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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: pravata on February 04, 2008, 10:36:04 am
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Donald Fehr has heard rumors about the possibility U.S. authorities could deny or restrict work visas for foreign players mentioned in reports of use of performance-enhancing drugs.
"I just heard recently that an issue of that type had risen. Our position would be that players, from wherever they come, have to be treated the same as American players," Fehr told the Associated Press.
Link (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.bbnotes04feb04,0,5987004.story)
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Donald Fehr has heard rumors about the possibility U.S. authorities could deny or restrict work visas for foreign players mentioned in reports of use of performance-enhancing drugs.
"I just heard recently that an issue of that type had risen. Our position would be that players, from wherever they come, have to be treated the same as American players," Fehr told the Associated Press.
Link (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.bbnotes04feb04,0,5987004.story)
they have a constitutional right to be treated the same, imo.
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Can a work visa application be rejected for any reason, arbitrary or otherwise?
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Can a work visa application be rejected for any reason, arbitrary or otherwise?
dunno. i know constitutional law, not immigration law. the reasons for authorized rejection will be the big item.
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they have a constitutional right to be treated the same, imo.
Contstitutional protections generally extend to citizens, right?
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Contstitutional protections generally extend to citizens, right?
equal protection clause is to "persons."
Plyler v. Doe--alien schoolchildren, equal right to education
those children were here, of course. dunno re entry into country on work permit
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Donald Fehr has heard rumors about the possibility U.S. authorities could deny or restrict work visas for foreign players mentioned in reports of use of performance-enhancing drugs.
"I just heard recently that an issue of that type had risen. Our position would be that players, from wherever they come, have to be treated the same as American players," Fehr told the Associated Press.
How so? American players don't need work visas.
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How so? American players don't need work visas.
they also do not have their access to ST denied.
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Can a work visa application be rejected for any reason, arbitrary or otherwise?
I'm believe that re-entry to the country may be blocked, if the authorities so choose, because of allegations of felonious activity. It's the reason why I'm very careful to make sure that my activities never rise above the level of a misdemeanour.
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Donald Fehr has heard rumors about the possibility U.S. authorities could deny or restrict work visas for foreign players mentioned in reports of use of performance-enhancing drugs.
"I just heard recently that an issue of that type had risen. Our position would be that players, from wherever they come, have to be treated the same as American players," Fehr told the Associated Press.
Link (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.bbnotes04feb04,0,5987004.story)
I guess "reports" is the key in that statement. If it's the Mitchell Report, then I find it hard to believe that they would do anything without due process. If it's a federal investigation report, that may be different. Either way, it's gone well beyond what the commissioner and Mitchell himself wanted out of the report. One of the reasons the Mitchell Report is sometimes criticized is that it names names. I'm sure the answer to that is that the players had the right to come speak to Mitchell before he released the report. But Donald Fehr and the MLBPA advised them to stay away.
Now it looks like the advise is going to be very costly for players.
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I guess "reports" is the key in that statement. If it's the Mitchell Report, then I find it hard to believe that they would do anything without due process.
Any player here would be subject to due process. Any player out of the U.S. could have their re-entry blocked because of allegations. Entry to the U.S. by non-citizens is a privilege granted at the pleasure of the U.S., not a right.
Having said that, I suspect that the chances of Tejada being barred from returning this year are pretty much zero. If this thing snowballs, however, and he's formally busted, then he's got a big problem.
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Either way, it's gone well beyond what the commissioner and Mitchell himself wanted out of the report. One of the reasons the Mitchell Report is sometimes criticized is that it names names.
It's amazing to me that they honestly believed the report wouldn't spark a witch hunt.
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Any player here would be subject to due process. Any player out of the U.S. could have their re-entry blocked because of allegations. Entry to the U.S. by non-citizens is a privilege granted at the pleasure of the U.S., not a right.
Having said that, I suspect that the chances of Tejada being barred from returning this year are pretty much zero. If this thing snowballs, however, and he's formally busted, then he's got a big problem.
the due process clause protects any "person," not just citizens. the privilege/right issue is whether he has been denied "property."
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It's amazing to me that they honestly believed the report wouldn't spark a witch hunt.
I wouldn't describe this as a "witch hunt". What happened is that MLB pointed out that a number of its employees had been engaging in illegal activity. The authorities moved on it because that's what they're supposed to do when illegal activity is pointed out to them (and, in the case of Congress, it's an election year).
The fact that those who run MLB thought that the Mitchell Report would be the end of it just goes to show how fucking stupid and/or detached from reality they are.
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Any player here would be subject to due process. Any player out of the U.S. could have their re-entry blocked because of allegations. Entry to the U.S. by non-citizens is a privilege granted at the pleasure of the U.S., not a right.
Having said that, I suspect that the chances of Tejada being barred from returning this year are pretty much zero. If this thing snowballs, however, and he's formally busted, then he's got a big problem.
What are the US laws for people (like ballplayers) who come in on work Visas and return back to their home country? Specifically say in the area of steroids. They are illegal to purchase and use here without a prescription, but if you buy and use them outside of the country, that shouldn't matter to the government, right?
It is not like their use outside of the US is a threat to the US when they come into the US, right? So while they can deny access to anyone they want, would this reasoning fly? "We denied his work Visa because we discovered he did something in his country that they don't consider illegal, but we do."
I am not talking something like murder or anything like that, but more along the Steroid use level.
I know it is outside of the scope, because supposedly Tejada bought and used them while in the US. Just wondering.
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the due process clause protects any "person," not just citizens. the privilege/right issue is whether he has been denied "property."
So, if he owns a house here, he has a right to come back? Just after a clarification.
Thanks
Limey
Non-Citizen / Homeowner
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What are the US laws for people (like ballplayers) who come in on work Visas and return back to their home country? Specifically say in the area of steroids.
See Sosa, Sammy.
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What are the US laws for people (like ballplayers) who come in on work Visas and return back to their home country? Specifically say in the area of steroids. They are illegal to purchase and use here without a prescription, but if you buy and use them outside of the country, that shouldn't matter to the government, right?
It is not like their use outside of the US is a threat to the US when they come into the US, right? So while they can deny access to anyone they want, would this reasoning fly? "We denied his work Visa because we discovered he did something in his country that they don't consider illegal, but we do."
I am not talking something like murder or anything like that, but more along the Steroid use level.
I know it is outside of the scope, because supposedly Tejada bought and used them while in the US. Just wondering.
Murray Chass from the NYT, wrote this back in November, http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/sports/baseball/25chass.html few answers, more questions.
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It is not like their use outside of the US is a threat to the US when they come into the US, right? So while they can deny access to anyone they want, would this reasoning fly? "We denied his work Visa because we discovered he did something in his country that they don't consider illegal, but we do."
The U.S. has the authority to regulate citizens' activities in foreign places. There are regulations that apply to citizens abroad - OFAC, for example - but I don't know whether things like the abuse of controlled substances is typically prosecuted or even regulated. If it was, no one would ever be allowed back from Tijuana. And when Rush Limpbaugh got busted coming back from vacation with underage hookers in the Dominican Republic (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0706062rush1.html), the authorities seemed to have little interest in pursuing any charges once the confusion about his prescription was cleared up.
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And when Rush Limpbaugh got busted coming back from vacation with underage hookers in the Dominican Republic (http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0706062rush1.html), the authorities seemed to have little interest in pursuing any charges once the confusion about his prescription was cleared up.
Did we ever learn whether the underage hookers that Limbaugh was consorting with were male or female?
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Did we ever learn whether the underage hookers that Limbaugh was consorting with were male or female?
Wow! Just when I thought the story couldn't be any seamier...
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I'm believe that re-entry to the country may be blocked, if the authorities so choose, because of allegations of felonious activity. It's the reason why I'm very careful to make sure that my activities never rise above the level of a misdemeanour.
Convicted of a crime that has a sentence of at least one year. Moral turpitude is how they say it. That's defined by the State Dept here (http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/75248.pdf) And not a layman's description of Limey's activities generally. If this thing gets to the point where Tejada is sentenced under a perjury conviction, he'll have more trouble than just playing short for the Astros. But, nothing will happen until he is convicted. I'm not sure as to how Donald Fehr and the MLBPA, but not surprised that they do, think they are exempt from the laws of the United States. They already seem to believe that possession and use of a prescription drug without a prescription is no big deal.
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They already seem to believe that possession and use of a prescription drug without a prescription is no big deal.
Niether do I.
Continious usage of illegal drugs to gain an illicit advantage in your chosen profession, however, is a bit more tawdry.
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Convicted of a crime that has a sentence of at least one year. Moral turpitude is how they say it. That's defined by the State Dept here (http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/75248.pdf) And not a layman's description of Limey's activities generally. If this thing gets to the point where Tejada is sentenced under a perjury conviction, he'll have more trouble than just playing short for the Astros. But, nothing will happen until he is convicted. I'm not sure as to how Donald Fehr and the MLBPA, but not surprised that they do, think they are exempt from the laws of the United States. They already seem to believe that possession and use of a prescription drug without a prescription is no big deal.
From the link:
In general, if a crime manifests an element of baseness or depravity under current mores — if it evidences an evil or predatory intent — it involves moral turpitude.
Not sure that PEDs are enough to trigger this "under current mores". I also don't think that Tejada has been "trafficking", that would get him into trouble in the aggravated felony category. The only thing I see here that might affect him is that his ability to become naturalized would be impaired because of questions about his "good moral character", as naturalization may be withheld from anyone who:
violates a federal, state, or foreign law or regulation relating to a controlled substance, other than a single offense of possessing 30 grams or less of marijuana;
So, as long as he doesn't lie to Congress, and he's not bringing Rajah a year's supply of "B12" back with him, I think he's not going to have trouble getting back here.
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Continious usage of illegal drugs to gain an illicit advantage in your chosen profession, however, is a bit more tawdry.
Business is business. You use a gun, I use a fountain pen. What's the difference? (http://www.thelin.net/laurent/cinema/films/tt0095016/106695.jpg)
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Limey, listen to me - shut up, just shut your mouth!
Feds, this guy may not know what kind of people you are, but I do!
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I wouldn't describe this as a "witch hunt". What happened is that MLB pointed out that a number of its employees had been engaging in illegal activity. The authorities moved on it because that's what they're supposed to do when illegal activity is pointed out to them (and, in the case of Congress, it's an election year).
The fact that those who run MLB thought that the Mitchell Report would be the end of it just goes to show how fucking stupid and/or detached from reality they are.
Well, for what it's worth, that was Mitchell who said that no one would be punished except in certain cases, not the MLB. The commisioner was wanting to punish some players to provide heads on a platter to the Congress when he faced them again (which was pretty soon after the Mitchell Report). See Senator Mitchell said that he had no fear in naming players because as a former federal prosecutor, he knew that not many Feds would be interested in prosecuting a user. Instead, they'd rather talk to users so they could get to the distributors and manufacturers. That is why Kirk Ramonski is a target moreso than Tejada in the eyes of Senator Mitchell.
Now it seems that this will not be true and the band plays on...
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So, if he owns a house here, he has a right to come back? Just after a clarification.
Thanks
Limey
Non-Citizen / Homeowner
POTWA.
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Back in the day, a big part of the case against John Lennon remaining in the country was because of a 1968 (1969?) conviction for possession of marijuana, but his lawyers were able to successfully overcome that, along with the Nixon witch hunt (obviously).
Of course, look how that turned out for him...
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And then the CIA hired Mark David Chapman to kill him.
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And then the CIA hired Mark David Chapman to kill him.
The trick is: avoid everyone identified by three names. Mark David Chapman, John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, Billy Ray Cyrus...
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The trick is: avoid everyone identified by three names. Mark David Chapman, John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, Billy Ray Cyrus...
You have not much future there. It will happen this way. You may be walking. Maybe the first sunny day of the spring. and a car will slow beside you, and a door will open, and someone you know, maybe even trust, will get out of the car. And he will smile, a becoming smile. But he will leave open the door of the car and offer to give you a lift.
John David Ashcroft
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The trick is: avoid everyone identified by three names. Mark David Chapman, John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, Billy Ray Cyrus...
Noé in Austin...
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Mary Kate Olsen
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Walt Fucking Weiss.
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Mary Kate Olsen
I think I've said this before, but I'm not joking when I say that I spent my first few years here being totally confused by the reference to Mary, Kate and Ashley Olsen being twins.
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I think I've said this before, but I'm not joking when I say that I spent my first few years here being totally confused.
FIFY
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Walt Fucking Weiss.
We have our winner.
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Hillary Rodham Clinton?
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Hillary Rodham Clinton?
George Walker Bush.
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George Dubya Bush.
FIFY
Jose Jesus Ortiz
Craig the Bastard
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FIFY
Jose Jesus Ortiz
Craig the Bastard
Eas Tex Astro
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Don't underestimate the Grocer's influence on the DOJ and immigration.
I'd bet Pappa Bush wants to see Miggy play next year, too.
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Charles Nelson Reilly
Jaye P. Morgan
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Jar Jar Binks
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James K. Polk
Chester A. Arthur
Martin Van Buren
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Billy Ray Valentine
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Ghandi.
No, wait... dammit!!
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Jon Bon Jovi
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Jon Bon Jovi
You clearly don't understand the game.
Either that, or you're going out in a blaze of glory.
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Howard in Memorial.
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Howard in Memorial.
Ding...
Ding...
Ding...
We have our winner, ladies and gentlemen.