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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: jmontessi on July 08, 2009, 12:01:17 pm
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I don't understand why we have him batting behind Blum lately. I'm sure someone more versed in lineup construction sees something I don't, so please; enlighten.
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Look, if Blum writes Pence into the lineup as batting 7th then that's just the Manager's decision.
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I don't understand why we have him batting behind Blum lately. I'm sure someone more versed in lineup construction sees something I don't, so please; enlighten.
Two reasons:
1) Cecil
2) Cooper
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You mean 6th? That's right, Geoff Blum is the #5 hitter.
My guess is it's some kind of fanatical devotion to being able to go L/R/L/R/L/R/L/R with the batting order. Of course, Pence hasn't really been making a strong argument lately that he should bat higher.
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"Just trying to shake things up. It's my job to move things around until something works for a while."
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You mean 6th? That's right, Geoff Blum is the #5 hitter.
Sorry, yes 6th. Wow. Even worse when you say it like that, putting Blum in the 5 hole seems even more egregious.
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You mean 6th? That's right, Geoff Blum is the #5 hitter.
Pence hasn't really been making a strong argument lately that he should bat higher.
.257 in June and .182 in July. His walks are down compared to his strikeouts, which were about even in Mar-May. And he's started swinging at the slider again.
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"Just trying to shake things up. It's my job to move things around until something works for a while."
Dear Cecil,
I haven't got to bat in the first, fourth and ninth spots in the order yet. Geoff says no. Can you talk to Pam for me?
Thanks,
Hunter
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Sorry, yes 6th. Wow. Even worse when you say it like that, putting Blum in the 5 hole seems even more egregious.
The 5-hole thing is a byproduct of having your regular 5-hole guy bat 2nd, while your #2 bats 7th or 8th. Otherwise, it would be the 6th vs 7th thing, like you brought up originally. The overall 'why' answer goes back to Andy's response. I think that covers everything.
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I'm sure some of the same things that make Pence a lower middle of the lineup hitter in the past are in vogue now. Meaning he is too much of a free swinger for the upper part of the lineup, however he can provide some run producing power hitting. It speaks to being a #6 hitter for pretty his prowess as a hitter. Having said that, the other reasons he may be hitting in that spot is because of the propensity for opposing pitchers to decide to pitch around the true middle of the lineup hitters.
IOW - if Bourn and Tejada fail to get on, then a pitcher has no need to pitch to a Berkman and Lee. Berkman, for his part, will take the walk if necessary, leaving the onus to bring him or Lee in on the 5 and 6 hitters. If you don't have a quality stick at those spots, then you're going to get some pitchers who will never give anything to Lee and Berkman. Now, if Bourn and Tejada do get on, then a pitcher has to think that he still has Berkman and Lee (more disciplined hitters) to face rather than a free swinger who can possibly reward him with an out with such an approach. Makes facing Berkman and Lee easier, or less painful.
The other thing is what JA mentioned, Tejada is just hitting too well right now and doing an great job as a #2 to consider moving him and Pence (swaping one for the other). Plus, it bears repeating, Pence is his own worse enemy when he starts to swing at everything thrown at him. At his best, Pence forced the pitcher to come to him and Gunther thus made strides towards being an elite hitter. As is, if the opposing pitcher doesn't make mistakes with him and they do sometimes, Pence will have to prove once again he ain't swinging at just anything. Right now, he's a very good mistake hitter and to make an opposing pitcher prone to making mistakes is to put Pence in situations that will allow for such challenges.
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6th is where he would be in my lineup. no higher.
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6th is where he would be in my lineup. no higher.
Even if that means Geoff Blum has to bat 5th?
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Even if that means Geoff Blum has to bat 5th?
Ask yourself this: Based on approach, who is a better hitter at number 5? Consider it in it's entirety before you answer. Also, consider that perhaps Tejada should be at number 5 as well.
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6th is where he would be in my lineup. no higher.
Right. Pence has been a #6 hitter since Day One. Where Cooper chooses to put him in the order that day is irrelevant to this fact.
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Ask yourself this: Based on approach, who is a better hitter at number 5? Consider it in it's entirety before you answer. Also, consider that perhaps Tejada should be at number 5 as well.
That would be my answer.
I'm a bit unsure what Pence's approach is at this point in his career. he seemed to be adopting a pretty good one, well-suited for a #5 hitter, earlier this year, but obviously of late he's been all over the place, and many many 6-3 outs seems to be the result. So right now he's not your ideal #5 guy, but over a long-term period if Blum is your team's #5 hitter I'd say you might have some problems.
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6th is where he would be in my lineup. no higher.
Yep. Too undisciplined to be any higher.
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ask noe that always seems to find the proper answer
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I don't understand why we have him batting behind Blum lately. I'm sure someone more versed in lineup construction sees something I don't, so please; enlighten.
Cooper obviously reads the site, and saw that Blum is the 07/2009 Spike Award Winner. Enough said!
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Bourn
Matsui/Kata/Keppinger
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Pence
Blum/Keppinger
Rodriguez/Quintero
Pitcher
this is the lineup. someone tell Cooper.
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Limey just said he read the site, you're golden now Jim.
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Bourn
Matsui/Kata/Keppinger
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Pence
Blum/Keppinger
Rodriguez/Quintero
Pitcher
this is the lineup. someone tell Cooper.
That's actually the only one he hasn't tried, I think. I figured with as much shuffling as he does, he'd just land on it accidentally at some point, but we're halfway through and...
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Bourn
Matsui/Kata/Keppinger
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Pence
Blum/Keppinger
Rodriguez/Quintero
Pitcher
this is the lineup. someone tell Cooper.
Makes a lot of sense to me.
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Bourn
Matsui/Kata/Keppinger
Berkman
Lee
Tejada
Pence
Blum/Keppinger
Rodriguez/Quintero
Pitcher
this is the lineup. someone tell Cooper.
I've been telling him this is his lineup since Spring Training. He never listens to me.
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I've been telling him this is his lineup since Spring Training. He never listens to me.
you, Noe and i all year--i thought he'd at least listen to Noe.
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you, Noe and i all year--i thought he'd at least listen to Noe.
Which, of course, is altogether a different kind of scary... for everyone involved! I, however, do subscribe to the tried and true "squirrel finds nut, film at 10" theory. In this case, moreso moi than Coop. I guess I'm a better squirrel... plus I sat next to Hudson at OD, so osmosis and HH yelling at Cooper for three solid innings will work too.