OrangeWhoopass.com Forums

General Discussion => Talk Zone => Topic started by: DVauthrin on June 13, 2007, 02:11:41 am

Title: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: DVauthrin on June 13, 2007, 02:11:41 am
Now, I realize the end result in the 9th sucked, but I saw a lot of positives in the chavez/crosby at bats.    He had command of the 96-97 MPH FB and threw 3 very good sliders to chavez and crosby.   The only bad pitch he made in those sequences was the pitch crosby popped up, as it was a hanging slider.   

To anyone who thinks same lidge/he's a headcase, consider he stranded ellis at 3b going through the best hitter/s in the A's lineup with no outs.   If it was mental with him, he'd have thought here we go again after the kotsay/ellis hits and at mimimum allowed that run to score if not fail to get out of the inning.    Also, the lidge of last year/early this year didn't have the slider he displayed for most of the inning along with the fastball command he showed tonight.   He had no clue where the ball ended up last year.    I think he'll be alright in the role from here on out.



Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: Duder on June 13, 2007, 02:43:37 am
Lidge has been pitching lights out lately(no pun intended).  He was going to give up a run sooner or later.  I think it was solely a coincedence that he gave up that run on the same night he reclaimed his closer's role.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: Mr. Happy on June 13, 2007, 06:33:30 am
Lidge has been pitching lights out lately(no pun intended).  He was going to give up a run sooner or later.  I think it was solely a coincedence that he gave up that run on the same night he reclaimed his closer's role.

I generally liked what I saw of Lidge last night, despite the results. However, I especially enjoyed Bork's perf. 4 K's in 2 IP.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: JimR on June 13, 2007, 07:58:15 am
Now, I realize the end result in the 9th sucked, but I saw a lot of positives in the chavez/crosby at bats.    He had command of the 96-97 MPH FB and threw 3 very good sliders to chavez and crosby.   The only bad pitch he made in those sequences was the pitch crosby popped up, as it was a hanging slider.   

To anyone who thinks same lidge/he's a headcase, consider he stranded ellis at 3b going through the best hitter/s in the A's lineup with no outs.   If it was mental with him, he'd have thought here we go again after the kotsay/ellis hits and at mimimum allowed that run to score if not fail to get out of the inning.    Also, the lidge of last year/early this year didn't have the slider he displayed for most of the inning along with the fastball command he showed tonight.   He had no clue where the ball ended up last year.    I think he'll be alright in the role from here on out.

one bad pitch in a month, and the guy hits it out. bad luck, not a headcase.

he overthrew that slider and produced a spinner.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: Limey on June 13, 2007, 09:09:28 am
one bad pitch in a month, and the guy hits it out. bad luck, not a headcase.

he overthrew that slider and produced a spinner.

He was cheered when he arrived at the mound.  Booed after the dinger.  Booed after the double.  Cheered as he left, stranding the runner at 3rd.

Strange crowd.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: gleach on June 13, 2007, 09:14:28 am
Typical Houston crowd.  I am surprised they did anything unless the giant fucking sign in the  sky told them to.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: JimR on June 13, 2007, 09:15:27 am
He was cheered when he arrived at the mound.  Booed after the dinger.  Booed after the double.  Cheered as he left, stranding the runner at 3rd.

Strange crowd.

frontrunners
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: Tom Servo on June 13, 2007, 09:17:44 am
He was cheered when he arrived at the mound.  Booed after the dinger.  Booed after the double.  Cheered as he left, stranding the runner at 3rd.

Strange crowd.

Was thinking the same thing.  Maybe they forgot their meds. 

I thought it was very impressive that he was able to bear down and not let the 2nd run score.  If he was a headcase, he would have imploded after that.  Lidge is back. 
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: JimR on June 13, 2007, 09:18:55 am
Was thinking the same thing.  Maybe they forgot their meds. 

I thought it was very impressive that he was able to bear down and not let the 2nd run score.  If he was a headcase, he would have imploded after that.  Lidge is back. 

agree completely.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: drew corleone on June 13, 2007, 09:23:49 am
Was thinking the same thing.  Maybe they forgot their meds. 

I thought it was very impressive that he was able to bear down and not let the 2nd run score.  If he was a headcase, he would have imploded after that.  Lidge is back. 

The last pitch he threw that inning was nasty.

Hey, and hats off to Bork, too. Nice job of stiriking out the side in the 10th.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: mihoba on June 13, 2007, 09:36:12 am
The last pitch he threw that inning was nasty.

Hey, and hats off to Bork, too. Nice job of stiriking out the side in the 10th.

As I mentioned in the recap, Lidge was dangerously close to walking Swisher, but he swung at a 3-0 FB that was 6" low. Like a switch being closed, he was nasty after that.

Bork was dealing, glad he got the win. He earned and deserved it.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: BudGirl on June 13, 2007, 09:49:19 am
They do the freaking wave during the game.  That should say enough about what they know about baseball.

I didn't think Garner should have brought Lidge in to pitch the 9th (and that was before Lidge even tossed a pitch).  I wanted Wheeler to go back out and if he got into any trouble then bring in Lidge.

Also thought Lee should have had that Kendall hit in the 2nd.

Oh well, Ausmus played great, gleach got to toss the first pitch, and the Astros and Spurs won.  Not a bad night for me.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: MikeyBoy on June 13, 2007, 09:51:00 am
Typical Houston crowd.  I am surprised they did anything unless the giant fucking sign in the  sky told them to.

The worst part of going to a game is the people around you. Last night I had a guy "explaining" the game to his girlfriend sitting right behind me, three guys sitting in front of me who evidently came to the game to do two things, drink beer and play on their Blackberrys, and the couple right next to me that must not have eat for two days leading up to the event. Frust. Rating.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: dirty steve on June 13, 2007, 09:52:28 am
He was cheered when he arrived at the mound.  Booed after the dinger.  Booed after the double.  Cheered as he left, stranding the runner at 3rd.

Strange crowd.
i never, ever boo and this really had me stewing the whole way home from the game, even with the astros winning.  i turned to my two friends after the kotsay AB, amidst all the booing,  and asked why all these people cant see the realistic picture like we do.  i know there were some good fans in the crowd that realized what lidge had done and that the run that kotsay produced was the third lidge had yielded since may 1.  they cant see that pitch was maybe the first bad one he has thrown in six weeks.  but sure as shit, they turned on him when that ball went over the RF fence, only to cheer him when he left the runner stranded at third.  they act like this is his first outing since giving up the nady HR earlier in the year.

of course, a guy sitting next to us wondered why everett and his weak bat was in there.  i didnt hear his response when i asked him who he would put there in everett's stead.

as much as it bothers me to read this criticism of our schizophrenic crowd, it's something you really cant argue with.  but do know there are some of us there who dont spend the whole game on their blackberry, at the buffet, or doing the wave.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: dirty steve on June 13, 2007, 09:57:35 am
The worst part of going to a game is the people around you. Last night I had a guy "explaining" the game to his girlfriend sitting right behind me, three guys sitting in front of me who evidently came to the game to do two things, drink beer and play on their Blackberrys, and the couple right next to me that must not have eat for two days leading up to the event. Frust. Rating.
were you in sec. 209?  there were three guys in front of me who matched that description to a tee.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: MikeyBoy on June 13, 2007, 09:58:30 am
Also thought Lee should have had that Kendall hit in the 2nd.

One of the Blackberry twins looked up just in time to see Burke diving for the ball in the 5th?, so he belowed "good hustle Burkey". Of course, if had been watching the game then he would have seen Burke stuck in cement when the ball was hit.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: MikeyBoy on June 13, 2007, 10:00:06 am
were you in sec. 209?  there were three guys in front of me who matched that description to a tee.

Nope, 131. I have a feeling that description applies to half the guys at the game.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: remy on June 13, 2007, 10:00:23 am
I'm not going to say that there weren't possibly a few fucktards booing Brad Lidge last night, but I will say that the booing after the double could have easily been directed towards the umpire for calling that a fair ball.  As for any booing after the HR, that could have just been them airing their displeasure with the guy who hit it.  You know, "Meanie!  That's not a nice thing to do in our house!  BOOOoooOOooO!"

...

Then again, they could have all been booing at Lidge. The hell do I know.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: Gizzmonic on June 13, 2007, 10:06:22 am
One of the Blackberry twins looked up just in time to see Burke diving for the ball in the 5th?, so he belowed "good hustle Burkey". Of course, if had been watching the game then he would have seen Burke stuck in cement when the ball was hit.

I was in 418, and I turned my head up the instant the ball was hit.  Burke was still rocking back and forth with his hands on his knees.

As for the fans, I'm glad people are showing up, but I don't understand the wave.  Especially when Qualls is working himself into a jam, why are you doing the wave?  There must be some weird ghosts possessing people in MMPUS.  I'm pretty sure I saw some spirits floating up by the train tracks last night.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: BudGirl on June 13, 2007, 10:33:37 am
Those people aren't there to watch the game.  Hell, I doubt a 1/6th of them saw the note on the board about Verlander.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: Limey on June 13, 2007, 10:55:32 am
Those people aren't there to watch the game.  Hell, I doubt a 1/6th of them saw the note on the board about Verlander.

I missed it because I was sending pithy SMSs to gleach about his "pitch".  He replied, accused me of jinxing Verlander, and I had no idea what he was talking about.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: BudGirl on June 13, 2007, 11:03:59 am
I missed it because I was sending pithy SMSs to gleach about his "pitch".  He replied, accused me of jinxing Verlander, and I had no idea what he was talking about.

At least he can multi-task.

They put up two different bulletins, one about the progress and then one when he pitched it. 
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: DVauthrin on June 13, 2007, 01:17:20 pm
one bad pitch in a month, and the guy hits it out. bad luck, not a headcase.

he overthrew that slider and produced a spinner.

he overthrew the one to crosby that ended the inning as well but overall I liked what I saw from him.  if it was mental no way it isn't at least 5-4 going to the bottom of the 9th if not more.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: Noe on June 13, 2007, 02:16:27 pm
he overthrew the one to crosby that ended the inning as well but overall I liked what I saw from him.  if it was mental no way it isn't at least 5-4 going to the bottom of the 9th if not more.

The slider to Crosby worked (as bad as it was) because he set him up by throwing some nasty shite down and in and also displaying that outstanding fastball on the outside corner.  Changing eye-levels north and south isn't entirely a bad thing if you show the hitter you can hit the south side of the strikezone effectively.  Of course, you'd rather it be a four seamer than a hanging slider going for the north side, but as you all saw, it worked.

The pitch to Kotsay was just bad and since Kotsay was the first batter, he was sold out on high, middle in.  He didn't come near to having a clue on the slider away and fastball in the previous two pitches.  Bad pitch, bad location, bad situation (being the first batter to face him looking for middle mistake pitch) that cost him.

He showed more on the next four hitters though to me, even though I'm sure the screaming throngs of hair on fire fans are furious at the results of the inning.  So what, Lidge was outstanding last night.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: DVauthrin on June 13, 2007, 02:46:35 pm
The slider to Crosby worked (as bad as it was) because he set him up by throwing some nasty shite down and in and also displaying that outstanding fastball on the outside corner.  Changing eye-levels north and south isn't entirely a bad thing if you show the hitter you can hit the south side of the strikezone effectively.  Of course, you'd rather it be a four seamer than a hanging slider going for the north side, but as you all saw, it worked.

The pitch to Kotsay was just bad and since Kotsay was the first batter, he was sold out on high, middle in.  He didn't come near to having a clue on the slider away and fastball in the previous two pitches.  Bad pitch, bad location, bad situation (being the first batter to face him looking for middle mistake pitch) that cost him.

He showed more on the next four hitters though to me, even though I'm sure the screaming throngs of hair on fire fans are furious at the results of the inning.  So what, Lidge was outstanding last night.

Yeah, the big difference in what i'm seeing now from lidge is that he knows where his pitches are going and how to hit his spots again.   He got away with a hanger to crosby because of that.    But, overall the fact he buckled down and got out of that jam tied should prove to any "doubters" that he is mentally fine for closing.   

I never thought it was mental, it was all mechanical with him: forgetting how to spot his fastball and throw the vintage slider.   But the sad thing is people only see blown save in first game back and assume the bad lidge is back.    There were far more positives than negatives in that inning for him.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: SeanBergmanRules on June 13, 2007, 02:49:00 pm
If the Astros intention is to trade Lidge, that outing could end up helping his trade value in the long run, as from what I've heard, the major concern among GMs looking at Lidge is not whether he can close, but whether he can mentally recover from a blown save.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: dirty steve on June 13, 2007, 02:50:30 pm
Yeah, the big difference in what i'm seeing now from lidge is that he knows where his pitches are going and how to hit his spots again.   He got away with a hanger to crosby because of that.    But, overall the fact he buckled down and got out of that jam tied should prove to any "doubters" that he is mentally fine for closing.   

I never thought it was mental, it was all mechanical with him: forgetting how to spot his fastball and throw the vintage slider.   But the sad thing is people only see blown save in first game back and assume the bad lidge is back.    There were far more positives than negatives in that inning for him.
this is what bothered me with the 'what have you done for me lately' crowd at the game.  they only thought of what just happened, instead of the dominance that he displayed since he had been removed from the closer role and then what happened after the runner ahd reached third base with no out.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: JimR on June 13, 2007, 02:52:41 pm
If the Astros intention is to trade Lidge, that outing could end up helping his trade value in the long run, as from what I've heard, the major concern among GMs looking at Lidge is not whether he can close, but whether he can mentally recover from a blown save.

what you have heard from whom? who said baseball people wonder about his mental health?
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: dirty steve on June 13, 2007, 02:54:19 pm
If the Astros intention is to trade Lidge, that outing could end up helping his trade value in the long run, as from what I've heard, the major concern among GMs looking at Lidge is not whether he can close, but whether he can mentally recover from a blown save.
that's why i'd put him out there tonight if the situation presented itself. 
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: Andyzipp on June 13, 2007, 03:00:00 pm
what you have heard from whom? who said baseball people wonder about his mental health?
VIHH
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: Noe on June 13, 2007, 03:01:00 pm
what you have heard from whom? who said baseball people wonder about his mental health?

That's just GM-speak that actually means "I'm trying to low ball you here... how about a bucket of used baseballs and some pine tar rags and you give me your mental case... hehe... deal?".

"Yeah, screw you" is pretty much the pat answer of course.
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: pravata on June 13, 2007, 03:12:00 pm
what you have heard from whom? who said baseball people wonder about his mental health?

"Some say"
Title: Re: Lidge's return to closing analysis(specifically crosby/chavez at bats)
Post by: Lefty on June 13, 2007, 04:36:47 pm
"Some say"

Outstanding.  "They" always do.