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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: pravata on December 04, 2007, 10:36:03 am
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Denver, (from the local paper)
Armed with reams of statistics, color-coded scouting charts and gut instincts, general manager Dan O'Dowd is trying to figure out how to replace Kazuo Matsui,...
(Thus burdened with 2 sets of useless information, O'Dowd turns to his 2b options, Loretta is one. And his agent says,)
"Mark would take less money to play for the Rockies than what he would make in arbitration from the Astros," Garber said. "We would love to hear back from the Rockies."
(Burke is another, but,)
Burke has good speed, but not the type of speed that made Matsui so valuable during the Rockies' run to the World Series.
Link (http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_7627771)
Why didn't he get Castillo? Why isn't he going after Iguchi?
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Why didn't he get Castillo? Why isn't he going after Iguchi?
Someone fucked up the color-coding. Or indigestion was skewing his gut data. Possibly both.
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(Burke is another, but,)
Burke has good speed, but not the type of speed that made Matsui so valuable during the Rockies' run to the World Series.
Link (http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_7627771)
A blogger did a quick search on some information. Here is a quick snapshot comparison of what the Rockies would trade in Matsui if they got Burke: (http://houstonstros.blogspot.com/)
In 2007 Kaz hit 21% line drives vs Burke's 16.9%
Kaz's line drive % is higher then any Astro on the roster.
Kaz had a better BA/BIP (Batted Balls In Play) then any Astro except Pence
Kaz hit .295 w/ RISP , Burke .211
Bill James projects 08 stats as: Kaz .294 / .350 / .435 (coors enabled?) and Burke .258 / .327 / .398 (MMPUS enabled?)
Zips projects Burke less then that
Baseball Reference neutralized for ballpark 07 stats:
Kaz .272 / .323 / .387
Burke .229 / .304 / .351
This blogger has a graphic/chart showing Matsui's BA/BIP. I think O'Dowd should be a bit concerned if Burke is his answer because Burke has rarely shown his want to hit behind a runner and swing level for more line drives. He did it for a stretch in 2006, when he got his chance to play (Tavares got a seat on the bench), but overall he hasn't done this consistently to make anyone feel good about a #2 spot for Chris.
IMHO of course.
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A blogger did a quick search on some information. Here is a quick snapshot comparison of what the Rockies would trade in Matsui if they got Burke: (http://houstonstros.blogspot.com/)
In 2007 Kaz hit 21% line drives vs Burke's 16.9%
Kaz's line drive % is higher then any Astro on the roster.
Kaz had a better BA/BIP (Batted Balls In Play) then any Astro except Pence
Kaz hit .295 w/ RISP , Burke .211
Bill James projects 08 stats as: Kaz .294 / .350 / .435 (coors enabled?) and Burke .258 / .327 / .398 (MMPUS enabled?)
Zips projects Burke less then that
Baseball Reference neutralized for ballpark 07 stats:
Kaz .272 / .323 / .387
Burke .229 / .304 / .351
This blogger has a graphic/chart showing Matsui's BA/BIP. I think O'Dowd should be a bit concerned if Burke is his answer because Burke has rarely shown his want to hit behind a runner and swing level for more line drives. He did it for a stretch in 2006, when he got his chance to play (Tavares got a seat on the bench), but overall he hasn't done this consistently to make anyone feel good about a #2 spot for Chris.
IMHO of course.
Again, it would be hard for me to fall in love with just the numbers. Burke might excel in the thin air at coors. He had many warning track flies that just might get out of coors. Mat, may have a much larger drop off at MM. We will see.
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Again, it would be hard for me to fall in love with just the numbers. Burke might excel in the thin air at coors. He had many warning track flies that just might get out of coors. Mat, may have a much larger drop off at MM. We will see.
Excellent points, but it all depends how O'Dowd views his lineup construction as much as he does the field where they play. At some point, folks have to point to the actual lineup at Colorado and ask themselves if the team functioned well, regardless of the field. I listened to a radio interview of Clint Hurdle prior to the start of the World Series. He was asked when he knew he had a good *team*. "As soon as we broke spring training" was his answer, then he explained a little more "I knew because I saw how the team worked on defense and also how well our lineup worked. We had guys doing what they do best and that's when I knew we were going to be good this year".
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..."I knew because I saw how the team worked on defense and also how well our lineup worked. We had guys doing what they do best and that's when I knew we were going to be good this year".
Neither Burke or Loretta gives him the "perfect" replacement for what Matsui contributed to the Rockies team.
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Neither Burke or Loretta gives him the "perfect" replacement for what Matsui contributed to the Rockies team.
Not a one-to-one, no. But they may work in other ways. If they want slugging potential, go with Burke. If you want bat control, go with Loretta. If you want defense, go with someone else entirely.
Hey look, there is Clint Barmes right there in your own organization!
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Hey look, there is Clint Barmes right there in your own organization!
His ISSF+ (park-adjusted Iced Staircase Stability Factor) is way too low for what they're trying to do in Colorado right now. They need veteran middle infielders who have proven their ability to tote vension up apartment staircases with coefficients of friction well below 0.04. Barmes just hasn't shown it consistently at the major league level.
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His ISSF+ (park-adjusted Iced Staircase Stability Factor) is way too low for what they're trying to do in Colorado right now. They need veteran middle infielders who have proven their ability to tote vension up apartment staircases with coefficients of friction well below 0.04. Barmes just hasn't shown it consistently at the major league level.
Have you ever watched him run up some stairs? No? Put the stats away and watch a man run for once!
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His ISSF+ (park-adjusted Iced Staircase Stability Factor) is way too low for what they're trying to do in Colorado right now. They need veteran middle infielders who have proven their ability to tote vension up apartment staircases with coefficients of friction well below 0.04. Barmes just hasn't shown it consistently at the major league level.
Now that is a useful stat!
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Have you ever watched him run up some stairs? No? Put the stats away and watch a man run for once!
I don't have time to watch footage of every player in MLB who has navigated a staircase while carrying cured meats, so I can only rely on the numbers and this convincing reenactment (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2HtyeZc_Hhk). All I know is if you're looking to avoid DL stints and stairs are a factor, you don't build your team around guys like Barmes and Kaz Sazaki.
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I don't have time to watch footage of every player in MLB who has navigated a staircase while carrying cured meats, so I can only rely on the numbers and this convincing reenactment (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2HtyeZc_Hhk). All I know is if you're looking to avoid DL stints and stairs are a factor, you don't build your team around guys like Barmes and Kaz Sazaki.
Granted, Barmes has to do better with the inclines and the intricacies of steps. I would rather wait to see if he can do it than rely on stats that could mislead me to believe he's incapable of putting one foot in front of the other.
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I don't have time to watch footage of every player in MLB who has navigated a staircase while carrying cured meats, so I can only rely on the numbers and this convincing reenactment (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2HtyeZc_Hhk). All I know is if you're looking to avoid DL stints and stairs are a factor, you don't build your team around guys like Barmes and Kaz Sazaki.
I went off looking for some Wikiality with which to gather material for a clever retort here, but hell, I can't rememeber what witty reply I had in mind, now. Not since I found out the scientific types refer to deer as cunts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer).
My favorite line from the entry: "A group of cunt's is commonly called a herd."
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Or a sorority
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Or a sorority
BA-zing!
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I went off looking for some Wikiality with which to gather material for a clever retort here, but hell, I can't rememeber what witty reply I had in mind, now. Not since I found out the scientific types refer to deer as cunts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer).
My favorite line from the entry: "A group of cunt's is commonly called a herd."
That's a fantastic revelation. I believe it's time to edit Barmes' wikipedia page to change the words "large slab of meat" to something more scientifically accurate.
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That's a fantastic revelation. I believe it's time to edit Barmes' wikipedia page to change the words "large slab of meat" to something more scientifically accurate.
Modesty prohibits me from revealing the actual scientific term for "large slab of meat".
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I've wasted many hours of my life cunt hunting. Nothing quite like bagging that big piece of fur for the first time, however.
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Modesty prohibits me from revealing the actual scientific term for "large slab of meat".
There's no modesty in science. Blast away!
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I've wasted many hours of my life cunt hunting. Nothing quite like bagging that big piece of fur for the first time, however.
Me too, and on the outings where the quality cunt was too allusive, I've been known to settle on bagging a coyote.
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Me too, and on the outings where the quality cunt was too allusive, I've been known to settle on bagging a coyote.
Ever hunt a cougar?
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Me too, and on the outings where the quality cunt was too allusive, I've been known to settle on bagging a coyote.
Cougars are ellusive, but their pelts can be highly treasured.
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I've wasted many hours of my life cunt hunting. Nothing quite like bagging that big piece of fur for the first time, however.
See, you are waiting around to get a shot at the Golden Hind. I am beginning to think the whole thing is some kind of myth or something.
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Cougars are ellusive, but their pelts can be highly treasured.
In the 70s, some would hunt beaver.
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Ever hunt a cougar?
Yes. I still have claw marks from mis-firing while going for the kill.
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See, you are waiting around to get a shot at the Golden Hind. I am beginning to think the whole thing is some kind of myth or something.
Nope, I'm waiting around to get a shot at one of those beasts sporting a huge rack.
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My experience says that the cougar usually hunts you.
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Ever hunt a cougar?
Also, cougars are usually out looking for doe to devour.
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Nope, I'm waiting around to get a shot at one of those beasts sporting a huge rack.
I bagged one a couple of weeks ago that had a nice rack. Not humongous, but real symmetrical and nice to look at. Left a hell of a mess in the back of my pickup, though. Took all afternoon to scrub it out, because my wife wouldn't help.
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from rotoworld via denver post:
The Rockies have offered Clint Barmes to the Astros in exchange for Chris Burke, reports Troy E. Renck of the Denver Post.
In Barmes, the Astros would be getting a legitimate reserve shortstop, but they'd be leaving themselves with another light-hitting utilityman to go along with Geoff Blum. Considering that they won't be getting any power from their starting middle infielders, it'd be nice if they had one guy available on the bench occasionally capable of reaching the Crawford Boxes.
http://rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=MLB
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from rotoworld via denver post:
The Rockies have offered Clint Barmes to the Astros in exchange for Chris Burke, reports Troy E. Renck of the Denver Post.
In Barmes, the Astros would be getting a legitimate reserve shortstop, but they'd be leaving themselves with another light-hitting utilityman to go along with Geoff Blum. Considering that they won't be getting any power from their starting middle infielders, it'd be nice if they had one guy available on the bench occasionally capable of reaching the Crawford Boxes.
http://rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=MLB
Just say no, WadeSmith. Not only do I personally find it unexciting (which is the barometer for all trades), but I'm also fresh out of falling down stairs jokes.
Or am I?...
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from rotoworld via denver post:
The Rockies have offered Clint Barmes to the Astros in exchange for Chris Burke, reports Troy E. Renck of the Denver Post.
In Barmes, the Astros would be getting a legitimate reserve shortstop, but they'd be leaving themselves with another light-hitting utilityman to go along with Geoff Blum. Considering that they won't be getting any power from their starting middle infielders, it'd be nice if they had one guy available on the bench occasionally capable of reaching the Crawford Boxes.
http://rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=MLB
Actually, Clint Barmes would be the replacement for Eric Bruntlett that was supposed to be Chris Burke's job. Fantasy Baseball sites probably wouldn't understand the need for such a player on a 25 man roster.
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Actually, Clint Barmes would be the replacement for Eric Bruntlett that was supposed to be Chris Burke's job. Fantasy Baseball sites probably wouldn't understand the need for such a player on a 25 man roster.
Do you perceive Blum as having a role in replacing Bruntlett?
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Do you perceive Blum as having a role in replacing Bruntlett?
that's what i thought we signed him for. wouldnt we be trading chris burke for...chris burke?
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Do you perceive Blum as having a role in replacing Bruntlett?
Lamb, but admittedly there is a drop off in the productivity of Lamb versus the one Blum provides. But I also think that Lamb was more than a backup, he was closer to a platoon player for the last three years. I don't see Blum getting to that point. Blum will come off the bench how Cooper wants him to, but I seriously doubt he'll get the same type of Lamb PT. Wiggington will get just about all the lion share at third and Berkman at first.
Blum will be a left handed bat off the bench.
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Kaz had a better BA/BIP (Batted Balls In Play) then any Astro except Pence
Not sure that's a stat you want to use to pump up Matsui.
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Not sure that's a stat you want to use to pump up Matsui.
It's not being used to pump Matsui, it's being used to contrast him with Burke.
Context, you see, makes all the difference.
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Actually, Clint Barmes would be the replacement for Eric Bruntlett that was supposed to be Chris Burke's job. Fantasy Baseball sites probably wouldn't understand the need for such a player on a 25 man roster.
What's Hooper for then?
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What's Hooper for then?
Insurance.
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that's what i thought we signed him for. wouldnt we be trading chris burke for...chris burke?
I dont think Burke carries his own venison.
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Actually, Clint Barmes would be the replacement for Eric Bruntlett that was supposed to be Chris Burke's job. Fantasy Baseball sites probably wouldn't understand the need for such a player on a 25 man roster.
What's the dictionary collective for a group of Clints?
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What's the dictionary collective for a group of Clints?
Clunt.
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I dont think Burke carries his own venison.
Roy would become best friends with Barmes real fast.
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What's the dictionary collective for a group of Clints?
a Hurdle?
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at MLBTR:
So far four teams have contacted Burke's agent: the White Sox, Rockies, A's, and Angels.
The 2001 first rounder is almost certain to be traded by the Astros; he just wants an opportunity to start somewhere. The Angels' could have an opening if they trade Howie Kendrick.
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Burke would have to outplay a bazillion good middle infield prospects in Anaheim.
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I don't recall Barmes on defense. I know he started 2005 in the ROY discussion. Can anyone offer any feedback on how strong he is with the glove?
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I don't recall Barmes on defense. I know he started 2005 in the ROY discussion. Can anyone offer any feedback on how strong he is with the glove?
His 2005 ROY consideration was because of his bat, as he was putting up some gaudy numbers before his injury. I remember seeing him a little, and the general opinion (not just me) was of him being a very average fielder. I recall there was some discussion as to whether he was actually more of a 2B. Apparently, his defense has improved dramatically, because general opinion now seems to be that his glove at short is an asset.
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Even if Barmes is only average at SS, that would make him an upgrade over Burke and probably Loretta too. Not that that's a good enough reason to do the deal, I'm just saying.
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His 2005 ROY consideration was because of his bat, as he was putting up some gaudy numbers before his injury. I remember seeing him a little, and the general opinion (not just me) was of him being a very average fielder. I recall there was some discussion as to whether he was actually more of a 2B. Apparently, his defense has improved dramatically, because general opinion now seems to be that his glove at short is an asset.
Your post made me wonder just how many times an average second baseman improved his fielding enough to be a competent shortstop. I'm not discounting that this is indeed the case with Barmes, just that it would be exceptional.
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Your post made me wonder just how many times an average second baseman improved his fielding enough to be a competent shortstop. I'm not discounting that this is indeed the case with Barmes, just that it would be exceptional.
I certainly agree with that. I saw him play several times in 2005, and while he wasn't bad, I'm still skeptical that the guy that I saw could morph into an above-average shortstop in less than 2 seasons, if at all.
ETA:
I had to look around to see if I was crazy in remembering some sort of reported defensive improvement, and found this:
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060809&content_id=1602178&vkey=news_col&fext=.jsp&c_id=col
Beats the hell out of me.
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I don't recall Barmes on defense. I know he started 2005 in the ROY discussion. Can anyone offer any feedback on how strong he is with the glove?
I thought he was a bit of a "clank" with the glove. He does have a strong arm, but he is not the type of guy with soft hands to receive the ball.
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he is not the type of guy with soft hands to receive the ball.
DQ and DP just rejected him. NTTAWWT.
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FWIW, Barmes was 2nd to AE in 2006 at shortstop in the Fielding Bible numbers:
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/2006plus-minus.gif
Also, 3rd among shortstops (behind AE and Jason Bartlett) from 2005-07:
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/leaders1-0507.gif