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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: pravata on May 06, 2008, 12:08:45 pm

Title: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: pravata on May 06, 2008, 12:08:45 pm
Ken Davidoff, NY Newsday

Astros owner Drayton McLane told me that he and team president Tal Smith met with Roger Clemens and his agents, Alan and Randy Hendricks, last December, following the release of the Mitchell Report.

The issue about Clemens pitching in 2008 came up. "They were totally undecided," McLane said. "They said they'd let us know when they were ready to talk."
http://blogs.trb.com/sports/baseball/blog/2008/05/the_astros_had_interest_in_sig.html

"Your heart aches for him, for what has happened. Particularly in the last week," Astros owner Drayton McLane told Newsday in a telephone interview. "But Roger is very resilient, and he lives on."
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-sproger065675394may06,0,5659236.story
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: MusicMan on May 06, 2008, 12:43:41 pm
"Your heart aches for him, for what has happened. Particularly in the last week," Astros owner Drayton McLane told Newsday in a telephone interview.

Ummm... why, exactly?
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: JaneDoe on May 06, 2008, 12:45:52 pm

"Your heart aches for him,

What a neck-deep load of steaming bullshit.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: austro on May 06, 2008, 01:00:59 pm
What a neck-deep load of steaming bullshit.

McClane has a substantial amount invested in that personal services contract. He's trying to save the brand.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: MusicMan on May 06, 2008, 01:04:06 pm
McClane has a substantial amount invested in that personal services contract. He's trying to save the brand.

He's closing the barn door after the entire barn has burned to the ground.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: JaneDoe on May 06, 2008, 01:06:31 pm
McClane has a substantial amount invested in that personal services contract. He's trying to save the brand.

So its expensive bullshit.  Still bullshit.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Taras Bulba on May 06, 2008, 01:10:22 pm
So its expensive bullshit.  Still bullshit.

Might see some of that bullshit on the mound if Houston is in semi-contention come August.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: MusicMan on May 06, 2008, 01:11:34 pm
Might see some of that bullshit on the mound if Houston is in semi-contention come August.

About the only thing that could make me ignore an Astros penant run.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: JaneDoe on May 06, 2008, 01:20:11 pm
Might see some of that bullshit on the mound if Houston is in semi-contention come August.

Oh God help us.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: ValpoCory on May 06, 2008, 01:23:01 pm
About the only thing that could make me ignore an Astros penant run.

Sadly, that is also about the only thing that could make the country care about an Astros pennant run.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: tophfar on May 06, 2008, 01:25:24 pm
Sadly, that is also about the only thing that could make the country care about an Astros pennant run.

Well then I hope we continue to be ignored for the rest of the year then.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Andyzipp on May 06, 2008, 01:31:01 pm
I know that this is going to sound weird coming from me, but is it impossible that Drayton and Roger are actually friends and Drayton actually cares for his well being?
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: MusicMan on May 06, 2008, 01:45:48 pm
I know that this is going to sound weird coming from me, but is it impossible that Drayton and Roger are actually friends and Drayton actually cares for his well being?

Sure, but what part of this has Roger not brought upon himself?  If he had said, "My heart aches for his family", I would have no problem with that.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Andyzipp on May 06, 2008, 01:47:50 pm
Sure, but what part of this has Roger not brought upon himself?  If he had said, "My heart aches for his family", I would have no problem with that.

Assume they are friends...Drayton could ache for the pain his friend is in, self-inflicted or not. 

Besides, I'm sure Drayton could have skeletons he doesn't want to see dancing around CNN/ESPN.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: JackAstro on May 06, 2008, 01:48:29 pm
I know that this is going to sound weird coming from me, but is it impossible that Drayton and Roger are actually friends and Drayton actually cares for his well being?

Oh, Andy. Poor thing. He told you he cared about you when he hugged you, didn't he? And you believed him. Shh, shh... it's OK. It's OK.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Noe on May 06, 2008, 01:53:17 pm
Besides, I'm sure Drayton could have skeletons he doesn't want to see dancing around CNN/ESPN.

You mean like his annual trip to Poland?  Is that illegal?
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Andyzipp on May 06, 2008, 01:56:16 pm
You mean like his annual trip to Poland?  Is that illegal?

More like killing hookers...but what billionaire hasn't killed a hooker?
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: MusicMan on May 06, 2008, 01:57:26 pm
Oh, Andy. Poor thing. He told you he cared about you when he hugged you, didn't he? And you believed him. Shh, shh... it's OK. It's OK.

"Uncle Drayton would always lay out a belt, a stick, and a wrench on the kitchen table, and just say "choose".  I'd choose the wrench.  Why?  Cause fuck him, that's why."
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: jbm on May 06, 2008, 02:09:56 pm
McClane has a substantial amount invested in that personal services contract. He's trying to save the brand.

I was wondering the last few days if that contract is in jeopardy.  Isn't the main point from Drayton's side to benefit from a positive association?  Does Roger still provide a positive association?  Is he really that loved in Houston?
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: strosrays on May 06, 2008, 05:50:28 pm
I trust McLane about as far as Mindy McCready could throw him.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Dobro on May 06, 2008, 06:03:06 pm
I trust McLane about as far as Mindy McCready could throw him.
What has McLane ever done, other than field a competitive baseball team, that would lead you to not trust him?
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: strosrays on May 06, 2008, 06:25:08 pm
What has McLane ever done, other than field a competitive baseball team, that would lead you to not trust him?

There isn't time for all of it, but the situation surrounding the firing of Garner and Purpura and its aftermath is as good a place to start as any.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Bench on May 06, 2008, 06:37:54 pm
What has McLane ever done, other than field a competitive baseball team, that would lead you to not trust him?

Weaned on the teat of Sam Walton? Amassed a fortune as a business tycoon? These are people one should inherently not trust when they smile at you.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Dobro on May 06, 2008, 10:37:06 pm
There isn't time for all of it, but the situation surrounding the firing of Garner and Purpura and its aftermath is as good a place to start as any.

So you didn't agree with the firing and now McLane isn't trustworthy?
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Arky Vaughan on May 07, 2008, 12:33:37 am
McClane has a substantial amount invested in that personal services contract. He's trying to save the brand.

How much does he have invested in the contract? Does the contract contain a moral turpitude clause? Can Clemens perform under the contract behind bars?
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: JimR on May 07, 2008, 07:38:58 am
So you didn't agree with the firing and now McLane isn't trustworthy?

Dobro returns with his private agenda intact. he has been all the Phillies' board all season thus far going after Lidge.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Taras Bulba on May 07, 2008, 08:23:06 am
Weaned on the teat of Sam Walton? Amassed a fortune as a business tycoon? These are people one should inherently not trust when they smile at you.

Oh, boy.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: JimR on May 07, 2008, 08:58:59 am
Weaned on the teat of Sam Walton? Amassed a fortune as a business tycoon? These are people one should inherently not trust when they smile at you.

ridiculous.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: BudGirl on May 07, 2008, 09:01:21 am
Weaned on the teat of Sam Walton? Amassed a fortune as a business tycoon? These are people one should inherently not trust when they smile at you.

You know, some people are smart and work hard.  Therefore, their efforts get rewarded.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Col. Sphinx Drummond on May 07, 2008, 09:02:50 am
Weaned on the teat of Sam Walton? Amassed a fortune as a business tycoon? These are people one should inherently not trust when they smile at you.

When someone asks "how you doing?" They really don't want to know how you are doing. And it's a crime to drive over the speed limit.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: S.P. Rodriguez on May 07, 2008, 09:04:43 am
Come on PEOPLE!  Everyone KNOWS the Capitalist/Industrialist quasi-aristocracy dogs are inherently EVIL (best pronounced EEEEEEEEEEVIIIIIIIIIILLLLL)!

Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Andyzipp on May 07, 2008, 09:17:54 am
Respectfully to strosrays, I don't find McLane to be dishonest.  I do find him to be stubborn and impetuous, and I think he tends to take fan/sports talk criticism too personally.

These things have led to some questionable decisions.  But I have no reason to think he lies unnecessarily about the Astros.

Other than the whole crying poor thing.  Which I'm pretty sure the MLB Ownership fraternity requires as a condition of membership.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Gizzmonic on May 07, 2008, 09:26:25 am
You can make a million bucks honestly, but can you make a billion honestly?

Drayton is a shrewd businessman who's amassed a fortune.  He didn't get that way by playing nice.  His folksy, gee-shucks image is precisely that, an image.

Come on PEOPLE!  Everyone KNOWS the Capitalist/Industrialist quasi-aristocracy dogs are inherently EVIL (best pronounced EEEEEEEEEEVIIIIIIIIIILLLLL)!


Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Bench on May 07, 2008, 09:29:17 am
Oh, boy.

What? Sarcasm isn't allowed anymore?
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Taras Bulba on May 07, 2008, 09:32:47 am
What? Sarcasm isn't allowed anymore?

Not. That. Early. In. The. Morning.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Col. Sphinx Drummond on May 07, 2008, 09:36:21 am
You can make a million bucks honestly, but can you make a billion honestly?

Drayton is a shrewd businessman who's amassed a fortune.  He didn't get that way by playing nice.  His folksy, gee-shucks image is precisely that, an image.


But what is dishonest about being shrewd? I don't believe they are co-dependent. Are you saying that everyone who seems down to earth yet amasses a fortune is an asshole putting up a front? Cause I couldn't disagree more. People in those positions have to insulate themselves to a degree but that has more to do with how others behave, not them.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: austro on May 07, 2008, 09:37:26 am
How much does he have invested in the contract? Does the contract contain a moral turpitude clause? Can Clemens perform under the contract behind bars?

This article (http://www.nypost.com/seven/02292008/sports/astros_to_roger_clemens__stay_home_99863.htm) says that it's a 10-year, $3M contract (which is less than I originally thought; in my mind I had confused the years with the money).  I'd be very surprised to find Clemens behind bars, but I wouldn't be surprised to find his image so tarnished that the personal services he can offer are pretty limited.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Outlawscotty on May 07, 2008, 09:39:19 am
But what is dishonest about being shrewd? I don't believe they are co-dependent. Are you saying that everyone who seems down to earth yet amasses a fortune is an asshole putting up a front? Cause I couldn't disagree more. People in those positions have to insulate themselves to a degree but that has more to do with how others behave, not them.

Yeah....take Mark Cuban for instance..
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Andyzipp on May 07, 2008, 10:11:06 am
Yeah....take Mark Cuban for instance..

Cuban is a very intelligent stupid person.  Plus he's made his money on the ideas of others.  His strength is marketing.  He's the Madonna of Technology.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Outlawscotty on May 07, 2008, 10:28:39 am
Cuban is a very intelligent stupid person.  Plus he's made his money on the ideas of others.  His strength is marketing.  He's the Madonna of Technology.

Fair enough; ok, some of them don't put up fronts.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: S.P. Rodriguez on May 07, 2008, 10:31:50 am
Cuban is a very intelligent stupid person.  Plus he's made his money on the ideas of others.  His strength is marketing.  He's the Madonna of Technology.

Thank you for saying it so clearly.  I'm tired of hearing how Cuban is an IT genius.  He is not.  His other start up efforts have not faired nearly as well, not that this is a huge criticism.  And now, I understand he's jumped into the MMA organizational arena.  I suspect, with this one, he will finally add to his wealth, unlike his other recent ventures.  More power to him.  Just don't mistake him for some IT start up Guru.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: pravata on May 07, 2008, 10:34:05 am
Respectfully to strosrays, I don't find McLane to be dishonest.  I do find him to be stubborn and impetuous, and I think he tends to take fan/sports talk criticism too personally.

"Successful" people tend to think they got where they are because they're so smart.  This sometimes leads them to think that they are smarter than everyone else, about everything.  That's why Mclane is to be watched closely.  He's making decisions on things that he knows nothing about, or he's taking advice from people who have different agendas, which is the same thing.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Randy Watson on May 07, 2008, 10:57:51 am
McLane has his faults as a baseball owner, but overall has done a very nice job. 

To my knowledge he is an honorable person.  My granddad started and ran a Houston grocery chain for 30+ years.  He did a lot of business with McLane.  In fact, my granddad was the one who suggested to McLane that he buy the Astros when my grandad's investor group's offer was rejected by McMullen.  They were good friends.  My granddad had a very high opinion of McLane's character -- he told me that McLane was the type of man who was very trustworthy and whose handshake promise would stick. 

Any public figure, especially someone as wealthy as McLane, is going to get criticized by anonymous internet posters who claim to have personal knowledge of all his shadowy secrets.  (Of course they lack proof to substantiate such claims and often refuse to even detail the vague/unsubstantiated claims.)
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: pravata on May 07, 2008, 11:01:54 am
McLane has his faults as a baseball owner, but overall has done a very nice job. 

To my knowledge he is an honorable person.  My granddad started and ran a Houston grocery chain for 30+ years.  He did a lot of business with McLane.  In fact, my granddad was the one who suggested to McLane that he buy the Astros when my grandad's investor group's offer was rejected by McMullen.  They were good friends.  My granddad had a very high opinion of McLane's character -- he told me that McLane was the type of man who was very trustworthy and whose handshake promise would stick. 

Any public figure, especially someone as wealthy as McLane, is going to get criticized by anonymous internet posters who claim to have personal knowledge of all his shadowy secrets.  (Of course they lack proof to substantiate such claims and often refuse to even detail the vague/unsubstantiated claims.)

Which vague/unsubstantiated claims are those?  I have in-laws who worked with him on the ag commission, they don't think highly of him.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Col. Sphinx Drummond on May 07, 2008, 12:00:11 pm
McLane has his faults as a baseball owner, but overall has done a very nice job. 

To my knowledge he is an honorable person.  My granddad started and ran a Houston grocery chain for 30+ years. 


Randalls? Robert Onstead was a honorable person, imo.
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Dobro on May 07, 2008, 12:37:19 pm
  My granddad had a very high opinion of McLane's character -- he told me that McLane was the type of man who was very trustworthy and whose handshake promise would stick. 

Everyone that I know, who knows or has dealt with Drayton McLane, holds the same opinion. 
Title: Re: Astros approached Clemens
Post by: Randy Watson on May 07, 2008, 01:04:08 pm
Randalls? Robert Onstead was a honorable person, imo.

Yes.  And he was a very good man.