt and either ride out his contract or trade him next offseason or next season. It is not the end of the world if Oswalt remains with the team.
This is spot on. It's almost as if the club is using the rumors to stay in the news and somehow that moving Oswalt is a foregone conclusion. I really objected to Tal Smith's comment about moving Oswalt because I think that it undercuts the team's leverage.
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This is spot on. It's almost as if the club is using the rumors to stay in the news and somehow that moving Oswalt is a foregone conclusion. I really objected to Tal Smith's comment about moving Oswalt because I think that it undercuts the team's leverage.
I think that what has most people on edge about this is that the longer one waits for a trade, the more likely it is that there is a decline in Oswalt's value. He's clearly on the downside of his career, and if he were to suffer a Berkman-like drop-off next year, he might even become untradeable. That's the risk that Wade assumes if no deal materializes this week. While Arky's certainly right that it wouldn't be the end of the world, I think it would qualify as an opportunity lost.
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According to Tom Verducci this morning (on the Dan Patrick show), Oswalt is all but a Phillie at this point. It would not surprise anyone (he said) if Oswalt is pitching for the Phils this weekend. The idea of Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt is just too much to pass up. The key is Jayson Werth. Ruben Amaro must trade him and get some prospects back to the Astros to make it work. Also, Verducci is sure that if Amaro gets the prospects that please the Astros, that they (the Astros) will help kick in some cayshe to make it happen. Verducci was asked about the comments that were attributed to Oswalt about not wanting to go to the East Coast and according to Verducci, that is all smoke and has no substance. Oswalt will go to a contender, but was willing to make a concession on the 12 million dollar option only for the Cardinals. Basically, the Cardinals don't believe it's true so they've been lowballing. This is the opportunity for the Phillies, who expect to send good prospects to Houston and in return get some cayshe to help offset the option year and please Oswalt.
Details, details, details. All the stuff about stubborn Oswalt, stupid Mclane, bumbling Wade and asleep at the wheel Smith seem for all the world to be non-issues.
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According to Tom Verducci this morning (on the Dan Patrick show), Oswalt is all but a Phillie at this point. It would not surprise anyone (he said) if Oswalt is pitching for the Phils this weekend. The idea of Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt is just too much to pass up. The key is Jayson Werth. Ruben Amaro must trade him and get some prospects back to the Astros to make it work. Also, Verducci is sure that if Amaro gets the prospects that please the Astros, that they (the Astros) will help kick in some cayshe to make it happen. Verducci was asked about the comments that were attributed to Oswalt about not wanting to go to the East Coast and according to Verducci, that is all smoke and has no substance. Oswalt will go to a contender, but was willing to make a concession on the 12 million dollar option only for the Cardinals. Basically, the Cardinals don't believe it's true so they've been lowballing. This is the opportunity for the Phillies, who expect to send good prospects to Houston and in return get some cayshe to help offset the option year and please Oswalt.
Details, details, details. All the stuff about stubborn Oswalt, stupid Mclane, bumbling Wade and asleep at the wheel Smith seem for all the world to be non-issues.
Nice of Roy to offer helping out the Astros' division rivals with his contract.
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The only reason I could think of for Tal to say it was almost a foregone conclusion that Roy would be traded is that he already had the mechanics of at least one deal in place, but meanwhile was hoping to sweeten the offer or get a better one. But he didn't have to pretend anymore that it might not happen. I just wonder what else they're getting directly from the Phillies in addition to what Werth garners from Tampa Bay or whoever; they're not simply trading Oswalt for Werth's value. Happ would seem to be involved if any of the other rumors hold, but the Astros were scouting the Phillies on the day before Happ pitched, so maybe another big leaguer would be part of the deal?
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The only reason I could think of for Tal to say it was almost a foregone conclusion that Roy would be traded is that he already had the mechanics of at least one deal in place, but meanwhile was hoping to sweeten the offer or get a better one. But he didn't have to pretend anymore that it might not happen. I just wonder what else they're getting directly from the Phillies in addition to what Werth garners from Tampa Bay or whoever; they're not simply trading Oswalt for Werth's value. Happ would seem to be involved if any of the other rumors hold, but the Astros were scouting the Phillies on the day before Happ pitched, so maybe another big leaguer would be part of the deal?
I read that Matt Galante scouted Happ on Sunday against the Rockies. I would be surprised if a deal between Houston and Philadelphia didn't include Happ seeing as how it was Ed Wade who drafted him in the third round of the 2004 draft.
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I read that Matt Galante scouted Happ on Sunday against the Rockies. I would be surprised if a deal between Houston and Philadelphia didn't include Happ seeing as how it was Ed Wade who drafted him in the third round of the 2004 draft.
Is Happ the center piece or just the major league talent portion of the trade?
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Is Happ the center piece or just the major league talent portion of the trade?
The center piece is Oswalt, but to answer your question I imagine it's probably the latter. Happ is decent, but the focal point will be the top prospect(s) included from the rumored third team.
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The center piece is Oswalt, but to answer your question I imagine it's probably the latter. Happ is decent, but the focal point will be the top prospect(s) included from the rumored third team.
Good.
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no deal is in the works as of 2 pm today. good source.
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no deal is in the works as of 2 pm today. good source.
As in, the Astros and Phils are not trying to work out a deal anymore at all, or just that they are not especially far along?
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dunno that detail
definite no deal now.
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Sounds like the Phils are assessing the realities surrounding a deal. May have to pass, thus relegating the Astros to just about nothing for Oswalt and the idea of keeping him around for the tenure of his contract and/or trade in the offseason more a reality for everyone, including Tal Smith and Roy Oswalt.
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As in, the Astros and Phils are not trying to work out a deal anymore at all, or just that they are not especially far along?
The Phils have gutted their farm system way too much in the recent past. They only have Dominic Brown left as a truly legit prospect. They can't bring themselves to trade Brown (nor should they be expected to at this point). So they have to look elsewhere to mine other prospects from other teams to flip them for Oswalt. That is the sticking point and may ultimately kill any deal.
May be just too much to ask of the Phils at this point.
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The Phils have gutted their farm system way too much in the recent past. They only have Dominic Brown left as a truly legit prospect. They can't bring themselves to trade Brown (nor should they be expected to at this point). So they have to look elsewhere to mine other prospects from other teams to flip them for Oswalt. That is the sticking point and may ultimately kill any deal.
May be just too much to ask of the Phils at this point.
Stark's column today said it's now unlikely the Phils will trade Werth for prospects, which then (as Noe noted) leaves them with not much to offer (certainly not without gutting their system completely). And if they were interested in emptying their system to win now, they would have kept Cliff Lee in the offseason.
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Stark's column today said it's now unlikely the Phils will trade Werth for prospects, which then (as Noe noted) leaves them with not much to offer (certainly not without gutting their system completely). And if they were interested in emptying their system to win now, they would have kept Cliff Lee in the offseason.
That pretty much signals the white flag on this deal happening. Looks for all the world like Oswalt will be pitching on Friday night and for every other turn he has left for the remainder of the season.
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Time for the Dodgers to swoop into a now-depressed market, or someone else to work a threeway with those Tampa Rays.
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Time for the Dodgers to swoop into a now-depressed market, or someone else to work a threeway with those Tampa Rays.
The deal is money. If the Astros pay cash in the Oswalt deal, then they rightfully expect good to great prospects. The only ones who got a reprieve on the cayshe is the Cardinals. They played it smart and said no to good to great prospects because of it. Plus they also did not believe the Astros were serious about a deal (it's the bait saying out loud "Hey, we're the bait!"). They, IMHO, were right to think so. All the other potential trade partners have to deal with Oswalt's demands more than the Cardinals did, which takes you back to dinero coming from the Astros.
If the Dodgers balked at giving up Loney or Kemp, then they better well produce some great prospects and/or be prepared to pay cayshe all on their own. Word is moola isn't something they can afford at this time and since the Astros know that, it's give up Loney or Kemp or no deal.
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The deal is money. If the Astros pay cash in the Oswalt deal, then they rightfully expect good to great prospects. The only ones who got a reprieve on the cayshe is the Cardinals. They played it smart and said no to good to great prospects because of it. Plus they also did not believe the Astros were serious about a deal (it's the bait saying out loud "Hey, we're the bait!"). They, IMHO, were right to think so. All the other potential trade partners have to deal with Oswalt's demands more than the Cardinals did, which takes you back to dinero coming from the Astros.
If the Dodgers balked at giving up Loney or Kemp, then they better well produce some great prospects and/or be prepared to pay cayshe all on their own. Word is moola isn't something they can afford at this time and since the Astros know that, it's give up Loney or Kemp or no deal.
I'm hoping the Yankees swoop in at the last moment in a "win one for the Boss" scenario. Starting to feel like the Astros and Roy are stuck with each other which, at this point, seems like an undesirable outcome for all parties.
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Time for the Dodgers to swoop into a now-depressed market, or someone else to work a threeway with those Tampa Rays.
I keep thinking the Twins will come in under the radar and steal him. They are supposedly killing it on the revenue side with the new Stadium.
Oh wait...let me guess...Roy prefers fishing bass vs. northern pike. Nevermind.
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The deal is money. If the Astros pay cash in the Oswalt deal, then they rightfully expect good to great prospects. The only ones who got a reprieve on the cayshe is the Cardinals. They played it smart and said no to good to great prospects because of it. Plus they also did not believe the Astros were serious about a deal (it's the bait saying out loud "Hey, we're the bait!"). They, IMHO, were right to think so. All the other potential trade partners have to deal with Oswalt's demands more than the Cardinals did, which takes you back to dinero coming from the Astros.
If the Dodgers balked at giving up Loney or Kemp, then they better well produce some great prospects and/or be prepared to pay cayshe all on their own. Word is moola isn't something they can afford at this time and since the Astros know that, it's give up Loney or Kemp or no deal.
I don't quite understand why they asked for Loney or Kemp in the first place; a) no contending team wants to give up major pieces of its lineup in-season, and b) those guys are going to be expensive (and/or free agents) by the time the Astros are close to good again anyway. Not to mention Loney seems like a good but not great 1B- .290 hitter, hits about 13 HR a year. I hope its not because he's from Houston.
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The only ones who got a reprieve on the cayshe is the Cardinals. They played it smart and said no to good to great prospects because of it.
Played it smart? Don't really agree that. Think it is more of a factor of being low in the good to great prospect department.
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I don't quite understand why they asked for Loney or Kemp in the first place; a) no contending team wants to give up major pieces of its lineup in-season, and b) those guys are going to be expensive (and/or free agents) by the time the Astros are close to good again anyway. Not to mention Loney seems like a good but not great 1B- .290 hitter, hits about 13 HR a year. I hope its not because he's from Houston.
i think a piece like the brendan ryan types (plus younger high end talent) would be reasonable as far so requesting something off the major league roster. as reuben said, what team wants to ship off major pieces when they are trying to improve?
i understand wanting players already on ML rosters, but is this just to tread water with the same core you have? i dont think this team gets drastically better until 45 is somewhere else, pence takes a drastic 180 at the plate and some of that young SP talent starts to hit Houston.
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i think a piece like the brendan ryan types (plus younger high end talent) would be reasonable as far so requesting something off the major league roster. as reuben said, what team wants to ship off major pieces when they are trying to improve?
i understand wanting players already on ML rosters, but is this just to tread water with the same core you have? i dont think this team gets drastically better until 45 is somewhere else, pence takes a drastic 180 at the plate and some of that young SP talent starts to hit Houston.
We already have Brendan Ryan. His name is Tommy Manzella.
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We already have Brendan Ryan. His name is Tommy Manzella.
can't disagree. i guess what i meant was to shoot for more realistic goals and not guys like matt kemp. i like loney, but he doesn't seem to have a position unless a companion deal moving berkman occurs.
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Oh wait...let me guess...Roy prefers fishing bass vs. northern pike. Nevermind.
That's a mistake. Northern pike is good eating.
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I don't have a problem with the club holding out until they get what they feel is a good enough offer. You can always deal Oswalt in the offseason. Also, I'd have to figure the Dodgers have a barren minor league system if the Astros want Kemp or Loney in return for Oswalt.
We shall see if somebody gets desperate enough to include sufficient talent by Saturday.
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Saw that the Twins asked about Lilly, but they are on his partial no-trade list, so who knows... seems like they're a team that could be lurking in the background on Oswalt (or Myers?).
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I don't have a problem with the club holding out until they get what they feel is a good enough offer. You can always deal Oswalt in the offseason. Also, I'd have to figure the Dodgers have a barren minor league system if the Astros want Kemp or Loney in return for Oswalt.
We shall see if somebody gets desperate enough to include sufficient talent by Saturday.
It's a delicate balance that I trust the Astros management is in the best position to navigate. If roy is going to be a bitch and quit on the team for the rest of the season, it's best to trade him now while at least he's having a solid year to avoid the "he's washed up" talk in the offseason. If he's reconsidered his stance and realizes it's best for him to continue to pitch his ass off regardless of location to earn that option year, it would probably be wise to hold on if the value isn't there on the trade market.
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Wow. Bored and looking for any kind of Astros-related trade talk, I stumbled into the Chronicle fan guy's blog, and lo and behold, amongst the usual plethora of awfulness in the reader comments, there was this nugget of rational, objective thought:
as for the trade deadline itself, I have read over and over about how bad Ed Wade is in trading, and how he will "panic" at the deadline and make poor moves. So I did a little research, and here is his record of trades the last week in July
2000, traded Schilling for Omar Daal, Nelson Figueroa, Travis Lee and Vincente Padilla. Obviously none of those guys were anywhere close to Schilling, but Padilla did give them 14 wins in both of the next two years and Daal won 13 himself that following season and Lee hit 20 dingers. So while you would rather have the HOF guy, this wasn't a terrible haul when he had to move salary
2002, traded Scott Rolen for Placido Polanco, Mike Timlin and Bud Smith. Rolen had a couple of really good years in St Louis and Polanco did the same in Philly, Timlin was great down the stretch for the Phils that year. Probably a good deal for both...
2008, Chad Reineke for Randy Wolf...this one speaks for itself in favor of Wade
2008, Matt Cusick for Latroy Hawkins. Hawkins was very good for us the rest of that year and the next. No idea what came of Cusick. Good Trade
Those are the only major deadline deals he has made, a few others of players of little significance either way...can't see any signs of panic there
And as for other deals he has made, I looked through every single deal he made and can't find a terrible one...some good, some bad, like most gm's...couple of really good ones..how about sending Duckworth, Buchholz and Zeke Astacio to the Astros for Billy Wagner!
Ed isn't the problem folks, its the owner who is constantly meddling with things instead of letting Ed Wade and his staff do their jobs.
Posted by: 1strosfan1 at July 27, 2010 11:49 PM
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Wow. Bored and looking for any kind of Astros-related trade talk, I stumbled into the Chronicle fan guy's blog, and lo and behold, amongst the usual plethora of awfulness in the reader comments, there was this nugget of rational, objective thought:
Sucks he tripped at the finish line
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OlneyTweets:
Heard this: The Astros are working very, very hard to work out something acceptable in order to move Roy Oswalt. But there are a lot of questions about how many teams would be interested, given all the dynamics -- the cost in prospects, '12 option.
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OlneyTweets:
Heard this: The Astros are working very, very hard to work out something acceptable in order to move Roy Oswalt. But there are a lot of questions about how many teams would be interested, given all the dynamics -- the cost in prospects, '12 option.
Wow I haven't heard that reported yet in the past few weeks.
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Sucks he tripped at the finish line
About Drayton? Not that different from a common sentiment here, although he doesn't mention Pam specifically, the dichotomy between the marketing segment and the "baseball" segment is implied, to me, when he says "let Ed Wade and his staff do their job".
(as opposed to the typical Chron commenter saying "Drayton is cheap" etc.).
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Pretty good summary by Ken R.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Phillies-could-get-Roy-Oswalt-and-still-keep-Jayson-Werth
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Pretty good summary by Ken R.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Phillies-could-get-Roy-Oswalt-and-still-keep-Jayson-Werth
Very very interesting that they've basically agreed on players if the Phil want to do it. mlb.com's Zolecki (http://zozone.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/07/victorino_brown_werth_and_oswa.html) also has some info:
The Phillies remain top contenders for Oswalt, although consummating a trade will be difficult before Saturday's 4 p.m. deadline. Sources said yesterday that Oswalt would waive his no-trade clause to play in Philadelphia, which echoed what Oswalt said Monday. Sources also said his $16 million club option for 2012 is not the sticking point it has been made to be, indicating Oswalt might not make the Phillies pick up the option, if it meant being traded or remaining in Houston.
...
It remains to be seen if the Phillies and Astros can agree on prospects. The Astros have scouted left-hander J.A. Happ, which indicates he could be part of the deal. Astros general manager Ed Wade personally scouted Class A Lakewood recently. (Hint, hint, they know the talent in Lakewood very well.)
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Interesting. Both those reports seem to conflict with what Coach reported yesterday, don't they?
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Sure sounds like the Phils organization has a divided house in terms of making the deal. What is boils down to is this:
1. Do we go and gut our minor league system yet again for the chance to go back to the World Series? (Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt almost assures the Phils of being the frontrunner).
2. Oswalt may waive his option being picked up automatically, which will help, plus the Astros will kick in a few mil if we provide the better of our prospects... if I am a minor league development guy, I'm saying "WTF!" to all this talk, followed by "Hell no, please don't do it!"
3. The idea that Werth can pull back prospect to either replenish the Phils system or flip to the Astros is now the least likely scenario of it all, so the Phils have to really think hard that they are about to gut the system yet again.
That makes it a really hard pill to swallow, so it's all about the Phils and not the Astros nor Oswalt at this point.
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Interesting. Both those reports seem to conflict with what Coach reported yesterday, don't they?
both of those reports are based on info obtained after the Phillies 3 pm conference call yesterday.
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Interesting. Both those reports seem to conflict with what Coach reported yesterday, don't they?
Not really, coach was reporting that the Phils were struggling with the idea of gutting themselves yet again and the chances were good it won't happen. As coach said, they were meeting at 3 pm to get all the organization in a call to help with the struggle they're having. They are not trading Werth to flip prospects. Oswalt will more than likely approve the deal and not ask for instant option guarantees. Given that and the fact the Astros will include cayshe (not a lot, but enough to insure good prospects in return), now it's all about "What we're about to do GentlePeople, is gut our system again... any problems with that?"
It is not an easy answer as it may seem.
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Sure sounds like the Phils organization has a divided house in terms of making the deal. What is boils down to is this:
1. Do we go and gut our minor league system yet again for the chance to go back to the World Series? (Halladay, Hamels, Oswalt almost assures the Phils of being the frontrunner).
2. Oswalt may waive his option being picked up automatically, which will help, plus the Astros will kick in a few mil if we provide the better of our prospects... if I am a minor league development guy, I'm saying "WTF!" to all this talk, followed by "Hell no, please don't do it!"
3. The idea that Werth can pull back prospect to either replenish the Phils system or flip to the Astros is now the least likely scenario of it all, so the Phils have to really think hard that they are about to gut the system yet again.
That makes it a really hard pill to swallow, so it's all about the Phils and not the Astros nor Oswalt at this point.
They could still deal Werth this winter to get some prospects back.
Wouldn't surprise me if the Rosenthal report is right that the players were Happ and 2 Lakewood guys. That's not exactly gutting their system further.
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Not really, coach was reporting that the Phils were struggling with the idea of gutting themselves yet again and the chances were good it won't happen. As coach said, they were meeting at 3 pm to get all the organization in a call to help with the struggle they're having. They are not trading Werth to flip prospects. Oswalt will more than likely approve the deal and not ask for instant option guarantees. Given that and the fact the Astros will include cayshe (not a lot, but enough to insure good prospects in return), now it's all about "What we're about to do GentlePeople, is gut our system again... any problems with that?"
It is not an easy answer as it may seem.
my info at 2 pm yesterday was that there was no deal on the table and there likely would be no deal. things can change, as Noe says. i have asked for a status report.
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They could still deal Werth this winter to get some prospects back.
Wouldn't surprise me if the Rosenthal report is right that the players were Happ and 2 Lakewood guys. That's not exactly gutting their system further.
Not necessarily about *two* Lakewood kids either. Just that one prospect will come from there and of course Haap is being mentioned. No one knows after that what is being asked for by the Astros. I think the Phils are indeed concerned about what they're about to give up for this chance to put together an awesome front three in the rotation. It can't be an easy decision for them to struggle like this otherwise. If it is easy, then the Phils should pull the trigger now, not jeopardize the deal at all.
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i have asked for a status report.
Thanks, I'll need that on my desk by 5.
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Thanks, I'll need that on my desk by 5.
yes, sir.
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This place rocks!
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Oswalt wants ample time to decide...If it was me, I'd of already discussed each city with my wife and made decisions.
http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/07/oswalt-eager-to-know-his-future.html
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Gosh, I just hope somebody can get their shit above The Brag Line before I get to the Marriott bar tonight.
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Oswalt wants ample time to decide...If it was me, I'd of already discussed each city with my wife and made decisions.
http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/07/oswalt-eager-to-know-his-future.html
fuck what he wants.
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fuck what he wants.
No shit. If I were Wade it'd go something like this:
"Roy, here's the deal for you...you want it? You've got 10 minutes to say yes or forever shut the fuck up".
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Of course, they might just want his sad ass out of town as soon as possible.
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fuck what he wants.
I know, this whole thing as really soured my opinion of Roy. To bad. He's actually going from, "Hey Roy, here's the keys to your new bull dozer." to, "Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out!" It's actually kind of sad.
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Oswalt didn't give any specifics, but said he doesn't want to be approached with a trade proposal only an hour before the 3 p.m. CT Deadline.
"Roy, we'd like to trade you to one of those contenders you told us you'd go to. Do you think you could tell us if you'd ok trading with New York, Los Angeles, Detroit, St. Louis, Atlanta, Philadelphia or Chicago?"
"Huh? You're springing this on me now? I need time to think about all this."
"Did...didn't you tell us already you'd be ok going to a contender?"
"I like St. Louis. Chicago would be ok. Atlanta would be good. I'm not saying it's ok to trade me to those places though."
"Well, which ones would you be ok with?"
"I don't know, I need time to think about it. You can't just spring this stuff on me at the last minute. I've got a start Friday night that I'm trying to prepare for."
"Goddammit you whiny fuck, tell us if we can trade with these teams!"
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Ed Wade: Roy can kiss my ass! LINK (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7128679.html)
"We'll use all the time allotted to us [by major league baseball]," Wade said. "If there's the right decision to be made sooner rather than later, we'll make it, otherwise, we'll use all the time available to try to make the right decisions."
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Roy is still an employee. Good to see Wade standing up for the team.
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sounds like wade is getting uppity about the deshields and oswalt negotiations. thankfully it looks like we might be getting close to a deal with the phillies.
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Victorino just went on the DL. Domonic Brown has been called up. It seems safe to assume Werth will not be traded. Hey, maybe the Phils will think that bolstering their staff is the only way to stay in the hunt now.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5417230
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Victorino just went on the DL. Domonic Brown has been called up. It seems safe to assume Werth will not be traded. Hey, maybe the Phils will think that bolstering their staff is the only way to stay in the hunt now.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5417230
That team has had some really lousy luck with injuries this year.
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Uncle D speaks (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7128679.html): "I'd say it's about 60 percent that something could be done and 40 percent that Roy will be here next year."
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Uncle D speaks (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7128679.html): "I'd say it's about 60 percent that something could be done and 40 percent that Roy will be here next year."
No, no, we're waiting for Jim's report from someone actually in the know.
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Uncle D speaks (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7128679.html): "I'd say it's about 60 percent that something could be done and 40 percent that Roy will be here next year."
Well if Roy stays in Houston I hope they give him and his wife ample time to discuss their future. He'll certainly need more than an hour's notice to unpack all the attitude and self-importance.
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He'll certainly need more than an hour's notice to unpack all the attitude and self-importance.
The offseason is only five months.
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No, no, we're waiting for Jim's report from someone actually in the know.
that little bit of sarcasm removed the TZ from the distribution list. should have known better anyway.
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Olney: philly/Oswalt deal would involve 3 or 4 teams.
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Rangers make offer for Roy
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/mlb/100728-cards-back-away-from-oswalt-trade-talks
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Rangers make offer for Roy
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/mlb/100728-cards-back-away-from-oswalt-trade-talks
THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME! Quit hassling Roy with all these decisions!
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I hope he doesn't get the win on Friday and gets traded Saturday. Going down as almost the winningest pitcher in Astros history seems like a fitting way for this to play out.
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Olney: philly/Oswalt deal would involve 3 or 4 teams.
Now Olney is saying that the third team pulled out and it's down to the Phillies dealing straight up with the Astros.
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THERE'S NOT ENOUGH TIME!
Roy's agent is Jack Bauer?
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Houston - Major League baseball sources told FOX 26 Sports the Houston Astros have a deal in place to trade pitcher Roy Oswalt to the Philadelphia Phillies if Oswalt agrees to waive his no-trade clause. Sources told FOX 26 the Astros have approached Oswalt. He is aware of the deal that is on the table and the club is waiting for his response. MLB sources told FOX 26 the Astros and Phillies have agreed on the amount of money Houston will take back in the deal and the two teams have agreed on the players Philadelphia will be sending.
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/mlb/100728-astros-await-oswalt%27s-ok-on-trade-to-phillies
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Reading Rosenthal's article concerns me. Perhaps the worst-case scenario here is that Drayton and Pam decide that they can only deal Oswalt if the trade includes some major-leaguers, so that next off-season they can try to go about selling tickets by promoting those guys as the new face of the team.
The goal here shouldn't be to get some guys in their late 20s approaching free agency with the thought that we can resume WIN-NOW status in 2011. The goal here should be to try to identify younger talent that projects to be in the starting line-up in 2012 at the earliest and maybe not until 2013.
Surely Tal and Ed grasp this, but if Drayton and Pam are still driving this Traveling Horseshit Show, then expect to swap Oswalt for some magic beans plus a couple of guys who will be overpriced, in decline or gone before this team is contending again. I would just as soon keep Oswalt until something better comes along.
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http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/mlb/100728-astros-await-oswalt%27s-ok-on-trade-to-phillies
Interesting. The Chronicle posted this about 30 minutes earlier, but it was probably written several hours before.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7128679.html
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Reading Rosenthal's article concerns me. Perhaps the worst-case scenario here is that Drayton and Pam decide that they can only deal Oswalt if the trade includes some major-leaguers, so that next off-season they can try to go about selling tickets by promoting those guys as the new face of the team.
The goal here shouldn't be to get some guys in their late 20s approaching free agency with the thought that we can resume WIN-NOW status in 2011. The goal here should be to try to identify younger talent that projects to be in the starting line-up in 2012 at the earliest and maybe not until 2013.
Surely Tal and Ed grasp this, but if Drayton and Pam are still driving this Traveling Horseshit Show, then expect to swap Oswalt for some magic beans plus a couple of guys who will be overpriced, in decline or gone before this team is contending again. I would just as soon keep Oswalt until something better comes along.
I'm just guessing, but J.A. Happ should be the only player coming to the Astros that falls under the Major League ready status. He would be under club control in both 2012 and 2013 as well.
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Interesting. The Chronicle posted this about 30 minutes earlier, but it was probably written several hours before.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/7128679.html
Actually came across the RSS about 8 hrs ago. Not sure why it has 11 PM 'time stamp'.
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Footer won't be able to confirm Berman story until tomorrow, but had this to say (via Twitter):
for what it's worth Berman is never wrong when he goes that far w/ his reporting. He is 100 % or he doesn't go with it.
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McTaggart passes along the Berman news, along with a 'no comment' from Wade. LINK (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100729&content_id=12760192&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou&partnerId=rss_hou)
When contacted late Wednesday, Astros general manager Ed Wade declined comment on trade discussions, and Oswalt could not be reached for comment.
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McTaggart passes along the Berman news, along with a 'no comment' from Wade. LINK (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100729&content_id=12760192&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou&partnerId=rss_hou)
When contacted late Wednesday, Astros general manager Ed Wade declined comment on trade discussions, and Oswalt could not be reached for comment.
Sounds like that could be it...
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How bad does Roy want to be a champion today?
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Sounds like that could be it...
One can only hope.....now Roy, how bad is playing for Houston now?
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Am guessing Wade will include a +1 in the deal (can't resist), and it will be Keppenger.
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Am guessing Wade will include a +1 in the deal (can't resist), and it will be Keppenger.
Since Puma's time in Houston will soon be up, would not be surprised to see the package include Singleton. Very impressive numbers for an 18 year old but being compared to Manny Ramirez at that age is questionable at best.
http://http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/players/playerpage/1754162/jonathansingleton
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Am guessing Wade will include a +1 in the deal (can't resist), and it will be Keppenger.
I picked a fine morning to give up coffee. Although there is this:
MLB sources told FOX 26 the Astros and Phillies have agreed on the amount of money Houston will take back in the deal and the two teams have agreed on the players Philadelphia will be sending.
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Fucking smart phones, how the fuck do teenagers do this shit?
Anyway, just heard Timmy Kurkjalphabet say on mike and mike that the two teams have agreed on players, just not $.
My question, did he not see the Berman report or does he just not believe it?
I only ask because Footer vouched for him, and if its good enough for Allyson, its good enough for me.
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Nm, Jayson Stark just confirmed the Berman report. Bye bye, Roy take you're Fucking panties with you!
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that little bit of sarcasm removed the TZ from the distribution list. should have known better anyway.
I could be wrong, but I read that as saying that Drayton was the one who didn't really know what was going on.
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Saw this elsewhere, no clue how true it is:
Phillies Receive:SP Roy Oswalt (Phils agree to renegotiate 2012 buyout from $2M to $5M)
2B/Utility Jeff Keppinger
Cash Consideration of $8M (roughly half of Oswalt’s remaining 2010 salary plus buyout)
Astros Receive:
1B Jon Singleton
P JP Happ
P Scott Mathieson
OF Anthony Gose
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I could be wrong, but I read that as saying that Drayton was the one who didn't really know what was going on.
As did I.
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Astros Receive:
1B Jon Singleton
P JP Happ
P Scott Mathieson
OF Anthony Gose
What does this mean for me?
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I could be wrong, but I read that as saying that Drayton was the one who didn't really know what was going on.
I was actually commenting on the mediots who think Drayton McLane is a doofus. It was all about slamming the pundits who like to criticize the owner (especially including certain sports personalities in this city) as being out of his league.
Anyway, didn't mean to direct it at either Drayton or Jim. Apologies if it was taken that way.
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What does this mean for me?
Look forward to the biggest highlight of the next two seasons being the June draft day.
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Alkie, it means that you cursed Chris Sampson into oblivion. Next time you want to wish someone into the cornfield, make it A-Rod.
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Nm, Jayson Stark just confirmed the Berman report. Bye bye, Roy take you're Fucking panties with you!
Most of you are happy to see Roy go, but I hate to see it. If these prospects are good it is good for the Astros in their current state. I realize that, but Roy did some good things for the Astros, all whining and sandy vaginaing aside.
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Saw this elsewhere, no clue how true it is:
Phillies Receive:SP Roy Oswalt (Phils agree to renegotiate 2012 buyout from $2M to $5M)
2B/Utility Jeff Keppinger
Cash Consideration of $8M (roughly half of Oswalt’s remaining 2010 salary plus buyout)
Astros Receive:
1B Jon Singleton (#3)
P JP Happ
P Scott Mathieson (#14)
OF Anthony Gose (#4)
No clue how credible this site is, if at all, but it ranks the above minor league players as shown. (LINK (http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-top-20-prospects-mid-season-2010/))
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Saw this elsewhere, no clue how true it is:
Phillies Receive:SP Roy Oswalt (Phils agree to renegotiate 2012 buyout from $2M to $5M)
2B/Utility Jeff Keppinger
Cash Consideration of $8M (roughly half of Oswalt’s remaining 2010 salary plus buyout)
Astros Receive:
1B Jon Singleton
P JP Happ
P Scott Mathieson
OF Anthony Gose
From a Philly Phansite linkage...http://www.thegoodphight.com/2010/5/24/1484067/phillies-prospect-roundup
Jonathan Singleton, 1B-L, Lakewood: Taken one round behind Colvin in last year's draft, Singleton is doing everything in his power to surpass him (and plenty of others) in prospect status. An 8-for-20 week brought the 18-year old's triple slash line up to .378/.478/.703 (in 46 PA), with fantastic plate discipline -- 17.4% BB, 24.3% K -- to boot. He's going to cool off at some point, but the strike zone control is for real, and the power (3 HR, .325 ISO) is coming along earlier than might be expected, making Singleton a prospect with serious helium right now.
Anthony Gose, OF-L, Clearwater: Gose keeps chugging along, plate discipline be damned. He had a hit in every game this week save for yesterday, with the 10-for-30 week boosting his May averages to a solid .283/.347/.424. He's still struggling to control the strike zone -- with a 5.5% BB and 26.2% K thus far on the season -- but at least his May (8.0% BB, 26.0% K) has been a touch better than his April (3.1% BB, 26.3% K) in that regard. Another area that could use some substantial improvement is his base stealing: 19 swipes in 31 attempts (a 61.3% success rate) is disappointing for a guy with Gose's speed.
Scott Mathieson, RHP, Lehigh Valley: Mathieson is officially at the "biding his time" stage. After surrendering just 1 hit in 2 innings this week while inducing 3 whiffs, he's sporting a 2.47 FIP and 23-to-6 strikeout-to-walk ratio in 20.2 innings. I can't imagine he wouldn't be a help to the big league pen at this point, but the Phillies are content to wait for an opening; if I were Bill Conlin (aka king of the world), I'd explore a deal with the Angels to send David Herndon down to hone his slider, and haul Mathieson up so the oft-injured righthander isn't wasting any more bullets in the minors.
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Astros to receive JA Happ - LP; Jonathan Singleton - 1B & Vance Worley - RP
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From a Philly Phansite linkage...http://www.thegoodphight.com/2010/5/24/1484067/phillies-prospect-roundup
Gose = Jay Austin
Singleton = what they want Telvin Nash to be
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Wait just a minute...Roy O...Roy Oswalt...*our* Roy Oswalt...in a deal with the Phillies?
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Wait just a minute...Roy O...Roy Oswalt...*our* Roy Oswalt...in a deal with the Phillies?
Don't worry, he's coming back. He wants to retire as an Astro.
ETA: And wear an Astro cap in Cooperstown.
Don't players get free tickets to the HOF?
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Wait just a minute...Roy O...Roy Oswalt...*our* Roy Oswalt...in a deal with the Phillies?
It cannot be. YOU LIE!!!
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Astros to receive JA Happ - LP; Jonathan Singleton - 1B & Vance Worley - RP
Left. Field.
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Left Field? Doesn't Cabrera play there?
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Justice has a different package coming in the deal:
Ed Wade appears to have done a decent job of getting prospects and a 27-year-old pitcher, J.A. Happ, for Roy Oswalt. These don't appear to be major league-ready prospects—1b Jonathan Singleton, RHP Vance Worley—but the Astros aren't going to contend for a year or two anyway.
Heyman tweeted that it's Happ, Worley, and a couple of prospects. That doesn't necessarily mean Singleton isn't one of the two, but he's not going to be a throw-in.
Brief scouting report on Worley:
Worley, a 22-year-old righty, spent most of 2010 at Double A, posting a 3.20 ERA, 6.6 K/9, and 2.9 BB/9. Baseball America ranked him 18th among Phillies prospects heading into the season, predicting a future as a back-end starter or middle reliever.
[Insert Ed Wade middle-reliever joke.]
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Left Field? Doesn't Cabrera play there?
Indeed. Also bats at the top of the order. The VERY top. Highlighted. With a push pin.
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Indeed. Also bats at the top of the order. The VERY top. Highlighted. With a push pin.
Yeah, but now it's locked.
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Yeah, but now it's locked.
Andy must be in another meeting and doesnt want anyone taking his guess for who the Astros will get in return.
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Done deal, or that's a guess?
And what do these players mean for me?
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And what do these players mean for me?
It will be about 10 years before the Yankees can sign any of them as free agents.
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At this point there are several guesses out there, some involving Singleton and Keppinger, some with different pitchers on the back end of the deal, etc. Haven't seen a real consensus on what the offer is beyond Oswalt and Happ, the rest is mixed up.
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It will be about 10 years before the Yankees can sign any of them as free agents.
I'm not sure where this idea started that I somehow harbor some sort of feelings (different than before) for the Yankees. If anything, living here makes me hate them even more.
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If anything, living here makes me hate them even more.
Which makes it so easy to give you shit.
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At this point there are several guesses out there, some involving Singleton and Keppinger, some with different pitchers on the back end of the deal, etc. Haven't seen a real consensus on what the offer is beyond Oswalt and Happ, the rest is mixed up.
Don't forget Brendan Ryan.
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I'm not sure where this idea started that I somehow harbor some sort of feelings (different than before) for the Yankees. If anything, living here makes me hate them even more.
I felt the same way when I lived there. Really, how can they never shut the fuck up and quit with the strange combination of arrogance/bitching why they can't be better? IS ONE BILLION CHAMPIONSHIPS not enough to pacify the fans for one fucking season where they don't sign every top free agent and then give the Pirates a cockslap to the face at the trade deadline and ask them to like it?
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Don't forget Brendan Ryan.
Don't forget Lastings Milledge.
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I felt the same way when I lived there. Really, how can they never shut the fuck up and quit with the strange combination of arrogance/bitching why they can't be better? IS ONE BILLION CHAMPIONSHIPS not enough to pacify the fans for one fucking season where they don't sign every top free agent and then give the Pirates a cockslap to the face at the trade deadline and ask them to like it?
My favorite is when Yankee fans bitch and whine about how they get no respect from the national media.
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Don't forget Lastings Milledge.
Ok, sure. We'll throw in Kenny Lofton.
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Which makes it so easy to give you shit.
If it makes you feel better, man, have at it.
It's not like I read it and get all hot and bothered and scream WHY YOU LITTLE...........
And in any case, what's the story on Worley? I read about the other two on the other thread.
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And in any case, what's the story on Worley? I read about the other two on the other thread.
Worley (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FJo_Anne_Worley&ei=UoxRTJaOJoP68AbJ46SiBA&usg=AFQjCNHMsKZzXNmKi_v1VMsuCMpSwasWbw)
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It's not like I read it and get all hot and bothered and scream WHY YOU LITTLE...........
This is exactly what I picture.
And in any case, what's the story on Worley? I read about the other two on the other thread.
Heyman says he projects as end-of-rotation starter or middle relief, meaning he's a likely ace.
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Worley (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBwQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FJo_Anne_Worley&ei=UoxRTJaOJoP68AbJ46SiBA&usg=AFQjCNHMsKZzXNmKi_v1VMsuCMpSwasWbw)
RIP My Boner
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Is Ed Wade physically and emotionally incapable of dealing with a team other than the Phillies?
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RIP My Boner
That's OK, I'm sure HH has been harboring some bizarre fetish for her for years.
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Is Ed Wade physically and emotionally incapable of dealing with a team other than the Phillies?
He got Jeff Keppinger, smiter of bitches, from the Reds.
But yes, this is a repeat of the Randy Smith-era Tigers/Padres dealings.
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Is Ed Wade physically and emotionally incapable of dealing with a team other than the Phillies?
Looking at some of the Phillie boards you could also get the impression that he knows how to Jedi Mind Trick Amaro, but only Amaro.
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Is Ed Wade physically and emotionally incapable of dealing with a team other than the Phillies?
If only the D-backs were in contention, then he could have dealt with them.
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Looking at some of the Phillie boards
is an even worse idea than looking at BFiB boards.
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That's OK, I'm sure HH has been harboring some bizarre fetish for her for years.
Is she a featured person on a TV show with her name in the title? Does she have large nostrils or oddly set eyes or possibly a shrill voice?
My god, man, you're right.
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is an even worse idea than looking at BFiB boards.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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is an even worse idea than looking at BFiB boards.
Yeah, it's about half a tick up from the Chronicle commenters.
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That's OK, I'm sure HH has been harboring some bizarre fetish for her for years.
Jo Ann Worley, cream cheese, palm fronds, Mindy Sterling reading aloud from The Vault of Fear, and a sweat lodge.
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Of course, there's more (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pruYLmuEbjg).
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Looking at some of the Phillie boards you could also get the impression that he knows how to Jedi Mind Trick Amaro, but only Amaro.
I'm not sure that's terribly far from the truth.
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OK, maybe this is a dumb question, but why didn't the Phillies just keep Cliff Lee for money and not lose prospects?
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OK, maybe this is a dumb question, but why didn't the Phillies just keep Cliff Lee for money and not lose prospects?
And they call Ed Wade dumb.
All of Phillie Phandom and most of the rest of MLB fans are asking the same question.
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OK, maybe this is a dumb question, but why didn't the Phillies just keep Cliff Lee for money and not lose prospects?
Whew. It wasn't just me.
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And they call Ed Wade dumb.
All of Phillie Phandom and most of the rest of MLB fans are asking the same question.
Oh, sorry. Don't read other boards to see what they are saying. It was just me wondering.
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Hey, remember the time the Astros almost hired Amaro Jr to be OUR GM? Good times.
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It's a pretty amazing example of how to gut a franchise of prospects.
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Hey, remember the time the Astros almost hired Amaro Jr to be OUR GM? Good times.
Ugh. Forgot about that one.
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Philly Radio mentioned the first base prospect might be Matthew R. Rizzotti
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=1B&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=447832
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Throw him back.
Name doesn't start with a B.
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Philly Radio mentioned the first base prospect might be Matthew R. Rizzotti
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?pos=1B&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=447832
Sounds considerably less appealing than Singleton, despite his lofty numbers this year. Then again, what the hell do I know about either of 'em.
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Sounds considerably less appealing than Singleton, despite his lofty numbers this year. Then again, what the hell do I know about either of 'em.
I'm saving this one in my file.
In 10 years when Rizzotti is a perennial All Star and Singleton is selling him shoes/insurance, you can expect to see this post again.
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I can tell you what the Phillies said in ST re Lee: we could not afford both Lee and Halladay, and we preferred Hallady. They already had approached Lee re an extension.
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I will say, if the Phils make the playoffs, I'm not sure anyone wants to face their Double Barrel Roy-Gun.
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I will say, if the Phils make the playoffs, I'm not sure anyone wants to face their Double Barrel Roy-Gun.
Wait until they get a burst from the Whine Roy.
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I will say, if the Phils make the playoffs, I'm not sure anyone wants to face their Double Barrel Roy-Gun.
I'm sure there will be no Oswalt Innings (tm) in the pitcher's paradise that is Citizens Bank Park.
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I will say, if the Phils make the playoffs, I'm not sure anyone wants to face their Double Barrel Roy-Gun.
Well, the Sox
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I can tell you what the Phillies said in ST re Lee: we could not afford both Lee and Halladay, and we preferred Hallady. They already had approached Lee re an extension.
Halladay certainly has the longer track record, and he's more of a horse than Lee. Then again, Lee had proven he could pitch in Philly's park, and could excel in the playoffs.
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Any word on how long Roy has to decide? If you're Roy, do you want to take a stab at the Astros win record tomorrow, then announce? If you're the Astros, do you want risk him getting injured and blowing the whole deal? If you're the Phillies, do you want him to decide before he pitches another questionable game for the Astros that might make the natives even more restless?
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The rumor is 1pm EST. though philly radio just said there is no deadline
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Unless he flat-out rejects the deal before his start, there's no way he pitches in an Astros uni tomorrow.
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Another silly philly radio rumor. Drayton and owner of the phillies are currently haggling over the money part of the deal.
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Another silly philly radio rumor. Drayton and owner of the phillies are currently haggling over the money part of the deal.
In reality, it's that Philly wants Drayton to start carrying pre-made cheese steak subs in all of his grocery stores. Its probably just a question of how many subs at this point.
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ESPN Insider via MLBTR:
Jayson Stark emails that he's confirmed some other details. One is that Houston would get three players back -- J.A. Happ and two prospects. Nobody is revealing names of the prospects, but Houston has pressed hard for Phillies' best hitting prospect now that Domonic Brown is in the big leagues, Class A first baseman Jonathan Singleton.
Stark also heard from one strong source that the Astros offered to pay $12 million of the $23-plus million left on Oswalt's contract through next year. No confirmation that this is the exact figure.
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For $12MM, the 'Stros ought to be able to pillage the Phils' farm system like a marauding viking.
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For $12MM, the 'Stros ought to be able to pillage the Phils' farm system like a marauding viking.
"What's in your farmsystem?"
Jackastro we need a graphic of Ed Wade as one of the capitol one vikings. - please!
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"What's in your farmsystem?"
Jackastro we need a graphic of Ed Wade as one of the capitol one vikings. - please!
And make me cute this time. With big tits and a hot lesbian lover.
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For $12MM, the 'Stros ought to be able to pillage the Phils' farm system like a marauding viking.
No f'ing kidding! If that figure is accurate, geez-us.
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No f'ing kidding! If that figure is accurate, geez-us.
For $12mm, I would have thought the Astros would have been in play for Brown (pre-Victorino DLing). JA Happ and a couple single A prospects doesn't make sense.
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If the Astros get Haap, Worley and Singleton, then they've done really good for such a hard deal to consumate.
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According to philly radio, Stark tweeted Roy says he will okay the deal
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verified via the interwebs
http://twitter.com/jaysonst
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If Drayton is sending them 11 million AND Roy, we better be getting Happ, Singleton, Cosart, and a handjob.
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For today's day and age, it's amazing the 2 prospects names haven't leaked yet. Though Crapenthol says Singleton is not one of the prospects.
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Well the rumor seems to be Gose and Worley are your 2 prospects.
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Well the rumor seems to be Gose and Worley are your 2 prospects.
Plus 11 million going to the Phillies?
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According to Philly radio, it's pending physicals now.
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Does this mean we are no longer a Hap-less franchise?
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Does this mean we are no longer a Hap-less franchise?
Boooooooo
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What's the scouting report on Happ?
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No heir apparant to Berkman in deal apparantly. Kind of got my hopes up there.
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No heir apparant to Berkman in deal apparantly. Kind of got my hopes up there.
Sucks if true. Singleton would have made this deal a lot more attractive, given the $$$.
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No heir apparant to Berkman in deal apparantly. Kind of got my hopes up there.
Singleton's name keeps creeping in and out of the deal. If they're sending $11 million I would expect he's included.
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It would be interesting to know the genesis of all the rumors. They are all over the map.
Is the situation really that fluid? Planned stuff designed to control expectations? "Sources" that just like to fuck with people?
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Are the O's Bros included in the deal?
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Are the O's Bros included in the deal?
If the Phillies take them, they will also receive two free Oswalt innings
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If the Phillies take them, they will also receive two free Oswalt innings
I say we toss in the Little Pumas too.
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I can't keep track of all this shit. Is Kepp still rumored to be in the deal, along with 11 million?
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It would be interesting to know the genesis of all the rumors. They are all over the map.
Is the situation really that fluid? Planned stuff designed to control expectations? "Sources" that just like to fuck with people?
Why should this story be any different than any other that involves a lot of interest?
The answers to your questions are: "probably not", "sort of", and "quite possibly". The planned stuff is probably designed more to affect the market than to control expectations, although it would be scary to find out there are actually front office folks crazy enough to put any stock in the internet rumor mill.
I think it's funny when, after it's all said and done, you get the inevitable "I got it from a reliable source!". I wonder if any one of these guys has ever stripped a source of their "reliable" tag. I doubt it.
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I can't keep track of all this shit. Is Kepp still rumored to be in the deal, along with 11 million?
I haven't heard Kepp involved since this morning
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I haven't heard Kepp involved since this morning
That's good to hear, thanks.
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Sounds like Happ and Gose are close to confirmed at this point. Several sites saying Worley is the 3rd and final player, though Ed Price (https://twitter.com/ed_price/status/19844652803) (via astroscounty) says he has two sources saying Singleton is in.
From what I've read, we should be excited if Singleton is The Third Man, bummed if its Worley.
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I love Kepp on the team too, but if it takes Kepp to get Singleton in the deal, I am not going to miss Kepp that much.
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Price tempers his tweet by noting that his two sources are not involved in the trade.
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Friend is saying per ESPN:
Roy Oswalt and Hunter Pence + $11 million dollars to the Philles for J.A. Happ, Jayson Werth, and SIngle-A player 1B Jonathan Singleton
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I love Kepp on the team too, but if it takes Kepp to get Singleton in the deal, I am not going to miss Kepp that much.
I agree, though I would definitely miss Kepp. My concern was the possibility of sending him, Oswalt, and half his remaining salary, and not getting back the prospects that they're targeting.
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Friend is saying per ESPN:
Roy Oswalt and Hunter Pence + $11 million dollars to the Philles for J.A. Happ, Jayson Werth, and SIngle-A player 1B Jonathan Singleton
WHA???
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Friend is saying per ESPN:
Roy Oswalt and Hunter Pence + $11 million dollars to the Philles for J.A. Happ, Jayson Werth, and SIngle-A player 1B Jonathan Singleton
Ha, stop teasing
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Friend is saying per ESPN:
Roy Oswalt and Hunter Pence + $11 million dollars to the Philles for J.A. Happ, Jayson Werth, and SIngle-A player 1B Jonathan Singleton
WOW
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It was a joke.
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my bad. i made the mistake of thinking this is a serious thread.
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Friend is saying per ESPN:
Roy Oswalt and Hunter Pence + $11 million dollars to the Philles for J.A. Happ, Jayson Werth, and SIngle-A player 1B Jonathan Singleton
Throw in those other couple of pitchers being mentioned and I would be ok with this trade. Too bad.
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It was a joke.
Good one?
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Crapenthol switching from Worley to some shortstop Jonathan Villar. Philly radio says he has a mere 43 errors this year.
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Good one?
Ehh. He got me.
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Crapenthol switching from Worley to some shortstop Burling or something?
He's worthless... no way some dickhead keeps leaving every time a different player is mentioned and texts it to him.
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Ehh. He got me.
Tell him to include blonds, aggies, religious figures, animals and/or a bar setting next time. And punch him in the throat.
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Man, this thing is all over the place. Now the Philly Enquirer is reporting Gose, Happ and Villan.
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Man, this thing is all over the place. Now the Philly Enquirer is reporting Gose, Happ and Villan.
picking names out of a hat?
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Man, this thing is all over the place. Now the Philly Enquirer is reporting Gose, Happ and Villan.
In other words, they're all guessing. Why don't they just sit down, have a beer, and then report the real deal when Amaro tells them in the press conference?
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In other words, they're all guessing. Why don't they just sit down, have a beer, and then report the real deal when Amaro tells them in the press conference?
There's no way that the deal is changing that much. I wonder where all this noise is coming from.
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Man, this thing is all over the place. Now the Philly Enquirer is reporting Gose, Happ and Villanr.
MLB network saying this is the deal.
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There's no way that the deal is changing that much. I wonder where all this noise is coming from.
Has to be Inception. Look around you. Notice how strange this trade seems. You're dreaming!
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No cash mentioned.
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MLB network saying this is the deal.
Well, fuck.
That's a real disappointment after mentioning Singleton.
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Meanwhile, Stark has been curiously silent for the past two hours. These days, that's equivalent to a full news cycle. He must be aware of all the "noise" out there but also doesn't have the definitive list.
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Villar is a 19 year old shortstop with A-ball Lakewood, who's hit .272/.332/.358 with 38 stolen bases. He's known for his defense and his subpar plate discipline has been exposed against Sally League competition, but he's still managed to hold his own as a teenager, and is a fringe top-10 organizational prospect.
SBNation (http://www.sbnation.com/2010/7/29/1594888/roy-oswalt-trade-jonathan-villar-phillies)...just what came up in Google
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No cash mentioned.
This deal seems right with no cash. Astros throw in $11mm, and it starts to not make sense. I hate the twitter era.
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Has to be Inception. Look around you. Notice how strange this trade seems. You're dreaming!
Think about it. Do you remember how this deal came together?
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If the deal reported by MLB network is true, we've been screwed.
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Great, now MLB takes us to Pinwheel for the inside scoop...facepalm
who says we are still sending $11 million with Roy...I'm on a horse
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Two fast glove guys who can't really hit and a #3 who has been hurt most of the year. All cheap, the prospects are young. Crap, I was excited about Singleton.
So much for that Jedi Mind Trick shit.
ETA: Tags tweets that Oswalt has approved the trade.
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Maybe they told Wade will give you Jonathan and he said deal.
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Think about it. Do you remember how this deal came together?
Have you seen the graphic "explaining" the "kicks" in Inception? Made me think of the In-game Snack Spectrum.
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Meanwhile, Stark has been curiously silent for the past two hours.
As has Footer.
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Two fast glove guys who can't really hit and a #3 who has been hurt most of the year. All cheap, the prospects are young. Crap, I was excited about Singleton.
So much for that Jedi Mind Trick shit.
ETA: Tags tweets that Oswalt has approved the trade.
And that #3 will be on the wrong side of 30 by the time we are ready to compete. To go along with his injury issues.
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Stark now on ESPNews with the official deal.
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I am in favor of starting a FireEdWade.com if this is the haul for Roy Oswalt and $11MM.
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Phillies increase the buyout on his option to $3M from $2M. Happ is the ROY runner up, Bose is very fast. No word on how much (if any?) $ the Astros are kicking in.
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Phillies increase the buyout on his option to $3M from $2M. Happ is the ROY runner up, Bose is very fast. No word on how much (if any?) $ the Astros are kicking in.
So then he doesn't know who the third player is yet either?
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We're going to corner the market on up the middle players who can't hit and have terrible plate discipline.
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The Dbacks seem to have gotten more for Haren without throwing in $11mm (based on internet prospect projecting). Who knows though Gose and Villar could be Kemp and Andrus one day for all I know.
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Phillies increase the buyout on his option to $3M from $2M. Happ is the ROY runner up, Bose is very fast. No word on how much (if any?) $ the Astros are kicking in.
Pinwheel said $11 million on MLB network, while standing inside MMPUS.
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Gose went from 76 steals/20 caught last year to 36 steals/27 caught this year That is just odd.
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Who knows though Gose and Villar could be Kemp and Andrus one day for all I know.
That's the stance I'm going to take. I'm happy with got a SP that's MLB ready and I'm happy Drayton was will to pay to get Roy shipped out. I know one thing...Heck and company are on board so I'm feeling better than I ever would have before about these prospects.
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If the Astros just swapped Oswalt and $11MM for Happ, Gose and Villar, they have been officially anally raped without lube.
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If the Astros just swapped Oswalt and $11MM for Happ, Gose and Villar, they have been officially anally raped without lube.
This.
I don't get this deal. Why not use that money in Latin America?
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If the Astros just swapped Oswalt and $11MM for Happ, Gose and Villar, they have been officially anally raped without lube.
Agreed.
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If the Astros just swapped Oswalt and $11MM for Happ, Gose and Villar, they have been officially anally raped without lube.
100% agree.
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If the Astros just swapped Oswalt and $11MM for Happ, Gose and Villar, they have been officially anally raped without lube.
Yeah. If it was Singleton and $11M, it still wouldn't be a good deal but that much money and two JAGs just doesn't make sense.
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This.
I don't get this deal. Why not use that money in Latin America?
Where at least there's lube.
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Here's something else that makes zero sense...per ESPN:
"Oswalt did not demand that his 2012 mutual option for $16 million be picked up by the Phillies, a baseball source told ESPN.com's Amy K. Nelson. Instead, if either he or the Phillies chose not to pick it up, his $1 million buyout will increase to $2 million.
If Oswalt or the Phillies decline to exercise the option, then the pitcher will make $18 million next season. But both Oswalt and the Phillies must agree on the option for 2012 for him to stay with the team that season, the source told Nelson."
What the fuck does this mean?
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That's the stance I'm going to take. I'm happy with got a SP that's MLB ready and I'm happy Drayton was will to pay to get Roy shipped out. I know one thing...Heck and company are on board so I'm feeling better than I ever would have before about these prospects.
Sorry, but I disagree. The Astros needed to get Singleton in the trade or tell the Phillies to Phuck off. Then, on top of that, they donate 11 million dollars for a middling prospect package and a number 3/4 starter. They did not have to trade Roy now, not with him under contract through at least next season.
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They'll re-sign/exercise the option on Myers and claim we are going to compete for championships with Happ, Myers, Wandy headlining our pitching staff and Pence headlining our offense.
We should trade everyone on the team for prospects right now.
Getting Happ is a joke. He is or will shortly be arbitration eligible.
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They'll re-sign/exercise the option on Myers and claim we are going to compete for championships with Happ, Myers, Wandy headlining our pitching staff and Pence headlining our offense.
We should trade everyone on the team for prospects right now.
Getting Happ is a joke. He is or will shortly be arbitration eligible.
ok, now be quiet.
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Sorry, but I disagree. The Astros needed to get Singleton in the trade or tell the Phillies to Phuck off. Then, on top of that, they donate 11 million dollars for a middling prospect package and a number 3/4 starter. They did not have to trade Roy now, not with him under contract through at least next season.
Plus, we don't know Heck & Co. are on board with this.
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Here's something else that makes zero sense...per ESPN:
"Oswalt did not demand that his 2012 mutual option for $16 million be picked up by the Phillies, a baseball source told ESPN.com's Amy K. Nelson. Instead, if either he or the Phillies chose not to pick it up, his $1 million buyout will increase to $2 million.
If Oswalt or the Phillies decline to exercise the option, then the pitcher will make $18 million next season. But both Oswalt and the Phillies must agree on the option for 2012 for him to stay with the team that season, the source told Nelson."
What the fuck does this mean?
Wait I second... you don't unequivocally know?
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Here's something else that makes zero sense...per ESPN:
"Oswalt did not demand that his 2012 mutual option for $16 million be picked up by the Phillies, a baseball source told ESPN.com's Amy K. Nelson. Instead, if either he or the Phillies chose not to pick it up, his $1 million buyout will increase to $2 million.
If Oswalt or the Phillies decline to exercise the option, then the pitcher will make $18 million next season. But both Oswalt and the Phillies must agree on the option for 2012 for him to stay with the team that season, the source told Nelson."
What the fuck does this mean?
He gets $16MM next year no matter what. If it's his last year (he declines or they decline 2012) he gets an extra $2MM and is done. If, though, they both decide to go again in 2012, he'll get just the $16MM for 2011 and then another $16MM in 2012
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Wait I second... you don't unequivocally know?
I know that if the option is not picked up, Oswalt becomes a free agent. How he can do that and the Phillies/Astros *still* owe him $18MM is a mystery.
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We're going to corner the market on up the middle players who can't hit and have terrible plate discipline.
do you do anything but bitch? take 3 seconds and tell me everything you like. that should be plenty of time.
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I guarantee you Drayton will say some bullshit about us competing for championships.
We should have started rebuilding once Clemens and Pettite left. Instead we waste time and money on washed up or soon to be washed up veterans to pretend we actually can compete.
I am beyond pissed right now.
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Ladies and gentlemen, your Houston Royals.
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Jesus, who spilled the whine?
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He gets $16MM next year no matter what. If it's his last year (he declines or they decline 2012) he gets an extra $2MM and is done.
The $2MM buyout doesn't count towards next year, if that's what they're trying to say. They should have simply stopped at "$2MM buyout for 2012".
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do you do anything but bitch? take 3 seconds and tell me everything you like. that should be plenty of time.
Sorry, just venting. This deal blows. I won't post any more about this.
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Ladies and gentlemen, your Houston Royals.
It's not THAT bad.
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I know that if the option is not picked up, Oswalt becomes a free agent. How he can do that and the Phillies/Astros *still* owe him $18MM is a mystery.
Damn it man, at least pretend to have unwavering belief in your understanding of it. You're fucking up my whole worldview.
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They'll re-sign/exercise the option on Myers and claim we are going to compete for championships with Happ, Myers, Wandy headlining our pitching staff and Pence headlining our offense.
We should trade everyone on the team for prospects right now.
Getting Happ is a joke. He is or will shortly be arbitration eligible.
I don't have a problem getting Happ, and he should have at least one year before becoming arbitration eligible. He's a solid middle of the rotation arm. But I was hoping he'd be the 2nd piece in the deal, with Singleton as the centerpiece. Especially when you basically pay for Oswalt to play in Philadelphia next season.
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happ-i am guessing to replace roy on the active roster.
gose-replace bourn? maybe the FO has something in mind with pence or lee in the offseason.
villar-maybe you move him to 2B, but that's why you drafted deshields, right?
singleton sounded like the real jewel of a proposed deal, but i had really never heard of anyone but happ before all of this speculation started. i am guessing they were highly regarded by the scouts.
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Damn it man, at least pretend to have unwavering belief in your understanding of it. You're fucking up my whole worldview.
Sorry, I'll pound the table the next time I rant.
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I don't like the trade now but I reserve the right to change my opinion in the future.
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happ-i am guessing to replace roy on the active roster.
gose-replace bourn?
Wait...time out...why do they need to replace Bourn on the active roster? What did I miss last night while I was out drinking?
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Gose is just a speedy glove guy in CF. I think he's a top-25 guy in the Phillies org. Not a replacement for Bourn unless all hell breaks loose in every direction.
There are comps to Bourn, but Gose doesn't hit as well, if that tells you anything.
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Has the money transfer been confirmed, or is that just a remnant of all the rumors?
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I'm missing where the prospects are official in anyway?
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Wade, Heck, etc have scouted the hell out of these guys.
So either they really believe in them, or Drayton is pulling some serious strings on this.
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This blows, but to be honest I was expecting a deal like this.
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This blows, but to be honest I was expecting a deal like this.
of course, you did.
see you guys later after you have voted and hired a new GM.
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good grief the stove zone whatever is smoking. a new day has dawned and you can see the astros in the distance
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Has the money transfer been confirmed, or is that just a remnant of all the rumors?
I haven't seen anyone mention anything other than 'a portion' of Roy's contract to be paid by the Astros. If it's a couple million or so it makes a lot more sense but hell, what do I know? We'll know in five years.
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I seem to recall something about Singleton not being eligible to be in a trade until he is under club control for 1 yr. He was drafted last year and signed late, IIRC. So it MIGHT be that Singleton cannot be officially added to this trade until later, thus why people are not listing him. Perhaps there will be the infamous PTBNL in this trade that will be Singleton once his year in the Philly organization is reached.
Just something to think about....
btw, I have no access to media other than here and on internet as I am at work. So this is speculation on my part.
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good grief the stove zone whatever is smoking. a new day has dawned and you can see the astros in the distance
Finally, the voice of reason.
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If the Astros just swapped Oswalt and $11MM for Happ, Gose and Villar, they have been officially anally raped without lube.
It's certainly a disappointing outcome, but that's the breaks of having no trade leverage and a lose-lose contract situation.
By all accounts, the Phillies were the only team that remained even moderately interested in Roy O. based on the salary implications, and it made no sense to keep him on the roster and dump another ~$20MM+ into a single player when the team is fundamentally incapable of playing competitive baseball for the foreseeable future.
The organization is a no-win situation right now, and the smart (albeit painful) decision was to take the financial hit on Oswalt and try and get back whatever else was available in the way of prospects. Unfortunately, there was only one team who was willing truly willing to play ball here, so no one should be surprised with what the team ultimately received in return, including the money that had to be eaten...there was no other realistic option.
If Roy O. was an impending FA the situation would have been different, but that $16MM + buyout aren't going anywhere, and there's no legitimate reason to believe that the trade options would've been any more desirable if the team waited until this Winter to dump him...especially given the risk of injury and/or late-season struggles. The notion of getting anything better than .40 on the dollar was just not realistic under the current circumstances.
I personally am relieved that this chapter is finally done and an actual rebuilding initiative appears to be in progress.
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""It feels pretty good actually to have al of this stuff out of the way and I can concentrate on baseball," Oswalt said, according to the report.
Oswalt, who said he will pitch for the Phillies on Friday, said he loved his time in Houston but felt it was time to do make a change.
"I love the city of Houston and the Astros fans," Oswalt said, according to the report. "They have been great to me and the Astros are a great organization. I think it's time for us to separate and do something different.
"Philly has a great team with a chance to go to the World Series. I wanted this deal to be good for both the Astros and me and I think it is," he said, according to the report. "
ESPN.com
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Here's something else that makes zero sense...per ESPN:
"Oswalt did not demand that his 2012 mutual option for $16 million be picked up by the Phillies, a baseball source told ESPN.com's Amy K. Nelson. Instead, if either he or the Phillies chose not to pick it up, his $1 million buyout will increase to $2 million.
If Oswalt or the Phillies decline to exercise the option, then the pitcher will make $18 million next season. But both Oswalt and the Phillies must agree on the option for 2012 for him to stay with the team that season, the source told Nelson."
What the fuck does this mean?
Are you serious? It's perfectly obvious. If the 2012 mutual option isn't picked up, than the team buys out the option. The phillies agreed to increase that buyout. This is really standard.
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Wait...time out...why do they need to replace Bourn on the active roster? What did I miss last night while I was out drinking?
sorry. just thought he might replace bourn if he was deemed too expensive in the offseason. i'd prefer to keep him and move lee or pence.
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see you guys later after you have voted and hired a new GM.
Do you have the address for that internet vote?
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It's certainly a disappointing outcome, but that's the breaks of having no trade leverage and a lose-lose contract situation.
They had all the leverage in the world. Get what you want or don't make the deal. The Astros did not have to trade Oswalt.
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sorry. just thought he might replace bourn if he was deemed too expensive in the offseason. i'd prefer to keep him and move lee or pence.
Bourn isn't going anywhere, unless he gets elevated to Face of The Franchise.
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Wade, Heck, etc have scouted the hell out of these guys.
So either they really believe in them, or Drayton is pulling some serious strings on this.
It is hard for me to envision Drayton's motivations. He loses a marketable player and pays?
I'm hoping your first statement is correct: maybe they feel that the long-term combo of these three is worth a year and two months of Oswalt plus X amount of cash.
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I don't get this deal. Why not use that money in Latin America?
You do realize that the money you are referring to, plus more, would be paying for Oswalt. Instead of paying the rest of his salary this year, his salary next year, and the option buyout, the Astros are only paying $11M. That is less.
The Astros saved money on this deal. Maybe they plan to spend that savings on a whirlwind trip to Rio?
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It is hard for me to envision Drayton's motivations. He loses a marketable player and pays?
I truly hope you are not an accountant.
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Are you serious? It's perfectly obvious. If the 2012 mutual option isn't picked up, than the team buys out the option. The phillies agreed to increase that buyout. This is really standard.
Thank you Captain Obvious.
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Hat tip to Astros County for finding this: http://twitter.com/TBrownYahoo/status/19850167475
Scouting Report from BA on Gose:
6. Anthony Gose, of Born: Aug. 10, 1990 • B-T: L-L • Ht: 6-1 • Wt: 190
Drafted: HS—Bellflower, Calif., 2008 (2nd round) • Signed by: Tim Kissner
Anthony GoseBackground: Gose had as much arm strength as any high school lefthander this decade, reaching 97 mph at times, but had no desire to pitch as a professional. He also had a shoulder problem as a senior, so the Phillies popped him as an outfielder and paid him a $772,000 bonus. His tools were evident in 2009, as managers rated him the best and fastest baserunner, best defensive outfielder and most exciting player in the South Atlantic League.
Strengths: Gose earns 70 grades on the 20-80 scouting scale for three tools: his arm, his center-field defense and his speed. He led the minor leagues with 76 steals in 96 attempts, and he'll be even more dangerous as he gets on base more often and refines his basestealing instincts. His arm helped him rack up 13 assists, third among SAL outfielders. Despite hitting just two homers in 2009, he has solid-average raw power.
Weaknesses: His weakest tool is his bat, and Gose will need time to rework his offensive approach and improve his pitch recognition. His power gets him in trouble as he takes wild hacks at times. He gives away too many at-bats and lacks a two-strike approach.
The Future: The Phillies believe in Gose and will give him plenty of time to learn and improve, but he may need 2,000 minor league at-bats. Some scouts liken his offensive upside to that of Carl Crawford, and Gose would have more defensive value. He'll advance to high Class A in 2010.
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sorry. just thought he might replace bourn if he was deemed too expensive in the offseason. i'd prefer to keep him and move lee or pence.
You realize we are talking about a guy currently in A-ball, right? If he was capable of replacing Bourn next season then you should be very happy with this deal.
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I just explained the "Oswalt Inning™" to my Phillie-phan girlfriend. "Greeeaaat....", she says. "Is that like the "Lidge Inning?"
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Weaknesses: His weakest tool is his bat, and Gose will need time to rework his offensive approach and improve his pitch recognition. His power gets him in trouble as he takes wild hacks at times. He gives away too many at-bats and lacks a two-strike approach.
An outfielder who's weakest skill is hitting. Wonderful.
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You realize we are talking about a guy currently in A-ball, right? If he was capable of replacing Bourn next season then you should be very happy with this deal.
Wait a minute, I thought this was for MLB-ready prospects!
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I just explained the "Oswalt Inning™" to my Phillie-phan girlfriend. "Greeeaaat....", she says. "Is that like the "Lidge Inning"?
she did not like the perfect season Lidge had?
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I just explained the "Oswalt Inning™" to my Phillie-phan girlfriend. "Greeeaaat....", she says. "Is that like the "Lidge Inning?"
Tell her to think of them as a nice pair of bookends.
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The real trade might be two-fold:
1. Get rid of a malcontent
2. Get payroll relief
If you planned to spend X amount of dollars the next two years, you want it to be for a top line player *AND* leader on the team. If you don't get that, you are losing much more than games and retarding the ability of this organization to rebuild and/or reload to get back to the playoffs. We see trades with the blinders of trade and get. Organizations see trades for much more than that, while still focusing on the now and also the later.
That's why we're fans and they're baseball people.
So think if you transfer the dollars saved to another player you could get in the FA market (that you could not have gotten otherwise) and that guy is also a great leader cut in the same mold as Bagwell. *DING, DING, DING* - you win!
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she did not like the perfect season Lidge had?
Long forgotten, for some reason. I gave up trying to understand.
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Hat tip to Astros County for finding this: http://twitter.com/TBrownYahoo/status/19850167475
Scouting Report from BA on Gose:
6. Anthony Gose, of Born: Aug. 10, 1990 • B-T: L-L • Ht: 6-1 • Wt: 190
Drafted: HS—Bellflower, Calif., 2008 (2nd round) • Signed by: Tim Kissner
Anthony GoseBackground: Gose had as much arm strength as any high school lefthander this decade, reaching 97 mph at times, but had no desire to pitch as a professional. He also had a shoulder problem as a senior, so the Phillies popped him as an outfielder and paid him a $772,000 bonus. His tools were evident in 2009, as managers rated him the best and fastest baserunner, best defensive outfielder and most exciting player in the South Atlantic League.
Strengths: Gose earns 70 grades on the 20-80 scouting scale for three tools: his arm, his center-field defense and his speed. He led the minor leagues with 76 steals in 96 attempts, and he'll be even more dangerous as he gets on base more often and refines his basestealing instincts. His arm helped him rack up 13 assists, third among SAL outfielders. Despite hitting just two homers in 2009, he has solid-average raw power.
Weaknesses: His weakest tool is his bat, and Gose will need time to rework his offensive approach and improve his pitch recognition. His power gets him in trouble as he takes wild hacks at times. He gives away too many at-bats and lacks a two-strike approach.
The Future: The Phillies believe in Gose and will give him plenty of time to learn and improve, but he may need 2,000 minor league at-bats. Some scouts liken his offensive upside to that of Carl Crawford, and Gose would have more defensive value. He'll advance to high Class A in 2010.
Stark reporting Gose to Toronto for ? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5420095
"Although the Phillies prospects have not been publicly identified, sources said the Astros will receive outfielder Anthony Gose as part of the deal and then send him to the Toronto Blue Jays. Gose is currently at Class A Clearwater in the Florida State League, where he was batting .263 with a team-high 110 hits. "
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she did not like the perfect season Lidge had?
Hey, flags fly forever. And Lidge doesn't whine.
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You realize we are talking about a guy currently in A-ball, right? If he was capable of replacing Bourn next season then you should be very happy with this deal.
i guess i should have specified which offseason.
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Thank you Captain Obvious.
Well, with all the bullshit being thrown around, it's hard to catch up whose tongue is in who's cheek.
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Hey, flags fly forever. And Lidge doesn't whine.
forgotten in all this "i'm smarter than he is" indignation over the trade is that Roy fucking quit on his team this year. i would not have wanted him around either. i'll leave baseball decisions to baseball men, at least until i have personal knowledge of the thinking that went into them.
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Gose to Toronto according to MLB Trade Rumors
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It's certainly a disappointing outcome, but that's the breaks of having no trade leverage and a lose-lose contract situation.
Please explain how the Astros had no leverage? The Phillies may have been the only interested team now, but Oswalt isn't a free agent after this season. He is under contract through 2011 with an option for 2012. If you wanted a certain player and the Phillies balked, you hang up the phone and revisit the discussions in the offseason.
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According to the story I read Gose is going to Toronto. Let me go find it and link it. It also said San Diego and St. Louis come in late to the deal.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5420095
Although the Phillies prospects have not been publicly identified, sources said the Astros will receive outfielder Anthony Gose as part of the deal and then send him to the Toronto Blue Jays. Gose is currently at Class A Clearwater in the Florida State League, where he was batting .263 with a team-high 110 hits.
A baseball source told ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick that the St. Louis Cardinals and San Diego Padres both made late efforts to land Oswalt, but got involved too late
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Well, with all the bullshit being thrown around, it's hard to catch up whose tongue is in who's cheek.
Actually, I wasn't being tongue in cheek, I was commenting on the writer going around his ass to get to his elbow and butchering the rather simple explanation that Oswalt's buyout was upped from $1MM to $2MM.
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I truly hope you are not an accountant.
No, I'm not, but are you figuring in the differing return on salary of Oswalt to Happ? Sure, you pay him 16 million or whatever next year, and the buyout. But, there is definitely a return on that 16 million, both in attendence at Roy's starts, and in franchise identity, things we are led to believe Drayton values. Happ's returns are most likely a lower value than Oswalt. But, you are right, there are other factors, and I am not qualified to assess the situation in it's entirety, but it still doesn't fit with my perception of what Drayton would push for.
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The real trade might be two-fold:
1. Get rid of a malcontent
2. Get payroll relief
If you planned to spend X amount of dollars the next two years, you want it to be for a top line player *AND* leader on the team. If you don't get that, you are losing much more than games and retarding the ability of this organization to rebuild and/or reload to get back to the playoffs. We see trades with the blinders of trade and get. Organizations see trades for much more than that, while still focusing on the now and also the later.
That's why we're fans and they're baseball people.
So think if you transfer the dollars saved to another player you could get in the FA market (that you could not have gotten otherwise) and that guy is also a great leader cut in the same mold as Bagwell. *DING, DING, DING* - you win!
Problem is the Astros are paying 10-11 million of Oswalt's salary next season. So they aren't saving that much if at all.
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According to the story I read Gose is going to Toronto. Let me go find it and link it. It also said San Diego and St. Louis come in late to the deal.
already linked.
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BA on Villar:
Scouts rave about Villar's range and easy actions, saying he could play defense in the big leagues right now. "Defensively, it's all there—60 arm, very good range," one scout told us recently. Villar runs very well and is aggressive in terms of stealing and taking extra bases. Like Gose, he'll need repetitions to refine his offensive game. Villar likes to swing at fastballs early in the count and rarely walks. The switch-hitter has fared marginally better from the left side this season, batting .270/.333/.363 with both of his home runs.
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No, I'm not, but are you figuring in the differing return on salary of Oswalt to Happ?
Next year is Happ's third year. He's not breaking the bank.
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Problem is the Astros are paying 10-11 million of Oswalt's salary next season. So they aren't saving that much if at all.
I guess they're saving $5MM this year and $5-7MM next year, so that's $10-12MM overall.
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Astros PC at 4 CST.
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Apaparently jury duty has saved me from the majority of the rending of garments. But it sure doesn't look like a great return.
But who knows... at the time, it looked like we got more for Billy Doran than for Larry Andersen.
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Apaparently jury duty has saved me from the majority of the rending of garments. But it sure doesn't look like a great return.
But who knows... at the time, it looked like we got more for Billy Doran than for Larry Andersen.
plenty of rending still going on. some of these experts haven't posted in weeks. they have been studying up, don't you know.
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already linked.
Oops. There must be a Cabrera in the deal.
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plenty of rending still going on. some of these experts haven't posted in weeks. they have been studying up, don't you know.
Getting Roy out of the clubhouse is addition by subtraction. Still more of that to be done.
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Getting Roy out of the clubhouse is addition by subtraction. Still more of that to be done.
True.
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Please explain how the Astros had no leverage? The Phillies may have been the only interested team now, but Oswalt isn't a free agent after this season. He is under contract through 2011 with an option for 2012. If you wanted a certain player and the Phillies balked, you hang up the phone and revisit the discussions in the offseason.
And I'm sure you'd be just thrilled with the outcome of those 'offseason discussions' if Roy finishes another season on the DL after continuing to run his mouth about the organization.
I realize that your perception of Roy O. is likely biased, but you need to take a look at how his abilities are perceived outside of the Astros fan community. When you look at Roy, you probably see a franchise player who once stared crippling pressure in the face and made franchise history with an NLCS masterpiece, most other people see a 33 year old with dwindling ability and a bad attitude, who also hasn't been a true marquee pitcher in over 2 years.
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Problem is the Astros are paying 10-11 million of Oswalt's salary next season. So they aren't saving that much if at all.
You can't say that, as you don't know the full equation yet. The trade is Oswalt + 11MM ~= Happ + X + Y. It's not until you know who X and Y are, and then decide a value to all 4 players can you say with any certainty how much of Oswalt's salary "the Astros are paying" next year.
Oh, and if Roy pulls in an extra 10,000 asses per game (which he doesnt) and they spend $30/each (and they dont) that's $6MM in ticket revenue. Even if your $11MM calc is true, they're saving $7MM in salary at a loss of $6MM in questionable ticket revenue.
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I guess they're saving $5MM this year and $5-7MM next year, so that's $10-12MM overall.
Which could add a nice piece, especially if LB's option is decline or restructured. For anyone not a scout who hasn't seen these guys play, speculating on the prospects received, while entertaining in the dull summer months this year, is pretty futile. I'll be blindly optimistic that this savings turns into Carl Crawford until he signs with the Yankees.
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And I'm sure you'd be just thrilled with the outcome of those 'offseason discussions' if Roy finishes another season on the DL after continuing to run his mouth about the organization.
I realize that your perception of Roy O. is likely biased, but you need to take a look at how his abilities are perceived outside of the Astros fan community. When you look at Roy, you probably see a franchise player who once stared crippling pressure in the face and made franchise history with an NLCS masterpiece, most other people see a 33 year old with dwindling ability and a bad attitude, who also hasn't been a true marquee pitcher in over 2 years.
He's a good #2, which is all the Phillies need him to be. They had their Ace already.
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Official Per Footer:
The Astros will hold press conference re: their acquisition of LHP J.A. Happ, OF Anthony Gose & SS Jonathan Villar for Roy Oswalt at 4 CT.
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Getting Roy out of the clubhouse is addition by subtraction. Still more of that to be done.
And we can hope young master Happ isn't too unhappy about the move.
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Official Per Footer:
The Astros will hold press conference re: their acquisition of LHP J.A. Happ, OF Anthony Gose & SS Jonathan Villar for Roy Oswalt at 4 CT.
Just got the official press release from the Astros with the same prospects listed.
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Actually, I wasn't being tongue in cheek, I was commenting on the writer going around his ass to get to his elbow and butchering the rather simple explanation that Oswalt's buyout was upped from $1MM to $2MM.
"Bob Garber, the agent for Oswalt, said if the Phillies don't pick up his option, his salary in '11 would increase to $18 million. "
link (http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100729&content_id=12760192&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou)
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According to the story I read Gose is going to Toronto. Let me go find it and link it. It also said San Diego and St. Louis come in late to the deal.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5420095
St. Louis thought the Astros weren't serious but now fear the Halladay-Hamels-Oswalt trifecta. It could have been Carpenter-Wainwright-Oswalt instead, but they decided that Houston was playing chicken with them and they now are on the outside looking in trying to figure out how in the heck did they lose out on a chance to obtain a pitcher who all but begged to go to their organization.
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He's a good #2, which is all the Phillies need him to be. They had their Ace already.
maybe a good #3.
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Problem is the Astros are paying 10-11 million of Oswalt's salary next season. So they aren't saving that much if at all.
I'm not sure you're correct on that one. Just saying.
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So what kind of corner IF prospects do the Jays have?
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So what kind of corner IF prospects do the Jays have?
Speedy, up the middle guys. Try to keep up
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St. Louis thought the Astros weren't serious but now fear the Halladay-Hamels-Oswalt trifecta. It could have been Carpenter-Wainwright-Oswalt instead, but they decided that Houston was playing chicken with them and they now are on the outside looking in trying to figure out how in the heck did they lose out on a chance to obtain a pitcher who all but begged to go to their organization.
The prospects might/might not pan out, but if the Turds got screwed in this deal it instantly makes it better.
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The prospects might/might not pan out, but if the Turds got screwed in this deal it instantly makes it better.
The best part about it is they screwed themselves. Good luck facing the Phils in the playoffs everyone. (I hope Brendan Ryan has a great post-season too, just to be fair and all)
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And I'm sure you'd be just thrilled with the outcome of those 'offseason discussions' if Roy finishes another season on the DL after continuing to run his mouth about the organization.
I realize that your perception of Roy O. is likely biased, but you need to take a look at how his abilities are perceived outside of the Astros fan community. When you look at Roy, you probably see a franchise player who once stared crippling pressure in the face and made franchise history with an NLCS masterpiece, most other people see a 33 year old with dwindling ability and a bad attitude, who also hasn't been a true marquee pitcher in over 2 years.
Roy Oswalt hasn't made fewer than 30 starts in a season since 2003. Also, while he may not be an ace, he's definitely a solid number 2 starter on almost every MLB club.
So again, the Astros had plenty of leverage in this situation. He was under contract for next season, and he was considered the best pitcher available via trade. That wasn't likely to change in the offseason and teams wouldn't have to take as big of a financial hit. The bottom line is the team could have waited if they didn't receive a good enough offer.
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If the Astros just swapped Oswalt and $11MM for Happ, Gose and Villar, they have been officially anally raped without lube.
Yeah, but the Phils will repay Drayton for the bulldozer.
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Footer just referred to Roy's demands as 'unreasonable.'
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Ha. Also from Fuckhouse:
Unlike the absurd hatred a few of you are spewing re: prospects you know nothing about, I choose to read up on the new guys before opining.
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Footer just referred to Roy's demands as 'unreasonable.'
Where?
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Holy shit, Fuckhouse. Good show!
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The best part about it is they screwed themselves. Good luck facing the Phils in the playoffs everyone. (I hope Brendan Ryan has a great post-season too, just to be fair and all)
Of course, the Phils have to make the playoffs first. They're currently 3.5 out in the division, 2.5 out (third place) in the WC.
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Where?
Twitter (http://twitter.com/alysonfooter)
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You can't say that, as you don't know the full equation yet. The trade is Oswalt + 11MM ~= Happ + X + Y. It's not until you know who X and Y are, and then decide a value to all 4 players can you say with any certainty how much of Oswalt's salary "the Astros are paying" next year.
Oh, and if Roy pulls in an extra 10,000 asses per game (which he doesnt) and they spend $30/each (and they dont) that's $6MM in ticket revenue. Even if your $11MM calc is true, they're saving $7MM in salary at a loss of $6MM in questionable ticket revenue.
Fair enough. I'm not calculating anything though. The 11 million number is what is being reported by most sources breaking this trade.
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Which could add a nice piece, especially if LB's option is decline or restructured. For anyone not a scout who hasn't seen these guys play, speculating on the prospects received, while entertaining in the dull summer months this year, is pretty futile. I'll be blindly optimistic that this savings turns into Carl Crawford until he signs with the Yankees.
The thing is, both Oswalt and Berkman were given major dollars a few years ago (and then Lee was too). Not only was it high dollar amounts, but they were multi-year contracts, meaning Drayton put his faith in three core guys to conduct themselves beyond just in field performance, but in leadership as well. These guys were tagged as the heir apparent to Bagwell and Biggio, who not only earned dollars and a set long term lifestyle in Houston because of homeruns and hits, but because they led other men to perform at peek throughout the tenure they were here. They led by example, something a Brett Myers is ironically displaying this season for the team that Roy Oswalt has yet to learn to do.
So it was time to give up on the ideal that Oswalt was/is a team leader. The other two (Berkman and Lee) perhaps fall under the same scrutiny of lack of real ROI in those terms as well. So be it. In order to turn this franchise around from where it is to where it once was under Bagwell and Biggio is to get someone else who is serious about being the clubhouse leader into this clubhouse. Are the Astros trading for such a guy right now? No, they're not, no one is fooling themselves that they are. But by clearing out the high dollars being spent, the process begins to pass the baton to other younger, more inclined to be that Bagwell (under the watchful eye of none other than Bagwell himself).
Today is the day that it shifts and this may only be the start. Don't lose sight of the larger, more panoramic picture that may be right in front of all our eyes that we fail to see because we have blinders on that have "Fan" written all over them.
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Astros get Brett Wallace for Gose (http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19853461575)
This sounds much better. Wallace is nearly MLB-ready at 1b.
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In a bizarre twist, Jon Heyman, of all people, twitters: "think houston did fine getting happ and gose in oswalt deal. philly has best rotation top-3 in baseball, too."
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this makes me feel better: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/astros-to-send-anthony-gose-to-blue-jays.html
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Oh holy shit Footer
"And one more thing. By the end of the day we're all going to think this was a good day for Houston. Please let it play out. Thank you"
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Astros get Brett Wallace for Gose (http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19853461575)
This sounds much better. Wallace is nearly MLB-ready at 1b.
There's the centerpiece. Nice job Ed Wade.
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Of course, the Phils have to make the playoffs first. They're currently 3.5 out in the division, 2.5 out (third place) in the WC.
They get Oswalt, they get Utley back soon. Halladay-Hamels-Oswalt makes for a prolong losing streak to be almost unthinkable at this point and prolonged winning streaks a great possibility. If the Phils screw this up, it's their own doing, no one else.
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Ha. Also from Fuckhouse:
i love her even more.
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please excuse my previous FireEdWade.com post.
I feel better now.
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Personally, I think that's a pretty stupid series of tweets from Alyson.
Roy's concession/compensation to the trade actually looks pretty reasonable.
I can speak only for myself, but I don't like this trade precisely because I have read up on the prospects.
And the Astros had to have a ML ready pitcher in the trade to have 5 pitchers this year? Huh? Are the Stros playing for anything this year?
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Astros get Brett Wallace for Gose (http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19853461575)
This sounds much better. Wallace is nearly MLB-ready at 1b.
which may mean there are discussions for Berkman.
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Astros get Brett Wallace for Gose (http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19853461575)
This sounds much better. Wallace is nearly MLB-ready at 1b.
Hey, and the Turdinals thought they had come in too late to be part of the deal...thanks to them, in a roundabout way.
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I've stayed silent throughout this thread because I knew nothing of the details and wasn't going to speak out of the side of my neck about a thing I had nothing to do with. This trade can't be evaluated now. It's too early. Way too early. Based upon Mr. Wade's track record, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and congratulating him for a fine trade.
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Good Gosh.
I go to a meeting, the deal gets finalized and now all this.
I even have a friend calling me saying Wade is the devil and horrible. I think Drayton was as ready as Roy for him to be gone. He's gone. I'm okay with him being gone.
We won't know crap about this deal until we know how the prospects turn out. If they are all turds then yeah, the Astros got it in the butt. But we won't know tonight.
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Astros get Brett Wallace for Gose (http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19853461575)
This sounds much better. Wallace is nearly MLB-ready at 1b.
Chance of Puma to LAA after DLee quashed the deal?
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FWIW, Wallace was considered the 27th best prospect in baseball by BA going into this season.
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Astros get Brett Wallace for Gose (http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19853461575)
This sounds much better. Wallace is nearly MLB-ready at 1b.
Ok, now I am coming around on it.
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Personally, I think that's a pretty stupid series of tweets from Alyson.
Roy's concession/compensation to the trade actually looks pretty reasonable.
I can speak only for myself, but I don't like this trade precisely because I have read up on the prospects.
And the Astros had to have a ML ready pitcher in the trade to have 5 pitchers this year? Huh? Are the Stros playing for anything this year?
personally, i don't give a fuck what you think about Alyson's tweets. you should not have been looking at them, you pervert.
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I even have a friend calling me saying Wade is the devil and horrible.
Pretty sure I know who this is.
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i love her even more.
She has to fight ignorance all along the way while maintaining dignity and grace and some amount of charm about it. I love it when she loses her cool at times though. "Hey Apollo, I thought you said to play it cool?" "That WAS Cool!"
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Astros get Brett Wallace for Gose (http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19853461575)
This sounds much better. Wallace is nearly MLB-ready at 1b.
and there is the heir apparant.
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Roy Oswalt hasn't made fewer than 30 starts in a season since 2003. Also, while he may not be an ace, he's definitely a solid number 2 starter on almost every MLB club.
So again, the Astros had plenty of leverage in this situation. He was under contract for next season, and he was considered the best pitcher available via trade. That wasn't likely to change in the offseason and teams wouldn't have to take as big of a financial hit. The bottom line is the team could have waited if they didn't receive a good enough offer.
So 33 year old fringe #2 starters are now worth $16MM per year? Were you also the mastermind behind the Carlos Lee contract?
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Wallace was a third baseman until this year, right? Anyone know/read anything about his abilities there? Could he be moved back there if Berkman is still around next year?
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So it can't be straight up Wallace for Gose, right?
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which may mean there are discussions for Berkman.
*DING, DING, DING*
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which may mean there are discussions for Berkman.
or they just aren't planning on picking up his option.
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So it can't be straight up Wallace for Gose, right?
Looks like it is, at least so far in the Internet Rumor Machine.
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Wallace was a third baseman until this year, right? Anyone know/read anything about his abilities there? Could he be moved back there if Berkman is still around next year?
I recall Callis stating in a chat last year that there was no way that Wallace could stay at 3B. That is the reason he was dealt in the first place. Premium bat, average defender at 1B.
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*DING, DING, DING*
my friend implied this week that there are.
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personally, i don't give a fuck what you think about Alyson's tweets. you should not have been looking at them, you pervert.
I could imagine, buddy.
She usually has such nice tweets.
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which may mean there are discussions for Berkman.
Hadn't thought of it in that context. I had read it more along the lines of "don't bother asking us to pick up your option next year Lance."
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Wallace was a third baseman until this year, right? Anyone know/read anything about his abilities there? Could he be moved back there if Berkman is still around next year?
Or CJ to first or Lee to first, Wallace to LF, or Lee gets traded, Berkman moves to LF or CJ to 1st, Wallace to third, Berkman to LF... all sorts of possibilities with young guys ready to come up to the majors. When Ryan Braun was being held back in AAA it was because he was still a horrible third baseman who could hit. Now look where he plays.
Get how this can work out? All sorts of options now for the Astros as long as they have prospects to handle these good to have situations.
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Astros get Brett Wallace for Gose (http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19853461575)
This sounds much better. Wallace is nearly MLB-ready at 1b.
I took a glance at BP's list of Jays prospects and immediately saw Wallace. And then figured that it was a long shot. I'm glad I'm wrong.
I'll bet that the Jays get some cash in addition to Gose.
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Astros get Brett Wallace for Gose (http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/19853461575)
This sounds much better. Wallace is nearly MLB-ready at 1b.
Nice. His report makes him sound like Joey Votto.
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So it can't be straight up Wallace for Gose, right?
We're letting Gose go for a first baseman? Fucking Wade.
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Wallace was a third baseman until this year, right? Anyone know/read anything about his abilities there? Could he be moved back there if Berkman is still around next year?
i heard he was moved to 1B after his third base defense was called into question. i believe it is why the cardinals moved him to oakland in the matt holliday deal.
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I just want to say, I agree with Jim, Budgirl and others; I am glad Roy is gone. He didn't want to be here, he turned into a total diva (as opposed to just an occasional diva earlier in his career- remember the public flap he had with Bagwell after he hit a batter right after giving up a big HR?), so fuck him, good riddance.
The prospects thing, I don't really know shit other than what I've read today online, scouting reports etc. Sounds like Wallace was the real centerpiece, and that he can hit, although his glove is in question it seems. Happ seems like a solid MLB pitcher, and Villar, though ranked somewhat low among Phillies' prospects, sounds like he could turn out to be an exciting player, years from now. So who the hell knows if they did great, or crappy in this deal. Also, how much say did Wade/Heck have, vs. McLane saying "enough! I just want to make the deal already!", we'll probably never know.
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my friend implied this week that there are.
Angels? Can't imagine Rangers given the Cantu pickup today. He's got a NTC too, so I imagine he could pull the, sure if you pickup my option crap as well.
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my friend implied this week that there are.
Trading Oswalt is a message. It is a message some others in the clubhouse get. In fact, it is several messages rolled into one. What Jason Castro thinks of this trade is entirely different from what a Lance Berkman will think. Castro may look at this as an opportunity because it opens doors or begins the process of opening doors to make this a clubhouse owned by young leaders ready to take on that responsibility. Berkman will see it entirely differently and a trade would be something that he would welcome because he cannot and should not go through a whole new world here in Houston that quite frankly everyone is ready to have happen.
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Wallace was a third baseman until this year, right? Anyone know/read anything about his abilities there? Could he be moved back there if Berkman is still around next year?
From BP:
The Good: Wallace is an offensive powerhouse with a quick, compact swing that should lead to .300 batting averages in the big leagues and the strength to hit 40 doubles annually with 20-25 home runs. He has great baseball instincts, to go with soft hands and a solid arm.
The Bad: Wallace's bat is his only tool, as he's not athletic and slow. While he held his own at third base on balls hit to him, his range was extremely limited, and he will be moved to first base in 2010. While he had a reputation as an on-base machine in college, he's not even drawn one walk per ten ABs as a pro, with just 62 unintentional walks 734 career at-bats.
ETA: Whether by trade, retirement, or FA, I think chances are slim that Puma is here next year.
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Angels? Can't imagine Rangers given the Cantu pickup today. He's got a NTC too, so I imagine he could pull the, sure if you pickup my option crap as well.
Who is the Angels' DH? Morales will be back next year, so they presumably wouldn't need Lance there. Unless they think that they can get away without having to pick up his option for next year.
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We're letting Gose go for a first baseman? Fucking Wade.
It's not going to happen. Wade can't pass up a middle reliever.
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he's not even drawn one walk per ten ABs as a pro
Well, cumoneensonny! You'll fit right in around here.
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We're letting Gose go for a first baseman? Fucking Wade.
Thanks, Agent Ed.
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Well, cumoneensonny! You'll fit right in around here.
so ignore his .300 avg, his 40 doubles, and his 20-25 HRs. MFer cannot draw a walk!
fuck BP.
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Wallace is official. Going to RR.
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From BP:
ETA: Whether by trade, retirement, or FA, I think chances are slim that Puma is here next year.
Well, according to HH, if you can "pour piss from a boot" you can play 1B. So if he can hit .300 and provide lots of power and reasonable OBP, he can be slow and poor defensively.
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fuck BP.
In fairness, they have him a 5-star prospect and second only to Drabek in the Jays' system.
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Footer just called Lee 'the most untradeable player in the history of untradeable players.'
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Am I to understand that there are others deals happening with the guys Wade got? Work is getting in the way of me following things very closely.
So, can someone give me a cliff note version of what the Astros have gotten today and what they have given away? Pretty please.
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So who the hell knows if they did great, or crappy in this deal. Also, how much say did Wade/Heck have, vs. McLane saying "enough! I just want to make the deal already!", we'll probably never know.
nice summary. I am glad Roy is gone, as I think the talk about leaders has a lot of merit.
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presser on mlb.com right now.
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Am I to understand that there are others deals happening with the guys Wade got? Work is getting in the way of me following things very closely.
So, can someone give me a cliff note version of what the Astros have gotten today and what they have given away? Pretty please.
Gose flipped to the Blue Jays for Wallace.
We lose, Oswalt. We get, Happ, Wallace, and Villar.
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Wallace was nails at ASU, I really enjoyed watching him hit and am really excited that the Astros landed him.
Also, on Roy and attendance. It is a myth. Go look at the #'s, they barely move when he pitches. Here are his last 3 starts and the day before or after. Last Saturday Roy's start drew 31.5, Friday night with Wandy on the mound they drew 30.5...the previous Saturday home game drew 37.5 with Meyers on the mound.
Roy pitched Thursday against the pirates and they drew 24.4, the day before they drew 23.2 with Moehler on the mound.
Roy threw on a Tuesday against the Giants and drew 29.3, the next day the Astros drew 29.7 for a Brett Meyers start.
Attendance spikes are driven by stupid shit like bobbleheads and cheap shitty food, not things like who the starting pitcher is, sans Strasburg.
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tell us if he says there are other deals being explored.
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In fairness, they have him a 5-star prospect and second only to Drabek in the Jays' system.
Based on my extensive research (i.e., reading the TZ), this seems oddly lop-sided in the Astros' favor. I must be missing something about Gose.
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Wade says we didn't need Gose because Bourn isn't going anywhere. Thus, the flip. Wallace is "a hitting machine."
He was in the Halladay trade last year.
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ken rosenthal on twitter:
Source: Berkman "in play," discussions taking place. Deal far from guaranteed. Berkman, like Oswalt, has full no-trade. #Astros #MLB 9 minutes ago via web
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Villar going to Lancaster.
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There has to be more to the Wallace trade.
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So 33 year old fringe #2 starters are now worth $16MM per year?
That question has nothing to do with the discussion about leverage. You were claiming the team had no leverage in trading Oswalt, and that simply isn't/wasn't true.
That said, Barry Zito got more per season from the Giants, Derek Lowe got 15 million dollars a season from Atlanta, and Burnett got 12 mil a year from the Yankees. Considering those contracts and what Sabathia and Halladay signed for, Oswalt's contract is not out of line. His 2010 performance doesn't reflect that it's out of line either.
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tell us if he says there are other deals being explored.
"We will actively stay engaged right up until the deadline"
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There has to be more to the Wallace trade.
I think the hand job that the Astros got from the Phillies went to toronto.
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ken rosenthal on twitter:
Source: Berkman "in play," discussions taking place. Deal far from guaranteed. Berkman, like Oswalt, has full no-trade. #Astros #MLB 9 minutes ago via web
this is what i think.
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There has to be more to the Wallace trade.
According to Jays GM, they had tried to get Gose in the Halladay deal. Think he will be a GG CF.
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"We will actively stay engaged right up until the deadline"
and he more than hinted that he expects to be able to trade past the deadline (given it's doubtful anyone claims Berkman)
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Footer (via Twitter): No Carlos was not traded. To review, he is the most untradeable player in the history of untradeable players.
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Footer just called Lee 'the most untradeable player in the history of untradeable players.'
I can agree with that.
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According to Jays GM, they had tried to get Gose in the Halladay deal. Think he will be a GG CF.
Pretty much opting for defense over offense. Just as the Astros need to do the opposite. Good deal.
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this is what i think.
LAAofA was interested in DLee, why not Berkman, right? Two perennial producers having a down year. The dollars aren't very different if the option doesn't have to be exercised.
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According to Jays GM, they had tried to get Gose in the Halladay deal. Think he will be a GG CF.
Damn... sure would be nice to have one of those... what's that?
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Just watched some footage on Wallace. He looks like he can hit. Looks like he has had a twinkie or two, also.
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Footer (via Twitter): No Carlos was not traded. To review, he is the most untradeable player in the history of untradeable players.
This tweet proves she can be unfailingly polite and patient as well.
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ken rosenthal on twitter:
Source: Berkman "in play," discussions taking place. Deal far from guaranteed. Berkman, like Oswalt, has full no-trade. #Astros #MLB 9 minutes ago via web
Berkman is ready to leave, he is not making public statements and demands, he just knows (and has told the Astros) that if they need to trade him to rebuild, he'll work with them on the no-trade aspects.
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Have enjoyed the reactions to the trade today. It has caused me to go back and re-read a glorious thread that occured when Drew Sutton was announced as the PTBN to be sent to Cincy for Kepp. Here are some highlights:
From Dick Justice (via Tweeter)...
"So Drew Sutton IS the player to be named later in the Jeff Keppinger trade. Nice going, Eddie. Go trade a couple more prospects."
why does it matter where good players come from? all this hand-wringing over this trade is mystifying to me.
And to sum up the discussion:
hey, here is the general response to you:
who gives a shit what you "question?" you are nobody, and it is none of your fucking business what decisions ownership and/or baseball people make about personnel moves or the payroll. just watch the games or play your fantasy team. my guess is that you do more of the former than the latter.
In regards to today's trade..... yeah what he said.
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Just watched some footage on Wallace. He looks like he can hit. Looks like he has had a twinkie or two, also.
Baseball Prospectus is already spouting the Wallace hate, so I see that as a HUGE plus. Doubled my excitement about the kid!
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Wade refused to talk about any possible trades (as he usually does)
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Good trade now - could be a great trade later.
I sure hope Wallace is up soon and Lance is either in LA or keeping Pedro company.
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Roy is one thing, but I would actually be a bit sad to see Berkman leave. I realize it may be for the best, but Lance, while he was not Jeff Bagwell by any stretch, was a class act, and a great hitter.
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Good trade now - could be a great trade later.
I sure hope Wallace is up soon and Lance is either in LA or keeping Pedro company.
From what Wade had said, they want him in the minors to work on a few things first.
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Roy is one thing, but I would actually be a bit sad to see Berkman leave. I realize it may be for the best, but Lance, while he was not Jeff Bagwell by any stretch, was a class act, and a great hitter.
agreed. i like Lance Berkman and wish he could retire as an Astro. i think Noe nailed it, though--he may be ready to leave for his own good and for the Astros' good.
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Roy is one thing, but I would actually be a bit sad to see Berkman leave. I realize it may be for the best, but Lance, while he was not Jeff Bagwell by any stretch, was a class act, and a great hitter.
Couldn't agree more.
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Roy is one thing, but I would actually be a bit sad to see Berkman leave. I realize it may be for the best, but Lance, while he was not Jeff Bagwell by any stretch, was a class act, and a great hitter.
Agreed. Maybe they can get some prospects for him and then re-sign him at a reduced rate next year.
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Baseball Prospectus is already spouting the Wallace hate, so I see that as a HUGE plus. Doubled my excitement about the kid!
Wallace was picked only 3 slots after Castro and 2 after Smoak, by the 3rdinals, right? He's been traded 3 times already, this time for a weak-hitting CF with great wheels. I wonder what infectious disease he has to get moved around so much. Hope H-town is the antidote and that he prospers for many years in what is about to be a gaping hole at 1B.
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Roy is one thing, but I would actually be a bit sad to see Berkman leave. I realize it may be for the best, but Lance, while he was not Jeff Bagwell by any stretch, was a class act, and a great hitter.
Born free, as free as the wind blows
As free as the grass grows
Born free to follow your heart
Live free and beauty surrounds you
The world still astounds you
Each time you look at a star
Stay free, where no walls divide you
You're free as the roaring tide
So there's no need to hide
Born free, and life is worth living
But only worth living
'cause you're born free
(Stay free, where no walls divide you)
You're free as the roaring tide
So there's no need to hide
Born free, and life is worth living
But only worth living
'cause you're born free
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Footer (via Twitter): No Carlos was not traded. To review, he is the most untradeable player in the history of untradeable players.
She is really selling 2007/8 Jason Giambi short on this one.
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agreed. i like Lance Berkman and wish he could retire as an Astro. i think Noe nailed it, though--he may be ready to leave for his own good and for the Astros' good.
Lance cannot go until after the trade deadline. He's giving his testimony at Faith and Family night this Saturday, isn't he? Can't happen.
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She is really selling 2007/8 Jason Giambi short on this one.
Or 2008 Zito.
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Agreed. Maybe they can get some prospects for him and then re-sign him at a reduced rate next year.
I'd go for that.
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Lance cannot go until after the trade deadline. He's giving his testimony at Faith and Family night this Saturday, isn't he? Can't happen.
There is new fangled thing called video and all... w'all, they sit the guy in front of a camera and darn if that thing doesn't take moving pictures with sound and all. It's like he's there in person... only he ain't!
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Or 2008 Zito.
Or the $65 million version of Chan Ho Park.
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Lance cannot go until after the trade deadline. He's giving his testimony at Faith and Family night this Saturday, isn't he? Can't happen.
Blum can step in. For both roles (1B and F&F)
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Agreed. Maybe they can get some prospects for him and then re-sign him at a reduced rate next year.
Odd that a guy who goes by Jose Cruz would post this. Maybe more like ironic but that is overused by me.
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I'd go for that.
GD, sometimes you just gotta let go, ya' know.
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Wallace was questioned as a 3B when he was drafted by the Cards. I have always heard he could work to be a good 1B. His bat is supposed to be great. I've only heard him talked about as a 3, 4, 5 hitter. There were a number of pudnits who thought the Astros should have tabbed him (or Smoak) instead of Castro. I'm pretty sure BP is one of them.
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There is new fangled thing called video and all... w'all, they sit the guy in front of a camera and darn if that thing doesn't take moving pictures with sound and all. It's like he's there in person... only he ain't!
Or Drayton could be his replacement.
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Wade, Heck, etc have scouted the hell out of these guys.
So either they really believe in them, or Drayton is pulling some serious strings on this.
So really it was Wade, Heck, etc scouting the hell out of them AND working the Phillies and Jays at the same time.
Kick ass!
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Or Drayton could be his replacement.
Or Drayton can have a Lance bobblehead on his lap and do a ventriloquist act whilest giving his err Lance's errr the testimony.
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Odd that a guy who goes by Jose Cruz would post this. Maybe more like ironic but that is overused by me.
I felt the same way with Mike Lamb, oddly enough.
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Wallace was picked only 3 slots after Castro and 2 after Smoak, by the 3rdinals, right? He's been traded 3 times already, this time for a weak-hitting CF with great wheels.
OK, let's nip this in the bud.
1. He was drafted by the Co-ards ONLY as trade bait. They never believed he'd play 3b, and he sure as all hell wasn't supplanting Pooholes.
2. He was sent by the A's as essentially a sidebar deal to the Holliday deal, b/c the A's like Taylor (who is now their #1 prospect) as a better fit.
In my view, the multiple trades mean NOTHING about the kid as a player.
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So really it was Wade, Heck, etc scouting the hell out of them AND working the Phillies and Jays at the same time.
Kick ass!
No, haven't you read, Wade doesn't know what he is doing.
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OK, let's nip this in the bud.
1. He was drafted by the Co-ards ONLY as trade bait. They never believed he'd play 3b, and he sure as all hell wasn't supplanting Pooholes.
2. He was sent by the A's as essentially a sidebar deal to the Holliday deal, b/c the A's like Taylor (who is now their #1 prospect) as a better fit.
In my view, the multiple trades mean NOTHING about the kid as a player.
Sure it does. It means he's valued enough by other teams to be wanted in trade. That's a good thing.
And, the best part of all this is that, assuming he's not dealt again, he gets to learn 1B and major league hitting from Jeff Bagwell.
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And, the best part of all this is that, assuming he's not dealt again, he gets to learn 1B and major league hitting from Jeff Bagwell.
Alkie's "RIP Boner" post?
Reverse it.
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http://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/19853337325
AL special advisor to GM tells me now buzz #Astros might move Berkman, do what owner McLane hasn't wanted in past: embrace rebuilding
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So just to review...
Ed Wade - capable MLB trader, does not have to include a throw-in player in every deal, nobody's fool
Drayton McLane Jr - willing to put cash in the pot to get deal done, capable of listening to his baseball people, not blind to present reality
Just reviewing the list before we get too far into Berkman discussions...
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Happ will start tomorrow.
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funny how the two guys who rushed in here to bitch and moan must have gone outside to mow the lawn or something.
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I think getting Wallace for Gose makes this day's work pretty damn tough to bitch about. He's a closer-to-ready Singleton. Hard to top that.
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I think getting Wallace for Gose makes this day's work pretty damn tough to bitch about. He's a closer-to-ready Singleton. Hard to top that.
oh, some folks can bitch about anything.
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Well, yeah, Wallace doesn't walk. Fucking Ed.
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I think getting Wallace for Gose makes this day's work pretty damn tough to bitch about. He's a closer-to-ready Singleton. Hard to top that.
Bullshit. It's only because Wallace is white and Drayton didn't want the black Singleton to be the centerpiece of the deal.
(I have no idea about the race of either player).
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oh, some folks can bitch about anything.
some people don't like Wade and will hate whatever he does/doesn't do. i'm rather tired of those people.
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Pretty sure I know who this is.
I'm pretty sure you do.
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Still haven't seen it reported definitively – did they or did they not receive lube in the deal?
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Still haven't seen it reported definitively – did they or did they not receive lube in the deal?
Perhaps even a reach-around.
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Still haven't seen it reported definitively – did they or did they not receive lube in the deal?
They got some of that fancy KY his and hers shit.
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I was at a game earlier this week with a banker, who argued that any payment by the Astros in the Lidge trade was at least in part the bonus payments the Astros didn't make to draftees under Purpura, sans some of the uncertainty.
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They got some of that fancy KY his and hers shit.
That's fantastic news. Anyone hear from their sources whether Wallace can pour piss from a boot?
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Ed Wade just on MLB network, very non-commital on Berkman, quotes ran something like this...
-He is our 1st baseman
-I've told him and his agent we will not address the option until next year
-I'm assuming he'll be our 1st baseman tomorrow against the Brewers
Yeah, thanks for the memories Twinkie, you'll be missed.
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I think getting Wallace for Gose makes this day's work pretty damn tough to bitch about. He's a closer-to-ready Singleton. Hard to top that.
Exactly.
As a bonus, this deal also provides a nice infusion of talent at SS as well. I'm have no problems with a combo of Hernandez/Sanchez/Manzella holding down the fort for a couple of years until one of Villar, Mier, Player X asserts themselves as a long-term solution.
I can't speak for others, but my goal for 2010 was to make a true commitment to rebuilding by the trade deadline. Now that this deal is complete, the team has put themselves in position to lay a very firm foundation for what lies ahead.
Noe pointed this out above, but the effects of today's trade extend far beyond the specific players involved. In agreeing to take a large financial hit to move a proven veteran player, the organization has signaled that a new era of Astros baseball has begun. I'm very thankful for what Roy and Lance have done for this team, but I personally could not be more excited to finally have something to 'root' for other than hoping to tread water and avoid outright embarrassment.
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Exactly.
I can't speak for others, but my goal for 2010 was to make a true commitment to rebuilding by the trade deadline.
Ed? Is that you?
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Exactly.
I can't speak for others, but my goal for 2010 was to make a true commitment to rebuilding by the trade deadline.
Ed? Is that you? Please forward your contact information to RandyWatson so that he can send you an apology on nice lavender stationary.
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If I am Ed Wade, then this forum is most certainly Shawn Chacon.
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Ed? Is that you?
It can't be Drayton. Champion wasn't mentioned.
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jcrasnick: A scout at Phils game said SS Jonathan Villar has chance to be an "exciting player.'' Needs to improve from left side of the plate. #trades [via Twitter]
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OK, let's nip this in the bud.
1. He was drafted by the Co-ards ONLY as trade bait. They never believed he'd play 3b, and he sure as all hell wasn't supplanting Pooholes.
2. He was sent by the A's as essentially a sidebar deal to the Holliday deal, b/c the A's like Taylor (who is now their #1 prospect) as a better fit.
In my view, the multiple trades mean NOTHING about the kid as a player.
Nothing to nip. I was commenting only on the frequent movement of a #13 pick only two years ago who has demonstrated some pretty promising offensive skills. I can see how your first two points make perfect sense, but it made me wonder about Gose based on the snippets of scouting reports copied in this forum. Seems that if accurate the Astros got a much better return in a Wallace-for-Gose deal straight up. Who knows, though, maybe Gose ends up being a Kenny Lofton, or better even.
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somethingsomethingsomething Needs to improve from left side of the plate. #trades [via Twitter]
Fucking Ed!
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Footer's reactions to the trades: LINK (http://footer.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/07/the_phillies_trade_got_a_lot_m.html)
Got this tweet from @comahan13:
"Wow they flipped Gose for Wallace? That's a great move if it's true, and almost single-handedly changes my opinion of all this."
That was exactly my reaction when I heard the Astros traded one of the Phillies prospects they acquired for Roy Oswalt for a 6-foot-2, 205-pound first baseman -- a former No. 1 draft pick whose future is at first base.
My original reaction to the players the Astros acquired in the Oswalt trade wasn't so enthusiastic. I was glad they received J.A. (pronounced "Jay") Happ, a bona fide Major League ready pitcher, but when I looked at outfielder Anthony Gose's credentials, he seemed so much like Michael Bourn and Minor League outfielder Jay Austin and I was wholly disappointed that the Astros did not go for a slugging infielder, something sorely lacking in the upper levels of their farm system.
Then the Astros flipped Gose to Toronto for infielder Brett Wallace, a power-hitting corner infielder. He appears to be a blue-chip offensive player who hasn't established himself at a particular position, and he'll report to Round Rock immediately to begin honing his skills at first base.
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Wallace was picked only 3 slots after Castro and 2 after Smoak, by the 3rdinals, right? He's been traded 3 times already, this time for a weak-hitting CF with great wheels. I wonder what infectious disease he has to get moved around so much. Hope H-town is the antidote and that he prospers for many years in what is about to be a gaping hole at 1B.
I know I'm way behind on this thread, but had to respond....Carlos Gonzalez was traded three or four times and look at him. Guy's a stud.
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Carlos Gonzalez was traded three or four times and look at him. Guy's a stud.
fantastic parallel. i have a hard time believing he isn't the starting 1B in 2011.
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I really think this is the best we could've gotten, and I'm not saying this because I don't have confidence in Wade. Just given all of the circumstances involved, I think both parties benefit.
What I don't get is the hesitance to deal Myers.
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What I don't get is the hesitance to deal Myers.
Have you learned nothing today?
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Have you learned nothing today?
Unfortunately I have a job that requires skills other than posting/following the Oswalt trade saga on a message board.
I'm not trying to be a dick, either, just the truth. What's the deal? Is Myers our ace next year? Who cares about next year?
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Unfortunately I have a job that requires skills other than posting/following the Oswalt trade saga on a message board.
I'm not trying to be a dick, either, just the truth. What's the deal? Is Myers our ace next year? Who cares about next year?
What makes you think they've been offered anything more than AAAA players for Myers?
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I would think Myers would have a little more value than AAAA players like at least a shot in the dark AA player so we can at least hold out the 1% chance it's another Bagwell deal.
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I really think this is the best we could've gotten, and I'm not saying this because I don't have confidence in Wade. Just given all of the circumstances involved, I think both parties benefit.
What I don't get is the hesitance to deal Myers.
In a down year, Myers has been a gamer and shown himself to be the anti-Oswalt amid Roy's grousing and playing the role of malcontent. Myers is also only 29 and they want to try to keep him beyond this season. I'm sure teams were throwing around names of lower-ceiling prospects (i.e. future middle relievers/lefty specialists) that signaled to the Astros that these clubs were hoping to get the 2010 version of Myers in exchange for value equivalent to the 2009 version.
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What I don't get is the hesitance to deal Myers.
Don't think, just throw...don't think, just throw. Seriously...quit worrying about what the Astros are or are not doing.
That's really the greatest part of having Wade, Heck and company (Counting what looks to be a changed Drayton McLane as well - finally buying in). I don't worry anymore...sounds silly, but ever since they drafted Castro and Lyles I've had a confidence their moves are going to turn out to be great moves.
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In a down year, Myers has been a gamer and shown himself to be the anti-Oswalt amid Roy's grousing and playing the role of malcontent. Myers is also only 29 and they want to try to keep him beyond this season. I'm sure teams were throwing around names of lower-ceiling prospects (i.e. future middle relievers/lefty specialists) that signaled to the Astros that these clubs were hoping to get the 2010 version of Myers in exchange for value equivalent to the 2009 version.
Brendan Ryan!
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If the Astros just swapped Oswalt and $11MM for Happ, Gose and Villar, they have been officially anally raped without lube.
Correction. Rape is non-consensual. This is self-imposed.
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In a down year, Myers has been a gamer and shown himself to be the anti-Oswalt amid Roy's grousing and playing the role of malcontent. Myers is also only 29 and they want to try to keep him beyond this season. I'm sure teams were throwing around names of lower-ceiling prospects (i.e. future middle relievers/lefty specialists) that signaled to the Astros that these clubs were hoping to get the 2010 version of Myers in exchange for value equivalent to the 2009 version.
How far beyond this season? Beyond 2011 too? Unless they make some incredible deals between now and next April, have some amazing development from youth and career years from veterans, this team isn't likely to be contending in 2011 either. They need to plan longer-term than Myers' likely horizon with the Astros.
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How far beyond this season? Beyond 2011 too? Unless they make some incredible deals between now and next April, have some amazing development from youth and career years from veterans, this team isn't likely to be contending in 2011 either. They need to plan longer-term than Myers' likely horizon with the Astros.
They have to at least get an offer worth more than a first round pick + a sandwich pick in next year's draft right?
Seems like they can win whether they trade him or not.
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They have to at least get an offer worth more than a first round pick + a sandwich pick in next year's draft right?
Seems like they can win whether they trade him or not.
Agreed.
My concern is whether that is the thinking, or whether McLane/Gardner believe the team can "be a champion" in 2011. Rebuilding needs to be a comprehensive project, not just shipping out a surly player or two.
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Agreed.
My concern is whether that is the thinking, or whether McLane/Gardner believe the team can "be a champion" in 2011. Rebuilding needs to be a comprehensive project, not just shipping out a surly player or two.
It ain't Saturday, yet.
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Unfortunately I have a job that requires skills other than posting/following the Oswalt trade saga on a message board.
I'm not trying to be a dick, either, just the truth. What's the deal? Is Myers our ace next year? Who cares about next year?
We have no idea if they're willing to trade Myers. A nugget from twitter is worth the paper it's written on. Saying you dont get it implies the "it" is a truth needing explanation.
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It ain't Saturday, yet.
Exactly...and guess what? Kind of funny how waiting to deal Myers kind of makes him the best SP left on the market. Hmmmmmm, interesting...almost strategic.
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Brendan Ryan!
Yeah, with a Shelby Miller ducktaped to him. Get 'er done!
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It ain't Saturday, yet.
Good point. And if they can't get good value, the yshouldn't trade him. That being said, given his track record, I'm skeptical of whether the Grocer understands that this isn't just about doing a favor granting a longtime player's trade request. Everybody over 25 needs to be on the table.
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What I don't understand is why they haven't traded Lyon. There's a million teams looking for relievers and Lyon has been pretty good this year. Okay, he's way overpaid, but the Yankees don't care about contracts. And it seems that they would be willing to trade Joba.
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Good point. And if they can't get good value, the shouldn't trade him. That being said, given his track record, I'm skeptical of whether the Grocer understands that this wasn't just about doing a favor granting a longtime player's trade request.
I think that overlooks the money involved. I have a hard time believing that Drayton coughed up $11 million as a favor to Roy. Especially given that he said he'd pony up if there was a significant prospect coming back. I guess I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, as it looks as though he's listening to Tal and Wade about rebuilding.
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Good point. And if they can't get good value, the shouldn't trade him. That being said, given his track record, I'm skeptical of whether the Grocer understands that this wasn't just about doing a favor granting a longtime player's trade request.
I'm coming around to the thinking that he's coming around. After all, when Berkman's gone -- be that tomorrow, Saturday or October -- Jeff Keppinger will be the gray beard (at 31 or so) in the infield. Next oldest? Tommy Manzella. So I think it's hard even for him to buy into the notion that they'll be Champions! anytime soon. Of course, with Pence in the outfield and Carlos Lee returning to 2007 form, and Chris Sampson rediscovering his sinker,...wow, I'm getting excited already!
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I think that overlooks the money involved. I have a hard time believing that Drayton coughed up $11 million as a favor to Roy. Especially given that he said he'd pony up if there was a significant prospect coming back. I guess I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, as it looks as though he's listening to Tal and Wade about rebuilding.
Which significant prospect?
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Which significant prospect?
Wallace.
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Wade did say in the PC that they had to do what was right for the club and that you couldn't make this kind of trade as a favor to a player.
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Does anyone think the deal would not have been done without the Wallace trade?
I think so. I mean, I hope so.
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At least the Astros have experience handling players totally lacking in plate discipline. He should fit right in.
Arky, did you miss the memo? They flipped Gose for Wallace. And yes, most of us in here think Wallace would qualify as a significant prospect, regardless of what we think Gose is.
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Wade said on the GM show this evening that they were discussing the Toronto spinoff last night, so it sounds like that was a very important part and without it there very likely would not have been a deal.
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Wallace.
Let's hope so. He certainly seems to have the best long-term upside of the three players acquired. It's not clear whether it's $11 million of upside.
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Does anyone think the deal would not have been done without the Wallace trade?
I think so. I mean, I hope so.
Of course not. Doesn't mean a different deal wouldn't have happened, but the Jays specifically wanted Gose. The Astros wouldn't have traded for him in particular without the deal being in place first.
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Arky, did you miss the memo? They flipped Gose for Wallace. And yes, most of us in here think Wallace would qualify as a significant prospect, regardless of what we think Gose is.
I did get the memo, but not before reading that HH's post a few hours ago, foolishly replying to it just now after it became irrelevant, and then deleting my post upon realizing my mistake. Yes, Gose-for-Wallace is clearly the key here. I'm not sure what Happ does for them in the long run.
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I did get the memo, but not before reading that HH's post a few hours ago and foolishly replying to it just now after it became irrelevant. Yes, Gose-for-Wallace is clearly the key here. I'm not sure what Happ does for them in the long run.
Happ will be the veteran mentor on the pitching staff in 2015 consisting of Lyles, Folty, Velasquez, and Alainz. Duh.
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Let's hope so. He certainly seems to have the best long-term upside of the three players acquired. It's not clear whether it's $11 million of upside.
I don't think any minor league player has $11 million in upside, but I do think it's easier to believe that the money is much more about investing in rebuilding than it is about doing favors. I think Drayton should be given credit for the time being, if only because there will be plenty of time to be critical later if this turns out to not be the beginning of a true rebuilding effort. Given the amount of money that he's been sinking into player development, I really think the transformation back to a properly run, baseball-first organization has been underway for a while.
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Has the $11 Mil # been confirmed?
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I did get the memo, but not before reading that HH's post a few hours ago, foolishly replying to it just now after it became irrelevant, and then deleting my post upon realizing my mistake. Yes, Gose-for-Wallace is clearly the key here. I'm not sure what Happ does for them in the long run.
Hey, they can always allow Happ to increase his value via on the field performance and then trade him for more prospects. You never know.
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Let's hope so. He certainly seems to have the best long-term upside of the three players acquired. It's not clear whether it's $11 million of upside.
Can't predict the future, but I don't think Happ can be discounted. He can arguably be considered a centerpiece as he did have an exceptional rookie year. Quite a bit better than Oswalt's 09. I realize he's not that young and might be gone by2013, but he was a good pitcher last year.
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I did get the memo, but not before reading that HH's post a few hours ago, foolishly replying to it just now after it became irrelevant, and then deleting my post upon realizing my mistake. Yes, Gose-for-Wallace is clearly the key here. I'm not sure what Happ does for them in the long run.
"Long run" is the operative term. The makeup of this club could be even more "developmental" (hopefully not "transitional") in nature in the next 36-48 hours than it is now. Maybe it's time for all of us to party like it's 1991.
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I'm on my fourth dogfish head so you'll have to forgive me for my french, but these motherfucking twatwaffle dickheads in the baseball punditry class can go choke on a bag of bubonic testicles.
Earlier in the week the Ed Wade is a fucking retard narrative went something like this: "OMG the Astros are soooo dumb! What in the fuck r they doing? Stupidheads! Don't they know Oswalt is not a premiere pitcher anymore? Not only are they asking too much in prospects, they're also too damn cheap to swallow any of the money owed to him. Clueless I tell ya! Ed Wade is a moron!"
Then, once the initial news broke that Oswalt had agreed to waive his NTC and accept the deal to Philly, every single fuckface bashing the front office for overvaluing Oswalt flipped the script and made it all about how horribly the Astros got played. "OMG the Astros r soooooo dumb! Not only did they not get any top prospects from Philly in return for a premier pitcher, they kicked 11 MILLION DOLLARS back to the Phillies! Clueless I tell ya! Ed Wade is a moron!"
It's times like this that I hate the internet, but love SnS.
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I don't think any minor league player has $11 million in upside, but I do think it's easier to believe that the money is much more about investing in rebuilding than it is about doing favors. I think Drayton should be given credit for the time being, if only because there will be plenty of time to be critical later if this turns out to not be the beginning of a true rebuilding effort. Given the amount of money that he's been sinking into player development, I really think the transformation back to a properly run, baseball-first organization has been underway for a while.
I hope so. It's hard not to be skeptical having watched this trainwreck roll down the track since 2006, while hearing McLane barking in the background, "we're going to be a champion this year." Watching the team disintegrate in the late '80s was not easy, and it took a long time to get back to contention in 1994 and even longer to actually get into the playoffs again in 1997. McLane brought this franchise its greatest success, but it's difficult to believe that he really accepts that the team needs to be rebuilt from the ground up to be competitive again. The longer he denies that reality, the longer the aimless mediocrity will last. Let's hope today signals his acceptance of what's to come rather than being just another attempt at reloading for short-term success.
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It's not clear whether it's $11 million of upside.
You look at it as an $11MM expense, but I'm looking at it more like a $12MM savings over the course of the next season and a half. If they'd kept Roy, they'd be on the hook for the rest of this year's salary (~$7MM), all of next year's ($16MM), and the buyout option ($2MM). With the trade that changes to $11MM plus whatever they're paying the three new guys (call it $2MM).
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Hey, they can always allow Happ to increase his value via on the field performance and then trade him for more prospects. You never know.
What I was thinking. It's not that he doesn't have value, he just might not have it when the Astros will be able to make the most of it.
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"Long run" is the operative term. The makeup of this club could be even more "developmental" (hopefully not "transitional") in nature in the next 36-48 hours than it is now. Maybe it's time for all of us to party like it's 1991.
Yes, let's hope so. I'd rather see a bunch of guys in development than a bunch of guys marking time.
Remember that it took five seasons after 1986 to finally bottom out in 1991, then another three seasons to contend again and then another three to make the postseason. Let's hope that timetable gets compressed. I'm not afraid of 2011 being like 1991. I'm afraid of it being like 1987-1990. The quicker the Astros bottom out, the better.
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I'm on my fourth dogfish head so you'll have to forgive me for my french, but these motherfucking twatwaffle dickheads in the baseball punditry class can go choke on a bag of bubonic testicles.
Earlier in the week the Ed Wade is a fucking retard narrative went something like this: "OMG the Astros are soooo dumb! What in the fuck r they doing? Stupidheads! Don't they know Oswalt is not a premiere pitcher anymore? Not only are they asking too much in prospects, they're also too damn cheap to swallow any of the money owed to him. Clueless I tell ya! Ed Wade is a moron!"
Then, once the initial news broke that Oswalt had agreed to waive his NTC and accept the deal to Philly, every single fuckface bashing the front office for overvaluing Oswalt flipped the script and made it all about how horribly the Astros got played. "OMG the Astros r soooooo dumb! Not only did they not get any top prospects from Philly in return for a premier pitcher, they kicked 11 MILLION DOLLARS back to the Phillies! Clueless I tell ya! Ed Wade is a moron!"
It's times like this that I hate the internet, but love SnS.
This was to be predicted. The Astros were damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Which is precisely why I don't read those guys except to try to pick up bits of news about where things might be heading.
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You look at it as an $11MM expense, but I'm looking at it more like a $12MM savings over the course of the next season and a half. If they'd kept Roy, they'd be on the hook for the rest of this year's salary (~$7MM), all of next year's ($16MM), and the buyout option ($2MM). With the trade that changes to $11MM plus whatever they're paying the three new guys (call it $2MM).
But this ignores what effect the $11 million had on the players they were getting or not getting. This assumes that the $11 million had to be part of the deal. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, but for that kind of money, I would think their bargaining power might've been better.
Look at it from the Phillies' perspective. For whatever they threw in to get the Astros to do the deal with the cash included, they basically got Oswalt for zero salary for the rest of this year and for $12 million next year. That's not too shabby.
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They have to at least get an offer worth more than a first round pick + a sandwich pick in next year's draft right?
Seems like they can win whether they trade him or not.
Myers is NOT going to be a Type-A free agent at the end of the year... [\bangs-head-against-wall-again]
I'm starting to come around on the possibility of him becoming a Type-B free agent though : Elais progressions: May 16 (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/05/elias-rankings-update.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MlbTradeRumors+(MLB+Trade+Rumors)) (Myers = 46.380, Type B cutoff = 59.690, Type A cutoff = 70.875); June 21 (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/06/elias-rankings-update-1.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MlbTradeRumors+(MLB+Trade+Rumors)) (Myers = 49.272, Type B Cutoff = 56.311, Type A cutoff = 69.981); and July 25 (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/elias-rankings-update-2.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+MlbTradeRumors+(MLB+Trade+Rumors)) (Myers = 56.463, Type B cutoff = 58.673, Type A cutoff = 71.514)
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Question for the the Bus-Riders: if Wallace was the key to this deal, why were the Jays willing to part with him for the small price of one of the minor-leaguers the Phillies threw into the deal, an outfielder who can't hit and can't see the strike zone? I'm not saying Wallace isn't a decent prospect or that he might not be the first baseman of the future, but it seems strange that Toronto thought he wasn't worth more than the deal scraps from the Houston-Philly piece. Do the Jays know something the Astros don't?
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But this ignores what effect the $11 million had on the players they were getting or not getting. This assumes that the $11 million had to be part of the deal. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, but for that kind of money, I would think their bargaining power might've been better.
"The Astros seemed set to send about $11 million to the Phillies as part of the deal. Amaro declined to specify the amount.
"That was an important part of this," Amaro said. "We wanted to keep some level of flexibility so we can continue to field a championship-caliber team. Yes, the money did make a difference."
Link (http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/13680348/oswalt-agrees-to-waive-notrade-clause-accept-deal-to-philly?tag=headlines;other)
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Question for the the Bus-Riders: if Wallace was the key to this deal, why were the Jays willing to part with him for the small price of one of the minor-leaguers the Phillies threw into the deal, an outfielder who can't hit and can't see the strike zone? I'm not saying Wallace isn't a decent prospect or that he might not be the first baseman of the future, but it seems strange that Toronto thought he wasn't worth more than the deal scraps from the Houston-Philly piece. Do the Jays know something the Astros don't?
Perhaps they think they have enough in Overbay and Lind to absorb the loss of their 1b of the future? They clearly like Gose. A lot.
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Question for the the Bus-Riders: if Wallace was the key to this deal, why were the Jays willing to part with him for the small price of one of the minor-leaguers the Phillies threw into the deal, an outfielder who can't hit and can't see the strike zone? I'm not saying Wallace isn't a decent prospect or that he might not be the first baseman of the future, but it seems strange that Toronto thought he wasn't worth more than the deal scraps from the Houston-Philly piece. Do the Jays know something the Astros don't?
Not meaning to be a smartass, but looking at the Jays' roster, I feel significantly better about the Astros roster. Make of that what you wish, but I concluded that they either see their future much further out OR they are clueless.
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Question for the the Bus-Riders: if Wallace was the key to this deal, why were the Jays willing to part with him for the small price of one of the minor-leaguers the Phillies threw into the deal, an outfielder who can't hit and can't see the strike zone? I'm not saying Wallace isn't a decent prospect or that he might not be the first baseman of the future, but it seems strange that Toronto thought he wasn't worth more than the deal scraps from the Houston-Philly piece. Do the Jays know something the Astros don't?
Toronto traded from what *they* think is a strength to fill a weakness. That is what they're saying and all along, no one that has had Wallace in their system has said he's a bust waiting to happen. He's just a great bargaining chip to get what you want.
The Jays might have shipped out a solid first base prospect, but they have a glut of corner outfield/DH-type hitters in Adam Lind, Fred Lewis, Travis Snider, Jose Bautista, and even current center fielder, Vernon Wells.
Wells and his mammoth contract will be around for several more years and both Lewis and Bautista could be kept around at low cost for a few years as well. That would seem to leave Lind and Snider looking for a spot to play and first base might just end up being a home for one of them.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/426953-blue-jays-send-brett-wallace-to-houston-in-surprise-trade-deadline-move
The Cardinals traded Wallace because he was never going to see the light of day in the majors behind Pujols. Seems the Jays were looking for a speedy CF, they found one in prospect Gose, and while we can take *numbers* from a A ball player and make assumptions, it's kind of foolish to do that. What they're saying is that the kid is a raw 19 year old talent that could turn out to be really good. In a A ball prospect trade, you have to trust scouts more than stats and the age of 19 is also a factor to trust what you see more than what you read (in a stat). Houston with Michael Bourn already in the bigs and Jay Austin in the minors did not need Gose. That was the head scratching that went on, not that Gose was a horrible prospect. Obviously Houston did their homework (and Ed Wade knows the Phillie minor league system) and he plucked the right guy to flip over to the Jays for a really solid, almost ready for the majors top of the line prospect.
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Perhaps they think they have enough in Overbay and Lind to absorb the loss of their 1b of the future? They clearly like Gose. A lot.
*DING, DING, DING*
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Toronto traded from what *they* think is a strength to fill a weakness.
Yeah, someone in here mentioned that the Jays really coveted Gose and had wanted him included in the Halladay deal. Wallace, meanwhile, is just another guy projected to hit .301 with 40 doubles, score and drive in over 100 runs, and have a .360 OBP. Maybe the Jays have guys like that. Only the Astros don't have anyone else in their system projected to do anything like this who is also close to being MLB-ready.
So it's easy to see this as a win-win. Of course, the punditry assumes that someone has to get fleeced in every deal.
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Yeah, someone in here mentioned that the Jays really coveted Gose and had wanted him included in the Halladay deal. Wallace, meanwhile, is just another guy projected to hit .301 with 40 doubles, score and drive in over 100 runs, and have a .360 OBP. Maybe the Jays have guys like that. Only the Astros don't have anyone else in their system projected to do anything like this who is also close to being MLB-ready.
So it's easy to see this as a win-win. Of course, the punditry assumes that someone has to get fleeced in every deal.
It sells on the concourse, so it's not all the fault of the punditry. They know their audience.
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*DING, DING, DING*
I'm guessing that TOR may see Travis Snider as a player that might fall into that group as well.
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It sells on the concourse, so it's not all the fault of the punditry. They know their audience.
True. I forgot to add: 30 HR. Now all this has happened in Las Vegas. Let's hope *this* doesn't stay in Las Vegas.
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Exactly.
As a bonus, this deal also provides a nice infusion of talent at SS as well. I'm have no problems with a combo of Hernandez/Sanchez/Manzella holding down the fort for a couple of years until one of Villar, Mier, Player X asserts themselves as a long-term solution.
I can't speak for others, but my goal for 2010 was to make a true commitment to rebuilding by the trade deadline.
your goal? who the hell are you?
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I'm guessing that TOR may see Travis Snider as a player that might fall into that group as well.
Some Toronto pundits think Snider and Wallace were clones of each other. Wallace was a luxury in some ways and perhaps his lack of defensive skills made him much more expendable. Bird in the hand sort of thing.
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Question for the the Bus-Riders: if Wallace was the key to this deal, why were the Jays willing to part with him for the small price of one of the minor-leaguers the Phillies threw into the deal, an outfielder who can't hit and can't see the strike zone? I'm not saying Wallace isn't a decent prospect or that he might not be the first baseman of the future, but it seems strange that Toronto thought he wasn't worth more than the deal scraps from the Houston-Philly piece. Do the Jays know something the Astros don't?
He's very athletic, very fast, very good defensively, and has a very strong arm. He's raw with the bat. The Jays think that will come, and that he will be a GG centerfielder with high level leadoff skills. Think Bourn hitting .300 with .390 obp every year.
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Yeah, someone in here mentioned that the Jays really coveted Gose and had wanted him included in the Halladay deal. Wallace, meanwhile, is just another guy projected to hit .301 with 40 doubles, score and drive in over 100 runs, and have a .360 OBP. Maybe the Jays have guys like that. Only the Astros don't have anyone else in their system projected to do anything like this who is also close to being MLB-ready.
So it's easy to see this as a win-win. Of course, the punditry assumes that someone has to get fleeced in every deal.
Exactly. The stros have been drafting "toolsy" guys with high ceilings and low floors by virtue of their age. Gose is another one of those guys. From what I've read, the Jays have a dearth of those "toolsy" guys. They traded from a position of perceived strength to fill a perceived weakness, as did the Astros. Not sure what is hard to get about this (not directed at you CC). The Jays scouts targeted Gose a long time ago from the feedback on the Halladay post-mortem. The Astros obviously trust their scouts as well. Maybe we laymen should give it a try. I, personally, wouldn't have thought the stros needed to throw in 11 millski for this particular deal but that is what the market dictated. Maybe the team just really wanted to move on from Roy. It's done. Let's wait and see how it plays out.
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i am hoping Happ goes 7 tomorrow night. that will shut some of this stuff up.
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i am hoping Happ goes 7 tomorrow night. that will shut some of this stuff up.
Happ, if healthy, could have nice seasons this year and for years to come. The main question I have is not about Happ or any of the other players, or even about the ability of Wade and the scouts to evaluate them. It's about whether McLane is committed to long-term rebuilding or whether he thinks he can tinker a bit and get back to contention immediately. It's not heresy to question the intentions of an owner who's been known to take his marketing department's advice over that of his trained and experienced baseball men. Whatever Wade does, he has the owner to answer to. Wade can't be held responsible for that.
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Interesting comment from Buster Onley tonight. Basically, he said the following "There were a lot of teams who, when they heard of the Phillie deal in principle, said "Hey, had we known Oswalt was basically only going to cost 8 million dollars, we would have taken a more serious approach to try and get him". Okay, several things bothered me about this reporting by Olney:
1. Why are major league organizations getting information about things like this from rumor mills and ESPN reports instead of, you know, actually talking to Houston?
2. Isn't Onley basically saying that all that rumor mongering about Drayton McLane being an owner who will hold out for the other team taking all of Oswalt's contract was false speculation, and of course Onley was part of that whole thing?
In the end, Onley said "No matter what any of those teams say, the Astros worked hard to get a *other* teams to get involved in a trade for Oswalt. They were the ones who made concessions."
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Interesting comment from Buster Onley tonight. Basically, he said the following "There were a lot of teams who, when they heard of the Phillie deal in principle, said "Hey, had we known Oswalt was basically only going to cost 8 million dollars, we would have taken a more serious approach to try and get him". Okay, several things bothered me about this reporting by Olney:
1. Why are major league organizations getting information about things like this from rumor mills and ESPN reports?
2. Isn't Onley basically saying that all that rumor mongering about Drayton McLane being an owner who will hold out for the other team taking all of Oswalt's contract was false speculation, and of course Onley was part of that whole thing?
In the end, Onley said "No matter what any of those teams say, the Astros worked hard to get a *other* teams to get involved in a trade for Oswalt. They were the ones who made concessions."
teams will say anything after the fact.
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teams will say anything after the fact.
Yeah, basically when the report was "... and the Astros kicked in 11 million dollars...", all of a sudden some heads turned right at the direction of those MLB Execs who convinced their people there was no need to deal with the Astros because of McLane. Those guys had the nerve to tell Onley "Hey, we didn't know!" Buncha idiots trying to convince themselves they didn't make a mistake to not return Houston's calls. When the report came out today from Onley that two teams (the Cardinals and Padres) tried to get *serious* about a deal with Houston but it was too late, I just laughed.
Oh, *NOW* you're serious, eh? The Phillies worked with the Astros, got the concession they needed because Houston is ready to turn the page and this trade reflects that (and I believe another trade will be made by Saturday and yes, I believe Berkman will be gone too). If teams that are run by professionals can't do the most simplest thing when it comes to talking business, then they have no one to blame but themselves.
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Yeah, basically when the report was "... and the Astros kicked in 11 million dollars...", all of a sudden some heads turned right at the direction of those MLB Execs who convinced their people there was no need to deal with the Astros because of McLane. Those guys had the nerve to tell Onley "Hey, we didn't know!" Buncha idiots trying to convince themselves they didn't make a mistake to not return Houston's calls. When the report came out today from Onley that two teams (the Cardinals and Padres) tried to get *serious* about a deal with Houston but it was too late, I just laughed.
Oh, *NOW* you're serious, eh? The Phillies worked with the Astros, got the concession they needed because Houston is ready to turn the page and this trade reflects that (and I believe another trade will be made by Saturday and yes, I believe Berkman will be gone too). If teams that are run by professionals can't do the most simplest thing when it comes to talking business, then they have no one to blame but themselves.
Saturday may not be the end to this in any case. Some of these guys may clear waivers.
I wonder what McLane would pony up to move Carlos Lee. That's the piece that really needs to move to free up everything else and let the rebuilding really get rolling.
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Saturday may not be the end to this in any case. Some of these guys may clear waivers.
I wonder what McLane would pony up to move Carlos Lee. That's the piece that really needs to move to free up everything else and let the rebuilding really get rolling.
It would be fun to put Lee on waivers and if someone claims him, the Astros say "He's all yours... no backsies!"
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It would be fun to put Lee on waivers and if someone claims him, the Astros say "He's all yours... no backsies!"
Lee might clear waivers faster than he clears his plate.
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Obviously there isn't much market(if any) for Lee, but you might be able to get the Angels, Giants, or Red Sox to consider a deal. You would need to take on Kazmir's contract with Anaheim, Rowand with the Giants, and Drew or Lackey with the Red Sox.
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The market for Oswalt was diminished by the Astros' insistence they receive at least one Major League player in the deal, and Wade said the action began to heat up after Cliff Lee was traded to the Texas Rangers from the Seattle Mariners a few weeks ago.
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100729&content_id=12760192&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou
Why? Why would they insist on this and thereby diminish the market? So they have a major-leaguer from the deal that they can show off as a trophy now? So Pam can sell marginally more tickets in the short run?
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Wait a second...Happ is starting tonight? Let me fire up the jet. Get me 16, no 17 tickets in the Diamond Club.
And a sooooveenurteeshart.
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your goal? who the hell are you?
My goal for 2010 was to finish the master bathroom remodel. That was done in April, so everything from here on out is pure gravy.
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I wonder what McLane would pony up to move Carlos Lee. That's the piece that really needs to move to free up everything else and let the rebuilding really get rolling.
I don't think you could trade Lee without paying every last cent of his contract. And even then, it would be hard.
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Sorry folk. Been drunk for a few hours. What did I miss?
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Sorry folk. Been drunk for a few hours. What did I miss?
We put saran wrap on your toilet while you were passed out.
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Sorry folk. Been drunk for a few hours. What did I miss?
The centerpiece of the deal, Wallace can't walk. The SS prospect can't hit and the Astros thought about spending $11 million dollars in Latin player development but decidedto give it to Philly instead.
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The centerpiece of the deal, Wallace can't walk. The SS prospect can't hit and the Astros thought about spending $11 million dollars in Latin player development but decidedto give it to Philly instead.
Bravo
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The centerpiece of the deal, Wallace can't walk. The SS prospect can't hit and the Astros thought about spending $11 million dollars in Latin player development but decidedto give it to Philly instead.
And Roy finally found that tube of Vagisil (TM) hed been looking for.
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The centerpiece of the deal, Wallace can't walk. The SS prospect can't hit and the Astros thought about spending $11 million dollars in Latin player development but decidedto give it to Philly instead.
I thought the $11 million was for presents under Drayton's Christmas tree. [/heterodoxy]
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teams will say anything after the fact.
and many reporters will say just about anything in spite of a fact...
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That's fantastic news. Anyone hear from their sources whether Wallace can pour piss from a boot?
You and HH both will be relieved to know I ran across this excerpt from an audio stream by a Willie something or other, detailing his overall scouting report:
PPFBR: 0.96 (This is his Pour Piss From Boot Ratio) - "So only 4 times out of every hundred will there be spillage, leakage or inadequate volume recovery in this young man's pours. As long as he stays above the 0.90 threshold, he should be able to locate and step on first base equally well with either foot. His greatest tool, however, is his height. At 6'2", he should carry sufficient VZR (vertical zone ratio) to be able to block, knock down and even catch a fair percentage of the attempted throws toward home sailing in from right field.
"Conclusion: While offensively he sprays to all fields with plus plus power, his flaccid output on the field means that, as a leftfielder he projects top-end ability of a Ryan Braun-ish skillset (i.e. will 7 times out of 10 locate the wall behind him and hit one of the cutoff men if they're spread out evenly), but will most likely settle into something approaching a visually impaired Rafael Soriano. Even though his makeup is not a complete defensive void, he is destined to be a first baseman in the mold of Gil Hodges, in that he will wear his mitt on the same hand.
"Note: Although the PPFBR test doesn't actually involve bases, gloves, balls or bats, clinical research has proven that in blind studies involving a random set of Doc Maartens, pouring piss from a boot at a 90% success ratio translates to effective catching of throws 12-18X per game (9 innings maximum), safely throwing around the horn, and more often than not remembering to bring a ball with one's mitt on the field each time for infield practice."
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MLBTR adds some more details of what the Astros were after/offered by other clubs
The Astros wanted Chad Billingsley in exchange for Roy Oswalt, according to Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times (Twitter link). The Dodgers countered with a four-prospect offer, but the Astros preferred the Phils' offer.
Link (http://"http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/odds-ends-2.html")
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MLBTR adds some more details of what the Astros were after/offered by other clubs
Link (http://"http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/odds-ends-2.html")
Clearly, if the Astros were going to get either an MLB or MLB-ready starter, it would have to be someone like Happ, i.e. a guy who would be in most rotations but has been trying to come back from injury or can't seem to crack the top five for some reason. I mean, why would a contending team want to trade one of their starters simply to get another one? Makes me think this is more noise, or that Wade and co. were not anticipating those negotiations would go very far because they didn't like their prospects as much Philly's. I thought they also wanted James Loney/Matt Kemp. Again, what would be the point of the Dodgers surrendering talent they're counting on?
I'm not sure whom to believe anymore. Other than Footer, of course.
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MLBTR adds some more details of what the Astros were after/offered by other clubs
Link (http://"http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/07/odds-ends-2.html")
the Phillies did not want to give up the CFer we sent to get Wallace but they had to in order to get the deal done.
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the Phillies did not want to give up the CFer we sent to get Wallace but they had to in order to get the deal done.
Of course, if we'd only informed the Padres of our true intentions earlier we could have had Latos and two or three of their top prospects. And I'm sure St. Louis would have kicked in Rasmus. Just ask ESPN.