Author Topic: 27 Club (+1)  (Read 15221 times)

remy

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27 Club (+1)
« on: July 23, 2011, 11:44:55 am »

Jose Cruz III

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2011, 12:16:06 pm »
Unga bungaed by the BBGs.

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remy

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2011, 01:32:36 pm »
Waste of raw talent for sure.

Mr. Happy

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2011, 08:11:11 pm »
It still hurts me to lose another drug addict to this disease, because it doesn't have to be. I feel a sense of guilt; why not me? Given I overdosed six times, ending up in the hospital each time, I can't help but wonder why some come back and some don't. Every time something like this happens, and I've lost people I've known to overdoses, i simply have to chalk it up to it just wasn't my time, and someone has a different plan for me.
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chuck

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2011, 11:48:55 pm »
It still hurts me to lose another drug addict to this disease, because it doesn't have to be. I feel a sense of guilt; why not me? Given I overdosed six times, ending up in the hospital each time, I can't help but wonder why some come back and some don't. Every time something like this happens, and I've lost people I've known to overdoses, i simply have to chalk it up to it just wasn't my time, and someone has a different plan for me.

I have no idea why you would feel guilt. Some people own up to the fact that they struggle with a disease and seek (and continue) treatment. Others don't.

As much as I would savor the irony of lecturing you in what you people love to call 'personal responsibility,' I won't. Instead I will celebrate this unbelievable performance and an unbelievable band. This drummer is not fucking around, at all. The singer is pretty good too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlPBfGYA8SE
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Ron Brand

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2011, 12:02:51 am »
Wasn't that the Dap-Kings backing her up? They don't fuck around, and that little girl had a whole lot of talent. Damn shame.
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chuck

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2011, 12:07:53 am »
Wasn't that the Dap-Kings backing her up? They don't fuck around, and that little girl had a whole lot of talent. Damn shame.

The Dap-Kings recorded Back to Black but I don't think they toured with her subsequently.
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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2011, 12:14:29 am »
I have no idea why you would feel guilt. Some people own up to the fact that they struggle with a disease and seek (and continue) treatment. Others don't.

As much as I would savor the irony of lecturing you in what you people love to call 'personal responsibility,' I won't. Instead I will celebrate this unbelievable performance and an unbelievable band. This drummer is not fucking around, at all. The singer is pretty good too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlPBfGYA8SE

A very close friend of mine killed himself a little over a year ago (it wasn't drug related). He used to come over to my house in SF and hang out with my daughter and take my dog out for long walks, and was generally the type of friend you could always count on to be down to do something with you no matter what or when it was. Four months before his suicide he and I and a couple of other friends had the best Thanksgiving I've ever had and may ever have. A few weeks before his suicide he came to my special ed class and showed the kids how to design and screen print T-shirts... Try as we might to find some order or reason for what happens in these situations, there is no reason and as Paul said sometimes we get lucky and the person survives.

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2011, 08:03:52 am »
I have no idea why you would feel guilt. Some people own up to the fact that they struggle with a disease and seek (and continue) treatment. Others don't.

As much as I would savor the irony of lecturing you in what you people love to call 'personal responsibility,' I won't. Instead I will celebrate this unbelievable performance and an unbelievable band. This drummer is not fucking around, at all. The singer is pretty good too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlPBfGYA8SE

Chuck, please. my daughter is one of the folks you so casually denigrate as "you people," and, Praise God, she admitted her addiction and embraced rehabilitation. she has been clean and sober for more than a year and is learning some of the terrible lessons her addiction and related behavior caused her to face. today is her birthday (29), and i pray that today is the first birthday of the woman that she was meant to be and once was. she will be coming home soon from her time away from us, and i am very thankful for her personal day of reckoning. it saved her life and, i hope, changed her forever.


« Last Edit: July 24, 2011, 12:06:15 pm by JimR »
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Col. Sphinx Drummond

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2011, 08:33:21 am »
Amy had a wonderful voice but I think it was her phasing that set her apart from equally gifted singers. Another thing that set her apart was how she seemed conflicted and filled with inner turmoil--and how that manifested itself in her songwriting and partying. I never had any real musical talent but always dreamed about possessing that kind of gift, that's why a part of me is always disturbed to see such talent squandered.

A lot of people drink too much and do drugs more than they should and still don't become addicts. Addiction is not a choice, it's a sickness, there is no plan to sabotage one's career by seeing how out of control one can become. It's much deeper and personal. If you combine an addictive personality with unreasonable self-loathing, you have a powerful combination that has nothing to do with career choice as much as it has to do with a chemical imbalance or mental illness. I think it's obvious her pain and problems went deep within. It's a shame she couldn't get right.
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remy

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2011, 08:54:18 am »
A lot of people drink too much and do drugs more than they should and still don't become addicts. Addiction is not a choice, it's a sickness, there is no plan to sabotage one's career by seeing how out of control one can become. It's much deeper and personal. If you combine an addictive personality with unreasonable self-loathing, you have a powerful combination that has nothing to do with career choice as much as it has to do with a chemical imbalance or mental illness. I think it's obvious her pain and problems went deep within. It's a shame she couldn't get right.

Perfectly stated, imo.

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2011, 09:52:39 am »
I have no idea why you would feel guilt. Some people own up to the fact that they struggle with a disease and seek (and continue) treatment. Others don't.

As much as I would savor the irony of lecturing you in what you people love to call 'personal responsibility,' I won't. Instead I will celebrate this unbelievable performance and an unbelievable band. This drummer is not fucking around, at all. The singer is pretty good too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlPBfGYA8SE

Guilt may have been the wrong word. Maybe wonder would have been more accurate in retrospect, but I was just in the moment. And I would have enjoyed the lecture. Thanks for the link.
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Ty in Tampa

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2011, 11:10:33 am »
I probably shouldn't say anything but I think chuck's "you people" was referring to Happy's conservative nature rather than his addictive personality.
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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2011, 11:51:43 am »
I probably shouldn't say anything but I think chuck's "you people" was referring to Happy's conservative nature rather than his addictive personality.

That's the way I took it.
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hostros7

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2011, 11:55:58 am »
Addiction, WTF?

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2011, 12:07:05 pm »
I probably shouldn't say anything but I think chuck's "you people" was referring to Happy's conservative nature rather than his addictive personality.

perhaps, and i hope so. i like chuck.

if i am too sensitive on this issue, please forgive me. my daughter would have wound up dead. i am very thankful.
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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2011, 12:41:59 pm »
perhaps, and i hope so. i like chuck.

if i am too sensitive on this issue, please forgive me. my daughter would have wound up dead. i am very thankful.

You are definitely not too sensitive on this issue in my opinion. many addicts start out believing that they're not hurting anyone but themselves if they use. I thought that way for years. It just isn't true. Many people are hurt by addiction, most notably those who love us most.
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chuck

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2011, 02:24:55 pm »
perhaps, and i hope so. i like chuck.

if i am too sensitive on this issue, please forgive me. my daughter would have wound up dead. i am very thankful.

Ty is absolutely correct. I was having a little fun with Hap in discussing a very grave subject. I'm sorry to have been unclear.

Addiction is no joke. I have several very close friends who thank goodness have managed to emerge from the depths of various addictions and remain sober. They, too, surely would have died. I have seen first hand the tremendous amount of work and commitment that it's taken on their part to get their lives turned around and I have tremendous respect for anyone who is brave enough to take that path.

Jim, I'm enthralled to hear about your daughter, thanks for letting us know.
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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2011, 03:30:16 pm »
Ty is absolutely correct. I was having a little fun with Hap in discussing a very grave subject. I'm sorry to have been unclear.

Addiction is no joke. I have several very close friends who thank goodness have managed to emerge from the depths of various addictions and remain sober. They, too, surely would have died. I have seen first hand the tremendous amount of work and commitment that it's taken on their part to get their lives turned around and I have tremendous respect for anyone who is brave enough to take that path.

Jim, I'm enthralled to hear about your daughter, thanks for letting us know.

I too am thrilled to hear of your daughter's accomplishment, Coach. I wish that I knew her so that I could congratulate her myself. That first year is a real bitch. It is huge! Hell, for me, for years, it was hard to get 60 days in a row. And, Chuck, I knew what you meant and was not offended at all.
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94CougarGrad

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2011, 03:33:22 pm »
Coach, glad to hear your daughter's doing better. Hope she stays on the healthy track.

Happy, I don't know how your luck or plan or whatever it is ended up putting you where you are, but we're glad you're around.

Amy Winehouse's story has been tragic for some time. I'm not surprised to hear that she died, but I am sorry. She was somebody's little girl.

One of my sisters has mercifully kicked her drug habit and has been clean for 5 years. Heroin, oxycontin, and other stuff messed her up at a young age. It took a drug bust of a speedball ring- she was a customer-when she was 19 to wake her up.

The baby sister hasn't woken up yet. She OD'ed 4 or 5 months ago and mercifully was revived. There's so much more I could write abou her problems, but I'll just say that I hope something happens soon to make her wake up.
And, by the way, f*** off. --Mr. Happy, with a tip of the cap to JimR
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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2011, 03:37:39 pm »
Coach, glad to hear your daughter's doing better. Hope she stays on the healthy track.

Happy, I don't know how your luck or plan or whatever it is ended up putting you where you are, but we're glad you're around.

Amy Winehouse's story has been tragic for some time. I'm not surprised to hear that she died, but I am sorry. She was somebody's little girl.

One of my sisters has mercifully kicked her drug habit and has been clean for 5 years. Heroin, oxycontin, and other stuff messed her up at a young age. It took a drug bust of a speedball ring- she was a customer-when she was 19 to wake her up.

The baby sister hasn't woken up yet. She OD'ed 4 or 5 months ago and mercifully was revived. There's so much more I could write abou her problems, but I'll just say that I hope something happens soon to make her wake up.

Thank you! You never know what will wake up an addict. For me, it was a week in jail. For your sister, maybe it'll be Amy Winehouse's death. I'll pray that she can understand that she has a choice not to use and that she gets it soon.
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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2011, 04:31:44 pm »
Elizabeth's addiction bought her more problems than just rehab. a judge gave her a break, and we hope she is going to make the most of it. the criminal justice system saved her life, and in-patient rehab chaged her life.
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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2011, 04:38:19 pm »
Elizabeth's addiction bought her more problems than just rehab. a judge gave her a break, and we hope she is going to make the most of it. the criminal justice system saved her life, and in-patient rehab chaged her life.

Same for me, Coach. I'm forever grateful to the St. Tammany Parish Sheriff's Department for arresting my high ass and grateful to the judge for forcing me back to rehab for the fourth time. I'm grateful to God for allowing me to get it that time.
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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2011, 08:40:34 pm »
A lot of people drink too much and do drugs more than they should and still don't become addicts. Addiction is not a choice, it's a sickness, there is no plan to sabotage one's career by seeing how out of control one can become. It's much deeper and personal. If you combine an addictive personality with unreasonable self-loathing, you have a powerful combination that has nothing to do with career choice as much as it has to do with a chemical imbalance or mental illness. I think it's obvious her pain and problems went deep within. It's a shame she couldn't get right.

I would add to this that a popular musician generally has a lot more unsupervised free time on their hands than most people do on their jobs or in their lives; and from what I know, unsupervised free time can be one of an addict's worst enemies.  Not to mention, in popular music, excessive behavior is often expected and in some cases even subtly encouraged.  It is surprising to me this doesn't come up more often than it does.

If I had to bet on it, I would guess the 27-year-old thing is selective statistics.  Did no famous artist die tragically at 26?  Or 28?

*****************

Jim, great news.  I know it is not nearly a done deal and your daughter has a ways to go, but some of your previous posts on this subject seemed so negative and hopeless that this good news comes as a happy surprise.  Bless her, and you, and your family.  And good luck.

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2011, 08:44:10 pm »

If I had to bet on it, I would guess the 27-year-old thing is selective statistics.  Did no famous artist die tragically at 26?  Or 28?

Didn't Heath Ledger die of an overdose at 28?
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remy

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2011, 08:45:07 pm »
Didn't Heath Ledger die of an overdose at 28?

Born, Heath Andrew Ledger 4 April 1979(1979-04-04) Perth, Australia. Died, 22 January 2008(2008-01-22) (aged 28)

Which reminds me, I'm due for an avatar change one of these days.

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2011, 09:10:01 pm »
Elizabeth's addiction bought her more problems than just rehab. a judge gave her a break, and we hope she is going to make the most of it. the criminal justice system saved her life, and in-patient rehab chaged her life.

Sounds almost exactly like the sister of mine who's been clean for 5 years now. There is hope, Coach.
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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2011, 09:14:50 pm »
You are definitely not too sensitive on this issue in my opinion. many addicts start out believing that they're not hurting anyone but themselves if they use. I thought that way for years. It just isn't true. Many people are hurt by addiction, most notably those who love us most.

When I was a kid in school, there were always some kids who were deemed weird or anti-social or maladjusted or whatever.  Or sometimes you knew a kid who was basically "normal" for years, and then for no apparent reason, when they got to junior high or high school, they would go right off the rails.

I didn't really wonder why - I don't think I really thought about it much at all.  It was later, as an older kid or adult, that I would occasionally reconnect with one of the 'weird' kids, and it turned out so many of them had a fucked up home life they'd had to deal with, usually to do with a something-aholic or mentally ill parent.  The ancillary damage from having that kind of thing at home affects every child in that situation, and many are affected profoundly.  There is not a better reason to rehabilitate oneself than that, I would think; though I understand to someone far gone into addiction or mental illness, nothing external is a good reason to stop or change anything.

I used to tell my kids over and over to cut the misfits some slack, those kids may not have been as lucky with what kind of parents they had, etc.  I think it had some effect, maybe they were a little more tolerant than if they'd just gone along with the crowd.  But I know they won't really understand until they are older and have a little more perspective.

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2011, 09:34:14 pm »
I would add to this that a popular musician generally has a lot more unsupervised free time on their hands than most people do on their jobs or in their lives; and from what I know, unsupervised free time can be one of an addict's worst enemies.  Not to mention, in popular music, excessive behavior is often expected and in some cases even subtly encouraged.  It is surprising to me this doesn't come up more often than it does.

If I had to bet on it, I would guess the 27-year-old thing is selective statistics.  Did no famous artist die tragically at 26?  Or 28?

*****************

Jim, great news.  I know it is not nearly a done deal and your daughter has a ways to go, but some of your previous posts on this subject seemed so negative and hopeless that this good news comes as a happy surprise.  Bless her, and you, and your family.  And good luck.

i have never been negative about her potential or hopeless about what her future could be, bit i wondered if she was ever going to realize where she was heading. i think she does now, but as with all addicts, it is one day at a time.
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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2011, 07:53:16 am »
If I had to bet on it, I would guess the 27-year-old thing is selective statistics.  Did no famous artist die tragically at 26?  Or 28?

Otis Redding and Gram Parsons both died at 26.  Hank Williams and Ronnie Van Zant at 29. 
The rules of distinction were thrown out with the baseball cap.  It does not lend itself to protocol.  It is found today on youth in homes, classrooms, even in fine restaurants.  Regardless of its other consequences, this is a breach against civility.  A civilized man should avoid this mania.

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2011, 08:28:37 am »
"If I had to bet on it, I would guess the 27-year-old thing is selective statistics.  Did no famous artist die tragically at 26?  Or 28?"

Its in the category of pointless generalities like "famous people die in threes." However, in the case of the self-destructive artist type, you do have to be old enough to have done something despite your various pathologies, but not old enough to figure out how to deal with them. I think the combined sum of those likelihood curves peaks around 27.

Wikipedia has convenient list of drug related deaths that you can use to make some nice plots, if you have nothing better to do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_drug-related_deaths

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« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2011, 08:43:40 am »
Quote
The ancillary damage from having that kind of thing at home affects every child in that situation, and many are affected profoundly.  There is not a better reason to rehabilitate oneself than that, I would think; though I understand to someone far gone into addiction or mental illness, nothing external is a good reason to stop or change anything.

If you believe alcoholism or drug addiction, is an inherited trait as many people do these days, then its likely that at least one of the parents have drug/alcohol problems as well.

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« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2011, 09:26:35 am »
If you believe alcoholism or drug addiction, is an inherited trait as many people do these days, then its likely that at least one of the parents have drug/alcohol problems as well.

Predisposition to addictions is a genetic trait.  This isn't a belief, it's settled science.  The predisposition however does not mean that an addiction is inevitable.
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« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2011, 09:27:28 am »
Which reminds me, I'm due for an avatar change one of these days.

Just wait for the official shots of Anne Hathaway as Catwoman.
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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2011, 01:30:05 pm »
Just wait for the official shots of Anne Hathaway as Catwoman.

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« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2011, 12:08:25 pm »
"My hammy is a little tight. I wish I was like Ausmus. He's Jewish and isn't allowed to have a pulled hamstring."

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Re: 27 Club (+1)
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2011, 10:57:17 am »
"No illegal substances" in Amy Winehouse's system.  Some alcohol, but it's not stated if this contributed to her death.

Curious.
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« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2011, 11:08:10 am »
"No illegal substances" in Amy Winehouse's system.  Some alcohol, but it's not stated if this contributed to her death.

Curious.

I thought the consensus (after the kneejerk RELAPSE! response) was that she went cold turkey when she shouldn't have?
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« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2011, 11:13:20 am »
I thought the consensus (after the kneejerk RELAPSE! response) was that she went cold turkey when she shouldn't have?
that's what her parents thought.  quit too quickly for an already weak heart
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« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2011, 11:24:32 am »
that's what her parents thought.  quit too quickly for an already weak heart

If she was on Xanax or any other benzo as has been alleged, speaking from personal experience, you have to taper off those or risk a stroke or seizure. You simply can't go cold turkey on those.
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« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2011, 12:44:41 pm »
"No illegal substances" in Amy Winehouse's system.  Some alcohol, but it's not stated if this contributed to her death.

Curious.

There were no "illegal substances" in Elvis's or Anna Nicole's systems either.  Just lots and lots and lots of legal shit for a very long time.  Drugs can fuck you up.
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« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2011, 08:00:15 am »
Amy Winehouse died from "excess detox", claims her father.

Quote from: The Guardian
Although he insists his daughter quit hard drugs in December 2008, alcohol was still a problem. "The periods of abstinence were becoming longer, and the periods of drinking were becoming shorter," he said. "It was heading in the right direction." Withdrawal caused seizures, Mitch said, and he believes one of these seizures killed her on 23 July. "There was nobody there to rescue her."
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