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General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: Mr. Happy on September 10, 2007, 07:49:27 am
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Who'll be back? Who won't but should be? Who won't and shouldn't be? Acquisitions, anyone?
I see:
1B Berkman
2B Burke
SS Everett
3B Wigginton
LF Lee
CF Pence
RF Scott
C Towles/Munson
Starting Rotation: Ozwalt, Backe, Patton, Williams and Rodriguez
Middle guys: Albers, McLemore, Sampson, Gutierrez and Miller
Eighth: Qualls
Closer: Lidge
Bench: Bruntlett, Anderson, ?, ? (wishing and hoping that it is Lamb and Loretta)
What sayeth you?
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If that's the roster, the "Drayton is cheap" camp wins.
I'm still not ruling out the idea that they go after ARod.
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If that's the roster, the "Drayton is cheap" camp wins.
I'm still not ruling out the idea that they go after ARod.
I could be dead wrong, but I see the biggest upgrade needs at 2B, C (always build your club up the middle) and starting pitching. A-Rod strikes me as a luxury we really can't afford.
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If that's the roster, the "Drayton is cheap" camp wins.
I'm still not ruling out the idea that they go after ARod.
Doubt that being that the devil is his agent and Drayton don't deal with the devil.
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I could be dead wrong, but I see the biggest upgrade needs at 2B, C (always build your club up the middle) and starting pitching. A-Rod strikes me as a luxury we really can't afford.
(a) I think they'd move him back to SS.
(b) I don't think it would be a baseball decision.
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(a) I think they'd move him back to SS.
(b) I don't think it would be a baseball decision.
That's an interesting slant. I forget sometimes that the MBA's are running the show these days.
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Who'll be back? Who won't but should be? Who won't and shouldn't be? Acquisitions, anyone?
I see:
1B Berkman
2B Burke
SS Everett
3B Wigginton
LF Lee
CF Pence
RF Scott
C Towles/Munson
Starting Rotation: Ozwalt, Backe, Patton, Williams and Rodriguez
Middle guys: Albers, McLemore, Sampson, Gutierrez and Miller
Eighth: Qualls
Closer: Lidge
Bench: Bruntlett, Anderson, ?, ? (wishing and hoping that it is Lamb and Loretta)
What sayeth you?
I don't think we can even guess on this outside the obvious (no trade guys) until the new GM is hired. A new GM's philosophy might not include Wigginton at 3b, Scott in rf, and even Everett at ss.
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I don't think we can even guess on this outside the obvious (no trade guys) until the new GM is hired. A new GM's philosophy might not include Wigginton at 3b, Scott in rf, and even Everett at ss.
I see your point. However, I see them staying in-house with Ricky Bennett as GM, so I think that absent some blockbuster deal/FA signing, we've got most of what we're going to have for next year now.
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Doubt that being that the devil is his agent and Drayton don't deal with the devil.
Doesn't he want to be a Champion? Isn't one of the reasons Purpura was fired was because he didn't spend enough money? The way Mclane is talking he should go after every available free agent. It's what the fans would want. If nothing else, I'd like to see Mclane endure 3 months of negotiations with that snake.
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Doesn't he want to be a Champion? Isn't one of the reasons Purpura was fired was because he didn't spend enough money? The way Mclane is talking he should go after every available free agent. It's what the fans would want. If nothing else, I'd like to see Mclane endure 3 months of negotiations with that snake.
what happened to the winning spirit Coop brought in?
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I don't think we can even guess on this outside the obvious (no trade guys) until the new GM is hired. A new GM's philosophy might not include Wigginton at 3b, Scott in rf, and even Everett at ss.
i hope everette is kept at short. he was sorely missed this season
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what happened to the winning spirit Coop brought in?
I thought Garner took that with him when he left.
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I don't think we can even guess on this outside the obvious (no trade guys) until the new GM is hired. A new GM's philosophy might not include Wigginton at 3b, Scott in rf, and even Everett at ss.
This team, both in the field and offensively just didn't seem to mesh well. It might simply be my inability to see it, but I never got a glimpse of what was to be this lineup's strength. Just what did TP have in mind? Defense, offense, speed? We don't seem to have much or any of those, or any functional balance.
I will be real curious to know where the new GM goes from here, given the pieces already in place. I don't envy that job one bit.
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This team, both in the field and offensively just didn't seem to mesh well. It might simply be my inability to see it, but I never got a glimpse of what was to be this lineup's strength. Just what did TP have in mind? Defense, offense, speed? We don't seem to have much or any of those, or any functional balance.
I will be real curious to know where the new GM goes from here, given the pieces already in place. I don't envy that job one bit.
Pretty clear to me that Purpura was hoping for a lot of ground balls from Jennings and Sampson. Everett was supposed to field most of those ground balls. Burke was supposed to play centerfield as least as well as he did in 2006 and provide more offense than Taveras had. Ensberg was expected to approximate his production from the beginning of 2006, Scott come close to what he did in the end of 2006. Lee and Berkman were supposed to be steady run producers throughout the season. Lidge was supposed to return to form and Qualls and Wheeler hold down the 7th and 8th.
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Pretty clear to me that Purpura was hoping for a lot of ground balls from Jennings and Sampson. Everett was supposed to field most of those ground balls. Burke was supposed to play centerfield as least as well as he did in 2006 and provide more offense than Taveras had. Ensberg was expected to approximate his production from the beginning of 2006, Scott come close to what he did in the end of 2006. Lee and Berkman were supposed to be steady run producers throughout the season. Lidge was supposed to return to form and Qualls and Wheeler hold down the 7th and 8th.
Maybe it is as simple as a list of players not producing, and the underlying philosophy was sound. It appears to be fundamentally flawed to me at times, but it most likely is simply defects in the pieces.
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I don't think we can even guess on this outside the obvious (no trade guys) until the new GM is hired. A new GM's philosophy might not include Wigginton at 3b, Scott in rf, and even Everett at ss.
Don't forget: "or even Burke at 2nd"
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I'm hoping beyond hope that the statements Garner & Purpura made about Burke as the 2008 starter at 2B went out the door with them. I'd rather see Loretta starting for the next couple of years than Burke flailing around like he's trying to win an 18 inning game every at bat. Loretta brings a lot more to the table than just a superior OPS; he'd be one of the older guys on the team if we keep him around, and for such a young team in a leadership vacuum, he could be invaluable.
Sometimes I wish for the DeLorean to take me back to Timmy P's office last winter to whisper, "why not offer the Rockies Burke instead of Tavares?" It'd make this conversation a helluva lot more hopeful; but then again I'm just a caveman. Your world frightens and confuses me.
(also, hi.)
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Don't forget: "or even Burke at 2nd"
But it might include Ausmus at catcher, "Ausmus has had preliminary talks with president of baseball operations Tal Smith on a deal to return next season." Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/5121381.html)
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Don't forget: "or even Burke at 2nd"
IMO, his standing on the team is in serious question with the current braintrust much less the new GM's. Purps ouster could end Burke's tenure as an Astros.
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IMO, his standing on the team is in serious question with the current braintrust much less the new GM's. Purps ouster could end Burke's tenure as an Astros.
He also resisted trading Lidge.
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... I'd rather see Loretta starting for the next couple of years than Burke flailing around ...
Loretta was the only hitter Martinez was concerned about yesterday when there were runners on.
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He also resisted trading Lidge.
Very true. But, Lidge at least, has a much more successful mlb track record. I am very eagerly anticipating the new GM.
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i hope everette is kept at short. he was sorely missed this season
Good point. I remember all the honks declaring Everett's injury to be a good thing for the Astros win-loss record. Granted, it may not have made a difference, but I agree that he was missed this season.
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what happened to the winning spirit Coop brought in?
It got lost in by the airlines on the trip from Milwaukee to New York. Tal Smith is under orders to find it in the Lost and Found department of Continental Airlines if they don't have an adequate answer by noon today.
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But it might include Ausmus at catcher, "Ausmus has had preliminary talks with president of baseball operations Tal Smith on a deal to return next season." Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/5121381.html)
From listening to Jimmy D talk about this the other day, the Astros are toying with the idea of carrying three catchers, with one catcher actually playing more than one position (first base?). I think Munson and maybe Ausmus can fit that position of multiple roles if necessary, but Ausmus as a right handed pinch hitter late in the game? Not gonna happen. So they're still going to need one of those.
BTW - the way things are being said about next year's plans, seems to me that Cecil Cooper doesn't really have an interim job right now. He's got to be the next manager if all these evaluations and plans are being formulated.
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From listening to Jimmy D talk about this the other day, the Astros are toying with the idea of carrying three catchers, with one catcher actually playing more than one position (first base?). I think Munson and maybe Ausmus can fit that position of multiple roles if necessary, but Ausmus as a right handed pinch hitter late in the game? Not gonna happen. So they're still going to need one of those.
BTW - the way things are being said about next year's plans, seems to me that Cecil Cooper doesn't really have an interim job right now. He's got to be the next manager if all these evaluations and plans are being formulated.
Not if Tal Smith is actually the one doing the evaluating.
The GM will be a Friend of Tal.
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From listening to Jimmy D talk about this the other day, the Astros are toying with the idea of carrying three catchers, with one catcher actually playing more than one position (first base?). I think Munson and maybe Ausmus can fit that position of multiple roles if necessary, but Ausmus as a right handed pinch hitter late in the game? Not gonna happen. So they're still going to need one of those.
BTW - the way things are being said about next year's plans, seems to me that Cecil Cooper doesn't really have an interim job right now. He's got to be the next manager if all these evaluations and plans are being formulated.
Does any ML team carry three catchers before rosters expand?
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Does any ML team carry three catchers before rosters expand?
One catcher would have to be "more than a catcher". No, not three catchers, but three guys who can catch and one of them who can play another position.
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Not if Tal Smith is actually the one doing the evaluating.
The GM will be a Friend of Tal.
Would that rule out Bob Watson then? Actually there is only 1 guy on the list that we know to be a "friend" of Tal's, isn't there?
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Would that rule out Bob Watson then? Actually there is only 1 guy on the list that we know to be a "friend" of Tal's, isn't there?
Several on the list are from the lineage of Tal. And Tal has many, many friends.
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Who'll be back? Who won't but should be? Who won't and shouldn't be? Acquisitions, anyone?
I see:
1B Berkman
2B Burke
SS Everett
3B Wigginton
LF Lee
CF Pence
RF Scott
C Towles/Munson
Starting Rotation: Ozwalt, Backe, Patton, Williams and Rodriguez
Middle guys: Albers, McLemore, Sampson, Gutierrez and Miller
Eighth: Qualls
Closer: Lidge
Bench: Bruntlett, Anderson, ?, ? (wishing and hoping that it is Lamb and Loretta)
What sayeth you?
We have the same problem as last off season, no #2 or #3 starters. Couple that with a weak FA market (Jake Westbrook anyone?) and not much ammo for trading, we appear to be up proverbial creek without a paddle. I think the offense should be the least of our concerns as a lineup that includes Pence, Berkman, Lee, and Wiggy (and hopefully Loretta) should be plenty to win in the NL Central. Defensively it would nice to have a real CFer and replacement for Brad.
This thing ain't getting fixed in one off season, imho. The GM hire is the real key (no shit, I know)...
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Very true. But, Lidge at least, has a much more successful mlb track record. I am very eagerly anticipating the new GM.
Is there any precendent for "stealing" another team's GM? I know its happened with coaches in the NFL and NBA (ie compensation such as draft picks or just plain ole money). If the Grocer wants to throw around money, what about throwing a pile of it towards Ryan of the Twins? Imagine what that guy could do with a 100 million dollar payroll.
I will quit thinking out loud now.
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Would that rule out Bob Watson then? Actually there is only 1 guy on the list that we know to be a "friend" of Tal's, isn't there?
Lubratich, Wade, and Amaro Jr that I know of.
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One catcher would have to be "more than a catcher". No, not three catchers, but three guys who can catch and one of them who can play another position.
Munson is that guy.
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I think the offense should be the least of our concerns as a lineup that includes Pence, Berkman, Lee, and Wiggy (and hopefully Loretta) should be plenty to win in the NL Central.
You'd like to think so, but that's the same lineup that isn't scoring diddly now, and it's been a problem all season. One of the problems is that the pieces don't fit together very well: with the exception of Pence, they're slow and play station-to-station all the time. If they're not getting extra-base hits, they're not scoring. (A lot of the time they don't even score from first on a double.) The lineup desperately needs an infusion of speed, particularly at #1 or #2 (whichever spot isn't occupied by Pence). Berkman and Lee aren't going to move, and they're not going to get faster either, so it would also be nice to get some speed at the #5 spot and move Wigginton to #6, but I don't know what position that mythical person would play. He's not an outfielder (those are Lee, Pence, and probably the new #1/#2 guy), he's not a 1B (Berkman), and he's not a 3B (Wigginton). That leaves 2B, SS, and C.
In a world of unlimited funds, A-Rod would actually solve that problem (he wouldn't bring the speed, but the power tradeoff is worth it). You could leave Everett at SS for the defense, put A-Rod at 3B, and trade Wigginton (plus Burke, please) to somebody for a 2B (or see if Wigginton himself can play 2B). But your C or 2B has to be able to hit at #6 in that case.
Or maybe the new 2B is the top-of-the-order guy, meaning that your third OF is the #6 hitter. Like Luke Scott?
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One catcher would have to be "more than a catcher". No, not three catchers, but three guys who can catch and one of them who can play another position.
the only way I see that making sense would be for an AL team with Mike Piazza or some other similar bat. Seeing Munson at 1b doesn't inspire confidence in the offense
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Seeing Munson at 1b doesn't inspire confidence in the offense
this makes no sense.
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this makes no sense.
Speaking of making no sense...I'd seriously consider moving Berkman or Lee this off-season.
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Speaking of making no sense...I'd seriously consider moving Berkman or Lee this off-season.
Aren't they the living embodiments of the immovable object?
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Munson is that guy.
'Tis what I thought when they mentioned a three catcher rotation. Not really much of a rotation mind you:
1. Full time catcher
2. One back up catcher
3. One emergency catcher/pinch hitter/other than a catcher catcher, maybe a first baseman guy.
Ausmus as the backup catcher means he will probably not get to play as much as he's used to, but that's probably alright by him. Full time catcher is the key... who is that guy? Munson? I don't think so, but he'll stick on the team as that #3 that does more than just catch.
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this makes no sense.
Made me scratch my head. Or maybe I just had an itch.
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'Tis what I thought when they mentioned a three catcher rotation. Not really much of a rotation mind you:
1. Full time catcher
2. One back up catcher
3. One emergency catcher/pinch hitter/other than a catcher catcher, maybe a first baseman guy.
Ausmus as the backup catcher means he will probably not get to play as much as he's used to, but that's probably alright by him. Full time catcher is the key... who is that guy? Munson? I don't think so, but he'll stick on the team as that #3 that does more than just catch.
Munson is not a good pinch hitter. Seems like another trait this #3 guy would need to have.
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Munson is not a good pinch hitter. Seems like another trait this #3 guy would need to have.
how did you decide this? who out there who catches is?
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this makes no sense.
let me put it this way:
A good team doesn't play a 1b whose OBP/SLG is .301 .359
Munson has done a good job as a backup catcher. Any team that plays him at first base (unless we're in the 18th inning a la Chavez) will stink.
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Aren't they the living embodiments of the immovable object?
From the Pam Gardner side, yes. From the baseball side, I'm not so sure.
And in a vacuum, I'd move Berkman before I'd move Lee. But none of that will ever happen. Lee gives the Astros a very marketable Hispanic star, and Berkman is (more or less) a native and an All-Star.
Of course, no one employed by the Astros has ever asked me for my opinion. I just think that Lee isn't an outfielder and Berkman isn't so extraordinary that he couldn't be more valuable traded for 2 or 3 players that could help in need positions.
Doesn't mean I want to trade Berkman (or Lee), but it would make plenty of sense if they did.
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how did you decide this? who out there who catches is?
Which part? Maybe I should be more clear and say that Munson is not even an adequate pinch hitter.
As far as who this person is, I don't know.
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Which part? Maybe I should be more clear and say that Munson is not even an adequate pinch hitter.
and you decided this how?
well, you have to come up with a name if you're going to make roster decisions.
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From the Pam Gardner side, yes. From the baseball side, I'm not so sure.
And in a vacuum, I'd move Berkman before I'd move Lee. But none of that will ever happen. Lee gives the Astros a very marketable Hispanic star, and Berkman is (more or less) a native and an All-Star.
Of course, no one employed by the Astros has ever asked me for my opinion. I just think that Lee isn't an outfielder and Berkman is so extraordinary that he couldn't be more valuable for players that could be received in return.
Doesn't mean I want to trade Berkman (or Lee), but it would make plenty of sense if they did.
I tend to agree with some of this, not the marketable stuff, but having both of them sure makes fielding a team with good defense and speed more difficult, assuming the Astros want to go in that direction. I always see Lee as that impediment, although I guess he could be moved to first if Lance was gone. At any rate, like you say, it's not going to happen
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and you decided this how?
well, you have to come up with a name if you're going to make roster decisions.
I watch the games. I see the results. Do you think he could be an adequate pinch hitter?
My roster decision is not to use a spot on a third catcher.
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I watch the games. I see the results. Do you think he could be an adequate pinch hitter?
My roster decision is not to use a spot on a third catcher.
All that was my own speculation and nothing I am getting from anybody. The idea is how to carry three guys who can catch, not much more than that. That gives you the Ausmus/Munson tandem plus *one*. How they figure the logistics about that based on their own evaluations is anyone's guess at this point of flux. Heck, it may not even happen since there isn't a real GM on this team and the manager has the tag "interim" on his office door.
For all we know, Jimmy D was smoking crack that day he reported the Astros were considering it. And they seem to following through with it if Ausmus is being approached about coming back as a backup.
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I'd like to see the team try to sign Rowand this offseason. He seems solid in CF and could be a huge addition to the top of the lineup.
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I'd like to see the team try to sign Rowand this offseason. He seems solid in CF and could be a huge addition to the top of the lineup.
He's looking for Gary Mathews Jr. money... or more. 11 million a year for five years? And he's not a top of the lineup hitter either... but then again, they've got Pence hitting leadoff right now, so... juneberno.
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let me put it this way:
A good team doesn't play a 1b whose OBP/SLG is .301 .359
Munson has done a good job as a backup catcher. Any team that plays him at first base (unless we're in the 18th inning a la Chavez) will stink.
Were you thinking Munson was a starter at first base? I don't think I said that.
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My advice to Drayton: sign A-Rod and Aaron Rowand to long-term deals. I would offer Hunter Pence, Troy Patton and Juan Gutierrez to the Twins for Santana and Joe Nathan. I'd sign Santana to a bigger deal than Zito/Zambrano and extend Nathan's contract with a nice raise, installing him as the closer with Lidge as his set-up man. The salaries of Ausmus, Biggio, Jennings, Lane and Palmeiro come off the books. I would offer one year deals to Ausmus and Jennings at greatly reduced salaries with some incentives. I would re-sign Mike Lamb and Mark Loretta as bench players. If my figures are correct the team would have a payroll of about $135M next season and World Series potential for the next four or five years with sellout crowds as far as the eye could see...
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My advice to Drayton: sign A-Rod and Aaron Rowand to long-term deals. I would offer Hunter Pence, Troy Patton and Juan Gutierrez to the Twins for Santana and Joe Nathan. I'd sign Santana to a bigger deal than Zito/Villanueva and extend Nathan's contract with a nice raise, installing him as the closer with Lidge as his set-up man. The salaries of Ausmus, Biggio, Jennings, Lane and Palmeiro come off the books. I would offer one year deals to Ausmus and Jennings at greatly reduced salaries with some incentives. I would re-sign Mike Lamb and Mark Loretta as bench players. If my figures are correct the team would have a payroll of about $135M next season and World Series potential for the next four or five years with sellout crowds as far as the eye could see...
Who plays right field?
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Who'll be back? Who won't but should be? Who won't and shouldn't be? Acquisitions, anyone?
I see:
1B Berkman
2B Burke
SS Everett
3B Wigginton
LF Lee
CF Pence
RF Scott
C Towles/Munson
From Footer's mailbag:
How does the following lineup look for next year: LF -- Lee; CF -- Pence; RF -- Luke Scott; 1st -- Lance Berkman; 2nd -- Chris Burke/Mark Loretta; SS -- Adam Everett; 3rd -- Ty Wigginton and C -- Ausmus/Munson?
-- Dave M., Austin
Looks a lot like this year's lineup, which, quite frankly, makes me very uncomfortable.
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070910&content_id=2199878&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou
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Luke Scott plays RF. The lineup:
2B Burke
CF Rowand
SS A-Rod
1B Berkman
LF Lee
RF Scott
3B Wigginton
C Munson
Off the bench: Loretta, Lamb, Ausmus, Everett, Bruntlett, Josh Anderson
Starting Rotation: Oswalt, Santana, Backe, Wandy, Woody
Long/Spot Starts: Albers, Sampson
Relievers: Miller, Qualls, Lidge, Nathan
Jennings would obviously be in the starter mix pending his complete recovery.
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Luke Scott
Who is Villanueva?
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My mistake, Homer; I meant Carlos Zambrano.
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He's looking for Gary Mathews Jr. money... or more. 11 million a year for five years? And he's not a top of the lineup hitter either... but then again, they've got Pence hitting leadoff right now, so... juneberno.
He seems to be the best CF option out there this offseason, and as ridiculous as this sounds, 11 millin a year over five years doesn't sound that bad compared to some contracts in recent years. Of course, this could just be Rowand overachieving in a contract year, but it may be worth the risk considering there isn't much to do to improve the pitching.
I think this team is probably two years away from being a serious contender, although, it doesn't take much to contend in the NL Central.
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From the Pam Gardner side, yes. From the baseball side, I'm not so sure.
And in a vacuum, I'd move Berkman before I'd move Lee. But none of that will ever happen. Lee gives the Astros a very marketable Hispanic star, and Berkman is (more or less) a native and an All-Star.
Of course, no one employed by the Astros has ever asked me for my opinion. I just think that Lee isn't an outfielder and Berkman isn't so extraordinary that he couldn't be more valuable traded for 2 or 3 players that could help in need positions.
Doesn't mean I want to trade Berkman (or Lee), but it would make plenty of sense if they did.
No trade clauses are a bitch.
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Luke Scott plays RF. The lineup:
2B Burke
CF Rowand
SS A-Rod
1B Berkman
LF Lee
RF Scott
3B Wigginton
C Munson
Off the bench: Loretta, Lamb, Ausmus, Everett, Bruntlett, Josh Anderson
Starting Rotation: Oswalt, Santana, Backe, Wandy, Woody
Long/Spot Starts: Albers, Sampson
Relievers: Miller, Qualls, Lidge, Nathan
Jennings would obviously be in the starter mix pending his complete recovery.
The probability that Mclane pays Rodriguez, Rowland, and Santana and Pence doesn't start in 08 is exactly the same.
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My advice to Drayton: sign A-Rod and Aaron Rowand to long-term deals. I would offer Hunter Pence, Troy Patton and Juan Gutierrez to the Twins for Santana and Joe Nathan. I'd sign Santana to a bigger deal than Zito/Zambrano and extend Nathan's contract with a nice raise, installing him as the closer with Lidge as his set-up man. The salaries of Ausmus, Biggio, Jennings, Lane and Palmeiro come off the books. I would offer one year deals to Ausmus and Jennings at greatly reduced salaries with some incentives. I would re-sign Mike Lamb and Mark Loretta as bench players. If my figures are correct the team would have a payroll of about $135M next season and World Series potential for the next four or five years with sellout crowds as far as the eye could see...
Would Angelina Jolie also offer you free "services" in this hypothetical?
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let me put it this way:
A good team doesn't play a 1b whose OBP/SLG is .301 .359
Munson has done a good job as a backup catcher. Any team that plays him at first base (unless we're in the 18th inning a la Chavez) will stink.
you just do not ever pay attention.
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My advice to Drayton: sign A-Rod and Aaron Rowand to long-term deals. I would offer Hunter Pence, Troy Patton and Juan Gutierrez to the Twins for Santana and Joe Nathan. I'd sign Santana to a bigger deal than Zito/Zambrano and extend Nathan's contract with a nice raise, installing him as the closer with Lidge as his set-up man. The salaries of Ausmus, Biggio, Jennings, Lane and Palmeiro come off the books. I would offer one year deals to Ausmus and Jennings at greatly reduced salaries with some incentives. I would re-sign Mike Lamb and Mark Loretta as bench players. If my figures are correct the team would have a payroll of about $135M next season and World Series potential for the next four or five years with sellout crowds as far as the eye could see...
why waste the time it took to type this?
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let me put it this way:
A good team doesn't play a 1b whose OBP/SLG is .301 .359
What would you say of a team whose combined 1b were putting up .276/.336/.394?
Not that is proves anything, but if you're going to look at OBP and SLG, then 3 of the botom 4 in the majors at 1b are currently competing for the AL wild card.
You need offense, defense, and pitching. The combinations of players from which you can get that is almost endless.
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why waste the time it took to type this?
Probably for the same reason as whoever wrote this:
My team since 1962, which is pretty close to love of my life status, has been hijacked by a grocery store magnate and MBA types like Pam Gardner. Baseball people are ignored. Decisions are made by listening to sportstalk radio and by talking to fans in the stands and by the meddling owner’s perception of public opinion about baseball issues. The “I want to be a CHAMPION” mantra is supposed to keep injuries from happening, to turn rookies into veterans and to make mediocre players great. Management gets blamed and fired for draft/signing decisions made by business-driven ownership. MY baseball team has been turned into a corporate, marketing entity in which good people are not given a fair chance to fail or succeed based on decisions they are allowed to make. I hate it.
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Probably for the same reason as whoever wrote this:
My team since 1962, which is pretty close to love of my life status, has been hijacked by a grocery store magnate and MBA types like Pam Gardner. Baseball people are ignored. Decisions are made by listening to sportstalk radio and by talking to fans in the stands and by the meddling owner’s perception of public opinion about baseball issues. The “I want to be a CHAMPION” mantra is supposed to keep injuries from happening, to turn rookies into veterans and to make mediocre players great. Management gets blamed and fired for draft/signing decisions made by business-driven ownership. MY baseball team has been turned into a corporate, marketing entity in which good people are not given a fair chance to fail or succeed based on decisions they are allowed to make. I hate it.
There's a huge difference between what you wrote and what "the author" of the above wrote. The author was expressing an opinion based upon his perception (accurate in my view) of the facts. Your take was fanciful and sounds like it came from someone who is overly involved in fantacrap. The author is more than capable of defending himself (having kicked my ass around a few times), but I'm usually inclined to throw in my two cents.
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Probably for the same reason as whoever wrote this:
My team since 1962, which is pretty close to love of my life status, has been hijacked by a grocery store magnate and MBA types like Pam Gardner. Baseball people are ignored. Decisions are made by listening to sportstalk radio and by talking to fans in the stands and by the meddling owner’s perception of public opinion about baseball issues. The “I want to be a CHAMPION” mantra is supposed to keep injuries from happening, to turn rookies into veterans and to make mediocre players great. Management gets blamed and fired for draft/signing decisions made by business-driven ownership. MY baseball team has been turned into a corporate, marketing entity in which good people are not given a fair chance to fail or succeed based on decisions they are allowed to make. I hate it.
one huge difference: i was expressing my distaste about real events. yours was nothing more than fantasy world, rotogeek "team" building that has no basis in reality. you wasted your time and ours, and if you say you were serious about those "suggestions," that is incredible.
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one huge difference: i was expressing my distaste about real events. yours was nothing more than fantasy world, rotogeek "team" building that has no basis in reality. you wasted your time and ours, and if you say you were serious about those "suggestions," that is incredible.
Jim, A-Rod and Rowand will both be free agents this offseason and some team is going to sign them; why should I let the Yankees, Red Sox or Mets sign them if I want to win the World Series? The farm system is bare and the best player in baseball is there for the taking. The Twins are ready to listen to offers for Santana and Nathan this winter and will probably be losing Torii Hunter as well. To acquire Santana and Nathan would absolutely require a package of Pence, Patton, Gutierrez and maybe even another promising young pitcher of Minnesota's choosing. If the payroll increases to $140M, it would be the third highest in baseball. Call me a "rotogeek" for signing two excellent free agents and acquiring one of the best starting pitchers in the game via trade, that's your right; I just don't see it being unrealistic.
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Jim, A-Rod and Rowand will both be free agents this offseason and some team is going to sign them; why should I let the Yankees, Red Sox or Mets sign them if I want to win the World Series?
I? Aye ai ai!
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There's a huge difference between what you wrote and what "the author" of the above wrote. The author was expressing an opinion based upon his perception (accurate in my view) of the facts. Your take was fanciful and sounds like it came from someone who is overly involved in fantacrap. The author is more than capable of defending himself (having kicked my ass around a few times), but I'm usually inclined to throw in my two cents.
Well I don't play any roto/fantasy baseball, but since I don't in reality own the Astros, this is all fantasy anyway. Mr. Happy, he's kicked my ass, too! FWIW, I agree with his (and your) perception of the facts, I was just using his previous heartfelt email to illustrate why I feel frustrated and throwing in my two cents...
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Jim, A-Rod and Rowand will both be free agents this offseason and some team is going to sign them; why should I let the Yankees, Red Sox or Mets sign them if I want to win the World Series? The farm system is bare and the best player in baseball is there for the taking. The Twins are ready to listen to offers for Santana and Nathan this winter and will probably be losing Torii Hunter as well. To acquire Santana and Nathan would absolutely require a package of Pence, Patton, Gutierrez and maybe even another promising young pitcher of Minnesota's choosing. If the payroll increases to $140M, it would be the third highest in baseball. Call me a "rotogeek" for signing two excellent free agents and acquiring one of the best starting pitchers in the game via trade, that's your right; I just don't see it being unrealistic.
You don't see a $140 mil payroll as unrealistic?
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Jim, A-Rod and Rowand will both be free agents this offseason and some team is going to sign them; why should I let the Yankees, Red Sox or Mets sign them if I want to win the World Series? The farm system is bare and the best player in baseball is there for the taking. The Twins are ready to listen to offers for Santana and Nathan this winter and will probably be losing Torii Hunter as well. To acquire Santana and Nathan would absolutely require a package of Pence, Patton, Gutierrez and maybe even another promising young pitcher of Minnesota's choosing. If the payroll increases to $140M, it would be the third highest in baseball. Call me a "rotogeek" for signing two excellent free agents and acquiring one of the best starting pitchers in the game via trade, that's your right; I just don't see it being unrealistic.
"I?" boy, this is exciting. let us know when you've got this all wrapped up.
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You don't see a $140 mil payroll as unrealistic?
Obviously, it would be better if it could be lower, but the reality is that's what it would take.
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Well I don't play any roto/fantasy baseball, but since I don't in reality own the Astros, this is all fantasy anyway. Mr. Happy, he's kicked my ass, too! FWIW, I agree with his (and your) perception of the facts, I was just using his previous heartfelt email to illustrate why I feel frustrated and throwing in my two cents...
Dude, as our former president says, I feel your pain. I'd love to spend the Grocer's money and get everyone available. Our cupboard is pretty bare in the short term. And keep throwing in your two cents.
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Obviously, it would be better if it could be lower, but the reality is that's what it would take.
why do you think:
1. you can get the other side to deal for what you want to offer?
2. that all the free agents you want will want to sign with Houston?
3. that the owner will agree to a payroll that large?
it is fantasy baseball whether you have a team or not.
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Why would ARod or Santana or even Rowand want to play for the Astros?
A bit of research into the unsettled front office and manager positions and the meddling ownership would be all it takes for potential FA's to say, "no thanks."
I NEVER thought I would write that. Never.
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why do you think:
1. you can get the other side to deal for what you want to offer?
2. that all the free agents you want will want to sign with Houston?
3. that the owner will agree to a payroll that large?
it is fantasy baseball whether you have a team or not.
1. who knows in any deal going in? they're supposedly available; that would be my offer
2. I don't; once again, at least make the effort--money would not be the reason (see Beltran, Carlos)
3. once again, I don't. that's why they were suggestions
It's his team. Like I said before, this is all fantasy. The thread is about acquisitions, this is what I'd do.
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Santana for Pence?
Lol... come on man.
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Why would ARod or Santana or even Rowand want to play for the Astros?
A bit of research into the unsettled front office and manager positions and the meddling ownership would be all it takes for potential FA's to say, "no thanks."
I NEVER thought I would write that. Never.
Agreed. I might be cynical, but it seems most of these players will go for the biggest financial reward. ARod once signed with the Rangers and is currently having another MVP season with the team that is the crown jewel of baseball, the New York Yankees; why would he want to leave?
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Even if all these free agents wanted to play for the Astros, and even if Drayton was prepared to greatly expand the payroll, you have to ask yourself: is this the best strategy to build a successful team for the long-term? Personally, I think it is at best an expensive gamble unlikely to result in any championships and at worst, a good way to doom the franchise to perpetual mediocrity.
I hope Drayton and new GM go back to the strategy of building from within and only adding good free agents as final pieces, or average free agents as role players, but avoiding the idea of signing big-time free agents as pieces to build upon or around.
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ARod once signed with the Rangers and is currently having another MVP season with the team that is the crown jewel of baseball, the New York Yankees; why would he want to leave?
Unsettled front office and manager positions and the meddling ownership...wait a minute.
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Obviously, it would be better if it could be lower, but the reality is that's what it would take.
Then the reality is that everything you wrote is unrealistic because McLane has never indicated, ever, that he'd have a payroll that high, ever. Which is exactly contrary to: "Call me a "rotogeek" for signing two excellent free agents and acquiring one of the best starting pitchers in the game via trade, that's your right; I just don't see it being unrealistic."
This is a quality example of read more, post less.
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Even if all these free agents wanted to play for the Astros, and even if Drayton was prepared to greatly expand the payroll, you have to ask yourself: is this the best strategy to build a successful team for the long-term?
One thing about playing "spend the big bucks" with the big boys in the MLB is that you have to be prepared to spend above and beyond the initial spend. Meaning, you don't just spend on the A-Rods (or Carlos Lee), you spend on having quality backups and so forth. Basically, you also spend on depth, because if you don't and A-Rod (or Lee) go down, your season is crap. So a Steinbrenner can hedge his spending bet by spending more if he has to.
A Drayton McLane probably would not spend above what he has already done in his initial spend, so any injury to his prize commodity means very bad news. McLane's team will have to use rookies or minor league callups or career utility guys to supplant the superstar gone to the DL. And then the manager will get blamed when they don't produce.
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Attendance was up again this year again, right?
Uncle Drayton is raking it in, and he absolutely loved the excitement generated by the successes in '04 and '05. I might go so far to say as it made him a little more impatient/impulsive for results. I wouldn't be surprised if he bumps up payroll significantly on free agent acquisitions this off-season.
One thing about playing "spend the big bucks" with the big boys in the MLB is that you have to be prepared to spend above and beyond the initial spend. Meaning, you don't just spend on the A-Rods (or Carlos Lee), you spend on having quality backups and so forth. Basically, you also spend on depth, because if you don't and A-Rod (or Lee) go down, your season is crap. So a Steinbrenner can hedge his spending bet by spending more if he has to.
A Drayton McLane probably would not spend above what he has already done in his initial spend, so any injury to his prize commodity means very bad news. McLane's team will have to use rookies or minor league callups or career utility guys to supplant the superstar gone to the DL. And then the manager will get blamed when they don't produce.
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Attendance was up again this year again, right?
Uncle Drayton is raking it in, and he absolutely loved the excitement generated by the successes in '04 and '05. I might go so far to say as it made him a little more impatient/impulsive for results. I wouldn't be surprised if he bumps up payroll significantly on free agent acquisitions this off-season.
what is "significantly" and how much would you like to bet on that?
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One thing about playing "spend the big bucks" with the big boys in the MLB is that you have to be prepared to spend above and beyond the initial spend. Meaning, you don't just spend on the A-Rods (or Carlos Lee), you spend on having quality backups and so forth. Basically, you also spend on depth, because if you don't and A-Rod (or Lee) go down, your season is crap. So a Steinbrenner can hedge his spending bet by spending more if he has to.
A Drayton McLane probably would not spend above what he has already done in his initial spend, so any injury to his prize commodity means very bad news. McLane's team will have to use rookies or minor league callups or career utility guys to supplant the superstar gone to the DL. And then the manager will get blamed when they don't produce.
Then he needs to restrict his comments to cheerleading. He got into a bad area when he criticized Purpura for not signing FAs to wildy inflated contracts. And he's boxed himself in a corner, at least in this fans opinion. Either he spends more money or he's a hypocrite. Fair enough, it's his bat and his ball, my only option is watch or not watch. But he's also painting whatever FOT he can con into becoming his GM into a corner. MLB has already put the Astros in a bind with the comments regarding Cooper, now the interim GM is negotiating with a free agent, Ausmus, for next season. Catcher is one of the few spots on this team that has any kind of movement possibilities. Tal Smith is putting into place elements of a scheme that will further reduce the options for the new GM.
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Attendance was up again this year again, right?
Uncle Drayton is raking it in, and he absolutely loved the excitement generated by the successes in '04 and '05. I might go so far to say as it made him a little more impatient/impulsive for results. I wouldn't be surprised if he bumps up payroll significantly on free agent acquisitions this off-season.
A very real problem with the free-agent scheme is the cost in draft choices. That's not insignificant for a farm system that's already thin. I agree with some of the other people here: this team has problems that aren't likely to allow a quick fix, and it's going to take several years with a good plan and a steady hand to get back to where we all want them to be.
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A very real problem with the free-agent scheme is the cost in draft choices. That's not insignificant for a farm system that's already thin. I agree with some of the other people here: this team has problems that aren't likely to allow a quick fix, and it's going to take several years with a good plan and a steady hand to get back to where we all want them to be.
But does Drayton have that steady hand? I'm not so sure that the "fans" that he polls in the stands will approve of 2 or 3 years of mediocrity. If the Astros aren't winning, attendance will plummet and then what will the grocer do?
On the other hand, he insisted that the Astros were NOT rebuilding, so maybe he will open the wallet a bit wider for some FA acquisitions. As this tread has shown, the 2008 version of the Astros, if it resembles the 2007 Astros, is a scary thought.
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But does Drayton have that steady hand? I'm not so sure that the "fans" that he polls in the stands will approve of 2 or 3 years of mediocrity. If the Astros aren't winning, attendance will plummet and then what will the grocer do?
I don't know. I used to think that he had that temperament, but I'm no longer so sure.
And whether he admits it or not, the Astros ARE rebuilding. The only question is whether it's a fast rebuild, which will require taking on more salary (and cooperation from other parties who aren't under his control), or a slower rebuild based on re-stocking the farm system.
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One thing about playing "spend the big bucks" with the big boys in the MLB is that you have to be prepared to spend above and beyond the initial spend. Meaning, you don't just spend on the A-Rods (or Carlos Lee), you spend on having quality backups and so forth. Basically, you also spend on depth, because if you don't and A-Rod (or Lee) go down, your season is crap. So a Steinbrenner can hedge his spending bet by spending more if he has to.
A Drayton McLane probably would not spend above what he has already done in his initial spend, so any injury to his prize commodity means very bad news. McLane's team will have to use rookies or minor league callups or career utility guys to supplant the superstar gone to the DL. And then the manager will get blamed when they don't produce.
Noe, the way I see it the initial spend was last year on Carlos. Whatever he buys this year (ARod, Rowand/Torii Hunter/Andruw, trade for a starter) would be above and beyond the initial and would give the team the depth it cannot get from its' farm system. Would you agree with me that it will take years to rebuild the farm? That is why I believe a significant increase in payroll is not only called for this offseason but almost mandatory.
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Then the reality is that everything you wrote is unrealistic because McLane has never indicated, ever, that he'd have a payroll that high, ever. Which is exactly contrary to: "Call me a "rotogeek" for signing two excellent free agents and acquiring one of the best starting pitchers in the game via trade, that's your right; I just don't see it being unrealistic."
This is a quality example of read more, post less.
Thank you for your keen insight, Jacksonian. The following is from astros.com: "Drayton’s commitment to winning was never more evident than during the 2006 season, when the Astros had the fourth-highest payroll in the Majors and the highest in National League, in addition to the highest payroll in franchise history."
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Thank you for your keen insight, Jacksonian. The following is from astros.com: "Drayton’s commitment to winning was never more evident than during the 2006 season, when the Astros had the fourth-highest payroll in the Majors and the highest in National League, in addition to the highest payroll in franchise history."
Give us a link.
According to USA TODAY (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2006): Astros had the 8th highest in 06 and 4th highest in NL in 06.
Did that commitment to winning go away for 07 (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2007) when the payroll dropped 5 million and our ranking of $$$ dropped from 8th to 14th in MLB and from 4th to 7th in the NL and from 1st to 3rd in the NLC?
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Thank you for your keen insight, Jacksonian. The following is from astros.com: "Drayton’s commitment to winning was never more evident than during the 2006 season, when the Astros had the fourth-highest payroll in the Majors and the highest in National League, in addition to the highest payroll in franchise history."
just keep hammering away. i'm sure someone will say "damn, he's right" soon.
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Thank you for your keen insight, Jacksonian. The following is from astros.com: "Drayton’s commitment to winning was never more evident than during the 2006 season, when the Astros had the fourth-highest payroll in the Majors and the highest in National League, in addition to the highest payroll in franchise history."
That was caused by signing Clemens and carrying Bagwell's contract, which he knew was going to be reimbursed. Still, asst. GM Gottfried thinks they have payroll flexibility for 08.
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Give us a link.
According to USA TODAY (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2006): Astros had the 8th highest in 06 and 4th highest in NL in 06.
Did that commitment to winning go away for 07 (http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2007) when the payroll dropped 5 million and our ranking of $$$ dropped from 8th to 14th in MLB and from 4th to 7th in the NL and from 1st to 3rd in the NLC?
That chart has no date. After they signed Clemens in the middle of the season, the payroll went to 107 million, 4th behind the Yankees, Mets, and RedSox.
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Thank you for your keen insight, Jacksonian. The following is from astros.com: "Drayton’s commitment to winning was never more evident than during the 2006 season, when the Astros had the fourth-highest payroll in the Majors and the highest in National League, in addition to the highest payroll in franchise history."
Well, my immediate observation is: committment to winning/payroll and actual winning don't go hand in hand. I understand that adding big free agent X and Y ought to improve the club, but it is hardly guaranteed. Lee, williams and Loretta were all good to servicable and guess what? Payroll went up and wins went down. My concern is that could easily happen again. Add so and so, and so and so, and watch the Astros get worse and dig a deeper hole that is tough to manuever out of..
Really, how many great teams are successfully built using free agency as the primary means of acquiring talent?
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Thank you for your keen insight, Jacksonian. The following is from astros.com: "Drayton’s commitment to winning was never more evident than during the 2006 season, when the Astros had the fourth-highest payroll in the Majors and the highest in National League, in addition to the highest payroll in franchise history."
That was 92.5 mil to start the season then with the addition of Clemens mid-season it jumped to 4th highest. Nowhere near a 140mil to start the season as you propose.
This year started at 87.5mil.
Only the Yankees, more than once, and the Red Sox, once, have started the season with a payroll higher than $140 mil.
Your ass-ertions are unrealistic.
Read more, post less.
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Well, my immediate observation is: committment to winning/payroll and actual winning don't go hand in hand. I understand that adding big free agent X and Y ought to improve the club, but it is hardly guaranteed. Lee, williams and Loretta were all good to servicable and guess what? Payroll went up and wins went down. My concern is that could easily happen again. Add so and so, and so and so, and watch the Astros get worse and dig a deeper hole that is tough to manuever out of..
Really, how many great teams are successfully built using free agency as the primary means of acquiring talent?
Unfortunately Drayton Mclane has panicked. He's admitted that he takes advice from fans such as we see here, shiny objects are all that will placate them. Marketing doesn't build a team systematically. Dedicated, experienced, knowledgable baseball executives build teams that way.
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Only the Yankees, more than once, and the Red Sox, once, have started the season with a payroll higher than $140 mil.
Your ass-ertions are unrealistic.
Read more, post less.
Game, set, match.
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Game, set, match.
Actually, the only thing left is for Jim to say fuck off.
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Actually, the only thing left is for Jim to say fuck off.
Actually, the only thing left is for Spack to eat one of troll's internal organs... spleens are the preferred choice, I believe.
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Actually, the only thing left is for Spack to eat one of troll's internal organs... spleens are the preferred choice, I believe.
This is a common misconception. Spack prefers pancreas. He prefered perineum until it was explained that grundle ain't an organ.
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Noe, the way I see it the initial spend was last year on Carlos. Whatever he buys this year (ARod, Rowand/Torii Hunter/Andruw, trade for a starter) would be above and beyond the initial and would give the team the depth it cannot get from its' farm system. Would you agree with me that it will take years to rebuild the farm? That is why I believe a significant increase in payroll is not only called for this offseason but almost mandatory.
I don't know if it will take years to rebuild the farm or that it's a rebuild at the major league level either, just better play from these major leaguers to allow the Pattons and Towles and yes even the Pences to come up when ready and not rushed like they are right now. I can't really say if this is a bad team or a team playing badly per se. It is a team that has been hindered quite a bit with injuries most of the year (Oswalt, Jennings, Lidge, Everett, Scott) and under performance by those who were counted on to provide important performance (Ensberg/Lane/Burke/Berkman early on). In 2000, the performance of the team was very similarily affected (injuries: Wagner, Biggio, Alou, Reynolds, Powell and performance: Lima, Holt, Melusky). In 2001, the team got healthier and got better performances from different players. And they won the NL Central that year after the last place finish in 2000. The significant acquisition via free agent that offseason? Brad Ausmus. Jeff Bagwell called him the Messiah because he was supposed to be the reason the Astros turned it around... and they did.
Can the same thing happen again?
Yes, but it's not about entirely shipping out everyone and also about bringing in a ton of superstars either. It's about identifying where you got less performance than should be expected and where health really affected your team. Once you do that, then react to it and make the changes properly. Don't just go out and buy a brand new A-Rod because the fans say so.
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just keep hammering away. i'm sure someone will say "damn, he's right" soon.
Damn, he's right. Oh wait ... this is a different "he" ... nevermind.
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I don't know if it will take years to rebuild the farm or that it's a rebuild at the major league level either, just better play from these major leaguers to allow the Pattons and Towles and yes even the Pences to come up when ready and not rushed like they are right now. I can't really say if this is a bad team or a team playing badly per se. It is a team that has been hindered quite a bit with injuries most of the year (Oswalt, Jennings, Lidge, Everett, Scott) and under performance by those who were counted on to provide important performance (Ensberg/Lane/Burke/Berkman early on). In 2000, the performance of the team was very similarily affected (injuries: Wagner, Biggio, Alou, Reynolds, Powell and performance: Lima, Holt, Melusky). In 2001, the team got healthier and got better performances from different players. And they won the NL Central that year after the last place finish in 2000. The significant acquisition via free agent that offseason? Brad Ausmus. Jeff Bagwell called him the Messiah because he was supposed to be the reason the Astros turned it around... and they did.
Can the same thing happen again?
Yes, but it's not about entirely shipping out everyone and also about bringing in a ton of superstars either. It's about identifying where you got less performance than should be expected and where health really affected your team. Once you do that, then react to it and make the changes properly. Don't just go out and buy a brand new A-Rod because the fans say so.
Agreed.
Don't need superstars, just consistent positive offensive contributors from 3B, RF, and catcher. This could be Lamb, Scott, and Munson, or it could be somebody from outside the organization. Either way, they need to figure it out this offseason. Something I guess that wasn't done well last offseason.
A-Rod is absurd, we already have a stud shortstop.
Pitching is going to be the hardest part of the offseason though. If Drayton does open the wallet, I bet it will be for a legit #2 starter.
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Agreed.
Don't need superstars, just consistent positive offensive contributors from 3B, RF, and catcher. This could be Lamb, Scott, and Munson, or it could be somebody from outside the organization. Either way, they need to figure it out this offseason. Something I guess that wasn't done well last offseason.
A-Rod is absurd, we already have a stud shortstop.
Pitching is going to be the hardest part of the offseason though. If Drayton does open the wallet, I bet it will be for a legit #2 starter.
Eggszactly. The spend should be on a starter and #2 is right there what they need. And not speculation of a #2 but as close to a #2 as they can get. And spend they should.
They just need Berkman to be Berkman again (like he's showing again towards the end of this season). They need Scott to stay healthy enough to be a regular RF starter. They need Pence to get better in CF and continue to grow as a major league hitter (from very good to very great if possible). They need Lee to maintain. They need something consistent at 3rd base for the entire season. They need a second baseman for defense. They need a catcher for defense. They need Everett to be healthy. They need Lidge to be healthy. They need Oswalt to be healthy. They need Qualls to be consistent and up his performance a tad (now that he's the 8th inning guy). They need a #2 hitter from the list of candidates to step up and never lose that position. They need a #5 hitter from the list of candidates to step up and never lose that position. They need to decide quickly if Pence is not the leadoff, who will be? Is that person in the organization right now? If not, what are the options? They need another stud reliever for the 7th inning to step up from the list of candidates. They need a pair of lefty relievers. They need a power hitting right handed bench guy. They need a power hitting left handed bench guy.
And they need to decide who is who from either internal candidates or from the list of young kids in the minors (Anderson, Patton, Guiterrez, Albers, Towles, et. al.). Then you decide: with no one fitting what we need internally, lets go look for some answers externally. Trade or Free Agency, whatever works best (free agency cost less in terms of gutting the minor leagues, but more in terms of dinero).
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Agreed.
Don't need superstars, just consistent positive offensive contributors from 3B, RF, and catcher. This could be Lamb, Scott, and Munson, or it could be somebody from outside the organization. Either way, they need to figure it out this offseason. Something I guess that wasn't done well last offseason.
A-Rod is absurd, we already have a stud shortstop.
Pitching is going to be the hardest part of the offseason though. If Drayton does open the wallet, I bet it will be for a legit #2 starter.
What no. 2 types will be available in the FA market this year? I think that the pickings are slim.
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What no. 2 types will be available in the FA market this year? I think that the pickings are slim.
Here's Footer's analysis from astros.com.
On that note, the free-agent pool for starting pitchers is very thin heading into this offseason. The list is peppered with several former All-Stars who have had enormously successful careers who are now over 40 -- i.e. Rogers, Greg Maddux, Curt Schilling, and, dare we say it, Roger Clemens. Others, such as Livan Hernandez, Russ Ortiz and Jeff Weaver have had varying levels of success in the past but will command way more than they're actually worth at this point in their careers.
In other words, don't expect the Astros to find that much-needed No. 2 pitcher from the free-agent market. He's not out there. They're going to have to depend on the youngsters to solidify the pitching staff, which means Troy Patton and Juan Gutierrez are going to have to step up next year and Wandy Rodriguez is going to have to figure out how to be consistent throughout the course of a full season.
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If Schilling has anything left in the tank, I wouldn't mind seeing him return.
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If Schilling has anything left in the tank, I wouldn't mind seeing him return.
I just don't trust him (or any of the others in that list) not to break down.
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And they won the NL Central that year after the last place finish in 2000.
It felt like last place, but it was only 4th place, a game out of 3rd place Milwaukee.
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Then he needs to restrict his comments to cheerleading. He got into a bad area when he criticized Purpura for not signing FAs to wildy inflated contracts. And he's boxed himself in a corner, at least in this fans opinion. Either he spends more money or he's a hypocrite. Fair enough, it's his bat and his ball, my only option is watch or not watch. But he's also painting whatever FOT he can con into becoming his GM into a corner. MLB has already put the Astros in a bind with the comments regarding Cooper, now the interim GM is negotiating with a free agent, Ausmus, for next season. Catcher is one of the few spots on this team that has any kind of movement possibilities. Tal Smith is putting into place elements of a scheme that will further reduce the options for the new GM.
I heard Ausmus on the radio this morning. He has had one talk with Tal. He said there have been no meetings with his agent. He also said that he wants Clemens money.
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He also said that he wants Clemens money.
Don't we all...
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I heard Ausmus on the radio this morning. He has had one talk with Tal. He said there have been no meetings with his agent. He also said that he wants Clemens money.
I hope they do pursue this. I would also be in favor of paying Brad from Clemens' money.
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My apologies if this is a big long... I think it might be.
Looking at the 2008 roster, and assuming no major trades of people like Berkman, Lee, Pence or Oswalt:
C:see below
1B: Berkman
2B:see below
SS: Everett (No I don't think A-Rod is even a remote possibility)
3B: Wigginton (as much as people like Lamb, he is probably better overall)
LF: Lee
CF: Pence/Addition
RF: Scott/Pence
So from a position player outlook there are a couple of things that need to be addressed. First and foremost is can they get a Lead-off/#2 type hitter. While this doesn't specifically address the defensive holes, it is the first question that needs to be answered for this team. You have to have stability in the top of your line-up to be a successful offense. Pence is OK at leadoff this year, but I think he would be a better #2 hitter if they can find another good option at lead-off... sounds like the same issues this team always had with Biggio leading off, but I digress. To me, the team needs to check in on Philly again. They have a couple of guys who could fill the bill as lead-off guys, but this would push Scott out of the line-up. I support the people who would like to see Scott be given a full season, and not have the rug pulled out after a bad month or so. He is pretty capable at batting in the 5/6/7 slot, not great, but doesn't suck either. But if it means getting a real CFer (not that Pence isn't trying), one who can lead-off... well I think that would be the reason to bump Scott to the bench. Barring that addition, there is ZERO reason to not give Scott 500-600 ABs in 07 in RF.
OK, now moving on to the holes I mentioned above. At Catcher, I just see the club re-signing Ausmus. I think there was a chance this would not be needed had Gimenez not gotten hurt this year and had a year to learn from Ausmus. But he did and he wasn't able to. So Ausmus is probably the best thing they could add at Catcher, even if he is moved to a back-up type role. Then comes down the choices to be the regular/split catcher with Ausmus: Gimenez, Munson, Quintero, Towles. I am going to throw out Towles just on the principle that he SHOULD get some more time at AA/AAA before being thrown into the fire. Munson is probably the best hitter of the bunch, and has improved behind the plate. I think the club has come to the conclusion that Quintero is a AAA/AAAA player. So I expect the battle for the other catching spot to be between Gimenez and Munson. Personally I think there is less than a 1% chance the team keeps a 3rd "catcher" type. So take your pick on who you think fills that role.
2B is more a question. The team would LOVE Burke to take that job. So far we have all witnessed him pissing that away. Even so, I think unless something falls in their lap (I think Loretta is leaving via FA), he is probably the opening day starter. Conrad in AAA was the primary 2B, IIRC, and he was not impressive. Ransom will likely be on the bench, but I am not sure his talent for 2B. And Bruntlett seems the only other candidate who would be likely to win the job (in house). So barring a trade for a 2B, which would be really nice if they could get one who could lead-off, I see Burke starting at 2B. No this doesn't make me happy, just seems the most reasonable.
I see Lamb and Loretta both being offered arbitration, but I think both leave via FA. I love both players for the roles they play, which to me is Lefty bench hitter and solid 3rd Middle Infielder who has a contact approach at the plate. I just think they will get better offers elsewhere. If I could keep only one of them, I would make a play for Loretta, whom I think should be batting #2 not #5 in the line-up when he plays. He would be a better fit at 2B, but eventually the team needs to either find out what Burke can do as an everyday player, or get rid of him.
So I see a final line-up like this:
C: Munson/Gimenez & Ausmus
1B: Berkman
2B: Burke (maybe Loretta)
SS: Everett
3B: Wigginton
LF: Lee
CF: Pence/Bourn?
RF: Scott/Pence
Bench: Ransom, Bruntlett, Lane, Anderson/Scott/FA
This gives you 13 position players. Which would allow for 12 pitchers, since so many seem to be going this way. If Loretta is kept along with Burke, I could see 14, or having Burke fill that last bench slot. I will write another really long post about the pitching staff later.
And just for laughs, if this is the line-up here is where I think they should bat (not that any one cares):
Burke
Pence
Berkman
Lee
Wigginton
Scott
Everett
Catcher
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I would also be in favor of paying Brad from Clemens' money.
Don't give BudGirl any ideas on what it would take to "land" Brad... she might do it!
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And just for laughs, if this is the line-up here is where I think they should bat (not that any one cares):
Burke
Pence
Berkman
Lee
Wigginton
Scott
Everett
Catcher
Swap Everett and Burke and I'm happy.
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Swap Everett and Burke and I'm happy.
Please..Pleeeease don't start that tread again.
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Swap Everett and I'm happy.
bullshit
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Swap Everett and Burke and I'm happy.
Burke at SS or Everett leading off? I'm just trying to clarify which ridiculous statement we should be rolling our eyes at.
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My apologies if this is a big long... I think it might be.
Looking at the 2008 roster, and assuming no major trades of people like Berkman, Lee, Pence or Oswalt:
C:see below
1B: Berkman
2B:see below
SS: Everett (No I don't think A-Rod is even a remote possibility)
3B: Wigginton (as much as people like Lamb, he is probably better overall)
LF: Lee
CF: Pence/Addition
RF: Scott/Pence
So from a position player outlook there are a couple of things that need to be addressed. First and foremost is can they get a Lead-off/#2 type hitter. While this doesn't specifically address the defensive holes, it is the first question that needs to be answered for this team. You have to have stability in the top of your line-up to be a successful offense. Pence is OK at leadoff this year, but I think he would be a better #2 hitter if they can find another good option at lead-off... sounds like the same issues this team always had with Biggio leading off, but I digress. To me, the team needs to check in on Philly again. They have a couple of guys who could fill the bill as lead-off guys, but this would push Scott out of the line-up. I support the people who would like to see Scott be given a full season, and not have the rug pulled out after a bad month or so. He is pretty capable at batting in the 5/6/7 slot, not great, but doesn't suck either. But if it means getting a real CFer (not that Pence isn't trying), one who can lead-off... well I think that would be the reason to bump Scott to the bench. Barring that addition, there is ZERO reason to not give Scott 500-600 ABs in 07 in RF.
OK, now moving on to the holes I mentioned above. At Catcher, I just see the club re-signing Ausmus. I think there was a chance this would not be needed had Gimenez not gotten hurt this year and had a year to learn from Ausmus. But he did and he wasn't able to. So Ausmus is probably the best thing they could add at Catcher, even if he is moved to a back-up type role. Then comes down the choices to be the regular/split catcher with Ausmus: Gimenez, Munson, Quintero, Towles. I am going to throw out Towles just on the principle that he SHOULD get some more time at AA/AAA before being thrown into the fire. Munson is probably the best hitter of the bunch, and has improved behind the plate. I think the club has come to the conclusion that Quintero is a AAA/AAAA player. So I expect the battle for the other catching spot to be between Gimenez and Munson. Personally I think there is less than a 1% chance the team keeps a 3rd "catcher" type. So take your pick on who you think fills that role.
2B is more a question. The team would LOVE Burke to take that job. So far we have all witnessed him pissing that away. Even so, I think unless something falls in their lap (I think Loretta is leaving via FA), he is probably the opening day starter. Conrad in AAA was the primary 2B, IIRC, and he was not impressive. Ransom will likely be on the bench, but I am not sure his talent for 2B. And Bruntlett seems the only other candidate who would be likely to win the job (in house). So barring a trade for a 2B, which would be really nice if they could get one who could lead-off, I see Burke starting at 2B. No this doesn't make me happy, just seems the most reasonable.
I see Lamb and Loretta both being offered arbitration, but I think both leave via FA. I love both players for the roles they play, which to me is Lefty bench hitter and solid 3rd Middle Infielder who has a contact approach at the plate. I just think they will get better offers elsewhere. If I could keep only one of them, I would make a play for Loretta, whom I think should be batting #2 not #5 in the line-up when he plays. He would be a better fit at 2B, but eventually the team needs to either find out what Burke can do as an everyday player, or get rid of him.
So I see a final line-up like this:
C: Munson/Gimenez & Ausmus
1B: Berkman
2B: Burke (maybe Loretta)
SS: Everett
3B: Wigginton
LF: Lee
CF: Pence/Bourn?
RF: Scott/Pence
Bench: Ransom, Bruntlett, Lane, Anderson/Scott/FA
This gives you 13 position players. Which would allow for 12 pitchers, since so many seem to be going this way. If Loretta is kept along with Burke, I could see 14, or having Burke fill that last bench slot. I will write another really long post about the pitching staff later.
And just for laughs, if this is the line-up here is where I think they should bat (not that any one cares):
Burke
Pence
Berkman
Lee
Wigginton
Scott
Everett
Catcher
I like your lineup, except I think we should platoon Lamb and Ty. And I think Munson would bat ahead of Everett.
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Swap Everett and Burke and I'm happy.
How about Pence leadoff, Everett #2, Burke #8?
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I like your lineup, except I think we should platoon Lamb and Ty. And I think Munson would bat ahead of Everett.
Look again. He fired lamb. Read more, post less.
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bullshit
Amen. AE has been sorely missed. He's an Astro.
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Look again. He fired lamb. Read more, post less.
Umm, fired isn't the word there.... I am assuming he will leave because of better options somewhere else. Here I see him being used like he has been recently... which is a bench role player more than a platoon or even starter.
I do have them offering Arb to both him and Loretta, but expect both to leave for better options.
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Burke at SS or Everett leading off? I'm just trying to clarify which ridiculous statement we should be rolling our eyes at.
Everett leading off. I think he has the temprement to do it well. I would prefer (though it's probably not going to happen) that Burke be playing somewhere else and Loretta be manning second next year. That would upset the lineup posted however.
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Everett leading off. I think he has the temprement to do it well. I would prefer (though it's probably not going to happen) that Burke be playing somewhere else and Loretta be manning second next year. That would upset the lineup posted however.
I like Mark Loretta. He is a true professional hitter. He can play any position in the infield very well. He is a veteran who plays hard all the time, no matter what the standings read.
That being said, he has to be the slowest non-fat man I have ever seen. Leadfoot. Station to station. I would prefer more speed (not named Burke) from a middle infield position.
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Ok, here is my long-winded opinion on the Pitching Staff.
Oswalt is a given
Woody is under contract
Most of the other cast are under club control. Time to sort through the muck.
Well the FA options are less than appealing for what the team needs. I figure first and foremost the team WILL offer arb to Jennings. I don't think they will seek a long term deal with him, but if there is a strong chance he will miss all of next year with his injury, then it is possible if he accepts arb, that they might work out some 2-year deal that is less per year, but reasonable over the 2 years given he will miss all of the next year. So I am going to make the assumption that Jennings is not on the active staff next year, either through losing him after offering Arbitration or him being out for a year getting him healthy. But I will add in where I think he would fall should he be healthy and on the club.
Starters:
Oswalt
Patton/Jennings (yes I have Patton in the 2 spot, least of the evils)
Williams (Woody has shown that he is pretty good when looking at the whole season)
Backe
Rodriguez (Wandy has shown too much to not be giving him a chance to be consistent)
If Jennings is back and healthy, I am not sure who would move to bullpen, Wandy or Brandon. I think that might be a spring battle should it occur.
Bullpen:
Lidge (barring a trade of him to fill other needs he is the closer)
Qualls
Miller (I figure reverT will be re-signed as they need a quality lefty)
Sampson (he is a good swing man candidate, hopefully he can make it work)
Albers (I want to find a place for him starting, but he does run out of gas)
McLemore/Nieve (2nd lefty is always nice to have, Nieve comming back from injury)
That makes 11 pitchers so far, 5 starters and 6 bullpen guys. I stop here because if Jennings is around, Backe or Wandy is going to push back into the bullpen to make 12.
Ok, here is where the long winded part starts. I think there will be a major domino affect this off-season. Especially if Jennings is kept and is healthy enough to pitch in 08. The Astros have too many pitchers all about the same spot in Backe, Rodriguez, Sampson, Albers and Nieve. All of these guys "MIGHT" be starters or "MIGHT" be swing men in the bullpen or "MIGHT" be AAAA pitchers. I figure if Jennings is around, we should expect to see 2 or 3 of them moved in deals, as they are running out of options and the team needs to move them or lose them. Maybe I am not seeing things correctly but there seems to be a major problem with trying to keep them all. Not that you wouldn't want to, but eventually you have to "fish or cut bait". And I think this is the off-season to make those hard choices. Call it the first big test of the new GM. Even if Jennings is not in the picture, I think you will see some of them moved. The big question then becomes "For what?". I am not going to speculate much on that, because it is like chasing the wind. But IF a deal for some speedy lead-off type CF/2B is made, look for some of these guys to be moved as part of the deal.
That could solve the issue, but since I am somewhat doubtful about any moves to significantly enhance the club without parting with Lidge, I expect that they will be moved for some prospects to re-stock the system.
As Footer has said, "Looks a lot like this year's lineup, which, quite frankly, makes me very uncomfortable. "
But unfortunately that is where the Astros are. They don't have alot of trading chips other teams want, except for Lee, Oswalt, Berkman and Lidge. Trading away Patton just seems silly when the team needs more help pitching than anywhere else. Trading Pence also make little sense as you need to have cheap players who produce to win too. And while I am suggesting that the team is likely to trade away some pitching, I am not sure that is a good thing or not. I think it will be a situation of no choice, either you trade them or lose them might be the motivation.
The Astros are not in a good situation, right now. Which is why it is SO important that they get this GM thing right, because they could easily right the ship with a few shrewd moves, or sink into a 90s Brewers/Pirates type hell if the wrong moves are made. But mostly I expect the 08 Astros to look an awful lot like the 07 Astros. So don't be shocked if that happens.
ETA(Forgot McLemore/Nieve)
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On the #2 starter candidates, remember that obtaining one in the off season (trade or free agency) does not necessarily mean you won't have one available to you for the 2008 season. In fact, in some ways it can be prudent to actually not obtain a pitcher that is only marginally better for your #2 option in the off season (trade or free agency) than what you already have as candidates in-house.
Let's take a step back for a minute: In 1998, the Houston Astros lacked a true bonafide ACE (stopper) on the team and did not satisfy that need in the off season via trade or free agency. In fact, the Astros under Gerry Hunsicker, signed Pete Schorek as their free agent pitcher acquire. Hardly anybodies idea of a #1 much less a starter who could last for an entire season given his age and mileage. So the fear was that this team would be well stocked on the every day position players and not so well stocked in the pitching department. Shane Reynolds was every one's idea of a quasi #2 at best, solid #3 very much so. Unknown were Mike Hampton, Jose Lima and Sean Bergman. Nothing that would make anyone stand up and notice and say "Wow, look at that rotation!". So adding Schorek to that rotation caused the eyebrows to raise and more than one TZer type "Thanks Gerry" before Opening Day.
That year, Jose Lima came out of nowhere, Hampton worked his way into an equal if not better option for the #2 than Reynolds and Reynolds just was steady as always. Bergman was a pretty good #4 and Schorek held his own at the #5. Pitching in the dome helped, but we'll leave that for now and move on. So at mid-season, all anyone could talk about (mostly players) was how the team itself would move into the realm of favorite from just contender if they had an ACE. So Gerry pulled the trigger on a #1 named Randy Johnson and made Peter Gammons stutter in shock while reporting it on ESPN (a side benefit for sure).
So does neo-GM 2008 need to make a splash and get a #2 this off season come hell or high water? I say not necessarily, but I also agree that perhaps many of us are looking for that splash to happen. Does it need to happen? No, not at all. It can happen at the trading deadline too and again, it may be an added benefit to take a look at a Patton or Albers for half a season to see what they pan out to be, also a Brandon Backe. Juneberno, but to do it in the off season means you are committed to that guy and will have to shelf looking at the kids for at least another half a season.
But then again, can you keep the fans from booing until May/June if things don't go well? All bets are off.
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So does neo-GM 2008 need to make a splash and get a #2 this off season come hell or high water? I say not necessarily, but I also agree that perhaps many of us are looking for that splash to happen. Does it need to happen? No, not at all. It can happen at the trading deadline too and again, it may be an added benefit to take a look at a Patton or Albers for half a season to see what they pan out to be, also a Brandon Backe. Juneberno, but to do it in the off season means you are committed to that guy and will have to shelf looking at the kids for at least another half a season.
But then again, can you keep the fans from booing until May/June if things don't go well? All bets are off.
Actually I think I am actually advocating that. Or at least that, that will be what happens in 08. I think things would be different if the post-08 class were available this off-season, but given what is out there, I don't see the Astros doing much if anything in the FA market this year. Although I am sure that will cause lots of people to complain. The reality is there isn't much out there worth getting at the price they are going to be asking.
I also don't think they will be active traders for much that would excite people (unless they can land that lead-off type).
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After last night, I'm almost optimistic enough (what a horrible quality for an Astros fan) to pencil Backe in as the number 3 starter. Am I nuts for thinking that, assuming his arm holds up, he's good for 14 wins next year? It's been a joy to see that competitive fire back on the mound.
As for the number two, I don't think Patton's an unreasonable assumption at this point. He's been a hoss so far this year, and some winter ball will hopefully give him that last little edge. The Hampton/Lima allegory seems solid to me.
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As for the number two, I don't think Patton's an unreasonable assumption at this point. He's been a hoss so far this year, and some winter ball will hopefully give him that last little edge.
boy, i do. not at this stage of his development anyway, and certainly not next year.
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After last night, I'm almost optimistic enough (what a horrible quality for an Astros fan) to pencil Backe in as the number 3 starter. Am I nuts for thinking that, assuming his arm holds up, he's good for 14 wins next year? It's been a joy to see that competitive fire back on the mound.
As for the number two, I don't think Patton's an unreasonable assumption at this point. He's been a hoss so far this year, and some winter ball will hopefully give him that last little edge. The Hampton/Lima allegory seems solid to me.
The problem becomes IPs for Patton. Would he be able to provide over 200 IPs for the first time in his career or do you spread amongst the entire rotation the responsibility to eat up innings. If you don't find an inning eater at the top of the rotation and no one picks up the slack during the season, you get the bullpen in more games. With Jennings out this year and no one really picking up the slack, the bullpen was not as good as it used to be. The amount of work you want to give bullpen guys depends on the innings eater in the rotation. You need at least one and I would hestitate to put that workload on Roy Oswalt again. The irony may be that if Jennings would accept a one year incentive deal and he's healthy, he could be that inning eater they need at #2.
Again, could they keep the fans from booing before late May, early June to let this kind of work itself out?
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boy, i do. not at this stage of his development anyway, and certainly not next year.
Jim, you're right. Patton looks like a 4-5 at best at this time. He'd be a stretch at no. 3 at this point.
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The irony may be that if Jennings would accept a one year incentive deal and he's healthy, he could be that inning eater they need at #2.
I am starting to think this may be the best option (assuming his injury isn't a career changer - which could be a big 'if') ... given the lack of pitching on the free agent market Jennings’s ceiling could be as high as any (of course we've seen the basement)...
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If Wandy is not in the rotation, they should trade him. He has done well this season, for the most part, controlling his emotions. However I don't think he'd be happy as a reliever. And if he's not happy, he wont be good.
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If Wandy is not in the rotation, they should trade him. He has done well this season, for the most part, controlling his emotions. However I don't think he'd be happy as a reliever. And if he's not happy, he wont be good.
Will anyone offer anything for such a Jeckyl/Hyde pitcher? I realize that he's a portsider, but it seems that will be the big stumbling block to moving him for anything significant.
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Will anyone offer anything for such a Jeckyl/Hyde pitcher? I realize that he's a portsider, but it seems that will be the big stumbling block to moving him for anything significant.
Unfortunately, the one guy who might recently lost his job in Pittsburgh.